Bodycam: Ruby Franke Appears Angry, Annoyed While Getting Arrested for Child Abuse
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- Опубліковано 21 бер 2024
- Bodycam footage shows Ruby Franke being arrested on August 30, 2023, after her 12-year-old son escaped from Jodi Hildebrandt’s home, begging her neighbors to take him to the police station. The UA-cam mom appears angry and annoyed as officers put handcuffs on her and take her to the police department. The officer who transported Ruby to the department noted that she is “definitely not a talker,” noting how she remained silent whenever possible. Franke was charged with multiple counts of child abuse, four of which she pleaded guilty to.
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This is her, hard and angry. The soft, crying person in the court room is an act. She's never been soft and apologetic about who she is and what she does.
Exactly.
Here’s the thing, in her little “statement” at sentencing she never once said I’m sorry to her kids!!!
Fully agree. She is insane.
@@ndisfoshizI just told my husband about the same thing. That award winning speech she gave was infuriating and cringe.
Certainly seems very different than the other footage Ive seen (from her youtube show)
She’s annoyed, imagine how her babies felt while being abused. Monster!
That's what I was thinking too..
Sad.
More annoyed?
shes not a mother
@@GoogleAccount-yf2cx She is an abusive woman.
You don’t have to explain how the handcuffs work to her because she already knows from using them on her children
Omg just reading that is wild because it's fact😢💔
Oof
Well put!
Yes. I saw on another video that she had been using cuffs on the kids all along before Jodi.
She used duct tape.
This is why I don't buy her crocodile tears in front of the judge.
She was crying for her future parole
she was most likely told by her attorneys to cry.
Probably needed onions in her Pockets to do so! Heartless witch
But crazy too
Its not that she remained silent, its that she did so in such a smug, creepy fashion. It does no favors. No sympathy for her at all, shes just cold , calculated and greedy.
yeah, she could have just said "I would like to talk with a lawyer."
I'm glad she remained scilent, she sounds annoying!
Absolutely
@@lydialutz She said that at 10:35
@@AlexanderRodriguez-sf8bj Sigh, yes, after painful minutes of staring them down unnecessarily.
No toys, no clothes, no shoes, no trace of children in this house. Looks cold and uninviting, this was not a warm family home. This is so sad, to see no traces of kids in that inviroment.😢
I believe this was Jodi’s house. Ruby’s house wasn’t in St. George
That was not her house. It was probably a AirBnB or something.
couldn't agree more, tells you all you need to know tbh
@@LancerX916this was Jodi Hildebrandt's house
@@LancerX916Jodi has a huge house worth about 4 million with a panic room. The front door costs around 30 grand. She’s staying I thought with Jodi. Ruby had a nice home too. She made millions on yt. I assume she’s in Jodi’s since they are in the desert.
This is the real Ruby.....not the one who thanked everyone at sentencing.
💯💯💯
What was her sentence?!
That's how she brainwashed her husband (like AH did to Johnny).
Pace your hands behind you . Why ? 😂
@@DamplyDoo4 to 30 years, which I think means she could get out in that time 🤦♀️
This is the cold, unyielding face her poor children saw everyday.
facts:(
So horrible.
Everything aside, that home had a beautiful view outside.
I felt the same thing when I saw her dead eyes…
To think how MANY people want to have kids and are unable to from one or another reason...This women had so many beautiful kids and tortured them. Incredible
She can’t bear not being in charge,the arrogance of the woman.
And who wants to be in charged come on
@@desertmoonlee6631evil people
Narcissists will gladly make it known how far up on the spectrum they are by how they respond to losing a little control. I actually expected Jodi to be batsht crazy and maybe Ruby too. I did NOT expect Jodi to comply and Ruby to use silent treatment but that’s certainly a tactic narcissists like to employ. It’s so childish 🤦🏻♀️
@kateashby3066 yes..that silence is DEFINITELY one of their tactics 💯
damn you nailed it. that 100% is the reason why she was acting so entitled and angry
Ruby’s attitude makes me rethink her “heartfelt” statement and apology at her sentencing.
She actually had me fooled. What a manipulative person.
That's what I've been thinking the whole time I've been watching these videos.
Gosh me too! She almost had me with that statement!
It was NEVER heartfelt she was only upset that she got caught.
