"That is so like you, Master Kenobi. I am called a great swordsman I invented a lethal style; but who is greater, the creator of a killing form--or the master of the classic form?" - Mace Windu
I love the way that zannah’s application of form 3 is described entirely differently than it is for obi-wan. It really shows how, when in the hands of a sith, it is more a style of subtlety and plays into the rule of two philosophy of using cunning as a sith weapon, rather than brute strength. Zannah mastered form 3 as a way to play into her true strength of sith sorcery. It shows the genius in both her and bane’s study of the force, while also showing us something unique among both jedi and sith, which for me did wonders for characterizing her.
@@DTheCritical There is no such thing as 'Niman as a second style'. You either use Niman or you use something else altogether. However pacifistic Soresu practitioners are, they still firmly establish themselves as combatants, while Niman practitioners use Niman because they don't even consider themselves combatants. Their ragtag assortment of moves is assembled for a combatant fairing poorly at EVERYTHING to survive a fight.
Also cut the little lady some slack take into account who her Master was who spent his younger years was spent working for a company that was not up to OSHA code and a Union would be considered illegal, also when he was in his fifties was still a mountain of muscle
@@mewtwo6849 yes, but Bane was also well versed in Soresu. In Rule of Two, he used Form III to deflect blaster fire from a group of mercenaries that served the Brotherhood and he specifically trained Zannah in Soresu. And in the prologue of Dynasty of Evil, Bane used Form III to defend against a rainstorm for ten minutes as a training exercise
A… defensive technique. But effective. Use it if you do not wish to be hit, or if you are facing many opponents with blasters. With a lightsaber blade and enough skill in deflection, it is an excellent offense against blasters, but in other situations, it merely delays the inevitable. -KREIA
The ultimate defense is often a fortress that can not be moved much less destroyed, but this form is no fortress own it’s own, though with the force as your ally it could be.
My absolute favourite form. Especially after reading the Bane series and the Tython duel. I love that the Soresu isn't created to defeat the opponent, but to outlast and tire them. From Sith point of view, it's also great form if you're a Sith sorcerer and lightsaber is just a tool you use for self-defence. If I'd be dropped in the Star Wars universe and became a Force user, I'd choose Soresu as my form.
Is it just me or Darth Traya seemed to be one of the wisest characters from the time of Revan? Speaking of Jedi and Sith, does doing something like removing emotions to prevent something like stockholm syndrome and other sorts of emotional obsessions worth it?
A bat that sucks energy and can leave you stranded. Befits Form III, as the emphasis on defense can drain the opponent's energy and leave them exhausted for a counterattack
@@geetslys Tell us you don't know the current lore without telling us. Your entire video on Anakin/Vader is just your opinion on legends content, and literally the only source you cite is Stover's book; which is non-canon now. In legends Anakin and Vader were the same person. However, there's at least half a dozen canonical references confirming they are now split personalities. Kindly update your knowledge-base or add a legends-only disclaimer in your videos before you distribute false information & purposely attempt to confuse the fandom with outdated info. You're far more articulate and presentable than the likes of Stupendous and Theory; so start acting like it.
Oneness with the Force + this form = unstoppable and nigh unkillable sense of combat. The only way this can be beaten is when the practitioner actually intends to end it with their defeat or rather acceptance of what's to come, resulting mostly in death.
It is said that the best form 7 masters could break a soresu defense but this likely only applies to average form 3 users. Form 2 offers the best chance against soresu because instead of working through it's defense it simply maneuvers around them, hence why Dooku is always able to beat Obi Wan (plus he's stronger in the force).
@@stingywingy1607 Dooku actually struggled against Kenobis soresu and needed to cheat to take him out: Only to find himself again facing the wheel of blue lightning that was Kenobi's blade. Dooku decided that the comedy had ended. Now it was time to kill. Kenobi's Master had been Qui-Gon Jinn, Dooku's own Padawan; Dooku had fenced Qui-Gon thousands of times, and he knew every weakness of the Ataro form, with its ridiculous acrobatics. He drove a series of flashing thrusts toward Kenobi's legs to draw the Jedi Master into a flipping overhead leap so that Dooku could burn through his spine from kidneys to shoulder blades-and this image, this plan, was so clear in Dooku's mind that he almost failed to notice that Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when Dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, he finally registered the source of that blinding defensive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys, as well. Kenobi had become a master of Soresu.
@@7632ios Sure he struggled, but as Kreia stated it only delayed the inevitable. Obi wan was always at a standstill or was beaten by Dooku. Which makes sense because in fencing (which is essentially makashi) being mostly defensive is a very bad idea.
