"Sometimes there are skulls around him" We know that Bloodraven is surrounded by bones and skulls. Maybe Mel saw that once as she glimpsed into the fire and looking at Patchface, she is reminded of that image
OK but the most terrifying part of this is that it suggests not just a three-eyed crow and blood raven as separate entities (that's not a new thought) BUT that FUTURE BRAN would be the three-eyed crow and is using his abilities for some reason to trash past greenseers and screw with them for some reason which would make him the real third act villain.
well we dont have to worry about that cause all "time travelling bran theorys" are the result of the fans whose imagination is so awful they write fan fiction
@@leeroberts4850 Pretty sure GRRM just confirmed the Hodor reveal as planned in the books so...time travelling is confirmed. Is ASoIaF bad fanfiction then?
The show did a terrible job of conflating blood raven and the three eyed crow, that so many fans refer to him as the three eyed raven. Bran is unknowingly on a dangerous path
Bran is 100% the three eyed crow. The name Bran means crow in Welsh, and Bran’s awakening of his third eye is a major plot point. Bran is literally a crow with three eyes. A three eyed raven
Twiching and trembling is something that sweet Robin suffers all the time as well, another broken boy. "Robert is afflicted with a disease that causes frequent seizures. Maester Colemon bleeds him with leeches and administers dreamwine and milk of the poppy to help Robert sleep" "Sweetmilk helps Robert with shaking, but Colemon is cautious because continuous use of sweetsleep has an increasing level of toxicity"
Sweetmilk sounds like an opium reference So he probably has some sort of neurological issue It is possible though that is is alluding to some other sort of other condition of his though
@@vanessaamesty6739isn’t it implied that the reason Robyn isn’t getting better is because the maester keeps upping his sweetwine dosage at Littlefinger’s behest despite knowing it could be dangerous
Could a greenseer have turned Areys mad? He had a near death experience at Duskendale, and he was forever changed afterward. Maybe a greenseer (Bran? Someone else?) Tried to show Areys the future and how to stop the white walkers. Hence the paranoia and the "burn them all!" alluding to burning the dead. What if the greenseer showed him his family's future? That's why he was afraid of being killed. He saw Jamie stab him in the back, so he wanted to keep him close. That's why he turned to run. The "dream" was coming true. He saw the successful rebellion which was why he was afraid of traitors, and why he turned on Tywin. Why he was afraid for Visarys' life. He saw him killed. Why he was paranoid of Rhaegar's intentions. He saw the coup. What if it was a newly trained greenseer that tried, but failed. Targaryens are notorious for misinterpreting prophetic dreams. Thoughts?
About Bloodraven seeing Melissadre through the flames/vision... in the house of the undying Dany see Rhaegar and Elia in a vision and he seem to look back at her... do you think that’s an indication of Rheagar as a dreamer/green-seer? That would certainly explain not only his melancholy but his actions towards prophecy fulfillment.
I'm just throwing this out there before I even think it through. But that makes me think of Rhaegar and his kingsgard so strongly making contact with Jamie in his dream where he fell asleep on the weirwood stump on his way to Harranhal.
@@JacksonWalker96 After Jamie leaves Harranhal when Roose Bolton let's him return to Kings Landing, under his protection, and he wants him to tell Lord Tywin of his kindness. But he keeps Brienne for the men's entertainment. Jamie gets dream wine from Qyburn that night, and he had his fever dream. He descends into the "underworld" (which he thinks is Casterly Rock). It not only features the Kingsgaurd and Rhaegar, but Tywin, Cersei, and Joffrey (this is why I think Cersei is going to die by his hand), and a whole host of Lannisters. Also a bunch of "watchers" on the walls. But most importantly, it features Briene, who fights off the shades that come for him when his lit sword goes out. He wakes up, and goes back for her and rescues her from Vargo Hoat and the bear pit.
Some Valyrians seem to have prophetic abilities. I think it comes from a similar source but is ultimately different from being a greenseer. However, I do think greenseers, Valyrian prophets, priests of Rhollor and others who can see through time are accessing the same plane of existence so to speak. That's why Bloodraven can see Melisandre through her flames. It stands to reason Rhaegar might be able to literally see Dany, or at least sense her presence when she had that vision.
Moqorro said the Drowned God was a demon that served the Great Other, and Patchface on a few occasions displays knowledge of them he shouldn't have, such as their attack on Hardhome. Perhaps both Bloodraven and the Drowned God, whatever he is, both took an interest in Patchface? Maybe Bloodraven reached out to him when he was dying, tried to awaken his power and save him so as to create another greenseer, but Patchface failed the test, and like the other fallen dreamers, he died. But the Drowned God managed to save him, resurrect him. And so Patchface is a fallen dreamer who still lives. Potentially an entirely unique being. As for Euron, I believe Bloodraven managed to awaken Euron's power, but failed to lure him north of the Wall, so abandoned him for a more suitable candidate, and so Euron was unable to control his power and may have discovered other powers on his own which Bloodraven did not intend. Powers that hide in the darkness of the Long Night.
Think of the horror that was Varamyr and the power he had. Now imagine how much worse Euron has the potential to be than Varamyr. Now imagine how much worse Bloodraven can be than the crow's eye. Then imagine how much worse a potential night King figure could be than 3 eyed crow.
