I'm a young woman traveling internationally for the first time- alone. I was stranded in a small town on the west coast of Ireland. I had no cell service, no money, no transportation. I walked into this tiny boutique and asked the lady there if I could use her wifi to message my mom. She sat me down, gave me tea, chocolate and her scone, directions to the bus everything i needed. And I thought, this is Christ's love, why is this so rare?
I think engaged atheism is rising as a direct rejection of the politicization of the religious right, much more than even a rejection of the underlying religion. As the religious right has become political, it has (to me at least) become much less moral and much more divisive.
I haven’t heard that perspective before and I think that it has merit. The current trend is exceptionally disturbing to people who grew up in the holiness tradition.
@@rustynails68 my wife recently had lost her faith during the aftermath of the Trump presidency. Her father is a non denominational / conservative evangelical pastor. A lot of it had to do with the hypocrisy of republicans voting for people who were obviously racist and cruel. And when you’re faith tradition is so narrow it when the blinders come off a lager perspective becomes overwhelming. I still believe, however my deconstruction process bore a new and healthier faith. It’s crazy how complex these things can get.
"We don't have a way of nominating moderate people in either party." But the Dems selected Hillary over Bernie and Biden over everyone. On the Republican side...
I am currently reading Eugene’s Peterson’s, “Eat This Book” that underscores your discussion. He notes that we have replaced the Holy Trinity with our divine self. “Here’s how it works: It is important to observe that in the formulation of this new Trinity that defines the self as the sovereign text for living, the Bible is neither ignored or banned; it holds, in fact, an honored place. But the three-personal Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is replaced by a very individual personal Trinity of my Holy Wants, my Holy Needs, and my Holy Feelings.”
I personally know of people who have left Christianity because of its increasingly mean spirited world view, the blatant hypocracy, the implicit white superiority, the lack of empathy for the refugee, the cruelty displayed to gays and trans folks, the careless stewardship towards the earth, social injustices, endorsing significant health care reform, and a corrupted faith, such as the position of author you discussed in the first half of this podcast. I have not walked away from my faith, but cannot find a home in a community church. The evangrlicals sharp right turn politically have caused those with politically progressive world view to flee. Much of the Evangelical community has gone off the rails. Many former Christians have become disillusioned with the hard line that has been drawn in the sand. I am one of them.
@@NSOcarth Probably a chance that you haven't studied the Bible as much as I have. I have taken several online college lectures on the Bible, its history, history of Christianity, Judaism. To me there are too many things that don't make sense and too many questions that don't seem to have answers like: 1. On which day did Jesus die--the day before Passover, the day of Passover, or the day after Passover? 2. On what day did God create light on the earth--on the first day or the 4th; first chapter of Genesis? 3. Why does Paul say there are many gods in heaven? 4. Why does one of the Commandments say, "Thou shalt not kill," and then Joshua is told to kill all living things in Jericho and in Psalms we are told, "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones?" 5. How many heavens are there? 6. How many commandments are in the Bible? 7. If the Jews follow the Old Testament and Christians believe that Isaiah 7:14 predicts the coming of Jesus, why then do Jews not believe that Jesus is the Messiah? 8. Who decided that the now existing books encompassing the NT were put into the canon?" 9. If Ephesians says that there should be "One Lord, one faith, one baptism," why are there so many Christian churches? 10. The Mormons say they are Christians and they baptize for the dead and say they got that idea from the Bible. Where did they find that or did they? 11. Why does the Bible say that non-believers should be put to death, 2 Chronicles? 12. Why does God command returning soldiers to keep virgins as concubines or sex slaves, Numbers? and 13: Is one of the reasons why America is a secular nation because, though Jesus said he was a Christian, since he did not believe in the Virgin Birth, the miracles, or the resurrection, he wanted this nation to be free from Christian entanglements? If he does not believe in those two parts of Jesus supposed life, can he still be considered a Christian or rather a deist? I may not have the best husband, but I was married 55 years. After I stopped believing in Jesus Christ as divine, my daughter and her family of 7 has blocked all e-mail and telephone use from us for 8 years and after that I watched my wife slowly die of a broken heart as I was her caregiver the year before she passed. But I do not believe in either a deity or eternal life. I cannot prove that the Christian god does not exist, but you can't prove he does. And I have studied NDE's of Christians, Mormons, Muslims, Hindus and they all see different personages. Had you been born in Arabia to Muslim parents, gone through all the Muslim rituals, been educated in Muslim schools, married a Muslim girl, would you then be a Muslim or a Christian? Determination of religion is geographical. I have no problem with people in America worshiping any god they want but I don't think Christians should use the power of government to keep me and minorities from having rights equal to everyone.
