Narcissistic Personality Disorder and the "Trail of Destruction"
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- Опубліковано 28 жов 2018
- This video answers the question: What is the string of interpersonal relationship difficulties that we tend to see associated with narcissistic personality disorder. This series of difficulties and relationships associated with narcissistic personality disorder (sometimes we hear this term “trail destruction”) is that individuals with this disorder as well as several other disorders, are more likely to have a number of interpersonal relational difficulties. This term “trail of destruction” is used with NPD, but also borderline personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, substance use disorders, and a variety of other disorders. This so called “trail of destruction” isn't limited to just the relational problems, although we do see a number of failed, strained, and dysfunctional relationships. We also see other types of problems: rejections from individuals, rejections in social situations (like not being via the parties or not being invited to social media groups), rejections with employment (like being fired), and rejections within the family. There's this long series of rejections, failures, and conflicts. Narcissistic personality disorder is a diagnosis in the DSM, but also here in this video I'm going to be talking about NPD as it relates to pathological narcissism. These are two different constructs. One way to express it simply would be that narcissistic personality disorder is largely based on behaviors and mostly covers grandiose narcissism and pathological narcissism is more of a comprehensive view of narcissism, as it includes vulnerable narcissism.
Dad. Overt narcissist. Mom. Covert + borderline traits. I finally broke out of the FOG. Fear. Obligation. Guilt.
I did too not only family but a close friend and her beloved husband. The only word I can think of is INSIDIOUS
I have known well over a dozen serious narcissists over my life and not one of them would EVER think there was something wrong with them that required therapy.
I din.t Gree. People know when they are lying, comitting fraud, gaslighting with whom when and where. Call it for what it is. Simply EVIL.
I believe they know perfectly well what they are doing hence the famous Jekyll and Hyde persona when it suits them. However They may believe they are entitled and justified to behave in this manner.
Because denial is one of the symptoms of the disorder
internal emptiness feelings, interpersonal difficulties, depression, substance abuse disorder etc. is very common for individuals with npd, and that's devastating for anyone to deal with. if they're self-aware enough and have read some psychology they might be aware what is causing these issues.
Is it me or has the diagnosis of NPD gone up by a factor of 10 in the last twenty years?
Thank you Dr Grande. As a self-diagnosed narcissist, your videos have enabled me to become more self-aware and increased my insight into NPD. The trail of destruction from the first 24 years of my life leaves me with a heavy heart, shame and remorse. In retrospect, I must conclude that knowing what I know now, there's no way I would have consciously/willingly acted the way I did.
Please share how you were able to achieve that self-awareness and be able to speak out about it. I think it can encourage other narcissists to admit that they have this condition.
Your probably a borderline. Narcissist never get self awareness
@@9kazcat yeah, or true remorse fort hat matter, i agree that he is most likely a borderline case or has narcissistic tendencies, but its not full on NPD
@@Shannonbarnesdr1 the idea that a narcissist cannot acheive self awareness is internet witch hunting hoo haa. Nonsense. Narcissism is difficult to treat but it is totally possible.
Everyone is somewhat Narcissistic because we have a need to survive and follow desire. However its when these primal needs are left unchecked by ourselves, either directly or indirectly, do we start causing problems.
I think that you are an extremely gifted communicator. I hope you teach, you are an excellent teacher.
He is teaching me for sure and I learned a lot more psychology here than I think I would in a class.
My deepest sympathy for anyone who has been in any kind of relationship with someone with NPD. Maybe especially a romantic relationship. If you're part of the destruction along their trail, you'll carry those scars with you a long damn time. I wish I had been more educated about this disorder during the time I was accepting my punishment from my particular narcissist. Maybe I could have spared myself the needless suffering that still influences me today.
Owh dear Lindsay, This could be my story.. I feel the same! But never give up.💪💪💪 I'm so happy and thankful that so many young people are so wise these days.. Still learning a lot. Hopefully we get whole again some day! Because we are, but have to only trust and accept that in mind body and soul. 💖
OMG. It was the worst feeling ever. I Will never recover. I don't ever wanna be in another relationship ever.
Lindsay Antwine - I suffer from vampires by proxy.
I always thought I kept being around sadistic people. I wish I had known what it really was a lot sooner and saved myself and my life from the pain and abuse.
All that matters is that you know NOW and you can begin your healing journey.
Projection. This makes perfect sense. My ex would drunkenly berate me by calling me a drunk lunatic. I don’t drink. He would later say, “I’m sorry for my part” and expect me to do the same. As if I was just as culpable.
Thank you for talking so much about narcissism. It is the worst! My ex was a malignant narcissist and he destroyed our family and damaged my daughters. I was damaged too, but I am recovering.
Me too.
It’s amazing to realize these people live among us. It breaks my heart.
My ex narc said to me "Why is everything always a competition" when I said something about myself. He felt that he was the only one who could talk about himself and if I said anything about myself, I was in competition with him, or so he accused me of being. So I was never supposed to say anything about myself to him.
Yes!!! The Narcissist is ALWAYS competing! They will absolutely keep ratcheting up the conversation to the point where you can only walk away! No matter the topic of conversation (or disagreement), it ALWAYS winds back to them, how wonderful they are (or whatever), and how miserably inadequate you are. No one in the world has experienced/endured what they have, and it is your fault! LOL, my mother, the Human Woodchipper!!!🤯
He said, "Omg! Not everything is about YOU! I replied, You're right! Because everything is about YOU!"
oddly specific memory unlocked
I have broke off with my husband of twelve years. He is at the age 64 and showing signs of dementia. Cannot tolerate his nasty behavior and lies. I stayed way too long. Built a cocoon around myself and have finally broke out of the web. We have been separated for two moths. I blocked his calls. The lat time I stopped at the house, he pushed me when I was running from him and I fell and broke my leg.