(This is a long one but I think it's really interesting) I have a theory. I think Bloodraven sorts greenseers into two categories. Firstly, ones like Jojen, who are not powerful enough to challenge him, and are useless in terms of a body snatch because they could not hold the consciousness of the weirwoods. Then, there's the second type, with examples of Bran, Euron, Patchface and maybe Rickon. These greenseers have the power in their blood to be of similar strength to Bloodraven, but if they exist around the same time, he only needs one to body snatch. So what to do with the others? I think Bloodraven fears rival greenseers, or wants to hoard the power. He seems to have been possessed by the weirwood consciousness, a vessel for the deceased Children of the Forest. They would not want powerful human greenseers running around if they can't control them. So what's the solution? Break them, then possess them. I think the process involves skinchanging into them, forcing them to die, but holding the connection, using it to somehow strengthen the body. Another theory I have is wights are reanimated by a powerful form of skinchanging, and if that's true it stands to reason a greenseer could keep someone alive even when they ought to be dead from their recent wounds. However, I think this breaks their mind if they fail to fly in the dream. And once broken, they can be skinchanged easily, to be used as tools of Bloodraven from afar. I think this is what happened to Patchface. Also, I think Bloodraven tried to do this to Euron. Balon's story about the storm in the Jade Sea is too specific, so GRRM probably put it in when he knew D&D intended to show Euron killing Balon. I think Bloodraven foresaw Euron as a massive threat, and tried to skinchange him, in an attempt to force him to jump overboard. Either Euron would die and the threat was removed, or Bloodraven could make him a greenseer slave. But Euron's crew tied him to the mast, keeping him fully alive, allowing Euron to maintain enough willpower to fight off Bloodraven. Bloodraven has not tried again because Euron has strengthened his powers by drinking Shade of the Evening, which functions similarly to Weirwood Paste. This also makes me consider one more thing. Do storms enhance greenseer powers? Or perhaps give them a stronger connection to a place, as if there was a weirwood there? Or perhaps a greenseer can somehow summon a storm. It seems a little too coincidental that Bloodraven attacked both Patchface and Euron during a storm. Wait I just remembered something. The Children of the Forest can create massive storms and floods, that's how they broke the Arm of Dorne and created the Neck. So perhaps Bloodraven and the Children literally summoned these storms! This would also make sense for the Others. Perhaps the snowstorms they create strengthen their hold over their wights somehow.
Sounds like the Boot story. Your best pair is for church, your worst pair is for the dirtiest of work, but your 2nd best pair is the one you take the best care of, because they are the boots you will most likely be wearing. Bloodraven has the best boots, which are his low tier or no tier magical spies, used for a small amount of time and requiring very little maintenance, his worst boots, which are the base greenseers he uses out on his most dirty muck scraping, not caring if they get wrecked further, and his chosen greenseers, that he gets the best milage and return on investment when he puts in the effort to train them.
Good to have you back again after 6 months gone and with such an interesting and alluring theory to boot! Really makes one wonder what role Patchface is going to play in the story moving forward
Finally something fresh, nonrepetitive, and providing an explanation for Patchface's role in the universum, an explanation that actually makes sense. Delightful!
"Under the sea, the birds have scales for feathers..." Dragons, my dude. No? Also, do we know for sure Patchy's "under the sea" means "in my dreams"? Deciphering the meaning of the phrase "under the sea" is so central to understanding the context of his prophecies that I'm gonna need something that pins JUST the meaning of that phrase down and evaluates it before trying to follow anything that comes after. I think people get hung up on the individual prophecies themselves, when the key for this cipher is the framing of his musings - the meaning of "under the sea".
Addendum: I'm afraid you lost some credibility when you started mixing book and show. No matter the theory, it goes together like oil and water. Additionally, just because Mel is weary of Patchface and Bloodraven both means little, ultimately - correlation does not equal causation. She's hardly the only person unnerved by ole' Patchy and the allusion to the Lonmouth symbolism has me thinking this vision has another purpose entirely - while Mel would be unnerved by ANYONE that could see through her visions, which are usually a one-way-only deal.
Great video. I would comment that throwing Catlyn into the river AFTER she died is different than dying from drowning. Suffocation (drowning) can cause brain damage, explaining Patchface’s memory loss, but having your throat cut and then tossed in the river probably wouldn’t have that effect in this fantasy world.
Grrm ALWAYS hides answers to mysteries in otherwise unrelated chapters. That's Grrm 101. You obviously understand this already! I'm quickly becoming a big fan of your work and the way you think. Keep it up!
Blood raven is not the 3 eye crow! It makes no sense for blood raven to visit him as a tree and 3 eye crow in the same dream! The 3 eye crow is the great other or in service to him. I enjoyed ur video. I look forward to watching more
I think the “under the sea you fall up” is saying that everything that goes on on land has an equivalent below the waters. They probably have a different form than a crow
as someone who almost drowned and had to be dragged out of the stormy waves I can say that it wasn't traumatic. I just fell asleep and lost memory between when I fell asleep and woke up on shore.
Death is fun. I once almost froze to death as a child, similar experience where you just blank out... and then you're back, biggest wtf moment of my life.
Patchface drowned in a mass drowning event with the baratheon & his men , & there's speculation around greyjoy building up to a mass sacrifice of his men for the drowned god (maybe via the bloodravens eye, mass warging into getting them to die simultaneously once the patch is taken off). Maybe the mass drowning with patches was a previous attempt by bloodraven somehow The drowned god might just be a humongous dormant dragon on the sea bed, an unbelievable size never seen before. awakened by a strong enough scent of blood , which bloodraven wishes to warg into Great vid btw really intriguing . "Under the sea" link with being a dreamer fits well. Interesting connections to bloodraven 5:00 considering hes talking to Jon i think the crows are the nights watch , (he's seeing the others take over the nights watch, the crows become wight) , but talking about bloodraven fits
This is a really good theory. A lot of people think Patchface changed because of the Drowned God. I'm dont like that theory, but didnt have another explanation.
Nah, man. It's just that everything patchface says goes on under the sea is the opposite of real life but also true. Falling up is floating to the surface, the birds having scales for feathers is fish swiming in the "sky", the crows being white is just white fish.
I think there is a sort of parallel world that contains the gods and beings of magical powers When you die, you somewhat come in to contact with that other realm if they didn't already contact you before For whatever reason, these supernatural beings fight amongst each other indirectly through the people of the world There is some heavy overlap with Lovecraftian themes that I think fit with George's fondness of sci fi and horror
Maybe Patchface was warged by Euron Greyjoy and later down the line warged Euron Greyjoy, himself. It almost feels like it's a battle between wargs, between the dreamers of the drowned. What if they switched bodies?
Wait...Davos DID have visions of the gods speaking to him, particularly the Mother if memory holds. Most likely just a case of exposure while stranded on that rock, but shouldnt be just brushed off.