Amazing!!!! I feel like this is why whenever Kenobi fights he or his opponent usually leaves the fight. If they don't leave, they get their shit rocked but usually that doesn't happen. Dope form, dope video, so excited for next week.
Ah, Zannah bashing... I'm proud of this xD definetly a great breakdown and I totally agree: Soresu is to jedi what Juyo is to sith. It can be mastered in a technical sense by the opposing side, but its philosophy does prevent it from reaching its apex potential in those regards.
So that thing Obi-Wan always did was an opening salute with the Form. Huh, never knew that. Do all the Forms have an opening salute like that which telegraphs what Form you're using? I image at least Form 4 does since in his final battle with Maul, Oobi-Wan took that stance to trick Maul into thinking he was going with his Master's style of Form 4 so Maul would go for a move to counter Form 4, which Obi-Wan would be ready to respond to by switching to a Form to counter the counter.
Might make things a little bit obvious, but yeah, it does have its effect on the practitioner and the foe. Still one of the best parts of Disney Canon, that. Alright, setting that certain two day countdown. With the extra personnel and effort, the witch hunter fool might not last too long.
@@michaelandreipalon359 The troops have already been mobilized and setting up initial perimeter defense, sir. However, that fool has moved all his troops to one location, meaning his home base of the castle is completely unguarded. While it is likely he took all essential equipment and the like from it before that, I still believe there might be something useful in the castle that could help us deal with him. Permission to send a small team f our best infiltrators to the castle, Commander?
No need for armies. Send in, hmm, Splinter Cell/Third Echelon and Grendel Squadron types instead. We don't want to end up being a Deus Ex Machina violating a sort of Prime Directive of the Multiverse.
My understanding is that it's not a salute as much as an opening stance, hand on front to provoke an attack to an obvious target that can be easily defended and thus countered.
@@michaelandreipalon359 Umm, yes sir. (Whispering): Really got to re-read my handbook, because I didn't understand some of that. I'll just pass it along to a trooper that does. lol.
Loving this series so far. Curious for when you get to Form V, will Djem So and Shien be the same video? Despite being the same form they always felt like radically different styles to me.
I personally think they will be the same. While they have different maneuvers and perhaps tactics, they have the same core philosophy: block and counter, defend and overwhelm, persevere and retaliate. However, you conceptualize it, it is a stalwart defense directly followed by an aggressive offense.
@@Cyclonus5 That’s a good point. While Djem So emphasizes physical strength the most of any form with its wider swings and Shien is much more focused on agility and moving around the battlefield the actual philosophy of the forms are quite similar. Just thought it was worth noting that in practice they tend to work quite differently. Shien is much more of a battlefield attrition style while Djem So is physically overwhelming one’s opponent.
@@sterlingauty4186 I personally think they require the same amount of strength, Shien requiring greater lower body strength for leaps and upper body strength for actively directing blaster bolts. I have this mnemonic in my mind that Form V Shien is the Form I Blast deflection agression and Form IV footwork and aggressive blade work while Form V Djem-So is the Form II linear Dynamics and lightsaber combat focus and Form III defensive blade work.
@@Cyclonus5 I absolutely agree with the makeup of the forms you mentioned. I should have specified that what I meant is of the aggressive Forms Form V allows upper body strength to shine with its wider swings. It can be used without a user having as much upper body strength; as Adi-Gallia did, but that led her to be ill prepared to face Savage Opress. Anakin/Vader and Luke were two of the more well known Djem So users and both were known for their physical strength (Vader especially so but we see Luke doing various exercises to prepare his upper body and other muscles in Empire). I wasn’t trying to disparage Shien, it requires quite a bit of lower body strength given that it and Ataru are the most acrobatic and mobile forms (One can argue that Juyo and Vaapad are as mobile as well which is true but both forms are much more reliant on surrendering to the Force or using one’s opponents emotions against them).
@@sterlingauty4186 I agree with you in that case and I especially like your emphasis on Adi Gallia, as she is my primary model for my own study of Shien. Personally, I think the depictions of Adi Gallia and Plo Koon in Jedi Power Battles well summarizes the distinctions between Shien and Djem-So. As for Juyo/Vapaad, I think Shii-Cho, when taken to it's full curriculum has an acrobatic element, which Ataru emphasizes and codified with the Su Ma Rotations, while Shien and Juyo have a slightly more relaxed version, perhaps the same and Shii-Cho but emphasized sooner in the curriculum.
