@@DnD_Dailysorry for re-open the topic almost a year later, but you can't cast every thing. The spell with both S and M component can't be casted with both hand full. The focus replaces the M or the S components.
@@killer44339 Is that really like that? I just double checked the spellcasting as decribed in D&D Beyond and I got this: A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components. I get it that the focus replaces material components but the same hand used to hold it can be used for S components. am i missing something?
If you are a variant human you can start with pole arm master for a bonus action attack to help make up for gaining your second attack later, and at later levels that would give you another attack you could smite with
I've created a Spartan commander by mixing fighter Battlemaster and rogue Mastermind. His main idea is to attack out of turn with Polearm master and riposte. With cunning action he can attack then disengage. With the master of tactics you can use your bonus action to give a friend the help action
My Bardadin is a samurai poet. Variant Human Dual Wielder take the defensive fighting style from the Paladin then take the two weapon fighting fighting style from the College of Swords then reflavor everything as Japanese
To get around the spellcasting focus thing I would get one of those harmonicas you can wear around your neck so when I one shot the BBEG I can bust out a real harmonica at the table and play Piano Man as my DM rethinks his life choices
If you go Paladin 5/bard 6 and go with the college of lore and oath of conquest, by level 11 you can be an extra attack smite machine Paladin with spirit guardians and spiritual weapon up while making your bard spell list almost completely out of combat spells to bring incredible utility outside of battle and insane damage during combats
How about slapping in a 1-level dip in Hexblade somewhere after Paladin 2 / Bard 3 or Bard 6? This lets you be SAD in Charisma for your melee attacks and Bard spellcasting, lets you cast Booming Blade / Green Flame Blade, and adds your proficiency bonus to your damage rolls to 1 target per short rest, which scales nicely with the Blade cantrips and/or the Smite attacks.
One thing I did to let me use a spell casting focus with no hands was to use a whistle as my spell casting focus. So, I am just blowing on this whistle whilst beating some poor bandit over the head.
2 things on my mind. Something that wasn't mentioned is sword bard can add his bardic dice on top of smite. It might be self evident, but it's a selling point. Second, depending on party composition, I would consider grabbing order cleric 1 after getting bard6(extra attack), since we're not necessarily trying to get higher level spells, it doesn't affect our slots.
I'm rocking a Redemption Paladin/Eloquence Bard multiclass. I'm the face and the tank of the group, and it's a glorious combo. At level 9 without max charisma, I can roll a persuasion check of 27 as the LOWEST possible roll. Emissary of Peace + Silver Tongue + expertise in Persuasion is a ridiculous combo.
I'm playing a College of Whispers Bard and Oath of Conquest Paladin multiclass. Lots of burst damage and I have so many fear effect options. He's effectively an 80's slasher rewritten as a folk hero.
Bard is actually pretty weak on Battlefield Control spells, though (unless you consider Hypnotic Pattern battlefield control; personally, I think of it more as a mass debuff). But other than that one weakness, you're absolutely right. 😉
If you go Paladin 6 (for Aura of Protection) and lorebard (as much as possible) you get a true Jack of All Trades. Not as overwhelmingly fantastic on the offensive in combat as taking levels in Swords bard (you don't get flourishes and the extra fighting style and can't use your weapon as your focus) but you get more spells, more skills and more survivability. If you go fo rOath of Vengeance you also get Armour of Agathys and Spiritual Weapon and you'll be a monster. :D
@@morganpetros9635 by "battlefield" you mean the ground? They have plant growth for example(can't remember atm any other), but as a creature/s Control caster Bards can do a lot: faery fire, bane, tasha's laugh, suggestion, silence, plant growt, slow, psichic lance, polymorph, etc etc...these are just examples till level 4th, there's a lot more(charms, illusions with a creative DM...), bards are a big pain in the ass for the dm's monster my friend. :)
I just realized that blade flourishes give a movement bump after attacking. I'm really thinking about a hit-and-run build with a gem dragonborn Paladin 2 / Swords bard. Taking Shield of faith and going sword and board in heavy armor with defense fighting style, that's a baseline AC of 21 (chainmail) -23 (full plate mail). Then with Defensive flourish, that AC is between 22 and 29. I imagine most enemies would miss their opportunity attack at that kind of AC, so now they don't have a reaction. Find a way to slap on Booming Blade, mix in smites, and you're a freight train on the ground and a B1 Bomber with Gem Flight. Neat!
Once Silvery Barbs was introduced it becme the must have spell for every bard. Any time there is a must have spell, I randomly give it to my baddies. You have never seen a table erupt in complete distain for their DM until you see a baddie pull out silvery barbs after a Paladin crits on a smite.
Oathbreaker 7 / College of Spirits 13 Use Oathbreaker channel divinity to snag a Wraith at level 5, butcher 7 creatures for it to rise as Specters under the Wraiths control then have your Wraithy boy hide inside you damage free and command your army of ghosts while smiting away and having the fun flavor of Spirts bard. Also the Oathbreaker Aura of Hate I think would apply to the specters
New subscriber here. I love looking at these, not old by any means but not in the last 3 month builds, and applying the new playtest for OneDnd to them. It really livens up the games.
Have the same built planned out, but with 2 lvls of Hexblade on top to get reliable dmg without wasting spellslots, and even more important focussing on only Charisma. plus other neat little things like Shield spell and simply seeing magic.
I went to 6th level Paladin to not sleep on all those lovely cha bonus to all my saves. But I do see your point about early smite abilities. Oh and also I went Lore Bard to get early access to Magical secrets.