Love the show but the comparison of Bernie as the opposite on the left as Trump is to the right is not accurate If you listen to most of Bernie views/ policies, it polls very well in the country so what makes it radical ?
While I can appreciate Ryan's perspective, I'd disagree with his characterization of the Democratic Party (and people like Bernie and AOC specifically) as leaning more to the left-side extremes in the future. Neither Bernie nor AOC are EXTREME politicians, in general. They are further to the left than most of the rest of the Dems, but not super extremist. Also, I'm not sure where the idea that nationalized health care is left-wing nutjob type of thinking. MOST western democracies have had some kind of expansive national healthcare for the past 60 years and most of those countries have a higher standard of general health care than we do. Also, it's worth noting that while, yes, the left is a coalition of people with disparate ideologies regarding religion, they do tend to bind together around a set of shared values and beliefs (such as national healthcare, socialistic economic theories, pluralistic ideas, etc.) I think you could make a case that if those shared values and beliefs are all either accomplished or denied to the point where a significant portion of people who identify with the left are getting more and more frustrated with the leaders of the party, there will be fractures, but it's worth thinking about a wider range of influences here. I think this topic, overall, is waaaaaaay more nuanced and less tied to religious affiliation than Ryan is making it out to be. I see his numbers, but I'm not interpreting them the same way he is. It could just be a matter of perspective. I tend to lean pretty far to the left both theologically and socially/economically, so that's a factor, for sure. I just think there's a lot of concern that the decrease in (particularly) Christian social influence is going to be greater than reality indicates. One more point, and then I'll post and stop trying to write a thesis paper in a UA-cam comment section... At one point, someone (I can't remember if it was Ryan or Skye) pointed out that the decrease in religious affiliation in Europe didn't lead to a more hospitable, less racist society. I'd like to counter that with some history. Please remember, the decline of religious affiliation in Europe in the late 20th and early 21st centuries was NOT something that happened in a vacuum. It was a result of the fall-out from 2 World Wars that decimated the continent in the space of 80 years. We, in the US, cannot even BEGIN to imagine what it is like to have to completely rebuild your entire country from the group up. Even Pearl Harbor and 9/11 can't touch the devastation that almost the entire population of Europe had to recover from. So, there's that factor. The other factor is that most European countries, especially those in the north, have not had a significant immigrant population for most of their existence. The idea that racism suddenly reared it's ugly head post-millennium due to the decrease in Christian affiliation over the past 60 years is absolute twaddle. Um...can we say N@zi Party anyone? Okay, I'm done now, I promise. TL/DR: I think Ryan's predictions of the decrease in religious affiliation in America causing chaos in the political sphere is both short-sighted and a poor assessment of the statistical models.
Preach!!!! It made my blood boil when he said, "[On one side we have] a bunch of evangelicals, traditional Catholics, Muslims, Orthodox Jews, and Mormons -- on the other side you're gonna have the nuts." The nuts? Really? Really?! 😞
As a card carrying member of the Black community, many Black people are a part of the Democractic party because we have learned historically and intuitively that it is better to be a part of a coalition striving to uphold the rights of all people than a part of a party that uses language such as "freedom", and "law and order" but have shown time and again that those are code words and phrases used to uphold positions that benefit the white community sometimes at the expense of poc. Many of us have always understood what Ryan Burge said and that is white people can and have rallied around each other based on skin color especially when it has been to their advantage. White Christian Nationalism is the latest example of this. Coalitions, at least, help to push back at that tendency even though it also exists on the left.