I read about Form 3 in ROTS novelization...where it explained how it worked and how Obi Wan used it...It made me appreciate Obi Wan more than ever...The reason why he is the master of Form 3 is also the reason why he is the greatest of all the Jedi
Form 4 is pretty interesting it's a mix of defense and attack but the defense is not just light saber focused form 4 incorporates avoidance techniques as well you constantly move and avoid an opponents strikes and strike back when you get the opportunity
So far, if I understand correctly: Form I, the 9 master cuts and mostly treating the lightsaber like a conventional sword against unarmored foes. Form II, an evolution and response to Form I in the same way rapier play was a response to longsword play, particularly the Spanish schools that focused on precision, geometry and focus. Form III, another response to the change in combat expectations where the goal in conflict is to survive unharmed turning the lightsaber into a shield from the chaos around you. The expected foe now no longer has a lightsaber.
The reason Consulars favored form 3 is also quite telling of the Jedi mentality. They basically have the trademark of using non-violent ways to solve disputes, but Form 3 fits perfectly into the tactic of using your lightsaber for defense while disarming or disabling your opponent using the Force alone. It's basically accepting what the style teaches and still managing to take obstinate enemies down without ever attacking using your weapon. So you just let them beat themselves tired against your defense and then drop them where they stand, still alive but unable to fight.
How did they come up with the animal names for the Form? Vaapad seemed like the only intuitive one to suit the style? Definitely excited for the discussion. The hybrid styles are also pretty interesting. Wasn't there a Sith that beat Bane's offense with Form 3, and swapped to Form 2 to actually defeat him? Even Obiwan had to use his wits and sometimes Form 1 or 4 to end a fight. The Labyrinth of Evil novel also has his Form 3 mastered to the point where he can angle bolts in whatever direction he wanted, much like Form 5 is described.
Hence someone who uses Soresu (3) with Shien (5, Blaster Defense/Counter) is practically an even more effective defender. Just add Makashi (2) for some offense, and you're golden.
Honour to you, Geetsly's team. This series - and indeed this video - is a great service to those who love Star Wars. Thank you for teaching what it should mean to be a Jedi.
Hm...not the Form I'd learn, I am partial to some of the others, especially: - Makashi (so elegant, making a duel look effortless, but oh so deadly! A dance of blades, step, step, slice, slice, block, parry, riposte, without using a lot of strength - experience wins in those fights! Look at Dooku, he's not in his prime anymore, but he played with Anakin and Obi-Wan for years, till the war experience bridged the gab between them - not to mention that Anakin's form is the counter to Dooku's form, elegant dancing moves aren't so great if your enemy brute forces you and can easily slap aside your blade and derail your elegant moves!) - Ataru (burns a lot of energy, but it keeps you moving and makes you a hard target) - Shien/Djem So (the hammer among the forms, power, speed, momentum, precision and breaking through an opponents defenses, also good for blaster-deflection!) - Niman (but only if you are a true master of the blade, otherwise this form weakens you, as it has few weaknesses, but no strengths either! All Niman practioners at the (first) Battle of Geonosis DIED! In the hands of an "artist" with the lightsaber, like (Darth) Revan? It is the most effective form, then again, Revan knew them all and also used a lot of hard force techniques like teleportation, so he was not only a master of the blade, but a true master of the force, using it more and in more impressive ways than the later Masters during the clone wars!) I also like (unlike Count Dooku) the integration of a secondary (full sized, I don't like shotos - why? A lightsaber blade has no weight, so wielding two full sized blades is no disadvantage!) blade, especially against multiple oponents with blasters (against someone with a blade, I'd probably revert to one blade myself and use the force with the other hand!)
If you watch Maul's fight against Sidious on Mandalore, you'll notice he takes a Soresu stance, since he knows his goal won't be to win the fight, but, like you said, to survive it.
And here I thought form 4 was most popular among jedi (especially younglings and padawans). Since even if impractical, the arcrobatic and aggressive style looked amazing to the corrupted minds of the jedi peacekeepers before and during the clone wars. Think how even masters like quiqon jin, aobi wan, yoda, skywalker, etc. Decide to master/focus this form. Either at first or sticking with it. Even through it is impractical at best for most users.
Honestly, this reminds me of being in _Fate/Grand Order_ . I summoned a Saber class Heroic Spirit who, in your terms, practiced Form Three (3) & simply blocked every bullet from a machine gun nest in the Middle East (technically part of an international spec ops group, reformed right after September 11th, 2001)… P.S. if anybody can make/show me a video where a metal sword deflects bullets from a machine gun until they’re out of ammo, or similar, that’ll be great…
🤷♂️, I’m more into the anime, @@michaelandreipalon359. However, I’d love to make a movie, a reality show on the silver screen to be precise, starring the most famous living witches & wizards of and/or in the United States of America; I’d call it _Fate/America_ & I do ponder which Heroic Spirit(s) each contestant might ‘summon’…
Man, only in recent years can I really appreciate how much lore was put into kotor II:Sith Lords. Disney doesn't seem to have the same level of appreciation for what george lucas created smh 😩
In one way this seems a bit selfish though; defending yourself and maybe those behind you, while a (possibly non-lethal) attack could end a threat for everyone. Not the only way to look at it, but still.
