MIKE MENTZER AND THE SCIENCE OF HEAVY DUTY TRAINING
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- Опубліковано 5 кві 2024
- To learn more about Mike Mentzer's teachings please visit: www.hituni.com/about/mike-men...
Recently, Mike Mentzer’s “Heavy Duty” training method has been attacked by those who favour a more traditional high volume approach, citing studies by exercise science researchers such as Dr. Brad Schoenfeld. Although Schoenfeld doesn’t advocate the 20 sets per body part training that Arnold Schwarzenegger and others embrace, his conclusions on the matter seem to have been accepted by many people without further investigation. In this video, the major principles of Mike’s training system are presented by Mike himself, along with reams of science studies in support of his conclusions. The criticism that Mike’s method is “out of date” is shown to be unfounded.
Even more impressive, Mike came to his conclusions long before many of these studies were published, which shows that the data he analyzed from his clients, along with his logical thinking, resulted in conclusions that we’re truly ahead of his time, and that are only now being recognized by the scientific community.
Special thanks to John Balik for permission to use his copyrighted images of Mike Mentzer in this video.
To see more of Mike Mentzer check out these videos by Wayne Gallasch of GMV:
MIKE & RAY MENTZER TRIPLE PACK DVD SET (V-209SP-DVD) tinyurl.com/ym4vdkta
MIKE & RAY MENTZER - GYM WORKOUT DOWNLOAD (V-121) tinyurl.com/2ua7p8rj
MIKE MENTZER - FINAL CHAPTER DOWNLOAD (V-208) tinyurl.com/yc4efn8y
Mike is right 100%
110%. I wasted 30 years with volume. And in the last 18 months I've made more progress than the previous 30. The man was the TRUTH..
Mike Mentzer protocols is Red Pill for working out.
Some of his training principals work. But I think more volume is needed for some individuals, myself included.
@@sirsmotealot7915 it’s not. You’re not doing it as prescribed if it’s not working.
@@sirsmotealot7915you also have to include all the warmup sets before failure set
That's come out to the intensity of your session.
The more intense your training the less volume is needed.
You.can only micro-tear a muscle so much.
Anything after that is over training.
@@sirsmotealot7915 you also have to count all the warmup sets before failure
I am 66 years old. I started weight lifting for football in 1972. I remember how it slowly dawned on me that the exercise protocols in Muscle & Fitness and Flex were impossible to maintain unless every pro bodybuilder who was following them was on steroids. I was unaware of the amount of lying going on at the time. I started following the 3 sets of 8 to 12 reps for each body part 3 times a week. I got stronger but progress was very slow. Today the same crowd of juiced up dudes are promoting high volume training and saying that the research supports it. I have yet to read any distinction in these studies between natural and juiced individuals. The studies that support HIT do differentiate. I am now following HIT and getting stronger quickly. I am grateful for the sites like this that have given Mike Mentzer's training philosophy and the science that supports it new life.
Thanks for your post.
I am 48 tried everything and this has been by far the best. Also I have more free time.
Juice only does so much if you still don’t have the genetics. Being at your age, it wouldn’t even be steroids-It would simply be hormonal regulation.
John Little you are an absolute godsend to this community, thanks
Thanks for the kind words - and for your post.
John we are all indebted to your relentless push. To keep Mike's legacy and truth alive. And bring it into a new birth. A new renaissance. To enlighten new generations. I knew within weeks of training HIT. Mike Mentzer was the real deal. And the man was ridiculed and ostracised in his lifetime. We are honored and grateful that you were a true friend to him in his darkest times.
And the integrity. And pure truth that ran through his veins. The pure logic. Can now educate those still being led down the wrong path by their training and thinking. Keep going John your editing in these videos is amazing, emotive and inspirational.
And its causing a tidal wave of interest, curiosity and awakening for thousands of weight trainers. And has rumbled the naysayers so much. They are now reveling and trying to save face with their flawed beliefs. And dishonest financial motives. Its a thing of beauty to see.
@@stevemann1299 Thanks for your kind words, support and for your post!
