Can Narcissistic Personality Disorder be Treated? | Younger Self Technique for Building Empathy
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- Опубліковано 11 січ 2020
- This video answers the question: Are there counseling techniques for building empathy in individuals who have narcissistic personality disorder?
Narcissistic personality disorder is a Cluster B personality disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). It has nine symptom criteria, five of which are required for a diagnosis.
1: Grandiose sense of self-importance
2: Fantasies
3: Special or unique
4: Requires excessive admiration
5: Sense of entitlement
6: Manipulative
7: Lacks empathy for others
8: Often envious
9: Arrogant attitudes or behaviors
Narcissism:
There are two types of narcissism: With grandiose narcissism we see characteristics like being extroverted, socially bold, self-confident, having a superficial charm, being resistant to criticism, and being callous and unemotional. Vulnerable narcissism is characterized by shame, anger, aggression, hypersensitivity, a tendency to be introverted, defensive, avoidant, anxious, depressed, socially awkward, and shy.
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I'm glad to see you address this. So many videos about narcissism fall into a narc-bashing category. It's nice to hear something helpful.
A lot of them speak without knowing too.
They take the signs, make them fit, and roll along with this idea that we can all become experts in that field by watching someone having traits.
It is much more than the traits. It is an entire thought process and if you don't get why one reacts x or y way, then you can't know for sure.
It is not a self evident diagnostic. I am sure Dr. Grande would agree with that statement.
He does a good job at providing a lot of ways to be neutral enough to be trusted.
I'd hug the introversion out of him if I could, just for that.
@Scott Whatever which they never do... They don't care...
That’s because they’re insufferable to live with! 🙂
@m norton buswell
"Personal energy management" ...I like that, gonna start using it.
Hugging won't change introversion, I agree. But why would anyone want to change an introvert? They (we) don't need to change!
Kenny Pham I’m sure you’re insufferable to live with as well
In my experience, Godzilla is usually working at the DMV.
😂🤣😄👍
They do want to breath their dragon breath at you.
Where I live (Oregon) the DMV workers are polite and efficient. I attribute that to their unionized status.
Kevin Hornbuckle ya my part of Oregon put in that kind of smooth system to LoL but 1 worker that’s been working there for years still goes over board to send people home for some kind of mandatory paper that when ya get back the next worker says no we don’t need that
@@dazie1245 totally.
That Godzilla analogy.
I laughed so hard at that.
You enjoy those movies Dr Grande, do you?
"Maybe a vanity tag" 🤣
We need more information of this kind. Treatment, therapy or management of narcissism must be given more focus in order to help the narcissist and the people around them as well. Other videos really sound devastating especially when they say that a narcissist has no hope of changing and that they will always be destructive.
Go tell it on the damn mountain you are 100% right! I think UA-cam should only allow videos that are productive in some way. Even bashing could be used for positive change so the vetting system would be impossible, but I think people are very short sighted and presumptuous about a disorder that is not well understood or has many case studies to go from. Thank you for being SANE
I think that part of the issue, for many people, who have found themselves in narcissistic relationships, isn’t always 100% feeling that it is untreatable. But that, no matter how much you may love this narcissist, how much time do you have really? A good portion of us live in a world where we have to earn a living, treatment is expensive and most often unsuccessful and, in the meantime, years of your life can pass, while you’re still being abused, while you’re on what is a Sisyphean trek to hopeful solutions, by someone who is quite conscious of what they’re doing and can be having such a good time abusing you, while killing off your most productive years, that they’ve essentially murdered you.
It is why, although I know I need to work past the narcissistic abuse my mother was doing, I am not told by others to simply get over it. It is time I will never get back and a murder of sorts. I owe her no more chances and no further time.
The reality and truth is that there is nothing wrong with protecting yourself, at the expense of a narcissist. It is showing empathy for yourself, unless you don’t mind being so empathetic for someone who is abusing you, that you don’t mind coming to the end of your life, with your major accomplishment being that of polishing a turd. An awful thing to call a human being, but that is what it amounts to, for so many who have a Stockholm Syndrome stance, when it comes to ensuring their abuser is taken care of, more than themselves.
@@privateprivate8366 👍👍👍👍💜
I agree, to a point. But, then, there’s reality.
There are psychotherapists that won’t treat narcissists, because the psychological construct of it prevents many narcissists from seeking and accepting treatment. While I don’t like it anymore than anyone else, because it sounds as if you’re throwing a person away, because won’t accept treatment or because it doesn’t work, the only other answer often seems to be to sacrifice yourself, your dreams, your goals, for someone who is quite consciously and actively ruining it all. I understand that the majority of the world see these things as fate and life, from which you shouldn’t even want to escape, but not everyone sees it that way. It is not a cure to sacrifice one person’s life, for another. Particularly when it is the worst that might thrive.
@@privateprivate8366 Exactly. There is no point in treating a narcissist. They literally cannot change because the disorder prevents them from being able to change. It's ego to the absolute maximum. Narcissists only thrive because the world caters to them. The best way to rid the world of narcissists is to shun them until they wither away.
