i don't think Mace was unaffected. according to Jedi doctrine, they aren't supposed to strike down an unarmed opponent. Mace was going to strike down Palpatine when he was down (yes technically Palpatine would have used the Force).
in the canon the dark side is only the dark side of that force user, sure it still brings imbalance to the force but Mace Windu mastered himself and uses Vapaad as an outlet for his dark side but maintains his position in the lightside
@@liamdadeppo6113 unfortunatly thats legends, vapaad in canon is about tapping one's personal dark side since the dark side as revealed to yoda during his trip to learn to become a force ghost found out the dark side is technically one's own personal dark side but it is still bringing imbalance to the force, and Mace Windu simply uses Vapaad as an outlet for his dark side since his darkside loves battle and the thrill of the fight. Mace Windu also has mastered himself as much as his lightsaber and force abilities through sheer discipline and willpower. either way Mace Windu is probably the most discipline jedi in the order because he was able to recognize his own dark side and found a way to creatively channel it without falling to it. the canon version of Mace Windu is just as much as a badass as the legends version
Vaapad was meant to combat Dark Side and really the form was perfect in destroying the Sith for their usage of their feeling like Rage, Hatred, and Fear that they often use. If the fight between Palpatine and Windu is true (and not stage by Palpatine) then even powerful Dark Lords could fall prey to the form.
@@ramonfernandomirandanoguei365 I just checked the full quote to be sure; it's not quite that simple and I struggle with it. Lucas didn't say he lost, and the only affirmative statement he made towards that end was that "Windu overpowered him". He also said palpatine "pretended to lose strength and become weak" in order to manipulate Anakin. So he won't say that Windu won, or defeated or was better than Palpatine, and he clearly states that palpatine was feigning weakness. Therefore I think you can't say anything like "Windu beat Palpatine". My personal take on it is that Palpatine was toying with Windu and lost THE DUEL, not THE FIGHT. Especially since he despises lightsabers and only uses them to belittle the Jedi's reliance on them, it looks to me like he was taunting and got dominated for it. When he fought Yoda he abandoned his lightsaber because Yoda was better at dueling, then he dominated with his force abilities. So I think when he did his lightning he was really starting to fight now, but he didn't know about the Vapad so he lost THAT EXCHANGE. I assume he could have come back since Lucas said he was feigning weakness at this moment and he now knows about Windu's secret weapon (and the novelization made it clear that Windu BARELY held off the lightning). Not to mention Palps put everything into his grand plans and was unbelievably strong in manipulating and strategizing. I can definitely believe that he was never in any real danger, even though Windu bested him a couple times in the duel, and he was just doing his best to not kill Windu until Anakin got there.
@@seanh7585 here is the problem by building up palps as this all powerful being why would he need anakin in his plans? Here is my thought process palps had 2 obstacles to his plan windu and Yoda he could beat 1 but be to weakend to beat the other he would need help and anakin slicing windus hand although minuscule was enough because palpatine would get to save more energy for the yoda fight where he spent all his energy and only got to force Yoda into exile
Form 6 with enough training might be what I would choose. A blank slate, to become whatever you do with it, and adapt with you to whoever you need to become.
I would say it has benefit only in the initial stages of a dual when you're feeling the opponent out and then you can switch to a more effective style once you've got him figured out a bit
@@Janine.Najarian True, test the waters and then adjust accordingly. That said, against someone like Master Makashi Dooku, or Master Jemn So Anakin, only so much you can do 😅 even with the weaknesses of their forms.
Mace legitimately defeated Sidious. No matter how powerful Sidious was that dark side energy was redirected through superconducting loop right back to Sidious. Forgot to add : And this was mace first time field testing that superconducting loop. He had to maintain that loop through constant concentration through fight .
Lucas did stay as much and it makes sense that mace would be able to defeat and disarm Sidious in lightasber combat. But palpatine was never in danger as while he was disarmed, mace could never get past Sidious's raw strength in the force.
@@stingywingy1607 Judging by how much the lightning hurt him, while not harming Windu at all, it seems like Windu was just a moment away from actually killing Sidious. The only reason he didn't is that Anakin stopped him, which he never expected, and Sidious displayed clear desperation when calling for help from him, after giving up on trying to use lightning after seeing how ineffective it was. It makes complete sense that he would be considered as the next grand master for the Jedi, with him being almost unbeatable, as well as having the stable mind required to even use such a technique.
@@stingywingy1607 That's false tho Palps was beaten however the movie utterly failed to depict what really happened and instead gave the exact opposite impression.
@@stingywingy1607 sidious raw strength doesn't matter to vaapad. Thst superconducting loop was fueling Mace and at the same time was hurting palpatine. Sidious could not keep that up forever and his body would eventually cave.
Because of vaapad windu will beat 99 percent of sith . For his first time implementing the superconducting loop of vaapad he defeated Sidious. He was able to block sidious lightning at point black range .
@@t.j.armendariz354 yes this is true . He was doing so much that match . He had to maintain constant concentration to main that loop insuring that he wasn't corrupted by that Darkseid energy. Because via the loop that darksuse energy was flowing through him without touching him. Vaapad is ingenious.
@@unkown981 Those that draw on the Dark Side not through passion, but the lack thereof. Cold, detached callousness is a less used method of drawing on the Dark Side. Darth Caedus did this and there's evidence that Dooku did the same.
I just keep thinking of Bane when he trained with Kassim. Learn the forms, but don't rely on them, let the force guide your actions so you can free your mind for broader strategies or for drawing more fully on the dark side. Seems like form 7 was the sith bread and butter
The principal difference between Juyo and Vaapad is that one calls upon the dark side of the Force and the other... Requires being at peace with the dark side. Something most Jedi simply did not understand.
I seriously hope that the sequel to Jedi fallen order let's you choose and master any of the 7 lightsaber forms. Giving potential passives and even different movesets. This video series could be used for inspiration on how they can do that. I also hope they let us explore more force abilities than push or pull. Like unlocking the passive technique of shatterpoint and other such gamechaning force traits/abilities.
Juyo is much like Niman in that it relies on a practicioner to have established swordsmanship skills to truely be a dominating force in battle. Windu and Bulq were Jedi Masters for various reasons but their swordsmanship was prestigious before they worked on Vaapad. With training in the state-of-mind these martial skills were put to expert use to be sure. Thank you for your service, Geetsly's team. Personally I am drawn to the classics of Makashi & Soresu, which I believe would resource the practice of Niman quite well.
In many ways, some have described it as a surrender to the Force and to chaos, to strike at an opponent with such speed and angles of attack that they have difficulty countering it. […] But in surrendering yourself to the Force in such a way reduces your ability to resist its effects should the enemy turn the Force against you. Be on your guard. -Kreia
Before watching this I was under the pretense that Juyo was only used by the Sith, but in reality it was a very risky form that a Jedi could wield, relying on the ever-changing nature of the Force during battle, very unlike the other forms. This video made Form VII, both Juyo and Vaapad, my second favorite, my first being Form VI. If I were to choose a form, I'd choose Form VI, but implement Forms II and VII (both styles) into it alongside all the other forms grouped into Form VI, I'd prefer having as many options as possible, being able to adapt to combat and to the flow of the Force, as well as the occasional fight against a Sith. (And yes I know that seems OP, but it'd require an extreme amount of training to get right, and it's simply just what I would look for in a combat style)
I would choose Vaapad because it’s the closest you can get to being one with the force completely during combat. It’s philosophy of balance and self regulation and acceptance fit with my chose philosophy of Stoicism. I would choose Soresu as a complimentary style to incorporate its movements into the Vaapad style and philosophy.
