Is there an Easy Way to Detect Narcissism? | Core of Narcissistic Personality
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- Опубліковано 2 тра 2024
- This video answers the question: Is there an easy way to spot Narcissism? Another related question is also answered: What is the core of Narcissism? I review various theories about what signs or symptoms are indicative of Narcissism or Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) also has nine symptom criteria in the DSM: a grandiose sense of self-importance; fantasies about wealth and power, believing oneself to be special or unique, requiring excessive admiration from others, a sense of entitlement, a tendency to exploit other people interpersonally, a lack of empathy, envy, and arrogance. The construct of pathological narcissism doesn't overlap perfectly with narcissistic personality disorder. There are two factors to pathological narcissism: grandiose narcissism and vulnerable narcissism. Vulnerable narcissism seems to have a lot in common with borderline personality disorder, but the overlap is not perfect.
Jones, D. N., & Paulhus, D. L. (2017). Duplicity Among the Dark Triad: Three Faces of Deceit. Journal of Personality & Social Psychology, 113(2), 329.
I can usually tell a person has narcissistic tendencies or NPD when they absolutely refuse to acknowledge the success or happiness of their peers. They will either diminish it or start to tell stories how they did bigger and better things in the past. Envy is a REAL problem for the Narcissist. Envy coupled with inability to receive criticism, and I'd bet you're dealing with a narcissist.
Tess W, this is true, mine never once after love bombing: told me I'm pretty or gave me even one compliment on anything about how I looked, never once said sorry or was the one to make up after an argument, maybe twice said thank you. That was in 4 1/2 years.
@@debsabatino311, what's love bombing?
Vernon Hedge I would suggest searching on You Tube for a professional to explain, but it is the very fast paced beginning of a relationship with a narcissist where they mirror you to make you think you've met your soulmate, the love of your life. They ask you questions about yourself to get information. They use this information to lure you in and also to hurt you once out of the love bombing stage and into the devaluing stage. It's gifts, dinners, what ever the narcissist thinks will get you to fall in love fast and hard... It sucks 😒
then most of germans are narcissistic. Having grown up in Germany.....you get a lot of critics and jealousy if you stand out in some way
I agree...and don't forget being jealous of other perceived competition. Oh, I'm so glad to be free of him. Tess W.
One way to figure out if someone is a narcissist (or possibly borderline) is to tell them "no" and see what their response is. If they respect your boundary, that's a good sign. If they are a narcissist and they are wounded by being told "no", they will do whatever they can to get their way. A healthy person will accept being told "no". A narcissist will change tactics.
Wow, that's very good!
Yes! You're absolutely right. Tested it myself, from that moment on I knew with whom I was dealing.
My freedom is always beyond any other thing. I need it to stay sane and healthy in today’s world. So if a person who pretends to love me does not respect my time and my contributions and always says that they are on the right track and i am crazy. I just don’t even bother with saying no. They’ll eventually shy away.
In worst cases. With these zombies you have to take full measure to protect yourself. Some do really cross your lines. When that happens just exterminate them off your life. No need to interact with a crazy one unless it’s a matter with money. Someone who works with you or a parent. And that means only on the surface level. Your heart and emotions should be shut down permanently. There will never be a deep connection with them. It can’t even happen. It’ll be one sided and time wasted and absolutely exhausting.
No isn't always no tho.
one of the easiest ways for me is to ask professional questions. Narcissists can't stand having their expertise and credentials questioned , especially at length. Most normal people embrace honest , pertinent questions. Narcissists have a mentality of how dare you question my authority. It works for me every time. It mostly applies to professionals such as doctors, dentists, etc.
Could not be more spot on!!
Sounds exactly like this Dr who seems to know alot about this because he's talking like everyone's a narcissist. Its because he is one
@@jon-paultallentire3568 doubtful bro, you triggered ? 😂😂😂
At Christina H; Yeh, it’s like such a question turns them into fight status . They turn into dragons and spit out fire. All of a sudden you are in a horror movie.
It took me almost 10 years to realise I was married to a narcissistic person (vulnerable/covert). If I had to guess what the core of his narcissism was, I'd say perfectionism or more specifically, a fear of having imperfections. He needed to believe he was an extraordinarily successful, capable genius who could do no wrong, an image which his mother had crafted. He needed others to believe this and he needed constant admiration. But he was really dysfunctional, not very capable, so he didn't achieve things. I think this set the scene for a lot of fantasy, self-deception, lies and grandiosity. This is my complete layperson's opinion. BTW Dr Grande, this video was fascinating.
Dr Grande, Jewels of Thought channel has discussed Chris Watts' diagnosis of dependent personality disorder in prison. It's not clear who made the diagnosis, but do you think he has it and surely that can't be all he has?
My question is this: if a narcissist projects all their negative rubbish onto you, and you realise that you are, in fact, a long-suffering partner of a narcissist, how do you know that you're not in fact the narcissist yourself, projecting all your symptoms onto your long-suffering partner? This rabbit hole is a confusedly twisty turny place to get lost. This video provides a small candle of light that might possibly indicate the exit. Cheers and thank you for making your videos. You are very generous with your knowledge.
Allotta Reading someone who is questioning such things could not be a narcissist. A narc doesnt question these things at all
If tou are worried that something may be wrong with you or the problem may be you, you are not a narcissist.
Who is fleeing the relationship in pain. That is the one who is not the narcissist.
@@OriginalInsightsTarot They can. And they do.
@@chrissearcher3563 Narcs live in pain. Suffer so much that they want you to join their club!
My biggest red flag to narcissism is when the person does what I call like to call”resumes”. They will almost without fail feel the need to give random strangers their personal resume especially at a time when it isn’t relevant. For example someone will go into an optometrist appointment with a new eye specialist and introduce themselves and say “yeah I’m a pharmacist” or “I’m a nurse.” thinking that it would give them special treatment. They will also feel the need to give “references.” They will go into a fancy restaurant and say to the server “I know the chefs brothers, who was best friends with my cousin...blah blah.” They will talk to you and always try to “one up” your experience with a better version of theirs. They will also give past experience that shows that they’re special in some way. “Back in the day I would walk 2 miles to school in the snow barefoot, carrying my brother on my back up hill both ways.” This happens a lot at family parties for me where everyone is trying to “one up” the other person. They all try to out “vacation” and “car” each other. It’s quite hilarious actually. I will joke sarcastically and say “yeah I made a special trip to the post office on my bike the other day. It was pretty awesome there was no line and I sent my package out right away.”
Cali In the Valley Thisssss!
I have used this little test over the years and, even if not a dead-bang indicator of a narcissist, it sure helps me avoid people who are difficult for me over time. On a third or fourth date, I will say no to the plan they have for the evening. Meaning, if they want Mexican food, I’ll say “hmm…not really in the mood for that. How about we get some Chinese?” Assuming you know they like both, their reaction of being told no will be gold.
Ohh thats a good one!! My ex never let me choose where we would go for dinner, even if he asked me first!! Sometimes he would go so far as to order my food for me if he didn't like what I was ordering for myself!! It was comical, until I realized that was only one of the "lighter" effects of being ultra-controlling.
Both my parents were highly narcissistic, and I learned a lot of their attitudes and behaviors. I had to work hard to strip it all away. I had to become my own parent. A big part of that growing up process was learning I could survive failures and loss of status; in fact, that it was a healthy and normal part of my humanity. It was hard, but I learned. But I found out that embracing and accepting my flaws made me love myself for the first time: I didn't have to put on a show all the time. I think narcissists spend their entire lives putting on a show, even for themselves. And the nicest thing is that when you give up on the show, you can actually see and appreciate others for themselves and love them too. 🤷♂️🥰
You're very special and deserving of our admiration.
