Alien Soldier is Treasure though, and they supported the system quite well. I don't think Treasure really made sequels back then :P. Plus Alien Soldier was also a bit of a tech demo as well as a ridiculously good game.
@@DehnusNorder Yeah Treasure did make some great Saturn games,none of which came out in the west except for Guardian Heroes. Raident Silvergun would be the big example of course. Working Designs released some of them for the Playstation, after they were driven away from the Saturn. But yeah,they didn't make any sequels to games until later on the Game Boy Advance when they needed money to keep going. Pity they stopped making games.
Hey slx, your sonic rant was totally heartfelt and I agree completely, the lack of a proper 2d sonic game on the saturn was a tragedy. Still you can allways play sonic mania on a modern system and pretend you're playing on saturn.
Sega Lord X - This is your most impassioned video yet. I could genuinely feel and hear the frustration and heartache in your voice at the lack of a Sonic title on the Saturn. I agree 100% with what your said. Nevertheless I did enjoy the other Sonic Team games for the Saturn - Nights and Burning Rangers. In fact Nights is one of my all time favourites. I did enjoy the Sonic Jam compilation and think Sonic CD should’ve been ported to the Saturn as well. Sega did miss some massive opportunities. They wasted time and effort in the wrong places, but the tragic history of the console is also a big part of its charm... just like the Dreamcast.
Just the very concept of a 32-bit Phantasy Star has me drooling. I absolutely adore 32-bit RPGs, and the idea of a single player Phantasy Star with fluidly animated sprites and polygonal backgrounds akin to something like Xenogears sounds like an absolute dream. Also, I feel like a Saturn Castle of Illusion could have easily been SEGA's answer to Mario 64, a slower, exploration centered platformer that could be compatible with the Saturn 3D Pad
The console should have had at least one Sonic game at launch. It wouldn't have been a mistake launching it even if it had been a 2D game. Thanks for the video. Cheers!
While I agree as a fan of retro 2D games I'd have to say that it would have been a huge mistake. We did end up with a "2D Sonic", Sonic 3D Blast - everyone recognised it as the half hearted attempt it was to appease fans. A completely original mainline 2D sonic game facing off against Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot in 1996 would have been incredibly embarrassing to Sega and would have cemented the Saturn's reputation as incapable of offering 3D graphics.
@@mashakos1 Mario 64 was released around September '96. They had almost a year to release a game similar to Sonic CD. 3D platformers only started to call attention after Mario 64.
@@dougr.8653 I'm not following your logic: are you saying that if a 2D sonic game released a few months before Mario 64 etc. gamers of the time would not have been disappointed? Hype for 3D gaming was in full swing after the playstation/saturn launches so....
@@mashakos1 WRONG!!! J/k. Seriously though.... Saturn is supposed to be this 2d monster. Think about Rayman, Castlevania, and say, Psychic Assassin Tarumaru or better yet, Astal. Great looking 2d games. A built from the ground up 2d Sonic or a remastered Sonic to me personally, would have sold me. I mean back when it mattered to the console generation.
I always appreciated the fact that Sega, in the Saturn and Dreamcast eras, continued to create new IPs and didn't churn out sequel after sequel to their most popular Genesis franchises. It was probably to their detriment though.
@referral madness After watching this episode a couple of times, I now understand where SLX is coming from... I have always been a Sonic fan and not having him on Saturn, not having SOR, not having some of these other IPs...and then knowing that Sega back-stabbed, betrayed, and took advantage of customers by killing the 32x off so early (a $150.00 machine!), simply made my decision to not purchase a Saturn, a no brainier. This was a different Sega. The Sega of the Genesis era to me, seemed awesome. Having familiar IPs at least then, would have made me want to at least consider the possibility of buying one. I bought my first Saturn around 2010....? So they just fell off the proverbial map.
@referral madness Sega was awesome back then. Not sure why they couldn't work together Sega America, Sega Japan. Sometimes I think Sega America should have been all Genesis/Sega CD /32x, while Sega Japan should have been all about Sega Saturn. Also, maybe they should have called Saturn, like 64x, to show the world they were supporting both platforms. Or call 32x Mars... Either or. I don't agree with the premise that Sega had too few talented people and too many platforms. I could be wrong.
@Mr Scratch Prices have gone up on Saturns significantly. Sega made durable hardware, but in time even the best cared for machines are going to start breaking down, raising prices even more. And if you want original (non-repro) games to go with that....hold on to your wallet. A mini console would provide a lot of value to people who would like to get into the Saturn scene, without the complications of original hardware.
@Mr Scratch I would love a Saturn Mini just bc there are so many games that never made it outside of the Saturn (unlike Genesis and Dreamcast) including ones (IE Panzer Dragoon Saga, Burning Rangers, etc) that are way too expensive nowadays. I would also love it if it included a lot of Japan only releases since that's arguably one of the biggest things that has made the hardware so appealing over time.
@Mr Scratch I have original hardware and play on a normal Saturn but having a Saturn Mini with a single HDMI cable, light gun compatibility, mesh to transparencies like in SSF and higher resolution and wide screen support for the 3D games.
You made a great point that Sega failed to build off of the Genesis and instead made the Saturn a totally new product that was more like an arcade-in-the-home console. Especially at a time when arcades were dead in the US. Not launching with Sonic was dumb. I didn't even know the Saturn existed when it launched (born in '88) and the lack of a Sonic meant I never considered it a successor to the Genesis.
SEGA Didn't really need the US as much as the USA likes to think though. But they fucked up in their really important markets too. SEGA was huge in certain European countries, Oceania and South America. And yes TecToy was still selling rebadged Master Systems then, but with a good deal I'm sure they were very willing to Switch to Saturn. The reason consoles were so pricey in Brazil was due to silly import laws, and with TecToy SEGA got around that. The same could easily be applied with the Saturn. In fact this focus and dominance that the USA had on SEGA's outside of Japan's policy is what doomed the system! I mean why did SOA get to decide what was marketed in Europe and how?
@@DehnusNorderhalf of all Genesis/MegaDrives sold were sold in the American Market. American Market plays a big role on the South American Market. And because it’s part of the Anglosphere anything made for the American market can be brought to the UK and European markets without translation. The American market was super important, but not the only thing that was important.
Well, they had peaked, but weren't dead quite yet. Fighting games were exploding, given new life in the wake of Virtua Fighter. I remember what a draw that was.... machines with second monitors placed high to get attention. Meanwhile, Capcom fighters like Darkstarkers, Marvel, and SFIII were showing amazing polish. It wasn't like the days of Pac-Man and Galaga, but they were still going. I kinda remember it was around the PS2 era that I noticed them dying out.
Sega of Japan was too concerned with "the future of gaming" rather than playing off what they did best. That's just how it worked out. I'm not sure if you are aware, but until 2017 the creators of Eternal Champions were working on a project called Eternal Successors. They have a few screens up, but ultimately the project died. Eternal Champions didn't have the brand recognition outside of actual Sega fans to warrant making another marginally successful game... especially with Capcoms offerings hitting so hard during that period of time.
I think the Saturn needed Eternal Champions to evolve into a better game. Much the same way Street Fighter evolved from 1 to 2, or Tekken to Tekken 2. Sony secured Mortal Kombat 3 as an exclusive early on, had the hype driven arcade hit Tekken, and the popular at the time Toshinden. Sega had only Virtua Fighter, which wasn't popular in the US and Europe at all. Eternal Champions could have been Sega's 3D Mortal Kombat style entry to turn some heads. People loved blood and gore, and that's the direction Sega needed to go. No other 3D fighter at the time would have been similar.
@@SegaLordX I dunno, Virtua Fighter seemed popular when the Saturn came out in Europe... At least in the press. The problem was Toshinden "looked" better.
@7MGTESupraTurboA Easy on the vitriol there fella. No one was drinking anything. I happened to have already owned Art of Fighting and Fatal Fury before I ever purchased this. However, not being independently wealthy in my teens, I didn't own a Neo Geo, nor did anyone I know. Either way, comparing actual arcade games to other home consoles at the time is a tad on the pointless side. You mention that Killer Instinct was a good port, of an Arcade game. It was. However it was also done 2 years later, and on a 32meg cart. Not sure why you chose to mention that. Sega of America was tasked to create a stopgap (32x) to bridge the arrival of the Saturn, by Nakayama himself. It's not a foolish decision the SOA came up with all by themselves. Again...not sure what you are talking about. I was talking about why they never created a follow up to Eternal Champions, which had, as I said, marginal success. Marginal doesn't mean good. Personally, I liked the game. I also like Weaponlord. Both games took some getting used to, but also had deep and enriching gameplay that you wouldn't even see until the SF Alpha series was ported to home. I digress. A follow-up on the Saturn or even Dreamcast could have been something, however Sega of Japan, or Sega Proper....had no interest. That is my opinion and doesn't require vitriolic, unquantified and poorly researched comments.
I imagine that Sega would make a mess of it. Too busy making Clockwork Knight and Bug games. Sega outside of the Arcade teams was a pile of fail from 1995-2000.
Fantasy zone should of been on the Saturn, just think how gorgeous it could of looked if it was built from the ground up. Streets of rage 4 and a port of Golden Axe Death Adder defiantly should of been made aswell.
Revenge of Death Adder would've been way better received than that ugly crappy ass fighting game. WTF were Sega thinking during those days? Granted I already know, Genesis was only popular due to Sega of America & SOJ purposely forced SOA to make 32x without telling the American division about the Saturn. After the 16bit era, Sega was completely run by Sega of Japan & it shows coz they went back to the obscurity they had before Genesis. Sega is doing good now, only due to Sammy currently managing them. Sega of Japan's management from the 32X - Dreamcast was all sorts of weird financial decisions that just led to them imploding.
@@BoozeAholicthe fighting game isn’t ugly at all, and I actually have a lot of fun with it. But I think they should have done both, since making a fighting game is way more resource intensive than porting the two arcade games; they should have ported those two together like SLX suggests on another video, if that had happened more people would have given the fighter a chance. It’s actually good.
