Is There a Future for the Falmer? The Snow Elves | The Elder Scrolls Podcast #10
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- WELCOME to the Elder Scrolls Podcast with FudgeMuppet. In this episode, Scott, Michael & Drew discuss the Falmer.
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to be fair to the snow prince. children have invincibility and are impossible to kill without mods
"What're you looking at? Im not afraid of you, you know. Even you are my elder."
Just duel cast zombie spells on them and they turn to ash sure there alive but its a I have no mouth and i must scream situation.
Also works of those rare individuals who have become essential
@@vonfaustien3957 dude skyrim NPCs as a whole live in a situation similar to that of i have no mouth and i must scream, pretty much subject to an evil asshole with complete control over their lives, appearances, relationshiops...etc, except we are the evil AI in this case
He was running an exploit speed run
@@Spike2276 Damn, when you think about it like that then that’s downright scary. We ourselves could also be in a similar situation; the programs of some higher entity. All of humanity’s squabbles, wars, and indifferences being meaningless and only serve as mere entertainment for what we consider with all intentions and purposes to be, a God.
What boggles the mind is how some Falmer bother to use bow and arrows despite being blind.
Even more mind boggling is the use of magic. Although all forms of combat are pretty mind blowing unless you are daredevil
They're Daredevils
There's a Samurai Jack episode about 3 blind archers. They use sound.
They probably developed hypersensitivity...their hearing, smell, and touch are probably insane....basically Daredevil.
@Holy Hand Grenades Sound, smell, heck possibly taste or vibrations. Any one of their other senses could easily have heightened to replace sight.
It's honestly incredible how FudgeMuppet has been going for so long and are still able to make hour-long videos. I love falling asleep watching your lore videos, appreciate you guys.
Thought I was the only one that listened to this while falling asleep 😂
@@curb_slayer Their voices are so relaxing lmao
@@Troytrapz not wrong at all
Ditto
I’m watching these high as fuck, all the lore and shit sounds so much cooler in that state of mind lol
Theory: Considering how repulsive they are and how they dwell in the dark and are surrounded my insects. My theory is, that in their pitiful situation they turned from worshiping Auriel, to worshiping Namira. At least in some way.
Namira probably gave them hope or way to for them to accept their situation and through that, power.
And that's why they didn't leave the Dwemer ruins, because that would have gone against her wishes. Her wish to keep them in their pitiful state.
The Orsimer have a patron Daedric Prince, the Falmer could have too.
I think it could fit.
That's an interesting theory actually... I like it
That is an intriguing idea
Makes sense
45:00 Regarding the lifespan of elves: Savos Aren says that “the magic you learn here can last for a lifetime - several, if you’re talented.” Which suggests that a proper understanding of magic can significantly extend your life. Elves can live for a couple centuries, normally, but a proper arcane prowess could potentially extend that to millennia. Which would explain why some elven mages, like the Psyjics and others, have had exceptionally long lives.
Is it possible that “blind” could be a mistranslation of sorts?
When you were talking about how the eyes are portals to light and this is, in a way, like turning on their gods who were all about light, is it possible that the actual price the Dwemer demanded of the Snow Elves was for them to renounce their gods, whether to become non worshippers like them, or to venerate the Dwemer in some way, and that they weren’t asked to become actually blind but merely to shut themselves off from Auriel, Magnus, etc, but generations of living underground rendered them actually blind anyway, so we assume that the price the Dwemer wanted was physical blindness, not spiritual blindness, since it’s all we have to go off of?
If so, I think the Snow Elves accepting this price is more acceptable to save their race than accepting to be maimed forever, if they were facing extinction.
Some cave fish in real life don't have eyes, so I believe in this.
Well, what about the fungus that they ate? I don't think u can eat some fungus and be like "I don't believe in my gods anymore!".
Cool theory, would definitely be more interesting lorewise than just literal blindness. Though I can also see that that might just be reaching too far into the metaphor because what we know from the Dwemer, it's not that they're atheist or against worship of divines they just don't see the gods as infallible, omniscient beings that are better than the dwarves themselves so they don't see a reason or purpose in worshipping them. So I'd think that they wouldn't really care who the snow elves worship eihter as long as that doesn't interfere with the plans of the dwemer. I don't think they'd go all Thalmor on Auri-El or rather they wouldn't waste their time with something like that. Either way, there's definitely some room here for more sweet sweet dwemer lore. Hopefully they expand on this in TES6 maybe, especially if it takes place in Hammerfell.
As stated by @@andrewhavrylei6333, there is the problem with them eating a fungus and "becoming blind". But if we're already stretching this theory this far, why not further? We already know the Dwemer have the ability to extract information on to devices such as the runed lexicon and attunement sphere. The lexicon in particular was used for discerning information from an elder scroll; which as we all know, will make you go blind if used improperly. This leads me to two different conclusions; either they used to falmer's somehow to read the elder scroll, or after reading it used a similar device to extract information given to them by Auri-El or even Auri-El's light from their souls (as their souls aren't the same size as other mers in skyrim). The toxic fungus were used to blind them as to make this process easier.
They are legitimately blind that's why falmer helmets don't have eyes
I always assumed the greatest of Snow Elves buildings were made from Ice and Snow, similar to the Hotels you find in Iceland and the Nordic countries(and yes, Frozen), but on a much, much grander scale. With the passing of the Snow Elves, who maintained them, they collapsed and melted. That is why you find limited Snow Elf ruins in Skyrim.
I always thought would it be possible that thenordic ruins were built on top of ruins of snow elves or something hence why some are like icey on the inside
I'd wager they were built of stone, like the Chantry. I guess it's a matter of taste and I personally love Elder Scrolls elves because of how "real" they are and less "fantastic". I'm not saying anyone's dumb for imagining Snow elf architecture as being made of ice, but that's a bit like if we didn't know anything about Dunmer except tiny tidbits of lore and that they lived in Morrowind, we'd imagine their houses made of lava rock, with an open lava pit in every home. While they actually live in clay houses and some, in giant mushrooms.
@@Aethuviel ah yes, igloos and ice buildings, things we have in our world, are "fantastic", and not at all "realistic".
I’d go with the suggestion that the hosts mentioned that after defeating the Falmer, the Atmorians/Nords simply tore the buildings down. It might be boring, but it seems plausible.
@@casteanpreswyn7528
Well, they've got a point.
A massive Icy Civilization that melted all away? Sure, not impossible, but he meant realistic as in, I mean, would they really have had purely magical houses made purely of ice? You'd think well crafted stone and such would be fitting, all white and blue and some Grey, some areas of Sapphire in the aesthetic, etc.
He gave a good example, would you have assumed the Dunmer only lived in Ash and volcanic Rock if we didn't know about them?