Love this video!
“Your abuser will not change for you” is good advice for a victim of abuse. We should always help victims get out of danger as quickly as possible. That line is different from “narcissists can’t change (period),” though - not bad for victims to hear, but it probably isn’t what we should tell psych students, or people interested in mental health more broadly. A 2014 study by Aline Vater et al. found that 52% of people who stick with treatment for NPD will go into remission over two years. Sure, those aren’t fun betting odds, but there is hope for those who want to change.
Getting in touch with my “inner selves” radically changed me for the better. I learned from Nathaniel Branden’s books how to integrate past versions of myself, especially pre- and during-trauma versions of myself, and its as if I finally woke up from a nightmare that was the life inside my own head. Through his techniques, I discovered that my child self held me responsible for the abuse I suffered as a boy, and had never forgiven me. I learned to connect with that version of myself, and I learned to let go of feeling guilty for suffering that was out of my control, and also to accept and forgive myself for then going on to cause unnecessary suffering to myself and many of those around me. I’ve since largely returned to that wonderful boy I was before I suffered abuse, though I still face tremendous mental health struggles. But now, I don’t feel guilty about my struggles. I don’t feel bad about my feeling bad. Now, my life is worth living. If this resonates with anyone, check out Nathaniel Branden’s book “Honoring the Self,” or any of his other books, all of which are absolute game-changers for me, and hopefully to you, too!
Thank you for sharing this, very interesting and insightful. I will research the book(s). More more more from people like you who have found an avenue to breakthrough to positive change! Go tell it on the mountain!!! I appreciate it and I know there a many many others who would as well
Wow this is 100% how I feel thank you for all that info and personal comments, I just started a process of recovery 2 days ago to save my marriage but more so to now focus on me first and then hope everything else falls into place thanks again... God bless you
Wow this is 100% how I feel thank you for all that info and personal comments, I just started a process of recovery 2 days ago to save my marriage but more so to now focus on me first and then hope everything else falls into place thanks again...
Wow this is 100% how I feel thank you for all that info and personal comments, I just started a process of recovery 2 days ago to save my marriage but more so to now focus on me first and then hope everything else falls into place thanks again.
Thank you!💕
I love vids like this that aren’t overly stigmatizing about personality disorders. I have a friend with narcissistic traits who I still love and care about despite their manipulative tendencies.
In my experience, people with personality disorders such as NPD seem to rarely live in the moment of NOW. They are always thinking about something you said at some other time. No matter how you try to bring things into the immediate present, they always seem to try to sidetrack you into discussing something that you might have said at some other point in your life. Furthermore, they don't seem to have a very sophisticated method of discerning the validity and veracity of the things they remember. They cherry pick their memories to build a case for what they want, often with a total disregard for the actual interests of whatever counter-party they are dealing with, regardless of whether or not the counter-party is a relationship partner.
Barring Borderline Personality Disorder, Psychopaths and Narcissists can't change (in my opinion), and they can't live in the now because they're assholes.
@@kennypham3856 where'd you get your information? Out of your ass?
@@chrischittum9639 , no, by talking to other people on mental health forums, by hearing opinions from other psychologists! EXPERT psychologists! By listening to other people in life, and online? Also, it's pretty much general knowledge that psychopaths and Narcissists can't change, or at least have a severely hard time, changing! Also, I will admit, me saying those with those personality disorders, can't live in the now, is my opinion! What's up your butt? Did you have a bad day?
@@kennypham3856 Every time I see yet another self proclamated psychologist online casting doubt on another human's ability to recover or improve I have a bad day. So, sounds like I was close, out of your ass. If you'd done your research you'd have seen that BPD had the same thibgs said about it, now it's viewed as treatable, where did you get your PHD? How many narcissists do you know? I mean DIAGNOSED narcissists? Either way, we are all people and have the ability to change or empower ourselves any way we wish, so if you have nothing good to say, perhaps it is you who is the "asshole"
@@kennypham3856 Kenny, dude, as a narc myself I think it's really ironic that you are generalizing a whole group of people with a medical condition as "assholes". Narcissists aren't some mass-produced product - we're all individuals. Some of us are going to try to change and succeed, some of us are going to try and fail, some of us are never going to try at all. I don't know what you gain by trying to tell people that narcissists will never change, but I can tell you that hearing shit like that when we have vulnerable egos makes us a lot less likely to change.
Sadly ,in my experience, only the Friends and Family of the Narcissist end up in therapy, NOT THE "SICK" One.😩😔
Very true
They leave a high body count to be sure.
