567: Christian Nationalism Roundup & the Doctrine of Hell
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2024
- Phil’s file of Christian Nationalism stories has gotten full, so we’re covering a number of them this week. We explore the beliefs of early Christian Nationalists from the 1920s, how modern Christian Nationalism can’t shake its racist roots, and why it’s gaining popularity with some followers of Reformed theology. Skye explains what Christian Nationalism shares in common with the Prosperity Gospel, and Kaitlyn dismantles Christian Nationalists who say their views are rooted in God’s design in nature. Then, we share one of our most popular Holy Post bonus features with everyone where Christian Taylor asks Skye about what the Bible really says, and does not say, about hell. Plus, another Christian college professor got Tisby’d.
Patreon Bonus:
Christian Asks - Why isn't God's proper name, Yahweh, in our English Bibles?
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0:00 - Intro
1:31 - Show Starts
4:14 - Theme Song
4:36 - Julie Moore fired by Taylor University
17:59 - Christian Nationalism’s Racist Roots
27:16 - New Review of Stephen Wolfe’s book on Christian Nationalism
36:20 - A review of Mere Christiandom
45:11 - Christian Nationalism Fascism
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58:54 - Christian Asks Intro
59:53 - What is Hell?
1:16:37 - Check out Holy Post Plus - www.holypost.com/plus
1:17:08 - End Credits
Links mentioned in news segment:
Taylor professor Julie Moore cited Jemar Tisby on her syllabus. Then she lost her job.
religionnews.com/2023/05/03/t...
Old-school Christian nationalism’s avatar of racism, antisemitism and conspiracies
religionnews.com/2023/03/07/f...
Beware the 'Christian Prince'
reason.com/2023/05/13/beware-...
A Review of Mere Christendom by Doug Wilson
g3min.org/a-review-of-mere-ch...
Christian Nationalism Talks Religion, But Walks Fascism
religioninpublic.blog/2020/02...
Other resources:
Holy Post website: www.holypost.com/
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It truly grieves me to hear about the “natural order of things.” As a black woman it makes me so 😢 that people believe I am inferior. Am I not made in Gods image? I have prayed & asked God why? Why just because I look different am I considered less than? It is wickedness & idolatry to continue to believe nationalism is the way. Jesus died for the world not America. I hate that people have weak poor theology. On judgement day they will be very surprised bc no where does Jesus say hate oriole in His name. Lord have mercy on us all.
deas9410...those who claim to be Christians and who subscribe to 'the natural order of things', will not be in Heaven with their racism, and are among the 'many' that Jesus doesn't know. Matt.7:21-23.
As a white woman, it grieves me that any so called Christians could think their race is superior. This goes for Americanism also. So completely mislead from the message of Jesus and you are right, no one is inferior neither is any country inferior. I don't know what happened to the white church but they are so on the wrong path with this completely non Biblical nonsense
@@shanteladams7613hat Christian, by name(s), has said that they are superior by virtue of the amount of melanin levels in their skin surface?
@@patrickc3419 google “racist church father quotes”…
@@patrickc3419 it isn’t written about melanin, it’s usually about euphemisms like “western civilization” and “Christendom” which, when you look at what they’re talking about, is Western European imperialism.
It’s not really about melanin, as albinos are not considered part of that superior group (though they have their own cultural nonsense that we rarely see in European cultures).
Thanks for discussing Christian nationalism, it has been something that has harmed my faith over the years. Having had Christians refuse to call me their brother in Christ merely for the color of my skin has disgusted me greatly.
Then they were not Christians. They were living in (or currently live in) a sin that will send them to Hell. That’s evil and despicable.
@turkeypedal speaking of liberal tears 😢! Lol
@@patrickc3419 is anyone who ever did anything bad not really a Christian? What's the point of grace if all "real" Christians are already good?
@@micahlantz905 oh yes, because conservatives are never triggered by things they don't like.
@@micahlantz905 even for a "conservative", this is a disgusting comment. Do you have any idea how bad it is to make the worst comment in a conversation that involves Patrick C?
One of the problems is that too many evangelicals identify themselves by what they are against, more than what they are for.
I’d really be careful with that statement, as it was attributed to the false teacher Carl Lentz (of Hillsong notoriety).
@@patrickc3419 broken clock is right twice a day.
Kaitlyn nailed it. We need to let go of ideas like left behind that try to scare people into following Jesus. Jesus is too wonderful to imply that it requires a shotgun wedding to follow him.
It is good news, not bad news.
May the Lord rebuke you! How dare you take upon your lips a thing too holy to touch. If you would like to know Yesuha's greatness, sit at the terror he drank at the cross. Cowards will have their part in the lake of fire...Jesus does not exist to provide you a new fur coat. I recommend humbling yourself before commenting on what it means to follow Christ.
Professor Julie Moore was one of my professors a couple decades ago at a different university. She was one of the most shaping of my professors. Truly memorable. Truly wise. I'm heartbroken to hear this nonsense continuing through our culture.