OMG!!! Anna, that is terrible! I have a hunch you have not seen him since (I pray)! Hope your leg has healed.
Congrats Anna never feel bad for choosing to be happy yourself!
Will you ever forgive him?
With having a malignant narc, I started out strong minded, but the narc took my self esteem and shredded it. I am back now. It takes time.
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent” - Eleanor Roosevelt
@@Holly-Berry yes, you actually can. Wtf
How long does it take? I need some hope 🙈
Yes, it takes time, & a lot of Therapy and Prayer. 🙏
@@philima Pray for God to heal your heart. God knit us tenderly and thought of creating us even before He created the universe. Go do beautiful things and tell yourself good things which are true about yourself- you have capacity to feel emotions, you can have deep meaningful relationships with people, you are normal, you care about others. So you are a good human being. Be well. Healing comes sooner than you think but we must also work on it daily giving ourselves grace and tender affirmations. I know how it feels. Everyday I ask myself this same question and if I’ve made small progress daily then that’s success! Be well. 🤗
If you compared what my ex said about me in an affidavit to what came out in HIS psych eval...match over and over again. Unbelievable amount of projection. Seeing the psych eval in black and white was honestly kind of horrifying. The man is truly not connected to reality. I've accepted it now, but it really was horrifying to find out I had a child with someone like this. It's sad too.
Projection is huge with them for sure! My ex's best friend's wife wrote me a nasty email when I found out they were having an affair, accusing me of everything THEY do! It would have been funny if it wasn't so...as you put it...horrifying!
He ran off with her and broke her teeth out before she ran off with another man. All the while alienating our daughter from me. Now he has custody is messing with our teenage daughters head and she chooses to live with him 😭
Same here, I knew or rather know what's going to happen by him accusing me of that ahead of time. 💀 I wish a psych eval was obligatory here...I hope my kid will not go through the same crap as me. Living nightmare.
surprised this comment was not liked / acknowledged by the author of this clinical description. Because it connects personal experience with the more dry clinical overview and provides a needed well rounded view of this disorder, disturbance.
Dr. Todd Grande,
You're educating people worldwide about mental health issues. I always appreciate!
NPD's projections are really how they feel about themselves; at some point I just give the dynamics of it all to God because I become dead or callous to the abuser.
As for narcissists my opinion is they only seek help when they run out of money. Their money, your money, my money... their invalid mother's money...their kid's reserved future-inheritance from that invalid grandmother's money...the money saved for their other child's university.. my mom covered all the bases but looks good for 76 and so....she'll never run out of money thus never get help. She just might find YOUR father so beware..she has 3 inch heels,long dyed blond hair and fake-tanned skin..yes...at 76...tell your fathers to walk away. I can't tell you her name because she goes by too many.
well said !!
It needs to be called out for what it is and that is simply evil. As a christian I believe it is a spiritual issue. LUCIFER was not abused NEITHER were you. You chose the path of good.
nah that's psychopaths
@@miraclesforus2 but definition of being good and what can be excused is up to individual personalities, disorders, enviroment that you were raised in...
remember, basically nobody openly admits they do evil things, that happens only in movies (and not the good ones)
Dr. Grande - You're gentle, dedicated, extremely well informed, thoughtful about how you say what you say, and optimistic that the Narcissist can be assisted to see that their behaviour "might" have resulted in "some" of their relational problems.. Good luck to you. I don't know whether you've been in an intimate relationship with one of them; I have and it was so ruinous that I know I'd never have the patience required with any Narcissist, nor, frankly, although I have followed your video here very carefully, can I personally share your optimism. I'm not saying you'd be doomed to failure, but I would be amazed if even with all your patience and gentleness, you were to achieve much success. As you say, they are likely to back slide. To use the vernacular, unless you happen to be working wit a Narcissist who is determined to discover and make some major changes - a rare bird indeed - in my opinion the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.
You've honestly been more helpful than all the therapists I've ever seen.
Helps that I can pick and choose what I want to learn. And that you don't have to deal with my manipulation and hostility. And it's free.
Life sucks. But this helps. Really does. Thanks.
The weight of the trail of destruction can force someone to reevaluate
. That is a very powerful statement. It doesn't accuse or excuse. If I were in an NPD shoes oh, that would be the most benign way of expressing their need to self- evaluate. Your videos are becoming deeper and more interesting and probably more effective than ever from where I stand
Thank you Dr. Todd. always worth watching !
Hi Dr Grande. Just want you to know that I have been binge watching your shows for a while now and I am very thankful to hear your words. Please keep it up!
Isn't the idea of the narcissist gaining insight, making an appeal to logic, and seeking therapy a hopeful trap that prolongs the ambivalence of their victims' decision whether to stay and wait for the miracle instead of saving themselves by leaving? Because I can't imagine in my wildest machinations the narc I was with having any insight other than his victimization perspective. In fact I would think the only narcissists that might be able to want self-help would be the young ones. Everything I've researched suggests they get worse with age. Thank you Dr. Grande!
I feel like my ex was close once...when confronted with a diary written by his deceased girlfriend (who died as an indirect result of his physical abuse in back surgery). He walked around like a zombie for a few days. But then he started an abuse campaign against me with such fury as never was seen before! He seemed convinced that I was cheating (he was, not me) and that I was faking illness (I have severe genetic illness proven with blood tests).
I realized he could never accept the truth because that would make him just as bad as the boss he said divorced his wife who had cancer (he really talked badly about him, yet he basically did the same and much worse to me). It frightens me to think what he must have done to the poor woman before me! All I was able to find was a report of domestic violence that she dropped before her surgery.