I'm still a fan of Niman/Jar'kai, something about having two weapons, whether it's a lightsaber, or the force, or a hands and feet, or a blaster appeals to me.
All lightsaber forms can be used with a single dual or double bladed. Vaapad can be used with single or dual blades and also can be used unarmed as well.
@@tonywright9906 my point comes from the fact that Niman/ Jar'kai specializes in it, more so Jar'kai than Niman, but since the two are often referred to as one form my point still holds.
@@trenwilson6613 And that’s cool. I don’t disagree with that fact. Ataru was created before Niman and it has a dual or Jar’Kai variant as well. I also agree with something about having two weapons whether it’s a saber or the Force or good ole hands and feet. Maybe a blaster too,but the style I’m still and forever a fan of and student of is Juyo/Vaapad. With Vaapad sharing none of Juyo’s weaknesses.
@@tonywright9906 for starters Niman is the only one that incorporates the various force powers into it's form, all others merely draw on the force. The other thing that separates Niman from Vapaad is that Vapaad is a combination of all other form where Niman draws from the other lightsaber forms to give it more versatility, then when you add the multi weapons of Jar'Kai forms, and people thought Vapaad was unpredictable. For me this versatility is what attract me to the form.
they aren't feeding off of it, it's more like what Tai-chi claims to be, where you take the energy, and redirect it, you aren't actually interacting with it. That's what made it such a dangerous style, whenever you are going to re-direct something, there is a SMALL tiny moment, where you see it. Jedi who didn't understand how much of a pull the dark side had, saw that mass of "power" and thought "well it wouldn't be bad to enhance my strike just a tad with it" turning it from a redirecting style, into a leeching style. That's what caused their fall. They took in the dark side and tried to use it but not be effected. It's a "look but don't touch" style.
I would have to go with either Sorisu or Vapaad. I have an inner darkness that I cannot contain. So I must either push it aside, or channel it to the task at hand.
The form I would use as a Jedi is form 3. I think there are three principals that the force, self conservation, protection of others, and stop those one how violate the 2 befores ones. As such form 3 is perfect to protect others and my life. However, I may use form 2 to make precised and non lethal cuts as a form to disarm enemies if I can keep my defense. That because in form 3 or the opponent surrender or make a mistake and stuffer at least a serious injury or death, so if the enemy is not a treeth to my defense I will use makashi to disarm him and try to give him a second chance.
So Vapaad is a Philosophy, more than a form based on techniques? Interesting. Form V, VI, and VII are my top 3 favorites, love what they all do and represent.
I’m still sticking with Jar Kai Niiman. I will learn others as needed and maybe hybridize, but I want to see what gets reflected in the mirror of combat.
So Vaapad is allowing the flow of the enemy’s Dark Side and turning it against them without touching it. This actually kinda adds to my theory that Mace Windu went from arresting Sidious to executing him so quickly because Sidious exploited Mace’s use of Vaapad by causing him to absorb too much Dark Side energy when the Sith Lord fired a barrage of Force Lightning. Guess I had a couple of details about how Vaapad works wrong. But my theory still holds water, because maybe there was so much chaotic Dark Side energy that Windu touched the current slightly. Maybe something caused it? It probably wasn’t the thought that Anakin hadn’t listened to him again or the secrets he had that Sidious kept spewing in the midst of it, right?
In order for the loop to be formed, Mace needed to jumpstart the process with his own to begin with. He wasn't really untouched by the dark side, he was only untouched by the dark side from OUTSIDE, as he had his own to content with right from the start. He didn't absorb the darkness from his surroundings simply because he was already pushing out his own.
@@bernardoayres1139 That’s not true. Jedi have killed Sith on many occasions because it’s in combat. Sometimes Jedi feel they’re forced to kill their opponents. But they’ve also arrested them just as much, if not more so, given what Jedi nature is. They don’t fight philosophical wars. The Sith are literally just the pinnacle of evil, their purpose is to openly oppose the Will of the Force and make it bend to their will, to rule the Galaxy and one day the universe. Besides, if they only killed Sith, why did they go to arrest Sidious in the first place? Being a Sith wasn’t even the reason Mace changed decisions, he literally stated why
@@teleportedbreadfor3days I suspect after redirecting SO MUCH darkness from sideous, he realized just what others failed too. Sideous was next-level. if he survived that, he wouldn't fall to anyone outside the chosen one, and was way too slick to just sit in jail. Thus, he was too dangerous to be kept alive.
@@Smol_Eri I wouldn’t say Mace ‘realized’. He was blinded, and the Dark Side blinds people. He resorted to killing Sidious right then and there because he believed there was no other way, when there was and it would have been too risk-prone to kill Sidious without proving to the Galaxy who and what he was and what he had done. The Dark Side doesn’t bring revelation, only damnation in this case. Had Mace arrested Sidious, they could have exposed and his mantled what he had done. Killing him would put the Jedi Order under one hell of a microscope.
6:18-7:06: One reason why I prefer traditional animation for spectacles like this. Live action and CGI animation just can't give such a scene justice and effort.
And thus, this series come to a close. It's been fun, I'd probably be a Form 3 user, but my favorite is Form 6. It was defiantly fun, and it's even given me an idea for a Question of a week I can ask on my Discord server. My friend Michael and I discussed in an early video in this series in the comments about what Forms we think characters from the Owl House would use, so a cool idea would be to ask people what forms they think characters from other franchises would use. And since I posted the links to all these videos on the Star Wars channel on my server(because these videos are great and most of that channel is just links to Geetsly videos because of how good they are) everyone should at least know what I'm talking about.
Aww, thanks for mentioning me... wonder if Amity can harness Vaapad? Willow? Will wait for whatever the next series is. I hope they'll get to talk about unique non-movie Star Wars starcraft like the KotOR-era Aurek-wing, S-250 Chela, and Sith Fighter, the Cloakshape, the Raptor, the Assault Gunboat, the X-83 Twintail, the TIE Predator, and the Missile Boat/King Hell God Starfighter of Death.
@@michaelandreipalon359 No problem, pal. I always saw Amity as a Form 5 user. Willow, I'm not too sure on yet. Luz is obviously Form 6, Gus I see as Form 3, and Hunter as Form 4, but Willow is a tricky one because of how versatile her magic is. Yeah, that would be cool to learn more about other types of starcraft.
@@michaelandreipalon359 It might be a little tricky, but if they took inspiration from something like Dragon Ball Z they might be able to replicate what was said was happening in the novelization.
Form III was always the form that philosophically aligned with the Jedi creed. To give yourself to the force and serve as shield to protect those who could not do so themselves.
So something not discussed that I was hoping to hear about was if there were any lightsiders who did use form 7, particularly juyo, that did not fall to the dark side. Or was the dark side fall rate pretty much 95% with just mace windu.
What form would I use? Well, I would focus on Soresu mostly but shape it a bit with an offensive style. And it’d be important to touch up on other forms just in case. I wanna be an ideal yet my own Jedi.