Fudge Muppet: Doesn't sperate the betrayed from the Snow Elves
Gelebor would like to know your location
But yeah the Snow Elves are my favorite Elder Scrolls race,with the Dunmer,and Altmer at a second and 3rd.And thx for the love Fudge Muppet
Ethan Robbins lol. I’m right there with you on your favorite races. Snow elves aren’t first, but they’re definitely up near the top for men. But the Dunmer, Altmer, and Nords are my top three. I just started playing ESO again, and I can’t wait to travel to and explore the Summerset Isles with my own eyes. Just gotta get through the Greymoor (western Skyrim) beginning first hahaha
@@ethanrobbins5008 Snow elves are 2nd for me after Dunmer. Probably would be 1st if they were properly fleshed out. Fudgemuppet was being really cruel towards the end there. Cut our icy bois some slack!
I love these podcasts, and it shows that you're getting more comfortable doing them. Keep em' coming!
Gelebor is pretty much implied to be immortal through Auriel’s doing. You can’t even hit him with weapons so he’s not like other ‘essential’ NPCs.
Why even try? I felt so bad for him that I got myself a mod which enabled me to take him out for a walk around skyrim.
Would have made a cool follower!
If you can't even hit him would that make him invincible too?
p. Samedi lmaooo
@@p.samedi2473 While that sounds wholesome and bet you had good intentions. It sounds evil letting him see his former homeland and seeing how prosperous the Nords became 💀
I love these because it makes me speculate a bit myself.
1. I assumed the Dwemer forcibly devolved the Falmer to use their souls as fuel for their machines. White souls are a lot more plentiful than black souls, or at least the gems are.
2. If the Falmer do hold Magnus in high regard, the god of Sight, Light, and Insight (if I’m not mistaken), maybe the Snow Elves have reverence for eyes and sight, and the Dwemer made that the cost for whatever reason.
3. Gelebor says that the Snow Elves also worshipped Trinimac. Is it possible that their corruption could be tied, even symbolically, to Trinimac’s into Malacath?
I doubt every Mer in the world that worshipped Trinimac simultaneously became an Orc. The origin story has also mentioned them rubbing the essence he has on him onto their skin, and it changed them into Orcs afterwards.
@@thalmoragent9344 I doubt that as well. Just some light speculation.
@@luckyjedi429
Ah, I see. Yeah fair enough, anything is possible, just doubt it happened that way
Anyways, RIP the Falmer, I feel they didn't deserve this, regardless of what really happened before the Night of Tears
1. doesn't really make sense with the ESO lore regarding soul gems which says that there was originaly no difference between white and black souls. However because the Mage's Guild found the practice of soul trapping people immoral they secretly standardized the soul trap spell to not be able to trap the souls of the sentient races.
Since both the fall of the snow elves and the fall of the dwemer predate the founding of the mage's guild they would not be affected by this.
Wouldnt it be easier to use domesticated animals for white souls rather than enslaving and devolving an already sentient race?
I have a feeling there’s small cells of snow elves that got out of skyrim. It’s possible for there to be other hidden sanctuaries, right? I honestly want to see them in tes 6 in some form.
Unfortunately it's unlikely we'll see more of them, but my headcanon (until something comes along to contradict it) is that there are a few hundred of them left, scattered in small groups, hidden in places similar to the Forgotten Vale. Maybe they'll find poor Gelebor some day.
I'm pretty sure that it's established lore that a not insignificant number of snow elves fled to the lands of the Altmer and were integrated into Altmer society and over the millenia, due to intermarrying, the snow elves as a race, were bred out of existence.
Aren't there some in the Dawnguard DLC? Vampiric snow elves?
@@ericamborsky3230
Yeah but Elves don't breed as humans, so if it was a sizable amount, they could've just bred amongst themselves for some time without inbreeding.
Surely there would be more records/documents on them if they lived. If there was a "non insignificant" amount of them that survived, we'd have better records of it, surely
I have also suggested this. I'm guessing you recall that Gelebor has stated that there may be other "hidden onclaves of Snow Elves". I'm hoping that ESVI explores this possiblity.
The Snow Elves are actually one my favorites, I just love the mystery of their origins
@Holy Hand Grenades Dungeons?
Are you hoping we get blind Falmer with unique abilities, civilized by Gelebor, to play as?
@@mitchryan257
Odds are, that wouldn't work, as then it would raise questions as to why we can't play with Ogres or Goblins and stuff, and Bethesda likely won't do that.
Only way to get more Snow Elves would be if they had a hidden Chantry in the northern most region of High Rock really, in some mountain formation that the Direnni sectioned off that they never told the Nedes or Bretons under their rule.
Although, its also the fact that High Rock mountains aren't severe as the ones at the border with Skyrim, and you'd think a Chantry would be found or at least more recognized given it wouldn't be as easy to hide like the Mountain range where the Chantry of Auriel is hiding.
But it's all speculation
Definitely my favorite part of the story of Snow Elves was the Snow Prince just tearing his way through the Nords reminding me of Hector from the Illiad when he shoved the Greeks back to their ships and was just going ham on them. I would love to have met the snow prince in game, or even see the battle.
Me too, guy went out like a badass, I can't imagine the weight of knowing he's their race's last hope, all that most been a heavy burden to bare
I think its a no-brainer that the Ancient Falmer who refused the Dewmer actually got out of Skyrim safely. Some hiding in the snowy valleys or other places. In the Dawnguard fortress,( I forgot his name) but he tames frost trolls. There's a possibility that those who got away, also have their own frost trolls to protect them, they also could have raised polar bears and frost spiders.
I think they mean more about the race as a cohesive whole, like sure a few splinter groups would have kept fleeing but the big group decision was to go with dwemer
And it's VERY unlikely that falmer groups would've bred frost trolls, frostbite spiders and snow bears, just because if they fled the nords then they have to go south, east or west because to the north of skyrim there's only the sea of ghosts and then atmora and i don't think that going to atmora would be very smart
I wouldn't be surprised that the devolved falmer have killed more hidden snow elves besides the the ones at the Chantry of Auri-El. I seriously doubt there would be many (if any) left besides Gelebor.
Honestly the snow-elves, despite being very underdeveloped, are a very interesting as a race. Although they never actually say that some of them don’t flee maybe in Elder Scrolls 6 we could be sent on a mission by a guard captain to investigate disappearances in icy mountains or near a dwemer ruin (somewhere, depending on where the game is set.) And heading up their you discover a community of snow-elves nurturing feral falmer back to health, and reintroducing them to old habits that may have been common in ancient snow-elf culture. After finding them they reveal the disappearances were them trying to keep their existence a secret as to avoid traditional nords or anyone who may wish to harm them, but when you find them they need your help, so they send you to meet a ruling council who send you on a quest to retrieve a rare plant which they need to further help the falmer. Later on during this quest line you’re given an option to report them to one of the neighboring kingdoms, who decide to use this as an opportunity to bring justice to the community for the disappearances as well as using it to help forge an alliance with a large group of traditional nords, then with their combined forces they attack and kill them down to the last Mer. Or you could not do that and instead help them through a side quest line to help them reclaim their old identity, perhaps eventually convincing them to expand into Skyrim to help more falmer.