I am not sure form 3 can even be called a style, it is just tightening up the guard and requires cross training for strikes. Arguably the same can be said of 7, it requires another style as a base and expresses it agressively. It is not like dual wielding, taunting and integrating force powers are unique styles either. Maybe you can say it is similar to Aikido but even they are pretty good at breaking wrists..
This may be the last time I watch content from this channel. UA-cam's money hungry adds have gotten so bad now that they're actively trying to prevent me from watching content from this channel and I'm not having it anymore.
Oh shit, I didn't realize... My and my friends are on the same UA-cam Premium Plan, only $18. Never gotten ads from UA-cam in over a year. I genuinely forget that most people still deal with them.
Anyone who rips on jedi using more offense based forms for not following there ideals of being peace makers and defenders of peace is a fool sometimes the only way to keep or defend peace is to take out the threat to that peace and constantly refusing attacking is not effective defense of peace
Form III I ironically find to be one of the more outrageous forms realistically speaking. It’s only effective for space wizards and droids. To meat bags it’s a death sentence as we can’t accurately predict five seconds of the future with any real consistency. Thus you’re stuck constantly reacting to your opponent and letting them control the fight.
"That is so like you, Master Kenobi. I am called a great swordsman I invented a lethal style; but who is greater, the creator of a killing form--or the master of the classic form?" - Mace Windu
“I’m very flattered that you would consider me a master, but really-“ Obi-Wan Kenobi
Revenge of the sith novilisation. I was listening to it again last week
Master Mace....🥲
That novel is freaking genius
@@darylsdesigns6679 “Not a master. *The* master.”
I love the way that zannah’s application of form 3 is described entirely differently than it is for obi-wan. It really shows how, when in the hands of a sith, it is more a style of subtlety and plays into the rule of two philosophy of using cunning as a sith weapon, rather than brute strength. Zannah mastered form 3 as a way to play into her true strength of sith sorcery. It shows the genius in both her and bane’s study of the force, while also showing us something unique among both jedi and sith, which for me did wonders for characterizing her.
She still should have had Niman as a secondary style
@@DTheCritical There is no such thing as 'Niman as a second style'. You either use Niman or you use something else altogether. However pacifistic Soresu practitioners are, they still firmly establish themselves as combatants, while Niman practitioners use Niman because they don't even consider themselves combatants. Their ragtag assortment of moves is assembled for a combatant fairing poorly at EVERYTHING to survive a fight.
@@FalconWindbladerrevan and exar kun would disagree
Also cut the little lady some slack take into account who her Master was who spent his younger years was spent working for a company that was not up to OSHA code and a Union would be considered illegal, also when he was in his fifties was still a mountain of muscle
My favorite Form III practitioners:
1. Obi-Wan Kenobi (obviously)
2. Darth Zannah
3. Luminara Unduli & Barriss Offee
4. Luke Skywalker
5. Darth Bane
6. Kanan Jarrus
That’s is a list that I can definitely respect!
Luke used form 6 tho
Wasn't Darth Bane a practitioner of Diem So, "the way of Lrayt dragon" ?
@@mewtwo6849 yes, but Bane was also well versed in Soresu. In Rule of Two, he used Form III to deflect blaster fire from a group of mercenaries that served the Brotherhood and he specifically trained Zannah in Soresu. And in the prologue of Dynasty of Evil, Bane used Form III to defend against a rainstorm for ten minutes as a training exercise
@@darylsdesigns6679 my man fought the rain so he could Reign over the fight
A… defensive technique. But effective. Use it if you do not wish to be hit, or if you are facing many opponents with blasters. With a lightsaber blade and enough skill in deflection, it is an excellent offense against blasters, but in other situations, it merely delays the inevitable. -KREIA
Whoooa you quoted the quote that was already quoted in the video!
The ultimate defense is often a fortress that can not be moved much less destroyed, but this form is no fortress own it’s own, though with the force as your ally it could be.
More than one way to destroy a fortress to render it a tomb, but that's a story for another day.
Star Wars has a thing about Jedi and impregnable fortresses. Basically give them 10 good men and they’ll impregnate the bitch
My absolute favourite form. Especially after reading the Bane series and the Tython duel.
I love that the Soresu isn't created to defeat the opponent, but to outlast and tire them. From Sith point of view, it's also great form if you're a Sith sorcerer and lightsaber is just a tool you use for self-defence.
