Honestly, even in my first casual playthrough I used the cat statue fairly often when I just couldn't figure out any other way to get past the steam geysers.
I did this challenge myself a week or two ago. I also got 10 echoes, but I made a few decisions and discoveries that would have made things a lot easier for you. Instead of getting the fairly useless Wind Cannon echo, I went to Eldin Volcano to get the Ghirro echo instead. This gave me a flying enemy to glide with, making many sections much easier. Because I already had a flying enemy, I learned the Ice Wizzrobe echo, giving me much needed power into the endgame. With the Frog Ring, it is possible to jump on top of a statue echo by entering Swordfighter Form. This made that precarious staircase in Lanayru a lot easier. Rather than Buzz Blob, an echo entirely useless for mobility, I got the Spark echo, which let me easily get through any 2D section, trivializing the ones in Null’s Body.
Funny, the cannon echo was one of the ones I completely missed since I used the Tornando to clear the sand. I don't even know how since it's a pretty obvious pickup. @@UJ-nt5oo
@@UJ-nt5oo No, the Ghirro enemy shoots wind, so you can use it to blow sand piles or anything else the wind cannon can do. The Tornando enemy works too.
To put it another way, you need: - The 2 statues and orb, to fit into very specific keyholes (3) - A fire, lightning, and ice echo (3) - An echo to deal with 2 sand piles, a digging section, and a bomb section (3) - A table for mobility The third category feels the most skippable, but I doubt it can go much lower than 10 when you put it this way
table for mobility is bit disingenuous... look at the REAL reason it is obtained: it is the only way out of the cell without glitches. Mobility is just a "bonus". Stick it in the "specific keyholes" category, as it is very much the "cell key" in practice, even moreso when he uses hawk for just as much platforming. XD
I feel like Ice and Electric Wizzrobes are the better choice, though the Spark is also *very* good for mobility in the side-scrolling sections. Fire Wizzrobe unfortunately isn't an option because you don't have 5 triangles by the time you need fire, so ignizol is probably the best bet. Ghirro is probably the best one for wind, since it gives you flight at the same time, and can be used to run quicker (which may help in certain scenarios). The mole is another key-in-a-keyhole, and the bombfish is literally the only option for bombs that can be used underwater. So you're limited in choice to: - Table - One of (Brazier, Ignizol, Torch Slug, Fire Keese, Fire Octo) - Holmil - One of (Wind Canon, Tornando, Ghirro) - Eagle Statue - Elephant Statue - Bomb Fish - One of (Ice Wizzrobe, Freeze Slug, Ice Keese, Ice Octo, Freezard) - One of (Buzz Blob, Electric Wizzrobe, Electric Keeze, maybe Biri, Spark) - The ancient orb
@@zachtwilightwindwaker596 sure, but is not like we need every-single-one. Just go picking as you feel necessary, but without limiting yourself thar much
9:21 I'm always surprised to see how many people use the wind cannon here. When I first came here, I simply put out all the fires using the frogs that summon rain.
The frogs are clearly the intended developer solution. I was surprised he was able to do it with the wind cannon, that was a neat way to avoid learning the frog echo.
This is literally the first thing I asked when the first trailer come out. “I can’t wait to see the minimum echos speedrun”. It resulted in some moron telling me off for no reason while saying “nobody cares what speedrunners think” or something like that. People SHOULD care, it’d probably result in a lot less games being horribly broken immediately upon release.
5:51 The link between you and the enemy has a maximum length, so it moves you as close as it can on all axis till it physically cant have either entity move with the link remaining intact (moving objects do not have this quirk because they move on set paths, nothing you do besides obstructing the path will affect their movement, so the link simply breaks when it gets too far) Or at least thats my theory on it
That sounds about right. I thought that above all else, the game would keep your position relative to the object unchanged, but clearly that's not the case!
Thank you for resisting the urge to name the video the clickbait title other channels use "beating echoes of wisdom without any echoes" and straight up they admit its not possible and switch the video to how few echoes you need.
Easiest way to do the armos switches, even easier than using the armos echo - drop table echoes on each switch, drop non-echo object/statues whatever on each table. Undo all echoes at the same time, everything drops onto switches
The only thing I can think of that you missed is that Buzz Blob and Ice Keese are two of the better combat echoes (buzz blob for spamming as an attack, Keese to keep enemies occupied for a while), but that would have just made a few fights easier rather than saving you any echoes.
I would swap out the ice keese for an ice wizrobe. The glide was never used, and the wizrobe would give a solid combat echo so you're not as bad off in the final dungeon.