I'm British and was just entering my teens at the time of the Saturn's launch in the UK, I was the ideal customer to ask for a Saturn from my Mum (my Mum Dad split when I was 8 and at the time I was not seeing or speaking to my Dad) and Grandma as a birthday present, even if it meant me getting a kid job as well like a paper round or something to help towards it as my family were not well off, but there was one problem...no Sonic. It's hard to describe to people who had not lived though it just how much street cred Sonic had with the tween and young teen demographic at the time. The British Sonic comic, known nowadays as Fleetway wowed up with it's action, dry satirical humor and dramatic moments along with the Sonic cartoon SatAM that we talked about endlessly not to mention the megadrive games themselves. I didn't even have a megadrive growing up but a SNES as I was given one second hand by one my Mum's boyfriends who did not play it much anymore and so had to play Sonic games round my cozen's house but I was still in love with that IP and ready to go over to a Saturn. I remember at school the different gaming magazines at the time being exchanged as us Sonic fans eagerly awaited news of the new main Sonic game to be announced with the lunch of the Saturn, it simply did not occur to any of us that there would not be a new main Sonic game at lunch, to us Sonic WAS Sega. When it finally dawned on us that there would be no new Sonic game at lunch and that there was not even one in development, it hit us hard, in our child worldview we felt Sega had betrayed us. Still, for a time we did not lose hope, we figured one was going to come eventually and the sentiment was we'd ask our parents for a Saturn when it came out...then came Sonic R. I remember it clearly, bare in mind I was a Sonic fan boy at time, seeing Sonic R on the cover of some gaming magazine in the newsagents and driving at it, my blood pumping and turning the pages so hard and fast there was a risk of tearing the pages only to discover this was a racing game. If we had felt let down before, now we felt positively insulted, it was like a massive slap in the face, that Sega was disrespecting us as fans but also Sonic itself, the franchise we loved. It was as though they were saying, oh you want a Sonic game do you? Here just take this shitty racing game and shut up. Again, child logic, but it's how me and my friends honestly felt at the time and neither me or any of my friends ended up getting a Saturn. The above of course is purely anecdotal and I've no idea how representative it was of over tween's and young teens outside my social circle and so I'm not making any bold claims here, simply sharing these experiences so show how not having a main Sonic title at launch or even a little later into the Saurn's life did have an impact on people.
I think Sonic 4 is the game the Saturn needed most. The three previous entries were all in the Genesis' top five selling games, plus it would've looked fantastic but especially for the time. Missing Mickey Mouse is a big deal, but missing out on Disney games in general also hurt the Saturn. Aladdin was the third best-selling game on the Genesis, and I'm sure all/most Disney games back then sold decently on principle. Add to that missing out on a lot of sports games (formerly Sega's bread and butter) and I think they missed out on several million console sales. To me it always felt like Sega was afraid of being "type casted". Instead of following the formula of what works they spread themselves too thin and wanted to work with a clean slate. That's admirable in a way, and Nintendo are probably the masters of it, but Sega in my opinion just kept "overthinking" the problem. The PlayStation was a MONSTER when it came to its sheer amount of games in just about every genre, many of them being timeless classics, but Sega left many timeless classics in Japan due to the risk of losing money. I've never understood a console having to "win" a console generation. If the console makes a worthwhile profit then it's a success for the company, and if it has good games then it's a success with buyers. The Genesis didn't "win" its console war but it was very successful to both Sega and its fans. The Saturn didn't have to defeat the PlaySation, all it had to do is sell 10-20 million more consoles and Sega would've been high-fiving each other. And between Sonic 4 (and 5?), Disney, and earlier sports games I believe Sega could've probably sold 10 million more consoles.
@@SegaLordX I tend to lump the Saturn and Wii U in the same category, and it really exposes the difference between Sega and Nintendo in my opinion. Both consoles lost out on the bigger 3rd party companies during their generation, and both lost out on sports games and other license games. The Saturn was basically Sega rebranding themselves while the Wii U was trying to ride on its predecessor's coat tails. Both were criminally underrated in my opinion, but while Sega tried shaking things up and cutting costs Nintendo kinda went all out getting their 3rd party games out there, and even used their previous successes to their advantage (which also hurt them). However, Nintendo used their failures to learn, and basically sacrificed the Wii U's legacy to launch the Switch. Besides the games missing I mentioned above, I wonder how the Saturn would've fared if the Sega CD and 32X were able to improve the Saturn's library, and if the Saturn's games in turn helped the Dreamcast as the Wii U's "failures" have helped the Switch.
immortallegacy100 if we look at sonic adventure and stripped its polygons down to a 32-bit machine...as a launch title or pack in..we would be humming. A different story .. Sega also did themselves a disservice that no one talked about.. 1.They wanted to Saturn to have internal memory -instead if memory card sold separately -like Sony did 2.this stupid feature that played video movies with inserting some mamjo jumbo 3.this karaoke feature -------------------------- These three was why the Saturn was priced at $399.99 instead of $299.99 ------------------------- The controller debacle Sega knew analog sticks was the way of future ..but I instead of sticking it on a 6-button . They have 3 different controllers 1.the knights controller which was just ugly 2.the Japan controller -which just needed analogs 3.the u.s stupid monster .. Sega just don’t take their time and research and make one solid concrete decision ..the rushed everything. Saturn. Was just a show of guns ....sega of Japan was wanted to control everything with their jealousy instead of being greatful the company did well in other countries
ALTHOUGH I.... first tried columns on VERY unreliable Master System converter and still was so intrigued even then, fluid flow and all the splendour of Columns 97 is HARD to be because the groovy nature makes it worthwhile to try and handle any time, late evnings, early morning sitting back and relaxing on a couch, having tea back to back but still feeling that I am in Control without worrying about anything whatsoever. the splendour and the flow in both gameplay and Graphics makes it one of the best gaming experiences I have ever had, EVER.
Back when the saturn launched, and we all had our saturns playing virtua fighter , we all just assumed an original sonic game was inevitable. We had no evidence or reason to think this, we just assumed. Then we got 3D Blast, Sonic Jam, and Sonic R instead and couldn’t help but wonder, why ? Then the assumption was that Nights was the new mascot. Keep in mind, we look at the saturn and it’s library with 2019 hindsight. Back in ‘95 and ‘96 there was a huge push for everything to be in 3D. That doesn’t excuse Sega and their choices, but it explains the mindset at the time.
I guess Sega was adamant that Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium also was the end of the series itself. It had that vibe at the time. I don't know why that had to be the case, even if they had to give it to a new team. The one upside to that is the series went out on a high note. Just for clarity, I consider Phantasy Star Online to be a reuse of the franchise, not a continuation of any series. I remember there being some excitement at the idea of a Streets of Rage 4 when it was rumored to be in the works, though that may have been Dreamcast era. I also forget if there were rumblings at the time that Fighting Force was intended as a Streets of Rage 4. Again, I remember some people talking positively about the idea of SoR4, so some fans were there at least. It's almost like Sega took a look at their sales trends with that series and decided it was dead. I think it's typical for franchises to fall off a bit in sales over time, perhaps with the part two being the best seller in some cases(like Mortal Kombat 2). But not continuing Streets of Rage might have made business sense on the Genesis, but they were starting all over again on Saturn. Even if sales had trended downward, it was still a known property and had the potential to excite people who knew of it. Any new IPs would be starting from zero. Besides, Streets of Rage 3 came out a bit late in the life of the Genesis, was a bit lost in the shuffle(I heard very little about it), and was obnoxiously difficult thanks to SoA's tinkering. The series may have had new energy on a new console where it could stand out again. As for Sonic, they should have had something. I would have been cool even if it was straight 2D. Saturn's 2D was so good, they could have come up with something impressive. Perhaps that was the time to do a new art style suited to the Saturn's higher capability. I wouldn't have minded a 2D Sonic that looked way more advanced than anything the SNES could do, much like Mega Man X4 and Metal Slug were a big step up from the 16-bit consoles.
@@Sega_Dreams thank you. That seems pretty well established. I don't remember if that was widely known at the time or if that is information that came out later. Perhaps you remember if it was known when the game was new.
@@ravagingwolverine I definitely remember magazines making comparisons of FF to SoR, but I can't recall it ever being explicitly stated that it was originally a SoR game. It's been a long time, and my memory is hazy. It wouldn't surprise me if it was known at the time though. Core Designs had a fondness for the Saturn and were developing three games for it that were originally to be exclusives: Fighting Force, Ninja, and Tomb Raider. TR came out on PSX shortly after, and the other two games never saw release on the Saturn at all.
I remember GameFan magazine reporting an awful lot on a game called Phantasy Earth that was supposed to be the Phantasy Star sequel on the Saturn. From what I've read, it went through development hell like the Sonic game and ended up getting cancelled.
I remember walking through the arcades back then and seeing so many awesome sega arcade games yet so few were ported to the poor old Saturn, now if sega really do care they would start porting them over to the new consoles arcade perfect with a few extras thrown in for good measure and win so many new fans plus give us oldies a treat too.
I kinda liked that they were trying new things. One of Sega’s strong points is thinking outside the box. Mr. Bones and Nights are perfect examples. But I agree they needed more of their popular IPs to convince people to buy it.
Every system needs new IP's, but they also need to stay true to their identities. Sega pretty much abandoned every IP on the Genesis that defined them at that point.
Sega Lord X yeah, I don’t disagree I just appreciate a lot of what they did create. As much as I love Nintendo you gotta admit they are the flip side of that coin, churning out the same 5 games on every new console. I think somewhere in between we could have found a sweet spot. And let’s be honest here, Sonic in forced early 3D graphics would have probably been horrible... streets of rage and phantasy star I can see being alright.
Burst Your Bubble looks and plays are two different things. Technology was so limited back then. The best bet for a good 32 bit sonic would have been side scrolling with sprites, IMO. Not saying good 3D wasn’t possible then, I loved Nights, but the on foot segments looked and controlled terrible. Sonic Team was still finding their ground with the new technology. I didn’t play Burning Rangers so I cant judge it.
