So many of these UA-cam analysis videos break down to: "look at how many historical inaccuracies I was able to find in this scene." I love that you took the time to contextualise why things are choreographed and shot in certain ways to aid storytelling, convey emotion or drive a narrative whether or not it was 100% accurate.
Yeah tbh when fighting experts ignore that film makers are MAKING A FILM it feels like a really lame gotcha. Like duh, filmmakers KNOW they aren't doing realistic re-enactment. So it's nice to see a fighting expert being a bit more thoughtful about the fight scene, teaching us a bit about the (un)realism and the cinema, and the relationship between the two.
I was just about to echo this. When I watch a movie or show I'm not looking for 100% realism because reality can be boring sometimes, I'm looking for good storytelling that _feels_ real.
great analysis. this scene is so well-staged that even the parts that aren't super martially sound can be explained by both characters being tired and scared
I don't know man. They don't look or move like fighters. Their footwork is weird. The strikes don't look powerful or trained. They look more like flailing. Even the HEMA guy that was demoing the short guard looks way more comfortable and light on his feet without moving. The ground work makes no sense. There's definitely room for improvement. It's cool that they're using book techniques though.
@@rorschach775 when death is knocking at your door, technique goes out the window and you are relying on instinct. both fighters are young and relatively inexperienced, while extensively trained, fighting to the death is likely quite unnerving for them still.
@alecpitts6843 not true. You fall back on training when you panic. If you do a thing so often that it becomes second nature, then that becomes the thing you do. And if they had trained they would have done these lunges thousands of times.
I just love that the armor in this movie works. I hate how so many movies have armor basically made out of butter. Here, he has to wear his opponent down and get him under the armor for a killing blow. The armor works.
It's something I've come to get really annoyed by in videogames as well. Most games have lots of character stats for players and enemies to make them vastly different in combat power. Don't make armor mostly decorative. Use it as part of the game balance.
The thing that doesn't work is Chalamet's light frame being in that heavy armor. He will be worn out in 2 swings if this was for real. At the end of the fight Hal should be obviously more exhausted.
Something else I like alot here is that they KEEP THEIR HELMETS ON. Most Hollywood movies would insist on the visors going up or no helmets so their actors can emote, at the cost of realism and believability. Them keeping and using their armor correctly just adds so much here.
I actually question the visors going down. Visors greatly, greatly, limit visibility and outside of sport combat I am not sure this what combatants would actually do.
@@Crotalus206 Are you trying to say that if someone had a visor on their helmet, the specificly wouldnt or shouldnt use it when fighting? And at what point are you going to consider why the visor is there in the first place? Ridiculous
@@drpebbs Yes exactly. In my experience, visors massively limit vision and breathing. Like it's fucking terrible, I'm speaking from experience, especially this style of helmet they are wearing.
What I like the most about this scene is how you can really feel them get tired - not just the heavy breathing, but also how they stumble around and flail their swords after the first grappling part. I also liked the takedown - instead of just a quick, clean, devastating throw, he had to run the other guy down until he finally fell, not too dramatically either.
Grappling while nearly naked is TIRING. I can't imagine how exhausting it would be with a full set of plate, in padded cloth, while also trying to punch and smash your opponent's head in.
I really appreciate the approach here, instead of just relentlessly criticizing every tactical mistake, looking for the most realistic move in any situation, you're looking at it as a scene from a movie. You really put in the work to demonstrate that every break from traditional combat is sold by the pacing, cinematography, and acting, instead of hinging your criticism entirely the scene's choreography. I really enjoy this kind of holistic criticism.
Can't agree more. Breaking down scenes like this is benefited greatly when the analysis is informed by both historical knowledge, and knowledge of cinematography. They showed the Inigo v Wesley fight for a sec from Princess Bride, and despite having seen numerous others, I'd love to see a video like this on that fight from these guys.
I'd say it's more realistic, too. In an actual fight, with your life on the line, you're not going to make every move perfectly. You're not going to precisely parry an attack to then lead into a perfect killing blow. You're going to make mistakes. Critiquing it like this is more realistic than just going "This move was unrealistic because you could do this" It's the heat of battle so criticizing it to perfection is just unfair.
Also I feel like people tend to be overly critical of tactically bad plays. People make mistakes all the time in fights, people get lazy, hurt, distracted, a glove can get caught on some other piece of kit, a strap is rubbing the wrong way, crick in your back, etc. There's a million reasons why someone might do something that looks a bit weird or isn't perfectly by the book and that I think can forgive a lot of the slightly ahistorical 'movie behaviors' people do in choreographed fights
what i absolutely love is the exhaustion we see in the two. too often, extended melees scenes feature people fighting as if they've only just started, even if they've been going for like 20 minutes, as seen in movies like the LOTR trilogy. In this scene and in the battle later on, it very quickly descends into exhausted people who barely have the strength left to stand, hitting each other with blows that don't even have the force to bounce off.
to be fair with LOTR, it's fantasy even aregorn isn't a regular human hes a race that lives for hundreds of years so its hard to get a gauge on stamina when dealing with mythical beings
I can imagine how surprised you would bee, when you will see that in lort they have dragons and magical creatures 😂😂😂. That's why the " humans " are op as well. We are no talking about normal medieval humans. They are special as well, or they would have never survived the middle earth to begin with. So that's such a dumb example.
They probably aren't all that afraid to hit each other. I mean I assume the swords are dull and they look like they are wearing actual armor. Why shouldn't they fully commit to smacking each other with their swords. I like to think they had a field day to do just that.
@@onlyoneball6256 I mean, I have to agree, it’s two guys on a Hollywood set so they try their best to make it believable. However in terms of sword fighting in cinema this is way more accurate than 99% of movies. I don’t care if you are in the best shape ever, 90 minutes of fighting is going to leave you exhausted. I am not a tough guy or a bad ass… I’ve only been in a few fights in my life and after about 60 seconds I’m spent. I literally don’t have the energy to keep going and the other guy kick my ass. I have also won fights by ending them early but I just got lucky. The other guy, telegraphed his haymaker like an idiot. I don’t know how to fight but this dude was even more inept. I hate fighting and I’m not tough. I would rather connect with someone about our favorite Science Fiction books. But I saw his fist coming from a mile away. Even as wimpy as I am, (it’s ok I’m a nerd I don’t train to fight) the fool never had a chance. I saw him coming from a mile away. I sat there and pretended that I did not see him winding up to launch a haymaker at my face. He tried to hit on my girlfriend, and I told him to fuck off. he didn’t like that so he chose to try to hit me in the face. It’s important to pretend like you are weak and not ready for a fight. it gives your opponent a false sense of security. The dude swung at me. I pretended like I wasn’t aware of him. But within about five seconds I ducked his fist, flipped him around and hit him HARD in the kidney and took him to the ground pounding his face. That bar now has a picture of him labeled “do not serve”. They also have a picture of me! “Treat this man well, he’s a good dude!” I hate fighting. I don’t know how to fight. I’m just your average dude who wants to live his life in peace and never fight anyone. I want to go out on the town with my girlfriend and make friends with everyone. I don’t have an attitude problem. I just want to live a peaceful life full of love. But if somebody wants to fuck with my piece of mind? Yeah I’m not a trained fighter, but I’m not a weak man. I am a man of discipline. I am a measured man in my words and actions. I am an adult. I will do anything to solve any problem using my words: but if somebody makes it impossible to reason with using words, I don’t have to be a trained fighter. I don’t care how big you are. If you cross that line, I might end up in the hospital, trying to fight you… And I don’t care. If I see a man who weighs 100 pounds more than me hit his woman… Yeah, I will get beat up. He is probably capable of killing me. I don’t care. If I see him hit a woman, I’m no longer concerned for my own well-being. I’ve had the misfortune of eating a well done steak. Shame, I prefer, medium rare! The human throat is as rare as it comes. I’m a bit scream about blood. Not a fan. But there is no amount of steroids that makes a man big enough to have someone bite them on the throat HARD. If I can eat a well done steak, your throat is easy. No amount of steroids and bodybuilding can protect your throat. And if I can get close enough to bite? You’re dead. I have no problem fighting Dirty if I am defending myself or anyone I care about. I will bite and scratch and use every dirty tactic at my disposal: because I did not start this. But I will finish it. I am a pretty decent dude and I don’t want this. But there have been times when I felt threatened So I went to the bathroom to pocket a metal toilet paper holder… just in case. A lot of bars are probably wondering what happened to their metal toilet paper handle. I took it. It was me. I took it because it was hard metal. Just in case I had to defend myself. It’s me… I took it: I also pocket shot glasses at bars just in case. I don’t want to get in a fight with anyone, but if somebody starts one? I’m going to walk out of that bar. And the other guy will be leaving in an ambulance. That’s only if I’m kind. Otherwise he’s leaving in a hearse.
@@onlyoneball6256 I think you missed my point… Many swordfights in movies are completely unrealistic because the people fighting are spending more time hitting the other person’s sword than actually trying to hit the other person. I was saying it was refreshing because this looks like actual combat.
@@mattlawson714 My point is that it is easier for them to do this because of their armor. I understood what you said I was just adding onto it. Also you should check out the final duel scene from the MacBeth movie if you want another fairly good fight scene where they get exhausted. Theres a video like this one that goes over it, not by the same guy tho.
Anyone else find it funny a guy named CHALIMET played the king of England and a guy named PATTINSON played the Dauphin? History is not without a sense of irony
Well for Chalamet-Henry connection it makes sense since the kings of England at that time were descended from French nobility and still spoke French for centuries after becoming kings of England. Henry IV and V were the first to use English in court in an official capacity though.
The thing I love most about this fight is till how exhausting it is. There’s a moment in which they both just take a break to catch their breath while on the ground.
I love that you can hear the armor and their frantic breathing. It gives a lot more weight and realism to the fight. I also love the part where Hal trips Percy. It’s such a small thing that could actually happen in combat, a small mistake that leads to defeat
@tileux he's not talking about the purposeful takedown that leads to the initial ground fight, but the trip which creates the last grappling exchange. Hal falls down and his foot happens to trip Percy by accident. It's dumb luck, and therefore realistic.