@Damian Lopez oh my gosh, I am so sorry for you having to deal with your Narcissistic brother, I can relate bc I have a Narcissistic mother and it took me till age 40 to finally realize IT WAS HER NOT ME THAT IS SICK. It is a tough journey to mental happiness for me, I had to make serious boundaries with her( which has always been difficult in my life and relationships). It is like you go through a " death", I had to finally realize that I NEVER HAD the mother i thought i had. And the importance of taking care of myself, not everyone else. Just remember you are a SURVIVOR, and the Narc is so I secure and without empathy that they only want to destroy you bc they wish they had what YOU had. Don't let them make you believe that YOU are the one " messed" up, I am glad you are in therapy, if I didn't have therapy I know it would have been a nightmare. The Narc is an expert in gaslighting, making US believe WE ARE THE SICK ONES. 😩🙏🏽🙌
@m norton buswell wow, I can relate to what you are saying. Sitting " shiva" I can relate to from being brought up in a Jewish home. We were raised to respect our parents, I too defended my mother for decades. I buried so many things deep down that it affected me both mentally AND physically. 😞 Your therapist does sound wonderful. And Genius, I never heard of that but boy does it make so much sense and what a way to really hone in to Who really is the problem. It was Never You...
@@juliea.7292 I, too, had a narcissistic mother. I had to cut off contact altogether because she would call and verbally assault me, especially when she was drunk. I would just delete her messages (rants) without listening to them. Unfortunately, she died unexpectedly during one of those "no contact" periods. I feel kinda guilty about that.
speaking of narcissism, i'm first to comment, give me upthumbs
Mank Demes 🍪👌🏻🥴
😏😆🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🖖🏻😆 Please always, keep your humor.
You are so charming, loving the Godzilla at the DMV, looking for his personalized plate - as if he needs to try and stand out.
I’ve observed instinctual affective empathy in young children 3-7 including my two sons. My theory is the narcissist once did as well but maybe them feel uncomfortable/shame or embarrassment. They began suppressing the uncomfortable feelings creating a preoccupation with how others perceive them causing feelings of persistent anxiety. It works for a time but at some point they lose the ability due to not developing it over time. Like a flower that never bloomed.
That sounds close to how my life went. I seemed to have empathy until age 6-7, then started worrying about what people think and suppressing it. I was sort of normal until fourth grade, then became an autistic narcissist from then on and now I am an adult with same issues.
This was really intresting, you seems like a very good and smart counselor!
Thank you for being a clinician that explores challenging areas of treatment!
Thank you Todd. The younger self technique assumes the NPD can remember their childhood.
I'm happy that there are people like you who really want to help those with NPD instead of treating them like Quasimodo. I don't think anyone is inherently evil, some people need more guidance in order to normally live in the society. I'm in a relationship with a person who has a lot of narcissistic traits but at the same time has many difficulties living a normal life and has hard time building healthy interpersonal relationships which is making him very lonely. I don't think he's doomed for being like this, he doesn't know any better because nobody taught him so. I know it might be naive of me, but I don't think he's a victim while being the predator. I think everyone deserves to be treated as if they were neutral and not evil just for having a disorder that is claimed to make people manipulative and aggressive. It's like thinking that those suffering from schizophrenia will want to murder people because their hallucinations will tell them to. These bias and stereotypes are nothing but harmful.
It's thinking like which gives narcissists their power to keep on harming others.
I’m a narcissist and have issues, which I wish would go away.
I’m a fellow narcissist and I know the feeling, but you sound a bit like you’re waiting, do not wait! Educate yourself, avoid the naysayers and make it a point to be gracious first thing in the morning, be in the moment, make eye contact, listen intently to others, put yourself in their shoes, it’ll be forced and weird to start, but before you know it you’ll do it automatically. Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t teach an older dog new tricks. Education and self awareness-self evaluation is a bitch for those of us who have abused, it’s gonna hurt, but change is possible and i wish you well friend.
@@chrischittum9639 thanks for the positive feedback will take it onboard ❤️
I recommend meditation!please follow Heartfullnes meditation technique, u can find it in UA-cam
Dr. Grande, this is fascinating. The person I knew who was very strong in narcissistic traits had replaced his identity with a manufactured one, not in the way we think of as the false self but in a way that he claimed to have essentially destroyed memories of both his childhood and adolescence due to an invent that caused a lot of shame. A remark was made at one point that he found a recording of himself as a kid and found himself "stupid" he said he didn't remember much about his childhood and he seemed to have a real disdain for his "old self." So the new self was superior but yet there was still remained this terrible morass of self-loathing. So he couldn't have found compassion or empathy for himself as a child.
That's pretty much me. I was destroyed and made anew. For many years I felt like a clone with small fragments of someone else's memories, and ages ~17-19 I see as being like early childhood. There is nothing "before" that, for me.
Thanks Dr Grande. This is really great. I did not feel anxious listening. You have definitely got the right approach. And someone would trust you. Pity there isn't a Dr Grande where I live. So pleased to hear this video; very positive. Well done, but then you deserve it, you really try so hard in making a breakthrough. I often asked myself, how is it possible that coming from trauma, we are now left with something that is untreatable. Yes, I think the answer is addressing the child. Thanks again for all that you do.