Totally
Making sure her handcuffs weren’t too tight. Letting her wear shoes. Giving her water/snacks. Knowing what she did to those kids. Very professional Officers. They did NOT want to mess this up.
This. People are acting like it's somehow a BAD thing... No, you guys, yes we all hate her but this is exactly how it should go. Power-tripping, abusive cops are bad-violating people's rights is not justice, two wrongs don't make right and all that.
Besides, if you want someone to open up and talk, you kind of _have_ to be nice to them... That's like... Human 101.
@@irradiated_woman8016 You do not have to be nice to someone to make them talk, torture has been known to work too. Shame human rights and laws get in the way of its uses.
@@Billy_Rizzle okay, cool, so when you or one of your loved ones is picked up for a crime they didn't actually commit-something that happens _all the time_ -you wouldn't change your tune about human rights at all, correct?
@@Billy_Rizzle you're a goof
When was she read her miranda rights? i hope
Of course she's angry. She's used to feeling like she's perfect and always in control.
Stripped of her validation, income and fawning audience her social media provided.
Her arrogance is crazy
Her everything is crazy.
So crazy.
Narcissist
@@kateashby3066 Through and through! 💯
She is horrible. I can't even describe in words. She is a monster.
Ruby Franke was a psychopath way before she met Jodi
Now she knows how it feels to be handcuffed & completely controlled by others.
She couldnt stand not being in charge.
8 passages , it over 😮😂
MAN....SHE is the most MENTALLY, EMOTIONALLY, and SPIRITUALLY CONSTIPATED person I have ever seen!
👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼
spiritually constipated lmfaooo perfect
Spiritually constipated 😂 I can't
Well said!!
Perfect description
Her demeanor oozes 'you are all beneath me'
Her perfume would be named Entitlement
She is very beautiful tho
This just makes me think that all the "regret" she mentions during the sentencing is a lie. I feel like this is the real Ruby Franke.
Agreed!!! Everyone should see this💯💯💯
Totally agree
Her regret is only for herself now that there are consequences to her actions.
omg are you kidding, that was a total act. She was saying it like ok, I'm admitting to getting caught, leave me alone now. And her attitude is probably because everyone around her is just like her. How else do you get famous on hocial media? Be evil. Join the evil coven. But if you get caught, they throw you under the bus and act like you're an outsider and they don't know you. They do know her.
Thank you, what I’ve been saying since!
She is scary. I dont believe one word she said at her sentencing. Crocodile tears.
Damn, She took the right to remain silent seriously.
Too seriously. It's insane how she's even refusing basic, simple questions that wouldn't have anything to do with her prosecution.
While I agree she's a monster, her exercising her fifth amendment right is exactly what everyone should do when arrested. There's nothing wrong with this behavior and it's fully protected by the Constitution.
No joke
@@thisismyname2936We all know that - but this is NOT the reason why Ruby Franke was silent and shooting eye daggers instead.
@@thisismyname2936 right. If everyone actually used their 5th amendment right to remain silent, instead of incriminating themselves during an interview, I'm sure defense lawyers would very thankful. Making their jobs trying to defend you that much easier.
She wants to speak with the manager… NOW!
Her lawyer
Lol😂😂
😂
And she is DEFINITELY going to SUE!
Exactly right
She still thinks she is in control at this point, which is hilarious. She found out she wasn't when she was whining in court. May she be hungry everyday while she is locked up for the next 15 years!
Up to 15 years per count, four counts each. So in theory 60 years, but Utah has a max of 30 years total. Still not enough.
Now you know America protect predators & people like her they get released quickly
I second that!
Och next 15 years 😢😢😂
This videogoes to prove that her 'apologies and thank yous' in court was all fake. This reaction is her true self.
Perhaps. But the point is debatable.
@@kevinhornbuckleNo it's not. Not for anyone with half a brain.
Listening to the sound of them walking down the driveway, imagine those kids barefoot out there. Infuriating
I don't think they had freedom to roam or play as normal children do
@cindyg- They didn't, but I read somewhere the kids were taken to her friends house to do yard work of some sort. I don't remember much of what I read, but I do remember it was bad. They weren't given anything to eat or drink while outside in the extreme heat and if caught drinking from the hose would be punished more severly.