Here it is :
I agree 100%!!! I tell my son all the time: "self-deception is THE WORST form of deception." I also tell him: "don't let anybody convince you of something you know isn't true... not even yourself." I enjoy and learn from all your videos, Dr. Grande. After watching this one, you are officially my favorite Doctor on UA-cam! Maybe it's the confirmation bias!🤔😂
Did you ever notice that people who are themselves narcissists seem overly quick to accuse others of narcissism?
Yes, I have noticed this - in a sense it is projection -
Anyone that makes sweeping generalisations, with little to back up what they say, are indulging in self deception by default. No one intelligent, knowledgeable about narcissism would glibly accuse someone of narcissism or assume someone is without knowing them over a long time. The best thing you can do is notice narcissistic traits, toxicity red flags that you find unacceptable and keep a wide enough berth so that you can never really know the truth because you've never got close enough to them.
@@woofiedog7452 interesting comment given you make sweeping generalizations yourself.
Yes .Once you discover who they are they turn the table on you, if you accuse them of narcissism, then they’ll project that in you.
It’s really easy to know what are they up to if they accused you of taking money, they are taking money, if cheating they are cheating. Just pay attention. My advice not contact at all.
Not always, once you've been a victim of narcissistic behavior. Once you've experienced that pattern of behavior, or looked into those dead eyes, detection comes easy.
Thank you for this video. I think my abusive mother was very narcissistic, but she seemed to think see was the perfect parent. I confronted her with what she did to me, and she really blew me off. I have had depression most of my life, so she used to tell people that I was "mentally ill." What a piece of work she was.
You're welcome!
Linda Hamm please go no contact! and try to see therapist experienced with npd - my husband was scapegoated for 50 yrs by npd mother - his suffering was heartbreaking - due the physical fallout he developed heart disease and suddenly had a fatal heart attack last summer - no doubt, this was due to the horrible physical, emotional, psychological abuse he endured - never realizing exactly why his mother treated him this way until we discovered Gail Meyers on UA-cam - please, for your precious life, stay away and heal. The last 5 years of his life he healed tremendously with cognitive therapy, EMDR, 45 neurofeedback sessions and quality of life flourished🦚
I 'm very sorry about your husband. I did go no contact in my twenties. She died in 2002. I'm 61 and have had great therapists in the past. However, it still hangs on some. God bless!
Linda Hamm thank you, his loss for my 12 yo twin boys and I is excruciating - he was a good man with beautiful qualities - one thing his trauma therapist told him after he was hospitalized in ‘14 for a nervous breakdown (after gathering the courage to confront his mother about her awful childhood abuse toward him and her complete denial (gaslighting) of it) was “you retained enough of your goodness to attract gigi” - so without abuse he would’ve been stellar 🧚♀️thanks for listening
@@lindahamm4501 you mentioned God ! He is The Solution...I do not know if you are a believer or not.( and your religion if you have one)..but if you are a believer, there are some prayers for liberation and healing....if you are not a believer, just ask God for your mum to rest in peace ,or forgivness misericordy ( if the pesorn is alive, one might ask God to Bless her/him) I know, that to do this removes all the emotions that are associated with the person in question, ( it does not mean that you are going to forget...it means that it will not hurt when you think about what happens ( or you are not to be angry with her, I mean all the emotional residual will be gone ) God Bless you , your heart, emotions and your entire life!
I think how they react to you saying no is also one good way of spotting it. And in case they do not respect it or push you to change your mind, even if they are not Narcisistic, they do not respect boundaries that well, so you might consider being careful anyway. This is at least the way I try to discern which people are allowed into my close circle
Atavi. how would they react compared to a normal reaction??? can you please give an example
In my opinion, the core of narcissist is the fear of flaws, which is their motivation to create a false self through self-deception.
Agree. Especially since they have a hard time with feeling shame. It’s a catch 22
H.C.Tudor says a big red flag is when someone tells you they are your soulmate after knowing you for a very short amount of time (in my case, he said this less than a week in).
kwiet23 Whether narcissist, scammer or codependent, that is an excellent deal breaker. Run, don’t walk LOL
I said this to my ex but I meant is I legit never met a girl like her and what’s ironic is she was the narcissistic one and abused me and cheated the whole relationship I’ll admit I act narcissistic but she was evil
Also ppl that push you from aquantence to friendship at an astonishing fast pace. When I moved into my apartment I had a neighbor that I talked to (in passing) for about a week. Within the second convo he showered me with gifts he 'got for free' from work and somehow he managed to fit "that's what friends do for eachother" into every short conversation when he forced gifts onto me. And even when I asked him to stop the gift-giving he'd leave them at my doorstep. It was unreal.
@@goodmorningsundaymorning4533 That's actual obsession, I hope his behaviors never went farther than that.
Actually even a casual talk with someone you just met, whatever the circumstances and the place, who starts telling intimate things and closing in litteraly just after meeting you, is a big red flag. It might be someone going through a tough situation that doesn't define his personnality, alright, but most of the times, it's indicative of a whole lot of potential troubles, and that's the red flag.
@@H0kram Alcohol
I would agree self-deception plays a huge part in narcissism
Divine Time i agree no more denial for me. Changing
Divine Time - I think the self deception can be the result of the narc not being reality checked at critical points; where they were appeased rather than getting told they were wrong in a decent manner.
I remember a time when I was very young that a well composed correction was given to me by someone.
I think it changed the course of my life.
that's why they push away people who tell them the truth, and the biggest trigger for them is pointing out their failures. ooooff i remember those few times i dared to say to my father during an argument that he didn't succeed as much as he think in life, THOSE fits were incomparable to his usual fits although they are big. narcs protect their self deception fiercely
I'm sure Dr Grande feels comforted by your validation :)
Agreed. From my personal experience i have come to the hypothesis that the core is self deception. Hiding from self hatered they cope by defending the facade of being a great person by twisting reality.
I agree as well. My experience being in close relationship to a suspected narcissist for years was that self-deception was a huge component of it. And any attempts to help the narcissist adopted a more realistic (and therefore workable) view with realistic goals was met with disdain and contempt.
“Fantasies of success, wealth, power and ideal love...”
I feel like this criterion needs further explanation. It seems very normal to want success, wealth, etc. In fact, it seems almost abnormal to not find those things desirable.
missmerbella That’s what I was thinking too. But, perhaps he means exaggerated levels of those beyond what most people aspire to or dream of
I think an important difference is that the narc feels they are owed these things or that it’s possible to achieve them with little/no effort while most people will either accept that they have to work hard to achieve said goal or accept that they are unlikely to achieve it. So I guess the problem is blurring the line between the fantasy and reality.
@@RomanSheep that makes sense. I think the addition of the words "delusional" and/or "feels entitled to with little to no effort" makes all the difference.
@@missmerbella also its an extremely exaggerated since of the success and wealth, i will give you an example from my own life, as i knew someone who is narcissitic.
he once told me a story about how bill gates got introduced by his mom to someone that "made him" that successful or whatever (completely disregarding the genuis mind of bill gates) so he will try his best to introduce his kids to the people that he knew in hopes that his kid will be the next bill gates. note: of course he didnt say it literally like that, but that is exactly what he was trying to say... and i know for a fact that person is a narcissist.
so you see how it isnt really what most people think of when thinking about having a good life generally.