Great analogy Dr Grande 😀 Interesting, as always!! Thank you!!
I'm betting there's a real soul sucking negative "groundhog day" or "50 first dates component for anyone attempting to initiate any type of self awareness into a person with NPD!!
Imo, anyone to do so, is an unsung hero!! Now that *really* is grass roots ☆changing the world☆ around us!!
This sounds like a professional therapeutic session.
Only applicable by therapists.
The problem is narcissists mostly forget what happened in childhood.
It is difficult to refer to the past.
I use examples where I remind them of themselves where they have dealt with a similar situation.
Sometimes it worked bringing things into perspective .
Sir, I laughed out loud at your Godzilla riff. Mad comedy points for the doctor!
Joshua Boden hilarious😂😂😂👌🏻👌🏻
Love learning so much about NPD! Really fit's a person whom I had to slowly dissolve out of my life.
From what I know of attempts to treat narcissists, I believe the mode of treatment you suggest is destined to be futile in most every case.
Only when faced with the worst life prospects, such as threat of imprisonment, is a narcissist likely to attempt therapy.
However, most narcissists finds the experience of therapy deeply threatening and they immediately take the role of victim, blaming others for the predicaments they find themselves in.
When narcissists take responsibility for their sordid pasts, they feign empathy and contriteness. When they humbly plea for forgiveness their humility is an act and they resent that they were compelled to debase themselves with an apology.
I have read a number of narcissists’ written apologies that begin with contriteness but end with blame and hostility.
They read, “I’m so sorry for what I did. Really. Please forgive me. Now let me tell you everything that is wrong with you....”
The fact is that deeply traumatized and disordered adults are nearly impossible to treat. In their heart of hearts, seasoned counselors know this but they pretend or imagine that just over the horizon, there is hope.
The incredible number of people on psychotropic drugs should point to how effective counseling isn’t.
Treating narcissists with drugs has not been effective.
‘Of the attempts’ you know of that were ‘futile in MOST cases’, how many cases? Mostly futile means some success, this is merely one mode of therapy, not the gospel. So, where’d you get your info? How many futile cases and how many successful? Same doctor? Same treatment?
Surely you wouldn’t just piss a comment like that into the wind, on a subject this serious?
Not very helpful
@@chrischittum9639 A general principle of counseling is that people seek help when they are in emotional pain or they judge their lives to be unbearably disordered.
While there are people we may describe as being overly narcissistic, being narcissistic, and having a narcissistic personality disorder, NPD, are different.
A person with NPD exhibits a range of anti-social behaviors that are socially condemned. Beginning in childhood, people with NPD have learned to conceal and disguise their antisocial behavior, which is often criminal behavior. They learn to rationalize and justify their bad behavior, using techniques of manipulation, blame-shifting, and smearing the reputations of those who call them out.
Of all those people classified as having abnormal personalities, narcissists are often among the most successful in navigating life. They are often charming and charismatic They tend to be excellent actors (con artists) who can fool most people, most of the time, including psychotherapists.
When confronted, in couples counseling, they generally play one of two roles. They play the role of victim or they play the role of the sane person. In contrast, they represent their partners as unbalanced and disordered. A third role they may play is that of the repentant. However, in the repentant role, they are generally faking their repentance, clandestinely continuing their troublesome ways.
A husband and wife came to our center for a week of intensive couples counseling. Their marriage was on the rocks. Both arranged for 4--7 sessions per day, including, individual counseling, couples, and group. As was agreed between the two, the husband went to all his scheduled sessions. However, secretly, the wife canceled all of her individual and all of her group sessions in which her husband was not scheduled to participate. In secret, she arranged a refund, to herself of the prepaid fees for our scheduled services. Because of HIPA privacy rules, no one was allowed to inform the husband as to his wife’s actions.
I treated both clients. In couples therapy, the wife used every trick in the book attempting to divert focus from her behavior and to redirect focus onto her husband's foibles. Nothing good came of the week’s counseling. The wife had used the counseling environment as a means of gaslighting her husband and the center’s staff. The husband eventually gave up and, a year later, he divorced his wife.
@@patharvard Kudos to the husband for escaping that toxicity!
This was incredibly helpful to me. Talking to my younger self. This is Masonic teaching.
I love your videos. Thank you for explaining things as plain as you can. Please keep these informative videos coming! 😊💜
Thank you Dr. Mothra. Helpful as always.
Love to hear more episodes focused on therapy techniques!!!
Once again, Thank you so much Dr Grande for so much helpful information you put out! God bless.