My favorite is definitely Niman. As I always love some kind of "mage class" So implementing force pushes etc. I would supplemented it with Vaapad but not for its agressive nature but for it's liquid-like movement and implify it into more defense then offence. So my style would rely on waiting on enemy move to counter it, so you may think of form V but not quite, becouse the counters would not rely on sheer strengh and beating the opponent's saber of the way but harmonize with its offence, fluidly letting enemy wepon to slide of a blade or even guide it's blade as I wish to deliver the slash/stab, or handle strike or force push. It would be mine branch of Niman So it would be perfect for duels but would not be weak in a fighting vs multiple opponents either becouse disposal of force pushes etc. Or the fluid defense wich would Let you swiftly swap between your opponents. This style would probably be the best ageinst the users of form V as it would use thier strengh ageinst them and ageinst form VII users as it would harmonize the fluid defense with thier fluid offence and outlast them. This style would be probably on pair with makashi as both styles rely on staying in touch with opponent's blade to guide it of the way so vs form II results are purely skill dependent. And The greates weaknesses could be the Ataru becouse Ataru rely on fast attack from every side and retreat's so thier blades would not stay in touch with my long enough to to direct them so it 's just take away many chances to deliver a fatal blow. But if enemy would use too much jumps and aerobatics I would have a chance to bring them down with force pull. The biggest con of my style is for sure the blasters. As few blasters would be possible to handle as any force users with saber is capable of but barrage of blasterfire would be lethal as the fluid defense is not good for deflecting shots. So my style desperately needs the implementation of at least basics of form III to survive on battlefield. Opening stance would be just niman stance... Saber pointed down on a sight of main hand... mostly Two handed occasional letting of one hand to use force... Okay that's enough xD
3:33 “Ok team we need to explain to the viewers just how powerful and dangerous it is any ideas?” Random guy:” have Kreia explain it to them that will get the message across”
In both the legends and canon descriptions of the form 7 it’s stated that form 7 was built directly off the rejected techniques of shi cho shi cho is also a very aggressive form it self so in theory with continued study and mastery of form 1 you could branch directly off into form 7
That's an interesting question. Unlike Obi-wan who's a good boy scout rooted in the light through & through, Mace had always been walking the line between light & dark to begin with. While i'm not sure if Mace would ever teach Anakin Vaapad, there's no doubt that Anakin would at least learn about his own dark side & how to channel it better, as opposed to Obi-wan who just keeps telling Anakin to shut it out.
@@FalconWindblader He also would have probably not had as much of an emotional attachment to Mace as Obi-wan. Anakin’s fall from grace was always rooted in his personal attachments, those he had with his mother, Padme, Obi-wan, Palpatine, and later Asoka. If he had a mentor he wasn’t as obsessively dedicated to, he probably would have been more emotionally stable.
he would have had to really really adhere to the philosophical aspects of feeling the intense Dark side influenced emotions without allowing them to affect him. not really sure he could do it
Niman is, in my opinion, the most effective style, but it depends on the mindset of the user. If they approach it from the mindset that it's good enough and then focus on other diplomatic duties, then they're going to be weak. However, a user that takes it as far as it can go can adapt it to any situation, as well as fully incorporate other styles, meaning they could train other styles to strengthen parts of Niman.
You either stick with 6 & mold it in your own unique way, or you just do other forms & leave 6 out entirely. 6, without in-depth know-how to use it as a primary form, would simply be useless for anything intense.
I'm currently studying Ataru to have Shii-Cho, Makashii, Ataru and Shien as a Base for studying Juyo, from there I want to find the difference between Juyo,Juyo-Kos and Vapaad to see if I can make any improvements before I move on to Trakata.
Juyo-Kos isn't actually a form though. That's just something a fan came up with himself. And all that is, well it's just a Mix of pretty much every other Lightsaber Form.
@@MultiBigJC SWTOR described Juyo-Kos specifically as a variation on Juyo, obviously to be a failed attempt at completing the Form, implicitly as a Proto-Vapaad. While its canonicity has been revoked, it's still a direction worth investigating, particularly when so many saber rakes are so eager to attempt Vapaad they don't pay enough attention to Juyo.
I enjoyed the series 👍 But which of the forms would I choose? The part of my life which is closest to physical combat, that's soccer. - One has to battle single opp players as well as multiple opp players, too. - I am known for my intuition to guide me on the pitch and a fair manner in combat. Yet chaotic from the surface, but actually with a lot of tactic behind it. - I use my emotions and passion, rage included, yet don't give in to blind hatred for the opp players... and instead use the emotions to become more powerful, have more stamina and be more focused - To overwhelm opp players. As fast as I can... and I enjoy this kind of battle. So, in my case, the forms III, V (both styles) and VII will be my forms of choice. As I do use both feet to play, I guess form VI (as Jar-Kai techniques do work with a lightsaber in each hand, too) could be a fine addition to my collection.
I would love to learn and Master Niman incorporating Soressu, Makashi and Vapaad into it and use a Jedi Temple guard Lightsaber. I bet this would take years to master maybe two decades with actual combat experience.
Vaapad is a 1/2 of a circuit for the dark side. We know where all of sidious's for lightening went. That aside I think many people think at least somewhat that knowing form vii means your a great lightsaber duelest. Sidious's himself just had immense force enhanced strength and speed not necessarily skill. He also hated lightsabers. don't think the using the dark side makes you any better at form vii. If you can't control your emotions in battle you become unbalanced and open. Sure you may have aggression and strength but that's nothing if it blinds you. That's why individuals like Atris fell because the could not see and would not the darkness in them. Juyo might lead close to the dark side but people like Atris are the reason why it's deadly because of who the are.
You can fall to the dark side with any form especially Form V, All the past Jedi didn’t fall to the dark side because of Juyo. Most of the Jedi fell by their own design others fell by studying the dark side. Atris fell by studying the Sith Holocrons. Atris was no master of Juyo.
Dark side does make one a better user of Form VII. In fact, it's ESSENTIAL for one to access the dark side in order to even make the form work! Without the fury, aggression, hate, anger & whatever else, all of which being negative & decidedly dark side emotions, driving your blade, you'd better off using Form IV or V, as you'd be like trying to power a nuclear sub with diesel engines otherwise.
I study sword combat in reality. I have done Olympic fencing, Belegarth, and am currently studying HEMA. All of this has told me that I prefer light, quick, and precise strikes while maintaining the defensive. If I were a Jedi I would choose Niman for its use of the Force in combat and its ability to adapt, but I would add a focus of Makashi for its dueling precision. Nudging my opponents weapon with the Force to cause them to barely miss or to create an opening would be devastating.
A Grey Jedi isn’t someone who uses both the Light and Dark Sides in balance. That’s fan made. Geetsly said this in a video, too. Balance is supremacy of the Light
Im stuck between Juyo and Niman, my personal real life philosophy, is that the universe is energy, and we are all connected to it. So I'd like the believe I'd choose juyo and flow with that energy. Though the idea of making a heavily force-assisted form of niman, with force speed, telekenetics, and using some sort of augment/blindfold to permenently remove my sight as to rely on force-sight. does sound like a solid way to be in touch with the force. I may even make the imprint of Niman use a mix of forms 1,2,3,4, and 7. Which would make it more of an elegenat flowing duelist style of fighting.