@@spankyjeffro5320 That stuff happens in cheesy movies. IRL blood doesn’t gush out like a geyser and you don’t scream out when your throat is full of liquid. He probably got stabbed through the jugular and lost consciousness in a few seconds so he didn’t really have time to react at all
I loved how out of breath and tired they were after the first few exchanges. I have to imagine it was exhausting fighting in full plate armor, even for short bouts and you'd probably take space to get time to recover.
Then you’d be sorely mistaken from a historical context POV. Sure the costumes, sets and fight scenes are well performed and executed, giving a sense of accuracy but this is based off Shakespeares narrative who is agreed by scholars to have been significantly dramatised. The duel against hotspur never happened, he died in battle. The duel against Charles VII never happened , agincourt did not unfold like that. Movie is biased and pro English by the desperate attempts at making the dauphin seem unlikeable for no reason. There was no character named Falstaff, was added here with no purpose. The movie is accurate on a micro, but on a macro, it’s as historically accurate as Frozen…
@@username-yc3bdOutlaw King, hands down. The armor could have been a little bit better in just a couple of aspects--the coifs and aventails could have been more closely fitted and some of the English knights have visors and plate arm protection (Edward II has spaulders and vambraces, that's it) some decades too early. But.... yeah, that's still pretty fucking stellar as movies go. The swordplay leaves a lot to be desired, sadly, but its easily one of the most historically accurate films out there.
@@clemsi7596 to further add to the historical inaccuracy, the siege depicted in the film has the English use trebuchets to break the walls of the French castle and force their surrender… in reality, they used cannons as the main siege weapon of the day, and the English had been using cannonades and handgonnes for a good 60 years by that point in open combat. Though it’s somewhat understandable why they used Trebuchets, as it’s more “medieval” to a modern audience.
Big respect to the fact you understand the cinematic viability of certain decisions. People usually nitpick for hours at historical inaccuracies without understanding anything about filmmaking and how boring their super realistic vision would be. That doesn't seem to be the case with this channel.
The only way to make a "realistic fight" interesting (typically) is to have all the drama be in the build up. Like in old kurasawa movies with unarmoured samurai in mortal combat, there's a lot of circling, staring, a few grip adjustments, the spectators become as silent as death and then in a massive exlosive flurry of at most three swings the whole things over and either one or both combatents are gravely wounded
@@Eerik_Arvonen The filmmakers *don't* know about the flaws, how could they? Adorea Olomouc (youtube channel name) makes videos with better choreography drawn straight from historical technique with a budget far lower than that of a big-ticket movie. The difference is that the people that make their choreography actually studied the historical martial arts being depicted.
Some people just have no taste and would eat anything... like Arthur Dayne fighting Ned's Guards before the Tower of Joy... it was not only totally unrealistic but also joy-less to watch.
I really like how you not only compare the choreography to real combat, but also explain why the choreography is done the way it is, including safety considerations for the actors.
The takedown heard 'round the HEMA world. While it doesn't look like it, the floor was padded. The guy holding the drink is a good friend and former student of mine. It was a pretty hard throw, and harder than I'd like to see in HEMA tournaments since there are swords waving around. I've been thrown harder than that in Judo, and while it's not pleasant, I don't recall the person being thrown sustaining any injuries. It can certainly knock the wind out of you! If I were the ref, I'd give the fighter a warning. HEMA wrestling is not at the level it should be, which I am trying to rectify in my own small way with my own students.
History vs choreography aside, a fight is a fight. Mistakes happen. Improvisation happens. Anger and grappling and whatever dirty things go down so that one person can survive. I think this scene really gets that across and the details you point out through the video as to the historic accuracy of it just make it even better of a scene.
Aye man, im not a sword fighting or historical combat fan what so ever but when the video ended I was surprised 11min went by that quick, so even for me this kept me entertained, loved the insights into everything and appreciate you keeping it simple enough I could understand everything with 0 knowledge about it. Keep it up man, ill keep an eye out for your stuff.
huge respect for not just criticizing the inaccuracies but also understanding why they might be inaccurate and even acknowledging and praising even when the film sacrifices some realism in favor of making another part of the film better. Really good analysis
@@tappajaav I used Avid film composer almost exclusively. A little Final Cut Pro. Before that I cut on Grass Valley video editing systems and before that I cut on actual film using moviola and KEM machines.
Great work on the analysis. I see a lot of HEMAtubers/swordsmen approach every movie as if they were actually trying to kill one another, instead of being actors. The negativity gets really old and eventually just turns into an overblown hatefest. Glad to see a refreshing interpretation done by you.
I don't want to be a Star wars nerd, but I think the reason that there's so much blocking in Star wars lightsaber duels is that the majority of the trainers are Force sensitive and can predict what is coming to an extent so it ends up with a lot of blocking until one of the makes a mistake that the other takes advantage of
He didn't have a problem with blocking itself. The issue he was referring to is the habit many fight scenes (in any movie) have where the characters attack the other character's weapon instead of the person holding it In real combat sometimes you attack the weapon but mostly you want to attack the person. Star Wars had a lot of 'swing straight at the other guy's lightsaber instead of trying to swing on the guy' in a few fights
To be fair, the Duel of Fates is undoubtedly the best lightsaber battle in live action Star Wars :) I shouldn't have picked on it! :) (The best light sabre duel is Obi Wan and Darth Maul's rematch in Clone Wars. It's sublime).
If you watch the trajectory of a lot of swings in the Star Wars fights, they rent aiming at their opponent. That’s what he means. People blocking attacks is fine.
"I don't want to be a Star wars nerd..." But you are going to be, regardless. It's OK, we're all well used to the nerdiness of Star Wars nerbs by now. Trust me. 🙄
As someone with 7+ years of HEMA experience (mainly Fiore), this is PERFECT HEMA content. This is exactly what I am looking for and love to see. Keep this kind of stuff up!
So basically a battle scene that combines actual historical accurate combat with things that you cant prevent, such as exhaustation, grapling, and overall things that would happen in an actual fight, so cool!! :D
That's just like modern Britain and having real-life nobility not wanting the citizenry to have guns and people playing along, or the various forms of insanity in other countries. Honestly, most countries have some insane shared belief or other.
True, but that means these men get to go home, and not have to be on that side of the blade. Not easy necessarily, but you have better chance at home than the battlefield.
I'm from the school of commercial construction, and you would not BELIVE the amount of life threatening near misses from equipment, both vehicular and handheld, that have almost shorn a limb from some guy in a group of tradesmen not moving away because it would read to everyone as them being 'scared and 'a pussy'. I have to imagine the same can be said among the retinue we see in the scene
this might also be just me but my idiot brain is often very late sensing danger. I've nearly been hit by a car and not react to it until the adrenaline hit me minutes later. I've laughed about nearly being tipped out of suspended scaffolding like 9 floors up, only to feel my heart suddenly pounding out of my chest much later. My dumb ass would've definitely just stood there like that lol
True, this is why whenever there is a fight between two guys on a night out, everyone around them makes a wide circle and says "Woah, keep your distance, lads. This is a duel between noble adversaries and for us to become involved would be a dishonour both to ourselves and the ancient rite of combat."
I study and coach HEMA and honestly, you kinda get used to it. Obviously we're not getting dangerously close to spars but its not uncommon when judging or coaching to stand a few feet away from an active spar. Because the attacks aren't coming at you they're relatively safe. That and there's far less gigantic, overly committed swings than choreography shows.
I just wish they'd had portrayed the Battle of Agincourt more accurately. The biggest takeaway European militaries got from the battle was how decisive English longbows and bad weather could be. The French were forced into the fight as a knee jerk reaction to a volley of English arrows, and their cavalry was stopped by mud and pointed stakes pounded in by English archers, funneling the French, who were already being funneled by terrain, into the English infantry and flaking fire from enlish archers. And when the infantry started to falter the archers rushed into the melee. The battle in the movie was just a moshpit
@@tylerbryanhead Historically the Dauphin isn't at Agincourt, I mean. And it's pointless to ask for historical realism in the film since it's based on a play.
I've not seen any evidence that everyone in Europe was taking notes from Agincourt. In fact the Battle Of The Golden Spurs saw the guildsmen doing the same: Making the knights charge across mashy terrain, catching it into a pike line, then dispatching them. That was 1302, well ahead of 1415. Now that (and the Erfgooier ambush to free Floris V) was stuff that had people taking notes, as commoners could reliably defeat nobles.
"Biggest takeaway?" Funny how longbows were absolutely trampled into the ground at Patay by a much smaller force. And, oh, the English lost the war. And then warfare in Europe didn't change all that much until pike and shot, despite all the noise from anglophiles. It's almost like the English spent 100 years losing a war they started and need to focus on some statistical flukes to not be ashamed.
I love that you acknowledge the moments in this scene that are done for cinematic effect that they get away with, but you do so without bashing the movie for being a movie. That's a really nice change in energy, and I like the positivity, even for something I haven't seen before.
Can we just take a moment and really soak in how brutal close/single combat was in these days? Not to mention anything other than nobles/highborn wouldn't be really wearing much armor, much less wielding a nice castle forged sword. The most a lowborn could hope for might be a gambeson with a helmet of some sort, so the first unchecked thrust or cut would likely end the fight unless it was a glancing blow. I remember watching a long documentary on the Battle of Towton and the horrific wounds found on the skeletons of the casualties. That was a real eye opener for me. Very cool breakdown by someone with actual swordplay experience, thanks for the great video!
"the first unchecked thrust or cut would likely end the fight" -- I think you underestimate how hard it is to quickly kill a human. Also, a gambeson and helmet provided a decent level of protection to the vitals, at least against spears and swords.
@@jrd33 Yes and no... if you got stabbed, would you keep trying to fight knowing that you'd just get stabbed again, or drop away and hope your buds would handle it?
@@colbyboucher6391 In the heat of battle, fired up by adrenaline and fear, I an not sure how often you would be making decisions rationally. Often people injured in a fight don't even realize they've been hit until they see the blood. But others are out of the fight from a minor wound, so I guess it's hard to generalize.