It feels so good hearing Dr. Grande's voice again. No further technique necessary for me today. ❤
Lol he does have a soothing voice :)
Was waiting for it.... "As they already 'know' everything" 👌🏽
Thank you for the bringing this topic to light, Dr. Grande!! Looking back, I remember many of the so called narc "friends" would smirk while listening to my story about something. Some of them called me "being thick skinned" for not knowing the context of what had happened at that time. Some narc strangers would laugh behind my back, and I didn't know why. Some of them asked for pictures exchange, but then disappear from my life. Some others asked to take group photos, also just to disappear forever, and until this very recently knowing about NPD only then I got the answer. Somehow the narcs can't see happy people. Because they love drama, after knowing you enough, they are very good at matching you with the right drama that can drag you for a lifetime. Imagine that. It had happened to me and my family for three generations living around these narcs. Again, thank you, Doc, and God bless🙏🤞
I didn't get if you think to be a narcissist and your friends were narcissists? This is a story I haven't heard from a person I know. I think he is Bds or narcissist. When I met him I said his friends bullied him. After a few months he did the same with me and I had to close my Twitter account while he is still there pretending to be Mr. Fab. Anyway hop you are not like this fool.
that was really cool, thank you for sharing
Before watching this , I can say that, this will be one of the most awaited videos !! 😀
Very informative discussion once again. Thank you Dr. Grande for sharing your knowledge and insight with us all. This truly has been such a valuable tool in my daily life.
I hope it helps others directly as well as help other therapists to take what you share here into consideration.
I literally ROFL with that Godzilla bit .🤣🤣😂🦖🦖🦖
Godzilla analogy is perfect, thank you for another great video.
Thanks again Dr Grande.
“ I don’t know what Godzilla would want from the DMV, maybe a vanity tag” 😂
Genetic component? A family Narc's moto was "once you can fake sincerity you can use anyone". This narc also once entered a room full of people and said casually to no one in particular , " i love being a narcissist, i love not having to care about anyone ".
They leave a high body count for the therapist's couch.
Narcissist - Godzilla = same thing. Thank you, Dr Grande. 👍🌹 I think they're hopeless pecisely because they are narcissistic.
With all due respect, I wouldn’t want a family practice doctor to just “do their best” because the nearest heart surgeon is 2 hours away. Considering the stakes in mental health, esp Cluster B patients, I think counselors should always refer to someone with personality and trauma experience, or otherwise an accurate context for the disorder. As you have mentioned, they could do harm by suggesting the patient is at fault. You hear horror stories about incompetent or untrained counselors, that surely keep people from seeking treatment.
Judy Lee Wow. I had no idea. They need to fix that. I see “coaches” all the time that appear to be narcissists themselves.
@@jamesgerboc HELL YEAHH!!!
"Giving stock tips to the younger-self." Whoa. Said at first session?
i love the sound of this type of counseling and think it would be effective for someone I know who says they have no past hurts to deal with (yep narcissist) even though was raised in alcoholic family drama. interesting...one of the most pertinent videos for me so far.
Thanks so much for all the videos you have posted. I listened to a bunch of your videos about narcissism and I was hoping you would consider creating a video about Narcissistic Religious Leaders, focusing on how to recognize this personality disorder when interacting with religious leaders and tools for the victims of these people how to recognize, process and handle the situation.
There is now a ton of information and support for people with narcissistic family members but I have almost nothing about this in regards to religious leaders. Thanks!
I have been taking my narcissist back to his childhood in recent months....the conversations have been fruitful in helping him to see himself, and hopefully, to forgive himself. It makes sense seeing as the most important person to a narcissist is him/herself.
Good point, but it is tendency for all people to place themselves first, not letting those w NPD off the hook but let’s be real
@@chrischittum9639 Yes, and it's healthier to be that way. Boundaries = self preservation.
Simply fascinating and the thpught of talking to my younger self brought me to sobs and nauseau.
Hugely interesting! Thanks!!
Thank you for this very helpful information 🙏
I've been listening to HG Tudor, a narc psychopath who says they can't change. I've never seen any evidence of any that changed or wanted to. The closest is the testimony of Dr. David Wood but even then he has only a concept of empathy but doesn't feel it but he became a Christian Apologist and has a long successful marriage and strives to do what is right. Interesting topic.
OMG Godzilla wanting a vanity tag!! Love your humour Dr Grande!!
Lol, love the Godzilla analogy :D Good video! :)
Low key dr, grande. Healing people through UA-cam
I always like the use of analogies from Dr. Grande. This time it's Godzilla. I'm wondering when it's time for Dracula or Frankenstein. Great vid again doc 😃🇳🇱
Please do a video on Dracula Dr. Grande! 🧛🏻♂️
Admittedly, I ate some chocolate-covered cannabis espresso beans a couple hours ago. I'm a little... I'm a little chill right now; and you, Herr Doktor, are cracking me up. As soon as you started talking about Godzilla, I thought I'd somehow lost a few seconds and missed the transition. Then when you mentioned having to remind patients that they can't actually go back in time, I was fuckin' dyin', man. Bro... seriously, you need to put some stand-up material together.
He has a very dry wit perhaps most appreciated under the influence of cannabis.
dude how much did you eat
4:19? Yes, yes I can spare one MINUTE to celebrate ur cause...
These are great questions to journal through even without a P.D.