this is a stark contrast to the new canon description of Vapaad where the canon version of the form requiers one to accept one's own dark side and use discipline to not let it touch you, the dark side is not actually an aspect of the force but the dark side of the individual using the force but it still can be unbalancing neither the less, Mace Windu's dark side is that he loves the thrill of battle and relishes in combat and Vapaad is an outlet for it without it corrupting him. Mace Windu is a prime example of a jedi who found balance within himself and through self-discipline mastered himself as much as his lightsaber and force skills which is a testament to his willpower and strength as a jedi and as a person and Vapaad is the ideal style for someone who is not afraid to tap into their passions and use it for strength even lightly tapping into the dark side in controlled ways to avoid corruption by one's own negative emotions such as anger and hate. this is probably why mace windu is the jedi's 2nd greatest duelist next to Yoda himself
I'm not so sure Mace didn't fall to Vaapad... After all, how can we be sure Windu's attempt to murder Palpatine in cold blood at the end of their battle wasn't an effect of his being touched by the overwhelming nature of his opponent and their conflict??? Perhaps it is a question of exposure or perhaps not if but when, but it's actually extremely likely that there is no master of Vaapad and never was (especially considering Juyo is questionable in this regard at best as well). PS: I would likely have studied forms 2 and 7 and the extent that I was making noteworthy progress in each, I also would have trained my padawan to be my executioner as a sentinel. Form 2 would allow me to better face an opponent in which opening myself to that energy would drastically challenge my abilities to remain in control. Form 2 also seems as if it would be the perfect form to counter form 7, and this is what I would root my padawan in. My approach to being a Jedi would more or less be to remove myself from combat whenever possible and become battle whenever necessary (sorta like Hulk in Marvel)... Form 7 would be perfect for such an approach, not to mention many other consistencies between my style of fighting I have formed in all manner of weapons over 20 years (though my art features a lot of consistency that allows for any weapon to be utilized in more or less the exact same way there is a subtle shift very common at all times, and I take is this is the "chaotic" nature of such a style... a deliberately unpredictable form that remains routed in effective standardized movements being altered subtly enough as to be undetected until their effect had already taken place). PS: I had not realized until just now how closely related form 7 is to form 2, perhaps it could even be viewed as a successor form (or at the very least a synergistic form).
Could a light sith or black guard member be able to use vaapad? I remember even some sith like freddon nad were able to perform light sided abilities in one video
Vaapad, just like Juyo, may have been created by a lightsider, but it's still Form VII, which means it's still predominantly a form that REQUIRES the dark side of the Force to work.
For singular duels, Ataru. For long-range engagements and battles where my mobility is restricted, Soresu. For close-range combat against many foes, Shii-Cho. Really, the true answer is Niman, as it can bend and adapt to any situation, and allow me to focus on the Force to cover that which my Lightsaber cannot.
If I had to sum up the lightsaber forms it would probably go like this, form 1 the way of simplicity, form 2 the way of the fencer, form 3 the way of the shield, form 4 the way of the acrobat, form 5 the way of the battering ram,form 6 the way of the unpredictable, form 7 the way of the berserker
If they was TRULY in balance with the Force an they had TRULY all Mastered themselves,come to think of it, the Jedi wouldn't then have had ANY problem with this form. Nor should they. A TRULY level on the lightside Jedi wouldn't let standard form 7 corrupt them... They'd be in control of their emotions. Same with Vaapad. Which means Mace had something he'd not TRULY perfected as he thought. Or he'd perfected Juyo as the perfect thing to bring Jedi seen as problematic, like Anakin into strong Masters in full lightside control of both the form and themselves. Always struck me as a serious flaw he never understood or woulda perfected even if he'd not lost to Sideous on the the movies.
Be aware, Mace Windu did not use a traditional version of Juyo, but instead a variant. Vapaad's form and abilities are mostly similar to Juyo, but still different. Due to this, how Mace Windu fights with his variant: his stances, attacks, poses, abilities, ect. He does not represent Juyo, so do not look to him for how Juyo is despite how similar they are (Vapaad & Juyo). Practitioners like Sidious and Maul used a traditional Juyo for the most part, but were also still rare examples of how they used Juyo. (They both included some of Niman into it)
Bilaba''s use of Form VII and her fall to the dark side are decidedly non-canon now (particularly the fall to the dark side) after Rebels and Bad Batch S1 where she is portrayed as a dedicated Form III user and Kanan's still-light-side master until her death.
Mace Windu in the EU: A badass who dances upon the razor's edge. Mace Windu in the actual movies: So boring he wins most battles because his opponent fall unconcious when he opens his mouth.
I think that if Qui-Gon had trained Anakin, he could have become a powerful Juyo master. Due to the fact that Qui-Gon would teach Anakin to open up to the force and due to Anakins nature as a more aggresive combatant he would use it. Maybe even becoming a true master in it.
I Think Juyo culd be a wonderfull form to Jedi to anderstand, and tast the dark side whithout falling to it if they were not so afraid of it, if they have studied the form and realy anderstand it, they could have "smelled" the darkness before it engolfed them
![The Star Wars Philosopher's Guide to Every Single Lightsaber Technique [Form I - Form VII]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2MIpVjbVl5M/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Star Wars Philosopher's Guide to Every Single Lightsaber Technique [Form I - Form VII]](/img/tr.png)
Mace Windu is such a chad he can use the dark side and not fall to it
He doesn’t use it he reflects others dark energy
@@liamdadeppo6113 either way what a chad
i don't think Mace was unaffected. according to Jedi doctrine, they aren't supposed to strike down an unarmed opponent. Mace was going to strike down Palpatine when he was down (yes technically Palpatine would have used the Force).
in the canon the dark side is only the dark side of that force user, sure it still brings imbalance to the force but Mace Windu mastered himself and uses Vapaad as an outlet for his dark side but maintains his position in the lightside
@@liamdadeppo6113 unfortunatly thats legends, vapaad in canon is about tapping one's personal dark side since the dark side as revealed to yoda during his trip to learn to become a force ghost found out the dark side is technically one's own personal dark side but it is still bringing imbalance to the force, and Mace Windu simply uses Vapaad as an outlet for his dark side since his darkside loves battle and the thrill of the fight. Mace Windu also has mastered himself as much as his lightsaber and force abilities through sheer discipline and willpower. either way Mace Windu is probably the most discipline jedi in the order because he was able to recognize his own dark side and found a way to creatively channel it without falling to it. the canon version of Mace Windu is just as much as a badass as the legends version
Vaapad was meant to combat Dark Side and really the form was perfect in destroying the Sith for their usage of their feeling like Rage, Hatred, and Fear that they often use. If the fight between Palpatine and Windu is true (and not stage by Palpatine) then even powerful Dark Lords could fall prey to the form.
If i'm not mistaken George Lucas stated as much, that Windu did indeed defeated Palpatine, so you're totally right.
@@ramonfernandomirandanoguei365 I just checked the full quote to be sure; it's not quite that simple and I struggle with it. Lucas didn't say he lost, and the only affirmative statement he made towards that end was that "Windu overpowered him". He also said palpatine "pretended to lose strength and become weak" in order to manipulate Anakin.
So he won't say that Windu won, or defeated or was better than Palpatine, and he clearly states that palpatine was feigning weakness. Therefore I think you can't say anything like "Windu beat Palpatine".
My personal take on it is that Palpatine was toying with Windu and lost THE DUEL, not THE FIGHT. Especially since he despises lightsabers and only uses them to belittle the Jedi's reliance on them, it looks to me like he was taunting and got dominated for it. When he fought Yoda he abandoned his lightsaber because Yoda was better at dueling, then he dominated with his force abilities. So I think when he did his lightning he was really starting to fight now, but he didn't know about the Vapad so he lost THAT EXCHANGE. I assume he could have come back since Lucas said he was feigning weakness at this moment and he now knows about Windu's secret weapon (and the novelization made it clear that Windu BARELY held off the lightning).
Not to mention Palps put everything into his grand plans and was unbelievably strong in manipulating and strategizing. I can definitely believe that he was never in any real danger, even though Windu bested him a couple times in the duel, and he was just doing his best to not kill Windu until Anakin got there.
I’m curious, Is it possible to use the fighting skills of form VII without using the dark side itself?
