2023 Ram HD Rebel vs. Power Wagon: One of These Trucks is the Off-Road KING, But Which One Is It?
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
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( www.alltfl.com ) Watch more videos from TFL Studios! In this video, Andre takes a look at the brand-new 2023 Ram 2500 HD Rebel in diesel and gas forms alongside the existing, Hemi-powered Power Wagon. Which one is the off-road king? Let's find out!
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#rebel #HD #ram
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 Intro
2:08 Hemi V8 HD Rebel
8:53 More about onX Offroad
9:35 Back to the HD Ram Rebel
10:52 Ram HD Rebel Diesel
19:31 Ram Power Wagon - Авто та транспорт
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, “I don’t need a Powerwagon but I want one”.
I have an 18. Best. Grocery. Getter Ever😂! I only get it off road a few times a yeah but it’s an incredible truck.
True. A few months ago I went into my local dealership to test drive a used Power Wagon, and I almost traded in my brand new 1500. A 1500 is everything I need but a Power Wagon is everything I want 😞
I want to buy one, but with war going on, fuel price will be $10.
Just got a 24 power wagon , sure is fun and love driving it , going to sell my trx
Better to have and not need than to need and not have.
Just awesome what the Power Wagon can do. Even the nearly 20 year old 2005 model is more capable than many trucks today. I’d go PW for my needs, but the Rebel is also a great truck. Hats off to Ram 👏
Prices are wild. I ordered a brand new 2021 Power Wagon and paid $53k (MSRP $60k). Level 1, 360 cameras, towing tech, dual alternators, bed utility group. Almost 30k miles with plenty of dents/scratches from the trails and zero issues. Towing 7k travel trailer too (thanks SumoSprings) with no complaints. Sold my Cummins and don’t miss it one bit, especially the emissions!
Power wagon having the winch cannot be underestimated. If you do heavy mudding, it's the only thing that is guaranteed to never get stuck in the mud
Yea just throw the hook in the mud and it will grab the dirt 😂
@@quentonmillstid850 there's gonna be a tree nearby unless youre in desert mud, which is very rare
You can have a winch installed from factory on the rebel… aftermarket is always an option too
@@quentonmillstid850 look into how to make a dirt anchor...js
Love my Power Wagon only down fall is the low payload. Other then that I love it!
I waited for Ram to release a package like this since Ford announced the Tremor. Between the low payload rating, the inability of running a winch with the Cummins, and not being available on a 3500 I went out and bought my first Ford in 25 years. Ram is so close to having the dominant truck. If they make the packages competitive and finally put a quality transmission behind the Cummins they will be the class leader. Until then, I will enjoy my fully optioned F350 Platinum Tremor with a 3300 lb payload.
Ford is trash
Steven Kane...........................There is BOTHING wrong with the AUTOMATICS in the Ram Cummins, nless you increase the power with a tuner! ALSO, the 1 tons that have the Aison transmission, is very reliable, and better than the Allison in the GM or Ford
@@1gr8oil The Aisin is a fantastic transmission, but it really needs weight to be appreciated. For guys who mainly tow it’s the perfect combo as long as you keep power levels close to stock. The Ford has a great all around transmission. Extremely refined compared to an Aisin which is perfect for a daily driver, weekend warrior.
I’ll stick with my 2017 Powerwagon. I pull my 7600lb holiday trailer twice a year only. Diesel trucks only make sense these days if your towing regularly here in Canada.
@@juiceybrucey3475 - diesel or gas Ford got ram beat in both. Power wagon towing numbers are way too low for a “heavy duty” truck.
Great video. Just gotta say.. Truck pricing is absurd these days.
I dig this channel! These guys have a great gig!! Testing all the new toys w/out having to buy them!! DREAM JOB!!
Power wagon is the ultimate Off road truck still. Draw back is the low payload but that can easily and inexpensively be fixed with some added air bags in the rear for the 5% of people who really need more capacity.
Tell that to the insurance company when your overloaded Ram is in an accident.