I like this idea. Because if the Falmer ate this fungus, that made them blind, there has to be some way to reverse it. Kinda like in the Witcher 3 when you turn Uma back into his elven form.
hire this man bethseda
@@chenstormstout9456 I don't think it can be reversed, cause the Falmer that are alive in the present times are just Falmer... They were never Snow Elves to begin with... I might be mistaken tho, if the Falmer share the common Elf trait of being long-lived, then at least some of the current ones might be the ancient Falmer, that were once Snow Elves and not a new generation that is beyond redemption :)
if you take the route to report the snow elves know that im hitting you with my car in real life
Snow elves are my favorite, I would love to see them as a playable race with a city in the forgotten vale.
My first reaction to falmer: I hate these disgusting cannabilistic creepy monsters, I'll burn them all
Me after learning about them: I will send you to Auriel you poor soul, Goodnight sweet snow prince.
Me after watching this video: Pay the price for your cowardice.
@@R0NYFL0NY
You can't say that when we don't even know what happened before the Night of Tears, as well as the fact that they went to their Elven cousins in hopes of escaping literal genocide... come on dude, show some sympathy
@@thalmoragent9344 1. Your name is Thalmor Agent. 2. The Falmer essentially attempted genocide on the early Atmoran settlers. 3. The Falmer decided to invoke the war. This is essentially Germany declaring war on Russia or Japan spitting on Pearl Harbour. They struck first and as a result, the crushing retribution was dealt severely.
But to be fair, we know nothing beforehand. However, Ahzidal was the first recorded Nord to learn the Elven magic arts before and after the Night of Tears.
Would this not be fair to assume the Falmer magic arts were taught to Ahzidal at some point?
Plus I am not justifying Ysgramor. I am simply saying that is seems more likely that the Falmor decided to attack the settlers unprovoked and that those who survived would harbor some D E E P resentments. Ysgramor is in the wrong, yes. But you cannot simply but blame on one side only. Both are at fault.
Couple of my thoughts here:
-Based on the few things we know I'd imagine advanced in their case means architecturally and magically (clearly not in the same sense of the dwemer, but there are still things other than creating essentially robots that can be considered advanced magic).
-It's entirely possible that the snow elves weren't necessarily cowards as much as they were peaceful. Their first response to people invading their lands was, after all, to be ok with it. If they were a peaceful society they may just not have been able to deal with the presumably more battle ready atmorans. This could also explain why they attacked saarthal at night, though it would be very stupid. It's even described in the story of the snow prince that the atmorans had superior weapons (even though the snow elves are described as advanced), further indicating they may have just not been a warring civilization.
-The snow prince might have been blessed by Auri-El. It would explain why his weapons bore a "radiant and terrible glow of unknown magicka," and why that is no longer the case when you find his grave. It would also explain why the very religious elves were so excited about it. (The armor in his tomb is also clearly not an accurate representation due to game development and stuff, as it's basic steel armor and bears no real resemblance to the snow elf armor in skyrim)
-The becoming blind may have been very gradual. This could explain some of the weirder things like how they were able to fight the dwemer and build a statue. Perhaps you slowly became blind over the course of your life as you kept this diet of mushrooms, and they merely became a blind race over time due to living underground and a slow stacking of the mushroom's effects over the generations.
-It states that there were groups who rejected the dwemer, and some returned, sure, but some also simply vanished. Vanished might very well mean that they managed to escape skyrim (or hide within it). And that's not mentioning that there may have been snow elves who didn't go to the dwemer to begin with (presumably ones that lived close to the borders and could easily escape that way).
-When the snow elves accepted the dwemer deal, it's good to consider their morale were completely shattered and there was an active manhunt going on for them. Elves residing further away from the border may have been so devastated by the news of the snow prince's death and the manhunt that they didn't believe they had another option. Of course just leaving seems like a better decision, but that's a judgement made by us, people with the perspective of like 4000 years of lore and can look at the situation with an objective eye that isn't affected by extreme grief.
-Considering falmer no longer have black souls I would think it's entirely possible they lost their extended lifespan as well.
-It's absolutely possible that the falmer may become a higher race again. Breaking out of the lore here, but bethesda adding a part about that seems to indicate that they at least consider it a possible option for future games. Does this mean they'll become a playable race? probably not, it pains me to say but it doesn't feel like bethesda will move away from the standard race setup any time soon. Will they be like the snow elves again? I doubt it, in fact, I recall Gelebor saying it's probably too late for them, but they might learn of who they were and accept the same gods once again.
-And finally: We might just have bad info. This argument doesn't really get us anywhere because you can't exactly prove or disprove it, but it's interesting to consider nonetheless. A lot of the info we have on snow elves comes from the nords, the same people who basically view them as boogiemen. Their sources are the atmorans, the enemies of the snow elves. There's thousands of years in-between the current events and the ones described, while the men have human lifespans. It's entirely possible, even likely, that we have twisted information, on top of the obvious lack. There are three atmorans that survived the night of tears, those are effectively the only source we have on what happened there, if those three people were to lie and say the snow elves attacked at night for no reason, then who's going to correct them? The account of the snow prince is from an atmoran soldier, written down by another guy, and presumably copied over and over again (it also doesn't show up in any game set earlier than morrowind, so there's that). The point I'm making is that history is written by the victors, and while the snow elves were definitely too weak to defeat the atmorans, perhaps not all is as we think. (again, yes, this thinking doesn't get us very far due to the lack of proof, and until we get a game set in those times we'll never know for sure, but there's no harm in thinking about it as a "what if")
True, very true. A lot of fans love the nords, so they take their side of the story as truth, even though they shouldn't.
I wonder if maybe the 500 Companions was just the Vanguard of the Atmoran Army, and so even if the Elves were superior in tech and weapons, they probably couldn't handle the massive nordic armies, and their Thu'um weilders, as well as the whole Sai, the God of Luck story, that he was biased and helping the Nords more than the other races, so the Snow Elves may have had a much rougher time due to all of this.
An army of 500 which took on the strongest of the Snow Elf armies and cities, with thousands of Atmorans pouring in from the north and into Skyrim, all boosted with Luck as well as potentially Dragons as well (we know that "Beasts" were a part of the invading armies, according to Songs of the Returned) and some of the 500 were killed at Saarthal when they returned, so it's clear the Snow Elves weren't bad at war, just that this war was simply too much, and the threat of Dragon Cults or Priests getting their hands on the Eye of Magnus was simply too great a risk.
(although, I don't see why they wouldn't have asked or demanded it before killing everyone, so maybe the Eye was tampered with, and the Snow Elves saw this as unforgivable and too dangerous to be left in Human hands)
I love the concept of snow elves, have we actually ever seen elves based around ice and snow in fantasy games before? I can’t think.
Sacred had kind of crazy religious snow elves somewhere deep in the woods.
I mean yes even my own book series has them. Elves sometimes get grouped in with Fae and other nature spirits as there is usually an Elven race or species for everywhere or anything depending on what the story needs. Left-Handed Elves I think were even more unique because I could think of a million other kinds of elves but they were like nah what if there was a race who had a primarily left-handed population.
Do the Christmas elves in Elf Bowling count?