11:08 "Recovery only returned to 80% after 14 days". And then Mike M says 11:11 "Most of my clients are making great progress training 72 hours". I would guess that some of those 72 hour clients are on steroids -- for faster recovery. I discovered your books in 2007, John. I'm very grateful. Off and on since then, I've employed Max Contraction -- or High Intensity. For me, my recovery (without steroids) seems to vary from 7 days (before repeating the same muscle) to 30 days. Life would get busy, and before I knew it 30 days had passed. I would exercise that same muscle and still see an improvement. I'm enjoying this channel very much. Variety is the spice of life, so currently I'm trying Mike's split routine -- 1) chest & back, 2) arms & shoulders, 3) legs. I'm giving no less than 5 days between each of those 3 workouts -- so, for me, that would be 15 days before I repeat chest & back, for example.
Anyway, it's working -- ever since I discovered you in 2007. I guess my point is that recovery rate can be highly variable depending on different factors. And I think your videos and books say the same. Keep the videos coming please. Thanks.
Thanks for your post and for the kind words. Some of Mike's clients (not a large number) did use steroids, but he used negatives very infrequently with them, particularly in the late 1990s as he discovered that they simply weren't able to recover. Interesting that you sometimes require much more time to recover than one week - I have found that myself.
Many people always say that studies disprove that one set is better, but they are missing one thing. If you look closely at the studies supporting multiple sets over one, you will see that they do not track intensity, so if we are operating under the assumption that intensity determines growth then we cannot use those studies.
Plus, it's not really "one set" since they perform a couple of "warm up" sets.
High intensity training is the most efficient way to build muscle and get stronger. We understand clearly that other training techniques exist and they might be productive but HIT is the most efficiency way. As simply as that.
Mike heartedly hoped for dramatic revolution in the sport after the tapes with Bill Phillips. Well, that finally happened, sadly after his time, but his legacy will live on for good.
Thanks for your post.
18 year old here, i can say that this has worked for me and i remember when i made the switch to HIT. I remember doing the preacher dumbbell curl for 35 and i couldn’t get it up when i had previously done it the last “back and biceps” day. I grew frustrated and wondered why i wasn’t progressing and I found Mike mentzer. His advice and training and nutrition videos helped me so much and I started progressing!
Thanks for your post.
How long did you trained before hit? And what is your heavy duty routine if I may ask?
Heavy duty program came up in my feed many times, i just thought it was just another stupid training techniques these top bodybuilders are preaching , but then i saw one of these shorts and was shocked how mike is preaching just 1 set for muscle growth.
I then saw more shorts on mike mentzer training style and read his book . I'm just glad that i clicked on that short. Now I'm finally making gains after 3 years of stagnant progress and overtraining. Principles of heavy duty training is as logical as mathematics.
I can't believe how overtrained i was , my weight was decreasing like crazy from 77 to 71 and 69. Now im at 83kg feeling strong as hell. I even got flu like condition very often despite 2 rest days between my workouts. My immunity had gone down because of overtraining. I took a month of rest and started HIT.
I just had a full body workout( 1 set to failure/ exercise, 6 exercises total) , I'm super sore as i write this.
When you understand that effective working out is actually literally training your nervous system (not muscles) by applying stress, the only way to go is to start High Intensity Training.
EXACTLY! Finally someone. Individual types of exercises, frequency, number of sets, number of repetitions, blah, blah, nothing is more important than ALL IN, true failure 1 set once a week. And then genetics gives you what it gives you.
@@8MWm3e4b I hope it's consolidation workout :)
I do 1 set of timed chinups, dips and wall squats. I increase the time by a couple of seconds every 14 days. I never quit early.
This channel changed my life in the best way possible.
So many people at the gym everyday, you can tell they got there an hour before you got there and are still at it when you walk out. But they lift with zero intensity. They quit their sets as soon as it gets tough so they have gas left in the tank for the next set.
But all that time spent just going through the motions makes them look exactly the same over time.
Meanwhile, my body (and mind) has changed in a big way over the past year just doing 20min of HIT 2-3 times a week all because I came across one of John's videos.
Congratulations on your progress and thanks for your post.