I got through the game with 10 echoes as well, and in Hero Mode because why not. I learned the same early 7 (though I did get all the way to Hyrule Castle before I realized that the rock probably wasn't necessary, and restarted to break out of prison with only the table) and final one, but instead of a Buzz Blob I learned an Electric Keese to deal with the flying sections of Eldin and electric switches of Faron, and after being forced to take a death to the Hebra midboss due to a lack of ice I went out of my way to find the Ice Wizrobe for a boost in firepower. Though I will say that the combination of Electric Keese and two or three Ignizols was surprisingly deadly. I also managed to gather all 25 stamps, 150 Might Crystals, and 38 of the 40 Heart Pieces, and get Tri to level 11. I could probably get a 39th without any other echoes, but couldn't be bothered with more dream training. The final heart piece definitely requires four more echoes. Namely you'd need a Tektite, Mothula, Octorok, and firework, though if an Ice Octo was your cold weapon then that could consolidate it to 13 total echoes. You need to craft the Gizmol to show the Zol-loving kid, and although Dampe accepts the Ignizol as inspiration and the music box is easily obtainable after a couple of quests, he doesn't give you the option until after you've made the Techtite and Tocktorok. A lot of other quests (including the previous quest for the Zol-loving boy) need you drag living enemies over to whoever requests them to avoid learning their echo, but that's not an option when the requester or enemy is only found indoors. When staircasing for height (after obtaining the Frog Ring), my method was usually to spawn a table then a hawk statue, use bind to offset the hawk by half a tile. With it offset, you can jump on top of it, then place a table to one side, then jump on it an place another hawk on the other side. You can then misalign that hawk in the other axis (so the two hawks only touch by a quarter-tile area), break the tables by either dropping another table onto them or using bind to drop them off the structure, and repeat until all but one of Tri's energy is hawks. It can be a bit time consuming and tricky, but it's the most height for your energy that I could figure out. It can also be useful for a bit more distance out of a jump, if you're not constrained by a ceiling, but the ability for tables to be pushed outside of even the half-tile grid is probably better for that purpose. For simultaneous switches, I find the easiest thing to do (when available) is to spawn a table on top of each switch, place some non-echo object in the room on each of them, and then dismiss all echoes by holding ZR. Another option is to set up double tables on each of them, making sure both lower tables were your first two echoes, and then use something that costs two energy to despawn both lower tables at the same time, which would be useful for the room in Lanayru with no helper objects available.
Also, for the orb on the pillar in the Gerudo rift, bringing over the rock and stacking four tables on top of it is enough height to climb the pillar from below without needing a tight jump from the upper ledge.
Thanks for the detailed comment! That's interesting that you nearly did 100% with these echoes. Sounds like there is just the one heart piece that is a problem.
Darn I ended up with 11 when I did minimum. Though instead of wind cannon I used tornado-it's a little finicky but if you can bind it right as you send it out (hold R down before using it) you can go flying across large gaps Although without the wind cannon in that part where you have to put out the torches I just grabbed the dripitune from the west side of the level and carried it over
The Hawk statue floats on lava without despawning?!?! Dammit, I struggled so much with that one cave with the rising lava and a one-block gap, trying to spawn enough water to climb up before the lava vaporised it with me still inside. Edit after watching a bit longer: Ok, they *do* despawn. Probably about as fast as the regular boulders which I had tried. I feel less bad.
For that torch puzzle in the Faron dungeon you could probably bind one of the drizzletone (the frogs that sing to cause rain) and bring it over there! there are some that are around the still world in that area
I wonder if you could've swapped wind cannon for a Tornandus. It would give you another combat echo, and if you find a bed somewhere, you could launch yourself.
At 10:00 you can most definitely do that puzzle with just the rocks provided. You make it so when you stand on one side there is a rock held up above the other side’s switch so when you step off onto the other switch the rock lowers at the same time
Due to the existance of the wrong warp, the glitched speedrun currently finishes with a whopping 6 echoes: Table, Bed, Tree, Urchin, Trampoline, and Sign. At least a couple of those are used specifically to speed things up too - you could probably finish the game with just Table, Bed, and Sign using the glitches. Maybe even skipping the Bed but that would actually make a specific endgame glitch very difficult. That said, that skips so much of the game and makes the answer so much less interesting!
@@andrewmoses7865 I'm thinking in between swordfighter mode and dropping tables / beds on enemies you might be able to get away with it. Might be wrong, though.
Once you had buzz blob you could use them as an attack by repeatedly spawning them on an enemy, that became a default for me just in my normal playthrough, that mightve made some fights easier.
Dang. The statues only have a cost of one, and the lava rock has a cost of four! So placing statues is just straight up a better way to cross lava. You could probably have chosen a wizrobe to cover one of the elemental needs (probably ice), and that would have made some of the combat easier.
Thank you for this, glitchless runs are way more interesting in this game than that awful wrong warp. Why dont you upload glitchless minimum echo challenges for each dungeons? Great stuff.
Thanks for the comment and for the idea! I will keep it in mind. I do have a couple other runs I plan to publish that you may find interesting as well.
I found your video trying to see if I could squeeze past the sand at 3:30. My solution to reaching the orb at 2:45 was carrying the sand pirahna from down up to the platform where you stacked the tables, dropping it back down while still binded to it, and since i did zora first i could long range summon tables to lure it to the other side of the pillar and then let myself drop down on top of the pillar
I can't believe Hawk works on lava like that. I did my own glideless Eldin (mostly using the flying tile), that would have made some parts so much easier.
According to someone on the speedrun forums without wrong warping the minimum limit is 9 echos as Table Ignizol Mole Elephant Statue Hawk Statue Bombfish Ice Keese Electric Wizrobe Floating Orb That list specifically especially the enemies because it's honestly the fastest. Of course that list is theoretical as you might need the windblower or tornado enemy but even so those 9 with the windblower is all you need if you can't skip it and want this to pretty much be glitchless. You are playing Any% if you want to use wrong warp with doing this as you only need 4 echos in any% Table, Rock, Sign, Bed as you are wrong warping directly inside of Null's body and pretty much letting Link kill all the enemies though you could throw a rock at stuff if ya wanted
You DO need the windblower, Tornando, or Grhirro. If you're not utilizing skips, you are required to put out the torches and you're required to blow away sand piles. None of the enemies that you listed can accomplish that. He showcased this in the video.
