New SRAM Eagle Transmission Review: The Death Of The Derailleur Hanger
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- Derailleur hangers were so 2022. For 2023, SRAM comes out swinging with its all new, direct mount Eagle T-Type Transmission, drivetrain. In this video Henry dives deep into this exciting new product line from Sram. He also speaks to Mike Kazimer who's completed a 1000 mile review on the drivetrain.
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Mike Kazimers Full 1000 Mile Pinkbike Review
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00:00 Intro
00:58 Product Line Overview
11:11 1000 Mile Review
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Wow SRAM was very coordinated with this, my feed is absolutely hammered with Eagle videos all at the same time.
Nah, just an embargo combined with a pretty good/hyped product.
Most tech companies, especially for hyped products, have an embargo to the exact hour a release video can be published for a new product. You're just seeing everyone maximize that and publish just as the embargo opens.
Embargoes work. Everyone reviews the stuff, writes it up or produces a video and then waits for that special release date. Today in this case.
Exactly how the auto industry works.
Wow, looks like we're all on the same page!
(I composed my reply before reading.)
Absolutely not worth my attention.
Sram should pay engineers much more and fire all that worthless marketing bitches department so they could lower their prices at least by half. And only after sram drops their prices, it might be considered for purchase..
Looking forward to the NX version with cast iron derailleur
lol
lol x2
The iron age is back
runs on coal as well
No kidding 🏋️♂️
My dentist is going to love this new drivetrain
Imagine the shifting experience when you ride it for 50 meters.
best comment of the day
lol
wear a full face and you won't have to buy it for him.
I believe the claims that this drivetrain is the best shifting you can get on your bike. But the difference in cost of XO and Deore would get you a good hotel room in Moab or Crested Butte for a week, the extra difference for the XX would cover most of your travel and food. I know there are plenty of folks who can afford the XX and a vacation, but this is always how I think about the price of parts.
Henry is a gift that keeps on giving! ❤
The energy that's going on the Derailleur in Case of a crash, where does it go? Frame? In case of Fullys maybe even the Shock? The force of the impact will go somewhere and not just evaporate magically... I'm really curious how this is going to work out...
straight to the 5k resin frame
yep, I was waiting for the ,,Its a joke!'' part the whole video!
I was thinking the same thing, when you hit a derailleur (or put it in the spokes) the next thing past the hanger that usually takes all the force is the frame, and carbon frames already don't like super high impact twisting forces. So I'm very skeptical of this
That's what the plastic bumper on the derailleur is for. If something will break, it will be the plastic bash part of the derailleur.
It goes all the way to the Helmet and the MIPS absorb it, obviously!
I hope there's a lot of you guys who'll spend the cash now. That way, I won't have to later when the price comes down. I really can't afford this system for the amount of riding I do, and the type I do. But, at my advanced age, by the time this is "budget" friendly, I may be out of the sport . . . or in a box. 😵
You don't need this system, I don't need this system, I'm not sure who needs this system. I like Henry and I need to be entertained 😊
12 speed deore gets you so much performance for not much money. Anyone who spends a lot of drivetrains is an XC rider or a dentist, or a gear nerd.
At my 'advanced age' , I do what I can to avoid smashing my bike and self into things.
Time to buy a regular mechanical GX Eagle derailleur as a backup for when my current one needs to be replaced. As if bike parts weren't expensive enough already lol
I guess we can still go Shimano but yeah this makes me worried about how long they will support bikes that dont have a UDH mounting.
@@mushieslushiethere are still tons of new bikes that are still use quick release skewers, the market for the standard RD with hangers will never become obsolete suddenly
@@mushieslushie This is the entire reason for this design.
It's great to see a pink bike in a Pinkbike video! 😂
A key element to true innovation is cost. The low end on this is $1200 - for gears on a bike… I’m running EAGLE GX. Gear changes are clean, efficient and smooth. I really don’t fancy looking after another battery powered device. Perhaps one day, but honestly, I hope there is a mechanical version in the future.
lol about the Case International!
Great content, narrative and flow. Personally I like the face pace & verbosity! Keep it up!