Burst Your Bubble possibly so but Nintendo just seemed to get 3D right from the get go. Mario and Zelda are exceptions to the rule. Look at stuff like Castlevania 64. I can’t say Sonic 3D would have sucked, but I can’t say it wouldn’t have either.
You're totally right. I remember back in those days, reading something like "Meet Sega's new mascot, Bug!" i was like, "Bug?!!" Where the heck is Sonic? And Sonic never truly came...but Bug got a sequel. I will go further and say that Sonic should have never gone to 3D in 16-bit or in that generation. The isometric Sonic 3D Blast should have been replaced with a "Sonic 4". Sonic X-Treme could disappear and give its warpy crap to another IP. For the Saturn, "Sonic 5" using the Saturn's glorious 2D capabilities, should have come out...with graphics and gameplay like Sonic Mania (and the exact same 3D special stages!).
It is a well known fact that the Saturn failed partly (mostly) because of divergence of opinion (and management) between Sega of America and Sega of Japan. It is just too bad both the Genesis in the later years and the Saturn paid the price for these disagreements.
What about Gekido Urban Fighter? That game trully satisfied my lush of 32 bit Streets Of Rage (Dynamite Deka/Die Hard Arcade too much like arena fighting and not side scrolling beat em up in my opinion, and there was also Fighting Force that similar with that), sega would have been perfected it I believe.
I'll be honest, in 1995 I was 7, but following the future of games the best I could, even being a growing Sega fan, I was extatic for Crash on PlayStation and Mario 64 on N64. I had a friend that owned a Saturn and Guardian Heroes blew my freakin mind, but I wouldn't get a Saturn until I saved up money to buy it cheap at a flea market. I discovered and loved Panzer Dragoon, Sonic R(hey at the time I was comparing it to Ridge Racer), NiGHTS, Virtua Fighter 2 and more, but the other consoles still held my attention longer given their quality and variety. Not that the Saturn didn't, but as a better comparison, I had my Genesis hooked up the entire time I played PS and N64, the Saturn often getting unhooked for other games.
Awesome video!! I really like the idea of Eternal Champoins with a Virtua fighter engine!! That would have been amazing!!! If only Sega had Sega Lord X in charge back in the day!!!
Excellent video, I agree with you on Saturn being its own system it also felt that way to me when I got it in '95 with all the new exclusive IPs nothing from prior Sega systems. Although that was fine with me since my first Sega system was the Saturn.
I think it made it easy for a lot of Genesis owners to move over to Sony. When they didn't see any games they recognized on the Saturn, they just ate up the hype train that was the Playstation.
Thanks for adding eternal champions which is one of my favorites. It was actually planned for the Saturn and was even featured on the back of my American Saturn box, but Sega of Japan overruled it to get Americans into the virtual fighter series.
I love the Saturn but it’s just too much to recollect for now. My mom sold my old Saturn and all of my games and 4mb action replay. I think my two biggest disappointed loses were games I never hear you mention. AJPW featuring Virtua and FirePro Wrestling 6 man Scramble. I think I’m going to look into doing an SD mod like I did for my Dreamcast so I can actually enjoy these games on original hardware.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the footage at 9:30 is from Sonic Z-Treme which is a new homebrew that goes to re-create the Sonic X-Treme game but actually playable. It's actually really cool and runs on Saturn hardware. You can find ISOs and such online for it. Edit: link: sonicfangameshq.com/forums/showcase/sonic-z-treme-saturn-sage-2018-demo.161/
Great video! I love streets of rage, eternal champions & sonic. I’m a new Saturn owner & excited to build my collection. I think if SOR had made it there, I’d been a Saturn owner over 20 years ago.
I think die hard arcade is my biggest Saturn seller. I fell in love w it in the arcade , but I never saw a home port of it. Closest I got was die hard trilogy. But there was a home port! & soon I’ll get to play finally.
GREAT VID! Absolute spot on analysis, especially on the Sonic game. Damn SEGA, finally you have the world in your hand with the blue hedgehog, and you ignore him on the Saturn?
This was a hard one to watch....its a what could've been that hits home to my 1995 self.Die hard Eternal champions fan I am by the way. Another great video ma dude.👊💥✌
Worked with Michael Latham on EC and EC CD. He had definitive plans to do a Saturn sequel but SOJ didn’t want a game to compete with Virtua Fighter so it was killed.
That's so unfortunate. Virtua Fighter was not popular in the US arcades even before the Saturn version showed up. Sega of Japan should have had the foresight of preparing a more suitable game for that market. A real missed opportunity I feel.
It would have been cooler if Saturn had Phantasy Star 5. Imagine a JRPG that could have competed against Playstation's Final Fantasy VII. Maybe things would have turned differently. Or maybe not.
Was Fighting Force not originally pitched as a Streets Of Rage game that did not get green lit? Which is not a bad thing, as it was a pretty poor game.
More than the IPs I feel sega was lacking the innovation that was needed to move into the game changing 3D 32bit consoles. They tried to stick to what they knew like they had for the Mega Drive/Genesis. They probably lacked money to support this innovation because of the bad business decisions made for the previous generation. Most innovation they had was Panzer Dragoon. The rest were arcade ports mostly. Sonic, Streets of Rage and Phantasy Star are definetely IPs that should have been there though.
Actually games like Viruta Fighter 2,Burning Rangers,Nights,Enemy Zero and Panzer Dragoon Saga all showed a great deal of innovation and pushed the Saturn showing what it could do. They just failed to get the word out and after a few years it was too late. After all the Saturn only lasted in North America for less than three years and only didn't even sell 2 million units. They had innovation,it actually had games you could play online like Duke Nukem,but it was too little too late. They also had a ton of money due to the success of the Genesis but they pissed it away making bad business choices. When the Dreamcast came out is when they had real money problems.
Sonic X-treme might have been the platformer that Sega were looking for but the way things panned out meant it never got off the ground...bit like the Saturn's fate ultimately....They could have even taken the Sonic Mania route, which some say was created as if it was made for the Saturn, playing to its 2d strengths...
I forgot to mention Shadowrun. Blue Sky produced a masterpiece during the Genesis era, they should have worked with them again. They could have crafted a 2D/3D hybrid Shadowrun engine with similar gameplay to that Genesis classic, that would have been amazing. Detailed 2D character sprites, and a rotatable top-down 3D world. Third person view for the Matrix. Alternatively a turn-based strategy (like the excellent Shadowrun Returns series on PC) would have also been awesome.
This made me think if there are any interviews floating around from former Sega big wigs as to what was they thinking during the Saturn’s run software wise
@@SegaLordX Actually there are a few interesting tidbits about the head of Sega at the time, Bernie Stolar,in mags like Next Generation I believe. I'd have to dig thru my collection and find them. He's the one that never even heard of the Streets of Rage games and pissed Victor Ireland,of Working Designs,off so much that he stopped support for the Saturn and made the Lunar Remake for the PlayStation instead. Games like Lunar might have helped as much as a new Phantasy Star game,but Stolar said that no one was interested in RPGs. Right as Final Fantasy 7 took off. Some of the choices he made while being the head of Sega of America are questionable at best.
@@SegaLordX It's just so crazy Saturn had a bigger fan base in Japan surly you have people with fond memories of the system right at there doorstep yet Sega of Japan does nothing in re-releases. Instead it's sold off the Shenmue rights (thank god in retrospect) and required arm twisting from European game developers to do Panzer Dragoon and Streets of Rage. I got Virtua Racing and am supporting all I can Sega Ages
You hit the nail on the head man. Of course there was a lot of fun to be had with the Saturn, but it could’ve been much more popular if they’d done the things you said.
Excellent! I'm gonna add Vectorman to the list... Seeing as the assets (3D) had already been created for the 16-bit era. Genesis displayed those assets limited as 2D sprites. The Saturn had enough horse power under the hood to render the original assets in real-time.
Man. I kinda wanna play me some Saturn. Magical Knight Rayearth looked great on the Saturn. So many games from a variety of genres to experience. With college teen coming up in 2020, I might invest in a Sega Saturn
I agree with all of your ideas. They had games they could have used as models for your picks. Like I would have loved a Streets of Rage that played like Die Hard Arcade. All I could hope for is someone out there, with the skills who can make homebrews of the games you mention. Because I would be down to getting them.
I wonder how if SOJ gave the SDK to SOA during the middle of 1994. Maybe it would have help developers to a head start in start of learning the hardware during that time. Plus, not even think of having a surprise launch in May. Just stick to the original schedule.
Saturn needed an Ecco the Dolphin...but a polished one. The Dreamcast sequel was borderline unplayable with its glitches and lack of direction. But the originals on Sega Cd are two of my favorite games of all time.
Videos like these are so tough. We can here the heart break in your voice SLX. Your love for sega is so apparent. It's good that you've accepted Sega's mistakes and can talk about it like this. What a bunch of stupid decisions they made.
Sonic X-Treme probably would've made me get a Saturn earlier (I got one used in 2001 for stupid cheap). BTW: Some magazine RPG feature around late '97/early '98 rumored a Phantasy Star V alongside PS Collection but I can't remember what it said exactly (there were no screenshots or any concrete info). It's likely the PS team toyed with the idea but made Skies of Arcadia instead.
You could put eternal champions into the Virtua fighter engine without necessarily having to apply the Virtua fighter controls. Which i would definitely change to give Eternal Champions it’s own identity. Maybe something similar to what MK Deadly Alliance played like (in my opinion the best playing of the 3-D MK games)
These are some well thought out points especially when you think about how many Mario, Zelda and Pokemon games Nintendo were happy to keep peddling! Such a shame about a 32bit Phantasy Star, it would have been awesome!
Great video. I completely agree on most counts. I do not believe that the team that made Eternal Champions game was an internal team. They might have been tied up with another project. Nevertheless, they definitely squandered their IPs. On the other hand, the Dreamcast had many new IPs, and I wish that they would have pulled more from their older IPs. Shining Force, Shinobi, and Golden Axe would have been surely welcome. At least the PS2 got love for the the first two, and the following generation saw the later come out (which I enjoyed).