@@donrichter3523 Mine is never overloaded
My '16 PW is just about to turn 100k. I've had one problem, under warranty, a failed EVAP solenoid. It has been a great truck and is as unstoppable off-road as my 80 series Land Cruiser, though at over 9,300# loaded with a FWC, sliders, bumpers, yada - deep sand can be tricky. Payload, pfft... AirLift bags and Daystar cradles. Guys, don't get your panties in a bundle over rear spring rates.
The articulation of the PW is primary difference between it and other full-sized entries. Yes the lockers and winch are nice adders, but keeping the tires on the ground is key. I have a Able Components module in my '16 that will allow me to unlock the front swaybar at any speed (and also lock the front and rear at any speed, 2hi, 4hi, 4lo). I leave the front bar disconnected most of the time and enjoy a nice comfy ride, even with a Four Wheel Camper in the bed.
Вот!!! Воооооооот!!! Я не могу понять дурости, которой страдают ваши блогеры и обзорщики!!! Естественно Power Wagon будет лучше Rebel на бездорожье! Ходы подвески плюс блокировка переднего дифференциала! Вопрос насколько? И что ещё очень важно, какова разница между ними на асфальте! Power Wagon за счёт своей подвески ещё и на асфальте весьма неплох для рамного авто с мостами впереди и сзади! Грузоподъёмность PW сильно страдает! И вот не понятно, стоит ли игра свечь? 6,7 Дизель не аргумент, это кусок разваливающегося говна!
Sway bar disconnected on pavement and high speed?
@@megudal78 - depending on road conditions, yes
Interesting, should I give it a try? 😆
I really enjoyed this segment. Thanks!
I completely agree with you on the Rebel being a step below the Tremor. I agree also that the Power Wagon is the best for HD off-readers. I think theTremor has them both beat with Diesel payload and the availability of a winch with the diesel. But my 2020 F150 has the same payload as the Ram Rebel HD Cummins
What’s an off-reader…?😂
I would also go for the tradesmen with the power wagon package it seems to be a lot cheaper less to go wrong with it not a lot of electronics
You're the man Andre. Thx for the great video.
I'd love to see a video of an HD Rebel vs. a normal 2500 with an off road package. I just dont see what you're getting with the rebel package, other than badging and maybe somewhat better offroad shocks and tires? I could be wrong... If I am, I'd love to know.
Awesome vid as usual guys. I am confused by one thing with regards the fuel range discussed. The HD 6.4 had a range of 415 miles (256 covered with 159 remaining) and the HD Cummins had the same (114 covered with 300 remaining) but Andre said 'that's why you get the diesel, for the range'. If they are the same range, then isn't the real difference the torque? Am I missing something, perhaps the diesel tank is smaller?
I bought a 2023 power wagon two days ago, love love love the truck!
Great Video! Thank you!
This is a fair assessment. Agreed.
I've owned a power wagon.....a jeep wrangler....and a diesel 2500.
The off-road capabilities for someone that can isn't scared of putting there foot in the throttle of all 3 are close! But....the Powerwagon is a freaking beast and the weight difference between the diesel and gas is def noticeable! The Jeep is a jeep it's gonna go anywhere as long as it's not on the frame and same with the Powerwagon
ive taken my rebels every where my power wagons and my rubicons went.
My 3rd PW comment here and not sure it is still relevant, but my 4th gen '16 PW was just a couple steps above a Tradesman. The only two options it had was the tow mirrors and the bigger 8" infotainment head unit. With this option, I was able to add a bunch of features such as single zone auto temp control, steering wheel volume/track buttons, HomeLink, the nicer PowerWagon (with logo) EVIC gauge cluster. Driver and passenger under dash lighting pigtails are there for adding some nice LED illumination. Added the OEM remote start/keyless feature too. Essentially everything was there to build up a higher trim (wiring harness) but the larger 8" headunit was the key for many items. Not sure if that is still the case, but worth investigation.
Nice comparison. And yes the overlanding range is a big deal!!! Even with the higher cost of diesel, a savings can be realized. Of course range is everything while overlanding.