@@moonlitxangel5771 Putting out the torches is probably optional, as that stilled area also has a Drippitune in it and it might (I haven't tested it) be possible to drag it to the torches with bind, however the sand is still the main issue.
Oh interesting - like spawning the fewest echoes possible through the game? I guess it is kinda ambiguous. That would be a neat challenge too! I updated the video's title to be less ambiguous.
driptune is native to faron, but i cant remember if there is a shadow one outside the faron dungeon. If so, that is an answer to the wind canon choice you went with- by dragging a shadow driptune to the area- but it doesnt eliminate other wind checks. that does mean you can choose to use tornado instead, though, and it might provide more vertical options than wind cannon alone. wind checks is probably the most realistic thing to cut down on, but with the tools up to that point (desert), i am not sure many other options exist. I might also need to play around with automotons more to see if they can technically shave any efforts since they are not technically echoes...
Ah good call, didn't think about driptune. If there was a way past the sand piles in the Gerudo region, wind cannon may very well be skippable. Automatons wouldn't help because you'd have to learn other echoes first to get the automatons.
@@SwitchSummit yeah, for as powerful as automatons can be, they often feel like an afterthought, something i completely forget about. Only mentioned it as a possibility, but yeah, i forgot about needing a monster to base it off of first. XD
If you were able to craft the automatons in any order, I’m sure there would be one or two that you could craft. It’s a shame that it forces you to craft with unnecessary echoes first
Did you know that the black monster blobs that materialize into enemy monsters can be shot down with arrows in Swordfighter form if you’re quick enough on the draw? Not always worth the effort since it doesn’t get you energy that you get for beating them, but handy sometimes
14:42 I really wish I knew you could glide with monsters at this point, or even that those statues could cheese the room. I used lava rocks and platbooms to get to the end, and it was incredibly frustrating.
Easily overlooked. There were a couple scenarios where he could've used it and made his life much easier. But there weren't extra echoes learned for it so all good
the double switch puzzles can be solved by putting table echoes on the switches, then placing a non-echo object on top of the them and then despawning the echoes EDIT: I should have watched the vid more
9:41 I solved the switch puzzles with tables! put a table on both buttons, put the armos statues on top of the tables, recall all echoes, and voila, both statues land on the switches simultaneously.
I seen a guy on stream beat it with exactly 12 echoes (well 13 but he never used the pot), and he thinks he could have whittled it down to further if he did some things in a different order This however puts that run to shame
The wind enemy also works instead of the wind cannon. I know this because i didnt even get the wind cannon untill i had beated the game and googled what echoes i was missing
@@SwitchSummit you could make things easier by redoing a section, and recalculating the number. Let's say you get across a gap with 5 tables. then you discover you could of did it with a bird... you'd simply go back, and redo the section (no need to load a save file).
simultaneous switch rooms can be done by putting table echoes on both switches then putting stuff from the room on the tables, then dismissing both echoes by holding the trigger. The one in Lanayru forces the strat you used since nothing is in the room.
My strat was similar, I just activated one of the two switches myself while dropping an echo on the other. I did eventually learn I could spawn tables underneath me. I think I figured it out in Eldin Temple.
@@Hi_Brien In casual playthroughs it's easier to put a table on each switch, then some other object on the tables and call in an expensive echo that will wipe out the tables but not whichever echo was on top of them. eg when you have 6 triangles, you could put down two tables and two rocks, then call in any four-cost echo to consume the tables and drop the rocks.
testing echoes Tornado, blows sand and lifts objects to help you go higher Ghirro, blows sand and can be lifted and used to fly Gustmaster blows sand and can be used for flight No other hole digger Poe works ad light but nothing else Wind canons do not dink in lava but were tricky to platform on
I'm running a 3 Heart Hero Mode run where I've banned my top 25 echoes from my previous run, and banned any use of Link's abilities. I'm over half way through. I'm loving how open ended this game is.
I feel like instead of buzz blob and wind cannons you could have taken electric wizzrobe and tornando. They do the same job but provide better offensive capabilities
Unofficial intrusive thought here: regarding how an echo could end in longer tail on Tri, I kinda tickled to see how a word pun could potentially happen between English sounded vocabulary and Indonesian ones: did any of you notice how ECHO and EKOR (尻尾・tail) sounded similar ?
9:40 wait is that how you’re supposed to do it? For all of those puzzles I just placed objects over the switches with echoes holding them up and then erased all my echoes at once.
On my first playthrough, I had an Armos statue match towards one switch and I stepped on the other at the same time. I figured that was the intended way, and the despawning echoes way was clever. Interesting to hear how many people used the despawning echoes method on their first playthrough.
I did a minimum a minimum everything run: 3/20 Hearts 47/150 Might Crystals 0/25 Stamp Locations Found 0/26 Accessories 2/8 Clothes 0/6 Automatons No Link Weapon Upgrades No Link Bombs Energy Level at Level 1 out of 4 Tri Power at Level 9 out of 11 11/127 Echoes 0/69 Smoothie Recipes 1/16 Smoothie Ingredients 0/50 Side Quests Complete 0 Dream Challenges Complete 1/5 Accessory Slots 0 Dungeon Maps 0 Non-Small/Big Key Chests With the echoes, had to use a trick with a table and tornado enemy a lot to give me height to forgo getting more echoes. Lastly, I did get Link’s Bow before realizing I didn’t have to get it, but I wasn’t gonna start over so I guess technically not bare minimum but still!