Did anyone tell Ryan that we don’t have left leaning political party? We have a Right wing and a centrist party. There are leftists in the centrist party but they are commonly pushed to the margins when possible. This is why so many people are moving to the left. Both of the current parties only uphold the status quo and don’t want actual change that would solve the serious economic problems facing our country.
Why are there so many sites like those questioning the coming civil war who talk about killing people in blue states? Kill your enemy and those you think despisedly use you? This is like the words of Doug Wilson trying to replace liberals in the town of Moscow, Idaho, which gives me troubled questions since I live less than a hundred miles from there. Already our couty library is being pushed to ban books due to porn but it would be OK if Christians put Bible teaching in schools and libraries, even though the Book of Solomon is about as porn and sexually explicit as one can get.
About the lack of structure for atheists to volunteer... public libraries are able to fill the void the unchurched have when it comes to this. Libraries are truly a place for true democracy, where the nons, the rejected, the lonely still feel welcome and can see that they belong. It is also a place where debate and dialog still can happen.
The 2 atheist in my life, who live in separate states, are more Christian acting than myself and my church. One works with the homeless community directly feeding them. The other is working with children. Why? Because they believe in Goodness for Goodness' sake. I dont understand as my work is because I love Jesus. They do it to help humanity. They fascinate me and I am lucky to be their friend. I also think their challenge to me is to be a better Christian because of their selfless actions.
This is, I think, what Christ was getting at with those who want to save their lives losing them - those who are taking on faith just to get rewarded are missing the point:
They do that (which are both awesome , commendable things) because the moral law of God is written on their hearts. There are no such thing as “atheists”; they don’t exist.
Kaitlyn- You need to read "Sundown Towns." Towns, counties, and suburbs that a fully white still exist. There are still many people who are working to keep it that way. Another interesting book about this topic is "White Borders," which talks about how the US has been fighting to keep the country white. (just so it's clear- I think this is a bad thing)
On Christians in politics: It would make sense to me that Christians make up a large voting bloc but atheists are more politically active. Whereas atheists might want to debate morality behind societies laws a lot of religious people are willing to abdicate most understanding to their preferred religious leader and get instruction from them. This leads to a group of people who zealously defend their side without ever intellectually engaging with the difference of opinion or how scripture might actually align with ideas that are alternative to the ones their institution has encouraged. It also means Christians who aren't very good at justifying their belief, defending the faith, or evangelising to non-Christians because they cannot understand them, or worse despise them for not holding the same beliefs. Atheists can often evangelise their politics because they understand the justification. Evangelicals can't because they don't understand it, it's just part of the faith they've been instructed to follow.
I think you might be overstating the impetus both for evangelicals to be ignorant and for Atheists to be intelligent. One of the points I did agree with was that those flying the Atheist label are more about criticism of religion than some positive assertion about how the world really is. There's many more ways to be ignorant than there are ways to be intelligent.
@@lukemacri6557those openly associating with atheism, yes. Those who simply don’t identify themselves by their religion or lack thereof are usually making points because they believe in the intellectual rigor of their claims (which, as always, is no guarantee that they’re actually well thought out).
@@lukemacri6557 specifically, atheists involved in politics are engaged with and knowledgeable about politics even if they are ignorant about Christianity. While they may deny the existence of God their politics is based on their own ideas, not as a way of actively upsetting a God they don't believe in. There are Christians who know about Christianity but not about politics and yet have been convinced to take an opposite view of politics to atheists because they are ungodly and assume nothing good can come from them. This is a fallacy. Non-Christians are capable of doing things in line with God's will even if they haven't committed their lives to him. Worse still, this political reaction can lead to a damaged theology. "Helping immigrants can't be biblical because the Godless left want to do it." This is visible. They think Joe Biden is evil. Actually evil. Not just flawed or misguided. That is why the left think Evangelicals are stupid, not simply because they believe in God but because their other beliefs are inconsistent with their supposed faith. Wisdom from God may seem foolish to non-believers but foolishness from the people who just say Lord, Lord is foolish for real.