My experience with hit sure as hell tracked with what you are stating. i started out emulating mikes early routines which were total body workouts employing 2 sets to failure 3x a week..it was so taxing i would collapse when i got home. I quickly stopped making gains and actually got sick.when I backed off to split routines 4x a week, i made better gains. But i still felt burned out all the time.. in retrospect i never gave myself adequate recovery time as mike later expounded and you so aptly described here..
Thanks for your post.
Im on my second week doing high intensity training, and I finally see results!!!!
Mr.Little this may be the best videos on the Topic i ever watched. Thank you for your work!
Thanks. I'm glad it was helpful.
I think the best piece of advice anyone interested in HIT can receive is just try it. Don't be victim to "paralysis by analysis." Doing something is better than nothing guys, and HIT is more than enough to help you build a good physique.
Thanks for this John, takes a lot of material and makes it concise for the newbies.
You're welcome. I'm glad you found it helpful.
+9 experience, during that time I experimented with pretty much every split, routine etc.. the best sustainable results I got overall is from finding a sweet spot between Mike’s and Dorian’s methodologies.
Am of the same mind, and looking for zat sweet spot u mentioned b/n mentored n Dorian can u tell me what you did if it’s not an imposition??
Incredible video, John. Literally backed up by evidence.
Thanks. I’m glad you enjoyed it.
Fantastic video!
In preparing my summer routine the other day, I am increasing my workout frequency from once every 7 days (what I am doing now) to once every 4 days. As a result, my upper body work load of 6 work sets per workout will be cut to 3.
My lower body workload of 3 work sets (4 if abs are included) will increase to 4 by adding squats to my leg extension-leg press superset and the one calf work set. To mitigate the stress some, I will be dropping the 1 set of direct ab work I am currently doing on leg day.
In essence it will be a push, legs, pull, legs sequence.
Workout 1
Chest, Anterior Delts, Triceps :
PecDec 1×6-10
Superset
Hammer Incline Press 1×1-4
Tricep Pressdowns 1×6-10
Rest 4 days
Workout 2
Legs:
Leg Extensions 1×8-15
Superset
Leg Press 1×8-15
Squats 1×4-8
Toe Presses 1×12-20
Rest 4 days
Workout 3
Back, Med/Post. Delts, Biceps, Forearms
Overhead Cable Pullover 1×6-10
Superset
Close Grip Palms Up Pulldowns 1×6-10
Yates Rack Rows 1×1-4
Rest 4 days
Workout 4
Legs:
Leg Extensions 1×8-15
Superset
Leg Press 1×8-15
Squats 1×4-8
Toe Presses 1×12-20
Rest 4 days
Repeat sequence.
Basically I will do this sequence and frequency from June 4th-July 18th, take 2 weeks off, then resume from August 1st-September 30th.
At that point, I will take 2 more weeks off then start a fall protocol. I will decide at that point if I want to keep an every 4 day frequency or increase the rest days between workouts to 5, 6, or 7 days.
I am 51 years old and my recuperative powers are not what they once were. (I trained late 70s Mentzer style HD 4-5 days a week in my early to mid 20s and 90s Mentzer style HD 3 days a week in my 30s before essentially taking my 40s off.) However, I would like to see if I can continue to regularly progress on an every 4 day protocol as outlined above.
Fitness industry gonna have beef with this video
Another banger! Thank you, Mr. Little! Can we get a video of this format highlighting the effects of "bulking" & how it's best to stay lean? When Mike said the really big bodybuilders can't eat anything or else they get fat very easily was a revelation for me.
Thanks for your post. Glad you liked the video. I don't really have much data from my archive about Mike's views on the topic you suggested. I do know that he wasn't in favour of bulking/cutting, but believed you should try to stay relatively lean throughout the year and, if you're a competitive bodybuilding, tighten up on your diet to become leaner before a contest.
Fascinating video. I enjoy the presentation style you are using because it is clear, thorough and complete in its own. Well done.
Thank you John as you promised a week ago you were going to release a comprehensive in sight into the scientific research studies into Mike's work. This must have taken a great deal of work and we appreciate it immensely. I have no doubt or reservations of this training to be the most productive and yes Mike was definitely ahead of the curve. For the no believer's an interesting quote from Arthur Jones once said you can proof someone's opinion wrong and like an ostrich they will stick there head in the sand. Once again thank you for your hard work Mike would be smiling just like he would when he was here with you 😊
Thanks for your post and I’m glad you enjoyed the video.