Wasn't the wild hunt in witcher 3 elves? I might have that wrong
@@jamesmartel8381 yeah, wild hunt are elves that migrated to a different world
I think bringing the snow elves back as a playable race after dawnguard is extremely reasonable. They don’t have to bring back snow elf civilization but gelebors last words makes it a reasonable possibility to me
Yeah but it depends, I mean, that would imply some Falmer are out and about in wherever the Province is, and that wouldn't match well, since you never hear of Falmer outside of Skyrim. You waking around in broad daylight... wouldn't work well.
@@thalmoragent9344 yeah but your character is intended to be unique in its environment. That alone is enough for justification with me. I see what you and other people mean but throughout the elder scrolls series there has been the occasional dwemer, falmer, and alyied. Don’t see why making yourself one would mke for any less of a unique experience with an NPC.
@@garretthorsch8143
Well that raises a lot of questions. For one, what are you doing outside of your hiding spot? Why leave your group of remaining Falmer with one less person?
Yes we've had the occasional Mer of once thought extinct races, but those are VERY specific people in certain situations. If you were a Dwemer, that raises a lot of questions and they have to make the Lore fit well enough with what's established.
Hell, an Aylied is more likely than either of those 2 to actually even be around in any capacity. Look, in just as big a Falmer fan as any, 100% no doubt, and I'd love nothing more than to have them back, but you being "unique in your environment" with all the other games never has you set up as a once thought to be extinct race.
The Hero of Kvatch is an Imperial, the Dragonborn is a Nord, the Nerevarine is a Dunmer. All of which makes sense. For Bethesda to right in the Lore that a Falmer was the protagonist and was in the public view just as much as these past 3... well, it would need some work.
Those occasional exceptions you mentioned were one time things, and I don't see Bethesda adding in any of those races of Mer into the possibility of character creation. It would be more about how people react to the hero's race rather than how the hero actually does what he does or is involved with whatever
@@thalmoragent9344 the remaining true Falmer have no reason to hide though. Nords aren’t just slaughtering them on sight anymore. And not necessarily. While yes those are the races where those provinces are they intentionally leave the race out of the heroes lore so that your play through in the last game is cannon. Realistically 99.9% of characters in the universe wouldn’t even realize you were a snow elf. They would probably assume you to be a light skinned altimer or a maormer realistically. I mean the falmer are always going to be modded in regardless of the game from skyrim on. It would be nice to have an elven templar who uses sun magic. Then again I would be willing to bet that TES6 will have the option to make high elves skin far more pale. They looked sickly in skyrim with their yellow skin and all the snow elves in the game were actually just altmer with a new pale skin tone. That alone would make me happy. As well as having the ability to flesh your characters build out more in TES6 so you can actually make a sun magic elf. And yeah they could easily write in why small populations of snowelves returned (in fact that is literally what they did in the dawnguard dlc) so Aylieds aren’t more likely because we know for a fact small populations of snow elves already exist where as the last known aylied was killed in coldharbor during the second era in eso. So snow elves are far more likely to return as a playable race. Aylieds maybe second due to fheir close resemblance with the altmer themselves and the third and highly unlikely is the dwemer. Though I will say that the dwarves will return eventually it seems inevitable. They will never be a playable race but they might be a main antagonist eventually or show up to save the altmer from making the same mistakes they did only worse. Rather the Thalmor not necessarily the altmer. In all likelihood not one of these races will become a playable race but if one were to it would without a doubt be the falmer because it is now canonical that part of their civilization survived.
@@garretthorsch8143
No, in the Dawnguard DLC, they never say small populations of Falmer returns, it's just Gelebor we know of, and he never leaves the outside world.
The Snow Elves wouldn't take a chance in Skyrim again, and while Nords may not kill them on sight, that bitter rivalry cannot be forgotten, especially considering what the Nords did to them.
Vengeance would understandably be on their minds, and everyone is gonna ask where these Falmer cane from, and what they even are. When word spreads that these Snow Elves are a race of Mer once thought extinct at the hands of the Nords, a lot of talk will arise and who knows how Nords like Ulfric would respond? The Nords aren't gonna like sharing their province with Mer, especially one they know they waged a very bloody war with.
We don't know for a fact that small populations of Snoe Elves are out there, Gelebor says he hopes there are, and he may have been right, but the Falmer are just like the Aylieds in terms of an ancient Mer race driven to near Extinction, and the few Aylieds that escaped either died off or interbred with other Mer and no longer exist as a seperate race anymore.
Look, I'd want Falmer to come back more than anyone, but unfortunately I feel Fudgemuppet is right, well likely never see them widespread in another game. If we find a hidden Chantry in the most Northern parts of High Rock or the highest place in the mountains between Hammerfell/High Rock/Skyrim. They've been hiding for around 4,000 years, I'd want to know why they hadn't left sooner, or tried to aid their Direnni cousins against the Humans like the last Aylieds did, but I suppose their numbers were still too small.
Either way, I hope you're right, I'd love to see them, but Gelebor is more concerned with potentially restoring or at least civilizing the current Falmer more than he is concerned with looking for other Snow Elves. He's remained hidden all this time, and all the other Snow Elves will think they may be the last ones, and they'd never feel comfortable leaving any of their Chantry's, unless they can reach the Dominion, which the Thalmor would use as an example of how the humans were barbaric against the Falmer
But yeah, if some Dwemer or Falmer or Aylied ever told the Thalmor they're making a mistake with going to war with humans who have proven to be genocidal before, then perhaps they could help the Monarchy take more popularity again and take back control of Summerset over the Dominion
I have a brilliant Playthrough going atm on PS4 with a few mods...
I play as an Altmer, with Falmer ancestry.. keeping the Falmer hair colour and having pale eyes. I play that many high born Falmer families fled to Somerset, while poorer Falmer and those who lost warriors in battles amd were stranded were enslaved (old & young).
He has journeyed to Skyrim, to visit his ancestral homeland and learn more about them, and is focused on learning magic too.
I use water magic (Phendrix mods) and bound weapons, an Ethereal power, as well as Mirage ethereal horse and water walking... I play that they manipulate water which is part of their Ice powers (which is frozen water). In my mind, back in the early merethic they share some kinship with Maormer too, who are pale and have water magic.
Also, with Magical college mod, more college students, midden expanded and utilising joining the Falmer faction via the realm of Lorkhan mod (which also helps with an alternate start of your choice) this has been SO SO fun and I would recommend it to anyone.
Ignore the Dragonborn abilities and story, as this is a different NPC, but do the college quests and others you feel are worth it.
Going into Falmer / Dwemer ruins, they don't attack you, recognising your Falmer blood, but I ended up killing them in mercy at times, so sad but powerful.
Also, temple of Phynaster is a really good mod too with this.
Would love to see a fudge muppet build based on this too.
I have managed an amazing story and character arc with this character and have thoroughly enjoyed it.
I love the idea of an Altmer or some other Mer being fascinating and saddened by the Falmer and their fall.