Even after a long detour at Eldin Volcano, the bombfish didn't respawn for me, but it would be awesome if someone could figure it out. I feel like there were other spots later that also required the bombfish echo, although I might be misremembering.
3:23 how on HYRULE do you switch to a more top down view?! I’ve already beaten the game but have never seen this done yet. I’ve even watched streams of the game
I really do keep on underestimating how much horizontal distance you can get off of Zelda's jump. Really thought we'd need the bed at some point in the game, but sadly I guess not. I will say, the Spark and Ghirro are great alternatives to the Buzz Blob and Wind Cannon respectively. I am very curious how you managed to get up Hebra mountain without some sort of vertical climbing echo because I can't seem to figure it out
I for one was happy not to have to claim the bed. :) Any part of the Hebra mountain climb in particular that you're stuck on? I thought I showed the trickiest parts in the video.
It's crazy how important the supposedly useless statues from the Gerudo dungeon turned out to be!
Totally! I was curious how many sections could have been completed table-only, but I'm pretty sure there are a few where you'll need the statues.
@Donja-mz6hp Cloud is nice in a Casual Playthrough, but in this Low Echoes run, it's just not required, and therefore would make the run worse.
Honestly, even in my first casual playthrough I used the cat statue fairly often when I just couldn't figure out any other way to get past the steam geysers.
True, I think they would be a really cool big side quest puzzle in the Gerudo Desert but no.
I did this challenge myself a week or two ago. I also got 10 echoes, but I made a few decisions and discoveries that would have made things a lot easier for you.
Instead of getting the fairly useless Wind Cannon echo, I went to Eldin Volcano to get the Ghirro echo instead. This gave me a flying enemy to glide with, making many sections much easier. Because I already had a flying enemy, I learned the Ice Wizzrobe echo, giving me much needed power into the endgame.
With the Frog Ring, it is possible to jump on top of a statue echo by entering Swordfighter Form. This made that precarious staircase in Lanayru a lot easier.
Rather than Buzz Blob, an echo entirely useless for mobility, I got the Spark echo, which let me easily get through any 2D section, trivializing the ones in Null’s Body.
These are all good tips!
You need the wind cannon to blow away the sand tho, its a soft lock by nintendo.
Funny, the cannon echo was one of the ones I completely missed since I used the Tornando to clear the sand. I don't even know how since it's a pretty obvious pickup.
@@UJ-nt5oo
@@UJ-nt5oo No, the Ghirro enemy shoots wind, so you can use it to blow sand piles or anything else the wind cannon can do. The Tornando enemy works too.
I found buzz blob useful for fighting by just repeatedly spawning them on an enemy, but spark might work for that too.
I feel bad for the elephant echo. He’s just as useful as the hawk. Justice for the elephant
Yes but the hawk looks cooler
@@daniel85301 you seen brain rot nowadays ? Ruined the Hawk statues
Hawk tuah
@@Spoul-does-drawing idc about the memes the statue is still dope
Elephant was goated in my run
To put it another way, you need:
- The 2 statues and orb, to fit into very specific keyholes (3)
- A fire, lightning, and ice echo (3)
- An echo to deal with 2 sand piles, a digging section, and a bomb section (3)
- A table for mobility
The third category feels the most skippable, but I doubt it can go much lower than 10 when you put it this way
table for mobility is bit disingenuous... look at the REAL reason it is obtained: it is the only way out of the cell without glitches. Mobility is just a "bonus". Stick it in the "specific keyholes" category, as it is very much the "cell key" in practice, even moreso when he uses hawk for just as much platforming. XD
I feel like Ice and Electric Wizzrobes are the better choice, though the Spark is also *very* good for mobility in the side-scrolling sections. Fire Wizzrobe unfortunately isn't an option because you don't have 5 triangles by the time you need fire, so ignizol is probably the best bet.
Ghirro is probably the best one for wind, since it gives you flight at the same time, and can be used to run quicker (which may help in certain scenarios).
The mole is another key-in-a-keyhole, and the bombfish is literally the only option for bombs that can be used underwater.
So you're limited in choice to:
- Table
- One of (Brazier, Ignizol, Torch Slug, Fire Keese, Fire Octo)
- Holmil
- One of (Wind Canon, Tornando, Ghirro)
- Eagle Statue
- Elephant Statue
- Bomb Fish
- One of (Ice Wizzrobe, Freeze Slug, Ice Keese, Ice Octo, Freezard)
- One of (Buzz Blob, Electric Wizzrobe, Electric Keeze, maybe Biri, Spark)
- The ancient orb
Few echos run is worthy doing just for having clean menu
Haha I agree with that
@@EduSolsa screw cleaniless
Embrace unorganized bedroom mode
It makes some things harder though.
@@zachtwilightwindwaker596 sure, but is not like we need every-single-one. Just go picking as you feel necessary, but without limiting yourself thar much
9:21 I'm always surprised to see how many people use the wind cannon here. When I first came here, I simply put out all the fires using the frogs that summon rain.
Right same. Another reason why I love this game cuz there are different ways to go around it.
Using wind blew my mind. I love the replay ability of this game.
@@joefisher3950 using wind blew your mind... I see what you did there lol
i used the purple wind ball one that blows wind in all directions
The frogs are clearly the intended developer solution. I was surprised he was able to do it with the wind cannon, that was a neat way to avoid learning the frog echo.