Seeing this first fight with half-sword stuff, bashing with the pommel, the fist fighting and wrestling, and the finish with the dagger in the gap in the armor, I knew I was going to like the movie.
I think the disarming strike was aiming at Hal's hand not the sword in which case dropping the sword makes sense, Hostpur nearly cut his hand off! It's hard to see with the blur though and I could easily be mistaken. It's also possible Hal simply had a weakened grip upon his sword after being knocked over. This fight had me excited for the rest of the film and I was so disappointed by the battle later on. ):
To me it looked like Hal didn't have a great grip on it, but is still bringing it up for defense. Hotspur catches it and it's just enough torque to pop it out of Hal's hand, but the forward movement is still there so the sword moves forward. I've lost a sword in similar way (but it was tied to my finger at the time, so I was able to recover - SCA vs HEMA.. very different, but I think the physics still make sense here.. )
Felt it was more of a 'Drop it'/throw it in favor of steadying his fall.He both made his hand avalible to easier steady himself as he fell backward, and got it out of the way so he didn't fall on it. In the spur of the moment i would say it seemed to make more sense drop his long sword as he was getting 'cornered' and falling to steady himself, and reach for his shorter back-up weapon.
I think it is because the visibility is limited in the armor and he knew he's hand was vulnerable so he dropped the sword without looking, knowing it was going to be hit if he didn't do anything. If he tried to hold on to the sword it may have been to slow to react. He was also falling and was focused and how he was going to fall and how to react to the strike on his vulnerable hand. In this sense, he had to prioritize between falling safely and not incuring an injury to his hand or hold on to the sword and potentially hurt his hand. Either way he would have to get up while holding the sword which would have been slower so he just gave up to be a step ahead. You can see he trips the other opponent later when he falls backwards to surprise him and stab him with the dagger.
What an amazing video, you articulate your points well and added rational conclusions of why they did certain things that is pretty rare to see and even more to see it done so professionally and politely.
This is probably my favorite medieval fight scenes of all time. They really capture the chaotic and messy nature of what a real fight looks like. Especially showing how exhausted they are only after a minute or two of fighting. I’ve seen so many YT channels that focus on HEMA or historical battles criticize that this movie is so inaccurate to what a medieval fight would look like because they would have done X move and been so much better trained…except when you actually see fights in real life, even with well trained fighters, they are incredibly messy and people are always making mistakes. Also, as long as the fighters are pretty evenly matched, exhaustion is probably one of the biggest factors in who actually wins a fight. Your stamina changes drastically when you’ve got a ton of adrenaline pumping thru your system and you stop breathing properly. Anyways, love this movie and hope the Edgerton brothers do more.
This is some quality analysis! First off, I'm always happy to see The King get a bit more love, I wouldn't say it's SUPER underappreciated, but I think people brushed it off a bit quick. Second, love that you go at this with multiple lenses, really gives us a full view. Not just the historical/technical fighting side but also story/shot. Can't wait to check out more from this channel!
Was in a taekwondo tournament at 14. It's 3 minutes of constant kicking. If you ask the average person to kick nonstop for 10 seconds its tiring. Was beyond exhausted at end of tournament. You train for how to fight while tired actually in MMA.
@@_shotzeroadds great context to what youre descirbing in a real context. Definitely recommend more cutaways to real life examples like that. Great vid. Hope your channel balloons after the exposure its getting. Want to see more lol.
Great review - one thing I like about this fight as well is it sets up/foreshadows the Battle of Agincourt in it's initial knightly poise and classical warfare with longswords giving way to the brutal reality of tripping your opponent and fighting tooth and nail on the floor with a short weapon to achieve victory.
Worst part of the film is that they neither stayed true to Shakespeare and made a nice film, not stayed true to history and made a great film, instead choosing to portray a nonsense that is neither a rendition of the play nor a historical account, with random moshpit battle instead of Agincourt. We have multiple accounts of how that battle transpired, it would be great visually, but no instead this weird thing they made is an embarrassment.
@@Fera-gr5mmI would think that ideally the battle be decided at a distance, close combat with the dagger just feels more dangerous for both parties. Parries are a lot more difficult with daggers.
As a 3D animator student I find it fascinating trying to get as into the line, between realism and spectacle. It's really hard to make something visually entertaining, and at the same time make it somewhat in a realistic sense, believable. One of the main things besides technique I think is often overlooked in entertainment, is the actual feel of fear from both parties when it comes to a battle to the death, The duelists comes to mind on that first fighting scene, where you can see even the way that they fight, the confidence and experience of one fighter, and the ineptitude of the other, but on both sides you can feel they know they are playing with fire.
Saw this movie a few years ago and I was surprised at how good it was for being a Netflix original (at least I remember it being one, now I'm not sure). Love the frame by frame, breaking down shot by shot. Y'all do some good work, look forward to watching more.
I still remember just turning this movie on one night randomly on netflix expecting something mediocre, and instead finding gold. This is genuinely one of my favorite movies to rewatch. Excellent video!
The King is definitely top 3 movies set in medieval Europe for me. Such great acting, photography, and script. Really a modern day classic if you ask me.
this is the first time i've seen your channel, and i have to say i'm impressed, for the same reasons that most of the other comments point out. i think i'll be checking out more of your videos :)
I never been much into sword fights for the longest time, but after watching this video essay about how the movie has one of the better choreography of almost accurate combat has made me subbed you. The amount of detail that you displayed both from the movie and your own demonstration has levitate my appreciation the art so much more. Kudos
Your analysis is very detailed and nuanced, you don't just talk about the historical accuracy, but also mention the reason why most fights are portrayed the way they are in media, I like that a lot
Chalamet's performance at 0:30 into this is so good, his delivery to challenge Hotspur is not arrogance as you so often see in movies, you see this great mixture of mental exhaustion, reluctance, stress, and fear on his face. He knows he has a good chance at dying in the duel.
The King was an amazing movie, and it really highlights how "unglamorous" fighting in full armor would actually be. Its less "Knights in Shining armor riding into the sunset" and far more "Warriors fighting a war to the bloody end"
One of the best movie fights & the best breakdown of a duel Ive watched, prefect balance of historical accuracy while not downplaying the necessary inclusion of 'movie fight' tropes, well done sir 👍
Thank you. Our next video (finally!) is on the last duel. And it’s fascinating cause I’m once again collaborating with Gindi on it and he’s like “nah this is terrible” and I’m like “yeah but movies!” So hope you stick around!
I really liked this movie and I loved the fight scenes. They were absolutely brutal and despite being obviously choreographed in the duel where some of the "swinging at the sword" occurs, most of it was incredibly believable. I loved this movie quite a lot. Love that you are pointing out the "plausible" ideas and actions in the movie instead of pointing out hte mistake.
"The headbutt probably wouldn't do very much through the armor" This is incorrect. The headbutt wouldn't do much damage to the opponent's face, but a good headbutt is about concussing the enemy by accelerating their head so their brain hits the inside of their skull, not breaking their nose. As you pointed out, Hal can be see recoiling in the following cut, so he was not protected from this effect. It's about follow through, not impact.
I REALLY appreciate your treatment of this fight, particularly the balance between historical validity and the necessity to make certain things digestible to the audience.
I appreciate this breakdown as well. As someone who appreciates accuracy this really makes me want to watch this film as I have never seen it. I really like at 8:20 when Hal has Hotspurs back Hotspur is pulling down on his visor to prevent Hal from opening it. It shows great attention to detail and how when you can’t see what your opponent is doing defending is always on your mind. This is a great bit of movie making. Thanks for sharing!
One thing you didn't mention that was great was the fact that at the end of the fight Hal was clearly exhausted. He laid down on his opponent and caught his breath. No springing up as fresh as a daisy. A small but powerful detail that makes it more real
It makes it very human, I agree! We're working on our THE LAST DUEL video now (which probably won't come out till August) and there's some behind the scene footage of Ridley Scott saying to Jodie Cormer something like: "your fate depends on which of these middle aged men get tired first". Stamina is such an important factor.
I knew nothing about this movie when i pressed play. I didn't even know it existed. I was blown away. Probably my fave movie of all time. First movie I've ever watched again right after it ended.
Think that through for a second. Would the citizens of a nation give up fighting just because their leader lost a duel? Believe it or not, wars are fought by nations of people, seriously committed, not the cartoon trope of two arrogant leaders.
Nah, in most wars one side is full of men forced to protect their country vs the other side who is forced to attack said men. Propaganda's a hell of a drug, but sometimes the threat of being executed works well enough for a man to slay his own kind.
many modern swordsman and fenceman often forget that while yes using long swords quick with tiny thrusts and cuts is effective its only effective against non armored opponents while yeah he couldve tapped the back of hals head it wouldnt have done anyhting due to the helmet and chainmail so it just wouldve been wasted movement
Absolutely gets a subscription, just for finally putting what I've thought about the fight breakdowns into words. Visually plausible. That headbutt would do nothing irl, but even as a hema practitioner who knows that, as a viewer i'm still fully convinced by it in the moment. I also appreciate that you take into consideration that characters making a martial mistake, such as over-parrying, is totally plausible. Its hard not to over-parry when a big point is coming at your face during hema, so I can only imagine what it's like in real combat.
Thanks mate. A sound break-down with grown up acknowledgement of what the piece we're watching actually IS. Stage (or screen) Combat done properly has a lot of moving parts because it has a lot of jobs to do within the story. Great, insightful, useful content. On my first watch -I'll subscribe to your channel. Cheers.
I think what makes this great fight scene is that it adds theatrical elements without making it too theatrical. We can read all the manuscripts and treatises on medieval fighting, and even practice it in HEMA, but I believe that if you had 2 combatants fighting for what they were fighting for, in heavy restrictive armor, the inconsistencies we see are probably more realistic than we think.
God. It feels wrong thats such a brutal scene. It looks like they're actually trying to kill one another. And when hal wins. Its not pretty its gross. Its almost disturbing. That must've been such a good scene.
Just watched The King for the first time the other day. What impressed me the most was how battles are portrayed as ugly, exhausting, desperate affairs. The film makes its message clear: "war is bloody and soulless." It never glorifies violence and death, not even for cinematic flair, and instead chooses brutal honesty. This duel set the tone for the entire film.