Excellent. I’ve been looking for a video for the last two days for someone to explain what the hell is up with patch face. But this video didn’t come up when I was searching for it. It came up in recommended later.
It's seems like the comparisons are off a bit. Patchface seemed to have been brought back in a very different way than Catelyn. Catelyn came back by fire, and as we learned from Beric, he does lose memories. Also, Bloodraven should have known what Bran was talking about, he didn't. Bloodraven would have had similar experience earlier in his life and would have saw his own version of the Crow. And his comparison to Jojen is a bit off too, whoever the three eyes crow is, they were causing and guiding Brans dreams, Jojen was just an observer and no power over the dreams.
Great video. I like the idea of Brynden having all these failed acolytes. Otherwise you have to say Bran is his first acolyte. Which brings up questions like why now? why Bran if other people have similar powers? I think the “position” of the Three Eyed Crow will be a sort of job someone must do, maybe to hold back the Long Night or some other disaster. It seems Blood Raven is dying and needs someone to fill this position. It could be the the Others are gaining power as Blood Raven’s power is diminishing. Also, it makes sense to say Euron is a failed acolyte as well. He has an expansive knowledge of magic. Possibly more than anyone else in the world. If he trained as a potential successor it would make sense that he has this knowledge since he’d be privy to the more “spiritual” workings of the world. I think he probably failed as an acolyte, or maybe was rejected because he is pure evil, and now wants to forcibly take the power denied to him by Brynden.
This video gave me an idea for the possibility of a sea dragon, or at least, a dead dragon brought back to life from under the sea. Didnt one of the Targaeryan dragons die and fall into the water near dragon stone?
Reminds me of a few somethings I heard a while ago. The children of the forest used a magic horn to move the land or something. Some theorize the land splitting was due to the root structure of the weirwoods being enormous and moving the land itself at the call of the horn. I wonder if the weirwood roots extend to the bottom of the sea, and could also rescue people underwater. Save their consciousness somewhere else, let the water keep their body cold and preserved, and then slap their brains back in later. Reminds me of how many theorize how Jon Snow will return.
Without disproving Patchface potential plague resurgence, here is another theory which I think is more in line with Daenerys. In ADWD, Quaithe visits Daenerys at Mereen through a dragonglass candle and gives here the following warning : "Quaithe: The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal." Note that there is no Capital O to Others, which makes me think it's not necessarily the Others at the wall but rather... the following warnings in the list. Soon comes the pale mare (the plague), and after here the [...] Kraken (VIctarion Greyjoy), Dark Flame (BlackFyre either as Varys hypothetical ascend or the Golden Company members which have a history closely tied to the BlackFyre rebellion), Lion (Tyrion Lannister), Griffin (Griff / Young Griff who travel with him), the Sun's son (Quentyn Martell) and the Mummer's dragon (fake Aegon VI). The perfumed Senechal could be either Loraq, or Varys (always described as perfurmed in ASOIAF) or much more likely Selaesori Qhoran, the "Fragrant Steward" merchant cog which carries Tyrion and Jorah as well as the red priest Moqorro and is shipwrecked. Besides, the remaning prophecy all speaks about people on the way to Mereen... including Jorah Mormont, which is enrolled with Tyrion in a mummer's show... might there be a dragon in here ?
I watched another video from ASolaF that suggested the Deep Ones and the Drowned God were created by the Children. If that were to be the case it’s an interesting additional connection here. Patchface, a potential green seer with connections to Blood Raven…connected to the Drowned God that has ties to the Children.
BR could just be warging patchface the same way bran does with hodor, also patchface and hodor are very similar in the sense that they seem like simple man with a simple mind, BR could've been using patchface to watch over places where there was no weirdwood trees such as Dragonstone
Pre-drowned Patchface is like Missandei on 'roids. So many assets 🎭 As to the birds having scales under the sea, Leaf tells Bran that there is a vast sea below the caves, if you travel far enough down, so it *could* be speaking of these blind, white fish 🐟🤔
Blood Raven is not the Three Eyed Crow. You should re-read when Bran first meets Blood Raven in the cave, he asked are you the Thee Eyed Crow and Blood Raven had no idea what Bran was talking about. Like old Nan he says I knew a crow once. The two of them even compete for Bran’s attention in later green dreams. The Crow must be either the Great Other or his servant. He could even be the Knight’s King, a crow from the wall (not to be confused with the Night King which was tv garbage). I believe Blood Raven is a good guy who was trapped by the children just like they are trying to trap Bran for his power, but Blood Raven can’t be straight forward because they are surrounded by the enemy. And that might even be the reason he doesn’t say directly that he is not the Three Eyed Crow. Regardless, it is much more complex than what most readers think and it is a huge mistake to think that the two are one. Thanks for reading if you made it this far lol! But I do agree that the Crow visited Patchface among others (Little Finger, Euron Greyjoy, Davos and maybe more). “The Crow is a tricksy bird.” ;)
Yes, I do not consider it a certainty that Bloodraven is the three-eyed crow, but for the sake of the video I just had to keep it simple. Thanks for the insight :)
I think a very illuminating dialogue happens in one scene in particular in ACoK, when a white raven (iirc) arrives at Dragonstone and does the usual talking while in the presence of Patchface. It plays out thusly; *The child's mouth gaped open. "It talks!"* *"A few words. As I said, they are clever, these birds."* *"Clever bird, clever man, clever clever fool," said Patchface, jangling. "Oh, clever clever clever fool."* *He began to sing. "The shadows come to dance, my lord, dance my lord, dance my lord," he sang, hopping from one foot to the other and back again. "The shadows come to stay, my lord, stay my lord, stay my lord." He jerked his head with each word, the bells in his antlers sending up a clangor.* *The white raven screamed and went flapping away to perch on the iron railing of the rookery stairs. Shireen seemed to grow smaller. "He sings that all the time. I told him to stop but he won't. It makes me scared. Make him stop."* *And how do I do that? the old man wondered. Once I might have silenced him forever, but now . . .* *"The shadows come to dance, my lord, dance my lord, dance my lord," the fool sang on, swinging his head and making his bells clang and clatter. Bong dong, ring-a-ling, bong dong.* *"Lord," the white raven shrieked. "Lord, lord, lord." * *"A fool sings what he will," the maester told his anxious princess. "You must not take his words to heart. On the morrow he may remember another song, and this one will never be heard again." He can sing prettily in four tongues, Lord Steffon had written . . .* "Clever bird, clever man, clever fool" - the obvious meaning of this Patchfaceism in context of the prologue is that for all the Maester knows about clever birds, he's a fool. We see why this is the case at the end of the prologue but I believe another level of meaning is at play. The raven says two words - it says and repeats the word "Lady" when Cressen introduces it to Shireen and after Patchface does his creepy little song the raven is said to have "shrieked" the word lord. Lord lord lord. What does it mean? Well, I believe that Patchy isn't just talking about Cressen here - I think he's able to see - somehow - ole' one-eye himself inside this bird. I think he's narc-ing off to Bloodraven that Melisandre - or at least that the shadow of the red god - has come to Dragonstone. Whether he's doing that as a servant of Bloodraven (he does say "lord" in his little mantra - though the raven repeats this, almost incredulously - almost insulted) or as a different representative of a different force or actor simply exchanging information that is mutually beneficial (I lean in this direction) is hard to decipher.