Exactly I thought of Russel running away, being weak and emacieted, painfully. This child is a reel héro, if he didn't came out of this house asking a neighbor to call the police I really think it would have ended up in a more grimm manner
@@katherinedemaio4931please edit out the child’s name for their privacy. Don’t want their names on the internet bc of the horrors their mother did
They all that stuff and things to the kids 😢
Love how when she sat down at the station she IMMEDIATELY took a defensive position: arms and legs crossed, protecting herself. Always self-preservation, typical narcissist.
That seems a bit of a stretch. I'd say, someone who was innocent of any crime would be just as likely to act like that if they were arrested.
@@Smithpolly lol way to illustrate that you don't understand basic psychology and body language
@@johnsebold371 I'm always in defensive mode because of social anxiety. My body language is similar to her
She thinks she's invincible , she's mad she got caught she probably thrived everyday from abusing her kids. What a Monster 💀
Scary and creepy. Those poor kids. Imagine having that for a mother. Gross.
there are so many of her, out there. this is only on the news because they were rich.
@@alanmalcheski8882 yes, and so many out there that are worse. Awful.
Shes literally a goddess
Shes cold and unloving...@helicoptergunship
@@FilthyMcNasty69 i could change her...
She was probably just thinking everybody is distorted
In Jodi's interview she said to the detectives ''you seem like very nice people''. I doubt she actually thinks anybody is nice.
Ms. Frankie was a tough mother 😂
What. A. Psycho.
I can’t imagine the feeling she may have been giving off by just staring and blinking like that.
It boggles my mind that she has the nerve to act put out and annoyed.
Yes how entirely annoying it must be to get arrested for having your kids tortured. But she's "really sorry" now. Yeah, not.
She also called them being hospitalized “ so weird, not necessary “. She’s delusional
I forgot my name 😕
It doesn't matter how sorry she is because it is too late for her to be sorry for anything. There is no forgiveness for her from the justice system. She partied hard, and now the bill is due and she must pay. Besides, it is certain that her children never want to see her again.
staying silent for the 1st time ever
and everyone like her saying how smart that is... Ok thanks for letting us know how you'd do it, if/when you do.
Yep absolutely.
Why are they allowing a woman suspected of severe child abuse to wander around the house and talk on the phone? Special treatment much?
Exactly, my thoughts!
Opportunity to self incriminate.
They were waiting on Detective. She wasn't going anywhere. Her reaction when other Officers went to the outside downstairs entrance...you could see panic in her face for a few seconds.
When you live in a community where you pay 100k a year in property taxes I'm pretty sure you'll be treated differently also. Cops know you have lawyer money. Cops don't want to make any mistakes with someone that has 250k-500k for lawyer money.
Wealth, status, and gender.
The parole board should look at this video when deciding on whether or not she should be released. This woman does not care about anyone but herself. Self preservation, no empathy, no emotion pure narcissist.
Lawyers should also show this to their clients on how not to incriminate yourself whilst under investigation.
A person’s right to remain silent is not an admission of guilt, and should not be used against them. Her heinous crimes clearly speak for themselves.
Talk 😮 say something 😮 are you hungry ? 😂 yea ! 😂
The police offering Ruby "water and snacks" is far more generosity than her own children ever received...
...and the Judge cut this woman some slack, smh. To me she's simply a monster, nothing more, nothing less.
LDS stick together.
It's a cult after all.@@samstevens7888
Yes, they are a cult.
The judge did not. Utah has indeterminate sentencing so she must serve a minimum of 4 years and up to a maximum of 30 years.
@@Haarschmuckfachgeschafttadpole well aware of this. Doesn't mean what I said wasn't wrong though. LDS sticks together. Jodi should never of been in the position of power she had. It was known in the "church" what she had done in the past and the behaviour she exhibited with her clients. The church covered for her like they do all of their abusers, until the mass media find out. Then they just hide behind the silence of the church.
Her eyes and the lethargic blinking tells me she short circuited somewhere in life..
right!!!!! its freaky, its almost like shes possessed
@@livi.alexandraaashe is!
Possible she was having some afternoon wine.
Christian fundamentalism *cough, cough*
Something in your throat??@@gandalf8216
Is it possible to hate the way someone blinks because she is ABSOLUTELY communicating with her blinks the way she did in court. She is SUCH a manipulative, horrid person.