I love how you used a hawk to ascend the lava
☹️
I hate you
Since you had to take the buzz blob... it's a REALLY good combat echo... so like yeah.
This is literally the first thing I asked when the first trailer come out. “I can’t wait to see the minimum echos speedrun”. It resulted in some moron telling me off for no reason while saying “nobody cares what speedrunners think” or something like that. People SHOULD care, it’d probably result in a lot less games being horribly broken immediately upon release.
This is crazy!
I saw another youruber do this challenge but they ended up using 12 echoes
And any% speedrunners only get 7 but they wrong warp to the end without any dungeons lol
5:51
The link between you and the enemy has a maximum length, so it moves you as close as it can on all axis till it physically cant have either entity move with the link remaining intact (moving objects do not have this quirk because they move on set paths, nothing you do besides obstructing the path will affect their movement, so the link simply breaks when it gets too far)
Or at least thats my theory on it
That sounds about right. I thought that above all else, the game would keep your position relative to the object unchanged, but clearly that's not the case!
Ahh! Dropping a table to break a crate at the beginning! Smart. I learned boulder to get through there and ended up with 11 echoes.
That is definitely the thing that surprised me the most out of this run. Mostly because I’ve never seen anyone else do it
I had an earlier attempt where I also claimed the boulder. It took a while to figure out what the table can actually do.
@@ianjohnson218 Any% uses a bed to do the same thing
11:28 Double hawks? As in Two Hawks? Bro used the Hawk Tuah maneuver.
The EOW low% runs will be insane
thank you for a fun, no glitches, challenge.
Thank you for resisting the urge to name the video the clickbait title other channels use "beating echoes of wisdom without any echoes" and straight up they admit its not possible and switch the video to how few echoes you need.
UA-camr moment 😂
Haha. That did cross my mind. But yeah, way too misleading.
This is really well done, I'm shocked your channel is so small! Definitely earned my sub
Thanks!
Easiest way to do the armos switches, even easier than using the armos echo - drop table echoes on each switch, drop non-echo object/statues whatever on each table. Undo all echoes at the same time, everything drops onto switches
The only thing I can think of that you missed is that Buzz Blob and Ice Keese are two of the better combat echoes (buzz blob for spamming as an attack, Keese to keep enemies occupied for a while), but that would have just made a few fights easier rather than saving you any echoes.
So tables aren't enough to complete the game, you need a hawk too
HAWK TOO!!!! CHAT IS THAT A HAWK TUAH REFERENCE
Damn, you beat me by two echos. Now I gotta do it again
"you didn't have any echoes to occupy them,"
ignizol and ice keese:...
I would swap out the ice keese for an ice wizrobe.
The glide was never used, and the wizrobe would give a solid combat echo so you're not as bad off in the final dungeon.
This game requires you to use not only the elephant statue but the hawk too
uh
How about a Hawk?
Let's table this dungeon for now.
I got through the game with 10 echoes as well, and in Hero Mode because why not. I learned the same early 7 (though I did get all the way to Hyrule Castle before I realized that the rock probably wasn't necessary, and restarted to break out of prison with only the table) and final one, but instead of a Buzz Blob I learned an Electric Keese to deal with the flying sections of Eldin and electric switches of Faron, and after being forced to take a death to the Hebra midboss due to a lack of ice I went out of my way to find the Ice Wizrobe for a boost in firepower. Though I will say that the combination of Electric Keese and two or three Ignizols was surprisingly deadly.
I also managed to gather all 25 stamps, 150 Might Crystals, and 38 of the 40 Heart Pieces, and get Tri to level 11. I could probably get a 39th without any other echoes, but couldn't be bothered with more dream training. The final heart piece definitely requires four more echoes. Namely you'd need a Tektite, Mothula, Octorok, and firework, though if an Ice Octo was your cold weapon then that could consolidate it to 13 total echoes. You need to craft the Gizmol to show the Zol-loving kid, and although Dampe accepts the Ignizol as inspiration and the music box is easily obtainable after a couple of quests, he doesn't give you the option until after you've made the Techtite and Tocktorok. A lot of other quests (including the previous quest for the Zol-loving boy) need you drag living enemies over to whoever requests them to avoid learning their echo, but that's not an option when the requester or enemy is only found indoors.
When staircasing for height (after obtaining the Frog Ring), my method was usually to spawn a table then a hawk statue, use bind to offset the hawk by half a tile. With it offset, you can jump on top of it, then place a table to one side, then jump on it an place another hawk on the other side. You can then misalign that hawk in the other axis (so the two hawks only touch by a quarter-tile area), break the tables by either dropping another table onto them or using bind to drop them off the structure, and repeat until all but one of Tri's energy is hawks. It can be a bit time consuming and tricky, but it's the most height for your energy that I could figure out. It can also be useful for a bit more distance out of a jump, if you're not constrained by a ceiling, but the ability for tables to be pushed outside of even the half-tile grid is probably better for that purpose.
For simultaneous switches, I find the easiest thing to do (when available) is to spawn a table on top of each switch, place some non-echo object in the room on each of them, and then dismiss all echoes by holding ZR. Another option is to set up double tables on each of them, making sure both lower tables were your first two echoes, and then use something that costs two energy to despawn both lower tables at the same time, which would be useful for the room in Lanayru with no helper objects available.