I find it difficult to take elements from the tv show (Hodor) to discuss elements from the book (Patchface). As of now for all I know we cannot say with certainty for Hodors arc to go down the same way within the books as in the tv show.
Bran lied about not remembering what happened when he fell. He says it a few times how the queen’s brother scares him so bad he couldnt tell anyone, not even maester luwin or jojen what happened
20:30 Melisandre, is an old woman scared of her own shadow. You forget ,that Blood-raven was a mage in his own right, before the singers got hold of him. Fire mage by birth, shadow-binder perhaps, warg certainly, Before he went past the wall.Of course Melisandre fears him. He's not alone ,unlike her, and has a pool of magic to draw from, that is nigh inexhaustible. 20:38 DUH! she sees her fate if she fails , of course she's scared. You think Blood-raven wont break her mind and use her body if he can? You really think he's content to be absorbed by the trees and go down in the roots? HA! The singers tricked and trapped him. He has ben looking for a way out since day one. Bran is not his successor, he is just one more pawn. He 'll link him with trees, teach him enough to wet his curiosity, then break him as he did to patch face. He wants a conduit with the weirwood network, but the conduit cannot be his own body. If he returns to his own flesh, they may not let him go again. Warging into Bran though.. the greenseers have no hold on him. Wanna bet he has a mage born body stashed someplace , just waiting for him to inhabit it? He kills his old body, flees to a new one , or is summoned to a new one at a prearranged time, Leaving a broken mindless Bran behind as a link to the weirwood trees. You think the body the trees absorb, is the one he was born with? HA!
Love the video! I felt I had to be annoying and say in the show blood raven was the 3 eyed crow. In the book blood raven is not the 3 eyed crow! First off his name is blood RAVEN! You touched on blood raven not knowing what Brân was talking about when he was about. I believe the 3 eye crow is an instrument of the great other. I think bloodraven controls the ravens with Coldhands. In my mind that just makes sense. If you look up crows and ravens. You will find that they are totally different birds. In the books no one likes the crows or really speaks of them. The crows seem like dicks. Ravens are a form of communication. Ravens help Sam and Gilly. Of course I do not know for sure. I did enjoy the video! And I am not gonna be mean and call you names. So please treat me the same. If you decide to reply. It matters how we treat each other. Sending you love. I look forward to your next video!
one minute before the end and you drop a bookspoiler from mister Martin himself. Yeah that's a big shame. I liked the video but i don't wanna be spoiled.
You’re reaching mate, I can see you wanting to cobble all of these things together and make a connection, but a song of ice and fire is not that kind of story. Yes, a great many things are connected but not everything is connected. Whatever is happening to patch face, it’s not this.
Theory on the Drowned God: ua-cam.com/video/TQl16mRvq6E/v-deo.html
"Sometimes there are skulls around him"
We know that Bloodraven is surrounded by bones and skulls. Maybe Mel saw that once as she glimpsed into the fire and looking at Patchface, she is reminded of that image
OK but the most terrifying part of this is that it suggests not just a three-eyed crow and blood raven as separate entities (that's not a new thought) BUT that FUTURE BRAN would be the three-eyed crow and is using his abilities for some reason to trash past greenseers and screw with them for some reason which would make him the real third act villain.
well we dont have to worry about that cause all "time travelling bran theorys" are the result of the fans whose imagination is so awful they write fan fiction
@@leeroberts4850 Pretty sure GRRM just confirmed the Hodor reveal as planned in the books so...time travelling is confirmed. Is ASoIaF bad fanfiction then?
No
The show did a terrible job of conflating blood raven and the three eyed crow, that so many fans refer to him as the three eyed raven.
Bran is unknowingly on a dangerous path
Bran is 100% the three eyed crow. The name Bran means crow in Welsh, and Bran’s awakening of his third eye is a major plot point. Bran is literally a crow with three eyes. A three eyed raven
You may say
I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one!
**Euron skulks about menacingly**
😂😂😂
Imagine that!
Twiching and trembling is something that sweet Robin suffers all the time as well, another broken boy.
"Robert is afflicted with a disease that causes frequent seizures. Maester Colemon bleeds him with leeches and administers dreamwine and milk of the poppy to help Robert sleep"
"Sweetmilk helps Robert with shaking, but Colemon is cautious because continuous use of sweetsleep has an increasing level of toxicity"
Sweetmilk sounds like an opium reference
So he probably has some sort of neurological issue
It is possible though that is is alluding to some other sort of other condition of his though
@@TheToby121 I think they want to medicate something that is magical and is not working
@@vanessaamesty6739isn’t it implied that the reason Robyn isn’t getting better is because the maester keeps upping his sweetwine dosage at Littlefinger’s behest despite knowing it could be dangerous
Could a greenseer have turned Areys mad? He had a near death experience at Duskendale, and he was forever changed afterward. Maybe a greenseer (Bran? Someone else?) Tried to show Areys the future and how to stop the white walkers. Hence the paranoia and the "burn them all!" alluding to burning the dead.