Very interesting! Still will stick to XT on my bikes, shifts great and a good value for what you get for performance and weight
Even SLX and Deore are amazing when paired with an XT shifter (I’m currently running SLX with XT shifter and love it).
@@joelankeny6277 yup! That works!
I will stick to XT shifter and rdr +Garbaruk 10-52 cassette and oval chainring + kmc X12EL chain.
Best tranny combo.
R. I. P. sram.
My deore has been better than my XX1, Shimano was late to 12speed but killed it when they finally joined the party
@@adampetten1009 true!
Great review. Thank you for speaking slowly and clearly. As an American, I sometimes need subtitles for those who speak the Queen's English.
Great review, thank you 👍🏼
I never want my bike's core functionality dependent upon electronics.
After two years of use, I had a bad experience with a GX Eagle AXS : one of the pogo pins making the connection between the battery and the derailleur broke. Of course warranty was void by two months. When contacted for a solution SRAM answered me that unfortunately there was nothing they can do to fix my problem. Solution proposed: buy a new derailleur!! I will think about it twice next time, that's for sure.
as someone who has been working in the industry for over 10 years, I can tell you SRAM's warranty coverage is abysmal at best. With Shimano, it's nearly zero questions asked unless it's absurdly old or there is no way to determine proof of purchase.
additionally, electronic groupsets, as you've found out, have introduced many, many more modes of failure compared to their analog counterparts. consequently, we see more electronic components failing than anything else. I'll be keeping my cables until I die
Let's go boys and girls. The kool-aid is served !
Nothing will beat the butter smooth shifting of XTR M950 👌
this is the way
Ah yes, the Shimano guy crying internally because SRAM is sweeping the floor with Shimano
@@disco.lemonade holy jump to conclusions batman 🤣
@@zed5129 what was the reason? or derailleur made it , as he wanted by himself? Never had a problem with any Shimano drivetrain for 20+ years from Deore LX to XTR on near bikes mtb or road.
i was shifting while sprinting today on a flat bar cross bike running m950 rear derailleur with a 9 sp xtr cassette and a deore LX shifter. it responds to my shift inputs instantly and with 0 strain or groaning.
Henry another fantastic review and presentation. Wish you would do even more videos your skills as a presenter keep getting better.
In Ireland a 'shift' is a kiss and somewhat more specifically the teenage disco kind so it's funny to hear Henry go on and on about smooth shifts, great shifts, best ever shifts etc!!! Funny in a childish humour way😂😂
Great content right here. 🔥
It is hyper expensive, proprietary and not backwards compatible and shifts 2x slower. Brilliant!
And don't forget that those flat top chains have been independently tested as being slow too.
if you go back to history, old bikes had fixed derailleur hanger which can bend and easily lose thread in case of a crash or when the mech gets caught on spoke. it can be quite frustrating to fix and can sometimes lead to frame replacement. (this is the fear that some might think of when sram removed the hanger entirely.)
then comes the replaceable mech hanger, to prevent those problem from happening. once bent and lost thread in time of accident, you can just easily replace one.
mech hanger really existed to attached derailleurs and to make it work properly. as you can notice, all derailleur hangers has notch to with the b tension screw rest.
in short, this system may not be bad at all if they actually made it robust enough that during a crash you wont be thinking about your frame or derailleur but rather your life. also, replaceable hanger was meant to replace fix hanger and solve its problem, so this one here with sram xx is a new thing. so we should just wait and see how it fairs in the field as we cant reason our wives to buy it.
A friend had his rear derailleur and steel hanger & dropout wrap up and around with the rear wheel. He found a little shop in Europe and had the hanger bent back into place and aligned. This was about five years and hundreds and hundreds of rides ago. On a frame that already had over five years of serious riding and foreign travel on it.
Kudos to Tom Ritchey for designing such a good dropout and derailleur hanger.
Well there you have it, the next looooower, looonger, slaaaaacker thing you need to buy! Industry saved 🤠
Yeah, tech only the rich will be able to afford on their new bikes. 🙄 This tech makes the industry looks worse than it is now. It doesn't need more new, fancy tech, the industry needs lower prices on parts and bikes.