Apparently Sega of America had Eternal Champions 3 planned for Sega Saturn near its original Saturn Day launch date, but Sega of Japan cancelled it because they didn't want it competing with Virtua Fighter.
I wish streets of rage had a 4th game on Saturn, with big sprites like guardian heroes or golden axe the duel, with 3d backgrounds and a semi deep combo/ juggle system embedded into the combat .
That Shinobi game looks cool. I wish they made games like that these days. If they made it now, they'd make it all cartoony-looking or add RPG elements or something.
I just ought the new Retrobit 2.4 ghz saturn gamepad. It feels very good. It does not feel as good as the 8bitdo Genesis 2.4 ghz pad, but stil feels awesome nonetheless. And really amazing that it includes TWO dongles! one for USB and one for Saturn! Thats a real value right there. but I gott ask, what about a new 3rd party Nights 3d pad 2.4 ghz next?
I agree existing catalogue should have been brought over but then again we might not have got all the great new games from AM2, AM3, Team Andromeda and new IP's from Sonic Team. You could also argue the same thing happened when Sega released the Dreamcast, many of the great IP from Saturn did not come to the Dreamcast. I think the shift in 2D to 3D was difficult and new IP's had to be created in order work with its limitation or lack of understanding, and only by the time of PS2/Dreamcast arrival many of the game companies started to bring back 16bit catalogue of games to the new gen. A lot of people rave about Mario 64 but personally for me it was just plain weird and empty game and I think this would have been the case for Sonic on Saturn, and even the Dreamcast Sonic was just on rails game with bad controllers. It took Nintendo until the Mario 3D land to bring true Mario game that felt like the old Mario/Super Mario and I think Sega has still a long way to figure out a 3D Sonic game that is fast, action packed without feeling on rails (or maybe it will never come).
The lack of familiar IPs is what made it so hard for me to connect with the Saturn. It's Sega in name, but where are the familiar faces? Shinobi X/Legions/Shin Shinobi Den/Shishkebabwhatever feels like a breath of fresh air here because finally, we got something that's familiar yet fresh, a good old Shinobi game that seems to continue where Shinobi 3 left off and give it a coat of 32-bit paint. The importance of their legacy is something Sega still has troubles with realizing even to this day, for their legacy does not end with yet another Genesis compilation. Although in the last few years they are at least letting other people play in their sandbox with games like Streets of Rage 4, the new Wonder Boy games and the Panzer Dragoon Remake. Here's hoping this trend continues.
I had such ambivalence about getting an N64 over a Saturn. I loved Sega and the Genesis, but the Saturn offered nothing for me. Heck, if they just had a new 2d Sonic I would have gotten it. Oh well. No regrets. I loved my N64 and it gave me some of my most favorite games of all time with Mario 64, GoldenEye, and Smash Bros.
The home brew community at least did some justice for Streets of Rage on the Dreamcast with beats of rage and all its mods. Still, the Saturn having a SOR4 should’ve been a no brainer.
They should have made a port of Sonic CD as a way to fill out the vacuum left by the cancelled Sonic Xtreme and buy some time. Due to the failure of the Mega CD, a lot of people didn't play that one. A Saturn port would also be able to implement higher quality FMVs like the PC port did.
I'm sorry sega lord. You put that streets of rage sound track on your video and I had to leave and relisten to the s.o.r. 2 soundtracks. I forgot how good the music was. I 've just come back to finish rest of your great video!
Dude, I think this a great list of what should’ve been. The climate at the time was so “3D” heavy that even if Sega dropped all kinds of 2.5 D games anything like that with their classic ips it sill would have fallen short. They would be revered now but not in the mid 90s. I say this as a first gen US Saturn kid.
I will argue that, while a shitty game, Congo made sense for Sega at the time. It looked to be a possible Jurassic Park like blockbuster. If it HAD hit, it might have been quite a draw for Sega. It was only a bad decision in hindsight.
I love the Eternal Champions game myself...when I owned a Saturn a couple years after it released, I was always hoping there would be an Eternal Champions game on the system, only to never see that happen 😢
From what I understand, the relationship between Sega and Disney was a contentious one with one individual at Sega saying that Disney acted as if it was fundamentally wrong if anyone but them made any money. I can see why the partnership did not carry over onto the Saturn. That said, I wonder if things are different now that Michael Eisner is gone.
Absolutely on Sonic. I was a Super Nintendo kid, but my little brother and I did yardwork for my parents all summer one year to earn enough money to buy a model 2 Genesis with Sonic 2 packed in for $99. I was one of the kids suckered into getting a 32X for Christmas the year that came out. When the 32 big consoles came around, I ended up getting a PlayStation. While most of my favorite 16 bit era games are SNES games, Sonic 3 & Knuckles (I consider Sonic 3 locked into Sonic & Knuckles not to be an addition, but Sonic 3 as it was originally intended) is one of my top 3 16 bit games. Today, in 2019, I'm more likely to pop in Sonic 3 & Knuckles for a quick play than Mario World or Donkey Kong Country. 10/10 game that Sega clearly poured their hearts into every aspect of. I feel it blew Sonic 2 out of the water in every aspect, which was no small feat. I totally get that 3D was the big thing in the 32 big era, but we have seen that moving Sonic into 3D is much harder than it was for Mario. What Sega should have done was take advantage of the Saturn's power and CD memory capacity to make a 2D sonic epic like no one had ever seen. I know this is too much to ask since hindsight is 20/20, but if Sega had put their all into a 2D sonic game on the Saturn to kick it up from Sonic 3 & Knuckles, we'd still be talking about that game today. I am 100% sure than nothing 3D they could have put out at the time would hold up by any standard today. Look at Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. Great game, successful 3D Sonic, but it has aged very poorly. I'm still playing Sonic 3 & Knuckles, though!
I read that Enix briefly considered developing Dragon Quest VII for the Saturn. Had this happened and had Enix launched it in 1997, the Saturn would surely sell a few million units more and we would have seen maybe a hundred more games for the system... Of course this wouldn‘t save the Saturn in the west, were Sega made all it could to doom it, but we would have seen a couple of classics had this happened.
There are other games that would have been awesome to see in 3D or in HD 2D or something in between. Vectorman, Ristar, Comix Zone, Altered Beast. Even Golden Axe was under served IMO.
The fact that a game like Revenge of Death Adder never made it to the system leaves you scratching your head and wondering what the hell waa wrong with Sega at this point in time.
I thought the Saturn had quite a few great games from Sega but a Sonic game made specifically for the Saturn would've helped. Also Chakan the Forever Man sequel would've been good. I guess some games that are on the system were good enough they just needed to come out sooner. the launch of the Saturn needed to be better as well.
Great video and I completely agree. I think Sega panic with the new player of Sony coming in to play. Sega had designed amazing 2D system but not a very good 3D system, which surprised the hell out me considering there Arcade games at the time. I believe it was that last min rush of getting another CPU into Saturn system and having developers work on new 3D games for day one releases. Instead of releasing incredible 2D games or 2.5 games and using the system to what it was built for. "A new Sonic game with the Saturn would have been amazing" Sometimes though, I wonder what would have happen if Sega had of said yes to the silicon Graphics offering of their processor technology that ended up in the Nintendo 64.
An Alien Soldier or Vectorman sequel on the Saturn would be awesome.
Imagine an on rails Alien Soldier with an engine similar to Panzer Dragoon. Would have been epic.
That wouldn't have happened at that time though since Treasure didn't make sequels to their games at that time.
Alien Soldier is Treasure though, and they supported the system quite well. I don't think Treasure really made sequels back then :P. Plus Alien Soldier was also a bit of a tech demo as well as a ridiculously good game.
@@DehnusNorder Yeah Treasure did make some great Saturn games,none of which came out in the west except for Guardian Heroes. Raident Silvergun would be the big example of course. Working Designs released some of them for the Playstation, after they were driven away from the Saturn. But yeah,they didn't make any sequels to games until later on the Game Boy Advance when they needed money to keep going. Pity they stopped making games.
Or Alisa dragoon.
Hey slx, your sonic rant was totally heartfelt and I agree completely, the lack of a proper 2d sonic game on the saturn was a tragedy. Still you can allways play sonic mania on a modern system and pretend you're playing on saturn.
Great to see, that you managed to drop a Saturn related video (today) at the 25th anniversary! ^_^
Sega Lord X - This is your most impassioned video yet.
I could genuinely feel and hear the frustration and heartache in your voice at the lack of a Sonic title on the Saturn.
I agree 100% with what your said.
Nevertheless I did enjoy the other Sonic Team games for the Saturn - Nights and Burning Rangers. In fact Nights is one of my all time favourites.
I did enjoy the Sonic Jam compilation and think Sonic CD should’ve been ported to the Saturn as well.
Sega did miss some massive opportunities. They wasted time and effort in the wrong places, but the tragic history of the console is also a big part of its charm... just like the Dreamcast.
Just the very concept of a 32-bit Phantasy Star has me drooling. I absolutely adore 32-bit RPGs, and the idea of a single player Phantasy Star with fluidly animated sprites and polygonal backgrounds akin to something like Xenogears sounds like an absolute dream.
Also, I feel like a Saturn Castle of Illusion could have easily been SEGA's answer to Mario 64, a slower, exploration centered platformer that could be compatible with the Saturn 3D Pad
The console should have had at least one Sonic game at launch. It wouldn't have been a mistake launching it even if it had been a 2D game. Thanks for the video. Cheers!
Completely, unequivocally agree!
2d Sonic, with thousands of colors added throughout.
While I agree as a fan of retro 2D games I'd have to say that it would have been a huge mistake. We did end up with a "2D Sonic", Sonic 3D Blast - everyone recognised it as the half hearted attempt it was to appease fans. A completely original mainline 2D sonic game facing off against Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot in 1996 would have been incredibly embarrassing to Sega and would have cemented the Saturn's reputation as incapable of offering 3D graphics.