I hope I don't get worse, I am a human being. Heard that a plant based diet can help but I don't think it is working fast enough, may need to add more dark leafy greens.
@@godemperormeow8591 You need to work on your self esteem if you want to get less narcissistic, also you need to try and do the opposite of as many npd symptoms as possible.
Yes, they DO get worse with age! Like my 91 year old Mother, The Human Woodchipper.
That's an incredible story Alicia.
Looking at the DSM, my abusive (and deceased) mother seems to meet the criteria for both NPD and Schizoid personality disorder. She felt she (and myself) were so high above everyone else, she disdained human contact with almost everyone (except her golden child, me). I would love your thoughts on this combination of personality disorders. Love your channel, thanks!!
The weight of the trail of destruction can force someone to reevaluate….
My covert Narcissistic sister had such a moment of clarity and I hoped for her to take that revelation to the next step; however, it was a pipe dream. She re-entrenched herself deeper into her narcissistic behavior, and actually became much worse to the point. I cut off all contact with her. It was really not even the rages that got me, but it was her lies. Narcissists are the biggest liars on the planet.
Thank you for all insites. I really like your channel very much because it concerns neutral knowledge. And that gives me peace of mind refocusing on me, after a lot of narcissistic abuse. Thank you!"
Sharing your deep knowledge and understanding on all of these incredibly complicated subjects, is such an enormous gift you're giving to us all!! Thank you so very much, Dr. Grande!!
The moment of realization after achieving insight is one of the most difficult things you can experience.
Imagine having your entire worldview and perception of reality being challenged and not being able to comprehend why
Thank you for your time.
👍🏻 Dr. Grande. I have noticed that logic in certain instances kept person with NPD calm and out of the negative thoughts.
"Appeal to logic." Great!
Scattered Thoughts...My narcissist loves Spinoza as his favourite philosopher, I reminded him of Spinoza's entire book of ethics & logic to appeal to his logical side. I did not succeed as he has compartmentalized his ideals from his behaviours. A painful & shocking disconnect to witness,....the denial is very strong.
People with certain personality disorders do everything they can to avoid logic and rationality. Especially NPD's! They destroy anyone whom they can suck in. And not one of their hairs is out of place during or after the massacre! They do end up as human shells, sans souls.
This guy is brilliant.
So in essence, we can still treat people with NPD? This is a notion I've never really thought about until I've encountered your video. It's quite an eye opener.
You've said it's unrealistic to expect change and I never could, but I still like it when you stay positive, as you do.
My wife, once she slips into her psychotic state, completely denies there's anything wrong with her, uses black and white thinking, (like she literally says, "There's only black or white, good or evil, love or hate."), claims to be intellectually superior to me and pretty much everyone else, rationalizes her behavior (says that since God didn't stop her in her tracks, then He must approve of her behavior), and also projects her behavior on to me, usually at the exact moment that she's doing whatever she's projecting. Like if she's caught in a lie, then she calls me a liar, if she's falsely accusing me of something, then I'm always accusing her of things, etc.
I've lost 2 friends in the last week. I'm a pathological narcissist, although according to my shrink, I don't meet the full criteria of NPD. If it makes anyone here who's been victimized by a person with NPD feel better, it is not fun being a pathological narcissist with borderline traits.
Look into Dr Joe Dispenza "breaking the habit of being yourself" book and meditation. It will give you hope. The first step was to acknowledge and be aware what your issue is, now, with that book you can eliminate the ptoblem for good. You can do it! Yes you can!
chaostheory16 you know about ur disorder. You have a chance to modify and help yourself. All the best with ur therapy . My prayers!!
I like that your videos have an element of optimism and empathy, even when discussing personality disorders. I feel most people think they aren’t treatable and that people that are diagnosed can’t change/improve and aren’t human beings with feelings (especially true for NPD). I’m recovering from narcissistic abuse and although I can see why leaving the relationship was the right thing for me to do, I also like to think there is hope for my ex and that he isn’t all bad and rotten to the core.
AM P He is not all bad and rotten to the core and I would wager a lot that YOU never said he was. He said that you saw him as all bad is my guess. That is projection so that he did not have to view you as his equal and work out a problem. Leave him in Gods hands, it’s too much for mere mortals to deal with in close relationship. He needs God and a therapist but chances are him and God are gonna wing this.
@@suzannethompson4157 now YOU are really projecting... read her comment again
👍💕Thank you. I am the magnet for narcissists and in counselling for rewiring the survival brain. Your explanations are so helpful and I will look for your book.
My soon to be ex liked to remark how it was "Flirting with Disaster". I eventually confirmed indeed that was totally true & firmy agreed he IS a disaster. So glad I'm out of there.
So it looks harder to cure NPD than addiction and the outcome is uncertain. My guess is with the time they will go back to their old ways again because their low awareness and fragile “self”. The change will always be temporary. If they manage to change at all.
NPD is related to a structural brain difference. My impression is that people with NPD would love to be able to cure themselves - but can't.
Angelina WMG Souren maybe but if they have some awareness and because it causes them problems. Not because they realise how hurtful to the others is their behaviour. It’s again Paragraph 22 because they are driven from their selfishness.
Angelina WMG Souren That’s just it, they want to do it all by themself. They will not accept any help or input from others. An alcoholic can maybe stop drinking by themselves but they cannot cure the disease alone. A narcissist is far less able to go it alone than an addict.