Also, for the orb on the pillar in the Gerudo rift, bringing over the rock and stacking four tables on top of it is enough height to climb the pillar from below without needing a tight jump from the upper ledge.
Thanks for the detailed comment! That's interesting that you nearly did 100% with these echoes. Sounds like there is just the one heart piece that is a problem.
Darn I ended up with 11 when I did minimum. Though instead of wind cannon I used tornado-it's a little finicky but if you can bind it right as you send it out (hold R down before using it) you can go flying across large gaps
Although without the wind cannon in that part where you have to put out the torches I just grabbed the dripitune from the west side of the level and carried it over
Good call - there are definitely better echoes to choose than the set of 10 I went with.
The Hawk statue floats on lava without despawning?!?! Dammit, I struggled so much with that one cave with the rising lava and a one-block gap, trying to spawn enough water to climb up before the lava vaporised it with me still inside.
Edit after watching a bit longer: Ok, they *do* despawn. Probably about as fast as the regular boulders which I had tried. I feel less bad.
Hah yeah, they sink after a bit
For that torch puzzle in the Faron dungeon you could probably bind one of the drizzletone (the frogs that sing to cause rain) and bring it over there! there are some that are around the still world in that area
I wonder if you could've swapped wind cannon for a Tornandus. It would give you another combat echo, and if you find a bed somewhere, you could launch yourself.
This would be on mods to determine if it’s a glitch. Otherwise we might as well take inspiration from any% which already have only 4-5 echos
What a wild way to learn that the Hawk statue is the real mvp
6:15 - 6:36 is what caused me to like the video. I love the determination and problem solving.
I had so much hope for this. It’ll turn out to be the A-button challenge from N64 Mario with a TAS.
At 10:00 you can most definitely do that puzzle with just the rocks provided. You make it so when you stand on one side there is a rock held up above the other side’s switch so when you step off onto the other switch the rock lowers at the same time
3:57 "I decided to table this" 😂
Due to the existance of the wrong warp, the glitched speedrun currently finishes with a whopping 6 echoes: Table, Bed, Tree, Urchin, Trampoline, and Sign. At least a couple of those are used specifically to speed things up too - you could probably finish the game with just Table, Bed, and Sign using the glitches. Maybe even skipping the Bed but that would actually make a specific endgame glitch very difficult.
That said, that skips so much of the game and makes the answer so much less interesting!
Id think you’d need something for damage like ignizol or urchin right?
@@andrewmoses7865 I'm thinking in between swordfighter mode and dropping tables / beds on enemies you might be able to get away with it. Might be wrong, though.
for softlock skip you need sea urchin or something to throw no?
you need some form of underwater damage for null’s water phase
16:34
Ice Keese would've been useful during these fights, especially if you upgraded Tri far enough to be able to summon 2 of them.
Once you had buzz blob you could use them as an attack by repeatedly spawning them on an enemy, that became a default for me just in my normal playthrough, that mightve made some fights easier.
You're probably right. I don't think I realized how good they were for combat.
5:56 It’s because it’s moving away from you. Tried it with a box in one of the box puzzles in the Zora area
Dang. The statues only have a cost of one, and the lava rock has a cost of four! So placing statues is just straight up a better way to cross lava.
You could probably have chosen a wizrobe to cover one of the elemental needs (probably ice), and that would have made some of the combat easier.
I was shocked when I saw that. I just finished the fire temple, and using the hawk would have been wayyy better than the lava rock.
Thank you for this, glitchless runs are way more interesting in this game than that awful wrong warp.
Why dont you upload glitchless minimum echo challenges for each dungeons?
Great stuff.
Thanks for the comment and for the idea! I will keep it in mind. I do have a couple other runs I plan to publish that you may find interesting as well.
I found your video trying to see if I could squeeze past the sand at 3:30. My solution to reaching the orb at 2:45 was carrying the sand pirahna from down up to the platform where you stacked the tables, dropping it back down while still binded to it, and since i did zora first i could long range summon tables to lure it to the other side of the pillar and then let myself drop down on top of the pillar
Clever! Always interesting to hear of alternate solutions.
I can't believe Hawk works on lava like that. I did my own glideless Eldin (mostly using the flying tile), that would have made some parts so much easier.
If glitches were allowed, but you had to do all dungeons.. then you could wrong warp inside the fire dungeon to learn link's bombs.
Min captures: finally, a worthy opponent! Our battle will be legendary!
According to someone on the speedrun forums without wrong warping the minimum limit is 9 echos as
Table
Ignizol
Mole
Elephant Statue
Hawk Statue
Bombfish
Ice Keese
Electric Wizrobe
Floating Orb
That list specifically especially the enemies because it's honestly the fastest. Of course that list is theoretical as you might need the windblower or tornado enemy but even so those 9 with the windblower is all you need if you can't skip it and want this to pretty much be glitchless. You are playing Any% if you want to use wrong warp with doing this as you only need 4 echos in any% Table, Rock, Sign, Bed as you are wrong warping directly inside of Null's body and pretty much letting Link kill all the enemies though you could throw a rock at stuff if ya wanted
None of those cane blow the sand for the 2D room. It'd still be 10 like in the video unfortunately.
You DO need the windblower, Tornando, or Grhirro. If you're not utilizing skips, you are required to put out the torches and you're required to blow away sand piles. None of the enemies that you listed can accomplish that. He showcased this in the video.
@@moonlitxangel5771 Putting out the torches is probably optional, as that stilled area also has a Drippitune in it and it might (I haven't tested it) be possible to drag it to the torches with bind, however the sand is still the main issue.