To perform somatic components you could hold your weapon with the shield hand, it may not be raw but it's not unreasonable irl, that's how I do it with my bard/fighter
On reconsideration, there are a couple of fairly crippling weaknesses to this build. First, its saves are going to suck dead weasels. It's only proficient in CHA and WIS, and doesn't have the stat points to build WIS up to anything approaching a reasonable bonus ... AND we're leaving the class long before we get to add our CHA bonus to all our saves. More importantly, though, is that paladin is just as MAD as monk ... ang you've given us a build with only four ASIs, two of which you suggest using on feats. A paladin MUST start with a high STR, and eventually max it out, or it's going to be a subpar melee combatant. It can *KINDA* get away with an only-okay CHA if it never plans to use a spell with an attack roll or save, but adding bard to the mix quashes that tactic ... especially since you apparently want the character able to cast "fight-winning" spells. So we need to eventually max out CHA as well. I wonder if taking a single level in Hexblade isn't the answer? Granted, you wouldn't get your first ASI until 7th level, wouldn't get level 9 spells until 20th and would NEVER get your final Magical Secrets (ouch, that one hurts), but even though you'd still need to start out with a 15 STR to effectively wear plate armor, you wouldn't ever need to increase it because you'd only be *DEPENDENT* on CHA.
Yes, but you'd still only have two ASIs available for actual ability score increases. This would mean you'd never get to max out either your weapon attacks or your spell attacks/DCs ... unless you take that single Hexblade level.
Well I just saw this video. Apparently we are thinking similar things. You may remember my Turtle build on the Battle Bard video. You said how would I build this Bardadin? Basically the same thing as that build. The thing I like about going Turtle Hexblade is the ability to dump both Strength and Dexterity. If you go point buy or whatever you can focus strongly on Constitution and Charisma. Then round up your stats so you aren't really lacking in any area. Like as a human Bard Paladin you need Strength, Constitution, and Charisma. Sometimes you may need to value Dexterity also since it can be hard to buy that expensive Fullplate to max out your AC. What do you do before you can buy/find that armor? So yeah. Shelled Hexbardadin is the way to go. Just diving a little deeper into this. If you went point buy and Used Tasha's rules you could start with STR 13 DEX 10 CON 16 (14+2) INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 16 (15+1) That is very well balanced.
I've been thinking about a build like this for a few weeks now. A fun tidbit that I noticed is that Hexblade gets access to a Paladin Smite Spell at almost every spell level, with full caster progression. So 3 levels of Hexblade gives you Shield, Wrathful Smite, Branding Smite, and the usual Hexblade shenaniganry. Slap this onto either a paladin or a bard and go to town with smites all day!
I *REALLY* like this idea, but if I'm going to go Polearm Master I would really much rather dump the shield 🛡️ and use halberd, glaive ... or pike if I want to retain the flavor of the Greek hoplite. Not only do these weapons do greater damage and have Reach, but they also negate the "verbal or noncombat only" spellcasting limitation you've placed on the build. I also love 💕 this build as a military COMMANDER concept, with the Persuasion and Intimidation skills and maybe eventually the Inspiring Leader feat 😈
Actually, screw that. Five minutes of basic arithmetic tells me the average damage of Spear + Shield + Dueling fighting style gives you *average* damage equal to the d10 weapons for your Attack action, and BETTER damage with your bonus action attack. It would seem that if you want to be *REALLY* effective with a polearm build, you need GWM ... which probably means dipping barbarian for Reckless Attack and just relying on paladin for spell slots ... Hmmm ... barbarian 4/paladin X, maybe ...? 😉😈
I like this build, but my DM would ding me on the Polearm Mastery. A spear is a versatile, simple weapon. But the feat says longspear, which has the two handed property. He might let me slide with a quarterstaff comparison.
"When you take the Attack action and attack with only a glaive, halberd, quarterstaff, or spear, you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon" -the pike is also an option for the reaction part of the feat
College of Whispers gives a bunch more d6s with Psychic Blades, which is expended on a hit so like smite you already know if you have a crit. Maybe a level or 3 or Hexblade for curse and to not need more than 13 strength. If 3 levels, pact of the chain for advantage on your first attack from familiar, or pact of the blade to be able to take Great Weapon Master. Warlock also gets Armor of Agathys. Shadar Kai can get Elven Accuracy and comes with teleport and resistance (which is great with Agathys) after the teleport. Could consider Oath of Vengeance to 3rd level, or Oathbreaker Paladin to 7th. Vow of Emnity and Aura of Hate both do great things and 6th level in Paladin gets your Cha to saving throws for you and close by allies. You can tweak these to make an amazing smiting crit fisher, passible tank, and fair support character. Personally I'd go Shadar Kai Hexblade 3 with pact of Chain for advantage on 1st attack, Oathbreaker 7 for Cha to dmg and saves, and Whispers Bard 10 for 5d6 Psychic Blades. Cap Cha and pick up elven accuracy. You'd be a 14th level caster with multi attack, use your 4th level spells for 5d8 smites, your 6th level for Armor of Agathys with 30 hp/dmg, and your 7th for simulacrum with magical secrets (force cage is 2nd choice)
In my home table, I leave the Multiclass rules in the DMG. Mainly because older editions always made it a pain for players trying to gain levels. Yeah, I could house-rule the progression, but I look at history, where people apprenticed to something, and eventually became Artisans and Masters or professional soldiers. You didn't often have the freedom (or money) to just cross-educate yourself in the manner offered by the multiclassing system.
I believe you can also look at it from a design vs thematic perspective. The 5e multiclassing design doesn't make much thematic sense, but you can imbue it despite the shortcomings. If you look at parallel systems, like PF2E, they don't allow multi-classing, but you have so much more variety within any given class. Unfortunately, without multiclassing, 5e doesn't offer you any option to play thematically nuanced characters with a good mechanical foundation. How are you supposed to play a Skald? Or a priest that's tricked into a pact with an unholy creature. Or a divine warrior that doesn't believe in using anything but his fists to deliver divine justice. What other systems allow through customization through out-of-class specific skills and feats, 5e can only do so through the currently designed multiclassing system. And it shouldn't be looked down upon for that. In the end, we all want to play a fantasy character, and if the mechanics are wonky but kinda allow it, shoot for the stars.
Paladin12/Lore Bard6/Fighter2. Is also pretty nuts, You still get Magical Secrets, all Paladin Spells, as well as Improved Divine Smite, and Aura of Protection. My favorite way to do it, is having your secrets be Haste and Destructive Wave. Like, just imagine, this really big and heavily armored guy, zoom across the battle field like the flash, and beginning a rapid divine assault on you on you. And with 2 fighter you get second wind. This build is hard to even damage, and has 5 attacks. That with a normal longsword, deals 2d8+smite damage+damage bonus across 3-5 hits.