Thank you for this video Dr Grande. Many of the videos on your page have been very helpful in my recovery from the abuse I suffered at the hands of my now ex-wife. Path of destruction describes it very well. She left me mentally, emotionally and financially devastated while she moved on to her next victim in only a matter of months. She has been divorced 3 times now, fired from a very good job for what I believe was a failed drug test, and financially she has nothing to show for her life at nearly 50 years of age. I have come to find out that this is the same pattern she followed with her 2 previous husbands. She will most likely continue to follow the same pattern because in her mind everything that happens is always someone else's fault or responsibility. Through much reading over the last 2 years as well as countless UA-cam videos, many from you, I feel that she has traits of both a narcissist and a psychopath. I admit I don't have the educational background to make that diagnosis but there are a lot of things that would fit in those 2 categories. Sadly, she is actually a medical professional. I honestly have come to believe that she has the job she does because she gets a certain satisfaction out of other peoples pain and suffering. She certainly enjoyed my pain. Thank you again for you page.
You are an excellent therapist
Path of destruction is exactly what my Ex leaves. She is a GOD damn wrecking ball. She is pathological and she knows exactly what she is doing... The destruction had already been done long before I got her out of my house. I just didn't know how bad it was until after she was gone. These creatures should come with a warning label!
Seriously, she is far worse and dangerous to society as almost any sex offender. Since she has been gone 2 of her ex husbands... I only knew about one, came to my house to tell em their horror stories. She has been doing it and perfecting this skill set all her life. She is a little (105 pounds), cute, blond 52 years old with a 25 year old body. She finds a HOST man to fall in love with her with love bombing, mirroring and all the narcissistic traits and tactics. Get the HOST to trust her while she has a harem of men on the side.
Now she is older I have no doubt she will kill or have someone kill the next HOST older man yet. Than inherit everything he owned. Extremely dangerous con artist!
Think of the bright side. Some guy might realize she's cheating on him and kill her!
HeavyMetalPedal - You are lucky to have the smarts to not be with her. Stay that smart and be with a normal girl - no love bombing, mirroring, or craziness. Remember - no drama is key.
When you meet someone, the physical attractiveness should give you a clue. Lol. He/She could be a walking, talking narc ready to play the mind games with anyone who falls for the good looks. Red flags!! In my opinion, you have to wait at least two years before you fully commit to a relationship. Meanwhile, be vigilant to what you see and hear. Anytime that person could unknowingly drop the mask and show you something ugly which you want no part of again, if you are sane. I don't trust people like I did before. I have to be shown proof of authenticity. That's my reality now. Not about to get duped again if I can help it.
i really enjoyed this video, thank you.
Thank You, Dr. Grande. Your videos on Narcissism have helped me in dealing with my Bi-Polar Narcissistic Mother, the Human Woodchipper! I've had to put distance between us for survival purposes. And, I speak with her via phone 2-3 times a month (that's all I can handle!). Again, thank you. I have armed myself with valuable tools thanks to you❣
Thank you for your insight and Cal explanation of an explosive disorder
I'm pretty sure I have NPD and honestly watching this made me tear up.
I think something a lot of people don't realize with people with NPD is that we were never born wanting to be this way. It's not like I chose to be put through abuse. It's not like I knew how abuse from when I was 15 years old would ruin my entire life.
But thankfully I'm gonna be continuing therapy soon, and I just want this illness to be handled. I'm tired of pushing the people closest to me away because of my sense of entitlement and insecurity. I just want to be happy like everybody else.
Normally I don’t excuse narcissist for their personality, but in the end it’s just a coping mechanism. I hope you get better
I really enjoy your videos. Extremely educational . Thanks Doc!
Humble insight with logical analysis of the destruction of relationships and numerous conflicts might make it possible for the person with NPD to awaken and seek therapy.
Very well explained!!
Thank you!
I call it "the path of glory" unfortunately i am both a victim of my family of origin's trail and have one of my own strewn with dry bones.
Took a long time to care enuf to look back over my shoulder to see that i had gone from victim to perpetrator at which point i began to change. I took the help i needed as I could not have done it on my own, completely.
As I continue to gain better self-awareness I am offered glimpses, not by my own choosing necessarily,of my behavior in the past. Episodes in my life and I think to myself how could I have said that not heard what this person was saying or done this or that. I was an expert at running around ripping peoples masks off which is not a good thing to do if you want to win friends and influence people and so on and so on🙄
Excellent sensitively presented Dr. Grande
Hello Dr Grande, Always listening to your great videos with a lot of interest. I have a request please which is not connected particularly to this video. Could you please or are you interested in making a video about the effect of a diet (for example the ketogenic diet) on the psychological mind of let's say somebody who is depressed ? Maybe there is Something interesting to say about it ? Thank you.
In my experience the symptoms are ALWAYS active!
Same here!
But there are times when they “seem normal” at least in my experience there were. The times when he would seemingly return to his normal self and I would breathe a huge sigh of relief. It was if his mind would go into the Bermuda Triangle for a while and then suddenly return. I now know this was manipulation, I don’t think he was aware of it though. I think it would be more accurate to say the false self is always active.
Even as they age, they devolve. They lose the unique energy of youth they once had, and seem to wither away. They lose THEIR personalities in the end and you can see the real shell that they always were. They were able to cover it up at first, but time and age ravish their front and expose them for what they really were - a fake real person. They misled you at first, but they age out of that ability.
@@nancyayers6355 sounds likely...pathetic soulless creature.
@@nancyayers6355 so in ur point of view they should all kill them selves?
Always excellent content, I thank you greatly!
My NPD ex once told me that life hasn’t gone the way he planned it. I think he realizes a lot of his choices were the cause of a lot of his current pain and loneliness. He’s the smartest person I’ve ever met but extremely lacking in self awareness. He once told me “just because you lost doesn’t mean that the strategy was wrong.” There’s truth in that but I feel like that how he sees his life.
This gives me a hope that some persons what were disproportionally mean to me eventually will get to more balanced view, and, of course, some 'I'm sorry' or at least sincere closure would heal some nasty wounds.
As they say in Spanish, you better wait sitting down.