You have a list of Mods that I could see for trying a similar story
Eeeh, in regards to the downfall of the Snow Elves and Ysgrammor, I don't think that he reacted in proportion to what they did. Even if they provoked the Nords and deserved punishment, ultimately we're talking about a very long and very deliberate genocide which took many generations to be completed. That's not justice, not just vengeance. This is pure hatred and I'd equate it to what the Redguards did, what the Ayleids did and in parts what Pelinal did. I don't think it's fair to dismiss the scale and pure horror of what the Nords did. They deleted a culture, something that only the Redguards managed to do when they invaded. What these races did was wrong on a whoooole other level. Otherwise, good discussion guys :)
Something only third reich did...
Yeah Im not a huge fan of nords as a race. they're a bunch of brawny meatheads that hate magic ana annilhate such a cool race and advanced civilisation. Ana what did they replace it with a bunch of primitive castles and ruins.
Yeah, ppl need to realize there’s a difference between war and genocide
The Snow Elves that participated in the Night of Tears definitely deserve to get murdered. That’s clearly (what we would call) a war crime, a massacre, and quite possibly an attempted genocide in and of itself.
So the desire for vengeance and retribution, especially from a warrior culture like the Nords, *is* understandable- but there’s a distinction between “understandable” and “justified”.
The idea that all snow elves were just as guilty as the perpetrators of the massacre, is incredibly faulty; that the entire race was somehow “in on the conspiracy”, including non-combatants, is straight up fascism.
I’m not saying they shouldn’t have gone to war, or otherwise sought retribution and reparations- but it really is an “eye for an eye makes the whole world blind” kind a thing
Sounds like we’ve got some elf-loving milk-drinkers in this thread
@@greystoke8234
To be honest, the fact you think Elf lovers are milk drinkers says a lot.
To be honest, so many people hate the elves more than anything else. TES community is very anti Mer, and so I feel we "Elf lovers" really are in the minority.
(Seriously though, what do you think of this? Do you really believe the Snow Elves deserved this?)
Snow elves are my favourite race, mainly because they are elves that live in Skyrim that got along with the nords at one point. They are also basically less brutal pale white Ayleids, that worship Aedra. Maybe I just pity them, I dunno. Hope they make an appearance in a future game.
Might be cool if Gelebor manages to civilize some of them and we can play as a blind Falmer with frost resistance and some unique abilities.
I LOVE THESE POD CASTS! Keep up the work!
"Are the Orcs more accomplished?"
I mean, they're alive so...
Obviously it implies at the peak of their civilization. Snow elves had an empire, with amazing architecture, art and armor. Orcs had Orsinium.
They’re also a lot more sexy
Are Falmer dead? Am I missing something? They certainly don't register as vampires.
@@chironOwlglass the Ancient Falmer are dead, except for Gelebor. The ones we see in Skyrim are essentially cursed, blinded by the Dwemer.
@@Aethuviel
Yep, Snow Elves achieved a great civilization nearly on par with that of the Altmer in the Summerset Isles. Nothing against the Orcs, but... they had a single city, one torn down many times. They have no official province to call their own, which is far below the Snow Elves, being a major race of a province they could actually call their homeland, along with Dwemer
My theory is that the Falmer had to be blind in order to mine Aetherium for the Dwemer. Something about Aetherium means it can only be harvested by the blind.
Always been my headcanon that some Atmoran shows his Falmer friend a holy relic of the gods just discovered in Saarthal. Falmer recognizes the "Eye of Magnus" and then reads the Atmoran inscription beneath it. "Left Testicle of Shor" and thinks, "These people need to die because of this insult."
Honouring your enemies by giving them a proper burial says a great deal about you and the respect you have for your enemy.
Perfect timing. Gonna pull up a chair, got my sweet rolls and Honningbrew mead. Perfect.
Awesome! Absolutely love these podcasts! Thank you so much!
Just reposting my suggestion to make sure you guys see it. My suggestion is a podcast on "alternative" forms/schools of magic. Like blood magic (such as we see in ESO siphoning skills, vampires and tsaesci), light magic (as used by the ayleids), sun magic, shadow magic, reach magic (sort of a corrupt form of druidic/nature magic, idk), shapeshifting, serpent magic (used by maormer) and such. Even some schools like soul magic and flesh magic which you already covered in other videos could be revisited, since a debate between you could shed some new light on it.
Thank so much!
I agree that there should be a podcast on the non-standard schools or areas of magic. I dont believe there is enough of them in the ES series, even though they are touched on in game.
that Snow Elf is referring to HIS memory. from his viewpoint the Snow Elves were always fighting Nords. just means he was born during this period following the return of the Nords, the final years of that society.
How most people see falmer: Tragic victims of genocide and torture.
How Scott sees the falmer: Pathetic cowardly beta bug loving grubby goblins.
alternatively titled: michael scott and drew roast the snow elves for one hour
2:55 its kinda sadistic how Michael actually laughs at the idea of Ysgramor’s Genocide upon them... that's kinda messed up
I’d like to see a group of elves that actually use magic to live in the skies, like their whole civilization is based around living in the sky with cloud cities and flight based magic and the like.
There's always akavir
Well according to Kirkbride, if you take his out of game writing as canon, there have been Moon Elves since the 2nd era.
@@mitchryan257 Moon?! do tell me more!
*drops moon elf bombshell*
*refuses to elaborate*
I love the point Scott made about how magic may be a practical or normal thing for elves whereas for man it may be an abstract metaphysical thing for early man
Scott: goes to sleep
Scott's closet: *insect-like chittering*
I like the point about how the Falmer turned their backs on their whole culture and their chief gods (Auriel and Magnus) by turning to the godless, subterranean Dwemer for refuge.
We could even take it a step further and hypothesize that Auriel and/or Magnus purposely allowed (or perhaps even caused, or at least pushed along and made more devastating) the blinding and corruption of those who turned to the Dwemer as a divine judgment against them. This would explain even more why Gelebor and his brother would have felt abandoned by Auriel, with their prayers going unheaded. The Falmer had turned their backs on him, so he brought about severe judgment against them.
I wonder if the more that come aground and rediscover their ancient faith and culture could potentially be restored to their pre-corrupt state by Auriel.
It also would be interesting to know if a Daedric Prince could reverse their blindness and corruption in exchange for their worship. I think Meridia would be a solid choice for them. We know she had ancient temple in Skyrim, she was a patron deity of many Ayleid city-states so already has an affinity for the elves, she is (according to the accounts we have) a Magna-Ge and so has ties to Magnus, and she has (according to the _Exegesis of Merid-Nunda_ ) some sovereignty over the flow of time (either in partnership with or in a superior role to Auriel himself). Plus, her Dawnbreaker pairs beautifully with Auriel's shield. I use those two together all the time in my _Dawnguard_ playthroughs.
If Meridia could and did restore the Falmer, I could easily see the Chantry of Auriel being restored but dedicated to her worship. (The Chantry of Meridia; or the Chantry of Merid-Nunda, if they went with her older, elvish name.)
As my favorite daedric prince I would love to see a Falmer civilization reborn dedicated to her or at least her older form of Merid-Nunda
I wonder if any of the snow elves went to Atmora, since they are better suited for the cold.