I love that they both reach exhaustion very quickly, that's not often depicted in cinema or entertainment; that even when you're fighting for your life, a couple minutes of going all out in plate armor would have even a highly conditoned person heaving.
You having said the thing about the visors without hatches leads perfectly into the wresteling scene on the ground at 8:20 , you can see the he holds his visor to prevent it from being opened by his opponent, awesome
I am reading the "Ill made Knight" (William Gold) Series, written by Chameron Christian, right now and I did not know that Fiore in the book actually is the Fiore referenced here. Learned something new. Good video. I agree, The King was, or rather is, a very good movie.
Cutting as the head butt connects is a shame I feel. It dulls the visual impact. Makes you feel like you blinked and missed it. Its a Western technique. In classical Eastern martial arts films would show it connect, wait a beat, cut and show the impact again.
Yeah, I think they did it for safety. Essentially in the reverse angle they can kinda jerk themselves back (possibly with a wire but who knows) and the cut + sfx sells it. But yeah, in HK and Eastern action films they'd do a double cut to sell the impact.
Absolutely incredible, detailed assessment, LOVE this. The Hal kind of throwing his sword away bit, the second to last major action of the fight, strikes me as entirely possible to do in the heat of a truly fatal fight, no matter how much experience one has by that young age. Maybe if you've been fighting for decades and the sword is truly one with your hand, I could see it being hard to believe, but. On the other hand, The Fifth was obviously trained since youth and seemed to be one of the toughest and most self-motivated kings of the lot, so I suppose it's tough to believe from that viewpoint. Anyway, just some rambling reflections of my own. Thanks again, awesome vid!!
Thanks mate some great observations. There's some excellent discussion in this (now long) comment thread with others discussing how throwing away the sword may be about balance and other such theories. All which I think are very plausible! Which is awesome, I love being schooled (and that people also want to see the best in the choreography!)
Man, the algorithm really works in mysterious ways. This video is really good but it its about a Shakespeare adaptation that not many people watched. Im very happy for you guys
Thank you for this insightful breakdown! I also love how well they've managed to bring across the very real danger of becoming fatigued during armored combat. Towards the end they both start grunting and breathing heavily. Paired with the sharp camera work, sound design and editing it all comes together wonderfully.
I loved this movie. The scene where they are laying siege and sending off flaming shots from the trebuchets is one of my FAVORITE shots in cinema. Really enjoyed your analysis of this fight
This channel is criminally underrated, I love essay about movie scenes and your attempt at it is precise and unlike anything I’ve ever seen ! Subscribe.
I’m sure this is a very obvious comment but I think another big aspect of this scene is, while these young men have skills beyond there years to be sure, they’re still kids. The wide shots, the sloping shoulders, and the deep panting from both men, adds to the desperation. This is not a fight between to noble princes for the honor of the realm, it’s a brutal scrap between to teenagers to save their people and prove their banner is greater than the other.
The choreography in this movie was great but the final battle was a huge letdown. When it was revealed that the final battle was Agincourt, I was stoked, having watched Tod’s Workshop Arrow vs Armor series. I pictured fully-armored knights knee-deep in the mud, while longbowmen let loose arrow after arrow from like 20 feet away. But it was just a generic melee. The mud was only as bad as a soccer field in the rain. A single longbow arrow hitting a propped-up set of armor in one of Tod’s Workshop’s videos was more dramatic than that battle, unfortunately.
While it wasn’t very historically accurate: I still think the final battle was really good. It shows the basic concept of how mud was used during the actual battle. It shows that fighting in mud is bloody exhausting (they do a pretty good show of combat being exhausting in the video’s duel as well). More importantly: the fight was messy, both figuratively and litterally. Which fit the mood the show was going for after effectively sacrificing a bunch of troops to win the bigger fight
@@daanstrik4293 it was a good battle on its own, it was just generic. This is the battle that demonstrates the power of the longbow and changed how battles were fought for centuries; they had like two volleys from regular-draw bows. Also, while the mud was present in the movie, in real life it was so deep knights were literally drowning in it. Like, hundreds of them, just from falling over and not being able to stand back up. Go watch Tod Cutler’s videos, how a longbow arrow practically EXPLODES against heavy armor. It’s a good battle but it sure didn’t have that.
@@headhunter1945 Frenchman detected! (j/k) But seriously, listen to this excerpt from Wikipedia: “The surviving French men-at-arms reached the front of the English line and pushed it back, with the longbowmen on the flanks continuing to shoot at point-blank range. When the archers ran out of arrows, they dropped their bows and, using hatchets, swords, and the mallets they had used to drive their stakes in, attacked the now disordered, fatigued and wounded French men-at-arms massed in front of them. The French could not cope with the thousands of lightly armoured longbowmen assailants (who were much less hindered by the mud and weight of their armour) combined with the English men-at-arms. The impact of thousands of arrows, combined with the slog in heavy armour through the mud, the heat and difficulty breathing in plate armour with the visor down,[85] and the crush of their numbers, meant the French men-at-arms could "scarcely lift their weapons" when they finally engaged the English line.[86] The exhausted French men-at-arms were unable to get up after being knocked to the ground by the English. “ I’m just saying, there were no point-blank longbow shots in the movie.
@@headhunter1945 Todd's Workshop is aligned with and overseen by Tobias Capwell, a US medievalist warfare historian and curator of Arms and Armour at the Wallace Collection in London.
Amazing video. Congrats on this video going viral! Over a million views ten days in! You should do a bunch of these types of fight breakdowns/shot analysis. Amazing stuff.
Great video only nitpick and it’s a very small nitpick. Is for the star wars example you picked the worst example. That duel is great and evey swing is a plausibly aimed just a little stylish. The prequels do duels relitly well compared the rest of the series the sequels especially have horrible fight scenes, where the attackers swing at the ground or empty space or do some stupid flurry. Great video regardless tho, very informative
I felt kinda dirty putting in The Duel of Fates because it is so much better than the choreography in the OT and ST. We do have a video planned on Nick Gillard & Ray Park's work in SLEEPY HOLLOW - because it's just really *fun*.
That was excellent. I am glad to find someone who appreciates and analyses both the fight choreography and the cinematography. Your other videos look interesting as well so I'll be giving them a watch.
So many of these UA-cam analysis videos break down to: "look at how many historical inaccuracies I was able to find in this scene."
I love that you took the time to contextualise why things are choreographed and shot in certain ways to aid storytelling, convey emotion or drive a narrative whether or not it was 100% accurate.
That's our vibe! We prefer to celebrate things than tear them down.
Yeah tbh when fighting experts ignore that film makers are MAKING A FILM it feels like a really lame gotcha. Like duh, filmmakers KNOW they aren't doing realistic re-enactment. So it's nice to see a fighting expert being a bit more thoughtful about the fight scene, teaching us a bit about the (un)realism and the cinema, and the relationship between the two.
I was just about to echo this. When I watch a movie or show I'm not looking for 100% realism because reality can be boring sometimes, I'm looking for good storytelling that _feels_ real.
I concur, loved the film and love this analysis!
Yeah, it shows that he really knows about this subject and has a passion for it.
great analysis. this scene is so well-staged that even the parts that aren't super martially sound can be explained by both characters being tired and scared
Right?! Its good storytelling first but still grounded in martially sound choreography - or at least visually plausible choreography.
Sometimes, people make mistakes under pressure,
I don't know man. They don't look or move like fighters. Their footwork is weird. The strikes don't look powerful or trained. They look more like flailing. Even the HEMA guy that was demoing the short guard looks way more comfortable and light on his feet without moving. The ground work makes no sense. There's definitely room for improvement. It's cool that they're using book techniques though.
@@rorschach775 when death is knocking at your door, technique goes out the window and you are relying on instinct. both fighters are young and relatively inexperienced, while extensively trained, fighting to the death is likely quite unnerving for them still.
@alecpitts6843 not true. You fall back on training when you panic. If you do a thing so often that it becomes second nature, then that becomes the thing you do. And if they had trained they would have done these lunges thousands of times.
I just love that the armor in this movie works. I hate how so many movies have armor basically made out of butter. Here, he has to wear his opponent down and get him under the armor for a killing blow. The armor works.
It's something I've come to get really annoyed by in videogames as well.
Most games have lots of character stats for players and enemies to make them vastly different in combat power. Don't make armor mostly decorative. Use it as part of the game balance.
@@Yora21 you're gonna love kingdom come deliverance, armor actually matters
@@TimePlayerOfficial Man that game is so fricking good in that aspect.
The thing that doesn't work is Chalamet's light frame being in that heavy armor. He will be worn out in 2 swings if this was for real. At the end of the fight Hal should be obviously more exhausted.
@@TimePlayerOfficialI spent only 100 hours on my first playthrough, it could’ve been way more if I actually 100% it but it was an amazing game.
Something else I like alot here is that they KEEP THEIR HELMETS ON. Most Hollywood movies would insist on the visors going up or no helmets so their actors can emote, at the cost of realism and believability. Them keeping and using their armor correctly just adds so much here.
I actually question the visors going down. Visors greatly, greatly, limit visibility and outside of sport combat I am not sure this what combatants would actually do.
@@Crotalus206 the visors might limit visibility but it does make it a lot easier for the director to swap out the actors for professional stuntmen
@@Crotalus206 Are you trying to say that if someone had a visor on their helmet, the specificly wouldnt or shouldnt use it when fighting? And at what point are you going to consider why the visor is there in the first place? Ridiculous
@@drpebbs Yes exactly. In my experience, visors massively limit vision and breathing. Like it's fucking terrible, I'm speaking from experience, especially this style of helmet they are wearing.
Hollywood has a fuckin phobia of faceless characters, it's weird
What I like the most about this scene is how you can really feel them get tired - not just the heavy breathing, but also how they stumble around and flail their swords after the first grappling part.
I also liked the takedown - instead of just a quick, clean, devastating throw, he had to run the other guy down until he finally fell, not too dramatically either.
Grappling while nearly naked is TIRING. I can't imagine how exhausting it would be with a full set of plate, in padded cloth, while also trying to punch and smash your opponent's head in.