Thank you, doctor Grande. Your video gave me a revelation as to how to deal with my father. I worry about my little sister who still has contact with him. This video helped me as to how I best deal with NPD and how to make things better.
Dr. Grande, i do tend to get into arguments with people online more than i'd like to. it seems to always be when a personal boundary violation occurs, and i do tend to keep my guard up with people for precisely that reason. i do try to end arguments quickly, either through conflict resolution, or denying the person the ability to continue the argument with me. i prefer conflict resolution, and even better yet i'd rather not argue, civil discourse is prefered.
whoa! The mention of rogerian theory (argument -- conflict resolution) methods alone makes this video worth the watch -- but it's excellent all-around... If I had taken a Rogerian attitude all along, I probably could have avoided being targeted for abuse so much.
Very good explanation. I found particularly interesting the approach towards NPD treatment- the use of logic instead of blame/taking personal responsibility. That makes a lot sense.
Thank you Dr. Grande:)
Rejane, I noticed one of your replies was automatically sent to the review bin (due to a link to my podcast). I approved it as soon as I saw it there. I wanted to let you know that I set it so that your comments are now always automatically approved, so that shouldn't happen again. Thanks for your support :)
Oh I see. On my end there was no notification regarding this, so I had no idea it wasn’t approved until now. In any case thank you for approving my comments, that’s much appreciated.
Absolutely, you can always count on my support! 😉
I don't think logic works with narcissists. They twist everything around to suit themselves. I wasn't allowed to talk to any other women, because that would be unfair and make her insecure... fair enough. But, it was fine for her to chat with numerous guys behind my back because they were just 'friends'... friends that I had never heard of or met and if I questioned her, I wouldn't be given any explanation who they were..I would just be blamed for being paranoid, insecure and jealous, and then blocked because she didn't want to be with someone so untrusting...wtf! That is narcissist logic. Double standards, gaslighting, denial, projection etc
@@simjam1980 Double standards in everything!😏
This was very helpful. Thank you
Love love love your content and insight Dr. Grande! Can you review the movie Krisha and cover Benzo and alcohol addiction? This movie describes my mother's behavior. She was a nurse and covered this addiction behavior up well. Do they have blackouts? She never seemed to recall afterwards why I was upset with her behavior as a child. Thank you!!!
thank you thank you!!! It will always be difficult as a victim to feel empathy. But I can try.
Thank you for your insight, Dr. Grande.
I am a recently self-diagnosed narcissist as well. I became one because of decades of maladjustment & zero self-esteem + dangerous co-dependency drove me to jump off the bridge one day, but by some divine intervention I decided - NO, this is NOT how my story ends.
And today my confidence, drive and passion has inspired so many people to lead better, healthy lives that they made me a community leader.
Moreover, reaching this place in my psyche made me aware of so many generational curses plaguing our family which I have vowed to end with me.
No, I don't feel emotion - that part of my brain died a long time ago, instead I make a conscious choice each and every time to be more compassionate, loving, respectful and reliable to the people I care about and put myself out there to meet new people as much as I can.
And yes, I still get urges to jump out of the window or to lash out and take my anger and hatred out on the world which treated me so unfairly - the trauma takes time to leave.
But since there is now a circle of people around me who rely on me and care about me in some way or the other - that makes the whole journey worth it.
Hi you mentioned you don’t feel emotions, but the stated that you still experience anger, so it’s safe to assume that you do experience emotions, yes?
If they go to therapy doesn't it help the narcissist to "look" more ......normal! It gives them more ideas on how to act and get away with more and more!
Yes, Ann! In many cases, this does happen! My mother had 2 years of therapy which only gave her MORE twisted ammunition. My Mother, The Human Woodchipper!
The most difficult person I've ever known was us kid's mother. She carried a great deal of guilt for her failures in life, suicide attempts, etc., and insisted on projecting it on us kids throughout our relationships. When a teen, I was the only child who would confront her directly about her problems, so I was her #1 scapegoat, to the point she insisted that I see a counselor, with her and our father. After several twice-a-week meetings, the counselor dismissed me from a session to discuss with my parents in private. After about 45 minutes, my parents came storming out of the office, my mother visibly clenching her teeth. Many years later, my father said the counselor suggested that I needed space, and my mother needed additional counseling. Of course, that was the last session for her. She only worsened with age.
I am blessed to be in the care of a master practitioner who has brought me to sanity.....
Do you have NPD? What is your treatment like?
Wilwen A
How funny, I assumed honestsage was the victim of a pathological narcissist, now i’m curious.
As the mother of a NPD sufferer it gets trying. My daughter generally has been functional at work but not so at home when she is in stress situations. HER TRAIL OF DESTRUCTION has resulted in problems for her children now. SHe is recognizing she has caused all three children different types of grief and symptomolgy from diagnosed OCD in one to other syptoms in the other two. SHe was a highly successful military officer recently retired and she was underground with her syptoms at work I am sure. SHe was able to manipulate superior officers who treated her like a surrogate daughter when she was younger and she rose in rank rapidly. Her family was her supply. Now out of the military no one is impressed by her rank, no one thinks she is special and it is causing her great pain to be a mere civilian like everyone else. IT also,has put her in an inferior position with her husband who now has rank over her in her mind. SHe is flying apart.....and being stuck inside with COVID having to be just a Mom and housewife she quickly found demeaning....so she is flying around visiting old military friends...she cant bear not feeling special and high ranking. SO she has grandiosity too when under stress. It is her armor. I hope the husband she has can manage to stick it out with her bec. she likely would never find another willing to put up with her.....sad, I have tried to get her into therapy first at 16 when I realized what was going on...she quit after a few sessions and refused to go back and now she is so defensive I doubt she will go but I will make one last ditch effort. I moved abroad 20 yrs ago to get away from the Christmases, Thanksgivings, birthdays and excessive demands that I take her children off her hands. THey have only visited us once and thankfully hated the place so she stopped demanding I take her oldest who was fathered in a prior marriage every summer. I have escaped her reach happily , but her children have not, one is grown and having a tough go getting started in life. Her next is a high school senior who has OCD. And the third I am sure, is also having problems. HEr husband stayed with her because she lifted him out of a working class background where money was tight and jobs insecure but now soon surpassing her retirement income, he is likely realizing he doesnt need or want the daily drama hanging over him like a cloud. SAd and preventable had she been willing. To have therapy.
