Tongues, Prophecy & Healing with
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- Опубліковано 29 лют 2024
- Check out the original conversation between Jim Osman and @LFTV here -
• Michael Brown & Jim Os...
Make sure you check out Ruslan's channels!
@RuslanKD @BlessGodStudios
Others mentioned in this vid -
@TheRemnantRadio @AmericanGospel @MikeSignorelli_
Website: www.bibledingers.com/
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Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/5N0gWaA...
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Every time someone tells me “God gave me a word for you…” it’s always something very vague and untestable even though we’re suppose to “test the Spirit”…
1 Thessalonians 5:20-21
20 Do not despise prophecies, 21 but test everything; hold fast what is good.
@@illustriouspics1 test everything against the scriptures, right?
@@ReformedRookie … no when someone says son like “God gave this the word fir you… Allow access” …. Or “The Spirit pit this word on my heart for you… God will move in your life”. Things like that are so vague and obscure that they can’t be tested Vs scripture… which tells me it’s just in their head, not The Spirit.
@@RandomBoxingGuy I agree- I think we're on the same page. The reason I added "test everything... against the scriptures" was to show him that it's the scriptures alone that are infallible, and if you have them (and knew them) you would't need prophesies (that are vague, nebulous, vain imaginations... etc.)
Nice conversation fellas, thank you!
The number of incredible Christian content creators I've stumbled across lately between you guys and @RuslanKD and @InspiringPhilosophy
This was an amazing discussion to watch. Humbles me so much to see how people with opposing views can be charitable and still be brothers in Christ! Keep going on!
Thank you so much for the kind words! We just recently had IP on. Awesome guy.
Yup, I watched that discussion you guys had with Michael. That's actually how I discovered you guys :)@@Bibledingers
Bethel and the NAR movement should 100 percent be called out. As a cessacionist I feel like I have a prophetic gift in the sense that I am discerning and am determined to speak what is true to Gods word. There is no room for error.
“Prophets” today be like… “God told me, they’ll be 12 months in 2024”. 😂
Definitely good to have these types of convos. I'm a "continuationist" if I needed a label lol, but it's cool hearing other viewpoints. God bless you brothers 👊🏼🙏🏼☝🏼
No. God bless YOU 😎
This was a great conversation! Love what you guys are doing and love the homie Ruslan!
Thank you bro!
Great discussion guys
Thank you my friend! Are you in Cali? Would love to meet you next time we’re out there.
Loved this conversation
Glad you liked it!
Great Discussion. Enjoyed how balanced it was. God Bless 🙏🏾
Thanks for watching!
really good conversation
Thanks for watching!
Big props brothas!
Thanks Daryl!
This was great. Glad I found you guys. I enjoy watching Ruslan but I definitely lean more Cessationist, not hyper, but pretty much how you guys view it. The way Ruslan always puts down John Macarthur has been seemed so unbecoming to me as well when John Macarthur has been a faithful brother for decades and a phenomenal expositor. Always seemed kind of ridiculous. Great to find a channel of guys similar to my age with similar leanings as mine that aren't super Charismatic like Ruslan. I will say though, to Ruslan's credit, he gave more grace in this interview than he normally does.
Great discussion
Thanks for watching!
Ruslan has changed the definition of prophecy. It hasn’t changed in the New Testament
@ruslankd Genesis isn’t a science book, but isn’t it a historical account?
Absolutely
On the point of the transition between OT Prophecy and NT Prophecy, Ruslan seemed to dance around the issue. A very clear NT prophetic event would have been Peter's vision from Jesus regarding the new allowance of certain food and drink. If we could agree that was a level of NT Prophecy, I think there is your example of what to look for in current day prophecies. If that is the case, I would find it hard to belittle something like prophecy to simply seeking God on whether you should move to California. And if the response is, "well the gifts look different for the everyday believer in comparison to the apostles", then I'm going to need chapter and verse on when that happened, because as was shared, you don't see those things clearly discussed and defined in the later church and pastoral letters.
Wuddup Pahl!
Grudem would define prophecy as the speaking forth of human words something that God has spontaneously brought to mind.
I wish y’all talked more about tongues!