I'd be tempted with a 1 level dip in hex blade warlock. Point buy variant human can give you str 14+1, dex 10, con 14, int 8, wis 10, char 15+1. But I like the idea of having stealth so maybe: str 13, dex 13+1, con 13, int 8, wis 11, char 15+1, for AC18 with breastplate, dex and shield). Variant human gives you polearm master at level 1. With duelling at pally 2, you get two attacks, with +2 to damage from duelling and +3 from charisma for both attacks. (Plus smites when you want to nova) Your AC won't be sky high, but you have the shield spell as an option. Later, I'd also be tempted with Warlock 2 to get the invocation to get advantage on concentration checks. If I later go resilient Con it'd be very hard for mobs to drop my concentration spells. If I later wanted GWM, I could go level 3 warlock for pact of the blade to allow me to use charisma with two-handed heavy weapons.
I have the best DM in the world. Im a Slightly modified paladin of the crown with a cool ass weapon that grows with me and Has a lot of cool abilities. I'm at 6 and have been toying wit the idea of a Multiclass. Another player suggested Bard and DM suggested College of Swords but since I had 6 levels in Paladin I didn't want to. Then DM allowed changing Extra Attack for Additional Magical Secrets and these changes have me hyped for when I start leveling in Bard. DM if you ever see this, you are the best.
@@DnD_Daily They are amazing. I started as their DM and then they took over so I could play once in a while but I think the student has outdone the Teacher.
Kobold, take the Sorcerer cantrip option for BB or GFB. Then go Whispers Bard instead of Swords, for the Whisper Smite. After 5 in Bard, grab 1 in Hexblade for obvious reasons, and 2 in Paladin for Divine Smite. Now you're SAD, with even more smites, and your Whisper Smites will continue to go up in power better than Flourishes would.
I was thinking hexblade dip for shield spell and they get a smite. Using Charisma for weapon attacks is great since we can dump str and be far less MAD But paladin heavy armor means we don't need a super high Dex for AC and paladin in general in a better dip for flavor and RP
Am i missing something? Paladins get their subclass at level 3 so you won't have the glory stuff in the build, also if you start out as a paladin you get everything you need in terms of equipment (though starting as a bard might be better.)
Good question as I wasn’t clear. I adopted the oaths and flavor of the oath of glory paladin without actually taking it. The build does start out as paladin, if you start out as bard we don’t get heavy armor which we need because we’re dumping dex to be able to multi class with paladin.
About to make this build but starting with the Hexblade dip. I'll be rolling with a staff instead of a spear. Taking Paladin levels at lvl 8 and 9 to turn on the smite machine. Maybe its more efficient to take those paladin levels after level 3 bard? So smiting at lvl 6 instead of that extra attack. Slots would be 4/3 with a short rest lvl 1 slot.
Nothing says you can't. EK can get all the abjuration goodness but it is severely lacking on it's own for other kinds of spells. Maybe combined with Artificer to make your equipment magical or Wizard since EK is an Intelligence caster. Hoplite is just a category of weapons and tactics. Anyone proficient with martial weapons and medium armor could be one, I guess, to varying degrees.
@@ericpeterson8732 if I had to choose a class to MC it would be War Magic, maybe 2- 5 levels for Haste. But EK has a lot of baked in features that I like
The big problem bardadin has that sorcadin or hexadin doesn't is that it takes 8 levels to get online. You are doing fine levels 1-4, but 5-7 you lag because of the tier2 power spike. Booming blade is often what can bridge the gap for paladin 2 caster X. Meanwhile, if you go paladin 6 caster X, you are a paladin which this early especially is an amazing class. Paladin 2 bard X has neither. That said, high elf or CL/vHuman magic initiate can soften the blow significantly if you go paladin 2 bard X.
I could have a very long discussion on this topic but I'll keep it brief. Going Aura of protection then multiclassing out is perfectly viable. Its just a completely different build. You would want to choose a different bard subclass or even better go Divine soul sorcerer. You don't need the bards multiattack afterall. The 1 level dip in hexblade is overrated. It's far more costly and gives far less in return than you would think once you get into the weeds of it (for bardadins and sorcadins specifically. Its perfectly viable for a palylock.) The strength of this build is it's near a full caster in strength and near a full martial in strength. We delay our spell slot progression by 1 level. A single level. To get heavy armor and smites. When compared to the build your suggesting this build is a massively more powerful spellcaster. To put it in perspective at 8th level (1 warlock, 6 paladin, 1 either bard or sorc) your highest level spell slot is level 2. The same level with this build we have 4th level spells. Thats huge. Every other build I've mentioned here could not be considered a full caster while this build can... A full caster with heavy armor and smites that can flatten enemies. This divide gets bigger when magical secrets comes online and heaven forbid we compare them at 20th level. Turns out wish and prismatic wall are real damn good. All this being said I think your build suggestion is going to be stronger between levels 3 and 8.
@@DnD_Daily Amazing break down! After seeing this build few months ago I really want to try it, but im torn because aura of protection is such a good feature. But as you've mentioned it having a 4th level or even 3rd spells at that point is absolutely amazing. I'm excited to try this out in our Descent into Avernus campaign.
@@DnD_Daily also i suggest taking double bladed scimitar to get that bonus action attack to off set the lack of extra attack. You are 3 levels behind from a normal extra attack, and with your of plan taking PAM it would be at 6th level, that too far away. After taking PAM at bard 4 you can drop the double bladed scimitar and live your spear and shield dream.
Thanks! The main cost of going fighter 2 is we delay our spell advancement by two levels and our extra attack. That’s a pretty high cost for getting a fighting style, action surge, and second wind. I personally wouldn’t go that route but I think your character could still be quite good. Especially if you wait to take fighter until after you get paladin 2 and bard 6.