I thought this would be using the fewest echoes possible, like minimum captures in Super Mario Odyssey, but this is a great challenge nonetheless!
Oh interesting - like spawning the fewest echoes possible through the game? I guess it is kinda ambiguous. That would be a neat challenge too!
I updated the video's title to be less ambiguous.
Wow your much less famouse than i thought honestly you deserve much more, keep up the high quality@SwitchSummit
driptune is native to faron, but i cant remember if there is a shadow one outside the faron dungeon. If so, that is an answer to the wind canon choice you went with- by dragging a shadow driptune to the area- but it doesnt eliminate other wind checks. that does mean you can choose to use tornado instead, though, and it might provide more vertical options than wind cannon alone.
wind checks is probably the most realistic thing to cut down on, but with the tools up to that point (desert), i am not sure many other options exist.
I might also need to play around with automotons more to see if they can technically shave any efforts since they are not technically echoes...
Ah good call, didn't think about driptune. If there was a way past the sand piles in the Gerudo region, wind cannon may very well be skippable.
Automatons wouldn't help because you'd have to learn other echoes first to get the automatons.
@@SwitchSummit yeah, for as powerful as automatons can be, they often feel like an afterthought, something i completely forget about. Only mentioned it as a possibility, but yeah, i forgot about needing a monster to base it off of first. XD
If you were able to craft the automatons in any order, I’m sure there would be one or two that you could craft. It’s a shame that it forces you to craft with unnecessary echoes first
10:40 Hawk 2 Ah jumpscare!
Did you know that the black monster blobs that materialize into enemy monsters can be shot down with arrows in Swordfighter form if you’re quick enough on the draw? Not always worth the effort since it doesn’t get you energy that you get for beating them, but handy sometimes
pretty cool to see this done in 10 echoes!
I did not know the statue would be so useful
in the zora dungeon, you don't even need to go to through the first part. you can just table over.
3:22 When I tried this, I used a different way to make a staircase still using the boulder from the bottom (where the quicksand is)
1:25 I know it’s possible , I spent 20 minutes in the room
Was waiting for this video
14:42 I really wish I knew you could glide with monsters at this point, or even that those statues could cheese the room. I used lava rocks and platbooms to get to the end, and it was incredibly frustrating.
16:33 I've gotta know what button you have to press to get the top down view, I HAD NO IDEA IT WAS EVEN POSSIBLE
Click down the right stick. :)
Are you aware that Zelda jumps twice as high when in sword fighter form? Could be useful, and I didn't see you use it.
Easily overlooked. There were a couple scenarios where he could've used it and made his life much easier. But there weren't extra echoes learned for it so all good
Yeah, I didn't even realize that! Thanks for the tip.
the double switch puzzles can be solved by putting table echoes on the switches, then placing a non-echo object on top of the them and then despawning the echoes
EDIT: I should have watched the vid more
Wow that takes a lot of skillplay to do. Meanwhile, I'm getting all the echoes I saw but still struggling to pass each stage...
Nice video. It would be interesting to complete 100% with these rules.
10:01 did a similar procedure in the icy temple today and I realised I had skipped a room.
9:41 I solved the switch puzzles with tables! put a table on both buttons, put the armos statues on top of the tables, recall all echoes, and voila, both statues land on the switches simultaneously.
In the water dungeon, you can use water blocks and tables to skip the entire dungeon.
very cool video! You deserve a lot more subscribers!
This is going to be like minimum capture in mario oddsey
10:00 this is how I did most of these switches in my normal playthrough
I seen a guy on stream beat it with exactly 12 echoes (well 13 but he never used the pot), and he thinks he could have whittled it down to further if he did some things in a different order
This however puts that run to shame
The wind enemy also works instead of the wind cannon. I know this because i didnt even get the wind cannon untill i had beated the game and googled what echoes i was missing
What about a challenge about using the least amount of echoes used overall
That's an interesting one. Would be much harder to reach the optimal number.
@@SwitchSummit you could make things easier by redoing a section, and recalculating the number. Let's say you get across a gap with 5 tables. then you discover you could of did it with a bird... you'd simply go back, and redo the section (no need to load a save file).
incredible work!
simultaneous switch rooms can be done by putting table echoes on both switches then putting stuff from the room on the tables, then dismissing both echoes by holding the trigger. The one in Lanayru forces the strat you used since nothing is in the room.
also you can look down in 2d areas to drop tables beneath you while jumping. edit: whoops, you did do this later on
My strat was similar, I just activated one of the two switches myself while dropping an echo on the other.
I did eventually learn I could spawn tables underneath me. I think I figured it out in Eldin Temple.
That's really nice even for casual play throughs!
@@Hi_Brien In casual playthroughs it's easier to put a table on each switch, then some other object on the tables and call in an expensive echo that will wipe out the tables but not whichever echo was on top of them.
eg when you have 6 triangles, you could put down two tables and two rocks, then call in any four-cost echo to consume the tables and drop the rocks.
TABLE!
Grab a brush and put on a little TABLE
Why'd you leave the keys upon the TABLE
Here you go, create another TABLE
Aaand now, min-echoes speedrun category
testing echoes
Tornado, blows sand and lifts objects to help you go higher
Ghirro, blows sand and can be lifted and used to fly
Gustmaster blows sand and can be used for flight
No other hole digger
Poe works ad light but nothing else
Wind canons do not dink in lava but were tricky to platform on
The Ghirro might be the best glider in the game, so it's probably worth taking instead the wind cannon.