My ex narc friend I grew up with had fantasies that were not realistic or practical. I knew her since childhood and now we are middle aged and her grandiose visions never materialized. She never made anything of herself but she pretended her entire lifetime she was an expert. The problem is she was the only one believing it, everyone else could see she had no talent. She is now 50 and she still believing in this fantasy that she's never come close to achieving. We are no longer friends, she went off the deep end as a trumper on FB and lashed out at all her nontrumper friends and everyone blocked her. She made horrible financial mess of her life and now she's just gone plain mad. I let her go.
I recently found the concept of the Karpman drama triangle. Anyone else familiar with it?
It matches an Alpha I know who, it seems, Everything he (and his momma) does is coming from a (frame) place of being one of 3 things.... either a Persecutor (bully, superior, entitled, never wrong, pushy, bulldozer, fit-thrower, gaslighter, tyrant, dictator, know-it-all, complainer, controller, diminishes others, triangulates people, etc) a Victim (innocent, likes to hear "oh, you poor thing" wants sympathy, lying, projects what they do onto others hypocritically, Never wants to be held accountable, take no responsibility, to be seen as credible, a Nice Guy, A Good Person without actually being one. or the Rescuer ( the hero, to be worshiped, admired, to be seen as helpfull, to be seen as benevolent or kind but complete phony, fiercely defends the "I'm A Good Person image versus actually being one, etc may even cause a problem just to be the hero who fixes it )
He does everything to protect a constructed Image. Always in turmoil. Always frustrated. Always complaining. Can turn the charm off and on in a split second!
I am in awe. It must be incredibly Exhausting being him!!!
Publicly easy to spot. He is a terrible, phony listener. Pretends to care, quick reponses that usually start with a comparative "well, I, I, I" statement or a competitive "one-up" statement. Or... just says what he thinks a "good person" would say.
Privately... a comunication nightmare. All about a zero sum game. He wins, the victim (you) behind closed doors looses. You are bad and he is the persecuted good guy who is always doing the right thing. (Karpman triangle)
I also recently heard the term Inverted Narcissist. OMG I know two people like this!!! They are Never alphas, Always Betas. Avoids conflict!!! "seeming peacekeepers, nice or laid-back, funny, harmless demeanor, but Very sneaky little shits. They like to know stuff about others while watching them "burn" fall or be duped while they act nice to your face. They adore alpha personalities and gravitate to them like adoring groupies. Or because they dont want to be bullied themselves. They are the eternal Bully's-Sidekick. Bully butt kisser. Likeable, but may have a life insurance policy out on you and set you up to die. Steal your wallet then help you look for it. Enjoy hearing that your girlfriend cheated on you but not tell you, but make sure to be extra buddy buddy to you next time they see you. They dont get stressed out or annoyed by being around other peoples drama if it does not directly effect them because they like to sit back and watch "the jerry springer show" because it makes their cowardly little butts feel superior.
Both types are rooted in self deception because neither is truthful or authentic with themselves or others.
Judy Lee
Going through this now at work
Self deception is common in my opinion in lots of people. We all do it, the motivation is what matters I think. Victims of abuse for example are experts at deceiving their own reality, but it’s coming from a very different place.
I agree: I think he may mean self deception to the point it is harmful in some way.
The hardest part is the guilt trip by the vulnerable narcissist.. It makes you leaving wondering why it always your fault
Self-deception is also the reason why narcissists fall for the MLM schemes. That feeling of being an "expert" on something and knowing better that others about a product is intoxicating for them.
Hahaha great point!
There are at least 101 flavors of narcissists, but I have begun to detect them more easily (the NPD kind) by how they make me feel. But in the early days, it was shoes and fruitiness. If you think there is something strange about their shoes, and yet you can't put your finger on what it is, start looking for other signs. However, you will miss a good many narcissists if you go only by shoes.
Also, they are unusually fruity (overly sentimental or gushy or weirdly sweet) because their emotional development was arrested; they are aware of this deficit and tend to overcompensate.
When I talk about NPD, the kicker is an addiction to hurting other people. They feel the need to make others suffer or bring them down in some way, and it gives them some sort of relief and makes them feel better.
Grace Eversley -you are on to something. For the narcissist in my life, it was the choice of shirts. He would wear the strangest shirts that were often inappropriate for the venue-like the one that was advertising a line of weapons-worn to a children’s birthday party.
For me it was the eyebrows! They really stood out. They looked over groomed if that’s possible to imagine
Interesting. There have been four narcissists in my life and two of them had something unusual about their shoes. Of the other two, one was usually a very plain dresser but once in a while would break out the leather jacket, gold chain, and open carry. The other one had a sort of "cool" style which was, however, not overdone. You made me think.
Grace Eversley - you described people in my extended family perfectly. I found that short calls or visits is the only way to handle things. They are beyond frustrating and can do serious damage to others.
This is amazing. The two major narcissists I had in my life both had a funky taste in shoes and clothing that always seemed a bit "off" to me. I hated their shoes and the weird relationship they had with their shoe "collection"
the overt narcissist is easy to tell. it is the covert nice guy that can fool you for awhile. look out for love bombing at first. i find the covert narcs will be super great at first then they pull a doo-doo test on you. they will do or say something awful that doesn't go along with their niceness. they do a little test on you to see how you handle abuse. it may be really short and then they go back to nice guy. also, you can test them out by insisting that you want something that they don't want. for instance, what restaurant to go to. or you can see how they take criticism. i have come across a few new people that did not take me long to see their toxicity. know the red flags!!!
I might add that they like to share deep personal experiences right from the start, some of those may be fabricated. As well, they get sexual very fast as a part of the love bombing you speak of.
Spot on! Both of you 😊
The covert is very hard to spot if you've never encountered it. Really you never know such a thing even exists until you get entangled with one, and then down the rabbit hole you go. It becomes an obsession.
Joe c, yes the covert is very hard to spot. I am ready to be tested to see if I can spot one. Everyone told me how nice and respectful he was, so when red flags would pop up, i would tell myself, well, everyone says he's so nice. It must be me caring old baggage. Nope, he hid it so well...scary. i am reading down this thread and he watched the same 5 (approx) movies at least 100 x's each. I wrote it off to one of those Star Wars fanatics, but it was more! Scar Face, The Departed,Inception, The Wolf of Wall Street, Gangs of New York. Every week I come across another piece to this covert puzzle! Each peace falls exactly into place! Like you said, until you have come across one, who knew they existed?!?!
its not to see how you handle abuse, its......to assert themselves before things go on too far and get too deep because they are insecure and fearful of you hurting them and/or rejecting them.
I have determined that if I find a guy attractive or funny I need to first ask myself if they are a narcissist or have those strong traits to save myself some heartache. I find them to be funny because I think they are joking. I think they know they are joking. Ugh, but after time passes I learn they are serious. They fly under my radar at first.
There's a book that was very eye opening for me given that narcissists or people with those traits, in addition to other traits of course, were in my life from an early age, Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in their struggle for Self - Elan Golomb. I could only read a little at a time. It was that powerful for me.
...I do have to take issue with you on one point - you didn't specifically mention it, but I'm concerned that you might not believe in "The Force". I'm here to say "The Force will be with you...always". Thanks for your videos Jedi Master! 😁✨
Good point about finding narcissists funny because you think they are joking. My last delusional narcissist "friend" was hysterically funny but he didn't know why I was laughing so much. Over time I realized what I thought were jokes were things he actually thought. For example he mentioned a new employee where he works, a 17 year old well built girl, stripped off her clothes in the elevator when he was in there with him, things like that. And the boss at work told he him could fire the guy who was annoying him if the wanted. He believed these things and I thought he was telling the truth until I finally realized he couldn't tell the difference between truth and his fantasies.