About the only change I'd consider a worthwhile investment would be trading your potential final Magical Secrets for the infamous single level Hexblade dip. Get a couple more spells, a 1st level shit that returns on a Short Rest, and of course the ability to use your Charisma for your spells *and* your weapon.
why not just take war cast Source: Player's Handbook Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one spell You have practiced casting spells in the midst of combat, learning techniques that grant you the following benefits: You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage. You can perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons or a shield in one or both hands. When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature. bards may use musical instruments for spells, they dont have to, which allows them to use a component pouch if they find one
So my thinking at the time was that war caster covers somatic but not material components. We don’t have a hand free with a shield and spear to use material components. What I’ve since learned though, thanks to a viewer, is that swords bards allow us to use our sword as our material component. This means war caster is unnecessary. We can cast all bard spells while holding a shield and spear. Great question!
@@DnD_Daily if the spell has a material component it can be cast but if it has a somatic component and no material component you need a free hand , which means if you have war caster you can cast spells with verbal, somatic and material all with a weapon and a shield with the feat
“Material (M) Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell. If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access these components, but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.” The exception is holy symbols. They just have to be visible on your person or shield. I interpret all this to say that you still need a free hand to use material components while you have the warcaster feat.
@@DnD_Daily There are two ways around that, though. First, if the spell has material components that aren’t consumed by the spell and don’t have a gold cost, can’t you just use your Swords Bard ability to use your spear as a magical focus to do the material components, since an arcane focus can be used that way normally? Second, be a Thri-Kreen. Spear in one main hand, shield in the other main hand, and play the flute with your mouth and one or both secondary hands. Or a set of small drums with your secondary hands. Or any number of other small instruments.
Bashing your spear in rhythm against your shield could count as an instrument. I'd allow it as a DM, especially if the shield is designed to be more acoustic than a regular shield.
Tl;dr: its more nuanced than just "multiclass out of a half caster at an even level" Generally, yes, paladins are better off stopping at an even level (6) for multiclassing. But there are exceptions. Many builds go 7 levels for the subclass's abilitt. I generally dont see the value in it, but if building around, say, a conquest paladin's ability to drop enemies speed to 0 if theyre afraid and w/n 10', i can understand An example from a character ive actually played, albeit ranger, is my gloomstalker 5/wildfire druid 5. I get extra attack and 3rd level spells (and a 4th level slot). If i had gone ranger 6 druid 4, i wouldnt have 3rd level spells, though i would have the same number of slots. In his case, having higher level spells is more important since the slots arent merely for smiting. And, should this character make it to 20th level, if i went 6/14, id have 9th level slots, but only 7th level spells. By going 5/15, i still have my 9th level slots, but i now also have 8th level spells. With paladin, though, the aura of protection is far too strong of an ability to forgo if youre already committing to 5 levels for extra attack. So 6/14 makes great sense there.
Paladin 2/ (lmao) 🌙 Druid 18 And just hum "teddy bear picnic" Or watch the short of the same name from Crypt TV Lol funny that that video of TBP inspired a mtg deck of mine.
I rule it so that sor or bard spellslots can't be used for smites though. Imo DIVINE smite has to use DIVINE spellslots to work. So only Cleric/Paladin multiclass should allow you to do this in my book.
Jeremy Crawford @JeremyECrawford Replying to @J_McGrody @J_McGrody As with most bonus actions, you choose the timing, so the Shield Master shove can come before or after the Attack action.
Depends what level. Sorc admin doesn’t leave paladin until 6 while this build leaves at 2. So for tiers 1 and 2 this build wins on the weight of smites cast alone. Tiers 3 and 4 though metamagic catches up and takes the edge.
Most GMs are gonna let you build a drum into your shield, huh? Sorry, but, nooope. Personally, I might eventually give you a magic shield that functions that way, maybe even give it some extra features to play off of the flavor, but at the outset? No way. Choices have consequences and if you want the benefits of a Paladin multiclass, you’re gonna have to deal with the downsides too. The main problem with allowing this is just that it’s not super fair to the other people in the party. If you’re allowing this party member to do something they shouldn’t be able to, why shouldn’t that apply to everyone? Making it magic item fixes that problem to a degree, because the player will probably have put the time in by that point and it won’t feel like you’re just immediately nullifying the downside to the multiclassing.
So.... when do you take level 3 paladin for the Oath of Glory? Lol Paladins dont get the subclass until 3 so if you only take 2 levels of paladin, youll never have a paladin subclass
Hey Sage, swords bard can use simple or martial weapon a spell focus at level 3.....fun build
🤯 mind blown! Can’t believe I missed that.
That significantly changes the build as you can take whatever spells you want past level 5.
Thanks mate!
@@DnD_Daily what would you change?
@@DnD_Dailysorry for re-open the topic almost a year later, but you can't cast every thing. The spell with both S and M component can't be casted with both hand full. The focus replaces the M or the S components.
@@killer44339 Is that really like that? I just double checked the spellcasting as decribed in D&D Beyond and I got this: A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components. I get it that the focus replaces material components but the same hand used to hold it can be used for S components. am i missing something?
@@leosakata1165 you are correct.
Turn your sword into a flute like the Green Ranger.
I think anyone could argue that one's voice is an instrument.
WotC says otherwise
If you are a variant human you can start with pole arm master for a bonus action attack to help make up for gaining your second attack later, and at later levels that would give you another attack you could smite with
I've created a Spartan commander by mixing fighter Battlemaster and rogue Mastermind. His main idea is to attack out of turn with Polearm master and riposte. With cunning action he can attack then disengage. With the master of tactics you can use your bonus action to give a friend the help action
My Bardadin is a samurai poet. Variant Human Dual Wielder take the defensive fighting style from the Paladin then take the two weapon fighting fighting style from the College of Swords then reflavor everything as Japanese
I like that a lot!
To get around the spellcasting focus thing I would get one of those harmonicas you can wear around your neck so when I one shot the BBEG I can bust out a real harmonica at the table and play Piano Man as my DM rethinks his life choices
If you go Paladin 5/bard 6 and go with the college of lore and oath of conquest, by level 11 you can be an extra attack smite machine Paladin with spirit guardians and spiritual weapon up while making your bard spell list almost completely out of combat spells to bring incredible utility outside of battle and insane damage during combats
How about slapping in a 1-level dip in Hexblade somewhere after Paladin 2 / Bard 3 or Bard 6? This lets you be SAD in Charisma for your melee attacks and Bard spellcasting, lets you cast Booming Blade / Green Flame Blade, and adds your proficiency bonus to your damage rolls to 1 target per short rest, which scales nicely with the Blade cantrips and/or the Smite attacks.