@Tivon Sanders, actually, the rich are not the ones buying these bikes or tech. The rich usually buy bikes in the 5 to 8 grand range. Upper Mid level. The individuals that are buying 10 grand plus bikes and 1000 plus mech group sets are under 35 Idiots with more money then IQ points. Or social MTB influencers that want the hits on there platforms.
The MTB industry are praying on the Idiots that are all about flash and bling that exclusively ride bike parks. The recreational riders that usually ride single track, that includes the wealthy. Don't spend there hard earned money on usless shit like this new group set.
True professionals that worked hard for there wealth, do not spend money on needless trinkets. It's the new easy wealth money like social influencers or young fringe professionals that spend money like it's never ending.
I don't see many doctors, lawyers, dentists etc, living in grandiose mansions. Driving supercar, flanting dozens of Rolex's, wearing overall expansive clothing. It's the individuals that crave constant attention and recognition that these manufactures pray on with these usless pointless trinkets.
A good cable actuated mech is more then adequate for the ruffest of trails one will ever ride.
@@PeterCPRail8748 Yeah, the idiots getting laid-off in my tech company that thought the pinata was going to last forever, lol. The whole, travel all the time on my unlimited PTO thinking it's not going to affect their work performance...or the people that think answering an email every couple of hours while at their kid's soccer game instead of actually WORKING from home is going to cut it. I bet there will be a glut of high-end bikes on the used market when those people can't pay their rent anymore.
Lol. Seriously. Let's get rid of all the bikes with derailleur hangers.
@@TivonSanders nah. Don't buy it if you can't afford it, it is not as if cheaper bike don't exist. If you can develop, build, and sell this tech for cheaper then do so and you'll get rich, you'd be the next big thing in the bike industry.
The entitlement complex in this comment section is strong.
Great review!
Great effort working them lotr references in 👌🏼
The integrated hanger mounted to the axle is a great idea, saves the frame from impacts since the axle will be taking the twisting and pulling forces. The worst it could do is dig into the dropout face if it gets really twisted, but the rest of the derailleur will probably give up before that that point. I still feel like it should still have a break away feature, such as a heavy detent that holds the derailleur to the hanger that can be reset on the trail.
what do you think is taking those "twisting and pulling forces" that are going into the axle? The axle is attached to the frame..
@@Lesdig891 lol, it’s mounted to the axle! that 29” wheel has a whole lot more leverage and abuse than the derailleur. You put you entire body weight, g forces and pedaling toque into the frame through the axles, I think it can handle a derailleur mounted to it.
This is turning things into a isolated "Apple/Mac" type environment. I'll be keeping my PC (and shimano).
This is the entire purpose of this design. Wrap frame, derailleur, and axle into a proprietary system that they can invalidate by simply stopping manufacture of a patented battery.
Do I understand correctly, that a complete AXS groupset with these new fancy features costs slightly over 3000$???
I’m very happy I picked up the light weight 2022 X01 (wide 55 chainline) crankset derailer, shifter, and cassette for my new build.
Before I’m forced to buy this much heavier group.
And the change they made on the gearing steps in the low gears ⚙️ I wouldn’t spend much time using them I would rather have something with better gear choices in the cadence zone.
looks & sounds great, the price is high like most innovative things that are new to the market but i geuss sram need to pay for their R&D work, under load also sounds slightly better than shimano, the groupset has a nice finish to it to.
Like the metal intro for Kaz!
It'll be interesting to see how all this trickles down to the absolute dog shit that is SX and NX. Saying that, if I was buying a groupset, rather than making do with what came specced from factory, I'd still be all over Shimano. Deore mech and an XT shifter is all I need.
I’m glad they don’t offer this to nx/sx. Sounds like broke people problems.
@@LCNismo sound like sram is total shitt! Especially considering it's price. I got XTR shifter and mech, Garbaruk cassette and chainring - works much much better than my former xx1 tranny, which appeared to be garbage that didn't ever work properly, shifted terribly even under light load.
Lmao what's your issue with nx or even sx both shift very well for the price point
@@aydenhanlon1674 both garbage shitt!
Like all the other sram
Kaz running for best human ever! You’re my hero! ;) “Oh Henry” you’re ok too.