@Theinternalrewrite Again, you're far too charitable to this general class of Atheists. Do they not have talking heads? Are there not a bunch of folks just out here parroting Dawkins and asking if God could make a stone too big for him to lift? It is a symptom of this present age that people lose themselves in the finite space of other people they want to identify with instead of making their own decisions as individuals.
@@lukemacri6557 Again, they may be ignorant about God but that doesn't mean their political views are without any merit. They may make more sense than some of the louder and more opinionated Christians. I've heard some atheist leftists sound more like Jesus than some "Christians". True, not all atheists are smart but politically engaged ones are making an effort to make informed decisions. That's not to be ignored. I wish more Christians tried to make informed decisions.
"It's already July, which means the year is now half over. For the past six months, we've seen Christian-nationalist leaders from churches to the Supreme Court respond to last year's electoral defeat by doubling down on extremism, misinformation, and hate. As we prepare for the months ahead, one thing is very clear: Faithful America's mission of reclaiming Christianity from the religious right, for love and social justice, has never been more important. Christian nationalism's threat to democracy and the church is growing -- and we need to grow right alongside it. Whether it's fighting white supremacy, passing legislation for LGBTQ equality, or providing a true Christian witness in the face of Christian-nationalist events like the ReAwaken America Tour, you've been a crucial part of all the Gospel-based success we've achieved together. Yet there's so much left to do, which is why we're coming to you now with an important request to help: • Defend democracy, civil rights, LGBTQ equality, and religious freedom from white Christian nationalism's racist attacks and fascist politics • Spread the word to new audiences that being Christian doesn't have to equal being right-wing • Push private companies and media corporations to stop helping spread right-wing conspiracy theories and lies • Expand our efforts against ReAwaken America and other major Christian-nationalist conferences and tours • Increase Faithful America's technical and legal security systems to defend against ongoing attacks from the religious right Christian Nationalists, who worship the man of lawlessness Trump have been rejected by Christ. Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you.
I'm not sure that atheists take the positions they do because they don't believe in a deity. We can't say the same for evangelicals. Every position evangelicals take is based on their faith. I don't think that atheists are trying to take over with their non-faith, but evangelicals want their faith codified. At worst, atheists want religion taken out of the public policy.
As an atheist , I take my position because I do not believe in a deity and I got there real fast when I read and really studied a controversial book out there--Aversion of the Holy Bible. But since this is not a Christian nation, I, like our Deist Founders, don't want religion of any kind to determine public policy.
The USA needs electoral reform to break the two party system and allowed for gradients of political opinion as opposed to the polarization that exists now. And I say this as someone on the democratic socialist left.
And as someone who is pretty far right I could not agree more, on that specific issue. It would make for better governance, would force elected officials to serve the voters rather than special interest groups, it would allow for independent voices, and factions within parties (basically what it was pre-1990s) would absolutely force people to work together to get things done.
The talk in interview about black protestants. What party can they support then. The party of Republicans has embraced discriminating against them full heartedly politically. The democrats dont have to worry about losing black protestants until equity becomes a real thing and judging from where we are that isnt going to be a concern for another 50 years if even then. As to the overall discussion the thing they miss in the atheist v religious I think they miss the natural March of society is to the left. Right now the right is the status quo of the Boomer generation. Which is very far right when compared to the coming status quo for millennial. Gen Z & A are more to the left. It'd just how things work. The more we understand about the world and humanity the further left we will move. We still have a huge distance to the left to move to start coming close to the teachings of Jesus though.