Glad you put this video out. I noticed that videos people put out trying to disprove Mike by doing the workout and saying they didnt get results didnt train to failure and expect to see results in 2days.Then you have people like that bodybuilder that claims to be a doctor trying to discredit Mike like he does to everyone else but real had no prof how or why Heavy Duty doesn't work.
Can't wait to watch this
Im going to sound like professor obvious but there is probably some merit in both HIT and a multi set program.
I am aware that science is exacting but as I have got older Iv also come realise that in most areas there are large grey areas.
Mikes doctrine has been a huge help to me especially his recognition regarding the negative effects of overtraining.
Thanks for posting John its much appreciated
You're very welcome. All the best.
This like all your content John is outstanding, THANKYOU.
Thanks very much.
Wow i cant imagined the work that you put in this video thank you john i hope this video will shut the mouth of those blind people that trying to impact high intensity training ❤ thank you again.
You're welcome. Thanks for your post.
Thank you John.
The supreme irony is that Mike was bigger, harder and denser then both of them and he stopped training while they are still are
Fantastic, well done,I don't know how you do it, very inspiring 👍💪💪💪💯
Thank you very much!
Incredible video! Thanks so much!
You're welcome. Glad you liked it.
I train Saturday, half body, and Sunday the remaining bodypart.
Thats it, i do more volume in each session but i am still growing just 2 days per week.
IT WORKS IF YOU TRAIN INTENSELY.
I had a showerthought if there is any merit to that old broscience saying that "cardio kills gains", because i remember mike saying along the lines that human body has 100 points of adaptability that can be allocated to muscle size or endurance. And cardio being aerobic it would eat up recoverability and prolonging recovery time and or growthprogress, had they even stimulated growth before the bros go back to the gym and train again without having properly recovered thus killing their gains.
Yeah I think that’s what it was.
It’s true of everything else. You can spend 8 hours in a day driving, 6 hours laying bricks, 10 hours in front of a computer, but whatever you do, if you do the Max for one of these activities, and then just do two hours of one of the others you will be exhausted the next day. So the marginal cost of going over your limit however you spend it, you might feel fine coz you swapped activity, but adding anything to a full day is way higher cost per hour than its normal cost.
It's not really "one set". Mike uses a couple of "warm up" sets. It's really a three set system with the last set using a weight appropriate to reach failure.
It’s the one working set that stimulates growth (both per Mike’s counsel and the studies cited in the video ), unless you think using a light weight for an arbitrary number of reps simply to get blood circulating stimulates growth. And for some people, if the repetitions are performed smoothly and under full muscular control at all times, they may not need any warm-up sets at all. As Mike said, warm-up needs vary, with some people requiring more of a warm-up, and others requiring very little, if any.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Maybe you didn't read what I wrote. You're arguing against a straw man of your own making.
@@datmeme8967 Maybe, although it isn't "really a three set system."
Amazing work john !
Many thanks!
Hey John, I hope that you enjoyed Easter., It's good that you are addressing this stuff as Mike isn't around to respond to the confusion.
Another issue that comes up often is, Where are the bodies? As in, Mike Mentioned that his trainees achieved great results but there aren't pictures on his regular genetic clients.
I know that you're writing a book on M Mentzer, When will it be available for purchase?
Best
Thanks, I hope you enjoyed Easter as well. It won't be out for probably a year I'm guessing.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEThanks. Ah okay, thanks for the heads up
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEi am sure every one has a lot of hype for that book...
New insigts?
Never seen before pictures and lectures?...
There will certainly be new insights and a few photos you might not have seen before. No new lectures though.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE maybe like in this video.
Like, a thing Mike said and then evidence to back it up?
Thaks for ur time and content
The last rep taken to failure is your money (growth) rep.