I'm running a 3 Heart Hero Mode run where I've banned my top 25 echoes from my previous run, and banned any use of Link's abilities. I'm over half way through. I'm loving how open ended this game is.
Nice! Have you seen my latest video? It's more along the lines you described.
My next playthrough will be a 3 heart run.
My next playthrough will be a 3 heart run.
I feel like instead of buzz blob and wind cannons you could have taken electric wizzrobe and tornando. They do the same job but provide better offensive capabilities
sand piles can also be blown away with tornandos, which are more useful than wind cannons
I don’t think the fire puzzle leading up to Faron temple would be possible tho
@@deropige1317 Yeah, that requires either a quick turnaround with the cannon, or a rainy frog.
@@deropige1317there's a reason creating frog near which you could get there with bind
This video deserves more views.. As such I'm feeding the algorithm with this comment
Without starting the video, I got 10 echoes and I'm pretty sure that without wrong warp you can't cut any of them
Can't believe how little echoes you need to beat the game. From a hawk to a table
"say that again" 😂
New upload!🎉
Can you get the electric ball thing by the time you needed the buzzblob? If so, that was very useful for traversal in my playthrough.
Yep, that's possible as well. Definitely makes some spots easier.
Unofficial intrusive thought here:
regarding how an echo could end in longer tail on Tri, I kinda tickled to see how a word pun could potentially happen between English sounded vocabulary and Indonesian ones: did any of you notice how ECHO and EKOR (尻尾・tail) sounded similar ?
you don't need winged creatures. I beat all the temples with out them because I didn't know you could pick them up
9:40 wait is that how you’re supposed to do it? For all of those puzzles I just placed objects over the switches with echoes holding them up and then erased all my echoes at once.
On my first playthrough, I had an Armos statue match towards one switch and I stepped on the other at the same time. I figured that was the intended way, and the despawning echoes way was clever. Interesting to hear how many people used the despawning echoes method on their first playthrough.
I tried figuring it out on my own, but used 11 echoes
I wonder if the Trapoline can substitute anything. It tends to be rather useful for height
Although it is useful, you will already have the table, and it doesn't remove the need for any of the other 9 echoes.
I did a minimum a minimum everything run:
3/20 Hearts
47/150 Might Crystals
0/25 Stamp Locations Found
0/26 Accessories
2/8 Clothes
0/6 Automatons
No Link Weapon Upgrades
No Link Bombs
Energy Level at Level 1 out of 4
Tri Power at Level 9 out of 11
11/127 Echoes
0/69 Smoothie Recipes
1/16 Smoothie Ingredients
0/50 Side Quests Complete
0 Dream Challenges Complete
1/5 Accessory Slots
0 Dungeon Maps
0 Non-Small/Big Key Chests
With the echoes, had to use a trick with a table and tornado enemy a lot to give me height to forgo getting more echoes.
Lastly, I did get Link’s Bow before realizing I didn’t have to get it, but I wasn’t gonna start over so I guess technically not bare minimum but still!
My echoes were
1. Table
2. Tornado enemy
3. Owl statue
4. Elephant statue
5. Ignozol
6. Ice octorok
7. Electric green blob
8. Mole
9. Bomb fish
10. Eternal Forest Orb
11. Boulder
Nice! I'm actually working on one of these myself right now. It really is a natural progression from minimum echoes.
@@SwitchSummit best of luck!! If you make another video, would love to watch. Therefore, let me subscribe haha
@9:40 I didn’t know this was possible. What I did was put 2 real statues on table echos on the switch then undo all my echos at once
4:10 are blown blocks perma? If so, then maybe you could teleport out, (maybe even kill lots of enemies), to respawn the bomb fish.
Even after a long detour at Eldin Volcano, the bombfish didn't respawn for me, but it would be awesome if someone could figure it out. I feel like there were other spots later that also required the bombfish echo, although I might be misremembering.
10:06
...
you were supposed to use an armos?
Well, it's one way.
I know there's a glitch with tornando and beds to gain height, i wonder how many could be skipped using something like that
Huh, all this platforming seems pretty difficult when you dont just use flying tile to fly over everything
3:23 how on HYRULE do you switch to a more top down view?! I’ve already beaten the game but have never seen this done yet. I’ve even watched streams of the game
I don't remember if it was right or left but it's done by clicking one of the joycons
joysticks, sorry
Yeah, click the right stick
Now, do a three heart run!
Stay tuned!
Hawk table! Plat on that form
Could done the wind blowing winged echo instead of the wind canon, and killed two birds with one stone
Still doesn't drop the echo count, but yes, ghirro is a more versatile choice.
wonder if the tornado enemy helps? Does it blow sand? If do it also boosts jump height
Either that one or ghirro is an upgrade over wind cannon, although neither drops the echo count from 10.
I really do keep on underestimating how much horizontal distance you can get off of Zelda's jump. Really thought we'd need the bed at some point in the game, but sadly I guess not. I will say, the Spark and Ghirro are great alternatives to the Buzz Blob and Wind Cannon respectively. I am very curious how you managed to get up Hebra mountain without some sort of vertical climbing echo because I can't seem to figure it out
I for one was happy not to have to claim the bed. :)
Any part of the Hebra mountain climb in particular that you're stuck on? I thought I showed the trickiest parts in the video.