@@seanh7585 here is the problem by building up palps as this all powerful being why would he need anakin in his plans? Here is my thought process palps had 2 obstacles to his plan windu and Yoda he could beat 1 but be to weakend to beat the other he would need help and anakin slicing windus hand although minuscule was enough because palpatine would get to save more energy for the yoda fight where he spent all his energy and only got to force Yoda into exile
Vaapod is really only good against other sith. It wouldn’t do him any good against someone like yoda.
Form 6 with enough training might be what I would choose. A blank slate, to become whatever you do with it, and adapt with you to whoever you need to become.
If you can't choose form 6 them a combination of form 2 with 3 or 5 is the next best thing as those forms cover each other's weaknesses.
I would say it has benefit only in the initial stages of a dual when you're feeling the opponent out and then you can switch to a more effective style once you've got him figured out a bit
@@Janine.Najarian
True, test the waters and then adjust accordingly. That said, against someone like Master Makashi Dooku, or Master Jemn So Anakin, only so much you can do 😅 even with the weaknesses of their forms.
Mace legitimately defeated Sidious. No matter how powerful Sidious was that dark side energy was redirected through superconducting loop right back to Sidious. Forgot to add : And this was mace first time field testing that superconducting loop. He had to maintain that loop through constant concentration through fight .
Lucas did stay as much and it makes sense that mace would be able to defeat and disarm Sidious in lightasber combat. But palpatine was never in danger as while he was disarmed, mace could never get past Sidious's raw strength in the force.
@@stingywingy1607 Judging by how much the lightning hurt him, while not harming Windu at all, it seems like Windu was just a moment away from actually killing Sidious. The only reason he didn't is that Anakin stopped him, which he never expected, and Sidious displayed clear desperation when calling for help from him, after giving up on trying to use lightning after seeing how ineffective it was. It makes complete sense that he would be considered as the next grand master for the Jedi, with him being almost unbeatable, as well as having the stable mind required to even use such a technique.
@@UnswimmingFishYTnot really any panic displayed was solely for the purpose of tempting Anakin.
@@stingywingy1607 That's false tho Palps was beaten however the movie utterly failed to depict what really happened and instead gave the exact opposite impression.
@@stingywingy1607 sidious raw strength doesn't matter to vaapad. Thst superconducting loop was fueling Mace and at the same time was hurting palpatine. Sidious could not keep that up forever and his body would eventually cave.
Another example of how cool and powerful Mace was being able to master such a form
Because of vaapad windu will beat 99 percent of sith . For his first time implementing the superconducting loop of vaapad he defeated Sidious. He was able to block sidious lightning at point black range .
And not just block but full on make it rebound something that only vaapad can do.
Who are the 1% that can get past vaapad?
@@t.j.armendariz354 yes this is true . He was doing so much that match . He had to maintain constant concentration to main that loop insuring that he wasn't corrupted by that Darkseid energy. Because via the loop that darksuse energy was flowing through him without touching him. Vaapad is ingenious.
@@unkown981 Probably Abeloth if she was cannon
@@unkown981 Those that draw on the Dark Side not through passion, but the lack thereof. Cold, detached callousness is a less used method of drawing on the Dark Side. Darth Caedus did this and there's evidence that Dooku did the same.
I just keep thinking of Bane when he trained with Kassim. Learn the forms, but don't rely on them, let the force guide your actions so you can free your mind for broader strategies or for drawing more fully on the dark side.
Seems like form 7 was the sith bread and butter
A shame the Vaapad style seems to be lost in time due to having no one to spread its techniques and skills.
Vaapad survives in Luke’s New Jedi Order.
So Vaapad is not lost in time.
It’s just a matter of who in the NJO is using it.
@@tonywright9906 Mara Jade, they the only ones besides Luke and Windu who can handle Vapaad, but to be honest Mara isn't Canon anymore so who knows.
In Canon, it was lost forever but in Legends it was rediscovered 👍
@@ramarblood7697 Hold on, Mara Jade can use Vaapad in Legends? 😕
@@irvingjotario3345 Not really, but I would say she could likely learn it without falling to the dark side.
I have to say Niman is definitely the most appealing lightsaber form. Being able to imprint your own style on the form is hard to beat.
The principal difference between Juyo and Vaapad is that one calls upon the dark side of the Force and the other... Requires being at peace with the dark side. Something most Jedi simply did not understand.
allowing yourself to feel something without allowing it to affect you
I seriously hope that the sequel to Jedi fallen order let's you choose and master any of the 7 lightsaber forms. Giving potential passives and even different movesets. This video series could be used for inspiration on how they can do that. I also hope they let us explore more force abilities than push or pull. Like unlocking the passive technique of shatterpoint and other such gamechaning force traits/abilities.
Making it through?
Dude, I enjoyed these SO much. This series is simply amazeballs.
Juyo is much like Niman in that it relies on a practicioner to have established swordsmanship skills to truely be a dominating force in battle. Windu and Bulq were Jedi Masters for various reasons but their swordsmanship was prestigious before they worked on Vaapad. With training in the state-of-mind these martial skills were put to expert use to be sure. Thank you for your service, Geetsly's team.
Personally I am drawn to the classics of Makashi & Soresu, which I believe would resource the practice of Niman quite well.
In many ways, some have described it as a surrender to the Force and to chaos, to strike at an opponent with such speed and angles of attack that they have difficulty countering it. […] But in surrendering yourself to the Force in such a way reduces your ability to resist its effects should the enemy turn the Force against you. Be on your guard.
-Kreia
Before watching this I was under the pretense that Juyo was only used by the Sith, but in reality it was a very risky form that a Jedi could wield, relying on the ever-changing nature of the Force during battle, very unlike the other forms. This video made Form VII, both Juyo and Vaapad, my second favorite, my first being Form VI. If I were to choose a form, I'd choose Form VI, but implement Forms II and VII (both styles) into it alongside all the other forms grouped into Form VI, I'd prefer having as many options as possible, being able to adapt to combat and to the flow of the Force, as well as the occasional fight against a Sith.
(And yes I know that seems OP, but it'd require an extreme amount of training to get right, and it's simply just what I would look for in a combat style)
I would choose Vaapad because it’s the closest you can get to being one with the force completely during combat. It’s philosophy of balance and self regulation and acceptance fit with my chose philosophy of Stoicism. I would choose Soresu as a complimentary style to incorporate its movements into the Vaapad style and philosophy.
I always prefer the first form, Shii Cho. As much I like Kit Fisto, Lucien Draay seems to be the best example of how effective the form can be.
Definitely my favorite style in no small part due to the big crit buffs it has in the Force and Destiny tabletop game.
I've been waiting on this one, and the wait has paid off!!!
I'm still a fan of Niman/Jar'kai, something about having two weapons, whether it's a lightsaber, or the force, or a hands and feet, or a blaster appeals to me.
All lightsaber forms can be used with a single dual or double bladed. Vaapad can be used with single or dual blades and also can be used unarmed as well.
@@tonywright9906 my point comes from the fact that Niman/ Jar'kai specializes in it, more so Jar'kai than Niman, but since the two are often referred to as one form my point still holds.
@@trenwilson6613 And that’s cool.
I don’t disagree with that fact.
Ataru was created before Niman and it has a dual or Jar’Kai variant as well. I also agree with something about having two weapons whether it’s a saber or the Force or good ole hands and feet. Maybe a blaster too,but the style I’m still and forever a fan of and student of is Juyo/Vaapad. With Vaapad sharing none of Juyo’s weaknesses.