What if the greenseer showed him his family's future? That's why he was afraid of being killed. He saw Jamie stab him in the back, so he wanted to keep him close. That's why he turned to run. The "dream" was coming true.
He saw the successful rebellion which was why he was afraid of traitors, and why he turned on Tywin.
Why he was afraid for Visarys' life. He saw him killed.
Why he was paranoid of Rhaegar's intentions. He saw the coup.
What if it was a newly trained greenseer that tried, but failed. Targaryens are notorious for misinterpreting prophetic dreams.
Thoughts?
About Bloodraven seeing Melissadre through the flames/vision... in the house of the undying Dany see Rhaegar and Elia in a vision and he seem to look back at her... do you think that’s an indication of Rheagar as a dreamer/green-seer? That would certainly explain not only his melancholy but his actions towards prophecy fulfillment.
I'm just throwing this out there before I even think it through. But that makes me think of Rhaegar and his kingsgard so strongly making contact with Jamie in his dream where he fell asleep on the weirwood stump on his way to Harranhal.
Lisa Walker when is that again?
@@JacksonWalker96 After Jamie leaves Harranhal when Roose Bolton let's him return to Kings Landing, under his protection, and he wants him to tell Lord Tywin of his kindness. But he keeps Brienne for the men's entertainment. Jamie gets dream wine from Qyburn that night, and he had his fever dream. He descends into the "underworld" (which he thinks is Casterly Rock). It not only features the Kingsgaurd and Rhaegar, but Tywin, Cersei, and Joffrey (this is why I think Cersei is going to die by his hand), and a whole host of Lannisters. Also a bunch of "watchers" on the walls. But most importantly, it features Briene, who fights off the shades that come for him when his lit sword goes out. He wakes up, and goes back for her and rescues her from Vargo Hoat and the bear pit.
@@JacksonWalker96 ASOS, Chapter 44
Some Valyrians seem to have prophetic abilities. I think it comes from a similar source but is ultimately different from being a greenseer. However, I do think greenseers, Valyrian prophets, priests of Rhollor and others who can see through time are accessing the same plane of existence so to speak. That's why Bloodraven can see Melisandre through her flames. It stands to reason Rhaegar might be able to literally see Dany, or at least sense her presence when she had that vision.
So great to see another video from you!
Moqorro said the Drowned God was a demon that served the Great Other, and Patchface on a few occasions displays knowledge of them he shouldn't have, such as their attack on Hardhome. Perhaps both Bloodraven and the Drowned God, whatever he is, both took an interest in Patchface? Maybe Bloodraven reached out to him when he was dying, tried to awaken his power and save him so as to create another greenseer, but Patchface failed the test, and like the other fallen dreamers, he died. But the Drowned God managed to save him, resurrect him. And so Patchface is a fallen dreamer who still lives. Potentially an entirely unique being.
As for Euron, I believe Bloodraven managed to awaken Euron's power, but failed to lure him north of the Wall, so abandoned him for a more suitable candidate, and so Euron was unable to control his power and may have discovered other powers on his own which Bloodraven did not intend. Powers that hide in the darkness of the Long Night.
The 3 Eyed Crow is not Bloodraven.
Think of the horror that was Varamyr and the power he had. Now imagine how much worse Euron has the potential to be than Varamyr. Now imagine how much worse Bloodraven can be than the crow's eye. Then imagine how much worse a potential night King figure could be than 3 eyed crow.
yea i thought too that should be included in this video
Patchface is one of my favorite riddles! He has so much potential.
(This is a long one but I think it's really interesting)
I have a theory. I think Bloodraven sorts greenseers into two categories. Firstly, ones like Jojen, who are not powerful enough to challenge him, and are useless in terms of a body snatch because they could not hold the consciousness of the weirwoods. Then, there's the second type, with examples of Bran, Euron, Patchface and maybe Rickon. These greenseers have the power in their blood to be of similar strength to Bloodraven, but if they exist around the same time, he only needs one to body snatch. So what to do with the others? I think Bloodraven fears rival greenseers, or wants to hoard the power. He seems to have been possessed by the weirwood consciousness, a vessel for the deceased Children of the Forest. They would not want powerful human greenseers running around if they can't control them.
So what's the solution? Break them, then possess them. I think the process involves skinchanging into them, forcing them to die, but holding the connection, using it to somehow strengthen the body. Another theory I have is wights are reanimated by a powerful form of skinchanging, and if that's true it stands to reason a greenseer could keep someone alive even when they ought to be dead from their recent wounds. However, I think this breaks their mind if they fail to fly in the dream. And once broken, they can be skinchanged easily, to be used as tools of Bloodraven from afar. I think this is what happened to Patchface.
Also, I think Bloodraven tried to do this to Euron. Balon's story about the storm in the Jade Sea is too specific, so GRRM probably put it in when he knew D&D intended to show Euron killing Balon. I think Bloodraven foresaw Euron as a massive threat, and tried to skinchange him, in an attempt to force him to jump overboard. Either Euron would die and the threat was removed, or Bloodraven could make him a greenseer slave. But Euron's crew tied him to the mast, keeping him fully alive, allowing Euron to maintain enough willpower to fight off Bloodraven. Bloodraven has not tried again because Euron has strengthened his powers by drinking Shade of the Evening, which functions similarly to Weirwood Paste.
This also makes me consider one more thing. Do storms enhance greenseer powers? Or perhaps give them a stronger connection to a place, as if there was a weirwood there? Or perhaps a greenseer can somehow summon a storm. It seems a little too coincidental that Bloodraven attacked both Patchface and Euron during a storm. Wait I just remembered something. The Children of the Forest can create massive storms and floods, that's how they broke the Arm of Dorne and created the Neck. So perhaps Bloodraven and the Children literally summoned these storms! This would also make sense for the Others. Perhaps the snowstorms they create strengthen their hold over their wights somehow.
Sounds like the Boot story. Your best pair is for church, your worst pair is for the dirtiest of work, but your 2nd best pair is the one you take the best care of, because they are the boots you will most likely be wearing.