Kit cars and Godzilla in a sentence I'm loving it my two favorite things. This is very interesting and I opening video as my youngest daughter is a narcissist maybe I'll help me try to understand her I'll give it a shot thanks
Another great video! Dr. Grande could you do a video on the mental health and personality of Luka Magnotta?
This made me realize how much I was bullied as a child. I think my desire to toughen myself caused me to be a bully or at least inconsiderate.
The central problem is the narcissist believes everyone but them needs to be treated. "If someone can't comprehend my greatness, then something is wrong with them."
seems like most of the comments on here so far.. like the people only watching it to feel like a victim of a narc when half of them probably dont realize they are one. People watch these videos and reflect on themselves and some people watch the video and just reflect on how they have been treated by someone else while remaining completely oblivious of their own similar actions. It can be helpful if you dont realize yet but to continuously use it to dwell and hate the narc only makes you more of a victim. You will only be healed when you forgive the narc and move on, like my mother for example. She never intended to be the way she is and i know she suffers very much for it, no point in adding to it.
@@mariashrute7899 Finally a coment that isn't hateful, vindictive or demeaning. Thank you!
I have narcissistic traits but am desperate for help. I don't think I'm great. I'm damaged goods.
@@thetruthshallsetyoufree5092 same, narc father
You need a breakdown in order to have a breakthrough. You’re right, without acceptance there’s little hope for change.
Hehe, I love the Godzilla part Todd! Had to watch it several times.
Awesome image to have swirling in my brainy-thing when listening to your explanation =P Keep up the good work, you are much appreciated =)
I did a group project and presentation on working with NPD clients while in my master's program. This is really great information, and I'm glad you're putting it out here. It also feels good to see you come to many of the same conclusions that we did in our work.
I think this is a beautiful technique for everyone, because also healthy people like to talk to their younger self and improve certain things inside themselves, specially regarding empathy. It seems good fun for empathy and so much more.
I'm not diagnosed with anything but I found this very helpful I think that addressing my younger self would help me with my unstable identity issues
Wonderful! ❤
Interesting video Dr. Grande. Would like your opinion about artistic individuals and eccentricity.
Perhaps a video in the near future? 🤔
Thank you so much😌
This was worth it to hear dr grande use his Godzilla analogy.
Narcissism,ASPD and psychopathy are fascinating subjects. I Read Hare's book on psychopathy about a year ago, Snakes in suits I believe it was called. I have read a little bit about narcissism but do not know much about it.
Me too. I never get tired of learning about them
@@kathrinjohnson2582 I don't think I've ever known one but there are people that I've meant in which I would be suspicious about based on their behaviours. But Because I read Hares books I know that nobody can be diagnosed unless the person is trained to do so, and it happens in a clinical setting. So my suspicions mean little.
@@stephenemanon6612 don't underestimate your instincts. Sometimes you can tell something is dark about a person
@@kathrinjohnson2582 I agree that I can tell if something is off in a person but I just wouldn't be able to identify exactly what it would be.
@@kathrinjohnson2582 Do you know a narcissist?
Very interesting video Dr. Grande Thanks 😃🇳🇱
Very very interesting way to do this.
"It's like Godzilla showing up...he's burning things, knocking things over..." Dr. Grande, that was great. Just a tiny bit of humor went a long way in this topic. It is helpful and that was an a very useful visualization I think!
Thank you.
I've been through this. Extremelly painful, but it works for me. You have to walk the path
As a layperson, I think I saw this Godzilla but not at the dmv. Yesterday, Antonio Brown, an NFL wide receiver, live streamed a profanity ridden tirade involving his ex-gf, mother of 3 of his children and police. I read one article recommending treatment for him. God bless the counselor who agrees to take that case on no matter their experience level! Thank you for your hope inspiring content.
Narcissists are unique. It's the only sickness where everyone else has to take medication. 😁
Wow 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Would you rather be the narc? or are you
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, it's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserve it.
Every single narcissist I've met follows this mantra.
People like Dr. Ramani Durvasula says that NPD is an untreatable personality disorder. And, she also states that trying to treat people with NPD will actually worsen their NPD.
That is probably true as it is well known that if you unmask a narc or when their mask falls off they will become worse.I have witnessed this first hand myself,they hate to be unmasked.
Maybe this is true _at first_. Maybe if they are in therapy for this or reading and watching videos it's good to go in knowing that there will be struggle. I would think this is true of most of these disorders. My own involved removing myself from a damaging environment that is pretty much normal life for most in the West. While removing myself there were new problems generated. It's unnerving to need to construct a new and clean self but what we inherit culturally is mostly trash and the job of self-reinvention is urgently necessary - individually, socially, ecologically. Trickier still for those with NPD but if they have approached therapy then they are more ready than people with NPD still in denial, still on the self-involved rampage.
Well, Daniel, Dr. Ramani Durvasula is wrong and moreover-a terrible doctor! I wonder where she gets her information...? I have read and read the very few case studies that have been done during the brief history of NPD being topical, there’s just not enough evidence to say something that crass.