We have an '18 Ram 2500 Crewcab 4wd 6.7L Cummins with the 3.42 ratio. Our mods include a Hawk model 4wheel popup camper. Bilstein 5200 shocks on the rear, and Eibach shocks on the front, and a steering brace. Added an aluminum transmission oil pan. Have a Bank's intake to delete the grid heater, ready to be installed.
We also have a '16 Ram 1500 Quadcab 4wd 3.0L Ecodiesel 3.92 ratio. Bilstein 5200 shocks all around, Flowmaster muffler, and the Bank's silencer delete tube.
The ULTIMATE overlander would be a Megacab 3500 with the 3.0L Ecodiesel, 8-speed, 4.44, 4.56 or 4.88 ratio, and the AEV 3" lift kit to allow 37" tires.
The original 5.9L Cummins in '94, had less power than the 3.0L Ecodiesel. The 8-speed would help the engine stay in the sweet spot. And if Tow/Haul mode is used, the VGT turbo engine breaking is pretty good.
Just buy a regular 2500 Cummins, add one of the Carli suspension kits, 37s on 17s, airbags with cradles and maybe ARB air locker if needed and you will have better truck the HD Rebel for less money. If need more payload, do the same but with 3500. That is my plan, have the 2500 Cummings on 37s with Carli Commuter and it rides like a dream will probably upgrade later Fox 2.0 with external reservoir or King 2.5s later on. Will be adding airbags with cradle soon as I tow a trailer and it sags a little in the rear but still rides great. Will add air lockers and new bumper/winch if I start getting a little more brave offroad. Even with all the upgrades will come in under $91,000 and be light years better then HD Rebel. I would have gone Power Wagon but I need about 2000 lbs payload to tow trailer with kids, dogs, bikes, etc for camping.
There are ZERO aftermarket rear diff locks for the current HD RAM. That’s one reason to get a Rebel HD.
This is the correct answer.
I love my new Rebel Cummins ! Perfect for our needs.
TFL, does the HD Rebel have a lift in the front? I'm not seeing much difference between the Rebel package and a standard 2500 except for locking diff and a slight lift in the front. Is there much difference in that front control arm in the Rebel from the standard 2500?
That’s exactly what I did the tradesmen power wagon the exact one that you have on the video red chrome and black love it. I do not need all the bells and whistles with all the electronics inside. I have the 8 1/2 inch entertainment system Blindspot Monitoring back up sensors. Interior opted for the work Grade vinyl it looks like leather, floor shifter for the four-wheel-drive vinyl floors because I put Rams floor mats in. All I have to do when I clean it pull the floor mats out and wipe the floor down no vacuuming . $42,000 before taxes
How does the new rebel diesel handle emission related items when you’re doing trails for hours? What prevents the DPF from clogging up if you can’t do highway speeds? Multiple forced regens?
I tow all day long with the Hemi Power Wagon. 4:10 gear. Bought my 2015 AEV power wagon to tow in soft dune sand Oceano and imperial, dumont dunes. 25' toy hauler. You can very well tow with a V8 engine. In fact i think the power wagon did very well in your towing test uphill and down hill ike. Also the power wagon did well in your off road test scoring. The highest i think P.S. companies offer supercharger kits for the 392 Hemi V8 for less than 10,000 dollars if you want boost for high elevations. Big bear is 40 minutes from my home. Adding Diesel to the Legendary off road p.w. is like adding 22" rims. I do have a cummins generator my R.V. however.
Cool review to get 3 different Ram’s together super cool review
The power wagon wasn't designed to haul heavy loads. It's designed for extreme off road
I like your final outcome choice. 🤣 Put up 3 say you are going to choose 1 and then ignore them all for something else. Might as well have been completely honest and say you would not pick a Ram product at all and buy the truck you own. 😉 Which I think is a fantastic choice still. If one wants a fully capable OR truck from the factory, obviously they would seek the Jeep. Which is still in the Stellantis family so no shame to the manufacturers. While prices continue to suck, at least the consumers have a wide variety of options to choose from for there needs/wants.
Its amazing how well these hd trucks perform offroad and the power wagon is tried and true! What does it mean when andre says the wheels are beadlock capable? Are they beadlocks or not?