One thing I did to let me use a spell casting focus with no hands was to use a whistle as my spell casting focus. So, I am just blowing on this whistle whilst beating some poor bandit over the head.
Old times Victorian Police officer?
Sword bard can you use its weapon as a focus.
2 things on my mind.
Something that wasn't mentioned is sword bard can add his bardic dice on top of smite. It might be self evident, but it's a selling point.
Second, depending on party composition, I would consider grabbing order cleric 1 after getting bard6(extra attack), since we're not necessarily trying to get higher level spells, it doesn't affect our slots.
I'm rocking a Redemption Paladin/Eloquence Bard multiclass. I'm the face and the tank of the group, and it's a glorious combo. At level 9 without max charisma, I can roll a persuasion check of 27 as the LOWEST possible roll. Emissary of Peace + Silver Tongue + expertise in Persuasion is a ridiculous combo.
Putting a new meaning to "Face-Tank"
I'm playing a College of Whispers Bard and Oath of Conquest Paladin multiclass. Lots of burst damage and I have so many fear effect options. He's effectively an 80's slasher rewritten as a folk hero.
Definitely a fun build, the two classes blend very well together.
If you build this multiclass correctly you can basically do everything an entire party can do in one character.
Bard is actually pretty weak on Battlefield Control spells, though (unless you consider Hypnotic Pattern battlefield control; personally, I think of it more as a mass debuff). But other than that one weakness, you're absolutely right. 😉
I am playing this build in a party rn. You are absolutely right :D
If you go Paladin 6 (for Aura of Protection) and lorebard (as much as possible) you get a true Jack of All Trades. Not as overwhelmingly fantastic on the offensive in combat as taking levels in Swords bard (you don't get flourishes and the extra fighting style and can't use your weapon as your focus) but you get more spells, more skills and more survivability.
If you go fo rOath of Vengeance you also get Armour of Agathys and Spiritual Weapon and you'll be a monster. :D
@@morganpetros9635 by "battlefield" you mean the ground? They have plant growth for example(can't remember atm any other), but as a creature/s Control caster Bards can do a lot: faery fire, bane, tasha's laugh, suggestion, silence, plant growt, slow, psichic lance, polymorph, etc etc...these are just examples till level 4th, there's a lot more(charms, illusions with a creative DM...), bards are a big pain in the ass for the dm's monster my friend. :)
@@morganpetros9635 magical secrets wall of force
I just realized that blade flourishes give a movement bump after attacking. I'm really thinking about a hit-and-run build with a gem dragonborn Paladin 2 / Swords bard. Taking Shield of faith and going sword and board in heavy armor with defense fighting style, that's a baseline AC of 21 (chainmail) -23 (full plate mail). Then with Defensive flourish, that AC is between 22 and 29. I imagine most enemies would miss their opportunity attack at that kind of AC, so now they don't have a reaction. Find a way to slap on Booming Blade, mix in smites, and you're a freight train on the ground and a B1 Bomber with Gem Flight. Neat!
My pick is Glory Paladin 3/Valor Bard 17. Reason is entirely for Inspiring Smite. You are the hype
This is my build! Valerie the trainee Valkyrie:). It ain’t over till the fat lady sings!
Once Silvery Barbs was introduced it becme the must have spell for every bard. Any time there is a must have spell, I randomly give it to my baddies. You have never seen a table erupt in complete distain for their DM until you see a baddie pull out silvery barbs after a Paladin crits on a smite.
Oathbreaker 7 / College of Spirits 13
Use Oathbreaker channel divinity to snag a Wraith at level 5, butcher 7 creatures for it to rise as Specters under the Wraiths control then have your Wraithy boy hide inside you damage free and command your army of ghosts while smiting away and having the fun flavor of Spirts bard. Also the Oathbreaker Aura of Hate I think would apply to the specters
New subscriber here. I love looking at these, not old by any means but not in the last 3 month builds, and applying the new playtest for OneDnd to them. It really livens up the games.
Have the same built planned out, but with 2 lvls of Hexblade on top to get reliable dmg without wasting spellslots, and even more important focussing on only Charisma. plus other neat little things like Shield spell and simply seeing magic.
I like also the sorcerer to keep a free hand and use quickened spell as bonus action.
I went to 6th level Paladin to not sleep on all those lovely cha bonus to all my saves. But I do see your point about early smite abilities. Oh and also I went Lore Bard to get early access to Magical secrets.
To perform somatic components you could hold your weapon with the shield hand, it may not be raw but it's not unreasonable irl, that's how I do it with my bard/fighter
Outstanding build. I've been working on a hoplite build and like your solutions. Thanks.
On reconsideration, there are a couple of fairly crippling weaknesses to this build. First, its saves are going to suck dead weasels. It's only proficient in CHA and WIS, and doesn't have the stat points to build WIS up to anything approaching a reasonable bonus ... AND we're leaving the class long before we get to add our CHA bonus to all our saves.
More importantly, though, is that paladin is just as MAD as monk ... ang you've given us a build with only four ASIs, two of which you suggest using on feats.
A paladin MUST start with a high STR, and eventually max it out, or it's going to be a subpar melee combatant. It can *KINDA* get away with an only-okay CHA if it never plans to use a spell with an attack roll or save, but adding bard to the mix quashes that tactic ... especially since you apparently want the character able to cast "fight-winning" spells. So we need to eventually max out CHA as well.
I wonder if taking a single level in Hexblade isn't the answer? Granted, you wouldn't get your first ASI until 7th level, wouldn't get level 9 spells until 20th and would NEVER get your final Magical Secrets (ouch, that one hurts), but even though you'd still need to start out with a 15 STR to effectively wear plate armor, you wouldn't ever need to increase it because you'd only be *DEPENDENT* on CHA.