It’s sad 😢 that there is enough material to have regular updates on Christian nationalism. Lord help us
I love that the idea of Hell not being eternal is becoming more and more accepted.
That is a false teaching; something that heretics such as Rob Bell has taught. Hell is very real, very eternal, and something Jesus spoke more about then he did Heaven.
@@patrickc3419 I mean, anyone can say that, sure, but it's well supported biblically imo.
@@StevenDavisPhoto I’ll just throw a few verses documenting the reality and the just terror of Hell, then get back to watching “AntiChrist and his Ruin” with my family
-Matthew 10:28
-Matthew 13:42
-Mark 9:43
-Luke 12:5
-Luke 16:19-31
-Revelation 20:10
-Revelation 20:15
-Revelation 21:8
-2 Thessalonians 1:9
-2 Peter 2:4
@@patrickc3419 Funny thing is, that's literally a scripture used to argue hell isn't eternal, since it says that God can can destroy your soul in hell. Once destroyed, you wouldn't be there anymore.
I think you want Matthew 25:46.
@@ZipplyZane The soul isn’t destroyed in Hell (sometimes called annihilationism). See Mark 9:48.
Caitlin hit it!! Gifts cannot be foisted. The sin of christian nationalism is the force - the might makes right, and it does not place trust in the Spirit. It quenches it!
So, here is a question I have been discussing with my study group: We've probably all been told and repeated that Hell is separation from God. But if God is omnipresent, then there is no place that He cannot be- in some form or other, including hell, whatever/wherever that is. This helps me with that question a lot. Thanks!
People who want to live only amongst people similar to themselves need to move out of the US. Isn’t this the most ethnically diverse country in the world? If you think that’s unnatural, you are free to go.
Heaven is filled with all nations. So if you don't like being around different people or want to be color blind, outer darkness will be more your speed.
Alternate title: “Watch Kaitlyn Look Concerned and Horrified for Fifty-Five Minutes.”
Kaitlyn reactions are the best reactions. Not as fun as her news of the butt reactions though.
Oh wow?! Casey, I think I did a convention with you a few years back... a Harry Potter convention in Vegas 7ish years back...
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 Haha, true!
@@thezenlu Oh wow, I remember that convention. That was fun!
@@helgmelia84 yeah, that con was pretty fun! Your prints were lovely!
Differing "hell theologies" have had a tremendous impact on how so many relate to God and faith. The "Where did you see God? Podcast" has an episode called "To hell and back" that shares a rarely-heard powerful account. The power of fear is so often used against us, but God is able to do abundantly more than we could ask or imagine.
If ever there was a "doctrine of devils" the myth (from paganism) of an eternally burning hell is one of them. I am truly grateful that I was bought up in a denomination that does not believe in this doctrine; otherwise, I probably would not be a Christian today. The thought of a "loving" God that would torture a person throughout eternity for their 60 or 70 years of sin is detestable - and. praise God, NOT Biblical. Thank you, Skye for tackling this subject .
Hell is very (very) much so a real place, a place of just wrath of which Christ spoke of more than He did of Heaven. And apart from the sovereign grace of God each and every person is running there as fast as their pair of sinful feet can carry them.
@@patrickc3419 what passages support your view of hell?
"The Left-Overs" got me! 😂
I bet Phil would've been able to pull that off, had he been able to.
I'm always glad when the Holy Post weighs in on Christian Nationalism. I've been disturbed by news of the very books and names mentioned in this episode. The destructive ideologies getting bandied about should be exposed as much as possible, so I hope there is more coverage in future episodes. Phil, open up that file and keep it coming!
American Christianity. Fostering the belief Jesus is too weak for the world His father created.
There is a new heaven and a new earth, but not a new hell. So everyone not in heaven or earth will be gone and their memory will be no more.
Thank you, Skye. Now I have a vision of veggies in the far back corner of my fridge weeping because they have been left behind
“I wish we’d all been ready”
@@ryanclegg3727 or 'eaten'?
LOL "Leftovers"😂
🤣🤣🤣
I knew it would be too late, but at the moment I heard K mention the Nick Cage Left Behind, I literally shouted, "NO!! DON'T DO IT!!!!" 😭😭😭😭😭
It’s soooo bad!!!
Somehow it makes the Kirk Cameron ones seem good
"God put me in charge, so shut up and do as I say," sounds very "Headship."
Sounds like how I grew up, UPCI
The idea of racism being “natural” tracks. I mean, sin is natural, right, given our fallenness? We need to get out of the mindset that just because something comes easy to humanity makes it a good thing or something to embrace. Strife, selfishness, greed, envy - all come naturally to us. Super easy, barely an inconvenience. It are they good? Are they the way God wants us to live? Are they the way of Jesus? Nope.
You should pitch a movie about this.
That “natural” is a good thing is… problematic.
Drink up Socrates, it’s natural!
@@Justanotherconsumer the comment wasn't that natural is good, but that it's easy.
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 I think he was being sarcastic, and was agreeing with me. Hemlock, what killed Socrates, was natural. And deadly.