I really appreciate the approach here, instead of just relentlessly criticizing every tactical mistake, looking for the most realistic move in any situation, you're looking at it as a scene from a movie. You really put in the work to demonstrate that every break from traditional combat is sold by the pacing, cinematography, and acting, instead of hinging your criticism entirely the scene's choreography. I really enjoy this kind of holistic criticism.
Can't agree more. Breaking down scenes like this is benefited greatly when the analysis is informed by both historical knowledge, and knowledge of cinematography. They showed the Inigo v Wesley fight for a sec from Princess Bride, and despite having seen numerous others, I'd love to see a video like this on that fight from these guys.
@@mikehorne4053 great idea! I know some excellent rapier fencers so I’ll rope them in for some extra context.
I'd say it's more realistic, too. In an actual fight, with your life on the line, you're not going to make every move perfectly. You're not going to precisely parry an attack to then lead into a perfect killing blow. You're going to make mistakes. Critiquing it like this is more realistic than just going "This move was unrealistic because you could do this" It's the heat of battle so criticizing it to perfection is just unfair.
Also I feel like people tend to be overly critical of tactically bad plays. People make mistakes all the time in fights, people get lazy, hurt, distracted, a glove can get caught on some other piece of kit, a strap is rubbing the wrong way, crick in your back, etc. There's a million reasons why someone might do something that looks a bit weird or isn't perfectly by the book and that I think can forgive a lot of the slightly ahistorical 'movie behaviors' people do in choreographed fights
what i absolutely love is the exhaustion we see in the two. too often, extended melees scenes feature people fighting as if they've only just started, even if they've been going for like 20 minutes, as seen in movies like the LOTR trilogy. In this scene and in the battle later on, it very quickly descends into exhausted people who barely have the strength left to stand, hitting each other with blows that don't even have the force to bounce off.
Is this not before the battle. They choose champions instead of having the battle?
to be fair with LOTR, it's fantasy even aregorn isn't a regular human hes a race that lives for hundreds of years so its hard to get a gauge on stamina when dealing with mythical beings
@@TtotheCizzel he's talking about another battle later in the movie
Madafaka goes " gnooo 😭😭😭 they have infinite stamina in movies "
Takes lotr as an example, which is a fantasy 🤦🤦🤦
I can imagine how surprised you would bee, when you will see that in lort they have dragons and magical creatures 😂😂😂.
That's why the " humans " are op as well. We are no talking about normal medieval humans. They are special as well, or they would have never survived the middle earth to begin with. So that's such a dumb example.
God, I love how they are actually trying to hit each other rather than just trying to clang their swords together.
They probably aren't all that afraid to hit each other. I mean I assume the swords are dull and they look like they are wearing actual armor.
Why shouldn't they fully commit to smacking each other with their swords. I like to think they had a field day to do just that.
@@onlyoneball6256 I mean, I have to agree, it’s two guys on a Hollywood set so they try their best to make it believable. However in terms of sword fighting in cinema this is way more accurate than 99% of movies. I don’t care if you are in the best shape ever, 90 minutes of fighting is going to leave you exhausted. I am not a tough guy or a bad ass… I’ve only been in a few fights in my life and after about 60 seconds I’m spent. I literally don’t have the energy to keep going and the other guy kick my ass. I have also won fights by ending them early but I just got lucky. The other guy, telegraphed his haymaker like an idiot. I don’t know how to fight but this dude was even more inept. I hate fighting and I’m not tough. I would rather connect with someone about our favorite Science Fiction books. But I saw his fist coming from a mile away. Even as wimpy as I am, (it’s ok I’m a nerd I don’t train to fight) the fool never had a chance. I saw him coming from a mile away. I sat there and pretended that I did not see him winding up to launch a haymaker at my face. He tried to hit on my girlfriend, and I told him to fuck off. he didn’t like that so he chose to try to hit me in the face. It’s important to pretend like you are weak and not ready for a fight. it gives your opponent a false sense of security. The dude swung at me. I pretended like I wasn’t aware of him. But within about five seconds I ducked his fist, flipped him around and hit him HARD in the kidney and took him to the ground pounding his face. That bar now has a picture of him labeled “do not serve”. They also have a picture of me! “Treat this man well, he’s a good dude!” I hate fighting. I don’t know how to fight. I’m just your average dude who wants to live his life in peace and never fight anyone. I want to go out on the town with my girlfriend and make friends with everyone. I don’t have an attitude problem. I just want to live a peaceful life full of love. But if somebody wants to fuck with my piece of mind? Yeah I’m not a trained fighter, but I’m not a weak man. I am a man of discipline. I am a measured man in my words and actions. I am an adult. I will do anything to solve any problem using my words: but if somebody makes it impossible to reason with using words, I don’t have to be a trained fighter. I don’t care how big you are. If you cross that line, I might end up in the hospital, trying to fight you… And I don’t care. If I see a man who weighs 100 pounds more than me hit his woman… Yeah, I will get beat up. He is probably capable of killing me. I don’t care. If I see him hit a woman, I’m no longer concerned for my own well-being. I’ve had the misfortune of eating a well done steak. Shame, I prefer, medium rare! The human throat is as rare as it comes. I’m a bit scream about blood. Not a fan. But there is no amount of steroids that makes a man big enough to have someone bite them on the throat HARD. If I can eat a well done steak, your throat is easy. No amount of steroids and bodybuilding can protect your throat. And if I can get close enough to bite? You’re dead. I have no problem fighting Dirty if I am defending myself or anyone I care about. I will bite and scratch and use every dirty tactic at my disposal: because I did not start this. But I will finish it. I am a pretty decent dude and I don’t want this. But there have been times when I felt threatened So I went to the bathroom to pocket a metal toilet paper holder… just in case. A lot of bars are probably wondering what happened to their metal toilet paper handle. I took it. It was me. I took it because it was hard metal. Just in case I had to defend myself. It’s me… I took it: I also pocket shot glasses at bars just in case. I don’t want to get in a fight with anyone, but if somebody starts one? I’m going to walk out of that bar. And the other guy will be leaving in an ambulance. That’s only if I’m kind. Otherwise he’s leaving in a hearse.
@@onlyoneball6256 I think you missed my point… Many swordfights in movies are completely unrealistic because the people fighting are spending more time hitting the other person’s sword than actually trying to hit the other person. I was saying it was refreshing because this looks like actual combat.
@@mattlawson714 My point is that it is easier for them to do this because of their armor. I understood what you said I was just adding onto it. Also you should check out the final duel scene from the MacBeth movie if you want another fairly good fight scene where they get exhausted. Theres a video like this one that goes over it, not by the same guy tho.
@@onlyoneball6256 sorry if I came off as rude. My bad! Thanks for the recommendation, I will definitely check that out.
Anyone else find it funny a guy named CHALIMET played the king of England and a guy named PATTINSON played the Dauphin? History is not without a sense of irony
Haha, that's a great catch! :D
Chalamet*
Well for Chalamet-Henry connection it makes sense since the kings of England at that time were descended from French nobility and still spoke French for centuries after becoming kings of England. Henry IV and V were the first to use English in court in an official capacity though.
Almost as silly as an English king named Plantagenet, can you imagine?
This is not 'history', it's just a film, played by actors. 🙄
The thing I love most about this fight is till how exhausting it is. There’s a moment in which they both just take a break to catch their breath while on the ground.
People simply do not get how exhausting a spar is, imagine a full fight!
I love that you can hear the armor and their frantic breathing. It gives a lot more weight and realism to the fight. I also love the part where Hal trips Percy. It’s such a small thing that could actually happen in combat, a small mistake that leads to defeat
I recall it happening at Troy as well, by all accounts.
@tileux he's not talking about the purposeful takedown that leads to the initial ground fight, but the trip which creates the last grappling exchange. Hal falls down and his foot happens to trip Percy by accident. It's dumb luck, and therefore realistic.
Not real enough. The stab with the dagger resulted in a slight "Agh...", no blood spurting, no scream, no gurgling.
@@spankyjeffro5320 That stuff happens in cheesy movies. IRL blood doesn’t gush out like a geyser and you don’t scream out when your throat is full of liquid. He probably got stabbed through the jugular and lost consciousness in a few seconds so he didn’t really have time to react at all
I loved how out of breath and tired they were after the first few exchanges. I have to imagine it was exhausting fighting in full plate armor, even for short bouts and you'd probably take space to get time to recover.
This is the modern medieval era movie that felt the realest that I've ever seen.
Then you’d be sorely mistaken from a historical context POV. Sure the costumes, sets and fight scenes are well performed and executed, giving a sense of accuracy but this is based off Shakespeares narrative who is agreed by scholars to have been significantly dramatised. The duel against hotspur never happened, he died in battle. The duel against Charles VII never happened , agincourt did not unfold like that. Movie is biased and pro English by the desperate attempts at making the dauphin seem unlikeable for no reason. There was no character named Falstaff, was added here with no purpose. The movie is accurate on a micro, but on a macro, it’s as historically accurate as Frozen…
@@clemsi7596
what would you recommend? not a rhetorical question, i’m just curious
@@username-yc3bdOutlaw King, hands down. The armor could have been a little bit better in just a couple of aspects--the coifs and aventails could have been more closely fitted and some of the English knights have visors and plate arm protection (Edward II has spaulders and vambraces, that's it) some decades too early. But.... yeah, that's still pretty fucking stellar as movies go. The swordplay leaves a lot to be desired, sadly, but its easily one of the most historically accurate films out there.
@@clemsi7596 to further add to the historical inaccuracy, the siege depicted in the film has the English use trebuchets to break the walls of the French castle and force their surrender… in reality, they used cannons as the main siege weapon of the day, and the English had been using cannonades and handgonnes for a good 60 years by that point in open combat. Though it’s somewhat understandable why they used Trebuchets, as it’s more “medieval” to a modern audience.
Sounds like I'm ging to be watching The Outlaw King sometime soon.
Big respect to the fact you understand the cinematic viability of certain decisions. People usually nitpick for hours at historical inaccuracies without understanding anything about filmmaking and how boring their super realistic vision would be. That doesn't seem to be the case with this channel.