The patience of these officers. I could never
the attitude of someone who thinks they did no wrong but knows they did everything that is claimed.
she must think that way because she actually thinks it's normal. Which means that's either the way she grew up or the way other adults around her treat kids, or both.
THIS‼️
She’s the ultimate Karen
I hate the use of that word but if Karen was in the dictionary, Rubys face would be right there next to it.
@@oceancat0450facts
The most silent Karen every seen 😂
@@elizabethoneill9572Rubi is the psychopath, Karen is the sociopath.
@@sighfly2928you don’t seem to know the meaning of any of those words now they make no sense using them like this as you please
What makes this even worse is that she definitely was this way towards her kids if they “disappointed” her. Growing up with a parent who will treat you like an enemy whenever you don’t please them will mess any child up. Those kids must’ve felt so alone😢.
my dad bought me a guitar... but I NEVER became a famous musician. I'm not Chuck Norris either. He wasted so much money on me. You just don't understand. Lol
That’s how we turn into people pleasers. We are conditioned since birth to serve others at the expense of ourselves. I’be got no empathy for her but I will just say- her parents really did a number on her. I get that she’s a narcissists but I don’t resonate with being abused then growing up to think it was fine and then doing that to your own kids. My dad told me stories about the insane punishments my grandma inflicted on him, and then he started doing them to me.
*_Wow!! The nerve.. NEVER let her near those children EVER again!!_*
"We also have snacks, if you need anything to EAT"
Damn.
She doesn’t deserve to eat because she wouldn’t let her kid’s eat.
Words I bet her kids would have loved to hear 😢
Her defiance, dead stare & slight smirk…very disturbing to see.
We have snacks but we starve the kids! What a hosebag
@@sidcymraegYes.
No picture or decor in either woman’s home
They live on phones these days
Just curious. Why is that weird? I only have one painting on the wall in my house. I just don’t really care about wall hangings and not much decor other than books. I do have several aquariums tho but those arent really decor since fish are pets and plants. (Or live coral for my marine reef tank).
@@aerynstormcrowit’s weird because they have children and there’s zero sign of it
@@aerynstormcrowalso i think aquariums count as decor haha such colorful and pretty pets
Its weird cause she abused her children!!!
She is receiving a lot more kindness and respect than she provided her children.
Ultimate control … silence speaks volumes and is the hallmark with Narcissism. Her eyes are empty with emotion…
She didn’t speak because she KNEW she was in serious trouble.
Her lawyer has asked her not to speak.
After reading Ruby's journal and knowing all of the horrific things she did to her own children, her family sickens me. But I have a feeling that in that family, it's always been all about Ruby all of the time. And shame on the DA for saying he'd be okay with four years for her after what I just read. Thirty years isn't enough time.
Where do you read this?
@@nothinwatever St. George News in Utah. It made my stomach churn and I don't even have kids.
@@nothinwatever The St. George News in Utah. Read only if you have a strong stomach. Besides the physical torture, Ruby actually put her little girl in a dog bath and shaved her head so her hair "wouldn't distract her." Just like Jodi did to her niece. What monsters.
It’s jus like Lori vallows family …they saw Lori as this pristine positive person
She stays silent, but also recorded all her crimes in her journal. It makes it easy.
Yeah, it’s not weird at all that she’s just staring and blinking instead of simply saying, I reserve my right to be silent. She did that blinking thing during her plea--this woman is not right in the head, obviously. She’s a monster.
Yeah that part was so weird. Like just say you dont want to talk or a simple "no" when they ask if you want to talk. That was so crazy
I didn't realize that Ruby and Jodi were both home when R escaped!! Sweet R you are so brave!
Ruby wasn't.
Jodi must have contacted her when she found out that R escaped. Jodi knew that the game is up. Jodi was already calling her lawyer
Maybe that alarm was her reminder to set up a new punishment for the kids…
She's right to remain silent but she has to say she is INVOKING her right to remain silent. Gotta say those magic words.
How is it possible that the father will raise those children? He's equally as culpable?!
Where was he for the last year?? The "she wouldn't let me see them" excuse is just a cop-out.
Last I knew he doesn't have custody of any of them.
He didn't inflict severe physical abuse on them. Just wasn't there in their life when the kids needed him. Not quite the same.