@@reenchanted that's fair.
Here's the list that Phil read by Jason Stanley when he described fascism:
1. Ideology built in reference to a mythic past.
2. Populist support for strong-man demagogues.
3. A culture of anti-intellectualism, including anti-education and anti-science beliefs.
4. An ideology that views social hierarchies as normal and necessary.
5. Idealization of patriarchal families.
6. Peace maintained by authoritarian law and order tactics.
7. Strongly pro-nativist anti-pluralism.
8. Foments cultural anxiety about sexual deviants.
9. Has a pervasive victim mentality.
It's kinda like Jeff Foxworthy, except instead of things indicating that you might be a redneck, you may be a fascist instead.
I believe a "Say it louder for the people in the back!" is in order 😂
@@ohms7309 yep, I do what I can, thanks.
Eco’s essay on Ur-Fascism has some other notables.
1. The ideology is vague and syncretic - it doesn’t have to make logical sense or be consistent, it just “feels right.”
2. Peace is the enemy of fascism. There can be no victory, it is an eternal struggle.
3. Dying for the cause and death generally is glorified.
4. The enemy (and there’s always an enemy) is always simultaneously a massive threat and pathetically weak.
If the ideology makes sense, it’s unusual for fascism.
@@Justanotherconsumer indeed.
@@Justanotherconsumer it's amazing that we have two separate lists of 14 characteristics of fascism, one by Umberto Eco in the 90s and another by Lawrence Britt in the 00s, and they both describe Christian Nationalism and the MAGA movement perfectly.
Christian nationalism is not new. The only thing that appears new is that we have given a name to it. Growing up in the northwest Chicago suburban area and attending predominantly white evangelical Christian schools from grades K-12 and a Christian university for a graduate degree, I would say most evangelicals would be classified as Christian nationalists or at minimum sympathizers toward this belief. The strange thing is most Christian nationalist usually tend be strong supporters of the Confederacy, a nation that was in open rebellion toward the U.S.
Ahh…. I’m not prepared to say “most” Christian Nationalists support the Confederacy. I don’t know anyone outside the south, Christian Nationalist or not, who supports the Confederacy. I agree that at least a low-level Christian Nationalism is part of the Evangelical subculture. But I don’t think that pairs with support for the Confederacy in the North.
@@76JStucki The reformed Calvinist evangelical Christian high school that I attended in Arlington Heights, IL literally had the Confederate flag hanging up in one of the school offices. I would see it every day whenever the office door was open. They also had staff at the school talking about how the south would rise again. For the Southern Baptist leaning Christian school I attended for grades K-6 in Schaumburg, IL, I remembered how they indoctrinated us to see Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson as role models to emulate and often sang Dixie. If that's not behavior demonstrating support for the Confederacy, I don't know what is.
At the genome level we are 99 percent the same, not black-not white...all humans. God knew what He was doing and in Him are no errors. Follow man at your own peril.
Finally, a conversation about Christian nationalism!
"Christian nationalism" is 99% Nationalism and 1% Christian. ... And that 1% is suspect at best.
A huge problem with labeling Christian Nationalists (and all their ilk in this sector of conservative evangelicals) as "White Supremacists" or "Racists" is that they truly don't see themselves that way. Living here in the deep South, I've had a few very troubling conversations with people who I otherwise thought of as intelligent, God-fearing, Christ-loving, KIND people. Friends and family. The deep core of what they were all saying (and I found stunning in their surety about it) is that not only do they not consider themselves racist, or hating black people, but that what they suggest is intended to directly BENEFIT black people. As ridiculous as what I'm about to say sounds, it was presented to me with absolute straight-faced sincerity. Basically, it was suggested to me that if we still had Slavery today, that black people would be much, much better off and much happier. The primary idea behind this is that black people (in this estimation) are responsible for most of the crime in the country, and most of it is black on black crime, (drugs, gangs, etc), so if slavery was still in place, black people especially would be protected from this level of crime. And also that if slavery still existed that black families (meaning dads) would stay together because they'd be forced to. My face must have accurately expressed my complete and utter disbelief at what they'd just said because this person next said to me, 'Plantation owners have gotten a bad rap. The vast majority of slave owners were good people who treated their slaves very well. It was only a few bad apples that got all the press." I was close to having an aneurism so stunned was I that this was a conversation that was taking place in the 21st century (and with many others in the years since then). I was able to express my horror at their words, but I'm still stunned I had to utter, out loud, "But... there's no world, no situation, no justification for HUMANS OWNING OTHER HUMANS." It's a conversation/debate you discover you're unprepared for because you never think it's one you're going to have with someone who isn't wearing a white hood and being an obvious racist. I don't know if my horror at their words convinced them they were wrong, or just convinced them that I wasn''t going to be sympathetic to their ideas, but I usually only have one conversation with these people on this topic. They never bring it up with me again, and I'm not about to start a conversation off with, "Uh... so... you still think it's okay for humans to own other humans?"