And those people seem to believe they are being so incredibly clever while doing it, discovering "flaws" that the filmmakers did not even know about!
The only way to make a "realistic fight" interesting (typically) is to have all the drama be in the build up. Like in old kurasawa movies with unarmoured samurai in mortal combat, there's a lot of circling, staring, a few grip adjustments, the spectators become as silent as death and then in a massive exlosive flurry of at most three swings the whole things over and either one or both combatents are gravely wounded
@@Eerik_Arvonen The filmmakers *don't* know about the flaws, how could they? Adorea Olomouc (youtube channel name) makes videos with better choreography drawn straight from historical technique with a budget far lower than that of a big-ticket movie. The difference is that the people that make their choreography actually studied the historical martial arts being depicted.
@@Eerik_Arvonen Furthermore, watch Dequitem if you want to see realistic armored fights.
Some people just have no taste and would eat anything... like Arthur Dayne fighting Ned's Guards before the Tower of Joy... it was not only totally unrealistic but also joy-less to watch.
I really like how you not only compare the choreography to real combat, but also explain why the choreography is done the way it is, including safety considerations for the actors.
7:18 WTF THAT WAS BRUTAL
Its ridiculous.
I totally wasnt prepared for that that was incredible
The takedown heard 'round the HEMA world. While it doesn't look like it, the floor was padded. The guy holding the drink is a good friend and former student of mine. It was a pretty hard throw, and harder than I'd like to see in HEMA tournaments since there are swords waving around. I've been thrown harder than that in Judo, and while it's not pleasant, I don't recall the person being thrown sustaining any injuries. It can certainly knock the wind out of you! If I were the ref, I'd give the fighter a warning. HEMA wrestling is not at the level it should be, which I am trying to rectify in my own small way with my own students.
History vs choreography aside, a fight is a fight. Mistakes happen. Improvisation happens. Anger and grappling and whatever dirty things go down so that one person can survive. I think this scene really gets that across and the details you point out through the video as to the historic accuracy of it just make it even better of a scene.
Actors got to get paid, and draw crowds; its a money business.
Aye man, im not a sword fighting or historical combat fan what so ever but when the video ended I was surprised 11min went by that quick, so even for me this kept me entertained, loved the insights into everything and appreciate you keeping it simple enough I could understand everything with 0 knowledge about it. Keep it up man, ill keep an eye out for your stuff.
huge respect for not just criticizing the inaccuracies but also understanding why they might be inaccurate and even acknowledging and praising even when the film sacrifices some realism in favor of making another part of the film better. Really good analysis
inaccuracies*
@@eisaatana96 ironic lol
As a 30 year Hollywood editor I appreciate your appreciation.
What programs do you use in your profession?
@@tappajaav I used Avid film composer almost exclusively. A little Final Cut Pro. Before that I cut on Grass Valley video editing systems and before that I cut on actual film using moviola and KEM machines.
Great work on the analysis. I see a lot of HEMAtubers/swordsmen approach every movie as if they were actually trying to kill one another, instead of being actors. The negativity gets really old and eventually just turns into an overblown hatefest. Glad to see a refreshing interpretation done by you.
Thanks for enjoying the positivity!
For better or worse, we're not a hema channel, we're a filmmaking channel where one of us does hema.
I don't want to be a Star wars nerd, but I think the reason that there's so much blocking in Star wars lightsaber duels is that the majority of the trainers are Force sensitive and can predict what is coming to an extent so it ends up with a lot of blocking until one of the makes a mistake that the other takes advantage of
He didn't have a problem with blocking itself. The issue he was referring to is the habit many fight scenes (in any movie) have where the characters attack the other character's weapon instead of the person holding it
In real combat sometimes you attack the weapon but mostly you want to attack the person. Star Wars had a lot of 'swing straight at the other guy's lightsaber instead of trying to swing on the guy' in a few fights
To be fair, the Duel of Fates is undoubtedly the best lightsaber battle in live action Star Wars :) I shouldn't have picked on it! :)
(The best light sabre duel is Obi Wan and Darth Maul's rematch in Clone Wars. It's sublime).
If you watch the trajectory of a lot of swings in the Star Wars fights, they rent aiming at their opponent. That’s what he means. People blocking attacks is fine.
@@_shotzeroBest soundtrack too.
"I don't want to be a Star wars nerd..." But you are going to be, regardless. It's OK, we're all well used to the nerdiness of Star Wars nerbs by now. Trust me. 🙄
As someone with 7+ years of HEMA experience (mainly Fiore), this is PERFECT HEMA content. This is exactly what I am looking for and love to see. Keep this kind of stuff up!
Glad it was helpful! We aren’t just a HEMA channel but clearly there’s a hunger for these kind of videos so expect more!!
Would be interesting if @scholagladiatoria or @Skallagrim were to comment on this from the expert standpoint.
So basically a battle scene that combines actual historical accurate combat with things that you cant prevent, such as exhaustation, grapling, and overall things that would happen in an actual fight, so cool!! :D
7:21 that takedown was insane!
loved the analysis of this video definitely subscribing.
Ignoring this movie and thinking about reality: Imagine being an experienced soldier of multiple years watching children play swords for your country
That's just like modern Britain and having real-life nobility not wanting the citizenry to have guns and people playing along, or the various forms of insanity in other countries. Honestly, most countries have some insane shared belief or other.
True, but that means these men get to go home, and not have to be on that side of the blade. Not easy necessarily, but you have better chance at home than the battlefield.
@@HateBear-realthat sort of thing was decided by the middle class and not the nobility.
When did that actually happen in reality
Lol, simply wrong. It was always those in power that have pushed for the disarming of the people.
I'm from the school of historical audience. No way the guys watching wouldn't back the fk up when steel is swinging a few paces away lol
I'm from the school of commercial construction, and you would not BELIVE the amount of life threatening near misses from equipment, both vehicular and handheld, that have almost shorn a limb from some guy in a group of tradesmen not moving away because it would read to everyone as them being 'scared and 'a pussy'. I have to imagine the same can be said among the retinue we see in the scene
this might also be just me but my idiot brain is often very late sensing danger. I've nearly been hit by a car and not react to it until the adrenaline hit me minutes later. I've laughed about nearly being tipped out of suspended scaffolding like 9 floors up, only to feel my heart suddenly pounding out of my chest much later. My dumb ass would've definitely just stood there like that lol
True, this is why whenever there is a fight between two guys on a night out, everyone around them makes a wide circle and says "Woah, keep your distance, lads. This is a duel between noble adversaries and for us to become involved would be a dishonour both to ourselves and the ancient rite of combat."
@@ElcoreThat was amazing. Thank you
I study and coach HEMA and honestly, you kinda get used to it. Obviously we're not getting dangerously close to spars but its not uncommon when judging or coaching to stand a few feet away from an active spar. Because the attacks aren't coming at you they're relatively safe. That and there's far less gigantic, overly committed swings than choreography shows.
I just wish they'd had portrayed the Battle of Agincourt more accurately. The biggest takeaway European militaries got from the battle was how decisive English longbows and bad weather could be. The French were forced into the fight as a knee jerk reaction to a volley of English arrows, and their cavalry was stopped by mud and pointed stakes pounded in by English archers, funneling the French, who were already being funneled by terrain, into the English infantry and flaking fire from enlish archers. And when the infantry started to falter the archers rushed into the melee. The battle in the movie was just a moshpit
Yeah, well to be honest, the film was based on a Shakespeare play. As far as I know the Dauphin isn't even at Agincourt.
@modest_spice6083 the fictitious French prince said it was at agincourt
@@tylerbryanhead Historically the Dauphin isn't at Agincourt, I mean. And it's pointless to ask for historical realism in the film since it's based on a play.
I've not seen any evidence that everyone in Europe was taking notes from Agincourt.
In fact the Battle Of The Golden Spurs saw the guildsmen doing the same: Making the knights charge across mashy terrain, catching it into a pike line, then dispatching them.
That was 1302, well ahead of 1415.
Now that (and the Erfgooier ambush to free Floris V) was stuff that had people taking notes, as commoners could reliably defeat nobles.
"Biggest takeaway?" Funny how longbows were absolutely trampled into the ground at Patay by a much smaller force. And, oh, the English lost the war. And then warfare in Europe didn't change all that much until pike and shot, despite all the noise from anglophiles. It's almost like the English spent 100 years losing a war they started and need to focus on some statistical flukes to not be ashamed.
Really good, layered analysis regarding both the realistic and cinematic sides of choreographed fights.
Appreciate the kind words!
I love that you acknowledge the moments in this scene that are done for cinematic effect that they get away with, but you do so without bashing the movie for being a movie. That's a really nice change in energy, and I like the positivity, even for something I haven't seen before.
I really love how you give context that this is a movie and is for an audience and allow it to give leniency🙌🏽
Can we just take a moment and really soak in how brutal close/single combat was in these days? Not to mention anything other than nobles/highborn wouldn't be really wearing much armor, much less wielding a nice castle forged sword. The most a lowborn could hope for might be a gambeson with a helmet of some sort, so the first unchecked thrust or cut would likely end the fight unless it was a glancing blow. I remember watching a long documentary on the Battle of Towton and the horrific wounds found on the skeletons of the casualties. That was a real eye opener for me. Very cool breakdown by someone with actual swordplay experience, thanks for the great video!
Hmm going into battle knowing the other guys gonna try to skewer you in a tender part 😬
"the first unchecked thrust or cut would likely end the fight" -- I think you underestimate how hard it is to quickly kill a human. Also, a gambeson and helmet provided a decent level of protection to the vitals, at least against spears and swords.
It's brutal these days too.
@@jrd33 Yes and no... if you got stabbed, would you keep trying to fight knowing that you'd just get stabbed again, or drop away and hope your buds would handle it?
@@colbyboucher6391 In the heat of battle, fired up by adrenaline and fear, I an not sure how often you would be making decisions rationally. Often people injured in a fight don't even realize they've been hit until they see the blood. But others are out of the fight from a minor wound, so I guess it's hard to generalize.
Seeing this first fight with half-sword stuff, bashing with the pommel, the fist fighting and wrestling, and the finish with the dagger in the gap in the armor, I knew I was going to like the movie.