Hi, john little. I've been training Heavy duty for a year now with unbelievable gains. But when I saw the video of mike telling boyer coe that he thinks he will get 3 reps plus on nearly all of his exercises, it got me thinking that I am not utilizing heavy duty to its full potential as i normally increase my reps by 1, ocasionally 2, and very rarely 3 reps, but never more then 3.
I train 1 day on followed by 2 rest days. On the rest days I do 30 min of walking for cardio. I train every exercise to full muscular failure (cant do full positive). On exercises that i can't do negatives on (inclide dumbell) , i do 1 drop set to mimic assisted reps. I also add partials to some exercises like dumbell laterals and occasionally do extra negatives on certain exercises where appropriate. I just started going on a calorie deficit as i am overweight, and I've mostly managed to maintain muscle thus far. Can you pinpoint where i can improve further? I trust your work as this channel has worked miricles for me. Thank you for your help.
I’d scale back on using the negatives and partials, as the evidence would indicate that they dig a very deep hole in your recovery ability. And don’t compare yourself to other trainees, such as Boyer Coe, even a one to two rep improvement is good.
8:10 - Mike's description of having trainees do just a 'single extra rep' is very similar to how John Grimek described his training over the years. In an article (in the 90s, I believe), he mentioned that, after completing his regular work, if he felt that an area needed more, he might do one or two extra reps (heavy reps) for it - not an entire extra set. It certainly seemed to have worked for him.
Hi John. Have you ever tried to track down this client of Mikes for an interview? I would love to hear what he has to say.
Once the light switch is on, why would you want to continue to turn it on and off? The light is not going to get any brighter.
Roids and other peds are what allow you to maximize the potential of your personal training regimen.
But if you train incorrectly, peds will give you practically nothing.
There are hundreds of thousands of steroid users among amateurs, but you would never guess it from their appearance.
The reason is that they train incorrectly.....
Arnold was a genetic annomally to steroids with high volume
Consider that from the day he was born he had a better diet and rural approach to mealtimes and rest times. Real farmers who eat well and have huge long lunches and small dinners could rival Arnold if Arnold had not also jiuced up.
Time ⏲️ is a judge 👨⚖️ incorruptible
"Speak the truth, and time will be your eloquence." - Will Durant
John this is absolutely fantastic and what Mike would say “irrefutable” evidence in support of productive exercise
Thank you. 🙏
Great video!
Thanks!
Another aspect of this 100 % intensity is slow reps with correct form , the result is you are slowly stretching the fascia around the muscle. Your muscle may not grow as quickly if ir doesn't have the room to grow.
I would like to see that part of his advice tested
I'm not sure that was Mike's advice (re fascia stretching)?
se consigue el diario personal de entranamiento de mike?
Wait. So Arnie the politician was full of shit??? Ya don't say lol😂 I love how no one can tell me Mike Mentzer wasn't a genius.
All persons who have the protestant work ethic and the spirit of enquiry can be like Mike. Mike’s gift to us was that he added to that a combative attitude to Dogma and authority, lacking in most scientism cult members today.
💯
Hi John. I used Mike's protocol but I took a rest of 48 hours only between workouts. It worked fantastic for a month and I visibly gained great size. But I fell ill for 2 weeks immediately after and now I seem to have reduced size. Can I regain the size again soon or will it take a lot of work? This seems to happen often. I get a cold or fever and things go back to square one.
If the size was muscle resulting from training it will come back fairly quickly.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE interesting. What else could be the reason?
@@jyothiradithyaiyer506 Fluid loss (muscle is over 70% water), which is not uncommon when one is more sedentary due to a cold or flu.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE thank you. I appreciate your work. It is extremely useful.
It's extremely difficult to push yourself to utter failure and then have a partner complete the contraction phase so you can suffer more through the negative for two or three additional controlled reps. But when you do, over the following two to three days, you'll realize why Mike was correct. Or at least more correct than the vast majority of people giving instruction on strength training were or have been.
The right stuff💪💪💪💪
what does mike think of drop-sets?
🐐🐐🐐
Most things Mike recommended was for natural hormone producing humans. Not supra physiological hormones surging via oil and orals.
Anyone knows the name of the background music? 🎶
The problem is there isn't much footage of him actually working out. Showing his entire routine. Or I can't find it.