To change this kind of behavior a person has to understand and feel the pain they have inflicted on others. If that actually happened they are, at their core, far too weak to face that reality and would commit suicide. Even with my family members I have to say thats sad, and at the same time, so be it.
F--kin A
Yeah, that's why I gave up completely on my ex. I was afraid our children were the same, and they are indeed troubled, but my oldest two are starting to come around, and at their young age I feel they do still have hope and perhaps do not have the full-blown disorders their father has.
@nxenci something that helps me... remembering they have a mental illness. If it was brain cancer causing the cruelty would I still be angry and take it personally? This is no different.
Yeah, I have a family member whomay be an NPD (he preferred having a disconnect with his son and grandchildren, just so that he would never set foot in a mental health professional clinic, this is after his son told him to pick the professional and that the son would pay, the sole condition is that the professional need to be licensed), and projection is his forte. He didn't invite a portion of his family for years to any events. They did, until they got tired of having a one sided relationship, and when they confrontrd him on it, he said that they never made him feel welcomed, that whatever he does it's none of their business, and THEY were the ones who were not being good hosts. The disconnect is complete, and he still blames the other group. When I have asked him why would they invite him, when he hasn't invited them, for years, it was completely ignored. When I suggested that he invited them, just once, he simply stated that it's not on the table. And that's that. But they should always ask him to come to their events. Well, guess what? They didn't.
I think this perfectly describes Gregg “Opie” Hughes.
Religiosity, can it promote narcissism?
Can it nurture/ induce/ produce narcissism?
One influence type being: (my religion is the true religion, therefore I'm right and it's the others that are wrong . ultimately I'm special over and above others. I'm more good. I can't be wrong)
Hmm, I can see where you come from in that question... it should be the opposite. For example Christians try to imitate Christ qualities, love being the biggest one. Love upbrings you in many ways, one bieng that love doesnt make you feel superior to others. If a person feels that everyone is wrong, and judges everyone, I think thats something else. They might be fooling themselves using religion as an justification or excuse, which can place a bad name on the individuals that truly try to live accordingly to what they learn.
Misuse and twisting of Faith is definitely used. The mother's misuse of scripture to put herself in the role of God or demigod instead of the actual belief in being a loving mother.
OMG!! Religiosity!! Husband of six years. Nailed him!!
Worship of science is also a religion and so is radical atheism. The so called woke liberals are the most intolerant abusive bigots who do not tolerate anyone or anything that defers from their marxist indoctrinated worldview
The ego is fragile, it's easily disturbed, all you have to find is the right key and anyone's ego can be shattered. It's a feature of being human.
Thank you...interesting🤗🙏
You're welcome!
As much as I feel that my mother’s NPD symptoms “may” have not really gotten started until her adulthood and as much as I’d like to address her issues in as helpful and non-judgmental form as I’d like and I don’t like to give up on a person, especially, someone I dearly love and who’s value I am very cognizant of, I don’t think she’s a candidate for help and healing. It could be because she’s now 75, soon to be 76, there are likely co-morbid issues, which cross the clusters, plus a bit of dementia and, although I’m basically not in contact with her, I believe she is speedily worsening, I just don’t think she can be helped. She, most certainly, feels that the ticket to making things what she feels they should be, is my sister and I hurling ourselves the bus, while she does as she pleases, including proactively destroy us. The only difference, is that my sister doesn’t know it yet, because she doesn’t want to realize that, in my absence, she’s now being targeted by a nut job.
Could vulnerable narcissism be confused for PTSD in a clinical setting?
Great insight!
Trail of destruction Yes. But it goes way beyond a clinical analogy. It is spiritual too
What do you meant by spiritual?
Dr Grande, could you please discuss the relationship between NPD and dementia? My mother has early stage dementia and Alzheimer's and she is an overt pathological narcissist. Thank you 😊
thank you for your clear explanations, its very helpful. i have a question actually, i am trying to understand a severely violent event with my ex who i quit because of this episode but i believe he's an extreme narcissist i thought psychopath but the videos helped me to distinguish the difference. and so my question is, because in many videos it seems ppl express narcissists to willingly want to cause harm, do you think that they can just do terrible things because their ego protection was just attacked? i feel my ex didn't want to hurt me, i just think he's so incredibly sick and as soon as his ego got touched he freaked out, i think he has intermittent explosive disorder as well.
He does what he wants to do and doesn't care if he hurts you. Don't make excuses for him.
I think the person who can answer your questions is Dr. Sam Vaknin. His videos on UA-cam about Narcissistic Personality Order are amazing!!! (And yes, Dr. Grande, yours are good too!)
I am in process of leaving narcissist. Nothing was ever his fault. When he made mistakes, I had to fear an outpouring of gaslighting and silent rage. I pray for a sense of peace I haven't felt in a long time.
You've made a good decision. My advice is to go no contact. Best wishes. Know that there are many of us out here.
Thanks…enlightening presentation. Another reason to enter into therapy , it could turn out to be a source of supply as well.
My mom had npd. She would never consider therapy. I had years of it.
Cognitive therapy helped and so did gestalt.