If I'd be dropped in the Star Wars universe and became a Force user, I'd choose Soresu as my form.
Is it just me or Darth Traya seemed to be one of the wisest characters from the time of Revan? Speaking of Jedi and Sith, does doing something like removing emotions to prevent something like stockholm syndrome and other sorts of emotional obsessions worth it?
Hah, so Obi Wan's lightsaber form is named after a flying space bat with a giant sucker?
Yes. Why do you ask?
That fits
A bat that sucks energy and can leave you stranded. Befits Form III, as the emphasis on defense can drain the opponent's energy and leave them exhausted for a counterattack
Flying space bats also always have the high ground 👀
I was so excited for form 3 it’s easily my favorite form and also my favorite Jedi is very well known with this form
This in my opinion is one of the best forms but then again they are all so cool!
Same here.
"Because of Obi-Wan?"
[Chad Yes]
@@geetslys Tell us you don't know the current lore without telling us. Your entire video on Anakin/Vader is just your opinion on legends content, and literally the only source you cite is Stover's book; which is non-canon now.
In legends Anakin and Vader were the same person. However, there's at least half a dozen canonical references confirming they are now split personalities. Kindly update your knowledge-base or add a legends-only disclaimer in your videos before you distribute false information & purposely attempt to confuse the fandom with outdated info. You're far more articulate and presentable than the likes of Stupendous and Theory; so start acting like it.
The only thing more impermeable than obi wans lightsaber form is his sass
🤣
I guess that means Uncle Owen is a Sasskeshi master
If I had a form IRL it would Soresu!!
"Unless you're Darth Zannah, of course, in which case it teaches you nothing and you use it as a defensive tool while you brew your sith sorcery"
XD
AKA the 'stay alive' form. ^^
Nice episode, keep up the good work.
Obi Wan Kenobi was not a master of Soresu, but the master of Soresu according to Mace Windu.
Form 3. The way of the 'Hello There'
Yes this and then next Ataru(form iv). Can't wait. Been loving this series.
Oneness with the Force + this form = unstoppable and nigh unkillable sense of combat.
The only way this can be beaten is when the practitioner actually intends to end it with their defeat or rather acceptance of what's to come, resulting mostly in death.
It is said that the best form 7 masters could break a soresu defense but this likely only applies to average form 3 users. Form 2 offers the best chance against soresu because instead of working through it's defense it simply maneuvers around them, hence why Dooku is always able to beat Obi Wan (plus he's stronger in the force).
@@stingywingy1607 Dooku actually struggled against Kenobis soresu and needed to cheat to take him out:
Only to find himself again facing the wheel of blue lightning that was Kenobi's blade.
Dooku decided that the comedy had ended.
Now it was time to kill.
Kenobi's Master had been Qui-Gon Jinn, Dooku's own Padawan; Dooku had fenced Qui-Gon thousands of times, and he knew every weakness of the Ataro form, with its ridiculous acrobatics. He drove a series of flashing thrusts toward Kenobi's legs to draw the Jedi Master into a flipping overhead leap so that Dooku could burn through his spine from kidneys to shoulder blades-and this image, this plan, was so clear in Dooku's mind that he almost failed to notice that Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when Dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, he finally registered the source of that blinding defensive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys, as well.
Kenobi had become a master of Soresu.
@@7632ios Sure he struggled, but as Kreia stated it only delayed the inevitable. Obi wan was always at a standstill or was beaten by Dooku. Which makes sense because in fencing (which is essentially makashi) being mostly defensive is a very bad idea.
Loved the descriptions of various styles in the Darth Bane trilogy, especially during the fight on Tython
I love the voice of kriea actress.
Amazing!!!! I feel like this is why whenever Kenobi fights he or his opponent usually leaves the fight. If they don't leave, they get their shit rocked but usually that doesn't happen. Dope form, dope video, so excited for next week.
Ah, Zannah bashing... I'm proud of this xD definetly a great breakdown and I totally agree: Soresu is to jedi what Juyo is to sith. It can be mastered in a technical sense by the opposing side, but its philosophy does prevent it from reaching its apex potential in those regards.
So that thing Obi-Wan always did was an opening salute with the Form. Huh, never knew that. Do all the Forms have an opening salute like that which telegraphs what Form you're using?
I image at least Form 4 does since in his final battle with Maul, Oobi-Wan took that stance to trick Maul into thinking he was going with his Master's style of Form 4 so Maul would go for a move to counter Form 4, which Obi-Wan would be ready to respond to by switching to a Form to counter the counter.