Just a thought but a cool theory
Consider that the last wave of atmorans came to tamriel in the 3rd era... I don't think that the people up there would be very nice to the elves who destroyed their first colony
Not to mention it’s said that the reasons they moved from Atmora is because of how uninhabitable it had became over the years. I think fudge has made some videos on the migration from atmora to tameriel.
Now THAT is an interesting theory... as the men abandoned Atmora to take over the Snow Elf homeland, the Snow Elves snuck over and settled the invader's old homeland. I like the irony of it. XD And the idea that there is a flourishing Snow Elf civilization hidden away in the icy wastes that men have forgotten how to find.
@@Spike2276 the 3rd era? Which wave was that? According to UESP, the last migration (likely a legend, since Skyrim confirms the Arcturian Heresy's account of Tiber's real name being Hjalti and he at least spending time in High Rock) was Tiber Septim in the late 2nd era. Previous to that, the last recorded Armoran contact was two ships mostly laden with dead bodies in 1E 68. Of course, during Harald's reign (1E 113-122) the Atmoran mercenaries returned to their homeland, implying there must have been some kind of human settlement to return to. Still, those ships make it sound like the human hold of Atmora was faltering, and I wouldn't be surprised if any Snow Elves that did make the journey would have had an easy time taking what they wanted.
I've thought about that too. Since Gelebor said they could exist "elsewhere on Nirn", that implies other continents. And maybe they're more frost resistant than Nords, which could make Atmora habitable for them - provided all the humans were gone.
Theory: Namira's rot is the fungus that the Falmer were fed. Not only is it associated with the daedric prince of beggars and revulsion, it also has "Damage Magica" as its first ingredient effect. Severing the Falmer from their magics through a diet of nasty daedra soup.
These podcasts really are a part of my weekend now.
It's so nice to have something long and interesting in the background when doing stuff.
Thank you for doing these and I hope you continue!
About Ahzidal, I kind of pictured that as the Humans and Elves in the Witcher books: the earliest human sorcerers were taught by the Elves... and then the humans declared war and sacked their cities and built their mudhuts on top of them.
I think I said this on a different video, but I feel like the Falmer regaining competence and advancement of their civilization seems to be best possible with Azura's involvement. And what better thing to fuel your daedric Vanity than with adding ANOTHER race to your faithful children. Give them their sight back and gain their undivided love and admiration. Good Daedra vibe check. Also, I get a little bit of primitive Namira worship kinda vibes, or at least in the aesthetic of the Falmer now. What with the bugs, chitin, poisons, cannibalism (of other races), living in the depths of the deep, forgotten and Betrayed scene going on. Worship to the extent that goblins and such worship Malauch or however you spell that manifestation of Malacath. My head cannon.
As a reminder on the Wispmother front. They are undead. They aren't spriggans. The Turn Undead effect works on them at a high enough level, and the perks in the Illusion tree which apply to undead apply to Wispmothers. I believe the Wispmothers are incorrectly correlated to things like wraiths or banshees across Tamriel. (My justification for Wispmothers just APPEARING everywhere in ESO.) This has been my Ted-Talk.
Didn't.....didn't fudgemuppet *make* a video on that? Was that Nate maybe? Idk I forget.
@@HaydenPlaysGames They made one a little while back, but I can't find who did the video I'm thinking of.
Interesting thought since you mentioned Nords maybe hiding snow elves, maybe certain Nordic wizard families had secret snow-elf blood
"And then Yssgrimoor pulls a shocked pikachu like 'oh you what? Lets go boiiiisss!"" im dedddd :D
Ikr
Oh wow didn't think you watch fudge muppet
I’m impressed how much I’ve learned about the lore from listening to fudge muppet videos. I’ve never played an ES game and yet I know basically everything y’all are saying. After learning about the ice elves and Falmer a month ago- I was very concerned about their deteriorating situation underground. I felt like they got it the short straw. I hope they’ll rise again.
Well no I'm pretty sure I murdered the entire falmer population in skyrim
Why kill the 2nd? He is a fine guy.
A bit useless tho.
@@p.samedi2473 Mods
he's pretty powerful actually
Pelinal would be proud!
Ysgimor would like to know your location
I can see them evolving to utilise Dwemer tech
Last time I was this early, the falmer were still snow elves
considering how nords are typically agressive and raiding, it's possible they were raiding the falmer, which the nords considered 'peaceful coexistance' but the falmer considered warring.
I love the snow elves especially the snow Prince
To be fair, Children can’t be killed in Skyrim..so there wasn’t much he can do about the kid except ignore her..if only he mastered the ancient magic known as “console commands”
It's a shame we can't f8nd his spear and armor in the dragonborn dlc
@@steakinbacon8593
I know. Skyrim was gonna add Spears to the game originally, but for some reason, well Bethesda scrapped the idea, unfortunately.
If they did, I feel they'd have added the Snow Prince's tomb and his armor and Spear.
Hope, with the Dragonborn, as an actual VIP of Skyrim, the Snow Elves will be a part of Skyrims Society in the Future.
Hey, what about an Episode about the Alessian Order and what they did (Pushing Out Minotaurs, Dragon Break and Stuff)?
The death of the Snow Prince resembles the death of Greek General Pyrrus. Legend holds that he was killed by a mother who threw a roof tile at his head as he was about to kill her son.
And the way the Nords honoured him with a funeral makes me think of the way the allies gave the Red Baron a funeral with full military honours during WW1. He was shot down by a random machine gunner on the ground.
Why didn't the Snowelves take the Eye of Magnus when they invaded Sarthal.?
Two pronged answer: The nords successfully kept it safe in secrecy. Second, the snow elf objective was genocide. We know how well that worked.
They probably couldn't move it themselves. It's an extremely powerful artifact so only powerful mages can handle it, like the master mages of Winterhold and off course, the Psijic order.
Yhh but if you invade and kill the Nords why not take it they are magically capable in my opinion 🤔
Who's carrying that 😄
@@orwellgood7545 They could use some kind of telekinesis magic
Its funny how yall all admit most of the info comes from the perspective of Nords who hate them, then you spend several minutes trying to make a different perspective from an actual Snow Elf fit the Nordic propaganda by saying "well we could adjust the timeline or maybe it refers to this" because you've long accepted the Nord perspective as absolute. :)
But I guess thats what these podcasts are for, its all good, it was just interesting.
Yeah, for all we know all waht ysgramor wrote could be bullshit
Every time someone says "well they deserved it because they just slaughtered the Atmorans unprovoked", I'm pretty irritated (Fudgemuppet didn't do that, but it's a common comment). We know TES has the unreliable narrator which makes it a lot like the real world - almost nothing is set in stone, and all of that history was written by the victors, who /hate/ the Snow elves' guts, and elves in general. They were free to write whatever they want, and even what we've got is very sparse.
We have no idea what happened before the attack on Saarthal. It could have been retaliation against violence from the Atmorans.
Yeah, true. There is SO much stuff they glossed over and never took into consideration, and them proceed to call them Cowards all based off of the supposed word of the Atmorans who they trust are truthful in their depiction of the situation with the Night of Tears.
@@Aethuviel "Every time someone says "well they deserved it because they just slaughtered the Atmorans unprovoked", I'm pretty irritated."