U could raise str and cha and forget con, using aid to bump your hp possibly...
Yes, but you'd still only have two ASIs available for actual ability score increases. This would mean you'd never get to max out either your weapon attacks or your spell attacks/DCs ... unless you take that single Hexblade level.
Well I just saw this video. Apparently we are thinking similar things. You may remember my Turtle build on the Battle Bard video. You said how would I build this Bardadin? Basically the same thing as that build. The thing I like about going Turtle Hexblade is the ability to dump both Strength and Dexterity. If you go point buy or whatever you can focus strongly on Constitution and Charisma. Then round up your stats so you aren't really lacking in any area. Like as a human Bard Paladin you need Strength, Constitution, and Charisma. Sometimes you may need to value Dexterity also since it can be hard to buy that expensive Fullplate to max out your AC. What do you do before you can buy/find that armor?
So yeah. Shelled Hexbardadin is the way to go.
Just diving a little deeper into this.
If you went point buy and Used Tasha's rules you could start with
STR 13
DEX 10
CON 16 (14+2)
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 16 (15+1)
That is very well balanced.
I've been thinking about a build like this for a few weeks now. A fun tidbit that I noticed is that Hexblade gets access to a Paladin Smite Spell at almost every spell level, with full caster progression. So 3 levels of Hexblade gives you Shield, Wrathful Smite, Branding Smite, and the usual Hexblade shenaniganry. Slap this onto either a paladin or a bard and go to town with smites all day!
Bardadin has become one of my favorite multiclasses. It seems like it has so many different things it can do while falling back on Smite Machine gun.
No hands free= Free Drop Spear, Cast Somatic Spell, Free item interaction pick spear back up
Maybe Whispers Bard tho for Big Big Smites?
I love that you TAPPED into one of the most potent pieces of bardic wisdom: Everything is a drum if you know how to play drums
I *REALLY* like this idea, but if I'm going to go Polearm Master I would really much rather dump the shield 🛡️ and use halberd, glaive ... or pike if I want to retain the flavor of the Greek hoplite. Not only do these weapons do greater damage and have Reach, but they also negate the "verbal or noncombat only" spellcasting limitation you've placed on the build.
I also love 💕 this build as a military COMMANDER concept, with the Persuasion and Intimidation skills and maybe eventually the Inspiring Leader feat 😈
Actually, screw that. Five minutes of basic arithmetic tells me the average damage of Spear + Shield + Dueling fighting style gives you *average* damage equal to the d10 weapons for your Attack action, and BETTER damage with your bonus action attack. It would seem that if you want to be *REALLY* effective with a polearm build, you need GWM ... which probably means dipping barbarian for Reckless Attack and just relying on paladin for spell slots ...
Hmmm ... barbarian 4/paladin X, maybe ...? 😉😈
I like this build, but my DM would ding me on the Polearm Mastery. A spear is a versatile, simple weapon. But the feat says longspear, which has the two handed property. He might let me slide with a quarterstaff comparison.
"When you take the Attack action and attack with only a glaive, halberd, quarterstaff, or spear, you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon" -the pike is also an option for the reaction part of the feat
College of Whispers gives a bunch more d6s with Psychic Blades, which is expended on a hit so like smite you already know if you have a crit. Maybe a level or 3 or Hexblade for curse and to not need more than 13 strength. If 3 levels, pact of the chain for advantage on your first attack from familiar, or pact of the blade to be able to take Great Weapon Master. Warlock also gets Armor of Agathys. Shadar Kai can get Elven Accuracy and comes with teleport and resistance (which is great with Agathys) after the teleport. Could consider Oath of Vengeance to 3rd level, or Oathbreaker Paladin to 7th. Vow of Emnity and Aura of Hate both do great things and 6th level in Paladin gets your Cha to saving throws for you and close by allies. You can tweak these to make an amazing smiting crit fisher, passible tank, and fair support character.
Personally I'd go Shadar Kai Hexblade 3 with pact of Chain for advantage on 1st attack, Oathbreaker 7 for Cha to dmg and saves, and Whispers Bard 10 for 5d6 Psychic Blades. Cap Cha and pick up elven accuracy. You'd be a 14th level caster with multi attack, use your 4th level spells for 5d8 smites, your 6th level for Armor of Agathys with 30 hp/dmg, and your 7th for simulacrum with magical secrets (force cage is 2nd choice)
In my home table, I leave the Multiclass rules in the DMG. Mainly because older editions always made it a pain for players trying to gain levels. Yeah, I could house-rule the progression, but I look at history, where people apprenticed to something, and eventually became Artisans and Masters or professional soldiers. You didn't often have the freedom (or money) to just cross-educate yourself in the manner offered by the multiclassing system.
I think a lot of people would give you flack for that choice but I have a lot of respect for it 🫡
I believe you can also look at it from a design vs thematic perspective. The 5e multiclassing design doesn't make much thematic sense, but you can imbue it despite the shortcomings. If you look at parallel systems, like PF2E, they don't allow multi-classing, but you have so much more variety within any given class. Unfortunately, without multiclassing, 5e doesn't offer you any option to play thematically nuanced characters with a good mechanical foundation. How are you supposed to play a Skald? Or a priest that's tricked into a pact with an unholy creature. Or a divine warrior that doesn't believe in using anything but his fists to deliver divine justice. What other systems allow through customization through out-of-class specific skills and feats, 5e can only do so through the currently designed multiclassing system. And it shouldn't be looked down upon for that. In the end, we all want to play a fantasy character, and if the mechanics are wonky but kinda allow it, shoot for the stars.
In the DND party I'm in is mostly Paladin w/ oath of ancients and a Bard.
Paladin12/Lore Bard6/Fighter2. Is also pretty nuts,
You still get Magical Secrets, all Paladin Spells, as well as Improved Divine Smite, and Aura of Protection. My favorite way to do it, is having your secrets be Haste and Destructive Wave. Like, just imagine, this really big and heavily armored guy, zoom across the battle field like the flash, and beginning a rapid divine assault on you on you. And with 2 fighter you get second wind. This build is hard to even damage, and has 5 attacks. That with a normal longsword, deals 2d8+smite damage+damage bonus across 3-5 hits.