@@mashakos1 Mario 64 was released around September '96. They had almost a year to release a game similar to Sonic CD. 3D platformers only started to call attention after Mario 64.
@@dougr.8653 I'm not following your logic: are you saying that if a 2D sonic game released a few months before Mario 64 etc. gamers of the time would not have been disappointed? Hype for 3D gaming was in full swing after the playstation/saturn launches so....
@@mashakos1
WRONG!!!
J/k. Seriously though....
Saturn is supposed to be this 2d monster.
Think about Rayman, Castlevania, and say, Psychic Assassin Tarumaru or better yet, Astal.
Great looking 2d games.
A built from the ground up 2d Sonic or a remastered Sonic to me personally, would have sold me.
I mean back when it mattered to the console generation.
I always appreciated the fact that Sega, in the Saturn and Dreamcast eras, continued to create new IPs and didn't churn out sequel after sequel to their most popular Genesis franchises. It was probably to their detriment though.
@referral madness
After watching this episode a couple of times, I now understand where SLX is coming from...
I have always been a Sonic fan and not having him on Saturn, not having SOR, not having some of these other IPs...and then knowing that Sega back-stabbed, betrayed, and took advantage of customers by killing the 32x off so early (a $150.00 machine!), simply made my decision to not purchase a Saturn, a no brainier.
This was a different Sega.
The Sega of the Genesis era to me, seemed awesome.
Having familiar IPs at least then, would have made me want to at least consider the possibility of buying one.
I bought my first Saturn around 2010....?
So they just fell off the proverbial map.
@referral madness
Sega was awesome back then.
Not sure why they couldn't work together Sega America, Sega Japan.
Sometimes I think Sega America should have been all Genesis/Sega CD /32x, while Sega Japan should have been all about Sega Saturn.
Also, maybe they should have called Saturn, like 64x, to show the world they were supporting both platforms.
Or call 32x Mars... Either or.
I don't agree with the premise that Sega had too few talented people and too many platforms.
I could be wrong.
@referral madness
But that would leave the 32x high and dry right?
@referral madness
But realistically,
They could have kept them separate and still been profitable.
@referral madness
Question: how do you feel about having Xbox One X and Xbox One S?
I would forgive Sega for all past mistakes if they released a Saturn Mini with a great line up of games.
Amen, brother.
Yep, last time I didn't own every major console. Its library including the stuff left in Japan has long been of interest to me.
@Mr Scratch Prices have gone up on Saturns significantly. Sega made durable hardware, but in time even the best cared for machines are going to start breaking down, raising prices even more. And if you want original (non-repro) games to go with that....hold on to your wallet.
A mini console would provide a lot of value to people who would like to get into the Saturn scene, without the complications of original hardware.
@Mr Scratch I would love a Saturn Mini just bc there are so many games that never made it outside of the Saturn (unlike Genesis and Dreamcast) including ones (IE Panzer Dragoon Saga, Burning Rangers, etc) that are way too expensive nowadays. I would also love it if it included a lot of Japan only releases since that's arguably one of the biggest things that has made the hardware so appealing over time.
@Mr Scratch I have original hardware and play on a normal Saturn but having a Saturn Mini with a single HDMI cable, light gun compatibility, mesh to transparencies like in SSF and higher resolution and wide screen support for the 3D games.
You made a great point that Sega failed to build off of the Genesis and instead made the Saturn a totally new product that was more like an arcade-in-the-home console. Especially at a time when arcades were dead in the US. Not launching with Sonic was dumb. I didn't even know the Saturn existed when it launched (born in '88) and the lack of a Sonic meant I never considered it a successor to the Genesis.
SEGA Didn't really need the US as much as the USA likes to think though. But they fucked up in their really important markets too. SEGA was huge in certain European countries, Oceania and South America. And yes TecToy was still selling rebadged Master Systems then, but with a good deal I'm sure they were very willing to Switch to Saturn. The reason consoles were so pricey in Brazil was due to silly import laws, and with TecToy SEGA got around that. The same could easily be applied with the Saturn.
In fact this focus and dominance that the USA had on SEGA's outside of Japan's policy is what doomed the system! I mean why did SOA get to decide what was marketed in Europe and how?
@@DehnusNorderhalf of all Genesis/MegaDrives sold were sold in the American Market. American Market plays a big role on the South American Market. And because it’s part of the Anglosphere anything made for the American market can be brought to the UK and European markets without translation. The American market was super important, but not the only thing that was important.
Well, they had peaked, but weren't dead quite yet. Fighting games were exploding, given new life in the wake of Virtua Fighter. I remember what a draw that was.... machines with second monitors placed high to get attention. Meanwhile, Capcom fighters like Darkstarkers, Marvel, and SFIII were showing amazing polish. It wasn't like the days of Pac-Man and Galaga, but they were still going. I kinda remember it was around the PS2 era that I noticed them dying out.
Sega of Japan was too concerned with "the future of gaming" rather than playing off what they did best. That's just how it worked out. I'm not sure if you are aware, but until 2017 the creators of Eternal Champions were working on a project called Eternal Successors. They have a few screens up, but ultimately the project died. Eternal Champions didn't have the brand recognition outside of actual Sega fans to warrant making another marginally successful game... especially with Capcoms offerings hitting so hard during that period of time.
I think the Saturn needed Eternal Champions to evolve into a better game. Much the same way Street Fighter evolved from 1 to 2, or Tekken to Tekken 2. Sony secured Mortal Kombat 3 as an exclusive early on, had the hype driven arcade hit Tekken, and the popular at the time Toshinden. Sega had only Virtua Fighter, which wasn't popular in the US and Europe at all. Eternal Champions could have been Sega's 3D Mortal Kombat style entry to turn some heads. People loved blood and gore, and that's the direction Sega needed to go. No other 3D fighter at the time would have been similar.
james burchill exactly 👏🏽..if the assholes ..focuses on structuring their company into one global entity ....
@@SegaLordX I dunno, Virtua Fighter seemed popular when the Saturn came out in Europe... At least in the press. The problem was Toshinden "looked" better.
@7MGTESupraTurboA Easy on the vitriol there fella. No one was drinking anything. I happened to have already owned Art of Fighting and Fatal Fury before I ever purchased this. However, not being independently wealthy in my teens, I didn't own a Neo Geo, nor did anyone I know. Either way, comparing actual arcade games to other home consoles at the time is a tad on the pointless side. You mention that Killer Instinct was a good port, of an Arcade game. It was. However it was also done 2 years later, and on a 32meg cart. Not sure why you chose to mention that. Sega of America was tasked to create a stopgap (32x) to bridge the arrival of the Saturn, by Nakayama himself. It's not a foolish decision the SOA came up with all by themselves. Again...not sure what you are talking about. I was talking about why they never created a follow up to Eternal Champions, which had, as I said, marginal success. Marginal doesn't mean good. Personally, I liked the game. I also like Weaponlord. Both games took some getting used to, but also had deep and enriching gameplay that you wouldn't even see until the SF Alpha series was ported to home. I digress. A follow-up on the Saturn or even Dreamcast could have been something, however Sega of Japan, or Sega Proper....had no interest. That is my opinion and doesn't require vitriolic, unquantified and poorly researched comments.
You can't blame marketing for not being able to sell a piece of shit.
Imagine a 3D Alex Kidd on the Saturn.
Nah not in 95. Now a 3D Monster World or Ristar would've been cool. Or a better sequel to Tempo
I imagine that Sega would make a mess of it.
Too busy making Clockwork Knight and Bug games.
Sega outside of the Arcade teams was a pile of fail from 1995-2000.
Fantasy zone should of been on the Saturn, just think how gorgeous it could of looked if it was built from the ground up. Streets of rage 4 and a port of Golden Axe Death Adder defiantly should of been made aswell.
There WAS a Sega Ages release of the arcade version of Fantasy Zone in Japan.
@@mopefiend I was talking about a new Fantasy Zone game made specifically for the Saturn.
Revenge of Death Adder would've been way better received than that ugly crappy ass fighting game. WTF were Sega thinking during those days? Granted I already know, Genesis was only popular due to Sega of America & SOJ purposely forced SOA to make 32x without telling the American division about the Saturn. After the 16bit era, Sega was completely run by Sega of Japan & it shows coz they went back to the obscurity they had before Genesis. Sega is doing good now, only due to Sammy currently managing them. Sega of Japan's management from the 32X - Dreamcast was all sorts of weird financial decisions that just led to them imploding.
@@BoozeAholicthe fighting game isn’t ugly at all, and I actually have a lot of fun with it. But I think they should have done both, since making a fighting game is way more resource intensive than porting the two arcade games; they should have ported those two together like SLX suggests on another video, if that had happened more people would have given the fighter a chance. It’s actually good.
I'm British and was just entering my teens at the time of the Saturn's launch in the UK, I was the ideal customer to ask for a Saturn from my Mum (my Mum Dad split when I was 8 and at the time I was not seeing or speaking to my Dad) and Grandma as a birthday present, even if it meant me getting a kid job as well like a paper round or something to help towards it as my family were not well off, but there was one problem...no Sonic.
It's hard to describe to people who had not lived though it just how much street cred Sonic had with the tween and young teen demographic at the time. The British Sonic comic, known nowadays as Fleetway wowed up with it's action, dry satirical humor and dramatic moments along with the Sonic cartoon SatAM that we talked about endlessly not to mention the megadrive games themselves.
I didn't even have a megadrive growing up but a SNES as I was given one second hand by one my Mum's boyfriends who did not play it much anymore and so had to play Sonic games round my cozen's house but I was still in love with that IP and ready to go over to a Saturn. I remember at school the different gaming magazines at the time being exchanged as us Sonic fans eagerly awaited news of the new main Sonic game to be announced with the lunch of the Saturn, it simply did not occur to any of us that there would not be a new main Sonic game at lunch, to us Sonic WAS Sega.