I had similar conversations with a wide enough range of people that I can confidently say that at least MOST of these people expressing these ideas are probably more accurately labeled as White EXCEPTIONALISTS. That all men should have equal opportunities and rights... but that white men in charge is best for EVERYONE, especially black people. They truly believe that if white people were fully in charge and able to dictate what people do (especially black people) that all of the problems 'caused by' or afflicting black people will be solved. Is this still a racist mindset? Technically. But calling it that is not going to move the needle for those people seeing that mindset for what it is. They see themselves as heroes for EVERYONE, black AND white.
Christian Nationalists are just an offshoot of this mindset. It's more fuel to convince themselves that they're the good guys. Calling them racists is going to just make them push back even harder and prevent them from seeing themselves as far off the rails as they really are. I don't know how to reach these people except to just model the correct behavior and speech for them and pray that God opens their eyes and hearts to the truth.
That's truly horrifying. Wow. Maybe you can tell them, you know what would be better for black people today other than the US still having slavery? Is for all the people to have never been dragged out of their homeland against their will to be sold as property. In a world of hypothetical let's go with that one. And I wonder where they get this rosy idea that "most plantation owners were good". Have they spoke to many slaves from the 1800's and got a consensus on this? 🤦♀️
@@shanteladams7613 it's pretty common down here to hear a ton of revisionist history about the old South. "The War wasn't about slavey, it was about the North losing money" is the most common one. It's a whole people struggling to find a way to paint themselves as good and noble and misunderstood, even though all history and evidence points to the opposite.
@@VictorDiGiovanni ask why black people are, statistically speaking, more likely to be poor and allegedly involved in criminal activity. When they give a reason (likely something related to "culture", ask why. When they say something, ask why again.
Eventually, they'll be forced to give either genetics or environment as the answer. They'll either need to own up to being racist or acknowledge that there are things that can and should be done to help to rectify past injustices.
You’re far off the rails, Christian Nationalism is not about an ethnic group.
@@MarkDouglass-dt9ky I didn't say Christian Nationalists were racists. I said they were of the same ilk as the racist people I was talking about. That said, the Venn diagram of the two groups has a huge overlap.
Looking forward to this
Hi, furry fan here! I promise you, we are neither an ethnicity nor a figment of your imagination!
and what was this about conservatives being worried about censorship and cancelling?
Oh, right, it’s not about the cancelling, it’s just about ideological purity.
To see just how this developed in the early 1900's please read Jeff Sharlet's extremely well written and researched books, "The Family" and " Undertow." Esoecially dig into the person Abraham Vereide, who got the ball rolling, even on an international level, who favored Nazi leadership and ideology. I have read three other books detailing this frightening development , but Sharlet's dies the deepest dive, which parallels Rachel Maddow's excellent podcast " Ultra." Sgarlet lays it all out step by gruesome step. Steven King's horror novels can't come close to what Sharlet lays out. It is even worse than we thought.
Good discussion. It's interesting that you mentioned the religious wars in Europe, because Quakers and Baptists formed as a reaction to that. The Church has been around this block before. For example, if you like the religious liberty clause in the First Amendment, one of the main people you can thank for it is Baptist preacher John Leland.
How did he really feel about Christian Nationalism?
"As a populist, Leland was a talented wordsmith and he deployed a host of names throughout his lifetime for state-sponsored religion. He called it “spiritual tyranny,” “a shocking monster,” “a creature of state,” “the worst hag above hell,” “the greatest engine of tyranny in the world,” “anti-Christocracy,” and “that rotten nest-egg, which is always hatching vipers.”"
From Obbie Tyler Todd, in the Online Library Reading Room. I know the anti-Christrocracy quote comes from Leland's sermon "A Christrocacy".
I like reading early American Baptists, Quakers and other "low church" types because they show that Puritanism wasn't the only way Americans thought back then. So maybe you should invite some experts on that part of history.
13:27 As a Christian who went to a private christian school from grade 6-12, this resounds with me. I was taught ZILCH on evolution except it was “evil”.
Do you know how much this set me back in college and life?
I wouldn’t say “evil”. If you specifically meant “macro evolution”, certainly a lie, or a falsehood.
I don’t know a soul who doesn’t believe in “micro evolution” (i.e. the wolf became a coyote, which became a dog, which became another breed of dog, etc.) Certainly that is true. But fish became a frog which became a cat, which because a duck, etc? No; that is insanity.
Obviously, different private schools do different things, but no, no one should send their children to a public school. Ever.
@@patrickc3419 if your ideas are the best, then why are you so afraid of any competition? Can't you win in the free marketplace of ideas?
@@patrickc3419 Thanks for the parenting advice. And I wasn’t asking/arguing viewpoints on creation and evolution… but I think it is a good idea to hear both sides. I was not given the other side, except to vilify it. That was my point
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 People like this don’t realize that forbidding people from hearing other points of view does more harm later in life to faith than anything else. Authoritarian holds on viewpoints strangles
@@ryanclegg3727 Yeah it wasn’t parenting advice, just sharing that it is VERY unwise for parents to send their children to Caesar for education. I know that not everyone is in a financial situation to be able to send their kids to a private school, nor is everyone in a situation to homeschool; a co-op or otherwise. That is when Christian parents need to come together, pray, and set about starting a private school, no matter how small, within their local church.