@@chrischittum9639 Dr. Durvasula is said to be one of the most learned, on the topic of NPD.
Vanity tag, "IAM-GOD"
Or a z tag
Hey Jeff Vanity tag #2 ICURAQT
Thank you very much Dr Grande for a video of hope to all narc’s that will reach out on you tube while crashed in deep depression & hiding in a safe place looking for help
This is grate in several ways = even though I have empathy & even though I’ve been in consoling more years then not I haven’t been given a diagnoses NOW I understand why 👍🏻
yep “Godzilla” they are very commen in this area lol like a normal part of public every one waits for the fit at the counter like it’s normal behavior then the line starts moving again AND yes most of them think it’s normal but some are hurting and scared & many want help with the angziaty SO YES allot are reachable - empathy ya in this neck of the woods the Godzilla’s under 50 actively like doing random acts of kindness lol when there not mad = after me searching this area for consolers that specialize in personality disorders & being mad it’s not part of are mental health I did realize they would need a special building cuz the Godzilla thing is real = this mental health has put in allot of group skills classes & that’s a safe way cuz people choose if they want finatual skills - anger skills - support group & yes it’s helping public fits calm down
My opinion from knowing a few narcs that brag about self centerness if they watch a friend getting better they go ask the friend only cuz they’re down & out BUT that’s reachable & these skills classes show a small chunk at a time is better then nothing - they will crash again & the more friends that stay the consoling course & actually get better others will join in even if it’s just playing around they got something inside that they would like fixed AND yes rediculasly slow with total freedom of choice to drop out knowing it’s safe without punishment to come back even if it’s months or years So Yes Thank You Dr grande & Dr fox you guys are spot on = I don’t know what My diagnosis would be but the last few months you two have me getting better then all the consoling I’ve done = this is the missing link I tried to say I’ve got
even though I have empathy I did start blowing up & knew I was turning into one of the lol ”Godzillas” lol & ya along the self help & consoler way I noticed something crying inside me at times it gets really bad once in a blue moon SO I decided maybe there is something to the inner child crap = I’ve talked to it in a calming way when it gets obvious over the last 10ish yrs at one time I tried to tap into it = seems to be a dark long eal - THATS BEST TO WAIT FOR THE RIGHT KIND OF HIGHLY SKILLED PROFESSIONAL so I don’t mess with it anymore unless it gets obvious then I just let it know either were ok or I agree there is something to cry about but we got this fare so we’ll be OK ( cuz I haven’t been able to cry for years It can do the crying for both of us )= it does at times scream & ball really bad - few times it’s nocked me down into zombies or bed ridden state SO YES being gentle & honest helps so I decided to RE-RAISE myself & that’s when I found real doctors on you tube so now I know what kind of console to ask for & I’m starting to consider asking my last consoler if she would go threw Dr foxes new work book with me 🤝 she might cuz she was baffled & said we will figure this out = she kept believing her own thoughts with things like me being a bigger coffee drinker then I am & a few other things but that’s OK she’s a human to so I kept politely plugging in the correct info lol also wandering if she’s doing it on purpose cuz i realize a smart consoler would do things like that to get an honest assessment = I quickly decided either way is ok as long as we don’t meet every week for over a year telling me I’m ok & it’s amazing that I came threw my life events this well f?!k no I’m not ok turning into Godzilla = I did set a boundary by letting her know the 1st visit I’ll come weekly for 3 to 6 months for an evaluation but I will not stay every week for 1 year without some kind of punch line - if it takes years to fix me that’s ok but no more just some one to talk & babble to cuz that’s making me sicker = she said that was reasonable = my lose of income got in are way but least she agrees somethings wrong so I’ll fallow thew with her as we agreed when I have a steady 6 months gas money back in place
thank you
Thanks!
Very interesting. This might actually have the potential to work for some to a certain extent.
Very inspiring, even if aspirational. If it helps, moves us in a positive, constructive direction, or at least shows promise, then we'd be fools to dismiss the possibilities out of hand.
I appreciate and applaud Dr. Grande's solution-oriented approach to the potentialities in the treatment of those whom have been written off by so many as "evil to the core" and "damaged beyond repair." I'm confident that the Good Doctor would support my insistence that People are not evil. Thoughts, actions and their effects may be harmful (evil). And, so too with the condition with which a person may be saddled. But the Person is not evil. The Person is every bit a victim of the malady, as well. I see Hope here. And Hope is Huge!
Thank You, Doctor Grande!
Okay, when you started talking about Godzilla, did you edit out your laughter, because I don't think I could've kept it together. Great analogy.