I agree, it's such silly reason. They deserved it, because they were elves.
It would be pretty cool if in the Tes 6 they expanded on the lesser know mer such as the sea elves and maybe they could bring in the lost tribs of the snow elves and that could shed light on what the dwemer were really like and what really happened with certain events
I love this podcast so much, like now I know more about TES lore than real life lore and I have a major in History, keep it up guys. Much love from Mexico
I think you guys should have mentioned the possibility of them having somewhere secret enclaves . Gelebor mentions that too.
Edit: Also don’t forget those mysterious paragons that are used as keys to secret areas. Maybe there is a whole population hidden that way!
One question I have always had as far as the Snow Elves attacking Saarthal for the Eye of Magnus is, why did they not take the Eye and transport it to a more secure and fortified location where they might be able to protect it?
Perhaps Ysgramor and his sons slew the last of the attackers.
Or perhaps they were going to build a sacred place as a final act for Auriel/Magnus before they unmade the world, but the Companions arrived too quickly.
Or maybe they were preparing to move it to the Chantry, but they delayed too long until the Companions came.
I love how you each specialize in something for the most part each woth differing opinions and you all work off of each others statements and opinions to provide, not good, but great original content. I love you guys so much makes work, sleeping, and elder scrolling more enjoyable!
I know it was on purpose, but you were definitely underselling the snow elves at the end there. Has any other civilization developed teleportation portals to that scale? And their losing seems to be a case of a severely bad matchup - Nords probably have LESS resistance to the ice and cold than Atmorans would have so the elves' offensive magic is right out from the start. Plus it seems pretty likely that Ysgrammor was being helped out by dragons considering there's no transition period between the snow elf genocide and establishing the dragon cults. Also it's kinda strange to criticise their decision to accept blindness with the dwemer rather than just leaving when their total absence should tell you that the ones that left Skyrim emphatically did NOT make it.
Im obssesd with the snow elfs lore after meeting gelebor yesterday, its just such a sad story for them, yes they killd the nords but even so i dont think their fate had to be this cruel and hellish, i dont know i just feel bad for them i hope there are still hunderds of snow elfs alive in tammriel
Im pretty sure ysgramor got help from the dragons. I think i saw somewhere that the hidden dragon priests mask(the one where you travel dimension and put all mask there) was his
It would be cool to see some of the Falmers be turned back into actual Snow Elves, maybe with the help of the one remaining Snow Elf.
Or, just as cool, they could evolve into a new race, intelligent and developed enough to form a civilization, while keeping Falmer-ish traits (their appearance, blindness, an affinity with alchemy...). They could use choruses the same way other races use horses and cattle for example.
Maybe it could be done by using Dwemer technology and magic, after all they are the ones who fashioned the Snow Elves into Falmers.
It would be awesome and ironic if the Falmers were to build their future in the underground cities of the civilization who betrayed, biologically modified and enslaved them...
@Rose's Zen Garden Yeah he did ! :) That would be so freaking cool !
The Falmer should interact with the Hist. Maybe they'll be part of the hive-mind-esque argonians and be able to have sight
Skyrim belong to the Snow Elves!
Too bad they make Snow Elves as an extinct race in Skyrim, surely Skyrim will be more beautiful with Snow Elves buildings and cities. Well, they're Elves, what is not beautiful about them?
@@MizanQistina
*glares in Pelinal*
@@MizanQistina Begone with you, knife-eared scoundrel!
Elves are the original populace of the world...human are evil aliens who invade and want to dominate the beautiful Nirn...
@@MizanQistina
I've always said this. Snow Elves would make for a MUCH better, more advanced Skyrim.
I mean, they were said to be nearly on Par with the High Elves of Summerset in terms of civilization and sophisticated technology. And look at what the Nords have done? Nothing. Skyrim is now a rundown, backwater province of Tamriel and only has a few small, crappy cities to live in.
Snow Elves living would've made for a far better race of Skyrim, no question.
I have this feeling that the story of a little girl killing the Snow Prince is just a little too convenient. It's a good story to show that even the weakest member of society can be strong, but really? The prince was probably shot in the back by an arrow because he was otherwise unbeatable and the little girl story was just made up to sound nice.
The entire ysgramor story is implausible and too convenient though. I always considered the tragedy of snow elves as an awesome concept, but it’s very poorly written as a fanfic for nords. The only thing that makes this entire 500 companions and child killing a warrior like no other by throwing sword at him bullshit plausible is the fact Sai, god of luck, failed in his duty and gave all luck in the world to atmorans and nords - even the nordic empire existed only because of his mistakes. And we know that because god’s including both human and elven deities punished him, although that story too is written down by a nord
@@Walsinats4
I fully agree, Bethesda had a Nord hard-on when writing this, they dropped the ball on the Falmer so heavily that it makes me wonder if they made the story so half-assed just to get that part of the DLC over with, cause like... so much empty history, and the fact it's all from a human perspective means a lot of history was skewed in their favor.
The Snow Elves get so much hate despite the fact we know so little from there side of the story.
I think he let his guard down around her, because she was the weakest opponent.
@@mitchryan257 Sometimes the most simple response is the best one, and not just the knobish "bEtHeSdUh HaRd On 4 DuH nOrDz!" tripe.
I would have believed the story if the girl actually stabbed it instead of throwing the sword towards the Snow Prince.
You know, random thought here, but I thought it was kind of weird that a winter style race would be so associated with light, but up here in Canada and I assume anywhere else that has a lot of snow there's a thing called snow blindness where the sun reflects off the snow and ice, at times it feels exactly like staring into the sun with how blinding it can be.
So perhaps the snow elves were always blind.
YES, who needs sunday television when you have content such as this
This is probably my favorite podcast. I've been binging while cleaning my house 🖤☺
I find it strange that it is the staff of a dragon priest is the only weapon you can against the Eye of Magnus, to weaken Ancano. This staff being in Labrinthian, where Shalidor made his test of magic, and you encounter a shrine and mask that allows you to travel through time and acquire Konahrik, the war lords mask. How that eras later the Eye was found on a pedestal, stable, and sealed inside a Saarthal that masked the Eye, that could only be entered by wearing an enchanted Nord amulet and breaking through a wall. Apparently the magic of the ancient nords was powerful enough to seal away an artifact that belonged to arguably one of the most powerful entities in elder scrolls, something above all Aedra, all Daedra, the head of the Magna Ge, Magnus. If the Eye was so precious and powerful to the snow elves, why was it left in Saarthal and allowed to be sealed away and why was the Nords who usually detested magic the ones able to perform the sealing and stabilization of the Eye? More importantly, how did they acquire it in the first place? It wasn't just lying on the ground or buried in the dirt.
They probably had their own little communities sort of like the greyquarter in windhelm and the statue could've been built at the center of their community as a symbol of who they are
These podcasts are the best keep up the great work guys. :D
I'm amazed at the depth of knowledge and passion you have for the lore of es. I actually played es for the first time ever w skyrim (long story as to why I never got into it) about a year ago, and I can now, thanks to you guys, call myself a true fan.