When it finally dawned on us that there would be no new Sonic game at lunch and that there was not even one in development, it hit us hard, in our child worldview we felt Sega had betrayed us. Still, for a time we did not lose hope, we figured one was going to come eventually and the sentiment was we'd ask our parents for a Saturn when it came out...then came Sonic R.
I remember it clearly, bare in mind I was a Sonic fan boy at time, seeing Sonic R on the cover of some gaming magazine in the newsagents and driving at it, my blood pumping and turning the pages so hard and fast there was a risk of tearing the pages only to discover this was a racing game. If we had felt let down before, now we felt positively insulted, it was like a massive slap in the face, that Sega was disrespecting us as fans but also Sonic itself, the franchise we loved. It was as though they were saying, oh you want a Sonic game do you? Here just take this shitty racing game and shut up. Again, child logic, but it's how me and my friends honestly felt at the time and neither me or any of my friends ended up getting a Saturn.
The above of course is purely anecdotal and I've no idea how representative it was of over tween's and young teens outside my social circle and so I'm not making any bold claims here, simply sharing these experiences so show how not having a main Sonic title at launch or even a little later into the Saurn's life did have an impact on people.
Totally agreed with you, specially a saturn Eternal Champions
Yup
I think Sonic 4 is the game the Saturn needed most. The three previous entries were all in the Genesis' top five selling games, plus it would've looked fantastic but especially for the time. Missing Mickey Mouse is a big deal, but missing out on Disney games in general also hurt the Saturn. Aladdin was the third best-selling game on the Genesis, and I'm sure all/most Disney games back then sold decently on principle. Add to that missing out on a lot of sports games (formerly Sega's bread and butter) and I think they missed out on several million console sales.
To me it always felt like Sega was afraid of being "type casted". Instead of following the formula of what works they spread themselves too thin and wanted to work with a clean slate. That's admirable in a way, and Nintendo are probably the masters of it, but Sega in my opinion just kept "overthinking" the problem. The PlayStation was a MONSTER when it came to its sheer amount of games in just about every genre, many of them being timeless classics, but Sega left many timeless classics in Japan due to the risk of losing money.
I've never understood a console having to "win" a console generation. If the console makes a worthwhile profit then it's a success for the company, and if it has good games then it's a success with buyers. The Genesis didn't "win" its console war but it was very successful to both Sega and its fans. The Saturn didn't have to defeat the PlaySation, all it had to do is sell 10-20 million more consoles and Sega would've been high-fiving each other. And between Sonic 4 (and 5?), Disney, and earlier sports games I believe Sega could've probably sold 10 million more consoles.
10 million more pieces of hardware in the wild, would have made a hell of difference.
@@SegaLordX I tend to lump the Saturn and Wii U in the same category, and it really exposes the difference between Sega and Nintendo in my opinion. Both consoles lost out on the bigger 3rd party companies during their generation, and both lost out on sports games and other license games. The Saturn was basically Sega rebranding themselves while the Wii U was trying to ride on its predecessor's coat tails. Both were criminally underrated in my opinion, but while Sega tried shaking things up and cutting costs Nintendo kinda went all out getting their 3rd party games out there, and even used their previous successes to their advantage (which also hurt them).
However, Nintendo used their failures to learn, and basically sacrificed the Wii U's legacy to launch the Switch. Besides the games missing I mentioned above, I wonder how the Saturn would've fared if the Sega CD and 32X were able to improve the Saturn's library, and if the Saturn's games in turn helped the Dreamcast as the Wii U's "failures" have helped the Switch.
immortallegacy100 if we look at sonic adventure and stripped its polygons down to a 32-bit machine...as a launch title or pack in..we would be humming. A different story ..
Sega also did themselves a disservice that no one talked about..
1.They wanted to Saturn to have internal memory -instead if memory card sold separately -like Sony did
2.this stupid feature that played video movies with inserting some mamjo jumbo
3.this karaoke feature
--------------------------
These three was why the Saturn was priced at
$399.99 instead of $299.99
-------------------------
The controller debacle
Sega knew analog sticks was the way of future ..but I instead of sticking it on a 6-button .
They have 3 different controllers
1.the knights controller which was just ugly
2.the Japan controller -which just needed analogs
3.the u.s stupid monster ..
Sega just don’t take their time and research and make one solid concrete decision ..the rushed everything.
Saturn. Was just a show of guns ....sega of Japan was wanted to control everything with their jealousy instead of being greatful the company did well in other countries
ALTHOUGH I.... first tried columns on VERY unreliable Master System converter and still was so intrigued even then, fluid flow and all the splendour of Columns 97 is HARD to be because the groovy nature makes it worthwhile to try and handle any time, late evnings, early morning sitting back and relaxing on a couch, having tea back to back but still feeling that I am in Control without worrying about anything whatsoever. the splendour and the flow in both gameplay and Graphics makes it one of the best gaming experiences I have ever had, EVER.
Back when the saturn launched, and we all had our saturns playing virtua fighter , we all just assumed an original sonic game was inevitable. We had no evidence or reason to think this, we just assumed. Then we got 3D Blast, Sonic Jam, and Sonic R instead and couldn’t help but wonder, why ? Then the assumption was that Nights was the new mascot.
Keep in mind, we look at the saturn and it’s library with 2019 hindsight. Back in ‘95 and ‘96 there was a huge push for everything to be in 3D. That doesn’t excuse Sega and their choices, but it explains the mindset at the time.
I guess Sega was adamant that Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium also was the end of the series itself. It had that vibe at the time. I don't know why that had to be the case, even if they had to give it to a new team. The one upside to that is the series went out on a high note. Just for clarity, I consider Phantasy Star Online to be a reuse of the franchise, not a continuation of any series.
I remember there being some excitement at the idea of a Streets of Rage 4 when it was rumored to be in the works, though that may have been Dreamcast era. I also forget if there were rumblings at the time that Fighting Force was intended as a Streets of Rage 4. Again, I remember some people talking positively about the idea of SoR4, so some fans were there at least. It's almost like Sega took a look at their sales trends with that series and decided it was dead. I think it's typical for franchises to fall off a bit in sales over time, perhaps with the part two being the best seller in some cases(like Mortal Kombat 2). But not continuing Streets of Rage might have made business sense on the Genesis, but they were starting all over again on Saturn. Even if sales had trended downward, it was still a known property and had the potential to excite people who knew of it. Any new IPs would be starting from zero. Besides, Streets of Rage 3 came out a bit late in the life of the Genesis, was a bit lost in the shuffle(I heard very little about it), and was obnoxiously difficult thanks to SoA's tinkering. The series may have had new energy on a new console where it could stand out again.
As for Sonic, they should have had something. I would have been cool even if it was straight 2D. Saturn's 2D was so good, they could have come up with something impressive. Perhaps that was the time to do a new art style suited to the Saturn's higher capability. I wouldn't have minded a 2D Sonic that looked way more advanced than anything the SNES could do, much like Mega Man X4 and Metal Slug were a big step up from the 16-bit consoles.
Exactly!!!!!!!
In reality I feel thats what some Sega fans wanted and still want!
Fighting Force was indeed originally a Streets of Rage proof of concept. Obviously, Sega passed on it.
@@Sega_Dreams thank you. That seems pretty well established. I don't remember if that was widely known at the time or if that is information that came out later. Perhaps you remember if it was known when the game was new.
@@ravagingwolverine I definitely remember magazines making comparisons of FF to SoR, but I can't recall it ever being explicitly stated that it was originally a SoR game. It's been a long time, and my memory is hazy.
It wouldn't surprise me if it was known at the time though. Core Designs had a fondness for the Saturn and were developing three games for it that were originally to be exclusives: Fighting Force, Ninja, and Tomb Raider. TR came out on PSX shortly after, and the other two games never saw release on the Saturn at all.
I remember GameFan magazine reporting an awful lot on a game called Phantasy Earth that was supposed to be the Phantasy Star sequel on the Saturn. From what I've read, it went through development hell like the Sonic game and ended up getting cancelled.
I remember walking through the arcades back then and seeing so many awesome sega arcade games yet so few were ported to the poor old Saturn, now if sega really do care they would start porting them over to the new consoles arcade perfect with a few extras thrown in for good measure and win so many new fans plus give us oldies a treat too.
Yeah, the 50 or so games in the megadrive collection and megadrive mini are good. But they are just the tip of the iceberg.
The sound bites of game music you use in your videos is fantastic!
I kinda liked that they were trying new things. One of Sega’s strong points is thinking outside the box. Mr. Bones and Nights are perfect examples. But I agree they needed more of their popular IPs to convince people to buy it.
Every system needs new IP's, but they also need to stay true to their identities. Sega pretty much abandoned every IP on the Genesis that defined them at that point.
Sega Lord X yeah, I don’t disagree I just appreciate a lot of what they did create. As much as I love Nintendo you gotta admit they are the flip side of that coin, churning out the same 5 games on every new console. I think somewhere in between we could have found a sweet spot. And let’s be honest here, Sonic in forced early 3D graphics would have probably been horrible... streets of rage and phantasy star I can see being alright.
I think Sonic X-Treme never had a shot at being a good game. Sonic on Saturn needed to be like Sonic Mania, or Sonic Generations.
Burst Your Bubble looks and plays are two different things. Technology was so limited back then. The best bet for a good 32 bit sonic would have been side scrolling with sprites, IMO. Not saying good 3D wasn’t possible then, I loved Nights, but the on foot segments looked and controlled terrible. Sonic Team was still finding their ground with the new technology. I didn’t play Burning Rangers so I cant judge it.
Burst Your Bubble possibly so but Nintendo just seemed to get 3D right from the get go. Mario and Zelda are exceptions to the rule. Look at stuff like Castlevania 64. I can’t say Sonic 3D would have sucked, but I can’t say it wouldn’t have either.
You're totally right. I remember back in those days, reading something like "Meet Sega's new mascot, Bug!" i was like, "Bug?!!" Where the heck is Sonic? And Sonic never truly came...but Bug got a sequel. I will go further and say that Sonic should have never gone to 3D in 16-bit or in that generation. The isometric Sonic 3D Blast should have been replaced with a "Sonic 4". Sonic X-Treme could disappear and give its warpy crap to another IP. For the Saturn, "Sonic 5" using the Saturn's glorious 2D capabilities, should have come out...with graphics and gameplay like Sonic Mania (and the exact same 3D special stages!).