Can’t wait to get a couple of sets.
How's the derailleur/chain slap? Adjustable clutch?
The videography in this video is incredible.
That Boromir-Aragorn analogy was savage.
Can I still use my thru axle with a handle to easily remove/put-back-on the rear wheel, or do I now need a wrench to remove/put-back-on the rear wheel? And if I need a wrench to remove/put-back-on the rear wheel, must it be a torque wrench?
Using the same music from Caleb Holonko's "Lights Out" was a nice touch
I love narrative sound. Especially in the forest - so smooth, I wonder what audio recording setup you use?
I love your Bike! The color the Spec... OMG!
Wish I had seen such labored intros. That era of Case was good. So were the Fiats. Man, Bromac developing here from my end down on the farm in Australia 🇦🇺😎
So how can you change a rear tire right now ? Do you have to adjust a system each time ?
From the title of the vid I thought there was a new Sram gearbox to compete with Pinion. I rode a Zerode Taniwha for awhile and loved the 1st gen pinion gearbox, except for the pinhole sized drive-side oil leak that Gates and Pinion service somehow couldn’t get rid of after returning it twice 😂. Gearboxes are awesome and the drag is not even noticeable compared with crunchy cassette shifting when you’re drivetrain is full of mud. There’s even thumb shifting available now, although the grip shift was easy as hell to get used to. The momentary release of pedal pressure when shifting was a lot better than constantly being worried about when to shift Eagle under load.
I’m now riding full XO1 AXS and Flight Attendant on the YT Capra Uncaged 6, which is definitely nice. I guess the next bike in a year or two might have this on it 😮
Yeah, I agree. "Transmission?" Hardly. It's a damn rear derailleur, just like all the rest!
But I disagree with your next point. Muddy, trashed drivetrains are still more efficient than gearboxes. It explains why the chain/cog system has prevailed for over a hundred years.
You may want to listen to the most recent Pinkbike podcast with Jason Chamberlain, 20-year Specialized "suspension engineer." He spells out the drawbacks of gearboxes pretty objectively.
That said, I really like the Pinion and would love to have it with a carbon belt on a bike. It's sweet!
@@dudeonbike800 yep, i know there are plenty of reasons gearboxes haven’t made there way into many other bike brands. Deviate started with one and then went to the derailleur :). I was so excited by the prospect of a Sram gearbox that brands would want to spec on their bikes. Sadly no. You’re right, just another derailleur. I’d ride it in a sec though if I had the chance. I love any innovation, even incremental steps forward like this. I understand Shimano has a patent on an internal geared hub which is also kinda intriguing - minus the rear axle weight. Less gears with bigger steps between gears like the 9 speed Pinion. I rode the 12 speed gearbox though.
Do you have to use the SRAM crank and it’s chain ring?
Whilst we all get excited about this being new, this is just an advancement of the Shimano saint m800 rear mech, that bolted to the rear axle
I made sure to read the comments before I said what you already have.... I had gen 1 Saint, it was wicked rugged stuff.
Something has to give, if not the derailleur hanger, maybe your frame.
So the mech survives in a crash or rock hit but the frame gets trashed
Henry, I'll watch everyone one of your reviews if you promise to always make LOTR analogies.
Will that shifter work with previous axs systems? That's the only part of my GX system I dislike.
EDIT : Just watched VITALMTB and apparently the controllers are backwards and forward compatible old and new. 🤞
On a review I watched earlier on vital mtb I think it said yes the shifter is backwards compatible. It's the only part of the new system that is .
@@michaelsturgeon5210 Cranks too, but I think only 55mm chainline version
Is this compatible with GT FURY PRO 2018? Not the 12 speed bit but the derailleur design?
Is the analog drive train being updated/coming out also?
Great thing about new bike technology is that school age kids can start saving their money today and then purchase a new bike when they are 35.
When you remove the rear wheel, does the derailleur fall off?
There's a threaded sleeve that holds the derailleur in frame. If you take a look at a UDH hanger you'll see the same thing as well.