Bloodraven has the best boots, which are his low tier or no tier magical spies, used for a small amount of time and requiring very little maintenance, his worst boots, which are the base greenseers he uses out on his most dirty muck scraping, not caring if they get wrecked further, and his chosen greenseers, that he gets the best milage and return on investment when he puts in the effort to train them.
The first time Bran wargs into Hodor is also during a storm...
Good to have you back again after 6 months gone and with such an interesting and alluring theory to boot! Really makes one wonder what role Patchface is going to play in the story moving forward
Finally something fresh, nonrepetitive, and providing an explanation for Patchface's role in the universum, an explanation that actually makes sense. Delightful!
The Forgotten Dreamer. What a metal name.
"Under the sea, the birds have scales for feathers..."
Dragons, my dude. No? Also, do we know for sure Patchy's "under the sea" means "in my dreams"? Deciphering the meaning of the phrase "under the sea" is so central to understanding the context of his prophecies that I'm gonna need something that pins JUST the meaning of that phrase down and evaluates it before trying to follow anything that comes after.
I think people get hung up on the individual prophecies themselves, when the key for this cipher is the framing of his musings - the meaning of "under the sea".
Addendum: I'm afraid you lost some credibility when you started mixing book and show. No matter the theory, it goes together like oil and water. Additionally, just because Mel is weary of Patchface and Bloodraven both means little, ultimately - correlation does not equal causation. She's hardly the only person unnerved by ole' Patchy and the allusion to the Lonmouth symbolism has me thinking this vision has another purpose entirely - while Mel would be unnerved by ANYONE that could see through her visions, which are usually a one-way-only deal.
Best theory on Patchface so far.
Great video. I would comment that throwing Catlyn into the river AFTER she died is different than dying from drowning. Suffocation (drowning) can cause brain damage, explaining Patchface’s memory loss, but having your throat cut and then tossed in the river probably wouldn’t have that effect in this fantasy world.
Brilliant video, glad you popped up in reccomended
This is a really great video. It makes me wonder about Jon's connection with Bloodraven
Great to hear you again. The wait was well worth it!!!
First time I have ever heard of U but since we're all waiting 4 TWOW 2 drop I'm reading the books again 2 pluck out all clues. Nice video.
Grrm ALWAYS hides answers to mysteries in otherwise unrelated chapters. That's Grrm 101. You obviously understand this already! I'm quickly becoming a big fan of your work and the way you think. Keep it up!
Fantastic alabastur, your chanel will explode soon im pretty sure
Beyond excellent explanation. Thank you
Blood raven is not the 3 eye crow! It makes no sense for blood raven to visit him as a tree and 3 eye crow in the same dream! The 3 eye crow is the great other or in service to him. I enjoyed ur video. I look forward to watching more
Great theory as usual, can’t wait for more.
First video of yours I've seen. Impressive work I really enjoyed your take on Bran and Pathface.
Me too. So glad to have new content that isn't livestreams
This is good I always saw patchface as a loose piece without a clear purpose. Him being a failed dreamer like Euron makes a lot of sense
I think the “under the sea you fall up” is saying that everything that goes on on land has an equivalent below the waters. They probably have a different form than a crow
as someone who almost drowned and had to be dragged out of the stormy waves I can say that it wasn't traumatic. I just fell asleep and lost memory between when I fell asleep and woke up on shore.
Death is fun. I once almost froze to death as a child, similar experience where you just blank out... and then you're back, biggest wtf moment of my life.
I really enjoy your views on asoiaf great job
Patchface drowned in a mass drowning event with the baratheon & his men , & there's speculation around greyjoy building up to a mass sacrifice of his men for the drowned god (maybe via the bloodravens eye, mass warging into getting them to die simultaneously once the patch is taken off). Maybe the mass drowning with patches was a previous attempt by bloodraven somehow
The drowned god might just be a humongous dormant dragon on the sea bed, an unbelievable size never seen before. awakened by a strong enough scent of blood , which bloodraven wishes to warg into
Great vid btw really intriguing . "Under the sea" link with being a dreamer fits well. Interesting connections to bloodraven
5:00 considering hes talking to Jon i think the crows are the nights watch , (he's seeing the others take over the nights watch, the crows become wight) , but talking about bloodraven fits
This is a really good theory. A lot of people think Patchface changed because of the Drowned God. I'm dont like that theory, but didnt have another explanation.
Nah, man. It's just that everything patchface says goes on under the sea is the opposite of real life but also true.
Falling up is floating to the surface, the birds having scales for feathers is fish swiming in the "sky", the crows being white is just white fish.
I cannot believe this was a year ago! I remember thinking "Yay! it's been too long!"
im thinking that the drastic changes in patchfaces personality could infer a figurative death which then links to only death can pay for life
I think there is a sort of parallel world that contains the gods and beings of magical powers
When you die, you somewhat come in to contact with that other realm if they didn't already contact you before
For whatever reason, these supernatural beings fight amongst each other indirectly through the people of the world
There is some heavy overlap with Lovecraftian themes that I think fit with George's fondness of sci fi and horror
Awesome and creative theory. Im subbing so keep it up please make more.
I don't know how seriously we should take the show canon. It had so many lines and plot points altered. Anyway, great video. Instant sub.
Maybe Patchface was warged by Euron Greyjoy and later down the line warged Euron Greyjoy, himself. It almost feels like it's a battle between wargs, between the dreamers of the drowned. What if they switched bodies?
Wait...Davos DID have visions of the gods speaking to him, particularly the Mother if memory holds. Most likely just a case of exposure while stranded on that rock, but shouldnt be just brushed off.
Excellent. I’ve been looking for a video for the last two days for someone to explain what the hell is up with patch face.
But this video didn’t come up when I was searching for it. It came up in recommended later.
He is ASOIAF’s equivalent to LOTR’s Tom Bombadil and WOT’s Mordeth.