You look good in a flannel shirt Dr. G. You always look good Dr. G and your very intelligent -😳 did I just write that outloud? You are great Dr.G🤗❤
I think that treating narcissism could be more effective by starting with some of the lesser traits. Trying to work on empathy first is moving entirely too fast. For a narcissist in therapy, taking baby steps is vital. By learning about the NPD patient, over time, and getting an idea of how they operate individually, a therapist can begin to notice which traits to tackle first. Frequent interactions with people creates a sort of trust/bond as well as gives tools on which approach is more or less effective. I would recommend finding out what qualities are “positive” about them or less aggressive and start with those first. At the same time, figuring out which NPD traits seem easier to confront that don’t necessarily cause a narcissistic injury.
I love it! And you acknowledge that PEOPLE are individuals, not their labels. I did exactly what you said to start, just because I didn’t want to start hard, so I did intent listening and eye contact, along w not lying, and I thought it would never be normal for me to do this thing I’m forcing, but one day it just started happening without my forcing it and it gave me HOPE!! Seeing your comment also gives me HOPE!!
Treatment options? Where to go? Who to see? What to read? Self Treatment options? This is what would be most helpful. Thank you.
Thank you, Doctor! This video is long overdue. Similarly, I have wondered what kind of progress could be made for people with high neuroticism, autism, or OCPD.
Since neuroticism is a personality trait, it seems like it takes a lot of work to change it, even a little. People get caught in a vicious cycle of negative emotions, for instance, or obsessive compulsive behaviors.
Godzilla=person w/NPD seeking mental health care. Interesting. No stigma there, right? Exploration opportunity abounds! Thank you for another quality episode.
I thought Godzilla was more of a challenge to the DMV employee (compared to an unprepared therapist) but I can’t see any parallel between a narcissist and Godzilla except the unpredictable and powerfully destructive behavior... but maybe I misread. I wonder what y’all have against Godzilla
G0D Z111A
🦖🦖🦖🦖🦖
What made you think that one up!? 💭 All I can see in my mind now, are his massive feet in the doorway of the DMV and flames coming out of his mouth ... Grrrr!🔥
Joking apart, I feel it is important for us to try to sympathise with the narcissist’s younger self and the difficulties they experienced. This gives us some insight into how and why, their personality developed the associated negative qualities and we can, hopefully, then try to better empathise with their maladaptive adult behaviours 🥴
I find this both interesting and challenging,; having been on the receiving end of such negative behaviour and self absorption myself 😑
I really like how you have creatively explained the challenge of treating narcissism Dr G and then fully described the therapeutic process 🤓
Thank you for another unbiased, compassionate talk. Are you counselling in the lumber mill today, wearing your plaid over-shirt; as debuted in your “It’s a Wonderful Life” video,?😍 🙏😃
Some great points made here - very tangible concepts on offer. In my interest in the subject of over five or so years , the prevailing caveat seems to amount to a condition that is largely untreatable. With respect to sociopathy or psychopathy, as it could easily accompany the overall gestalt of the patient, the question naturally arises as to why the patient is there participating in the conversation. The fact that they might be there at all seems to pose possibly 2 main premises:
1- they’ve reached an impasse in their personal life and/or feel compelled to dig deeper
Or
2- they also possess a Machiavellian trait that might compel them to learn and refine any useful information consistent with their approach; be it a potential or otherwise.
Interesting is the thought that recently occurred to me on the Jung based idea of the shadow, namely that we all possess one, and if the journey and realization of it is a matter of deep introspection, might it be fair to say that with respect to narcissism, their shadow may have been the only real part of them left intact while their natural sense of themselves was never allowed to develop?
If the shadow is imagined to be something more or less an inversion of the outward, might that too be something just as damaged in relation to the absence of the real person that for various - but not too complex a set of factors, caused the denial of the potential that is considered the basis of the disorder?
The reason it is good for a narcissist to start with self empathy is because it can be safely assumed that their narcissism originated in attachment trauma. At present they have what I call autogenic narcissistic injury effect. They have been conditioned to denigrate themselves and the rejection of the self puts one into a perpetual crisis. What was done to them by someone else is now something they do to themselves. This produces anger, resentment, depression and outward-focused activities (aggression) intent on displacing the crisis of being which besets them.
Great Godzilla parallel
Any thoughts on vaknin's cold therapy
I would love if you did your opinion for an analysis of Joe from the show "You." It would be so interesting to me to watch.
Great video as usual. So this is DID. What do you think of Vaknins treatment in theory? That to treat the narcissist you approach it as a post traumatic condition with DID, and, use child psychology methods, since you're dealing with a child, essentially. The idea being that you show the child that look: All these years later and you're safe. You haven't been killed. So, you don't need the false self anymore.
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Happy for all the interesting suggestions...🤪🥰😄
Im not a narc but I kbiw a few.. when I got in to this video I was walking down the road and I shouted Yes!!! I love it .
I have done a DIY therapy session with a friend along those line s and sonething clicked after the questions she was asking . But there was a picture of me when I was little child about 4 and sonething clicked a d I had empathy for the lil me and it helped me in the area of being shamed
I’ve watched a lot of your videos and have really enjoyed them. I’m trying to understand the hero/savior complex and wondering if that falls under hero narcissist or covert narcissist. Thanks