@@-greentoadUm, pretty much the same though. Thanks for that ignorant opinion…. They have 2 parents that should be looking out for their well being at ALL TIMES
@@bthalsey5943 your welcome
😂😁 🤪 Have a great day if that is possible.
She's trying to be so tough by giving them the silent treatment.....
She still thinks she's in control by staying silent. It's the only thing left she has to control
She’s not feeling remorse here, she’s irritated that she feels her day has been interrupted.
I was so fooled by her emotional court appearance so full of compassion and understanding the woman was two-faced
Welcome to narcissism. Never ever ever trust someone who was sadistic and now is magically humble. That’s NOT even possible. Who are sadists? …Narcissists and psych0paths. Those people do NOT change and certainly if they do (it’s insanely rare), it happens over at least a decade in intensive therapy. But what they’re known for is their ability to manipulate. And THAT is why we should always be skeptical of anyone who flips from evil to saint. It’s just not a thing.
I did not believe a word of it. This cult leader was able to de-program herself after a few month in jail? I think if she got out , she would go after those kids
She's so baffled as to why she is being treated like she treated her own kids... Enjoy prison Jodi
She is Ruby!
The cops are treating her WAY better than she treated her kids.
How did 65 ppl like your comment that uses the wrong name? 😂
Ruby, not Jodi
She couldn't just say "lawyer", huh?
She didn’t believe these police officers were deemed ‘worthy’ of a response from her.
@@TiffTheTyrant she's such an insufferable person
@@TiffTheTyrantthis is the 100% correct response. She’s THAT grandiose.
She did.
@@helicoptergunship she did after death staring them for 3 minutes, I’ve seen murderers behave more normally than her when exercising their right to remain silent
It's crazy to me how they treat higher profile criminals more gently compared to the average, when they usually and often cause more significant damage
higher profile criminal means highers profile case, which means so much more to lose if they fumble it by screwing up the investigation...
if they messed this up they would be putting all those children back into the womens custody as well as back into immediate danger.
Also, your comparing departments with different codes and jurisdictions.
The average drunk doesn't need to be interrogated. She does, and she is more likely to accidentally say something incriminating if she thinks that the officers will be sympathetic
@@peacedog87 They turned up the heat on him because he was already in the lobster pot (willingly talking in the police station).
If they had gotten Jodi to talk without asking for a lawyer, they would have eventually put her through something similar
They’re not being nice to her because she’s “high profile” (just a UA-camr anyway)… they’re being nice to her because it’s a tactic they use to encourage people to talk.
Absolutely!
Super nice to see and hear a polite, respectful and calm Officer.
Respect.
What the heck is she doing in the interview room? Silence and blank stares? Super sketch
psychopath
You DO have the right to remain silent, but she has severe psychotic behaviors going on
Well, she's exercising her Right to remain silent. Hope she rots in prison but the number of comments here like you're indicate just how little education most have on their own rights.
I think she's just mentally f'd in the head, that's why she was quiet the entire time.
Its very creepy
She said in court she thought the police were bad people so she’s holding onto that i guess - strange woman
Clearly her view of what constitutes as a bad person is extremely warped
Well, they are bad, but not for the reasons she thinks.
She’s behaving as though getting arrested is a giant inconvenience, what a piece of work.
Is that the gravel road you made your babies walk on barefooted? Is that the cactus you made your little daughter jump into? Looks hot outside. Is that where you made your babies stand for days with no water???
Where are the rest of the kids? Where are the personal items in the house? Weird ish!
Her and Jodi’s house decorations are sooo weird to me. Like a hotel almost. Just not personal at all
This house was rented and used ad an place for recording videos.
@@lizg833….yeah, both houses were like that. Jodi said something about putting her stuff in storage b4 Russell even escaped.
@@viconicholThat a lie. Not sure where you get your information from, but that was Jodi’s house in Ivins, Utah that she recently put up for sale for $5.3 MIL. It’s not rented for videos. These aren’t teenage Tiktokers.
J and A where at pams house ... cleaning ready for pams guests that where due x
Is there any room in that house that does not have a large screen TV? Oh yeah, the jail cell where they kept the children.
It's amazing how these women both knew they were in trouble right away.
I've been in motel rooms with more personality than the inside of that house. It's a bunker. The cop seems cozy in comparison!
She's not "cOmF-oRTaBLe" lol
Well guilty or not guilty - it’s always smart to wait for a lawyer. I have no sympathy for her, but I can’t knock her for that.