(I love In-world Anomalies in fantasy books)
There is a lot here that seems to reinforce a Lovecraftian interpretation of the supernatural in ASOIAF
It's seems like the comparisons are off a bit. Patchface seemed to have been brought back in a very different way than Catelyn. Catelyn came back by fire, and as we learned from Beric, he does lose memories. Also, Bloodraven should have known what Bran was talking about, he didn't. Bloodraven would have had similar experience earlier in his life and would have saw his own version of the Crow. And his comparison to Jojen is a bit off too, whoever the three eyes crow is, they were causing and guiding Brans dreams, Jojen was just an observer and no power over the dreams.
You make so much sense. Love this👍
I used to think patchface was talking about a kraken when he rhymed about underwater .
Srsly, does any other authors write with this amount of depth?
In that case whom?
Ikr.
Tolkien and Robert Jordan, but that's about it haha and two of them aren't around anymore.
Great video.
I like the idea of Brynden having all these failed acolytes. Otherwise you have to say Bran is his first acolyte. Which brings up questions like why now? why Bran if other people have similar powers?
I think the “position” of the Three Eyed Crow will be a sort of job someone must do, maybe to hold back the Long Night or some other disaster. It seems Blood Raven is dying and needs someone to fill this position. It could be the the Others are gaining power as Blood Raven’s power is diminishing.
Also, it makes sense to say Euron is a failed acolyte as well. He has an expansive knowledge of magic. Possibly more than anyone else in the world. If he trained as a potential successor it would make sense that he has this knowledge since he’d be privy to the more “spiritual” workings of the world. I think he probably failed as an acolyte, or maybe was rejected because he is pure evil, and now wants to forcibly take the power denied to him by Brynden.
Dreamers are fools, waiting for Spring, a dream of spring
This video gave me an idea for the possibility of a sea dragon, or at least, a dead dragon brought back to life from under the sea. Didnt one of the Targaeryan dragons die and fall into the water near dragon stone?
Maybe because jacerys valaryon dragon vermax died there
Reminds me of a few somethings I heard a while ago. The children of the forest used a magic horn to move the land or something. Some theorize the land splitting was due to the root structure of the weirwoods being enormous and moving the land itself at the call of the horn. I wonder if the weirwood roots extend to the bottom of the sea, and could also rescue people underwater. Save their consciousness somewhere else, let the water keep their body cold and preserved, and then slap their brains back in later. Reminds me of how many theorize how Jon Snow will return.
Good video brother keep them up. I just subscribed
Nice one
Bro. I dig this video. Bravo
Without disproving Patchface potential plague resurgence, here is another theory which I think is more in line with Daenerys. In ADWD, Quaithe visits Daenerys at Mereen through a dragonglass candle and gives here the following warning : "Quaithe: The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."
Note that there is no Capital O to Others, which makes me think it's not necessarily the Others at the wall but rather... the following warnings in the list.
Soon comes the pale mare (the plague), and after here the [...] Kraken (VIctarion Greyjoy), Dark Flame (BlackFyre either as Varys hypothetical ascend or the Golden Company members which have a history closely tied to the BlackFyre rebellion), Lion (Tyrion Lannister), Griffin (Griff / Young Griff who travel with him), the Sun's son (Quentyn Martell) and the Mummer's dragon (fake Aegon VI). The perfumed Senechal could be either Loraq, or Varys (always described as perfurmed in ASOIAF) or much more likely Selaesori Qhoran, the "Fragrant Steward" merchant cog which carries Tyrion and Jorah as well as the red priest Moqorro and is shipwrecked.
Besides, the remaning prophecy all speaks about people on the way to Mereen... including Jorah Mormont, which is enrolled with Tyrion in a mummer's show... might there be a dragon in here ?
That picture of him at 0:27 is so damn cool, lookin like a Villain
I watched another video from ASolaF that suggested the Deep Ones and the Drowned God were created by the Children. If that were to be the case it’s an interesting additional connection here. Patchface, a potential green seer with connections to Blood Raven…connected to the Drowned God that has ties to the Children.
Good job
BR could just be warging patchface the same way bran does with hodor, also patchface and hodor are very similar in the sense that they seem like simple man with a simple mind, BR could've been using patchface to watch over places where there was no weirdwood trees such as Dragonstone
Great vid. I'm subscribing
Me too
Wasnt Tyrion wearing motley
Pre-drowned Patchface is like Missandei on 'roids. So many assets 🎭
As to the birds having scales under the sea, Leaf tells Bran that there is a vast sea below the caves, if you travel far enough down, so it *could* be speaking of these blind, white fish 🐟🤔
Also important to note that I'm Grrm older stories the telepaths abilities are stronger when submerged in water
Didn’t you post a video about the blind god in Lorath? Was it deleted?
Super cool!
I don't think Bloodraven is the 3 Eyed Crow.
I've thought this myself.
Fantastic video!
13:00 if near death experiences unlock greenseer abilities then I wonder how Brynden got his
When he lost his eye at the Battle of Redgrass Field
Your very good please give us more content thank u
Whose the best fool? Moonboy, Jingle bell, Patchface or Mushroom?
I’m much more interesting in what is gonna happen to patch faces.
great video
Under the sea. You mean like in snow?
Very cool I love this !
Blood Raven is not the Three Eyed Crow. You should re-read when Bran first meets Blood Raven in the cave, he asked are you the Thee Eyed Crow and Blood Raven had no idea what Bran was talking about. Like old Nan he says I knew a crow once. The two of them even compete for Bran’s attention in later green dreams. The Crow must be either the Great Other or his servant. He could even be the Knight’s King, a crow from the wall (not to be confused with the Night King which was tv garbage). I believe Blood Raven is a good guy who was trapped by the children just like they are trying to trap Bran for his power, but Blood Raven can’t be straight forward because they are surrounded by the enemy. And that might even be the reason he doesn’t say directly that he is not the Three Eyed Crow. Regardless, it is much more complex than what most readers think and it is a huge mistake to think that the two are one. Thanks for reading if you made it this far lol! But I do agree that the Crow visited Patchface among others (Little Finger, Euron Greyjoy, Davos and maybe more). “The Crow is a tricksy bird.” ;)
Yes, I do not consider it a certainty that Bloodraven is the three-eyed crow, but for the sake of the video I just had to keep it simple. Thanks for the insight :)
Thanks for your reply! Hope I didn’t come off as too critical, you do great work. Looking forward to many more of your videos!