I think the disarming strike was aiming at Hal's hand not the sword in which case dropping the sword makes sense, Hostpur nearly cut his hand off! It's hard to see with the blur though and I could easily be mistaken. It's also possible Hal simply had a weakened grip upon his sword after being knocked over.
This fight had me excited for the rest of the film and I was so disappointed by the battle later on. ):
To me it looked like Hal didn't have a great grip on it, but is still bringing it up for defense. Hotspur catches it and it's just enough torque to pop it out of Hal's hand, but the forward movement is still there so the sword moves forward. I've lost a sword in similar way (but it was tied to my finger at the time, so I was able to recover - SCA vs HEMA.. very different, but I think the physics still make sense here.. )
@@fighterguystudios
That makes more sense to me
Felt it was more of a 'Drop it'/throw it in favor of steadying his fall.He both made his hand avalible to easier steady himself as he fell backward, and got it out of the way so he didn't fall on it. In the spur of the moment i would say it seemed to make more sense drop his long sword as he was getting 'cornered' and falling to steady himself, and reach for his shorter back-up weapon.
I think it is because the visibility is limited in the armor and he knew he's hand was vulnerable so he dropped the sword without looking, knowing it was going to be hit if he didn't do anything. If he tried to hold on to the sword it may have been to slow to react. He was also falling and was focused and how he was going to fall and how to react to the strike on his vulnerable hand. In this sense, he had to prioritize between falling safely and not incuring an injury to his hand or hold on to the sword and potentially hurt his hand. Either way he would have to get up while holding the sword which would have been slower so he just gave up to be a step ahead. You can see he trips the other opponent later when he falls backwards to surprise him and stab him with the dagger.
Good analysis!
What an amazing video, you articulate your points well and added rational conclusions of why they did certain things that is pretty rare to see and even more to see it done so professionally and politely.
This is probably my favorite medieval fight scenes of all time. They really capture the chaotic and messy nature of what a real fight looks like. Especially showing how exhausted they are only after a minute or two of fighting. I’ve seen so many YT channels that focus on HEMA or historical battles criticize that this movie is so inaccurate to what a medieval fight would look like because they would have done X move and been so much better trained…except when you actually see fights in real life, even with well trained fighters, they are incredibly messy and people are always making mistakes. Also, as long as the fighters are pretty evenly matched, exhaustion is probably one of the biggest factors in who actually wins a fight. Your stamina changes drastically when you’ve got a ton of adrenaline pumping thru your system and you stop breathing properly.
Anyways, love this movie and hope the Edgerton brothers do more.
I agree. In the end, it is all speculation. It can be informed speculation drawing on the sources we have but we don't know what what we don't know.
_fighter plunges dagger into opponent's throat_
Shot Zero: This is so good *heavy breathing*
i mean....
Probably one of the best Netflix originals they've ever released. Great breakdown, will have to rewatch this one soon
The King fuckin rocks, basically Chalamet’s audition for Paul Atreides
This is some quality analysis! First off, I'm always happy to see The King get a bit more love, I wouldn't say it's SUPER underappreciated, but I think people brushed it off a bit quick. Second, love that you go at this with multiple lenses, really gives us a full view. Not just the historical/technical fighting side but also story/shot. Can't wait to check out more from this channel!
Well said!
Was in a taekwondo tournament at 14. It's 3 minutes of constant kicking. If you ask the average person to kick nonstop for 10 seconds its tiring. Was beyond exhausted at end of tournament. You train for how to fight while tired actually in MMA.
VERY GREAT INTRODUCTION TO CHANNEL, Immediately subbed. Love how u put in your own experience into the video with some footage!
When i put this up I thought nobody would watch it, so freaking glad I cherry picked the bits where I don't look like a total idiot! hahaha.
@@_shotzeroadds great context to what youre descirbing in a real context. Definitely recommend more cutaways to real life examples like that. Great vid. Hope your channel balloons after the exposure its getting. Want to see more lol.
Great review - one thing I like about this fight as well is it sets up/foreshadows the Battle of Agincourt in it's initial knightly poise and classical warfare with longswords giving way to the brutal reality of tripping your opponent and fighting tooth and nail on the floor with a short weapon to achieve victory.
Worst part of the film is that they neither stayed true to Shakespeare and made a nice film, not stayed true to history and made a great film, instead choosing to portray a nonsense that is neither a rendition of the play nor a historical account, with random moshpit battle instead of Agincourt. We have multiple accounts of how that battle transpired, it would be great visually, but no instead this weird thing they made is an embarrassment.
I wonder why they wouldn't start with dagger in the first place if you need to takedown your opponent and find gap in armor
@@Fera-gr5mmI would think that ideally the battle be decided at a distance, close combat with the dagger just feels more dangerous for both parties. Parries are a lot more difficult with daggers.
As a 3D animator student I find it fascinating trying to get as into the line, between realism and spectacle. It's really hard to make something visually entertaining, and at the same time make it somewhat in a realistic sense, believable. One of the main things besides technique I think is often overlooked in entertainment, is the actual feel of fear from both parties when it comes to a battle to the death, The duelists comes to mind on that first fighting scene, where you can see even the way that they fight, the confidence and experience of one fighter, and the ineptitude of the other, but on both sides you can feel they know they are playing with fire.
Saw this movie a few years ago and I was surprised at how good it was for being a Netflix original (at least I remember it being one, now I'm not sure).
Love the frame by frame, breaking down shot by shot. Y'all do some good work, look forward to watching more.
It is both a Netflix original and a very good film! Thanks for checking out the video!
I still remember just turning this movie on one night randomly on netflix expecting something mediocre, and instead finding gold. This is genuinely one of my favorite movies to rewatch. Excellent video!
This movie had great weight to it, something so many movies especially medieval movies often miss
The King is definitely top 3 movies set in medieval Europe for me. Such great acting, photography, and script. Really a modern day classic if you ask me.
this is the first time i've seen your channel, and i have to say i'm impressed, for the same reasons that most of the other comments point out. i think i'll be checking out more of your videos :)
I never been much into sword fights for the longest time, but after watching this video essay about how the movie has one of the better choreography of almost accurate combat has made me subbed you. The amount of detail that you displayed both from the movie and your own demonstration has levitate my appreciation the art so much more. Kudos
Your analysis is very detailed and nuanced, you don't just talk about the historical accuracy, but also mention the reason why most fights are portrayed the way they are in media, I like that a lot
I understood at the end why you have a unique focus on the cinematographic style, that's the focus of your channel haha
Chalamet's performance at 0:30 into this is so good, his delivery to challenge Hotspur is not arrogance as you so often see in movies, you see this great mixture of mental exhaustion, reluctance, stress, and fear on his face. He knows he has a good chance at dying in the duel.
The King was an amazing movie, and it really highlights how "unglamorous" fighting in full armor would actually be.
Its less "Knights in Shining armor riding into the sunset" and far more "Warriors fighting a war to the bloody end"
swordplay has always interested me, i am now interested even more. thank you.
One of the best movie fights & the best breakdown of a duel Ive watched, prefect balance of historical accuracy while not downplaying the necessary inclusion of 'movie fight' tropes, well done sir 👍
Thank you.
Our next video (finally!) is on the last duel. And it’s fascinating cause I’m once again collaborating with Gindi on it and he’s like “nah this is terrible” and I’m like “yeah but movies!” So hope you stick around!
I really liked this movie and I loved the fight scenes. They were absolutely brutal and despite being obviously choreographed in the duel where some of the "swinging at the sword" occurs, most of it was incredibly believable. I loved this movie quite a lot. Love that you are pointing out the "plausible" ideas and actions in the movie instead of pointing out hte mistake.
First time I've seen really believable swordplay in cinema. I kinda feel like i need to see this movie now.
Incredible detail in this video, thank you
Glad you liked it!
"The headbutt probably wouldn't do very much through the armor"
This is incorrect. The headbutt wouldn't do much damage to the opponent's face, but a good headbutt is about concussing the enemy by accelerating their head so their brain hits the inside of their skull, not breaking their nose. As you pointed out, Hal can be see recoiling in the following cut, so he was not protected from this effect. It's about follow through, not impact.
I REALLY appreciate your treatment of this fight, particularly the balance between historical validity and the necessity to make certain things digestible to the audience.
I appreciate this breakdown as well. As someone who appreciates accuracy this really makes me want to watch this film as I have never seen it. I really like at 8:20 when Hal has Hotspurs back Hotspur is pulling down on his visor to prevent Hal from opening it. It shows great attention to detail and how when you can’t see what your opponent is doing defending is always on your mind. This is a great bit of movie making. Thanks for sharing!
I can say one of the few netflix exclusive produced gems of a movie. The KIng is a fantastic movie.
One thing you didn't mention that was great was the fact that at the end of the fight Hal was clearly exhausted. He laid down on his opponent and caught his breath. No springing up as fresh as a daisy.
A small but powerful detail that makes it more real
It makes it very human, I agree! We're working on our THE LAST DUEL video now (which probably won't come out till August) and there's some behind the scene footage of Ridley Scott saying to Jodie Cormer something like: "your fate depends on which of these middle aged men get tired first".
Stamina is such an important factor.
I stumbled across this film by accident and having been involved in historical martial arts for much of my childhood was thoroughly impressed.
I knew nothing about this movie when i pressed play. I didn't even know it existed. I was blown away. Probably my fave movie of all time. First movie I've ever watched again right after it ended.
If modern wars were settled like this, leader vs. leader in a death match, there would be no need to send young, naive boys into the battlefield.
But then we wouldn't have any cool fps games to recruit them 😢
Welcome to egalitarian world
Think that through for a second. Would the citizens of a nation give up fighting just because their leader lost a duel? Believe it or not, wars are fought by nations of people, seriously committed, not the cartoon trope of two arrogant leaders.
Nah, in most wars one side is full of men forced to protect their country vs the other side who is forced to attack said men. Propaganda's a hell of a drug, but sometimes the threat of being executed works well enough for a man to slay his own kind.
Vietnam? Iraq? Korea? Yemen? Afghanistan? Somalia? Libya? Niger? Syria? Yes.