I WILL share one personal, pretty recent story of one of the multiple reasons why I am sharing this with you. A female cousin of mine (not a Christian), has an adopted, biracial daughter; grade school aged. She recently came home from her government-run indoctrination center, went up to her mother, and said “Mommy, you were a slaveholder”?
😳😳😳😳😳😳
@Holy Post I listen to and read a lot of Jemar Tisby either by way of his substack or his Footnotes and Pass the Mic podcasts. While he may have been trained up in the reformed tradition, he has become explicitly more Conesian in his theology in recent years. So, would you consider James Cone orthodox?
Question: From a monetization standpoint, is better for us to watch on UA-cam or your own website?
Carlton Pearson lost his church when he began to believe differently regarding hell.
Because heresy always begats more heresy, he eventually gave into embracing homosexuality as well. So yes---his church was on a slippery slide
@@impalaman9707 eventually they’ll get to the heresy that men beating their wives are wrong and other real heresies!
(Yes, this was sarcasm, I have no respect for ideological purity - we know only in part, anyone claiming to have all the answers is a ravenous wolf.)
@@Justanotherconsumer Typical "straw man" argument which snide, sarcastic liberals thrive on for the lack of anything of substance. Of course, no self respecting Christian finds a biblical defense for wife beating
@@impalaman9707 no, but abusers still find a way regardless.
@@impalaman9707 you want substance? What passages teach that homosexuality is a sin?
I've always heard that Lincoln had a high voice. But I'm STILL waiting on somebody to finally find that long-lost audio recording of the Gettysburg Address that confirms that Lincoln in fact sounded just like Johnny Cash.
Excellent response Kaitlyn....
I thought the inclusion of the "hell" discussion AFTER the main discussion of Christian nationalism was very thought-provoking. (Thank you VERY much for including it!)
Please consider the idea that these very fascist Christian nationalists don't have the concept they are doing evil. On the contrary, they are committing -- or planning to commit -- great evil and think they are being supported by the Almighty, and by scripture. It is also interesting that the timing of this, speaking of evil, is coming as the trial gets underway for the man who killed and injured so many at the Tree of Life Synagogue back in 2018.
The person was motivated to destroy lives because of the support the synagogue was giving to migrants and refugees from south of our border.
On the subject of hell: I have found lots of support for annihilationism and universal reconciliation in the text. And I cannot think of a doctrine less just or less merciful than Eternal Conscious Torment. My position on the other two waivers based on the person I'm talking to. Neither necessarily exclude a concept of hell.
I have so many ?? I want on the show and Phil when I was in charge of Childresn church years ago and many had discipline issues in what to teach kids or make them mind. They almost all quit. I AM a ele teacher with some skills but I bought with the Children's committee ministry money..
All of the Vegetales out in the 90's to early 2000's!!! The kids watched and learned and were quite during big church time. So big supporter!!
Phil is so funny .. Love the way things are discussed and Phil is an evangelical like me I guess. I thought I was protestant but no... Then I'm learning from Skye.. and Kristen too. I'm 56 and love learning more truth about Jesus and Bibical knowledge. I was raised S Baptist but go to the Singing Christian church.
I FINALLY learned through Skye's book and Phils history quick lesson.The social gospel part..Wow I was taught different. .and now get it!! Thanks!! WOW.
##### Oh my husband knew about the 7ft Jesus Statue. I did not
I'm tired but Skye's mood & replies are priceless. His Answers to Phil on the man that built the 7ft Jesus in the Ozark..😂 I'm tired and on overload today too..
Thank you for standing up for unpopular positions
The discussion of hell.
Growing up in a Pentecostal church, we k8nda got both messages back in my day. We were taught that to live a life of mirroring God's love is what dtew people to Christ. At the same time, hell and eternal punishment were the result of sinning or not being Christian. As I got older, I started to read the Bible. I read about hell and all the places Christians were pointing to show hell to be this terrible eternal punishment and stopped finding it a compelling argument.
What I have seen is change. Evangelical denominations and independent churches change, sometimes by the decade slowly. Sometimes, like now, yearly. Evangelicalism has a problem of being a populist religion. The doctrine of the faith doesn't rest on a foundation of scripture where change comes from understanding the writings, the language & time it was written, and the intent of the writers. It comes from the culture the church is set in. They create their own god in their image instead of following the God of Jesus and his teachings. The Evangelical belief will always follow the culture, never God. Evangelicalism, by its very nature, is a religion of idolatry that is held to no standard except what the audience is willing to accept. You see this in the way that as the politics of Evangelicals changed, grew more regressive, it has infected their belief and the way they read the Bible with doctrine that goes directly against the teachings of Jesus and the rise of nationalism in the church.