Dr. Grande I agree with your opinion on this. One of the things I observed in my past marriage to a covert narc, was he believed the lies he told me and would adamantly defend them even when they were exposed. I have family members also narcs and what I will say it is a very telling pattern of behavior. They fight to keep a lie going and stay in a false reality as long as that reality serves their purpose. Thank you for you insight on this.
My gut feeling is the best indicator that i’m dealing with a narcissist.
soheila y 🙋♀️☝️ this
A symptom I really like myself to detect narcissism is the 'trail of destruction'. When someone starts to complain about how no one gets them and they've been fired from multiple jobs or keep getting into arguments, even if they're not necessarily a narcissist, I start getting suspicious. Especially if they're sorta bragging or something like that in the process of talking about their trail.
More accurately though, I tend to just label people as "good" or "bad" (as a spectrum) rather than a narcissist specifically. This method has had a lot more success in estimating future behavior than accurately labeling someone with a certain diagnosis, in my experience. I can sorta just... Feel if something is off. Like, if I'm not getting the responses I'm expecting to a joke, or if an idea or a conversation doesn't get the consideration one would normally expect, red flags start to go up.
Def job hopping is a huge red flag ....inability to retain relationships....yes they can be charming so can put on a good show but maintaining may be a issue ....it also depends how mastered they are in deception. I find them very money orientated and egotistical. Watch carefully how they talk and behave towards others this will tell you to stay or go.
I'm no Dr, however I am well read and observant. In my humble experience I believe the smear campaign, or bad mouthing of others when they are not present, then like a light switch, be best friends with the same.
They act like they were on stage 24/7, even if u observe them while they think they are alone in the room.
On point!!
Narcissists’ selective amnesia really fits this concept of self-deception. When they actually can’t consciously remember most of the nasty things they’ve done, because to do so would shatter their good self-image. They’re perpetually trying to outrun their subconscious feelings of shame.
I've known a number of narcissists, both grandiose and vulnerable. Several traits they all had in common:
1. Few or no friends, and only making friends with those who can help advance their agenda.
2. No compassion for the suffering. Will not celebrate your successes with you.
3. No willingness to view themselves critically or admit mistakes
4. If it's your day in the sun, and a narcissist is behind the camera, somehow the pictures will be accidentally erased.
Thanks Dr Grande, I've watched lots of your videos and continue to learn useful info about these complicated subjects. Very grateful for all your excellent content.
Interesting insights into the trait and the disorder, had to end a 5 year relationship at the start of the year and heavily reflected on her functioning. All symptom criteria matched perfectly with NPD. No empathy, grandiose self entitlement, heavily jealous of other women, manipulative but I myself couldn't see that she has NPD as i was in love. It was heartbreaking to find out about her infidelities and it made sense that she had no remorse but for being discovered. An alienating experience, one that shattered the veil of her deception. She had built up a facade over the years of what she wanted me to believe and not reveal who she really is.
The discovery was the most painful thing i have ever psychologically experienced in life and i wouldn't wish the experience on anyone. All the inconsistencies in the relationship made clear, painful sense. The initial shock was met with a sinking feeling of major disappointment at the stranger i now knew.
I think what has helped me slowly heal is having reflected on my own functioning. Daily targeting my core belief systems, practicing forgiveness for those who have hurt me - including to myself. Practicing positive affirmations and practicing gratitude for the intrinsic gifts of life. I have used this as an opportunity to slowly rebuild myself as i continue to do so. I only now wish to get better, not bitter.
Dude, what you experienced was a typical women's NATURE nothing more!!! All roads lead to MGTOW!!!
@@alexkovalev5533 your comment reflects extreme ignorance. Why are you even watching this video? Trying to learn how to better conceal your own narcissism perhaps?
Good video. I detected lying, self-praise and lack of empathy in the narcissist within my family, long back.
I would spot it if the person displays “it’s all about me” traits. May it be a hypochondriac, egotist, woe-is-is-me ppl, etc. These ppl may not all Have five out of the nine characteristics for narcissistic personality disorder, but they display maybe 1 to 4 enough to make them toxic. They all also lack compassion.
sydney1west oh goodness the empathy deficit is blinding. I think you’re right it’s like a mixture, it’s not just one thing, it’s the whole personality, it’s just not a good thing, I can deal with a person that’s me me me, they can be annoying but there’s some good there often too. But with a true narcissist it’s really hard ( if not impossible) to find anything endearing once they are established in your life.
I think emotional discontinuity is a strong indicator, especially if this follows a pattern where the person attempts to modify other people's view of themselves. By emotional discontinuity I mean a person that has a fault in the natural flow of emotional expression or presentation. A very banal example will be of this person smiling at you, but all of a sudden losing that smile very sharply if attention is directed elsewhere, without a clear break in the emotional content that they are consciously interacting with (i.e someone makes a sudden noise, or something of importance shows up on their phone). However, this being very simple and banale, I really mean the more subtle inconsistency that you can observe over time, where they appear to have a very different approach to emotional regulation than most people, where their conscious or subconscious integration, or immersion into their emotions as they present them to other people, is shallow or even non-existent. In other words, they don't really feel their emotions the way we do, they merely employ them for the presentational value they have for others, so as to be able of modifying other people's views of them.
I agree with everything you said, but they do have emotions and sometimes even experience them more intensely than we do. However, all emotions revolve around themselves or their suffering; they are blind to the emotions others.
@@nohasamir3134 They experience negative emotions more strongly than us, certainly. e.g. envy, rage, paranoia etc
Dr Todd -
I have heard it hypothesized, that - "At birth we are all Narcissists demanding all the attention so that our needs must be met first & foremost. From that point on we slowly mature as we are growing up and our narcissism slowly fades as our experience grows. In some the experiences required for that maturation are missing"
I feel it has some validity, what do you think?
I think I can answer, you are right. Four to five years old is when their ego is taking place. Mostly all the kids overcome that stage and they realize they are more people around them with feelings and needs. Narcissist never overcome that stage, thats why some people said they are 5 year olds that never matured. I read a book about this years ago but I don’t remember the title. Maybe “Walking on eggs shells” it was very interesting. They think genetics, environmental and mental illness are the 3 legged stool of the Narc.
I would say when we are young we show lots of narcissistic BEHAVIORS, but I wouldn’t say we are all narcissistic at birth because we don’t reach the developmental milestones i.e., age, to be diagnosed.
Dr Grande’s quote at the end was thought provoking regarding how some people detect narcissism very well while others don’t. Either there’s a lot of people with NPD out there, or I’m just paranoid, because I tend to suspect it in a lot of people I know. I wonder if I’m cynical or just highly perceptive.
Amanda Galloway It’s an epidemic.
This one really has made me look closely at my past relationships and one in particular, male and I’m a male knowing each other for for over 30 years as a mentor to me and I believe that you are spot on Dr G and if I did not except his Findings (hardly ever founded on solid facts,)he would began his Devaluation of me ,and this went on for years until I started studying the Cluster B Personality, I also married one .I believe that I’m Cluster C Dependence Personality, and when I stopped serving their needs the Games Began from mentor to wife and maybe my Daughter (NO CONTACT)🙏🏼 But I definitely will concur, they believe their lies and if you are close to them ,you had better believe them also .🙏🏼🌈💐👍🏽❤️🎯
Or seem to believe them while dying inside
Enn Vee That’s why it’s impossible to argue with them. They will win merely because they win in their own heads. No one can penetrate the shell of that nut.
"...the Games Began...". That certainly rings true for me.
It's hard to detect one if you're not his/her target. And even if you're the target you need to know the behavioral red flags in order to spot early on. But there's also the fact that narcs try to avoid "healthy" people when selecting a target. I put healthy on quotes because I refer to people who naturally reject and block narcisists, due to their well built self-worth and values.