Congrats for the 40K subscribers SLX! You are one of my favorite UA-camrs.
It is a well known fact that the Saturn failed partly (mostly) because of divergence of opinion (and management) between Sega of America and Sega of Japan. It is just too bad both the Genesis in the later years and the Saturn paid the price for these disagreements.
So many Saturn videos. Keep it up.
What about Gekido Urban Fighter? That game trully satisfied my lush of 32 bit Streets Of Rage (Dynamite Deka/Die Hard Arcade too much like arena fighting and not side scrolling beat em up in my opinion, and there was also Fighting Force that similar with that), sega would have been perfected it I believe.
I'll be honest, in 1995 I was 7, but following the future of games the best I could, even being a growing Sega fan, I was extatic for Crash on PlayStation and Mario 64 on N64. I had a friend that owned a Saturn and Guardian Heroes blew my freakin mind, but I wouldn't get a Saturn until I saved up money to buy it cheap at a flea market. I discovered and loved Panzer Dragoon, Sonic R(hey at the time I was comparing it to Ridge Racer), NiGHTS, Virtua Fighter 2 and more, but the other consoles still held my attention longer given their quality and variety. Not that the Saturn didn't, but as a better comparison, I had my Genesis hooked up the entire time I played PS and N64, the Saturn often getting unhooked for other games.
Happy birthday Sega Saturn!
Fighting Force was originally going to be Streets of Rage 4.
Fighting Force was not worthy of the name.
@21st did fighting force ever get released? I can't remember seeing it but remember the hype
@@MrDreamer60 The Playstation hosted the game.
Yeah, you can play it on N64 wasn't too good.
@@MrDreamer60 I have a demo disc which has footage of the game, but Core then went onto exclusively make games for the PSX.
Man, I can just feel the passion and frustration of sega through your voice
Yeah, me too. I hope you are well after this, my Lord.
Awesome video!! I really like the idea of Eternal Champoins with a Virtua fighter engine!! That would have been amazing!!! If only Sega had Sega Lord X in charge back in the day!!!
Excellent video, I agree with you on Saturn being its own system it also felt that way to me when I got it in '95 with all the new exclusive IPs nothing from prior Sega systems. Although that was fine with me since my first Sega system was the Saturn.
I think it made it easy for a lot of Genesis owners to move over to Sony. When they didn't see any games they recognized on the Saturn, they just ate up the hype train that was the Playstation.
Almost 40,000 subs. I was here since around the 2000 sub mark. Great videos.
Your words are exactly what ever single fan of old Sega feel about that time , Your video are fantastic , I don´t miss any of then.
Thanks for adding eternal champions which is one of my favorites. It was actually planned for the Saturn and was even featured on the back of my American Saturn box, but Sega of Japan overruled it to get Americans into the virtual fighter series.
Now this would be a great question for Tom Kalinske. Excellent video 👌
I love the Saturn but it’s just too much to recollect for now. My mom sold my old Saturn and all of my games and 4mb action replay. I think my two biggest disappointed loses were games I never hear you mention. AJPW featuring Virtua and FirePro Wrestling 6 man Scramble. I think I’m going to look into doing an SD mod like I did for my Dreamcast so I can actually enjoy these games on original hardware.
No
There’s an AJPW with Wolf and I forgot the other.
Albeit you can customize a character in Fire Pro to be anyone.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the footage at 9:30 is from Sonic Z-Treme which is a new homebrew that goes to re-create the Sonic X-Treme game but actually playable. It's actually really cool and runs on Saturn hardware. You can find ISOs and such online for it.
Edit: link: sonicfangameshq.com/forums/showcase/sonic-z-treme-saturn-sage-2018-demo.161/
Far too caught up whinging and whining to say something positive lol Thanks for sharing the link, Shamrice. It's looking great!
The Sega Ages version of Phantasy Star, looks great
Sigh... Only if Sega Lord X was CEO of Sega of Japan back then.
Great video! I love streets of rage, eternal champions & sonic. I’m a new Saturn owner & excited to build my collection.
I think if SOR had made it there, I’d been a Saturn owner over 20 years ago.
I think die hard arcade is my biggest Saturn seller. I fell in love w it in the arcade , but I never saw a home port of it. Closest I got was die hard trilogy. But there was a home port! & soon I’ll get to play finally.
GREAT VID!
Absolute spot on analysis, especially on the Sonic game.
Damn SEGA, finally you have the world in your hand with the blue hedgehog, and you ignore him on the Saturn?
This was a hard one to watch....its a what could've been that hits home to my 1995 self.Die hard Eternal champions fan I am by the way. Another great video ma dude.👊💥✌
Worked with Michael Latham on EC and EC CD. He had definitive plans to do a Saturn sequel but SOJ didn’t want a game to compete with Virtua Fighter so it was killed.
That's so unfortunate. Virtua Fighter was not popular in the US arcades even before the Saturn version showed up. Sega of Japan should have had the foresight of preparing a more suitable game for that market. A real missed opportunity I feel.
It would have been cooler if Saturn had Phantasy Star 5. Imagine a JRPG that could have competed against Playstation's Final Fantasy VII. Maybe things would have turned differently. Or maybe not.
Was Fighting Force not originally pitched as a Streets Of Rage game that did not get green lit? Which is not a bad thing, as it was a pretty poor game.
I liked it Fighting Force to be honest.
More than the IPs I feel sega was lacking the innovation that was needed to move into the game changing 3D 32bit consoles. They tried to stick to what they knew like they had for the Mega Drive/Genesis. They probably lacked money to support this innovation because of the bad business decisions made for the previous generation. Most innovation they had was Panzer Dragoon. The rest were arcade ports mostly.
Sonic, Streets of Rage and Phantasy Star are definetely IPs that should have been there though.
Actually games like Viruta Fighter 2,Burning Rangers,Nights,Enemy Zero and Panzer Dragoon Saga all showed a great deal of innovation and pushed the Saturn showing what it could do. They just failed to get the word out and after a few years it was too late. After all the Saturn only lasted in North America for less than three years and only didn't even sell 2 million units. They had innovation,it actually had games you could play online like Duke Nukem,but it was too little too late. They also had a ton of money due to the success of the Genesis but they pissed it away making bad business choices. When the Dreamcast came out is when they had real money problems.
Sonic X-treme might have been the platformer that Sega were looking for but the way things panned out meant it never got off the ground...bit like the Saturn's fate ultimately....They could have even taken the Sonic Mania route, which some say was created as if it was made for the Saturn, playing to its 2d strengths...
I forgot to mention Shadowrun. Blue Sky produced a masterpiece during the Genesis era, they should have worked with them again. They could have crafted a 2D/3D hybrid Shadowrun engine with similar gameplay to that Genesis classic, that would have been amazing. Detailed 2D character sprites, and a rotatable top-down 3D world. Third person view for the Matrix. Alternatively a turn-based strategy (like the excellent Shadowrun Returns series on PC) would have also been awesome.
After watching a video on Tetris i thought id give it 5 mins on the megadrive mini. Hours later it was still just one more go. Same with columns.
This made me think if there are any interviews floating around from former Sega big wigs as to what was they thinking during the Saturn’s run software wise
Only interviews you'll see is Sega of America blaming everything on Sega of Japan.
@@SegaLordX Actually there are a few interesting tidbits about the head of Sega at the time, Bernie Stolar,in mags like Next Generation I believe. I'd have to dig thru my collection and find them. He's the one that never even heard of the Streets of Rage games and pissed Victor Ireland,of Working Designs,off so much that he stopped support for the Saturn and made the Lunar Remake for the PlayStation instead. Games like Lunar might have helped as much as a new Phantasy Star game,but Stolar said that no one was interested in RPGs. Right as Final Fantasy 7 took off. Some of the choices he made while being the head of Sega of America are questionable at best.
@@SegaLordX It's just so crazy Saturn had a bigger fan base in Japan surly you have people with fond memories of the system right at there doorstep yet Sega of Japan does nothing in re-releases. Instead it's sold off the Shenmue rights (thank god in retrospect) and required arm twisting from European game developers to do Panzer Dragoon and Streets of Rage. I got Virtua Racing and am supporting all I can Sega Ages
You hit the nail on the head man. Of course there was a lot of fun to be had with the Saturn, but it could’ve been much more popular if they’d done the things you said.
As per usual I AGREE on all points across the board. Very good analysis of what should have been!
Excellent! I'm gonna add Vectorman to the list... Seeing as the assets (3D) had already been created for the 16-bit era. Genesis displayed those assets limited as 2D sprites. The Saturn had enough horse power under the hood to render the original assets in real-time.
Sonic and Mickey in: Universe of Illusion
Now that would've been a good game.
It must have been difficult to hammer sega for their mistakes, true that they may be. It hurts😣
Man. I kinda wanna play me some Saturn. Magical Knight Rayearth looked great on the Saturn. So many games from a variety of genres to experience. With college teen coming up in 2020, I might invest in a Sega Saturn
If a proper 2D Sonic was released and the advertising reached me, I would have had a Saturn Christmas of 95.
I agree with all of your ideas. They had games they could have used as models for your picks. Like I would have loved a Streets of Rage that played like Die Hard Arcade. All I could hope for is someone out there, with the skills who can make homebrews of the games you mention. Because I would be down to getting them.
I wonder how if SOJ gave the SDK to SOA during the middle of 1994. Maybe it would have help developers to a head start in start of learning the hardware during that time. Plus, not even think of having a surprise launch in May. Just stick to the original schedule.
Saturn needed an Ecco the Dolphin...but a polished one. The Dreamcast sequel was borderline unplayable with its glitches and lack of direction. But the originals on Sega Cd are two of my favorite games of all time.
Sega really messed what they would had with the Saturn. There were too many games from the Saturn predecessors. It's a damn shame.