The far right isn't doing what God told them to do. So even if doing everything God told you to do would lead to prosperity, no one should expect what they are doing to lead to that situation.
Jesus made it clear how the goats and sheep would be separated. It's a theme repeated throughout the Bible. But they hate the poor too much to do what they're told. It also says the world is not something for us to concern ourselves with or judge.
Psalm 119 talks about how you should do what God told you to do because it's better to suffer doing right than to suffer for doing wrong. Another theme repeated in the Bible.
Taylor's current president previously conducted a reign of terror at Gordon College.
I was lightly connected to Liberty back in the mid-80s and it was pretty bad then too
Christian is correct *for me*. As a non believer I dont fear death. Perhaps how it may happen, but otherwise I look at it like before I was born. As a Christian I was terrified of death. In talking with my mother I can tell she is terrified of death and masks it a confidence in heaven.
You should, because you’re going to be dead a lot longer than you were alive. And you can’t be a “former Christian”. You may have said a sinner’s prayer, been a member of a church or raised your hand to an alter call, but you were never a Christian. (Along with being very dishonoring to your own mother). There are no ex Christians (see 1 John 2:19).
@@patrickc3419 imagine being you 🤣🤣🤣
@@thetruest7497 Again, you were never a Christian. You hate God, and serve the false god who’s reflection you see in the mirror. The fact you responded to me speaks volumes.
You really should repent and believe the Gospel while your heart is still beating.
A really good friend of mine from high school that went into ministry for many years told me he is moving toward postmillennialism. It was a facepalm moment to say the least. He is a very smart thorough and thoughtful person too. James White went this direction too. Not dumb either. Theonomy is purely this world statist in orientation not a Kingdom yet one. Btw, I think Skye did a great presentation on the theology of hell. Very close to the perspective of the view I hold of eventual annihilation. I do think that the mention of hell in witnessing, would still have some effect in a secular culture. I personally know of the testimonies of some stating that it did effect their coming to Christ. The Greeks and other cultures did understand on a holding place for the dead awaiting judgement (Hades). This might be why Paul didn't mention it and focused the message of the one true God and message of repentance from idols.
Great show! Thanks, everyone ❤
rapture anxiety... when your church screens thief in the night, your parents make you watch it, and you are 8 and never got to see disney movies because the witches will scare you.
I'm standing up and cheering what Kaityn said about the gifts that followers of Jesus should model. His messages don't need to be forced on people if we really believe in His gifts. That's the big question. Do we believe what He brought to us or not? The fastest way to reduce His future followers is to shame sinners and force people to do something through fear. By the way .. we are all sinners. My contention is that as His follower, we are not asked to fix everyone. We are asked to follow His lead and he will expand in us and help us to spread His love by example not through being forced. It's not about the exterior of our human body (skin color, eye color, body shape ,... etc). It's about our soul.
The Economist Magazine ranked the US at number 25th in the world for Democracy. Countries such as New Zealand, Australia, Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, and Norway were in the top ten.
I love Blueland hand soap! The tablets work great and I have saved so many plastic bottles!
And it's too bad that one of those graduating servants didn't give Skye their towel.
I liked the discussion of hell. Best book related: The Hope of the Gospel by George MacDonald.
No mention on Universalism in the Hell discussion? Not even to refute it?
Good evening from the SF Bay Area. There are other ways of understanding judgement than these ancient patriarchal pronouncements. We have evolved in our religious comprehension from stoning errant wives and a God who has all the worst traits of violent humanity cloaked in a very primitive idea of love. I pray you can reach for a new level of enlightenment without all the trappings of fear. God will not "punish" you for seeking higher truth. Blessings.
So what do you do about an African nation like Zambia, who has declared themselves a "Christian nation" that Jesus is Lord over? They're not predominantly "white"? (and don't give me "they had religion forced down the throats by white Christian missionaries" nonsense, either! Only the Holy Spirit can draw people to Himself)
The amazing thing is this: God is not even religious, and as Christians,we've got Jesus mostly wrong...very wrong. What about FREE WILL of the individual soul?
You read the Bible from cover to cover, each of the 66 letters/books, you won’t find the term “free will” a single time. No man chooses God on his own accord.
@@patrickc3419 so God's the puppet master who sends people to hell? Doesn't sound loving to me.
Great discussion of hell! I do have to ask - do you truly think it is just for god to torture people (even finitely) for not believing in the correct mythology? That's not really something that a person can choose.
Skye from 43:20 to tge end of that topic.. You exolained that with such high vocabulary and I wS thinking that in a not as nice way. You did well. Im sorry but this is deep and im trying to understand.. But most of the Right/ right MAGA people I know , or saw on tv in interviews arent thinking anywhere near our deep history review. .. I guess some may. ??
*** They dont have the nuanced thinking of sophistication in theology.. That is so nice and very true. Idk what happened to these people. I really do see since 2016.. A HUGE dufference in those Christians or not with Education vs.. OH my.. sad. IT is humbling.