We needed a few more hours! Lol
Matthew 7:22-29
On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not PROPHESY in your name, and CAST OUT DEMONS in your name, and do many MIGHTY WORKS in your name? ' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.
Exactly. And why would he warn about false prophets in the end times, if there weren’t already real prophets to decipher them from??
Can't prophecy just be someone reading scripture if it's only thus saith The Lord? Maybe I'm missing something 🤷♂️
I just came out of a charismatic church after being there for 21 years and am now reformed. I have to say that I’m entirely confused by the majority of Ruslan’s arguments. It feels like he’s talking in circles and not really saying anything. I will say though that I’m glad he’s willing to call out the crazies.
No scriptural grounds for cessationism. Some current charismatic teachers are in error but bad teachers / preacher that are cessationist. We would not tell anyone to stop preaching/ teaching because of bad preachers or teachers.
I have the privilege to being saved non denominational at home by a friend and started my own search.
So to kill the brown argument:
I came to the conclusion IMMEDIATELY after reading acts, that the signs had to be for a specific period of time for specific people - for example the apostles - because else we would see them all around and i never even heard of one happening today that is not a fraud.
So yes i read it by myself and never even thought about this things being for today until i met charismatics who claimed so.
I walk with charismatics since 4 years now. Still haven't seen a single wonder, just vague Prophecy which obviously was lead by instincts.
Like we have people in church that are hurt and everybody knows it and the next time the church leader says a "prophetic word" like: people here are hurt and the lord says they have to forgive.
I hear "tongues" and people taught me how to speak in tongues.
I told them i already know how to speak in tongues because its not hard, you just do some syllables, everybody can do that. Its nothing special.
And they say the devil is deceiving me because i indeed have real tongues and i should not believe those lies.
Interesting enough they say they all had those thoughts from the devil and had to fight them off.
I wonder if not the holy Spirit tried to tell them its a lie and they just ignored him.
I mean i can mimic tongues and its stupid because i know its bullshit but the sad part is they really believe that this is something supernatural.
How...
I dont understand how people can be so blind.
A plain reading of scripture gets you the “essentials of the faith” so something like the Apostle’s Creed. Cessation vs Continuation is not an essential of the faith. The alone on an island reading the Bible example doesn’t make sense categorically bc the Bible is a communal book that’s meant to be read on our own and within the community of believers to be discussed and discipled with. As far as miracles I think what we can say is let’s not confuse the providence of God which can heal through prayer and medical knowledge that God has blessed us is with, with that of the gifts of healing by laying on hands how Jesus and the apostles did.
Yet, on that reckoning a plain reading of the scriptures would never get you to cessationism.
If I'm hearing the combination of these videos correctly: the argument against the idea that a Christian can be demonized is that if it were so important to know, they would have put it in the Bible. And then the argument against continuationism is that you don't see it in the Bible, and you have to read into what's there... Am I seeing that correctly? Because it's seeming like we're holding two standards that oppose one another to support the different arguments we want to make.
Reformed people “throw people under the bus” because we care more about Gods commands then people’s feelings.
Example: John MacArthur removing Alistair Begg from shepherds conference due to him affirming a transgender wedding
You can't just have a feeling that someone in the congregation is going through something and then say it is not God telling you. I just don't see how that's possible. Otherwise, it was your own power that notified you about it.
love you guys but disagree. All I need is the name of one person who has the gift of healing- same as the apostles had- so I can test it by the scriptures.
If you have the name of a person with that kind of gift- who can heal on demand- then I'll repent.
I'm not talking about praying for healing and seeing the results- I do that all the time and God does heal. I'm talking about the GIFT of healing.
I really think this conversation is moving us closer to unity. The NY guys were very balanced and gracious- very much appreciate that as a New Yorker myself.
U disagree with us?
Healing on demand? Do you mean automatic, and without faith in God and reliance on Him? There is no such thing anywhere in the Bible.
@@Bibledingers I'm not finished with the whole video yet, but yes I am a cessationist. I like your balance on the gifts, but still don't think the sign gifts are for today.
I do appreciate that talks like this will build unity and move us forward.
ua-cam.com/video/s684e6Y1o6Y/v-deo.htmlsi=3NFBgqUngf1aU6RJ
@@ReformedRookie gotcha. We’re actually sort of making a case for cessationism in this discussion my friend.