I'd be tempted with a 1 level dip in hex blade warlock.
Point buy variant human can give you str 14+1, dex 10, con 14, int 8, wis 10, char 15+1.
But I like the idea of having stealth so maybe: str 13, dex 13+1, con 13, int 8, wis 11, char 15+1, for AC18 with breastplate, dex and shield).
Variant human gives you polearm master at level 1. With duelling at pally 2, you get two attacks, with +2 to damage from duelling and +3 from charisma for both attacks. (Plus smites when you want to nova)
Your AC won't be sky high, but you have the shield spell as an option.
Later, I'd also be tempted with Warlock 2 to get the invocation to get advantage on concentration checks. If I later go resilient Con it'd be very hard for mobs to drop my concentration spells.
If I later wanted GWM, I could go level 3 warlock for pact of the blade to allow me to use charisma with two-handed heavy weapons.
I have the best DM in the world. Im a Slightly modified paladin of the crown with a cool ass weapon that grows with me and Has a lot of cool abilities. I'm at 6 and have been toying wit the idea of a Multiclass. Another player suggested Bard and DM suggested College of Swords but since I had 6 levels in Paladin I didn't want to. Then DM allowed changing Extra Attack for Additional Magical Secrets and these changes have me hyped for when I start leveling in Bard. DM if you ever see this, you are the best.
That’s really cool of them!
@@DnD_Daily They are amazing. I started as their DM and then they took over so I could play once in a while but I think the student has outdone the Teacher.
Glory/Valour was my first Pal/Bard combo!
Just onnneee lvl in hexblade warlock really can set this build off!
A level of warlock to make it sad
Kobold, take the Sorcerer cantrip option for BB or GFB. Then go Whispers Bard instead of Swords, for the Whisper Smite. After 5 in Bard, grab 1 in Hexblade for obvious reasons, and 2 in Paladin for Divine Smite.
Now you're SAD, with even more smites, and your Whisper Smites will continue to go up in power better than Flourishes would.
I was thinking hexblade dip for shield spell and they get a smite. Using Charisma for weapon attacks is great since we can dump str and be far less MAD
But paladin heavy armor means we don't need a super high Dex for AC and paladin in general in a better dip for flavor and RP
Am i missing something? Paladins get their subclass at level 3 so you won't have the glory stuff in the build, also if you start out as a paladin you get everything you need in terms of equipment (though starting as a bard might be better.)
Good question as I wasn’t clear. I adopted the oaths and flavor of the oath of glory paladin without actually taking it.
The build does start out as paladin, if you start out as bard we don’t get heavy armor which we need because we’re dumping dex to be able to multi class with paladin.
@@DnD_Daily Ah thank you, sorry for not getting that it was the flavor that was on me
About to make this build but starting with the Hexblade dip. I'll be rolling with a staff instead of a spear. Taking Paladin levels at lvl 8 and 9 to turn on the smite machine. Maybe its more efficient to take those paladin levels after level 3 bard? So smiting at lvl 6 instead of that extra attack. Slots would be 4/3 with a short rest lvl 1 slot.
Two of my favorite subclasses combined?
I always imagined an Eldritch Knight as a Hoplite
Nothing says you can't. EK can get all the abjuration goodness but it is severely lacking on it's own for other kinds of spells. Maybe combined with Artificer to make your equipment magical or Wizard since EK is an Intelligence caster. Hoplite is just a category of weapons and tactics. Anyone proficient with martial weapons and medium armor could be one, I guess, to varying degrees.
@@ericpeterson8732 if I had to choose a class to MC it would be War Magic, maybe 2- 5 levels for Haste. But EK has a lot of baked in features that I like
mfw no extra attack until level 8
The big problem bardadin has that sorcadin or hexadin doesn't is that it takes 8 levels to get online. You are doing fine levels 1-4, but 5-7 you lag because of the tier2 power spike. Booming blade is often what can bridge the gap for paladin 2 caster X. Meanwhile, if you go paladin 6 caster X, you are a paladin which this early especially is an amazing class. Paladin 2 bard X has neither.
That said, high elf or CL/vHuman magic initiate can soften the blow significantly if you go paladin 2 bard X.
I like the build but I just think aura of protection and 1 level dip into hexblade is essential
I could have a very long discussion on this topic but I'll keep it brief. Going Aura of protection then multiclassing out is perfectly viable. Its just a completely different build. You would want to choose a different bard subclass or even better go Divine soul sorcerer. You don't need the bards multiattack afterall. The 1 level dip in hexblade is overrated. It's far more costly and gives far less in return than you would think once you get into the weeds of it (for bardadins and sorcadins specifically. Its perfectly viable for a palylock.)
The strength of this build is it's near a full caster in strength and near a full martial in strength. We delay our spell slot progression by 1 level. A single level. To get heavy armor and smites. When compared to the build your suggesting this build is a massively more powerful spellcaster. To put it in perspective at 8th level (1 warlock, 6 paladin, 1 either bard or sorc) your highest level spell slot is level 2. The same level with this build we have 4th level spells. Thats huge. Every other build I've mentioned here could not be considered a full caster while this build can... A full caster with heavy armor and smites that can flatten enemies.
This divide gets bigger when magical secrets comes online and heaven forbid we compare them at 20th level. Turns out wish and prismatic wall are real damn good. All this being said I think your build suggestion is going to be stronger between levels 3 and 8.
@@DnD_Daily Amazing break down! After seeing this build few months ago I really want to try it, but im torn because aura of protection is such a good feature. But as you've mentioned it having a 4th level or even 3rd spells at that point is absolutely amazing. I'm excited to try this out in our Descent into Avernus campaign.
@@DnD_Daily also i suggest taking double bladed scimitar to get that bonus action attack to off set the lack of extra attack. You are 3 levels behind from a normal extra attack, and with your of plan taking PAM it would be at 6th level, that too far away. After taking PAM at bard 4 you can drop the double bladed scimitar and live your spear and shield dream.