No, it's treaded. It will just misallign
well that price seems hefty but to be fair if that thing is modular (if i understood correctly) and durable at the same time your probably make it worthwhile if you are prone to breaking your mech often
You just need to replace the carbon bike frame once a year now 😁
I rode my friends AXS shifting bike last weekend and did not care for the thumb placement, and this one looks even more ...... "bulky". Until SRAM can pull off the trigger finger single shifts and multiple shifts like Shimano, I'll stick with my tried & true XT set that has worked flawlessly on my Ripmo for 4200+ miles. Good review though....I'm sure they'll sell like hot cakes, just like Sram wanted. 😉
SRAM cant 'pull it off' because it's patented by Shimano
Who shifts with their index finger on a mountain bike?
@@nelsonglover3963 me
Found the Shimano fanboy. No one is asking you to switch, and why would you care if others choose this new Sram setup? It doesn't affect you.
I can understand it sort of for the racer, the totally dedicated rider that wants to change under stress, has to set their best time every ride, but for an average rider like me, i dont care if i stop on a hill , i already back off to change gear, and as the cost is HUGE, as like Shark Tank, im out, but for those who demand perfection, looks good.
I would prefer the shifter to go sideways, or be smaller, its a big lump of stuff.
Good to see the Pinkbike family enjoying electronics on their bikes, now for E bikes and built in gearboxes
So you can use your old AXS shifter but still need a new cassette to upgrade?
Yes, you will have to buy a new compatible cassette.
I'm still just waiting for gearboxes to hit the mainstream
Does your derailleur come off when the rear thru axle is removed?
Not sure what problem this is solving tho.. The price is a joke and it still has a long cage derailleur to smack on rocks.
Despite its design flaws, i still use sram gx 10-speed short cage because it keep's the derailleur far away from the ground. Yes i don't have the magical "520%" range.. but i also don't have to worry about it smacking thing's either.
For when you've run out of options for innovation, solve some problems that don't need to be solved. Extra bonus points if you can make it incompatible with anything past, present, or future.
Great presenter - very well explained.
can you still get a mechanical derailer tho i much prefer my bike not have electronics on it but ive been outa the loop for a year or two
Of course. This is just high end bling.
Can you bring your own crankset or do the chainrings only fit the new cranksets?
Looks like a ton of proprietary parts that will be unobtainable in 5 years when you need a replacement.
7:40. Are you saying these won’t fit on Super boost bikes? Just got the new Switchblade with universal detailer hanger and was getting excited about this.
Sorry for the confusion, it's Superboost compatible. Henry was referring to the fact that this drivetrain uses a 55mm chainline, which was accomplished by moving the cassette outboard by 2.5mm. In other words, you can now get the same chainline as Superboost with a 148mm hub instead of a 157mm hub. -Kaz
The point of a sacrificial derailleur hanger was to ensure your relatively expensive frame wasn't the thing to be irrevocably damaged in a crash. Does that mean your frame is now vulnerable to damage if you use this group set?
It seems that with all “logical” amounts of force going through the deraileur it can handle them safely. With the cage wrapping around the axle (and not the frame) it is way stronger that a deraileur hanger while not putting any forces through the frame
FIFY:
"The point of a sacrificial derailleur hanger was to ensure your relatively expensive frame AND REAR DERAILLEUR weren't the thing to be irrevocably damaged in a crash."
This is a boon to derailleur AND frame makers. Win-win. Boat payments will be made :)
well if a crash was gonna smash the frame up, not sure if this will make any difference to that outcome
With 550 to 650 USD pro derailleur, it is probably cheaper to exchange the chain stay anyway... :)
@@ApostolosK06 I'm afraid this is incorrect. The force does not disappear when it reaches the axle. It absolutely must react into the frame, as they are all essentially one rigid unit when assembled. I'm almost certain this derailleur must have breakaway elements, as the danger is not just to the frame, but to the rider in an abrupt stop if the rear derailleur loop were to snag on a large rock for instance.
More good stuff for my bike. 🎉
those macro shots are dope
I just ordered the SL system. We shall see if it handles the load of my Turbo Levo going up a hill and shifting. My current XX1 system clicks badly when shifting under load. You have to stop pedaling for a moment when shifting due to the torque from the electric engine.
Wonder how many 2023 bikes that have already been released missed out on this.