This is such an intelligent observation.
True!
Hi Dr. Grande. I hope you're having a good weekend. This was actually a very interesting video. Yes I think you have a good point here about self deception might be the core of the narcissist. It makes me think it's a part of the immaturity of the narcissist. It's like when a child has himself dressed up and tells you he's Batman. Then you as an adult say something to the child like;" Wow, that's great! Who are you going to save today Batman?" The child himself is at that moment convinced he IS indeed Batman. He believes he is it a 100 %.
So the course of the self deception might be the fact that the narcissist has never grown up and is still on an emotional level of immaturity, actually a toddler. He hasn't had the opportunity, because of injury in childhood to grow up like a healthy mature person, with selfworth. Maybe, maybe that's the deepest core; IMMATURITY! All children are narcissistic at first, but by not having positive experiences with the parents the child didn't had the chances to become a emotional healthy adult.
Hope you like my example doc 😃🇳🇱
Great talk, as always. Putting together your thoughts on self-deception and its relationship to fantasy/suspension of disbelief with your insight about humans as born narcissists.... Kids are often very focused on fantasy and pretending; healthy adult functioning requires that we (largely!) outgrow this. Notable to me how popular it has become in recent years not to outgrow it in daily life -- I wonder how you might see a correlation between this (chronological) adult focus on fantasy (comics, superheroes, zombies, vampires -- the list goes on! 🤯) and the growth of state/trait narcissism in our culture...?
Thank you and I agree with your points. From what I have observed those very high in NPD traits seem to have a very hard time spotting it in others. It's like they are blind to it. I think this has something to do with very low emotional intelligence and their unconscious shame which traps them in their unconscious shame based behaviours and blinds them to those they see in others..
I find it kind of interesting how a lot of people think they are experts in the anti-narc community. Like narcissistic resistance called someone a covert narc because as a father he didn't keep his promise of removing his daughter from a abusive relationship with the mother. Really? Just from that one instance you can assess his personality? Furthermore, he said just because a male was looking at other women on a date that he's a narcissist. This video really shows how nuanced people are. Thanks for this video and shedding light on the complexities of mankind!
I believe that's a really good point. The childish factor allows them to believe their own lies about themselves, almost like an extreme form of 'fake it 'till you make it'. Any attempt at bringing out the lies and inconsistencies enrages them , like taking a favorite blanket from a two year old, but you are dealing with a full grown adult.
My dad is almost certainly a narcissist, (and also bipolar), and his seeming obsession with self deception makes it difficult for me to spend time with him because I'm always so tempted to call him out on it. It's almost impossible to have a normal conversation with him because I know after a few minutes he'll start making grandiose claims about himself and pretend to know much more than he does and make sure the conversation revolves fully around him, regardless of the subject matter. Even when I prove him wrong or catch him in a blatant lie, he either doubles down and plays victim, or pretends like it never mattered anyway before abruptly changing the subject. I've always wondered to what extent he believed his own lies, but I never realized just how fundamental it was to his narcissism, but it makes perfect sense.
I think you really hit on something fundamental with this notion of self-deception. I think what complicates it is that we have all deceived ourselves before to some degree, whether it's failing to correctly process some stimuli or trying to make ourselves feel or be something that we aren't at the moment. Narcissism seems like it's probably at the extreme of that spectrum but I think we all have some degree of self-deception in ourselves and our society encourages us to feed in to that part of ourselves.
I have been depressed off and on for my entire life and I can't even count how many times someone has tried to convince me that if I pretend to be happy, I will be happy. I realize that these people mean well and that this at least appears to work for some people, but I feel like people are just trying to bullshit me when they say that and I realize that they feel uncomfortable with me sharing my feelings so I try not to tell them about it after that. I have always wondered if people really pretend to be happy and then believe their own bullshit. It always seems absurd to me. Of course, I have other types of bullshit that I have believed and undoubtedly still believe so I certainly can't throw any stones at anyone else for it. I just think that it should be taken into account the degrees of self-deception in everyone and how people may be deceiving themselves more or less in different areas.
Self-deception is a powerful indicator of mental disorders. Thank you very much. It is a very important observation for me.
Great video, Dr. Grande! Let me add to your theme of quality of lying that pathological narcissists engage in. There is a short book by the philosopher H. Frankfurt, entitled "On Bullshit". In the terminology of that book, a liar has a deliberate consideration for the truth, inasmuch as he is motivated by a desire to "steer around" the truth. (In this regard, a liar is similar to a truth-teller who has a consideration for the truth in order to aim at it accurately.) But a bullshitter has almost zero consideration for the truth, in that he may utter pieces of untruth and pieces of truth, all the while being motivated by another dominant need. In my opinion, a narcissist is a bullshitter, with a specific type of motivation. In a conversation, his dominant motivation is not related to the truth (to aim at or to carefully avoid it); his dominant motivation is to use others to regulate his self-esteem. Thus he is motivated by a need to "win" a conversation by "wowing", confusing, intimidating, emotionally suffocating, or exhausting an interlocutor. He needs to draw people around him into playing certain roles to explicitly or even tacitly confirm to him that his image of himself is viable. Thus he uses others to breathe more life into his internal fantasies of domination and uniqueness. His goal is to validate those fantasies to himself, to make them "real" as they are reflected back to him from unwittingly complicit others. Is this bulshitting behavior easy to detect? For psychologically healthy people - yes, probably. But not easy for some of us who, like myself, have our own problems with immaturity, neediness, low self-esteem, etc. "Trusting your gut" seems to be a pithy, if vague, guideline to detect a narcissist. Based on the above, I would add: "Watch for a bullshitting style!"
Love this! Thank you for sharing. It has opened up a whole new world of philosophy and research for me to indulge in. My mapped out theories about certain elements of human psychology, for which I had begun to conclude, were becoming boring and far too textbook. I am excited to head down another road of possibility. All thanks to you and the strangely enticing "bullshit" theory. Big thanks! And of course to H. Frankfurt who I would like to read up about. Thanks to you too Dr Grande. I love your honesty and cross referencing. Always leaning toward a challenging edge rather than blindly conclusive. A breath of fresh air.
@@renehale8721 Thank you for your kind words. And I agree with you that Dr. Grande's channel is a breath of fresh air; I am glad that through UA-cam we have access to such rich sources of information as he provides. Take care!
@@SK_TorON 100%... amazing times we live in!
This strikes me as a profound insight (between lying and bullshit), and I can reflect on my own reactions to (and detention of) each -- and hypothesize about the relationship to and prevalence of each in various disordered personality, relationship, and even larger organizational patterns. Thanks for this -- next long drive will be fascinating! 🤗
I really enjoy these videos but we should be careful not to drive ourselves into illnesses or paranoia by looking for boogeymen in our past or current relationships - some people are just garden variety selfish. The sense of certainty we enjoy when calling behaviour pathological is just as much a power game as the behaviour of narcissists
Global labeling and weaponising classifications to validate egocentric righteousness due to being hurt is never ok, but i guess nor can one assume the relational experience of another.
I am still very much hurt by what she has done although I continue to actively seek healthy activities to better my mental health.
For me, this disorder has helped me understand the former dynamic of my past relationship with this individual and my experience of abuse.
I'm learning a lot from these but we have to be careful not to diagnose everybody when we are not really qualified to do so.
I agree; the torment can be troubling of self-diagnosis. The topics are crucial, wish we learned these common societal things in high school. Dr. Grande is calm and makes it seem that the news is not all bad; obviously we're tuning in because we each have some pain over this topic. None capable of self or other diagnosis, and Dr. Grande helps at least organize how the continuum may look with any mental health challenge.