Might make things a little bit obvious, but yeah, it does have its effect on the practitioner and the foe.
Still one of the best parts of Disney Canon, that.
Alright, setting that certain two day countdown. With the extra personnel and effort, the witch hunter fool might not last too long.
@@michaelandreipalon359 The troops have already been mobilized and setting up initial perimeter defense, sir. However, that fool has moved all his troops to one location, meaning his home base of the castle is completely unguarded. While it is likely he took all essential equipment and the like from it before that, I still believe there might be something useful in the castle that could help us deal with him. Permission to send a small team f our best infiltrators to the castle, Commander?
No need for armies. Send in, hmm, Splinter Cell/Third Echelon and Grendel Squadron types instead. We don't want to end up being a Deus Ex Machina violating a sort of Prime Directive of the Multiverse.
My understanding is that it's not a salute as much as an opening stance, hand on front to provoke an attack to an obvious target that can be easily defended and thus countered.
@@michaelandreipalon359 Umm, yes sir.
(Whispering): Really got to re-read my handbook, because I didn't understand some of that. I'll just pass it along to a trooper that does. lol.
Video idea : How the forms evolved and developed through the release of star wars content.
“Hello there.” -Obi-Wan Kenobi
*checks description* Section Ratio General!
You -IS- really a day of brave.
Form IV!! I’m so ready for it but this was cool. Obi-Wan is the GOAT and you released this just in time for Kenobi too 💯
Loving this series so far. Curious for when you get to Form V, will Djem So and Shien be the same video? Despite being the same form they always felt like radically different styles to me.
I personally think they will be the same. While they have different maneuvers and perhaps tactics, they have the same core philosophy: block and counter, defend and overwhelm, persevere and retaliate. However, you conceptualize it, it is a stalwart defense directly followed by an aggressive offense.
@@Cyclonus5 That’s a good point. While Djem So emphasizes physical strength the most of any form with its wider swings and Shien is much more focused on agility and moving around the battlefield the actual philosophy of the forms are quite similar. Just thought it was worth noting that in practice they tend to work quite differently. Shien is much more of a battlefield attrition style while Djem So is physically overwhelming one’s opponent.
@@sterlingauty4186 I personally think they require the same amount of strength, Shien requiring greater lower body strength for leaps and upper body strength for actively directing blaster bolts. I have this mnemonic in my mind that Form V Shien is the Form I Blast deflection agression and Form IV footwork and aggressive blade work while Form V Djem-So is the Form II linear Dynamics and lightsaber combat focus and Form III defensive blade work.
@@Cyclonus5 I absolutely agree with the makeup of the forms you mentioned. I should have specified that what I meant is of the aggressive Forms Form V allows upper body strength to shine with its wider swings. It can be used without a user having as much upper body strength; as Adi-Gallia did, but that led her to be ill prepared to face Savage Opress. Anakin/Vader and Luke were two of the more well known Djem So users and both were known for their physical strength (Vader especially so but we see Luke doing various exercises to prepare his upper body and other muscles in Empire). I wasn’t trying to disparage Shien, it requires quite a bit of lower body strength given that it and Ataru are the most acrobatic and mobile forms (One can argue that Juyo and Vaapad are as mobile as well which is true but both forms are much more reliant on surrendering to the Force or using one’s opponents emotions against them).
@@sterlingauty4186 I agree with you in that case and I especially like your emphasis on Adi Gallia, as she is my primary model for my own study of Shien. Personally, I think the depictions of Adi Gallia and Plo Koon in Jedi Power Battles well summarizes the distinctions between Shien and Djem-So. As for Juyo/Vapaad, I think Shii-Cho, when taken to it's full curriculum has an acrobatic element, which Ataru emphasizes and codified with the Su Ma Rotations, while Shien and Juyo have a slightly more relaxed version, perhaps the same and Shii-Cho but emphasized sooner in the curriculum.
Soresu can be best described by TTS Rogal Dorn: The best offence is a good defense, therefore I am fortifying this position.
As an attacker.. Grevious only "accepted" the futility of trying to walk into plasma bolts
I read about Form 3 in ROTS novelization...where it explained how it worked and how Obi Wan used it...It made me appreciate Obi Wan more than ever...The reason why he is the master of Form 3 is also the reason why he is the greatest of all the Jedi
Form 4 is pretty interesting it's a mix of defense and attack but the defense is not just light saber focused form 4 incorporates avoidance techniques as well you constantly move and avoid an opponents strikes and strike back when you get the opportunity
Aw hell yeah! I was so hyped for this one it's my favorite form 🤣
Form II and Form III are my favorite lightsaber forms. I also really appreciate the simplicity and zen like nature of Form I.