Yes false witness is a sin, and faith leaders should never falsify a word from God or a healing. That’s terrible.
I do understand the argument for misunderstanding each other. But I think what you don’t understand from a cessationists point of view. if their doctrine is right then 100% of what is going on in the charismatic church is indeed fake.
The ascension of Christ to Heaven moved the Apostles to the forefront of responsibility in establishing the Church on earth. The Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost giving the Apostles the power they needed for their ministry. Everything we see today is a crude reflection of that power and fake.
What does Psalms being poetic have to do with interpreting it? Who many prophecies are found in Psalms that are pretty simple and straight forward? I always challenge people to read the prophecies of Jesus’s first coming and tell me how metaphorical they were.
When the one guy was questioning a black and white reading of scripture, he was brining up a fragment of a verse. The biggest problem is that most of the competing doctrines out there are built on verse fragments and not thorough contexts. Thorough context eliminates the arguments, while reading through, cherry picking details, and writing off the rest as poetic and metaphorical cause the problems.
Plain and simple creates a very cohesive theology across scripture.
At 58 mins, the guys say that Jim is using the "fringe" charismatics to prove his point.... I'm here to tell you that the 'fringe' they are talkinh about, in the charismatic circles ARE THE MAJORITY. I've traveled the whole west coast doing 24-30hour worship nights for these "fringe" charismatic churches and their affiliates...
Absolutely not. Why is it a constant argument that the cessationists are calling out the "fringe?" It's simply asinine.
Right, Dr.Brown said it, the gift manifests through a person at God’s will, not the person’s will.
And yes, Ruslan said it too, I would never label someone a prophet even though they have received prophecy from the Holy Spirit before.
Faith is required to receive gifts. Cessationists seem to have less faith. Do cessationists listen after they pray?? Maybe I’m misunderstanding what it means to be a cessationist, because it seems like very close to unbelief.
I appreciate this session. However, no one ever seems to press continuationists on the validity of their claims. They have the burden of proof. In this age of real time streaming video any one of them could easily show the gift of healing or miracles as a sign to fellow believers, but instead its always isolated, without evidence and almost always psychosomatic. Or even worse, you have to pay to attend their showing. They are merely modern day hypnotists. Ruslan has the platform. If there is a so called worker of miracles please by all means. But of course, what you do hear in response is always going to 1 Corinthians 12:31. Well a signed gift is to be seen. Certainly they can identify one who has at least one of them instead of doing what actually occurs and that is praying for an instance of God's intervention or expression of God's providence. That is different than the gifts expressed during the apostolic age.
I just come to the conclusion that cessatist do not want to expierance the gifts because they are in fear of the counterfeits they have seen in pagan practices.
Having said that... Its not an issue of Salvation.
If you accept the gifts or you choose not to accept them its not a matter of your Salvation...but it just affects your experience IN your walk of Salvation.
What I have heard cessationism call " sanctification" .
I like this comment. I organically, through following Christ whole heartedly, have witnessed the gift of prophecy and casting out demons, and so I have no doubt that gifts are still for today. But yeah, it’s unfortunate that lies and false prophets creep in and take away clarity. Also, why would Jesus warn us about false prophets in the end times, if there weren’t also real prophets???
Why would Jesus warn us about false prophets in the end times, if there weren’t also real prophets??
Edit: Yay Ruslan for bringing this up at the end
Ummmm....not really. There already WERE real prophets...in the old testament. So saying that there will be false prophets doesn't mean that there has to be real prophets....currently that is.
Dr. Brown ohhh 🔥 😆
It’s sad Mr.osman doesn’t seek personal revelation 😢
The OG prophets had more faith, less distractions, less physiological interference, etc idk just an idea
If someone had a plain reading of scripture, they would come out believing that Speaking in Tongues edifies the believer, brings deep personal communion with God, and if accompanied by interpretation- will edify the body.
Also, it’s Gifts of Healings. Both are plural. It seems to me that every healing is a gift from the Spirit. Meaning that when everyone prays for someone to be healed and someone is healed, that is a gift of healing that took place.