I tend to believe that lack of empathy was the center of narcissism and the other symptoms were born out of it. But it's true that in my experience I've always fantasized about stuff most people would think is impossible and I'd get upset if they told me otherwise. Maybe those two symptoms are the core, I've never thought that self deception would be it since what really made me realize I was different its that my emotions are turned down in comparison to others and as a child and maybe even adolescence I thought people faked being sad when they heard something bad happened on the news or someone they barely knew died. Maybe self deception is harder for a narcissist to notice.( still, I don't think I'm self deceiving myself but guess thats the symptom)
ThexCSmOuse I’m guessing you’re a narcissist? Thank you for your insight, it helps a lot of people to understand.
Thank you! I really appreciate your comment, I always wondered why my now ex told me I was trying to manipulate him when I really felt sad and cried. He also has high expectations in his future
ThexCSmOuse Thanks for sharing. It's next to impossible to actually get truth from someone with npd, especially on this topic. The anonymity of the internet helps too I would suppose. That's interesting. My main interest narcissism, besides defending myself from manipulation and self-evaluation, is having a narcissist parent and the other having many traits, I like to use that understanding to maintain what relationship I can with my mother, who has developed her traits by trying to survive my father.
I’ve been scapegoated by npd older sister for decades, my husband mother is malignant npd - I’m now working with a narcissist and have let go of a few narcissistic female friends ........for me, it’s my UA-cam and articles of education that have given me the tools to detect and tally the traits of these predators , but the number one telltale sign for me is how I feel - when I have the very first thought that someone is truly a narcissist it is always after I have felt “less than “, “not myself “ or consistently unhappy in their presence - then I look back and bc I am knowing of the traits, Voila! I see they are a narcissist and i remove them from my precious life😃
I can detect narcissists pretty well. Its a feeling i get when i talk to them and interact with them. Sometimes it's immediate, sometimes it takes a little more time.
When someone new smiles at the misfortune of others that is a major red flag, especially when it's yours. You share some bad news about your day. You display hurt, pain, frustration and they perk up with interest and slightly smile.
FANTASTIC VIDEO Dr. Grande.
Yes. I find that a factual account of the core of NPD.
I enjoy many of your videos Doctor
Interesting...you related self-deception to grandiosity. I have been relating it to their perception of being a
victim. I have been focusing on how how denial is used to avoid facing the truth so as to protect their fragile egos and avoid responsibility/consequences for their actions. It is true; they have to deceive themselves in order to convincingly deceive others. When the balance of wellbeing and healthy interaction with others is tipped due to chronic destructive behaviors and thought processes, it should register, “Houston, we have a problem,” but they refuse to see it that way. They project their problems and wrongdoing onto others, suggesting a belief that ‘it’s everyone else’s fault.’ While this eludes to an external locus of control, they must (on some level) subscribe to an internal one given that they are highly controlling in relationships and will resort to extreme levels
of aggression until they to have their way. Just like small children, they have trouble regulating their emotions and throw temper tantrums. While they may acknowledge that they had an outburst and view their temper as their only problem, they blame others for causing them to react so to avoid taking responsibility for their emotions and behavior.
'you have to lie to survive' - the words of my ex.
Sounds like your ex was being truthful by acknowledging that.
I wonder if society reinforced these individuals’ belief that lying will achieve greater outcomes, because they found it to be quite successful, or if these individuals simply have convinced themselves that lying is the only way.
@@GenaP2024 And to think this behavior may have started very early in life just to always be in survival mode emotionally. This sounds definitely like environmental surroundings
I would like to believe that the power of nurture can prevent social-emotional difficulties. For that reason, I advocate for a social-emotional curriculum that has a scope and sequence starting in kindergarten all the way to senior year that builds healthy relationship and emotional management skills; thereby breaking negative cycles that perpetuate in maladaptive families.
I think it was her verbalization of her unconscious beliefs and from what i am aware, NPD is thought to be the product of early environment, though i acknowledge that ones functioning remains multifaceted and shared environment doesn't mean necessarily mean shared outcome. Unfortunately, she was never honest about anything, even with herself.
It’s always good to revisit a talk and review ones original thoughts. I was listening to little Shaman yesterday and I think what she mentioned may tie up with this, isn’t this the false self ( in a way). The way the little shaman put it was, the narcissist has learned to hate and be shameful of the real self 😔. And so constructs the false self and works tirelessly trying to present and preserve this ( something like that anyway). Could you do a video on your take of the false self? maybe you already have. I’ll take a look. Thank you for this Dr Grande
From my experience the way to being able to spot narcissism is brutal self honesty. It always takes the liar and the one that believes the lie.And if we lie to ourselves we train us to believe lies.
The most important thing for me was to spot the narcissism in myself that was growing as a reaction to a narcissistic mother and then narcissistic female partners.
When i stopped believing the lies i told myself and became humble again (which was very painful) it was getting possible to see the patterns where said people treated me inhumane without respect or empathy.
That didnt make it easier. But now, with the knowledge from videos like this, i can see the patterns of narcissism in myself and other people much easier.
The people with NPD just can not break their own patterns even after they have been pointed out and everyone around them starts to see them and give them feedback.
They will try to escape the truth that they are not the self idealized image they created by any means necessary.
Every pathological narcissist has this self image, which is a very dramatic one (victim, hero more seldom perpetrator , mix is possible).
For example "the really hard fighting lonely mother, that manages it all really good against all odds" (victim and hero) was a reoccurring self idealization that i met.
from what I read we have a lot in common.go MGTOW, friend.
@@mikemann8795 I got some interesting information from people that call themselves MGTOW, things that might be called red pill knowledge. At the same time i dont really identify with the movement because i, as an individual, am learning to go my own way anyway.
So can you specify what you mean?
+Joachim Thome all meant was go your own way it's not like you have to call yourself MGTOW to do that. I was just going through the comments and I just noticed too many stories that sound almost identical to my childhood and just couldn't help but think that what if some MGTOW knowledge could help in some way? it helped me.
@@mikemann8795
I understand your intention and i appreciate it.
We live in a individualistic society where narcissism is to some degree very useful. Problem is when this is not integrated, meaning pathological...especially in mothers because they dont love but instead misuse their children.
They are a pest of the past two generations.
In the end people with NPD are really poor people. Stay away from them, dont hate them, be compassionate.
Mourn and let them go.
Learning to trust is a hard thing after dealing with pathological narcissist multiple times.
Surround yourself with true friends. And use your knowledge to build a group of friends that trust and support each other (interdependency).
This is also the best counter to ever fall for a pathological narcissist again.
Absolutely appreciate this, thank u so much Dr Grande. I learnt from Rebecca Zung's tutorials that narcissists are addicted to conflict. That was an epiphany for me. I therefore am acutely aware of where there is a pattern of ongoing conflict, there has to be a narcissist present. This is a winner!! Be it a boss, a colleague, a partner, a sibling, a parent, an -in law, sure enough, conflict is the driving force of the narc. They cannot resist a fight, or an argument...it is free fuel for them...don't have to pay at the pump. LOL. They get their fix free of charge. Oh yeah, narcissists are addicts. Give them conflict & they are as high as a kite.
I love this video and have watched multiple times but I don’t think I ever commented on it.
Excellent as usual!❤
I apologize that I do not always click the thumbs up button, mostly due to my speed-watching your videos. I have learned a great deal from your teachings and I am grateful for them. Thank you.