Nice idea!
That is really Cool! How much would you lose by going 2 levels of Fighter? So Paladin 2, Fighter 2, and 16 Bard?
Thanks!
The main cost of going fighter 2 is we delay our spell advancement by two levels and our extra attack. That’s a pretty high cost for getting a fighting style, action surge, and second wind.
I personally wouldn’t go that route but I think your character could still be quite good. Especially if you wait to take fighter until after you get paladin 2 and bard 6.
Run the build with a Thrikreen to be able to do everything you want raw, plus you don’t need heavy armor.
About the only change I'd consider a worthwhile investment would be trading your potential final Magical Secrets for the infamous single level Hexblade dip. Get a couple more spells, a 1st level shit that returns on a Short Rest, and of course the ability to use your Charisma for your spells *and* your weapon.
I like this, sounds fun and efficient 🐊
why not just take war cast
Source: Player's Handbook
Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one spell
You have practiced casting spells in the midst of combat, learning techniques that grant you the following benefits:
You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.
You can perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons or a shield in one or both hands.
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.
bards may use musical instruments for spells, they dont have to, which allows them to use a component pouch if they find one
So my thinking at the time was that war caster covers somatic but not material components. We don’t have a hand free with a shield and spear to use material components.
What I’ve since learned though, thanks to a viewer, is that swords bards allow us to use our sword as our material component.
This means war caster is unnecessary. We can cast all bard spells while holding a shield and spear.
Great question!
@@DnD_Daily if the spell has a material component it can be cast but if it has a somatic component and no material component you need a free hand , which means if you have war caster you can cast spells with verbal, somatic and material all with a weapon and a shield with the feat
“Material (M)
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell.
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access these components, but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.”
The exception is holy symbols. They just have to be visible on your person or shield.
I interpret all this to say that you still need a free hand to use material components while you have the warcaster feat.
@@DnD_Daily There are two ways around that, though.
First, if the spell has material components that aren’t consumed by the spell and don’t have a gold cost, can’t you just use your Swords Bard ability to use your spear as a magical focus to do the material components, since an arcane focus can be used that way normally?
Second, be a Thri-Kreen. Spear in one main hand, shield in the other main hand, and play the flute with your mouth and one or both secondary hands. Or a set of small drums with your secondary hands. Or any number of other small instruments.
Bashing your spear in rhythm against your shield could count as an instrument. I'd allow it as a DM, especially if the shield is designed to be more acoustic than a regular shield.
Nevermind, you address this later.
What does the starting stat spread look like for this one?
Tl;dr: its more nuanced than just "multiclass out of a half caster at an even level"
Generally, yes, paladins are better off stopping at an even level (6) for multiclassing. But there are exceptions.
Many builds go 7 levels for the subclass's abilitt. I generally dont see the value in it, but if building around, say, a conquest paladin's ability to drop enemies speed to 0 if theyre afraid and w/n 10', i can understand
An example from a character ive actually played, albeit ranger, is my gloomstalker 5/wildfire druid 5. I get extra attack and 3rd level spells (and a 4th level slot). If i had gone ranger 6 druid 4, i wouldnt have 3rd level spells, though i would have the same number of slots. In his case, having higher level spells is more important since the slots arent merely for smiting. And, should this character make it to 20th level, if i went 6/14, id have 9th level slots, but only 7th level spells. By going 5/15, i still have my 9th level slots, but i now also have 8th level spells.
With paladin, though, the aura of protection is far too strong of an ability to forgo if youre already committing to 5 levels for extra attack. So 6/14 makes great sense there.
If bard only had a ranged cantrip and booming blade…. Would be so great not to have to use the paladin weapon ability for that
Paladin 2/ (lmao) 🌙 Druid 18
And just hum "teddy bear picnic"
Or watch the short of the same name from Crypt TV
Lol funny that that video of TBP inspired a mtg deck of mine.
I read the title as barbarian lol
Heavy armor!!!! ❤️❤️❤️
Do I give it stats like a paladin or bard?
Start like a paladin, invest like a bard
@@DnD_Daily didn't think I'd get a reply this fast, big thanks ;)
I rule it so that sor or bard spellslots can't be used for smites though. Imo DIVINE smite has to use DIVINE spellslots to work. So only Cleric/Paladin multiclass should allow you to do this in my book.
Jeremy Crawford
@JeremyECrawford
Replying to
@J_McGrody
@J_McGrody
As with most bonus actions, you choose the timing, so the Shield Master shove can come before or after the Attack action.
Wow, you can speak in a normal tempo!?! This is much better than the ben shapiro tempo you do in some videos
It's Theseus from the game Hades! Loud greek braggart lauding his exploits as taunts.
just take war caster and then you dont need hands free
Swords Bards can use their weapon as the spell focus.
But does it smite better than a Sorcerdin(paladin/sorcerer).....?
Depends what level. Sorc admin doesn’t leave paladin until 6 while this build leaves at 2. So for tiers 1 and 2 this build wins on the weight of smites cast alone.
Tiers 3 and 4 though metamagic catches up and takes the edge.
This build can add a bardic dice to the smite....
Imagine not calling this Baladin v_v
If you're proficient with a drum set maybe you could get away with saying you drum rhythms against your shield with your spear
Most GMs are gonna let you build a drum into your shield, huh?
Sorry, but, nooope. Personally, I might eventually give you a magic shield that functions that way, maybe even give it some extra features to play off of the flavor, but at the outset? No way. Choices have consequences and if you want the benefits of a Paladin multiclass, you’re gonna have to deal with the downsides too.
The main problem with allowing this is just that it’s not super fair to the other people in the party. If you’re allowing this party member to do something they shouldn’t be able to, why shouldn’t that apply to everyone? Making it magic item fixes that problem to a degree, because the player will probably have put the time in by that point and it won’t feel like you’re just immediately nullifying the downside to the multiclassing.
So.... when do you take level 3 paladin for the Oath of Glory? Lol
Paladins dont get the subclass until 3 so if you only take 2 levels of paladin, youll never have a paladin subclass
Are you ok? You sound like you have laryngitis