Does the Rebel come with all the steel under guards? I love camping fishing quading off roading and having more payload more power in the gas motor allows for more stuff in the bed for camping, hauling and overlanding.
Tradesman w/the Powerwagon package is the only way to go if you have to tow anything over 10k lbs. That would def be the truck for me as I tow my skid steers and gooseneck and dump trailers etc. My GMC AT4 HD 2500 seems to do a fine job but I would like to have that winch bc from time to time I do get my skid steer stuck sometimes and that winch would def come in handy. Good job Andre!
I really like the PW mostly for trails and camping but I have read all over the internet that it can tow up to 17,000 pounds no problem. Just curious is that not the case?
i actually like the analog and digital gauge display on PW and feels youre more engaged with the truck .. these new gauge cluster on rebel HD doesn't look good and boring to me.
Good reason to be concerned about that wheel combo. I've rashed my 17's running 35s on my Wrangler. Thankfully they have a ring that I can paint or replace.
I bought a 2022 Power Wagon 75th anniversary and immediately put in the Carli Pintop system with radius arms. It immediately made the truck the best offroad option period. I've taken my truck to some INCREDIBLE obstacles and it just went everywhere! The gas mileage is one downside, however.
The Power Wagon would be my go to.
Hello tfl showing some support from the bros furniture in Hesperia and Victorville ca have a good day 🙏
Greetings Crew: a little bit, back to the future, revisiting this video, my choice is: a 1952 M43 , I just purchased from a museum. I decided to get a combat Veteran, that is now my battle buddy, off road. Chiao
I was really excited for the HD Rebel. As a 5th gen Ram Rebel owner, who’s looking to upgrade to a HD truck, the concept is ideal. However, the execution leaves a bit to be desired. I’ll wait for the 5th gen cabs and higher GVWR. The rumors of mild hybrid systems to boost power and efficiency are promising.
Ew mild hybrids 👎
Just talked to my dealership. They have a 2500 rebel w the diesel and the power wagon package. Msrp is 88k
The only draw back to my ram 2021 2500 6.4 was the spongy brake pedal. My equivalent work truck is a Ford F250 and it does everything great. This is just my experience. And yes the dealer said the braking system was normal on my vehicle but it didn’t feel normal to me.
Did you get the computer update? There was a recall issued with a computer update to address some braking issues.
Power Wagon, calling this before even watching.
Great video 🎉
The fuel difference between gas and diesel is crazy. Would love to get it, just hate how heavy they are and how much payload they take away. Good video!
If Ram would follow GM and Ford, they should up the GVWR,
Are the tanks the same size on both trucks?
@@mrzeke4413 that's a good question
A large part of that was idling. Diesels idle so much more efficiently than gassers.
Comparing a 2500 to 1500 series trucks...
Nice work
Hello, well explained my brother, a beautiful car, its manufacture is strong, and I love it, and I wish you had the same, and love greetings to you from southern Iraq🌹♥️
Go ahead and idle that "great mileage" diesel offroad a couple years.. you'll really see the difference when you replace engine parts and exhaust systems. Been there done that.. not again. On our second "gasser" power wagon now in 8 years. Love that truck.
I have owned a ‘14 & ‘17 power Wagons. Love/hate relationship. Recently sold my’17 for what I bought it for 5 years ago. Just way to many compromises to get past paying $250 per tank.
One thing to consider here between the Rebel diesel and the 6.4 Hemi. The gas Rebel has about 1000 lbs more payload capability than the diesel. So even though the diesel can tow 3 to 4 lbs than the gas on paper, the tongue weight of 10 to 15 percent will take away payload quickly, so the difference between the to may not be as dramatic it may seem. Also, you can add air bags to the Power Wagon and tow just as much as the Rebel.
Power wagon all the way for me. To be completely honest I want a first gen w350 with all the power wagon drivetrain. 4 door cab with a short bed. Would be awesome
There's no substitute for articulation. In that, the PW has no equals.