Right but it's the way she asked for a lawyer lol.. she's smug and dying for control. Typical narcissist
no so try knocking her for something else maybe? Are you saying that the main take away from this story is that it's smart to be like her, or...?
Yeah but an interrogation video would’ve been just the ticket.
@@alanmalcheski8882what? What are you even trying to say? 😂
That s awesome that the child was able to escape and bring this narcissist to justice!
I find it humorous that Ruby wouldn’t talk to the officers but put her and her children’s entire lives on You Tube….what a joke. However, she is really smart to just say “Lawyer, lawyer, lawyer”.
Is that what her channel was about? Her children?
@@MS-br3ir I never watched it but I understand that she recorded her daily life with her 6 children and her husband and specifically how they disciplined the children. Apparently she posted some videos that caused YT viewers to complain about her treatment of the children in comments which I understand reduced her YT income (she had millions of viewers). After this happened, she apparently sought out Hildebrandt to help. They then started using Ruby’s YT channel to air videos together under Jodi Hildebrandt’s Connections brand. Ruby ultimately let Jodi take over her life and the lives of her children and banished Ruby’s husband from the house. At the time of their arrest, the husband apparently hadn’t seen any of his 6 children for over a year. I feel for the kids, especially the two children brutalized by Jodi and Ruby. Reprehensible.
@snafu6127 thank you for the information.
I think she's trying to communicate with them telepathically like how the devil communicates with her...Ok Ruby, Just blink once if your psychotic and twice if your the devil himself...👹
Isn't this exactly how every criminal defense lawyer WANTS you to behave while being arrested and interrogated?
She's worse than Jodi. She's the mom who should be protecting her kids, not torturing and starving them. 😢
If we compare the two during and after arrest I’m inclined to agree!! She’s far more controlling than Jodi who was really scared and afraid to look like she wasn’t helping the investigation. Ruby here just don’t give a F!
She looks like she is on some kind of drugs when they are questioning her.
Yeah her state creeps me out
She probably treats the Starbucks staff the same way if one grain of the chocolate dusting on top of her vegan latte is out of place.
I always thought of her as a pumpkin spice Mafia type
No coffee for her, she’s Mormon 😂
She's a Mormon. She doesn't go to a sinful place like Starbucks.
Huh? This monster definitely doesn't send any vegan vibes out! Why would a woman who imprisons, starves, hog ties and waterboards her own children care about animals? Ruby would yell insults at the Starbucks people if they gave her a vegan latte - she'd think compassion is DISTORTION.
She's Mormon so no coffee for her. If she did go to a Starbucks she'd get a vanilla Frappuccino.
This woman is "unhinged" She needs to be in Prison forever or she will come after kids.
Shes gorgeous
@@helicoptergunshipno
@@jenninscho1980 yes
That’s the most depressing, coldest house I have ever seen
Shocked how silent and disconnected she seems
It’s a power move
I love how you are presenting these to us, thank you.
In her first call from the jail, she was asking if they were in the news. She never asked about the kids.
*you know you in trouble when you walk out and 10+ cop car is waiting for you outside with their captain.* 😂
the fact that these two psychopaths found each other is so unfortunate. What an unimaginable nightmare they created together
This is what I have been waiting for
The judge ordered EVERYTHING in this case to be released today so we have a lot the way !
Why is that house so empty and devoid of anythig personal? It looks like a hotel or something.
She's PSYCHO! I never realized things were that bad!
She's not so smug now, as a convicted child abuser.
She likes blinking. Is it Morse code?
it's a stress response.
Narcissists blink like crazy when they feel their superiority isn't respected.
What an inconvenience for her!
I hope this monster never gets out of prison
Even the house decor shows there's no love in the home 😢
The first footage I saw on this woman, was her pathetic groveling during her sentencing, so to see her act like this now is beyond annoying I’ve never seen such entitlement what a monster
Left her two youngest with that..woman, who wasn't even a relative, and just went on with life? 🤔 What an arrogant, holier than thou, silence.
She has every right to lawyer up, but her bearing, as if she's a POW, is quite telling really.
Sick.
Her smug attitude shows she refuses to recognize authority.
They sure are gentle with this rich lady found guilty of monstrous crimes. You ever see how they treat your average person charged with theft?