@@tonywright9906 for starters Niman is the only one that incorporates the various force powers into it's form, all others merely draw on the force. The other thing that separates Niman from Vapaad is that Vapaad is a combination of all other form where Niman draws from the other lightsaber forms to give it more versatility, then when you add the multi weapons of Jar'Kai forms, and people thought Vapaad was unpredictable. For me this versatility is what attract me to the form.
Would love to see videos of the forms that Luke Developed in the legends continuity.
Isn't Vapaad not kinda similar to the whole "Consume Essence"-Technique of the Sith in which they feed of the negative emotions of their opponent?
they aren't feeding off of it, it's more like what Tai-chi claims to be, where you take the energy, and redirect it, you aren't actually interacting with it. That's what made it such a dangerous style, whenever you are going to re-direct something, there is a SMALL tiny moment, where you see it. Jedi who didn't understand how much of a pull the dark side had, saw that mass of "power" and thought "well it wouldn't be bad to enhance my strike just a tad with it" turning it from a redirecting style, into a leeching style. That's what caused their fall. They took in the dark side and tried to use it but not be effected.
It's a "look but don't touch" style.
I would have to go with either Sorisu or Vapaad. I have an inner darkness that I cannot contain. So I must either push it aside, or channel it to the task at hand.
I'm actually sad it finally ended. Loved these videos and I'm excited for your next series
The form I would use as a Jedi is form 3. I think there are three principals that the force, self conservation, protection of others, and stop those one how violate the 2 befores ones. As such form 3 is perfect to protect others and my life. However, I may use form 2 to make precised and non lethal cuts as a form to disarm enemies if I can keep my defense. That because in form 3 or the opponent surrender or make a mistake and stuffer at least a serious injury or death, so if the enemy is not a treeth to my defense I will use makashi to disarm him and try to give him a second chance.
So Vapaad is a Philosophy, more than a form based on techniques? Interesting.
Form V, VI, and VII are my top 3 favorites, love what they all do and represent.
I loved this series!!! I’d use form 5 overwhelming strikes forcing a quick end.
A most welcome video! I’ve been looking forward to this. Also I’d be a Form 2 user! Congrats on joining the 501st subscribers Legion!
Definitely the best description of lightsaber techniques I've seen on youtube.
Excellent videos on the combat forms and if I was a jedi I would likely choose between shi-cho or ataru.
Vaapad is the closest to being a 'grey' jedi that exists in canon.
I’m still sticking with Jar Kai Niiman. I will learn others as needed and maybe hybridize, but I want to see what gets reflected in the mirror of combat.
So Vaapad is allowing the flow of the enemy’s Dark Side and turning it against them without touching it. This actually kinda adds to my theory that Mace Windu went from arresting Sidious to executing him so quickly because Sidious exploited Mace’s use of Vaapad by causing him to absorb too much Dark Side energy when the Sith Lord fired a barrage of Force Lightning. Guess I had a couple of details about how Vaapad works wrong. But my theory still holds water, because maybe there was so much chaotic Dark Side energy that Windu touched the current slightly. Maybe something caused it? It probably wasn’t the thought that Anakin hadn’t listened to him again or the secrets he had that Sidious kept spewing in the midst of it, right?
In order for the loop to be formed, Mace needed to jumpstart the process with his own to begin with. He wasn't really untouched by the dark side, he was only untouched by the dark side from OUTSIDE, as he had his own to content with right from the start. He didn't absorb the darkness from his surroundings simply because he was already pushing out his own.
@@bernardoayres1139 That’s not true. Jedi have killed Sith on many occasions because it’s in combat. Sometimes Jedi feel they’re forced to kill their opponents. But they’ve also arrested them just as much, if not more so, given what Jedi nature is. They don’t fight philosophical wars. The Sith are literally just the pinnacle of evil, their purpose is to openly oppose the Will of the Force and make it bend to their will, to rule the Galaxy and one day the universe. Besides, if they only killed Sith, why did they go to arrest Sidious in the first place? Being a Sith wasn’t even the reason Mace changed decisions, he literally stated why
@@teleportedbreadfor3days I suspect after redirecting SO MUCH darkness from sideous, he realized just what others failed too. Sideous was next-level. if he survived that, he wouldn't fall to anyone outside the chosen one, and was way too slick to just sit in jail. Thus, he was too dangerous to be kept alive.
@@Smol_Eri I wouldn’t say Mace ‘realized’. He was blinded, and the Dark Side blinds people. He resorted to killing Sidious right then and there because he believed there was no other way, when there was and it would have been too risk-prone to kill Sidious without proving to the Galaxy who and what he was and what he had done. The Dark Side doesn’t bring revelation, only damnation in this case. Had Mace arrested Sidious, they could have exposed and his mantled what he had done. Killing him would put the Jedi Order under one hell of a microscope.
a fantastic series. perhaps another series could be the dark side philosophies of each form or an in depth look at the martial arts side of each form
My saber style would be Niman. Also for a future video, I would recommend one featuring the animal that form seven is named after; the Vornskr.
I like all of them but 6 is my favorite, form 7 is my second choice. Both variants.
Take a seat, young Skywalker
6:18-7:06: One reason why I prefer traditional animation for spectacles like this. Live action and CGI animation just can't give such a scene justice and effort.
I'd probably learn them all out of curiosity but use Niman as a main form and bolster it with the strengths of other forms.
And thus, this series come to a close. It's been fun, I'd probably be a Form 3 user, but my favorite is Form 6.
It was defiantly fun, and it's even given me an idea for a Question of a week I can ask on my Discord server. My friend Michael and I discussed in an early video in this series in the comments about what Forms we think characters from the Owl House would use, so a cool idea would be to ask people what forms they think characters from other franchises would use. And since I posted the links to all these videos on the Star Wars channel on my server(because these videos are great and most of that channel is just links to Geetsly videos because of how good they are) everyone should at least know what I'm talking about.
Aww, thanks for mentioning me... wonder if Amity can harness Vaapad? Willow?
Will wait for whatever the next series is. I hope they'll get to talk about unique non-movie Star Wars starcraft like the KotOR-era Aurek-wing, S-250 Chela, and Sith Fighter, the Cloakshape, the Raptor, the Assault Gunboat, the X-83 Twintail, the TIE Predator, and the Missile Boat/King Hell God Starfighter of Death.
Say, you think that the novelization sequence mentioned at 6:18 would have fit right in from a traditional animation viewpoint, style, and range?
@@michaelandreipalon359 No problem, pal. I always saw Amity as a Form 5 user. Willow, I'm not too sure on yet. Luz is obviously Form 6, Gus I see as Form 3, and Hunter as Form 4, but Willow is a tricky one because of how versatile her magic is.
Yeah, that would be cool to learn more about other types of starcraft.
And the older ones?
Especially the KHGSoD.
@@michaelandreipalon359 It might be a little tricky, but if they took inspiration from something like Dragon Ball Z they might be able to replicate what was said was happening in the novelization.
Form III was always the form that philosophically aligned with the Jedi creed. To give yourself to the force and serve as shield to protect those who could not do so themselves.
So something not discussed that I was hoping to hear about was if there were any lightsiders who did use form 7, particularly juyo, that did not fall to the dark side. Or was the dark side fall rate pretty much 95% with just mace windu.
I would make another episode about 8th form - way of Jango Fett and tell how he was able to kill so many Jedi at once... with his bare hands.
What form would I use? Well, I would focus on Soresu mostly but shape it a bit with an offensive style. And it’d be important to touch up on other forms just in case. I wanna be an ideal yet my own Jedi.