Power wagon invented articulation decades ago with the swivel frame
If you go to Yucca valley stop by Johnson valley OHV park(king of hammers) it's on the way . I lived in Apple valley and took my XJ everywhere around there lots of options for the the off-road enthusiast
The only thing i didnt like about my 19 and 22 power wagon...with that massive muffler it sounded like it was wheezing 😂. That has been fixed on my 22 with the proper application of an aeroturbine muffler.
With my 35 inch Yokohama g003 M/T tires it sees right at 13.3 mpg highway.
The payload goes down to 1100 lbs with the rambox option. It is the perfect truck for those that want off road ability with almost 1500 ride.
In Nathan’s, words. Power Wagon don’t care! That trail you did was a cake walk for the power wagon! I’m pretty sure it can do all that in 2wd with the rear locker on! I’ve done that trail in my Raptor in 2wd. Pretty easy trail with beautiful views.
Not sure if Chrysler tried to do any real Voice of Customer for this truck, but. They could have easily carried over some of the beneficial Power Wagon items at little to no cost. For example, 20” wheels, seriously, look at your Ford competition guys. Instead of introducing a new wheel, carryover the PW wheel and tire combo, at 3195 lbs per tire capacity at 65 psi, that is fine for the GVWR of a Ram 2500. Also, the PW front lift springs should work as well at least on the Hemi rebel as the front weights should be the same. Maybe the only additions that would be needed beyond that are taller springs for the rear and a limited slip diff for the front axle, then you have a Tremor competitor. As it sits now, this is just an appearance package. Also, what customer wanted a full digital display cluster, I’m guessing if Chrysler actually surveyed current Ram owners and said, how about we replace your gauges with a full LCD instrument cluster? They would have got a resounding “are you freaking stupid or something?, no keep it simple folks”
The HD rebel 2500 has a 31 gallon fuel vs 26 gallon to the gas model
Love the Joshua trees!
I really wish they made it available with the high output Cummins
10:10…The Pentasar on the rear view mirror. 😂
The power wagon is the best off road 3/4 truck ever made. Not fast or best towing but definitely best off road ever
RamBox is a must for me
Can't wait till the car dealerships and manufacturers feel the crunch
When y’all going to take the all new Power Wagon Cummins for a test drive? There’s two at the Ram dealer here in Avondale, AZ! FYI 😊
2015 tradesman Power Wagon. That is what I bought. Has never let me down. I have pulled numerous Tremors out of stuck positions. There is no substitute for the vary best.
Tradesman with the package!
The gasser Rebel would have been a better truck for my use, but I sure do love my Power Wagon.
You guys should do a review on a ram 2500 AEV prospector package.
Something people forget regarding Diesel and off road driving is the amount of idle time and super low rpm. The emissions systems in newer diesel trucks are still the Achilles heel and don't like low rpms or idling for extended times so fuel economy considered, it would still be the better choice to opt for the gas engine.
Building a Ram Tradesman is the best way to go imo as well!
I’m looking for a suitable, good looking, long lasting & more aggressive replacement tire for my 21 Ram 2500 Laramie with 20 inch wheels. I’ve gotten almost 17,000 miles out of the original Firestones so far but I’ll need to replace them before I get to 20k. Thoughts on going with the Goodyear Duratrac??? I like the off road capabilities but how economical are they when it comes to towing?
I get about 2 yrs/20k miles out of them on my PW. Rubber soft great in snow
That is cool Ram had Nena Barlow running things, she knows her stuff.
Great trail proverbs: "Power Wagon dont care."
Andre...you are a Classic Worrier, but we still love you! Make sure you look for surface rust on the pumpkin! HA!
I can't get over the dial shifter...
I love my power wagon, it’s been a good truck and the soft suspension makes it a very comfortable 3/4 ton truck. New truck prices are outrageous now, but then again so is gas, diesel, food and everything else. It’s a shame that everything cost so much
I want one but will now hold off with the prices of fuel to triple soon because Saudi just shut us off from fuel due to the war.