This series is just awesome, thanks Fudgemuppet.
Still haven’t missed an episode of the podcast, best way to start my Sunday’s
The Falmer remind me so much Gollum/Smeagol 🧐 and how he was corrupted in the caverns of Misty Mountain
Sorry for being late on the podcast but I'm watching them all now great work on everything. Love the lore and the games
I would love to play as a snow elf! 🥰
How come you never mention the fact they owned two of auriel's artifacts and considering how powerful auriel's bow was meant to be considering it literally snuffs out magnus's light it seems like a very important thing to mention
My canon is that Falmer are Old Ehlnofey of Atmora, who built Altmora alongside Auriel, and were driven to Skyrim to become the Snow Elves.
I could listen to Drews reading voice for hours
Salut
@@thegodofmischief8141 salut ma, ce ai facut cu mihai?
@@DavisSystems eu am murit ca o p0la si el saracul a vrut sa vina dar bulangii de comunisti ne-au tras in teapa.....Bruhhh
Apropo este super tare ca mai sunt Romani care se joaca Skyrim sau Oblivion:))))
In Dialogue with Gelebor, he really only mentions the Falmer taking over the Chantry. While he is very old, he might not be as old as initially thought.
So glad I got home from work in enough time to watch this!
Oh the dark ages of fudgemuppet glad to see just Micheal and Scott nowadays
i love how the snow elves just roasts anyone who couldn't finish the pilgrimage. they're taking your money, your dignity and keeping your ticket with no refunds.
There's a Reddit post that showing the frozen Falmer surrounding the shrine of Auri-El inside the chantry. I checked it and it's true. They were even holding precious things and the shrine itself were surrounded with these precious things. It's kinda obvious that they were trying to get back to their worship to Auri-El and they were frozen by Vyrthur because he doesn't want them to worship him due to him trying to get his revenge. Now that Vyrthur is dead, there's no stopping the Falmer there to start worshiping Auri-El again.
If youre wondering how the snow elves/falmer fought the war of the crag for so long, take a look at irl historical accounts of conflicts in mountain regions. For example, Afghanistan or Vietnam.
Also, glad I finally had time to watch and listen. Love channel gentlemen.
I'm reallllly hoping they will expand upon the Falmer in the future. I know its unlikely that we will ever go back to Skyrim in future installments, but I think it would be really cool if they explore it in ESO
if you give the eye to the guild and stand in front of the desk near them for a bit they will flicker in a weird way i thought it was due to a nearby torch but its not as the one nearby is blocked from the eye and the eye sits in a darker spot than the other items you give and it only starts to happen if you hang out near the area after a few in game weeks of them being there
Ooga booga.
I always felt really sad for the Falmer/Snow Elves. I’d like to see their race make a come back. Judging my Gelebor, they seemed to be some of the longest living types of Mer. Maybe to do with their element of Ice.
Their natural life span is likely not nearly as long as how long Gelebor lived. His extended life span is probably because of Auri-El. Auri-El likely gave Gelebor his extended life span so that Gelebor may continue to do his duties forever, as there is no one else left to protect the sanctuary nor to guide people to enlightenment.
@@SgtMcpancake we’re assuming that Auri-el gave him immortality though. For all we know, Snow Elves just have greater lifespans naturally.
I'm still curious about the potential surviving pockets of the non corrupted snow elves that Gelebor mentioned. Could they eventually make a return?
Whaaat if because the Snow Elves have been separated from their chief deities, or at least their interpretations, THAT is why they degenerated. Like you were saying about going against themselves, without they influences of Auriel and Magnus, they slowly lose their connection to their Gods and transform into the creatures they are. Maybe a curse, maybe just because they no longer have that divine touch, THATS why they’ve also lost their richness of their souls. Just something to think about.
Most fun I’ve had listening to one of your podcasts. I really enjoyed how you guys loosened up and indulged in some hilarious running jokes. Grateful for you guys. Please keep up the rich discussions.
The snow elves are some of my favorite elves because of the mystery behind a lot of their early lore. To the point were I actually ran a dnd game based in tamriel that was all about the snow elves and their history before their war with the nords then moving into that war with the 500 companions. In this alternate universe they did not go blind lol.
I just got back in from a 2 day drive back from vacation and gave y’all’s podcast all a listen to on the journey love them keep up the good work guy love all yall’s work!
Falmers were so cursed and unlucky that seeing how Azura cursed the entire race of Chimer and Orsimer's turning into orcish looking race looks pale in comparison. These guys literally nerfed into a near ooga booga specimens.
I get the whole “the Falmer weren’t as great as everyone thought they were” bit at the end but at the height of their civilisation they must have had *something* that would make them enough of a threat to the point where the Dwemer, when its no secret they didn’t like each other, still maintained an uneasy peace was the best option meanwhile they were swinging their dicks about amd building megazords to fight the Chimer.
My theory is that it was all based on magic and Aedric/Magnic artefacts. Like they weren’t a particularly strong race on their own, they were much more focused on spiritualism and cultural advancements over anything military, but they had in their possession these great powerful artefacts as part of their rituals like the Eye of Magnus that, if unleashed, could still be devastating. Essentially they had a bunch of nuclear deterrents owned by the clergy but a very unsubstantial military outside of that. This would also explain the Night of Tears. If the Nords managed to (accidentally or not) swipe one of these relics out from under them like the Eye, then the Falmer would rightfully start shitting themselves. Since outside of the relics they were weak militarily and given their knowledge of the potential uses of the Eye, it would then also make sense for them to do everything they could to sneak in and kill everyone they could and retrieve it again before the Nords even knew what they were there for. This would also partially explain the Snow Prince and the weird way he died. In his statue he is portrayed as having no sword but a staff, so he was absolutely a mage and likely a high ranking priest. However, given their culture he was likely more adept at support magic as opposed to destructive schools. He could have been a bolster to the troops because he could do things like cast mass blessings on armies or use alteration to improve their armour and weapons. It could then be the case that using direct combat spells drained him more and it was simply a trick of the timing that he had just at that point run out of mana or his staff had run out of charge so it was a crucial moment of defencelessness when he was killed. If he was there to wield supportive magic on the rest of the troops, that would then explain why the entire army basically fell apart after he died. They weren’t receiving his blessings anymore and thus their confidence and ability was shattered. With the loss of the last glimmer of hope in a great priest of Auriel, they then had to turn to ritual to try and be blessed with someone else to save their people, hence the mass exodus of all their people to the caves under the Dwemer. Its kind of head canony but its all based of what their culture has been presented as being like while trying to explain their solid foothold in Skyrim despite their apparent weakness and need for underhanded tactics
Gelebor, did mention snow elves seeking other alliances, could some have fled to the seek help from the chimer. They would have integrated, only to become dunmer when Azura cursed them all.
31:00 theres a high elf from summerset in ravenrock during the bloodmoon expansion that claims to be a decedent of of the snow elves.
Maybe it was because ethe eye of Magnus that the snow elves needed to stay in Skyrim. Possibly they felt that the nords couldn’t have the eye and needed the lands of Skyrim to reclaim it and “remake the world”