Form three, an elegant style for a more civilised individual
Every philosopher should take time to look into the Senate.
i am reallt enjoying these
Way of the High Ground
So far, if I understand correctly:
Form I, the 9 master cuts and mostly treating the lightsaber like a conventional sword against unarmored foes.
Form II, an evolution and response to Form I in the same way rapier play was a response to longsword play, particularly the Spanish schools that focused on precision, geometry and focus.
Form III, another response to the change in combat expectations where the goal in conflict is to survive unharmed turning the lightsaber into a shield from the chaos around you. The expected foe now no longer has a lightsaber.
The reason Consulars favored form 3 is also quite telling of the Jedi mentality. They basically have the trademark of using non-violent ways to solve disputes, but Form 3 fits perfectly into the tactic of using your lightsaber for defense while disarming or disabling your opponent using the Force alone.
It's basically accepting what the style teaches and still managing to take obstinate enemies down without ever attacking using your weapon. So you just let them beat themselves tired against your defense and then drop them where they stand, still alive but unable to fight.
This is my favorite form BECAUSE Obi Wan uses it.
Same 😆
Hot take: Obi-Wan is my favorite Jedi, BECAUSE he uses Soresu.
(Qui-Gon is actually my favorite though, philosophically.)
Thanks for bringing this combat Forms of lightsabers users, I hope you do all of them.
How did they come up with the animal names for the Form? Vaapad seemed like the only intuitive one to suit the style?
Definitely excited for the discussion. The hybrid styles are also pretty interesting. Wasn't there a Sith that beat Bane's offense with Form 3, and swapped to Form 2 to actually defeat him? Even Obiwan had to use his wits and sometimes Form 1 or 4 to end a fight. The Labyrinth of Evil novel also has his Form 3 mastered to the point where he can angle bolts in whatever direction he wanted, much like Form 5 is described.
Hence someone who uses Soresu (3) with Shien (5, Blaster Defense/Counter) is practically an even more effective defender. Just add Makashi (2) for some offense, and you're golden.
obi wan was good user of this form for sure, and of course we could see that with of all pic of him using it lol
Very interesting
Looking forward to form 5 and 6
I remember playing Kotor 2 and as soon as I learned this form I'd only use it
Gold as always Geetsy
Honour to you, Geetsly's team. This series - and indeed this video - is a great service to those who love Star Wars. Thank you for teaching what it should mean to be a Jedi.
Loving this in depth look into the forms!
MAn your vid consistency these days is so on point. Love this series and overall the videos. Thank you!!!!
Ah yes Form IV Atreyu the way of the metalcore warrior
7:11 This changed my views on Soresu. Very good point. If I was a Jedi Master, it sounds like the form for me!
He was a cyborg not, a drone. But disarm is definitely a thing in many martial arts forms!
Very much looking forward to your discussion of Form IV, as well as my favorite form, Form V
People keep forgetting that anakin is his sparring partner
Hm...not the Form I'd learn, I am partial to some of the others, especially:
- Makashi (so elegant, making a duel look effortless, but oh so deadly! A dance of blades, step, step, slice, slice, block, parry, riposte, without using a lot of strength - experience wins in those fights! Look at Dooku, he's not in his prime anymore, but he played with Anakin and Obi-Wan for years, till the war experience bridged the gab between them - not to mention that Anakin's form is the counter to Dooku's form, elegant dancing moves aren't so great if your enemy brute forces you and can easily slap aside your blade and derail your elegant moves!)
- Ataru (burns a lot of energy, but it keeps you moving and makes you a hard target)
- Shien/Djem So (the hammer among the forms, power, speed, momentum, precision and breaking through an opponents defenses, also good for blaster-deflection!)
- Niman (but only if you are a true master of the blade, otherwise this form weakens you, as it has few weaknesses, but no strengths either! All Niman practioners at the (first) Battle of Geonosis DIED! In the hands of an "artist" with the lightsaber, like (Darth) Revan? It is the most effective form, then again, Revan knew them all and also used a lot of hard force techniques like teleportation, so he was not only a master of the blade, but a true master of the force, using it more and in more impressive ways than the later Masters during the clone wars!)
I also like (unlike Count Dooku) the integration of a secondary (full sized, I don't like shotos - why? A lightsaber blade has no weight, so wielding two full sized blades is no disadvantage!) blade, especially against multiple oponents with blasters (against someone with a blade, I'd probably revert to one blade myself and use the force with the other hand!)
ready for form 4️⃣!!! but i would love to learn about the different sith forms as well 🫠
"No Form III masters have ever been defeated" Except for that time Count Dooku defeated Obi-Wan Kenobi, the greatest master of Form III in the galaxy.