We all know who the winner would be but the video is good to watch
Same problem with these packages as with the other manufacturer's coolest and most capable offroad packages: They are only available in a crew cab/standard bed. Need a doublecab/extendedcab pickup with a standard bed to get a shorter, more offroad usable, wheelbase. HD trucks already don't cut the wheels as far as as Fullsize trucks and are a foot longer. But add another foot of length because these are all crewcab and you need 40 acres to turn these rigs around.
True but most people aren't going to pay 90k for a truck and take it any place very rough , the places he took these trucks like I use to take some of mine. Me personally I would buy a used beater to take out into the rough stuff.
Power Wagon for sure.
The prices are insane!
They will still sell out..with or without you lol. Save up or buy used
I wish Ford F150 SVT Raptor was available with 1.5 cab and 6.5' bed! With a bed shell sleeper that'd be an ultimate overlander.
Good vidio .would like you to put a trx in the mix for fun
Fricken Dodge, they still won't get rid of that pos 68rfe! It's been the only thing holding me back for the last 5 years from buying one.
I've never seen the point of the power wagon, it's too big for most trails and it can't tow anything because the payload is horrible. Power wagon just seems to be the truck for guys who need to compensate for other shortcomings. I guess it would be a great recovery vehicle but only in open areas like sand dunes and big trails.
It's even the same with some of the "regular" 2500. TFLs 2500 cummins has a payload of like 2000 pounds. It's the same as my toyota hilux!
Called options. We should just be greatful RAM makes it.
Can airlift bags help with the wagon towing and payload
My 2022 ram 2500 with a 6.4 shows 400+ miles when I fill up, they put a 20 gal tank in the rebel?
Does the rebel have both rear and front lockers?
Did the cummins rebel have air bags?
Wish ram would come out with a baby cummins like a 4.46L straight 4 cylinder in the HD rebel. I dont tow, so dont need the big motor and i cant replace my current 1/2 diesel rebel in the future because they killed the 1/2 diesel option the end of this year.
I would second the vote on Power Wagon Tradesman.
Color me biased (I own a ‘21 Tradesman PW), but I think your call was dead-on accurate. Hard to justify $30k+ for a Diesel engine and options when the Tradesman PW will perform better offroad. Need to tow? But a diesel tradesman with the off-road package.
We are here taking off-road and I think PW is still better then other ram lineups
I love my 2012 power wagon. I commonly go where big modified jeeps can't follow.
Andrea: “I really like the diesel, but then I looked at the prices” 😂
Would you review a ram mega cab pickup please.
Ram missed the mark by not adding 35” tires to the power wagon for the 22/23 model year trucks.
Pros and cons Jeeves. There's always pros and cons.
Hi I am looking for a new daily driver. What HD truck is best? Or even a full SUV
Insufficient data.
5 WAYS RAM COULD OF MADE THIS A WINNER:
1. put 35 inch tires on the rebel and PW
2.put a new cab on the HDs already
or at least offer the mega cab option!!
3.offer a HO option in the 2500s
4. put a new 8 speed trans behind the diesel!!
5. at least offer a limited slip in the front!
Yes can we get the new cab already
Tradesman with powerwagon package new for 54k and youncan seat 6.
i got a tradesman pw bc i didn't want all the tech of the higher trims and i like the floor shift 4x4
To Andre's point about the size of the wheel robbing tire side wall 4:00. I wish truck makers pushing off-road capable trucks would stop with the 20" OEM wheels. Tire tread is NOT enough if you are going off-road. You need as much tire wall as possible both to be able to sufficiently air-down, but also to protect the wheel rim from getting bent on a rock. Regarding range, nothing beats a diesel 7:00, only problem, the White just said there is only 25 days left of diesel fuel. Not sure how true that is. But they have been selling our fuel reserves to China. Just throwing that in there as something to think about. If it's not the issue they stated it's not a problem. 7:32 I have also thought these grills were fugly. Again, I have to agree with Andre on the 20" wheel and lower profile tires for similar reasons I mentioned earlier.
I can't quite figure out why they made the 2500 Rebel Cummins... the spec with highest payload/tow capacity (on the 2500 Rebel) is a Hemi... Power Wagon all day every day!
With today’s “overland” trailers….this is a real nice comparison