That is a problem. Unfortunately, in all of my attempts to contact the television networks that profiled him back in the day, I was told that all of the footage of Mike has "disappeared."
It’s OK, it’s probably better that way. I would hate to see the draft notes to a dicken’s novel, or a roald dahl book. Better to just see the finished product, i.e. his period where he is training others.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE You thinks Arnold/Weider bought everything (like the full 1980 Mr.O) and has it hidden some were??
I hope that it is not destroyed
For naturals do mike menzer but if you juice use Arnold
Hallo John. Completely off topic . Something i always wonderd about is that in 1995 Mike as part of a twinlab creatine advertising campain Mike stated he was training seriously again. He also said that he will be ready for foto's soon. However this never materialise. I would have love to see him throw a few arm poses one last time. Did you see him at this time and what did he look like and train.
No, when this occurred I was living in Idaho and Mike was still in California. He did resume training, but it was only for a brief period. I (think) he found that training to develop the ultimate physique for competition was what had fired his passion; when he was essentially blacklisted from succeeding in competition, training just to "keep in shape" or "look good for his age" wasn't sufficient motivation.
Thank you
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE could this be depresion too?
Like a coping mecanism??
@@fromtheotherside1980 Quite possibly. As Mike did suffer from depression.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE Yeah, he had it rought.
I've read online that at one point he was eating the remaining of the food of some restaurants...
Is that true??
Everytime i read his live and how it went i cannot but fell fisical pain when i see how live went down for him...
He is a human, don't get me wrong, this can and does happen to the very best of us.
But he seam like he was really smart, but not in an cult-like smart (i mean intelectual fetish), he also seemed curius for new things to happen and make what he loved better.
On his Heavy Duty Journal he mentions 2 books in particular (i assume he rode them...)
1: Psycho-cybernetics (Maxwell Maltz) and 2: The act of Will (Roberto Assagioli)
This books, seem to be a bit, not much on what some people would call esoteric side...
(I am reading The act of Will rn btw)
And will read the other one too
What is your take on this books and how did this affected Mikes thinking, because this seem like quite powerfull books.
Books that can turn your life 180 dregress...
Just your opinión on that, thanks
The question becomes what is failure? I can't do another positive or negative rep but I can do a drop, s.s, rest-pause. Meaning I can keep going. So what is the true failure
Positive failure on the initial set. You can drop set until you're using a one pound weight, but that simply is an endurance building technique as it extends the exercise needlessly; it becomes an infinite regress that is not necessary. Nor is "total failure" (exhaustion of positive, static and negative strength) being discussed (as the recovery interval would be, according to the studies, weeks and weeks). No need to split hairs here; what Mike recommended (and what the evidence in the video indicates) is that one set taken to positive failure is sufficient to stimulate an increase in size and strength. Moreover, your genetics will determine your ultimate size and strength.
John thank you for speaking clearly on this. I had this question too.
Half-time of recovery 5-6 weeks for 3 sets to eccentric failure? That must be the worst genes and endocrine levels ever.
That may be, but the data is what it is.
wasnt mike using gear back in the day? Yet he still promoted the idea of taking days off from the gym when in reality he was recovering much quicker than a natural lifter
In reality, he discovered that steroids or not, he was still dealing with human physiology and that he required additional days off. That was when (1979-1980) he started taking two to three days off in-between his workouts. This applies even more so to the natural trainee.
Vinny, all the red skinned puffy heroes you see promoted in media, whether it’s the Thor guy, momoa, stallone, willis have all been on steroids. They don’t realise it but it changes their personality too. They get that “I’m a sarky touchy womanly prick” attitude. Just watch them in interviews, how sensitive and paranoid they are. Then when they’re back to normal, suddenly they’re easy going.
My point is, don’t make distinctions where there aren’t any. Huge but skinny, equals roids, always.
Groundbreaking people.... groundbreaking.... still don't buy the genetics argument... but still
I didn't get it about the only negatives. Can someone put it in simple words for me? xd
Negatives are a very intense training protocol. The studies indicate that even doing as few as three sets of negative only repetitions for the biceps muscles, required over two weeks to recover from.