So I suppose the doctrine of this channel regarding hell is that at some point after burning in hell you will cease to exist. This is the great wish of all demons. After committing continual sin against an infinitely holy God, they will wish they can be let off. Except the living word of God makes it emphatically clear that the worm (the damned) will not die. Yes, there maybe hotter parts of hell reserved for lucifer and the worst of his minions, but make no mistake, the worm will not die.
I'm so tired ans I'm laughing so hard at this. I CANT get to the bottom of what Christian Nationalism really is... Idk if it is all a mess all believe the same.. Idk. I LISTENED to a guy and preachers a few things I agreed with mostly I was confused on what in the World he believed. Now I'm back with my Holy Post Friends.. I love you in Christian love. I'm laughing and needed this too.
Isnt our natural inclination toward sin?
Yes.
Romans 3:10-11. Romans 3:23. Ecclesiastes 7:20. Jeremiah 17:9.
Yep.
“Natural” is also known as “ways of the world.”
Did Jesus die for all of sins of the elect, or just some of them, and the rest would have to be burned off with fire (temporary torment/torture). Again, are all of the elects sins “forgotten “ and forever deleted, never to be brought up again?
Correct. Christ died for all of the sins of all of the elect.
Jesus wasn't apolitical he had a commoness that politicians backed by media lack, Kaitlan.
Maybe she should write a book about how Christianity and politics relate to each other. Oh, wait...
But The Leftovers is a show
Is God's law immoral or unjust in any way?
The only bedfellows stranger than Reformed theology and the "prosperity gospel" (and trust me---those two don't like each other at all!) is the Jesus Hippies from the early 70s (who eschewed materialism and lived by the Acts 2 "ethos") and "prosperity gospel"---but the latter bedfellows found common ground with Charismania and dispensationalism, and then some of those hippies eventually bought into Kenneth Copeland
The comment "....God has not completely deprived us of.... "needs addressing - let's get more towards truth: God has not deprived us of anything; we have deprived ourselves of anything, and we have done this through our own ignorance and laziness. Ignorance, for just following like sheep and laziness to seek truth for ourselves.
You dont know me phil. Keep an eye on your pride.
Dont judge!!! I liked Left Behind!!! Now on the other hand Nick Cage Left Behind needs to be burnt ans buried and I want everyone to agree to petend that it never existed
What a preety girl!
The firsr church shared everything. Very socialist.. ❤😅
Oof. Listening to the back half of the show. Rare miss by Skye. Hell is eternal, and there is eternal suffering for those who from the deepest part of their soul say, “No,” to God. As CS Lewis put it, the doors to hell are locked from the inside. Those who are in hell have chosen to be there, and the suffering they experience is that of separation from God. The light of God’s love that those in heaven bask in is the very same light that tortures those poor, eternal souls like the fires of Gehenna. That’s hell, Skye.
What did the word for "eternal" mean when Scripture was written?
God does not care to make humans feel better by somehow suggesting that the punishment of their sins will only be for “a white” after which they will simply cease to exist. We ought not to care either. It’s simple really when you think about it. When a person dies, time as we know it no longer exists. It is therefore meaningless to say that the soul of the sinner will be punished for “a while” after which it is annihilated. After this world everyone enters into a permanent state, either of joy with Jesus or sorrow without him. This is the testimony of scripture for all who can accept it. See Daniel 12:2; Matthew 25:41 and Matthew 16:26.
@@Str20ng What did the word for "eternal" mean when Scripture was written?
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 Respectfully, it is irrelevant for me to know what “eternal” meant when the Bible was written. That approach to reading scripture would require me to constantly keep reading it with a view to the historical context; and if I was a simple carpenter with basic education, it would imply that I could never really understand the true meaning of scripture. I would always need a seminary trained minister or someone with access to encyclopedias and commentaries to teach me the true meaning of the words of Jesus in the Bible. That approach is not sustainable and I contend, quite unnecessary. The scriptures can be read and understood at face value by anyone who approaches them with sincerity and humility. And on this matter of permanent exile after death, away from the presence of God for every soul who rejects Jesus and would rather live their own way, the word of God is clear. But as I wrote before, this truth will not be received by everyone. Let those who can receive it do so. I guess we will all find out soon enough.
@@Str20ng I get it, but that's assuming accuracy on the part of translators. Translators who are, and have always been, human, with all of the biases and imperfections that go along with it.
I understand if you are unable or unwilling to do the work needed to understand the original language of Scripture and to understand It from other perspectives. It's a lot of work, and it's not for everyone.
Even so, saying that understanding the meaning and usage of the Greek and Hebrew words in which Scripture was originally written is unnecessary or unimportant is just not the case.
oddly enough most Europeans considered themselves Irish,English,Swedish, or the country of origin
It's much easier to do that when you actually have a historical record of your lineage.
And the “White” people never let them forget it if they weren’t one of the favored few nationalities (mostly English).
Legacy of the colonial period, basically.