Could you please make a video discussing the two therapies; cbt and dbt, when and how they are appropriately applied? Thank you.
I agree on so many points -- that an appeal to logic which can lead to positive change and expecting slow but gradual process is a good path. I also agree that it's important to take a non judgmental stance and to not use shame or blame.
The questions I have though concerns the victims of narcissistic abuse within a family unit. Isn’t part of healing the harm that is done to others about radical acceptance? If it is possible to heal this family of these dysfunctional and harmful behaviors -- doesn't there need to be some level of accepting accountability by the person who has caused this harm? What’s to stop them from hurting these family members in the exact same way?
Also, aren’t the victims of the abuse going to feel invalidated if the person who was abusive never accepts any accountability for their behavior and never takes responsibility for the harm they caused?
I get the impression that whether someone is being held responsible for the harm they have done depends greatly on whether this was done "on purpose" or if the person who has NPD or pathological narcissism could have prevented themselves from causing others' harm -- and I can understand this certainly... but it's kind of like when someone drinks excessively and maybe there is some deep-seated reason for why they drink and perhaps there are extenuating circumstances for why they may drink and drive -- but if they end up hitting a pedestrian when they are drunk driving, then that victim probably isn't going to be okay with the person who ran them over being consoled and told that it isn't their fault really. Similarly, if someone commits involuntary manslaughter -- sure, it's "involuntary" and an accident -- that person didn't set out to murder someone, but it is still punishable under the law. For both the drunk driver and the person committing involuntary manslaughter -- there may have been a long list of environmental factors which contributed to their behaviors that endangered others -- but even so, there has to be some way of holding others accountable for reckless endangerment. Narcissistic abuse is reckless endangerment as well -- it just doesn't involve actual murder and usually doesn't involve physical injury -- but the pain is very real. Abuse is never okay and at some level, the abusive behavior was something that someone chose to do -- just like drinking excessively was a choice.
But even if someone were to suppose that the person with NPD did not make conscious choices to harm others in their lives -- how would a family of someone with NPD and those who the NPD person had terrorized (whether intentionally or not) heal if the person who caused them harm does not accept accountability or responsibility for their behavior? Is it then important for the whole family to learn Rogerian theory in order to survive any contact with the close family member with NPD? Won't they end up feeling as if they need to continue to walk on eggshells if the person with NPD is never able to accept accountability or responsibility for their actions and if egregious incidents of abuse are either not talked about or whitewashed?
great video, although I think there's too much sympathy for NPD, considering they're adults
Thank you 😊. I like your videos, can you please make a video about sociopaths narcissist??? Please
Or just Anti Social NPD.
I have a sibling that is a narcissist, always knows more than anyone and is never wrong. He also told me that he is more loved and valued by our parents due to being male and first born!!! One time he told me that I thought that since I could not take a prescription drug (due to allergic reaction) that I thought no one should be able to take the drug. Surprised I told his no I don't think that, he raised his voice slightly and said yes you do. I again said no I don't think that, he raised his voice further and said Yes You Do. Again I said no I don't think that, he raised his voice further ( almost yelling) and said YES YOU DO!! I had to walk away. You cannot have a conversation much less a relationship with anyone who wants to tell you what you think and if you say no I don't think that will argue that you are wrong.
A narc will NEVER be held accountable. EVER! RUN!
Dr. Grande, is it true that Narcissistic personality disorder is not going to be in he DSMV anymore? This can't leave the DSMV. This is a real disorder and very destructive.
My soon-to-be ex-wife has been like a monster as far as I am concerned. She would literally start an argument and yell almost anything. Looking back, I can't believe that I hanged in with her as long as I did. I just wanted to be happy with her and to just love her, but it seemed like she could not be happy and maybe she can't truly love. One day I stumbled across a note or journal entry she wrote in a binder. In it she said that she was with me for financial reasons, not love. And even though this was pretty consistent with how she would treat me, it was hard to see in writing. I am very glad I woke up, filed for divorce, and served her. I am looking forward to being at peace and free from abuse. I don't think I will ever get married again. Just not worth it. I feel completely betrayed, but I am glad that I finally woke up.
After looking at this for years now, the problem with people everyone is so interested in figuring out all have dark triad traits but could have any personality disorder. So what we needed to understand is their psychological warfare, their grift. What’s good for me is bad for thee is a big tactic they use. Another huge tactic they use that I don’t hear much about is your angry at them and they drop something about somebody so you take all your anger for everything out on that other person. Once they see they spent your anger they know your no longer mad at what they did and act like you worked through it but it never gets dealt with. A classic example of this is your boyfriend cheats then says it was the woman he cheated with fault and you take it out on the other woman for breaking up your relationship. I had a narc friend that could walk into a public place, anywhere really and get people to get into a fight. Her husband falls for this tactic all the time is the one who noticed this. I ended the friendship soon after. Which by the way if you have a stalker version of these people, they keep showing up, calling ask them for money-they will ghost you for a while then come back and refuse to talk to them. If you end the friendship because of a friend you lost or something they did to somebody else they will use it to go after that person. It’s better for everyone involved for your monster to think you ended it for a shallow reason like money. If you think the one you stopped talking to is the only monster and your getting harassed there is more than one monster.
Dr. I wish I could afford therapy. However, giving up is not an option when you are 51. There must be a healthy way to grow out of being victim of abuse for such a long time. To me faith in God's council, NOT RELIGION, which always appeals to common sense, has been helpful during these three last and long years. I found your channel, among others, very helpful at least that I have been able to be aware of my wrong pattern of thoughts.
Although it has never been in my heart to harm anyone, my defense mechanism always was just that a defense and end up harming others in a passive-agressive way mechanism; always operating in that mode. I assume that in a social level is noticeable and I fall in the trap because the lack of boundaries, the out-of-guilt generosity I try to project, etc.