A well-thought-out masterpiece in terms of one’s own description of “narcissism” using the minimal language. THANK YOU! 🙏
Dr Angelina
I have a mother in law who was envious of every girlfriend her son ever had and then me, his wife. He finally admitted this to me after 24 yrs of our being together. She would run out of the room when she believed any statement would remotely refute she was imperfect and super intelligent. When my dad died she immediately said "Well,I'm going to live to be 103" exuberantly. That's it. When my mom's and our family home burnt to the ground she immediately said to my husband " Check my circuits to see if they're ok." That was all. She had rats climbing all over her bedroom yet would blatantly deny it, and we knew she saw them, for one more example of her behavior. Later, she blew up and accused me of stealing her son (her "husband" to her we've concluded) and MANY other ludicrous rantings. He finally admitted to me he had previously been in therapy for incest by her for years, I never knew this. It has become clear to me she is highly narcy. Never once in 23 yrs did she talk to me without a verbal attack of one sort of another. She's the most clear example of narcissistic self delusion I've ever seen.
It sounds like your husband certainly went through a hellish experience growing up, and like your mother-in-law has included you in her current nightmarish behavior; how painful 😖. I wonder whether you have heard of a book by M. Scott Peck called "People of the Lie" -- it's very intense, (case studies of families, etc.) but quite interesting around some phenomena you and your husband might find familiar. Honestly, I often recommend it to folks with nearly unimaginable histories, because it can be helpful with perspective ("It's not me -- I'm not crazy -- I'm not alone"). [It looks at a profound level of disturbance through the lens of evil, and so crosses into moral territory now unpopular in the postmodern era -- it's an older book -- but I and others have found it helpful...?] Praying for an upward journey for you and yours! 😌
Hello Dr. grandeI woke up to discover I was surrounded by narcissists in my own family. Your description here is the best one I’ve heard. Best to you!
I like how relaxed you are!
“Self deception “ just what I needed to hopefully detect it. In the future. Brilliant. Thank you for this video
Whether or not the narc believes the lies they tell to be fact, or if they intentionally lie in order to deceive has been a burning question as I research this condition. Thank you!
Thank you for the video Dr Grande 😌. There’s a girl on UA-cam, the channel is ‘my narcissistic healing ‘ ( I think) her name’s Sada Brown. She’s quite open in describing her narcissism, ( diagnosed) and yes she believed she was superior, and talks about how she’d make up elaborate stories, It’s quite profound how she describes it. She has insight though, she’s receiving counselling and support from her pastor. So is trying to overcome the disorder. I have no doubt my ex friend ( I’ve known him since junior school) has NPD, his brother was diagnosed with a PD, I’m not sure what though. My friend’s got worse as he’s got older , I had to fall out with him so he’d stop visiting, he’s really bizarre. Not insane, but the pathological lying and the fantasies and it’s all about him being superior. He’s always right, he’s all knowing, he’s a horrible person, a bully, misogynist, racist. Everybody has something wrong with them but him. Sickening arrogance, and dishonest in his actions too, no conscience, but he does seem to have some empathy and I’ve seen him cry a few times ( over severe tragedies) seems to get over it really quickly, but I do think it’s genuine. If he didn’t cry I’d have had him down for psychopathy. I don’t think there is any quick way to know, it emerges slowly over a few months. I think the most profound thing is how they seek control. It’s a control where you are completely wiped out, but still there. It’s a hard thing to describe.
I should point out I fell out with him because he couldn’t be trusted. But he’d just stand there and deny everything, you would think he was telling the truth, which just made me think, he believed his own lies 😳. Wow
You're welcome! I will have to take a look at her channel.
@@DrGrande her channel is great, i know a lot of people with NPD and I feel she is the real deal. I have a lot of respect for her.
Dotty P, Narcissists can cry on demand. It is all fake and they use it to further pull you in. They use this type of mechanism to manuplate, get sympathy, attention from others, and play the victim role. They will make fake apologizes and act like they are crying during their drama act.
Do you have the link to her channel? I cannot find it with a search. I'm having my own battle with narcissism (I hope it wins, TBH... I'm sick of being depressed and sensitive all the goddamn time), and I want to hear more about it from confirmed NPDs.
Thank you so much!
I'm happy to be out of narc tornado.
Great observation, this took my understanding of them to the next level
One thing that leads me to consider narcissism is pretty simple - they don't thank you. If you give a gift, they may gush on about a gift & how great it is, but they won't say thank you. Because they feel they deserve it. OR it's not good enough for them. The same is with a compliment. No thank you. I believe a lack of gratitude can be indicative of npd or narcissistic traits. I have no scientific proof but I've found it to be true in my experience with narcissists in my life.
Laura Paskavitz but covert narcissists are really deceitful- they will absolutely thank you in public but ignore your gift in private.
Yes I noticed that a narcissist will never thank you for anything, whether it's a gift or a good deed.
Thank you for your video Dr. Grande! my experience was they must always be right, & make you wrong. Also, the traits in the DSM, yes. 💯 I do agree with your view on the deception part. ❇️🙄
Really enjoyed this one. I can definitely see what he's saying here. I never thought of it that way but it's very accurate.
Yes the self deception. You are right on. Thank you!!!!
The deception is always something I have noticed in my father and my sister, that they were/are so far gone and removed from who they really are, how they behave and the hurt they caused to my mother and my family in general. But it's only been clear to me that both most likely are narcissists the moment I saw no remorse for what they have done to hurt my mother mentally, physically or financially. As if it never happened, or worse, as if they were the victims of the situation then. Same this year with a supposed online friend who happened to be the absolute opposite of what he claimed to be then once we were face to face.
That analysis of yours however makes me question if whenever I was deceived, it was simply people doing it to me or if I participated in it too. But when it comes to other symptoms of narcissism, I don't find many traits I recognize in how I act, except for a tendency to be envious of people (that is more or less there).
Love all your videos . I like your dead pan informative delivery. . Makes me trust your opinion .
Can't stop watching and absorbing data from Dr.Grande's clips. More videos pls
Abraham Twerski Addictive Thinking, understanding self deception, narcissism, alcoholism, yep. This concept from that book long ago.. thank you Dr Grande for brining conversation back to self deception. Still have narc traits to work through and out... mostly been empathic, sensitive pole on this continum. Self deception important piece for me both ends of my recovery, narc traits and people pleaser self doubt! I'm moving on from the entire continum.
I have narcisistic traits and came from an narcisistic home and sufferred abandonment. To survive to a hard fear o vulnerability and impotence in relation to family and environment, I used to radically fantasize that I could be powerful and I could solve the problems that surrounded me. At the same time I got a fractured ego were the fragile and angry of mine were radically denied. It took twenty years of therapy and persistence (and mood stabilizer) to get a minimum equilibrium.
I can relate to the fantasy thing. I used as child to believe in my omnipotent fantasies in face of reality.
Today I got to no contact strategy with my moother, stepfather and sister because it's to much.
I can remember I creating idealuzed personas and trying to convince people of them. One day a friend of mine said in front of his mom that I speak like the people in TV shows and I felt caught.
Fascinating video.
Thank you for another excellent video! I want to share that my ability to recognize narcissism has definitely grown tremendously over the past few years.
As a survivor of domestic violence, I did not recognize the red flags because of my upbringing. Within my family and culture I now that I was conditioned and valued to be a people pleaser.
Taking care of others and denying my own needs became a way of life as well as my identity. Fast forward 30 years and I found myself in a brutal marriage. I believe I was emotionally numb to my own needs, however, what I could not ignore was my children's suffering.