I run a xtr group with a xx1 mech and it works absolutely flawlessly!! Best of both worlds, we call it sramano!!
I’m part of that group, I too have sramano set up
Whats the advantage of doing this?
@@LastAphelion apparently a smoother less chunky engagement compared to SRAM from what I notice. I have another build with. GX setup and I feel that’s the only difference.
Love that 150usd chain
Does it have the crunchy SRAM shift still? Shimano 12 speed it so quiet and accurate.
Dentists around the world are very excited today !!
Downside is you will have a few new cavities on your next visit.
@@NONO-hz4vo we are paying for it one way or another
cool, i've won a brand new SRAM eagle Transmission drive train, thanks Pinkbike...lmao
Recently bought a non-udh frame from canyon, thanks canyon! I guess see you in 10 years, maybe by then i won't have to sell an organ for the groupset.
Everyone fretting about broken frames has no idea what they're talking about. The axle bolt is super strong and won't break. Old frames used to have fragile derailleur hangers built in to the rear dropout - they weren't bolted on, so when they broke the frame was toast unless you found someone to weld it back on.
AWESOME! 💯I just can't afford it 🙀
Ok, now stand on the bottom of the cage. Or drop a rock on it, to replicate a knock on a downhill run. The derailleur might survive but where are the twisting forces going to go?
Are the Cassettes seperateble in its higher Gears, ur do u have to buy a new Cassette every 4 Weeks on an ebike?
ABSOLUTELY NAILED THAT LORD OF THE RINGS METAPHOR BRO!
Rear derailleur don't support megatower v1 ?
I wonder why the shifter hangs so far down from the handlebar, Id like o have it snugg fit to the bar.. this whould in some hard ladnings hurt my thumb, I got big hands..
Seems pretty awesome... Too expensive to just buy as an upgrade though. Hopefully can get a future new bike 😅
Well it will rise the prices of the bikes if they add it. High end stuff is already busted. Carbon frame, flight attendent, wireless shifting, now this.
I feel like you streched that analogy a little bit too much 😂 3:50
So if you hit that derailleur, what will break? Either derived or frame? Yeah thru axles add strength, but with an impact the carbon would also could take a hit
What in the 2002 bmx is that front sprocket pattern design? Did the graphic designers really go with the old saw blade stencil?
Can't wait to get a rekt frame from a derailleur without a dropout. I mean it makes sense because the new derailleurs are more expensive than my frame and the hanger.
The top end group set costs almost as much as my entire all mountain/enduro bike
Anything that gets the derailleur out of the way seems like a great idea , however i'd like to see it in its like 3rd iteration, thats realistically when id be looking into it. Hopefully by then they'll start to come kitted on bikes instead of spending an arm and a leg to afford one
500quid for a mech? When the time/rock-strike comes buy a shimano xt or sram Eagle, 2 new tyres, a new chain, a new bb and new t-shirt with your 500
Any word if cable shifting Gx is to share the TT technology?
The derailleur does not twist from any pedal or motor torque as it controls the slack side of the chain. Pedal and motor forces only affect the top side of the chain.
+1
Given the sloppy af b bolts on GX, it’s a bit rich SRAM talking about tolerance stack…
Could SRAM move to optional automatic shifting, with a user configured preferred cadence? Could use speed, elevation, power, cadence and shock data to automatically change gears?
Can't wait to write my £4000 frame off instead of the £15 derailleur hangar 😂
The axle is the foundation and that is wrapped by a hub. The frame ‘should’ be safe if designed correctly. In fact, it has more protection
Ding, ding, ding!
(And I don't just use the word "ding" lightly. Thinking about all the "dings" my rear derailleur, pedals, & chainrings have suffered from rocks!!!!)
Tell me you didn’t watch more than 10 seconds of this video without saying so 😂
Watch the video and learn before typing nonsense 🤦♂️
Fully agree mate, they just removed the airbag of the frame.
The Eagle XX1 derailleur was carbon fiber.. I haven't heard or read anywhere that the XX SL is carbon.. I know its black, but I think its the same unit as the XX, but just black.. Does anyone have any info on this?
looks awesome! cha ching... ouch!