Stellar break down. Really appreciate your work here
many modern swordsman and fenceman often forget that while yes using long swords quick with tiny thrusts and cuts is effective its only effective against non armored opponents while yeah he couldve tapped the back of hals head it wouldnt have done anyhting due to the helmet and chainmail so it just wouldve been wasted movement
Absolutely gets a subscription, just for finally putting what I've thought about the fight breakdowns into words. Visually plausible. That headbutt would do nothing irl, but even as a hema practitioner who knows that, as a viewer i'm still fully convinced by it in the moment. I also appreciate that you take into consideration that characters making a martial mistake, such as over-parrying, is totally plausible. Its hard not to over-parry when a big point is coming at your face during hema, so I can only imagine what it's like in real combat.
Thanks mate. A sound break-down with grown up acknowledgement of what the piece we're watching actually IS. Stage (or screen) Combat done properly has a lot of moving parts because it has a lot of jobs to do within the story. Great, insightful, useful content. On my first watch -I'll subscribe to your channel. Cheers.
I think what makes this great fight scene is that it adds theatrical elements without making it too theatrical. We can read all the manuscripts and treatises on medieval fighting, and even practice it in HEMA, but I believe that if you had 2 combatants fighting for what they were fighting for, in heavy restrictive armor, the inconsistencies we see are probably more realistic than we think.
We make mistakes under pressure. And while I've never dueled someone to the death, I can imagine that it makes that pressure pretty intense!
Holy shit wasn't expecting this level of content with your amount of subs. You deserve success my man! Here's a sub :) Continue the good work!
Thank you!
God. It feels wrong thats such a brutal scene. It looks like they're actually trying to kill one another. And when hal wins. Its not pretty its gross. Its almost disturbing. That must've been such a good scene.
Just watched The King for the first time the other day. What impressed me the most was how battles are portrayed as ugly, exhausting, desperate affairs. The film makes its message clear: "war is bloody and soulless." It never glorifies violence and death, not even for cinematic flair, and instead chooses brutal honesty. This duel set the tone for the entire film.
Wonderful reading of the film thanks for sharing!
I love that they both reach exhaustion very quickly, that's not often depicted in cinema or entertainment; that even when you're fighting for your life, a couple minutes of going all out in plate armor would have even a highly conditoned person heaving.
You having said the thing about the visors without hatches leads perfectly into the wresteling scene on the ground at 8:20 , you can see the he holds his visor to prevent it from being opened by his opponent, awesome
Amazing observation! Now I wish I saw it!!
I am reading the "Ill made Knight" (William Gold) Series, written by Chameron Christian, right now and I did not know that Fiore in the book actually is the Fiore referenced here. Learned something new. Good video. I agree, The King was, or rather is, a very good movie.
Fiore is the bomb! I hope this encourages you to pick up a longsword and a dagger!
Cutting as the head butt connects is a shame I feel. It dulls the visual impact. Makes you feel like you blinked and missed it. Its a Western technique. In classical Eastern martial arts films would show it connect, wait a beat, cut and show the impact again.
Yeah, I think they did it for safety. Essentially in the reverse angle they can kinda jerk themselves back (possibly with a wire but who knows) and the cut + sfx sells it.
But yeah, in HK and Eastern action films they'd do a double cut to sell the impact.
lol we've seen the tony zhou videos too, bud
The head didn't connect he was hitting along, hence the cut. Anyway you head butt two helmets before the impact.
Absolutely incredible, detailed assessment, LOVE this.
The Hal kind of throwing his sword away bit, the second to last major action of the fight, strikes me as entirely possible to do in the heat of a truly fatal fight, no matter how much experience one has by that young age. Maybe if you've been fighting for decades and the sword is truly one with your hand, I could see it being hard to believe, but.
On the other hand, The Fifth was obviously trained since youth and seemed to be one of the toughest and most self-motivated kings of the lot, so I suppose it's tough to believe from that viewpoint. Anyway, just some rambling reflections of my own.
Thanks again, awesome vid!!
Thanks mate some great observations. There's some excellent discussion in this (now long) comment thread with others discussing how throwing away the sword may be about balance and other such theories. All which I think are very plausible! Which is awesome, I love being schooled (and that people also want to see the best in the choreography!)
Man, the algorithm really works in mysterious ways. This video is really good but it its about a Shakespeare adaptation that not many people watched. Im very happy for you guys
We're as surprised as you are :)
randomly picked this to watch. was such a good movie
9:35 It looked to me more like he was hitting his hand here, and that would make more sense for where the sword went
The fact that you only have (as of this comment) 343 subscribers is criminal. Exceptional content
No more!!! Thanks for being amongst the first.
Thank you for this insightful breakdown! I also love how well they've managed to bring across the very real danger of becoming fatigued during armored combat. Towards the end they both start grunting and breathing heavily. Paired with the sharp camera work, sound design and editing it all comes together wonderfully.
excellent break down thank you for putting this movie on the map
This is excellent.
I'm gonna watch this movie, thanks for the work.
it's very underrated imo. The movie takes itself seriously but I think it manages to hold up to that.
I like how you consider the choreography/storytelling aspect of the scene and not just complain about the historical accuracy.
If you watch a movie based on Shakespeare play for historical accuracy then you're going to be disappointed! I come for the drama!!
I loved this movie. The scene where they are laying siege and sending off flaming shots from the trebuchets is one of my FAVORITE shots in cinema.
Really enjoyed your analysis of this fight
thanks for reminding me! Great shot!!!
This channel is criminally underrated, I love essay about movie scenes and your attempt at it is precise and unlike anything I’ve ever seen ! Subscribe.
Thank you! Welcome :) There is more to come.
I’m sure this is a very obvious comment but I think another big aspect of this scene is, while these young men have skills beyond there years to be sure, they’re still kids. The wide shots, the sloping shoulders, and the deep panting from both men, adds to the desperation. This is not a fight between to noble princes for the honor of the realm, it’s a brutal scrap between to teenagers to save their people and prove their banner is greater than the other.
The choreography in this movie was great but the final battle was a huge letdown. When it was revealed that the final battle was Agincourt, I was stoked, having watched Tod’s Workshop Arrow vs Armor series. I pictured fully-armored knights knee-deep in the mud, while longbowmen let loose arrow after arrow from like 20 feet away. But it was just a generic melee. The mud was only as bad as a soccer field in the rain.
A single longbow arrow hitting a propped-up set of armor in one of Tod’s Workshop’s videos was more dramatic than that battle, unfortunately.
While it wasn’t very historically accurate: I still think the final battle was really good.
It shows the basic concept of how mud was used during the actual battle. It shows that fighting in mud is bloody exhausting (they do a pretty good show of combat being exhausting in the video’s duel as well).
More importantly: the fight was messy, both figuratively and litterally. Which fit the mood the show was going for after effectively sacrificing a bunch of troops to win the bigger fight
@@daanstrik4293 it was a good battle on its own, it was just generic. This is the battle that demonstrates the power of the longbow and changed how battles were fought for centuries; they had like two volleys from regular-draw bows. Also, while the mud was present in the movie, in real life it was so deep knights were literally drowning in it. Like, hundreds of them, just from falling over and not being able to stand back up.
Go watch Tod Cutler’s videos, how a longbow arrow practically EXPLODES against heavy armor. It’s a good battle but it sure didn’t have that.
@@asmodiusjones9563 I think you might need to revaluate your sources there.
@@headhunter1945 Frenchman detected! (j/k)
But seriously, listen to this excerpt from Wikipedia:
“The surviving French men-at-arms reached the front of the English line and pushed it back, with the longbowmen on the flanks continuing to shoot at point-blank range. When the archers ran out of arrows, they dropped their bows and, using hatchets, swords, and the mallets they had used to drive their stakes in, attacked the now disordered, fatigued and wounded French men-at-arms massed in front of them. The French could not cope with the thousands of lightly armoured longbowmen assailants (who were much less hindered by the mud and weight of their armour) combined with the English men-at-arms. The impact of thousands of arrows, combined with the slog in heavy armour through the mud, the heat and difficulty breathing in plate armour with the visor down,[85] and the crush of their numbers, meant the French men-at-arms could "scarcely lift their weapons" when they finally engaged the English line.[86] The exhausted French men-at-arms were unable to get up after being knocked to the ground by the English. “
I’m just saying, there were no point-blank longbow shots in the movie.
@@headhunter1945 Todd's Workshop is aligned with and overseen by Tobias Capwell, a US medievalist warfare historian and curator of Arms and Armour at the Wallace Collection in London.
10:12 "Gross....but so good!" made me lol
The King was an excellent film. From the acting, music, direction, and story ... so well done. And of course not even nominated.
Amazing video. Congrats on this video going viral! Over a million views ten days in! You should do a bunch of these types of fight breakdowns/shot analysis. Amazing stuff.
That’s the plan! We are doing Total Recall next (not historical but fun cause it connects to fashion in martial arts) then probably the Last Duel!!
This movie doesn’t get enough praise.
Great video only nitpick and it’s a very small nitpick. Is for the star wars example you picked the worst example. That duel is great and evey swing is a plausibly aimed just a little stylish. The prequels do duels relitly well compared the rest of the series the sequels especially have horrible fight scenes, where the attackers swing at the ground or empty space or do some stupid flurry. Great video regardless tho, very informative
I felt kinda dirty putting in The Duel of Fates because it is so much better than the choreography in the OT and ST. We do have a video planned on Nick Gillard & Ray Park's work in SLEEPY HOLLOW - because it's just really *fun*.
That was good but you should add the full fight at full speed at the end. ✌️
Then there would be no video because it would get copywrite struck.
Good suggestion for the next one. I'll see if I can find a link to one already on UA-cam and link to it.
That was excellent. I am glad to find someone who appreciates and analyses both the fight choreography and the cinematography. Your other videos look interesting as well so I'll be giving them a watch.
Please do! And more to come :)
Really enjoyable watch! Critique with a HEMA flavour is way more interesting than looking at movie fights from a purely HEMA perspective.
Thanks! I know way more about filmmaking than I do HEMA so that’s what you’re gonna get.
No shaky cam.