My favorite is definitely Niman. As I always love some kind of "mage class" So implementing force pushes etc. I would supplemented it with Vaapad but not for its agressive nature but for it's liquid-like movement and implify it into more defense then offence. So my style would rely on waiting on enemy move to counter it, so you may think of form V but not quite, becouse the counters would not rely on sheer strengh and beating the opponent's saber of the way but harmonize with its offence, fluidly letting enemy wepon to slide of a blade or even guide it's blade as I wish to deliver the slash/stab, or handle strike or force push. It would be mine branch of Niman So it would be perfect for duels but would not be weak in a fighting vs multiple opponents either becouse disposal of force pushes etc. Or the fluid defense wich would Let you swiftly swap between your opponents. This style would probably be the best ageinst the users of form V as it would use thier strengh ageinst them and ageinst form VII users as it would harmonize the fluid defense with thier fluid offence and outlast them. This style would be probably on pair with makashi as both styles rely on staying in touch with opponent's blade to guide it of the way so vs form II results are purely skill dependent. And The greates weaknesses could be the Ataru becouse Ataru rely on fast attack from every side and retreat's so thier blades would not stay in touch with my long enough to to direct them so it 's just take away many chances to deliver a fatal blow. But if enemy would use too much jumps and aerobatics I would have a chance to bring them down with force pull. The biggest con of my style is for sure the blasters. As few blasters would be possible to handle as any force users with saber is capable of but barrage of blasterfire would be lethal as the fluid defense is not good for deflecting shots. So my style desperately needs the implementation of at least basics of form III to survive on battlefield. Opening stance would be just niman stance... Saber pointed down on a sight of main hand... mostly Two handed occasional letting of one hand to use force... Okay that's enough xD
3:33
“Ok team we need to explain to the viewers just how powerful and dangerous it is any ideas?”
Random guy:” have Kreia explain it to them that will get the message across”
Been waiting for this one
Can you also do a vid about the Three Rings of Defence?
REALLY cool series! Great job!
Great job
Master Rahm Kota he was form 7 specialist both star wars the force unleashed 1&2 Sith uses form 7 Juyo but jedi also uses form 7 vaapad.
Djem so and juyo/vaapod are the best combat styles.
Niman would be my combat form - with Shien & Djem So being my primary choice, combine with Ataru & Soresu
In both the legends and canon descriptions of the form 7 it’s stated that form 7 was built directly off the rejected techniques of shi cho shi cho is also a very aggressive form it self so in theory with continued study and mastery of form 1 you could branch directly off into form 7
This makes me wonder how Anakin would have been shaped had Mace trained him.
That's an interesting question. Unlike Obi-wan who's a good boy scout rooted in the light through & through, Mace had always been walking the line between light & dark to begin with. While i'm not sure if Mace would ever teach Anakin Vaapad, there's no doubt that Anakin would at least learn about his own dark side & how to channel it better, as opposed to Obi-wan who just keeps telling Anakin to shut it out.
@@FalconWindblader He also would have probably not had as much of an emotional attachment to Mace as Obi-wan.
Anakin’s fall from grace was always rooted in his personal attachments, those he had with his mother, Padme, Obi-wan, Palpatine, and later Asoka.
If he had a mentor he wasn’t as obsessively dedicated to, he probably would have been more emotionally stable.
he would have had to really really adhere to the philosophical aspects of feeling the intense Dark side influenced emotions without allowing them to affect him. not really sure he could do it
Niman is, in my opinion, the most effective style, but it depends on the mindset of the user. If they approach it from the mindset that it's good enough and then focus on other diplomatic duties, then they're going to be weak. However, a user that takes it as far as it can go can adapt it to any situation, as well as fully incorporate other styles, meaning they could train other styles to strengthen parts of Niman.
My favorite form is Form V, which I would use in conjunction with Form IV if I were a Jedi.
Form VII is already Form V kicked up to 11, strong ferocious wide-sweeping strikes backed with the speed & erratic nature of Form IV.
I would use forms 2,3,and 6. 2 for blades, 3 for blasters and 6 as a fall back option
You either stick with 6 & mold it in your own unique way, or you just do other forms & leave 6 out entirely. 6, without in-depth know-how to use it as a primary form, would simply be useless for anything intense.
I'm currently studying Ataru to have Shii-Cho, Makashii, Ataru and Shien as a Base for studying Juyo, from there I want to find the difference between Juyo,Juyo-Kos and Vapaad to see if I can make any improvements before I move on to Trakata.
Juyo-Kos isn't actually a form though. That's just something a fan came up with himself. And all that is, well it's just a Mix of pretty much every other Lightsaber Form.
@@MultiBigJC SWTOR described Juyo-Kos specifically as a variation on Juyo, obviously to be a failed attempt at completing the Form, implicitly as a Proto-Vapaad. While its canonicity has been revoked, it's still a direction worth investigating, particularly when so many saber rakes are so eager to attempt Vapaad they don't pay enough attention to Juyo.
My favorite Form VII practitioners:
1. Mace Windu
2. Darth Maul
3. Darth Sidious
4. Rahm Kota
5. Lord Scourge
6. Galen Marek
Lord Scourge? Wasn't he that kid warlord and former student of Luke's in Legends?
@@amanzeihedioha Lord Scourge is the Sith species alien guy from the Old Republic animation shorts with the double bladed lightsaber.
@@amanzeihedioha he’s a Sith pureblood from the swtor era
I reckon that if Anakin had been trained by qui gon
Then mace might have trained Anakin in this
Possibility and I like to think so
I enjoyed the series 👍
But which of the forms would I choose?
The part of my life which is closest to physical combat, that's soccer.
- One has to battle single opp players as well as multiple opp players, too.
- I am known for my intuition to guide me on the pitch and a fair manner in combat. Yet chaotic from the surface, but actually with a lot of tactic behind it.
- I use my emotions and passion, rage included, yet don't give in to blind hatred for the opp players... and instead use the emotions to become more powerful, have more stamina and be more focused - To overwhelm opp players. As fast as I can... and I enjoy this kind of battle.
So, in my case, the forms III, V (both styles) and VII will be my forms of choice. As I do use both feet to play, I guess form VI (as Jar-Kai techniques do work with a lightsaber in each hand, too) could be a fine addition to my collection.
Oh hell yeah I love this series
I would love to learn and Master Niman incorporating Soressu, Makashi and Vapaad into it and use a Jedi Temple guard Lightsaber. I bet this would take years to master maybe two decades with actual combat experience.
Really love that your Chanel has 501k subs my favorite legion
Form VII is a lightsaber combat form, a philosophy and almost a way of life.
seems like less of a combat form and more of the other two
Didn't Quinlan Vos use vaapad against Sora Bulq in the end?
Vaapad is a 1/2 of a circuit for the dark side. We know where all of sidious's for lightening went.
That aside I think many people think at least somewhat that knowing form vii means your a great lightsaber duelest. Sidious's himself just had immense force enhanced strength and speed not necessarily skill. He also hated lightsabers.
don't think the using the dark side makes you any better at form vii. If you can't control your emotions in battle you become unbalanced and open. Sure you may have aggression and strength but that's nothing if it blinds you. That's why individuals like Atris fell because the could not see and would not the darkness in them. Juyo might lead close to the dark side but people like Atris are the reason why it's deadly because of who the are.
You can fall to the dark side with any form especially Form V, All the past Jedi didn’t fall to the dark side because of Juyo. Most of the Jedi fell by their own design others fell by studying the dark side.
Atris fell by studying the Sith Holocrons.
Atris was no master of Juyo.
Dark side does make one a better user of Form VII. In fact, it's ESSENTIAL for one to access the dark side in order to even make the form work! Without the fury, aggression, hate, anger & whatever else, all of which being negative & decidedly dark side emotions, driving your blade, you'd better off using Form IV or V, as you'd be like trying to power a nuclear sub with diesel engines otherwise.