Obi wasn't a master of Form III at the time, he became one later on.
Ataru is next. my favorite formmm
Please, PLEASE do a video on Sagoro Autem. I know there's not much to go on, but god is that guy a badass.
If you watch Maul's fight against Sidious on Mandalore, you'll notice he takes a Soresu stance, since he knows his goal won't be to win the fight, but, like you said, to survive it.
I'm looking forward to next week. Ataru is my favorite Form.
And here I thought form 4 was most popular among jedi (especially younglings and padawans). Since even if impractical, the arcrobatic and aggressive style looked amazing to the corrupted minds of the jedi peacekeepers before and during the clone wars. Think how even masters like quiqon jin, aobi wan, yoda, skywalker, etc. Decide to master/focus this form. Either at first or sticking with it. Even through it is impractical at best for most users.
Forms 1&2 baby
Sweet 👍👍
Honestly, this reminds me of being in _Fate/Grand Order_ . I summoned a Saber class Heroic Spirit who, in your terms, practiced Form Three (3) & simply blocked every bullet from a machine gun nest in the Middle East (technically part of an international spec ops group, reformed right after September 11th, 2001)…
P.S. if anybody can make/show me a video where a metal sword deflects bullets from a machine gun until they’re out of ammo, or similar, that’ll be great…
I really need to play those visual novels someday. Any recommendations for a PC player like me?
🤷♂️, I’m more into the anime, @@michaelandreipalon359. However, I’d love to make a movie, a reality show on the silver screen to be precise, starring the most famous living witches & wizards of and/or in the United States of America; I’d call it _Fate/America_ & I do ponder which Heroic Spirit(s) each contestant might ‘summon’…
Cheers
Jedi will literally invent an entire saber form based around blocking forever, instead of just using an effective shield.
Man, only in recent years can I really appreciate how much lore was put into kotor II:Sith Lords. Disney doesn't seem to have the same level of appreciation for what george lucas created smh 😩
Do you think that's what was being used in the iconic scene with Obi-Wan fighting Anikan? Cause they basically mirrored each other?
This is why obi wan kept his hands against count dooku
And in swtor, sith using this form have a strong backhand
Why are there so many lightsaber forms, it's almost unessasary.
Not really that unnecessary, since they have their own benefits and disadvantages.
Also, seven is not that many of an amount.
Because each style benefits a certain class of Jedi. Depending whether you were a counselor, sentinel etc.
They each represent a philosophy and physical method of attack. There could easily be more.
*i remember the may 4th joke lmfao*
Sor-ee-suu? I always say sor-eyy-suuu.
Was it just me or did Darth Zannah in 7:31 look kinda like one of the Olsen twins
Hi Geetslys
Forms:
1 neutral
2 water💧
3 earth 🌳
4 air 💨
5 FIRE🔥
6 light 💥
7 DARKNESS ☠
0 heart ❤
In one way this seems a bit selfish though; defending yourself and maybe those behind you, while a (possibly non-lethal) attack could end a threat for everyone.
Not the only way to look at it, but still.
I am not sure form 3 can even be called a style, it is just tightening up the guard and requires cross training for strikes. Arguably the same can be said of 7, it requires another style as a base and expresses it agressively. It is not like dual wielding, taunting and integrating force powers are unique styles either. Maybe you can say it is similar to Aikido but even they are pretty good at breaking wrists..
This may be the last time I watch content from this channel.
UA-cam's money hungry adds have gotten so bad now that they're actively trying to prevent me from watching content from this channel and I'm not having it anymore.
Oh shit, I didn't realize...
My and my friends are on the same UA-cam Premium Plan, only $18. Never gotten ads from UA-cam in over a year. I genuinely forget that most people still deal with them.
Hm, interesting.
I mean nobody in star wars canon & legends tops kenobi in the form 3
All hail Obi wan Kenobi....
Anyone who rips on jedi using more offense based forms for not following there ideals of being peace makers and defenders of peace is a fool sometimes the only way to keep or defend peace is to take out the threat to that peace and constantly refusing attacking is not effective defense of peace
R u really gonna make wait 7 days😭
Form III I ironically find to be one of the more outrageous forms realistically speaking. It’s only effective for space wizards and droids. To meat bags it’s a death sentence as we can’t accurately predict five seconds of the future with any real consistency. Thus you’re stuck constantly reacting to your opponent and letting them control the fight.
After Master Kenobi, I am the greatest Jedi Master form 3 practitioner. Thanks for showing me but 1 time.🙄
booboo gaga
Probably my least favorite form but still a good video
Jedi are hypocrites, in other news water is wet. 🤣