Has Larry the Cucumber ever been Abraham Lincoln?
Jesus has all authority here on earth now. He commanded His people to baptize the nations, then teach them to obey all that He commands. All the nations will be Christian nations sooner or later. Might as well stop fighting His plans and get with the program!
But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
- Matthew 28:16-20
If people choose God that is one thing, they have to be given the choice. You cannot force them whether you like it or not.
When progressives make the "wrong side of history" argument, I look at the Bible as "God's ultimate history book" and He includes a section on how it ends, as well, and it doesn't end well for those who make that argument. They may win the temporary battles, but God's people ultimately win the war
That sword cuts both ways.
Keeping slavery was the conservative position. Only allowing land owning white men to vote was the conservative position.
Are we at the end of history now? Do we have everything perfectly figured out?
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 No. But God will make all things right in the Millenial reign of Yeshua
@@impalaman9707 eschatology is a whole other topic, but even in your view, is it really good to just give up and say things are as they are, but it'll be good in the long run? Why was God so concerned with what would today be considered "social justice"? The prophets are full of admonitions and condemnations about these things.
@@impalaman9707 I'm not denying that God will make all things right. I firmly believe that. I just don't think we should be complacent along the way.
The notion that whatever Skye calls scripture has anything to do with Christianity is simply as it were a construct of his own imagination
There is so much straw manning here. Very sad
Copying Trump isn't a good idea.
@@turkeypedal ?
@@matthewweisser how so?
If it is a straw man, should be easy enough to provide counterexamples.
Just claiming “straw man” is an easy way to silence voices saying unpleasant things.
This propaganda is spot on with the messaging from crazy leftist liberals. So sad people think these are Christians who believe in the actual Bible.
Christian leftist who believes in the actual Bible here. What's so crazy about that?
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 you can't be a Christian who believes in murdering babies, communism and alphabet people inclusion and be in good standing with God. You need to repent and walk in the light
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 also, you worship the state as your Savior and provider. Stop that!
@@micahlantz905
1. Please give me a verse that says that we're supposed to use the power of the state to enforce Christian values on those outside of the Church with regard to abortion and homosexuality.
2. Why do you assume that I worship the state? You're the one who is advocating for state violence in pursuit of your agenda.
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 you are probably one who is divorced from God's law and believe it no longer applies in any way, so my answer to answer your question would be meaningless.
You’re right, it’s not stopping. But for not the bonehead reasons you give. I know, you’re scared, it’s obvious. That’s why we will succeed.
Are you kidding me? Cancel culture is everywhere. These guys are complete bozos.
Skye's theory of Hell is quite juvenile.
He's claiming the punishment for sin (or is it being unsaved? Explain please.) is a punishment is proportional to people's sins on earth.
OK, so what about an unsaved Buddhist monk? If they committed their WHOLE life, from youth, to the monastery, what horrid sin did they commit? Just not accepting Jesus as their Saviour?
And what about our 'great' founding fathers. They claimed Christianity, yet they raped and beat slaves. Are they going to hell? Are they going to be punished for abusing other humans?
What about all the other Christians who owned slaves?
And every topic is nuanced.
Many people who were born again Christians owned slaves, went into war and killed people they didn't know just cuz their government told them to, stole from a store, raped their wife, took the name of the Lord in vain, committed pedophilic acts . . . . . .
Some of this stuff waws legal at one time! IN some areas of the U.S., age of consent was as low as 10 years of age. Spousal abuse (only the abuse of the husband on wife. Husband beating was always illegal) was legal. Marital rape was legal.
SO what about men who raped their wife when it was still legal? Many 'good' (and born again) men raped their wife, raped their slaves, beat their slaves, killed their slaves, owned slaves . . . . .
It was all considered legal and moral at one time.
Are they going to hell? Are they going to be punished?
This is why I say Skye's view of hell and punishment is as juvenile as any church's.
I don't think he had time to get deep into nuances. I'm pretty sure he believes in a nuanced God who is a righteous Judge who weighs things like human ignorance in the ballance.
He also delves into in depth in his daily devotion emails “With God Daily”
@@dckmusic WOW . . . . . You brushed that off by trying the upsell.
Well, it won't work.
YOU address my issues.
I hate the commenters on here because they just basically tell me 'you don't understand' and then move on.
When I tell them then explain to me in a way I do", they ghost.
I want to know,: According to Sky, do people have to be 'born again' to avoid hell?
Born again people commit atrocities. What is there punishment? DO they get punished?
If not, then why not just get born again and continue being horrid, knowing one will go to heaven (or have a positive afterlife) anyway?
What about people who aren't Christians who don't commit horridness? Do they get punished?
Answer that. Don't just jump in saying 'you don't get it' and then not address the issue.
That shows me you don't like my questions.
@@bwevemuzk You think?!?!?! Why even respond if you don't know what you talk about.
This is as juvenile as Sky's theory of hell.
@@jgunn03 maybe they said "I think" in order to show some form of humility, rather than trying to speak for him too confidently.