Wdym palps didnt have skill didnt he master all forms from 1 to 6?
Imo if Anakin were taken under Windu's wing and taught to channel his anger through Vaapad, a lot of tragedy could have been avoided.
I study sword combat in reality. I have done Olympic fencing, Belegarth, and am currently studying HEMA. All of this has told me that I prefer light, quick, and precise strikes while maintaining the defensive. If I were a Jedi I would choose Niman for its use of the Force in combat and its ability to adapt, but I would add a focus of Makashi for its dueling precision. Nudging my opponents weapon with the Force to cause them to barely miss or to create an opening would be devastating.
For me, I would stick with form 4 or 7. Lots of great attacks
I bet when Anakin walked in on Mace's duel, he realised how naive he was to ever think he was on the Jedi master's level.
As a Gray Jedi, I would use the Seventh form...
A Grey Jedi isn’t someone who uses both the Light and Dark Sides in balance. That’s fan made. Geetsly said this in a video, too. Balance is supremacy of the Light
Ahsoka's style. Duel sabers
If i were a jedi myself, i would practice niman. No questions asked
Im stuck between Juyo and Niman, my personal real life philosophy, is that the universe is energy, and we are all connected to it. So I'd like the believe I'd choose juyo and flow with that energy. Though the idea of making a heavily force-assisted form of niman, with force speed, telekenetics, and using some sort of augment/blindfold to permenently remove my sight as to rely on force-sight. does sound like a solid way to be in touch with the force. I may even make the imprint of Niman use a mix of forms 1,2,3,4, and 7. Which would make it more of an elegenat flowing duelist style of fighting.
So that was why it reflects sith lightning rather than block it?
This is my way.
this is a stark contrast to the new canon description of Vapaad where the canon version of the form requiers one to accept one's own dark side and use discipline to not let it touch you, the dark side is not actually an aspect of the force but the dark side of the individual using the force but it still can be unbalancing neither the less, Mace Windu's dark side is that he loves the thrill of battle and relishes in combat and Vapaad is an outlet for it without it corrupting him. Mace Windu is a prime example of a jedi who found balance within himself and through self-discipline mastered himself as much as his lightsaber and force skills which is a testament to his willpower and strength as a jedi and as a person and Vapaad is the ideal style for someone who is not afraid to tap into their passions and use it for strength even lightly tapping into the dark side in controlled ways to avoid corruption by one's own negative emotions such as anger and hate. this is probably why mace windu is the jedi's 2nd greatest duelist next to Yoda himself
I'm not so sure Mace didn't fall to Vaapad... After all, how can we be sure Windu's attempt to murder Palpatine in cold blood at the end of their battle wasn't an effect of his being touched by the overwhelming nature of his opponent and their conflict??? Perhaps it is a question of exposure or perhaps not if but when, but it's actually extremely likely that there is no master of Vaapad and never was (especially considering Juyo is questionable in this regard at best as well).
PS: I would likely have studied forms 2 and 7 and the extent that I was making noteworthy progress in each, I also would have trained my padawan to be my executioner as a sentinel. Form 2 would allow me to better face an opponent in which opening myself to that energy would drastically challenge my abilities to remain in control. Form 2 also seems as if it would be the perfect form to counter form 7, and this is what I would root my padawan in. My approach to being a Jedi would more or less be to remove myself from combat whenever possible and become battle whenever necessary (sorta like Hulk in Marvel)... Form 7 would be perfect for such an approach, not to mention many other consistencies between my style of fighting I have formed in all manner of weapons over 20 years (though my art features a lot of consistency that allows for any weapon to be utilized in more or less the exact same way there is a subtle shift very common at all times, and I take is this is the "chaotic" nature of such a style... a deliberately unpredictable form that remains routed in effective standardized movements being altered subtly enough as to be undetected until their effect had already taken place).
PS: I had not realized until just now how closely related form 7 is to form 2, perhaps it could even be viewed as a successor form (or at the very least a synergistic form).
I’m try to mix nemin with a focus on the defense form or vapaad and Atari depending on what I need
Cool video I love ❤️ it I enjoyed it!!!!
I would learn VI form. Easy to learn, and then bugger off studying lore in the jedi archives. Yes that would be ideal
Could a light sith or black guard member be able to use vaapad? I remember even some sith like freddon nad were able to perform light sided abilities in one video
Vaapad, just like Juyo, may have been created by a lightsider, but it's still Form VII, which means it's still predominantly a form that REQUIRES the dark side of the Force to work.
For singular duels, Ataru.
For long-range engagements and battles where my mobility is restricted, Soresu.
For close-range combat against many foes, Shii-Cho.
Really, the true answer is Niman, as it can bend and adapt to any situation, and allow me to focus on the Force to cover that which my Lightsaber cannot.
If I had to sum up the lightsaber forms it would probably go like this, form 1 the way of simplicity, form 2 the way of the fencer, form 3 the way of the shield, form 4 the way of the acrobat, form 5 the way of the battering ram,form 6 the way of the unpredictable, form 7 the way of the berserker
I would so go for Form IV
I choose form 3 with burst's of forms 4 or 5 depending on the situation.
If they was TRULY in balance with the Force an they had TRULY all Mastered themselves,come to think of it, the Jedi wouldn't then have had ANY problem with this form. Nor should they. A TRULY level on the lightside Jedi wouldn't let standard form 7 corrupt them... They'd be in control of their emotions. Same with Vaapad. Which means Mace had something he'd not TRULY perfected as he thought. Or he'd perfected Juyo as the perfect thing to bring Jedi seen as problematic, like Anakin into strong Masters in full lightside control of both the form and themselves. Always struck me as a serious flaw he never understood or woulda perfected even if he'd not lost to Sideous on the the movies.
What form do you think is best for a dual bladed light saber
Be aware, Mace Windu did not use a traditional version of Juyo, but instead a variant. Vapaad's form and abilities are mostly similar to Juyo, but still different. Due to this, how Mace Windu fights with his variant: his stances, attacks, poses, abilities, ect. He does not represent Juyo, so do not look to him for how Juyo is despite how similar they are (Vapaad & Juyo). Practitioners like Sidious and Maul used a traditional Juyo for the most part, but were also still rare examples of how they used Juyo. (They both included some of Niman into it)
Imagine a Makashi-type duelist channeling Vaapad aspects...
From 3 for life baby
Bilaba''s use of Form VII and her fall to the dark side are decidedly non-canon now (particularly the fall to the dark side) after Rebels and Bad Batch S1 where she is portrayed as a dedicated Form III user and Kanan's still-light-side master until her death.
I have found that when I spar, I have changed between forms two and six.
so Vapaad is like Ultra Instinct and Juyo is like Ultra Ego
I just like it when a jedi is said to use any of the forms that aren't 3,4, or 5 because they're way overused
Mace Windu in the EU: A badass who dances upon the razor's edge.
Mace Windu in the actual movies: So boring he wins most battles because his opponent fall unconcious when he opens his mouth.
I think that if Qui-Gon had trained Anakin, he could have become a powerful Juyo master. Due to the fact that Qui-Gon would teach Anakin to open up to the force and due to Anakins nature as a more aggresive combatant he would use it. Maybe even becoming a true master in it.
I Think Juyo culd be a wonderfull form to Jedi to anderstand, and tast the dark side whithout falling to it if they were not so afraid of it, if they have studied the form and realy anderstand it, they could have "smelled" the darkness before it engolfed them