I think a very illuminating dialogue happens in one scene in particular in ACoK, when a white raven (iirc) arrives at Dragonstone and does the usual talking while in the presence of Patchface. It plays out thusly;
*The child's mouth gaped open. "It talks!"*
*"A few words. As I said, they are clever, these birds."*
*"Clever bird, clever man, clever clever fool," said Patchface, jangling. "Oh, clever clever clever fool."* *He began to sing. "The shadows come to dance, my lord, dance my lord, dance my lord," he sang, hopping from one foot to the other and back again. "The shadows come to stay, my lord, stay my lord, stay my lord." He jerked his head with each word, the bells in his antlers sending up a clangor.*
*The white raven screamed and went flapping away to perch on the iron railing of the rookery stairs. Shireen seemed to grow smaller. "He sings that all the time. I told him to stop but he won't. It makes me scared. Make him stop."*
*And how do I do that? the old man wondered. Once I might have silenced him forever, but now . . .*
*"The shadows come to dance, my lord, dance my lord, dance my lord," the fool sang on, swinging his head and making his bells clang and clatter. Bong dong, ring-a-ling, bong dong.*
*"Lord," the white raven shrieked. "Lord, lord, lord."
*
*"A fool sings what he will," the maester told his anxious princess. "You must not take his words to heart. On the morrow he may remember another song, and this one will never be heard again." He can sing prettily in four tongues, Lord Steffon had written . . .*
"Clever bird, clever man, clever fool" - the obvious meaning of this Patchfaceism in context of the prologue is that for all the Maester knows about clever birds, he's a fool. We see why this is the case at the end of the prologue but I believe another level of meaning is at play. The raven says two words - it says and repeats the word "Lady" when Cressen introduces it to Shireen and after Patchface does his creepy little song the raven is said to have "shrieked" the word lord. Lord lord lord. What does it mean? Well, I believe that Patchy isn't just talking about Cressen here - I think he's able to see - somehow - ole' one-eye himself inside this bird.
I think he's narc-ing off to Bloodraven that Melisandre - or at least that the shadow of the red god - has come to Dragonstone. Whether he's doing that as a servant of Bloodraven (he does say "lord" in his little mantra - though the raven repeats this, almost incredulously - almost insulted) or as a different representative of a different force or actor simply exchanging information that is mutually beneficial (I lean in this direction) is hard to decipher.
I find it difficult to take elements from the tv show (Hodor) to discuss elements from the book (Patchface). As of now for all I know we cannot say with certainty for Hodors arc to go down the same way within the books as in the tv show.
Bran lied about not remembering what happened when he fell. He says it a few times how the queen’s brother scares him so bad he couldnt tell anyone, not even maester luwin or jojen what happened
I think Patchface may be a skinchanger who was touched by a certain Drowned God, much like I believe happened to Euron Greyjoy.
Patch face will take the iron throne
Ser Pounce is the true ruler of the 7 Kingdoms, and Patchface is his Hand
Catlyn stark didnt lose her memory but did lose her mind
Bloodraven is not the Three Eyed Crow
under Thee sea
It's a bit grating, though it's a good video overall, so I'll keep going haha
I like it ❤
NOBODY talks about THE PATCH part of the face… WHY PATCH TATTOOING? I mean, WTF
Birds with scales could also mean dragons
bryndon is an albino, he is not only knows as white.
What a weird assumption you’ve made, that just because the Drowned God allows some people to drown that means he could not have saved Patchface.
Theeee sea
20:30 Melisandre, is an old woman scared of her own shadow. You forget ,that Blood-raven was a mage in his own right, before the singers got hold of him. Fire mage by birth, shadow-binder perhaps, warg certainly, Before he went past the wall.Of course Melisandre fears him. He's not alone ,unlike her, and has a pool of magic to draw from, that is nigh inexhaustible.
20:38 DUH! she sees her fate if she fails , of course she's scared. You think Blood-raven wont break her mind and use her body if he can?
You really think he's content to be absorbed by the trees and go down in the roots? HA! The singers tricked and trapped him. He has ben looking for a way out since day one.
Bran is not his successor, he is just one more pawn. He 'll link him with trees, teach him enough to wet his curiosity, then break him as he did to patch face. He wants a conduit with the weirwood network, but the conduit cannot be his own body. If he returns to his own flesh, they may not let him go again.
Warging into Bran though.. the greenseers have no hold on him.
Wanna bet he has a mage born body stashed someplace , just waiting for him to inhabit it?
He kills his old body, flees to a new one , or is summoned to a new one at a prearranged time, Leaving a broken mindless Bran behind as a link to the weirwood trees.
You think the body the trees absorb, is the one he was born with? HA!
Love the video! I felt I had to be annoying and say in the show blood raven was the 3 eyed crow. In the book blood raven is not the 3 eyed crow! First off his name is blood RAVEN! You touched on blood raven not knowing what Brân was talking about when he was about. I believe the 3 eye crow is an instrument of the great other. I think bloodraven controls the ravens with Coldhands. In my mind that just makes sense. If you look up crows and ravens. You will find that they are totally different birds. In the books no one likes the crows or really speaks of them. The crows seem like dicks. Ravens are a form of communication. Ravens help Sam and Gilly. Of course I do not know for sure. I did enjoy the video! And I am not gonna be mean and call you names. So please treat me the same. If you decide to reply. It matters how we treat each other. Sending you love. I look forward to your next video!
Did blood raven have black fire , when he went beyonde the wall? Cuz theres a lot of stuff missing still....
If you mean the sword, it's said he took Visenya's sword, Dark Sister, to and beyond the Wall
@@made-line7627 ya i ment the sword thanks
The children are data collectors
What a reach
one minute before the end and you drop a bookspoiler from mister Martin himself. Yeah that's a big shame. I liked the video but i don't wanna be spoiled.
You’re reaching mate, I can see you wanting to cobble all of these things together and make a connection, but a song of ice and fire is not that kind of story. Yes, a great many things are connected but not everything is connected. Whatever is happening to patch face, it’s not this.