I have much appreciation for your channel, among other channels I've found, and I really pray to improve one step at a time.
Thank you.
Dr that was wonderful. However, I was wondering if you know of any help for people who suffer under shadowy layers of group narcissists. My thought scenario is like this; An 18 year old who has just lost the parent who was not the narcissist to some tragedy. But, that young person is left under layer upon layer of associates who are extreme narcissists. This 18 year old can’t just walk away from the more narcissist parent (without enormous social criticism) as they pretend to grieve. So there are many layers of older more authoritarian narcissists left to hound and harass this kid. (Let’s pretend they live in an east coast fishing village.) what would you advise that harried, harassed and grieving kid to do with their feelings? How do they escape narcissistic public opinion that only supports people who have no higher social intelligence?
Yes, there is the possibility for recovery; even if it takes many years; this contrary to the current popular belief that there is no hope. Not suggesting that there is not legitimate suffering to exposed parties, yet what is also concerning is how it seems that those who view themselves as victims of narcissistic abuse, are being retraumatised through online discussions. Could repeated retraumatisation lead to secondary trauma-bonding and Stockholm syndrome type symptoms connected to others who are supposedly helping?
I'm careless love solitude and i sleep like a bear 😪😪
My life has been destroyed by a narcissist and hes totally clueless. Must be nice.
Yes and no..... To go through life with no empathy at all is surely a disability, even if they don't realize that....
as a narcissist i can confirm it is not indeed nice
@@panda-vy9ii that gives some hope at least...doesn't change the victims life though, sadly
I wonder what consequences the narcissist’s hoped-for “movement of realisation” might have for his or her victims? And just how “normal” the narcissist can become if therapy works? Bearing in mind how awful narcissistic abuse can be for the victim, surely any normal person realising what the pain they’d caused would be full of contrition?
I have no idea why the narc I know would feel insecure and fragile inside. He is a very hot looking man and very knowledgeable and smart, and i have to admit these because he indeed is.
Some weeks ago he kinda admitted he had anxiety which i interpreted as insecurity and l wondered why he would feel anxious over anything when he's so above everyone else, so perfect (as he keeps suggesting about himself - so, in indirect manner he would suggest just how great he is).
He has the traits of ASPD (like 90%), and as well NPD and borderline. In fact, the first time I engaged with him I already suspected borderline, but the more I knew him, the more he behaved ASPD-ish. he's not officially diagnosed because he refused to deal with his issues, thinking he has no issues, he knows he has temper, but other abnormal traits such as zero empathy, abnormally cold hearted, he doesn't recognize and thinks it's completely normal. when i told him to get himself checked he said, "you pay?"
He also said he suffers from DID (multiple personality disorder). I also suspect that besides suffering from ASPD, NPD, BPD (i do not know if these disorders can exist together but he does display the traits of all 3, and ASPD being dominant), and DID, I think he also suffers from Intermittent Explosive Disorder.
He can get mad even by very very trivial things, he's basically super abnormal.
I've never ever met anyone as difficult as he is, ever. He's very very difficult to deal with. I've met difficult individuals, but never as difficult as him. Very abusive, very angry, very temperamental, loves to degrade me, insult me, basically, it seems to me he really loves to bring me down, to emotionally and mentally torture me. And after that, silent treatment to complete it all. He doesn't seem to want to work on himself. He told me he's not gonna chànge for anybody.
Anyway, he finally pushed my last button. I'm done for good. Done with his irrationality.
The most interesting patient I have ever had in my 30 years of practice was a patient with NPD with co-morbid factitious disorder imposed on self. Referred by the patients primary care physician.
Everyone needs to watch HG Tudor's coverage of the subject... he's a diagnosed narcissist and psycopath, and his insights into the condition eclipse those offered by modern medicine.
Is there no way to treat a person who denies help because they are in denial and the culture (in my case asian) they grew up in doesn’t really believe in mental health issues? I watched your video about NPD and I am not a doctor so I cannot diagnose for sure but I believe my mother has 8 of the 9 symptoms and it has ruined our family immensely in all aspects; relationship, trust, and even financially. There have been times when things get out of hand due to her manipulation and verbal abuse is also almost always present when things don’t go her way. My siblings and I used to joke about “who was disowned this week” and I was told that One day my husband would leave me and I would have to come crawling back to her, (this was her response to me packing to move and my dad had just recently separated from her due to their awful relationship too) just a few weeks before my wedding but during the wedding in front of everyone she played the perfect mother as if she was happy for me. She once even made a fake fb account with my dad’s name that would often post and tag her about how he loved her and what a wonderful wife/mom she was (this was before the shit really hit the fan and I didn’t see it as a red flag at the time don’t know why). My mom is asian with sadly limited education I think (i don’t even know for sure because I can’t tell what is a lie and truth about her anymore) and in asian culture it is considered taboo to have any mental health problems, when we try to point out that we should do counseling she automatically gets defensive and feels like we are calling her crazy. At the moment we have all limited contact with her including my dad due to the trail of self destruction but she still sees herself as the victim. We let her tell everyone around her (her friends and bigger family) whatever makes her feel comfortable for the reasoning of our distancing even if it means lying and making herself the victim of ungrateful children and husband because we don’t want her to be alone. We do feel guilty as her immediate family but we have lived through so much of it to the point that we really can’t anymore for our own sanity and self worth in our independent lives as people. I am asking because I’d like to be able to reconcile and have somewhat of a normal family but she is not willing to get help like you’ve suggested to do in your video. My siblings and I all grew up with hurt and I didnt realize it might be a mental health issue until i stumbled upon your videos. Thank u so much for sharing this information.