Hi Lord (giggle 🤭 ), your voice sounds more relaxed and natural here, it's very soothing this way so 👍.
Videos like these are so tough. We can here the heart break in your voice SLX. Your love for sega is so apparent. It's good that you've accepted Sega's mistakes and can talk about it like this. What a bunch of stupid decisions they made.
I'm no blind fanboy. I am quite aware of Sega's shortcomings. Always have been.
Sonic X-Treme probably would've made me get a Saturn earlier (I got one used in 2001 for stupid cheap). BTW: Some magazine RPG feature around late '97/early '98 rumored a Phantasy Star V alongside PS Collection but I can't remember what it said exactly (there were no screenshots or any concrete info). It's likely the PS team toyed with the idea but made Skies of Arcadia instead.
You could put eternal champions into the Virtua fighter engine without necessarily having to apply the Virtua fighter controls. Which i would definitely change to give Eternal Champions it’s own identity. Maybe something similar to what MK Deadly Alliance played like (in my opinion the best playing of the 3-D MK games)
These are some well thought out points especially when you think about how many Mario, Zelda and Pokemon games Nintendo were happy to keep peddling! Such a shame about a 32bit Phantasy Star, it would have been awesome!
Great video. I completely agree on most counts. I do not believe that the team that made Eternal Champions game was an internal team. They might have been tied up with another project. Nevertheless, they definitely squandered their IPs. On the other hand, the Dreamcast had many new IPs, and I wish that they would have pulled more from their older IPs. Shining Force, Shinobi, and Golden Axe would have been surely welcome. At least the PS2 got love for the the first two, and the following generation saw the later come out (which I enjoyed).
Apparently Sega of America had Eternal Champions 3 planned for Sega Saturn near its original Saturn Day launch date, but Sega of Japan cancelled it because they didn't want it competing with Virtua Fighter.
I wish streets of rage had a 4th game on Saturn, with big sprites like guardian heroes or golden axe the duel, with 3d backgrounds and a semi deep combo/ juggle system embedded into the combat .
That Shinobi game looks cool. I wish they made games like that these days. If they made it now, they'd make it all cartoony-looking or add RPG elements or something.
I absolutely loved _Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love_ on the ps2 and so wish the games on the Saturn and Dreamcast were localized.
I just ought the new Retrobit 2.4 ghz saturn gamepad. It feels very good. It does not feel as good as the 8bitdo Genesis 2.4 ghz pad, but stil feels awesome nonetheless. And really amazing that it includes TWO dongles! one for USB and one for Saturn! Thats a real value right there. but I gott ask, what about a new 3rd party Nights 3d pad 2.4 ghz next?
Saturn was just okay. My sega heart goes to genesis and Dreamcast
yeah saturn was just a ok console , people here exaggerate a lot about saturn
I agree existing catalogue should have been brought over but then again we might not have got all the great new games from AM2, AM3, Team Andromeda and new IP's from Sonic Team. You could also argue the same thing happened when Sega released the Dreamcast, many of the great IP from Saturn did not come to the Dreamcast. I think the shift in 2D to 3D was difficult and new IP's had to be created in order work with its limitation or lack of understanding, and only by the time of PS2/Dreamcast arrival many of the game companies started to bring back 16bit catalogue of games to the new gen. A lot of people rave about Mario 64 but personally for me it was just plain weird and empty game and I think this would have been the case for Sonic on Saturn, and even the Dreamcast Sonic was just on rails game with bad controllers. It took Nintendo until the Mario 3D land to bring true Mario game that felt like the old Mario/Super Mario and I think Sega has still a long way to figure out a 3D Sonic game that is fast, action packed without feeling on rails (or maybe it will never come).
The lack of familiar IPs is what made it so hard for me to connect with the Saturn. It's Sega in name, but where are the familiar faces? Shinobi X/Legions/Shin Shinobi Den/Shishkebabwhatever feels like a breath of fresh air here because finally, we got something that's familiar yet fresh, a good old Shinobi game that seems to continue where Shinobi 3 left off and give it a coat of 32-bit paint.
The importance of their legacy is something Sega still has troubles with realizing even to this day, for their legacy does not end with yet another Genesis compilation. Although in the last few years they are at least letting other people play in their sandbox with games like Streets of Rage 4, the new Wonder Boy games and the Panzer Dragoon Remake. Here's hoping this trend continues.
I had such ambivalence about getting an N64 over a Saturn. I loved Sega and the Genesis, but the Saturn offered nothing for me. Heck, if they just had a new 2d Sonic I would have gotten it. Oh well. No regrets. I loved my N64 and it gave me some of my most favorite games of all time with Mario 64, GoldenEye, and Smash Bros.
The home brew community at least did some justice for Streets of Rage on the Dreamcast with beats of rage and all its mods. Still, the Saturn having a SOR4 should’ve been a no brainer.
They should have made a port of Sonic CD as a way to fill out the vacuum left by the cancelled Sonic Xtreme and buy some time. Due to the failure of the Mega CD, a lot of people didn't play that one. A Saturn port would also be able to implement higher quality FMVs like the PC port did.
Virtua fighter was popular for a short time in the US
Beat ‘em ups worked in 3D. Anyone remember Gekido on PS1?
I'm sorry sega lord. You put that streets of rage sound track on your video and I had to leave and relisten to the s.o.r. 2 soundtracks. I forgot how good the music was. I 've just come back to finish rest of your great video!
As long as you get your Sega on, brother, I don't care how you do it. ;)
Dude, I think this a great list of what should’ve been. The climate at the time was so “3D” heavy that even if Sega dropped all kinds of 2.5 D games anything like that with their classic ips it sill would have fallen short. They would be revered now but not in the mid 90s. I say this as a first gen US Saturn kid.
Square *or* Enix… ahhh the good old days.
hi, where is the jingle that starts at 6:15 from?
It's the Revenge of Shinobi Game Over tune.
@@SegaLordX oh cool thx! A bit too short for my liking tho aha
I will argue that, while a shitty game, Congo made sense for Sega at the time. It looked to be a possible Jurassic Park like blockbuster. If it HAD hit, it might have been quite a draw for Sega. It was only a bad decision in hindsight.
I love the Eternal Champions game myself...when I owned a Saturn a couple years after it released, I was always hoping there would be an Eternal Champions game on the system, only to never see that happen 😢
From what I understand, the relationship between Sega and Disney was a contentious one with one individual at Sega saying that Disney acted as if it was fundamentally wrong if anyone but them made any money. I can see why the partnership did not carry over onto the Saturn. That said, I wonder if things are different now that Michael Eisner is gone.
If anything, they're worse.
@@chuckleshelicopterwigwamjo7315 I wouldn't be surprised.
Absolutely on Sonic. I was a Super Nintendo kid, but my little brother and I did yardwork for my parents all summer one year to earn enough money to buy a model 2 Genesis with Sonic 2 packed in for $99. I was one of the kids suckered into getting a 32X for Christmas the year that came out. When the 32 big consoles came around, I ended up getting a PlayStation. While most of my favorite 16 bit era games are SNES games, Sonic 3 & Knuckles (I consider Sonic 3 locked into Sonic & Knuckles not to be an addition, but Sonic 3 as it was originally intended) is one of my top 3 16 bit games. Today, in 2019, I'm more likely to pop in Sonic 3 & Knuckles for a quick play than Mario World or Donkey Kong Country. 10/10 game that Sega clearly poured their hearts into every aspect of. I feel it blew Sonic 2 out of the water in every aspect, which was no small feat.
I totally get that 3D was the big thing in the 32 big era, but we have seen that moving Sonic into 3D is much harder than it was for Mario. What Sega should have done was take advantage of the Saturn's power and CD memory capacity to make a 2D sonic epic like no one had ever seen. I know this is too much to ask since hindsight is 20/20, but if Sega had put their all into a 2D sonic game on the Saturn to kick it up from Sonic 3 & Knuckles, we'd still be talking about that game today. I am 100% sure than nothing 3D they could have put out at the time would hold up by any standard today. Look at Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. Great game, successful 3D Sonic, but it has aged very poorly. I'm still playing Sonic 3 & Knuckles, though!
U think there would ever be a way to develop an original sonic title for the Saturn nearly 30 years later
I read that Enix briefly considered developing Dragon Quest VII for the Saturn. Had this happened and had Enix launched it in 1997, the Saturn would surely sell a few million units more and we would have seen maybe a hundred more games for the system...
Of course this wouldn‘t save the Saturn in the west, were Sega made all it could to doom it, but we would have seen a couple of classics had this happened.
Got to love the super monaco gp music
There are other games that would have been awesome to see in 3D or in HD 2D or something in between. Vectorman, Ristar, Comix Zone, Altered Beast. Even Golden Axe was under served IMO.
The fact that a game like Revenge of Death Adder never made it to the system leaves you scratching your head and wondering what the hell waa wrong with Sega at this point in time.
SLX I feel your righteous anger about there not being a true mainline Sonic game for the Saturn.
How about Fighting Force? It can be SOR too.
I thought the Saturn had quite a few great games from Sega but a Sonic game made specifically for the Saturn would've helped. Also Chakan the Forever Man sequel would've been good. I guess some games that are on the system were good enough they just needed to come out sooner. the launch of the Saturn needed to be better as well.
Can you make a video on which 3rd parties game should had been on the Saturn? Like final fantasy 7 for example.
Excellent analysis.
Sonic Mania/Sonic Mania Plus saved the Classic Sonic series from going extinct.
Great video and I completely agree. I think Sega panic with the new player of Sony coming in to play. Sega had designed amazing 2D system but not a very good 3D system, which surprised the hell out me considering there Arcade games at the time. I believe it was that last min rush of getting another CPU into Saturn system and having developers work on new 3D games for day one releases. Instead of releasing incredible 2D games or 2.5 games and using the system to what it was built for. "A new Sonic game with the Saturn would have been amazing" Sometimes though, I wonder what would have happen if Sega had of said yes to the silicon Graphics offering of their processor technology that ended up in the Nintendo 64.