Through research and seeking out counseling and social services in my community we were able to deal with the situation. The research and personal growth shattered my distorted childhood perceptions and forced me to grow up fast.
After years of more harassment toward me and my children, I was granted sole conservatorship for my youngest child--while representing myself in court. My abuser is an attorney himself, yet hired an aggressive attorney. It didn't matter. Facts are facts and I had a mountain of evidence.
I am no longer emotionally numb. I now recognize unhealthy behaviors and interactions with other people and myself.
My late education in narcissism has simultaneously provided by children with a master class in the subject and how to deal with it.
As horrific as it was to go through, we are absolutely stronger and wiser because of it. I am happy to know my children and myself will never ignore narcissistic red flags.
A huge thank you and shout out to Dr. Grande! You are one of the sources that I turn into over the years to help understand what I was dealing with. You have my eternal gratitude.
Amen, I agree...I do this to keep me from ending it all. To over write my PTSD. Kalki here I come.
Dr. Grande, could you please do a video about arrested development, especially with how it relates to narcissism? Thanks, keep up the great work!
You are good Tbib. That is cristalline.
Good talk, thank you x
Great, great video....thanks!
Met a covert/vulnerable, took me three years with helps of loads of friends online to understand what was going on, thought he had aspergers. Then he went into psychosis and I read up on schizophrenia, then I thought schizoid..Finally I found videos that when I took a closer look, described all this completely scary/disturbing and unempathic behaviour and understood. This. was. HELL! Im so grateful for all these videos so I can learn and never end up in this again.
I now think self deception is a key in detecting. Thanks for bringing this up
Very interesting. You could also look at it inversely as a stronger indicator; a lack of self deception would point towards NOT being narcissistic.
Hello Dr. Grande. Thank you for your informative and scientific videos. Would you please make a video comparing giftedness and NPD?
Hi Dr, you definitely make an interesting observation when you mentioned self deception. My family, especially my dad and sister have some strong narcissitic traits and my mum to a lesser degree - but they ALL suffer from self deception and are in major denial when it comes to things they dont like to hear or face. In my own personal experience, i would say a major factor is when a person who is always drawing attention to themselves. I know a girl who always has to be the centre of attention. If its a small group of people, she has to be the one talking and everyone else listening. If its at a party, she has to be the one in the centre of the dancefloor showing off. If you tell a funny story, she has to go one better. She has no empathy, is often insensitive to the feelings of others. If she ever appears to show interest in other people, its normally because she is trying to get some needed information otherwise shes more interested in talking about herself. She even admitted she likes talking about her self. She has amazing confidence, is naturally aggressive, bold and fearless. She says things like 'only the best for me' etc. I would say she is definitely extraverted and intelligent but very damaged from an abusive violent father. She has constant problems and all her relationships are very turbulent and short lived. I guessed she suffers from bpd and possibly bipolar. She seems incapable of being on her own and seems to need constant attention, company and validation. Shes a mess! She also has a ferocious temper. It took me a while to figure her out, but i seriously think she may suffer from npd or at least has several traits of it.
Great work
I think that your opinion about self-deception being an indicator of Narcissism is a very compelling proposal for how to detect a potential Narcissist.
My question is drawing off of that observtion: some individuals are more capable of reaching difficult goals they strive for than others, so at what point do we call it narcissism if some of the grandiose ideals seem lofty, but not totally unrealistic ?
For example, someone I've known for 20 years has always asserted that one day he'll be a millionaire. That sounds lofty to most people. However, he does accomplish more grandiose things as an entrepreneur than many others would. He comes close.
But his downfall is often he doesn't pay close enough attention to details in certain financial considerations, and tends to bite off more than he can chew, or downplays problems that have the potential to topple the whole business plan or hamstring it down the line.
If he could correct those oversights, becoming a millionaire might be a possibility maybe.
But he's also enjoyed some successful business ventures in the past, maybe 30% success rate.
I also have 2 male relatives who proclaimed they wanted to be millionaires, one throughout childhood & adolescence.
One never achieved it and went to prison for embezzlement, then became a truck driver.
The other is doing fairly well, married into a well off family, worked hard, makes a six figure salary, and is an inventor.
So are fantasies of being a millionaire delusional when obviously it's possible for some people to succeedin becoming one?
The question to me, which begs to be asked is more about: "WHY is being a millionaire SO important to you? That it's THE #1 GOAL and the main PURPOSE of your life?"
To me, getting to the root of WHY they fantasize about the bigger, better version of themselves gets to the source of extreme narcissism.
I ponder: if they didn't have that image to strive for, would they just give up and find no real meaning in life or their present situation they find themselves in?
If, theoretically (like the Magic Question), God came down and told them, "You will NEVER be a millionaire, no matter how hard you try, it will never ever be a reality for you in this life." Then how would they process this knowledge? How would it affect their life as it is now?
I think deep down inside they must be deeply dissatisfied with life as it is, and they always will be, because even if they were to reach the status of millionaire, it still wouldn't be enough for them.
Aren't we all on the narcissism spectrum, though?
Perhaps the test for higher levels of narcissism is how much outward status and material wealth an individual perceives as what defines their intrinsic value in the world?
In other words, I wonder if you could detect how narcissistic someone is by how attached they are to material things, titles, and hierarchical concepts?
Thank you for this insightful video Dr. G. I am wondering if you have a video about how to handle or react appropriately to the narc's attempts at manipulation or conflict that they try to inflict on you - and how to separate and eventually stop thise things. I am sure it isn't easy. Thanks again for all this excellent content. I started talking to a therapist to help learn how to deal with things like this, as well as my past and other residual things. It was thanks to your eye-opening content that I decided to go for it. You have a calming demeanor and your balanced approach is refreshing in this world we live in right now.
The 25 people who gave you a thumbs down have not dealt with a narcissist or don't understand the true meaning of narcissism. Thank you for
covering this topic!
I had the fascinating experience of being latched onto by a true narcissist (who loved the attention I gave him) and he first believed he had a great band (it was just him playing the guitar terribly on youtube videos no one watched) and now believes he is going to be a world class athlete in spite of not having the physique for it but still making videos of himself exercising as if he is in training for worldwide competitions. These people are delusional. He zoned out if I ever mentioned a word about myself, unless he was using what I said to try to convince me he was into it to keep my attention. Just amazing. He was quite charming and funny, but ultimately it was a blow to my sense of self, the increasing put downs. There were constant references to delusional thoughts about himself and his future greatness. Not in touch with reality at all. His best friend constantly knew how to stroke his ego in creative ways.
It always starts with love bombing. They will always put you up on a pedestal, get close to you, then kick you off. This gives the narcissist a sense of victory, for the time being. The best reaction to this is, no reaction, this pisses the narcissist off real bad. But by then, if one is smart enough, you won't see the narcissist in the same light the next time you interact with them
Thanks for sharing as always.
I immediately wondered if a Narcissist would test high in the Achievement Striving facet of Trait Conscientiousness (because of those fantasies of weath, power, and ideal Love).
Smirking, being too good to be true. We are conditioned to be attracted to those who appear good, but watch out for anyone who appears unnaturally good, talented, sincere. Being too good to be true is the biggest red flag, watch out people!
I agree. And I had to describe this to my divorce lawyer once. I explained: Lots of men may say bad things about their soon to be ex wife and may put themselves on a pedestal by comparison, but they are lying...and they KNOW It. My soon to be Ex actually believes his own lies. I think experiencing NPD, for a long length of time, especially in the range of malignant narcissism, affects one so deeply and is so damaging...it is like the smell of death. Once you smell it, you never forget that smell. Narcissists have their own, individual Modus operandi, but they all have the same fingerprint.