Okay, I find it a bit ridiculous if to call the "nones" to responsibility for not becoming invested in our society and institutions after talking about how deteriorating economic conditions for those very people. If institutions fail people, how can we expect them to invest in them? Sounds to me like we're all responsible for not adjusting these institutions to serve those in need. I think that's a pretty good reason for atheists to ger politically involved too, since they don't believe any god will be coming to help.
I was an atheist for about a decade after I left my fundamentalist roots before finally recommitting as a theologically orthodox but leftist Christian. All I had to hear was Skye reading the intro to realize “oh boy we’re going to talk about how the powerless and underserved are the REAL problem. 🙄”
There’s a love of institutions that I think is part of the legacy of Catholicism on Protestant forms of Christianity. I worry about it as basically a form of idolatry - an institution we’ve created to take the place of God isn’t that different from a piece of wood or stone - a product of human work that we’ve given inappropriate reverence.
I find you folks exhibit great kindness and sincerely advocate for individuals and institutions to follow the teachings of Jesus. It puzzles me that you seem to identify as Evangelical Christians , about every day the leaders and rank and file of the movement remind me of Ghandi saying he liked Jesus, but he didn't like Christians.
@@Justanotherconsumer When everyone is responsible for everything, no one is responsible for anything. That's the first rule of masses of people trying to do things.
My feed on UA-cam is overwhelmed with politics. I can't seem to escape, it's in everything I watch almost. 😕 People debating, which I think is more like arguing then really debating as no one respects the other or are there in good faith. People are generally just ripping one another apart. Even churches! Do you think humanity really has a chance of living and respecting one another enough to live happily again? It's so disparaging as a parent looking into the future. Hate is enviable I know, but will we find a medium for peace. I'm in a slump. It seems all I can do is escape into my wood shop and build fishing lures these days. My escape up north last month has left me with an overwhelming desire to go as far into the wilderness as possible, until it's just my family and I. Somewhere where your worth is not found in your politics or money, but in your wits and character. I pray I never loose the holy post otherwise. It's my island of sanity these days as I live in a sea of red. Fare right Republicans. I long for more violet 💜 days.😢😢😢
Skye is right. Rigorous enforcement of the Equality Act isn't a priority for secularists. They are just tired of churches hiding behind it to fire anybody that doesn't line up with their religion, even if it's in a role that doesn't involve religious instruction.
I think Burge misses when he criticizes Atheists for being discipled by the algorithm. I would argue everyone who consumes content curated by algorithm is "discipled by the algorithm." he also overlooks the fact that algorithms are fundamentally targeted marketing- yes driven in part by extrinsic input, but also driven by user patterns. The correct read here would be that most people are persuadable to a personal overton window which is not formalized along political party platforms, which is why people appear to teleport from extreme to extreme.
I am an atheist, and I see, and fear the algorithms and the propaganda machine. I call it the reality machine. It is more powerful and potentially more destructive than the entire world’s arsenal of nukes and it is entirely available to the world’s supply of supervillains. It is omnipotent,omnipresent and omniscient. I feel as if I am the only one who can see woke and maga as religions.
And one who doesn't engage in name-calling. Made my blood boil when he said, "[On one side we have] a bunch of evangelicals, traditional Catholics, Muslims, Orthodox Jews, and Mormons -- on the other side you're gonna have the nuts." The nuts?! Really? Really?! There isn't a single positive word he could use to describe folks who aren't on the right? Wow. 😞
Thank you, Caitlyn, for your great explanation of Sodom and Gomorrah as relating to hospitality and not sexuality. Ezekiel, as you say, fully proves this. We live in a very different time, when the sort of marriage between same sex people who are covenanted in love with each other we have now, was not thought of socially.
Hi, conservative Christian just checking in. I had some specific questions that need answers here. There's a short video I'll attach the link to that I believe has thoughts you are lacking consideration on. Not a particularly Christian discussion but I believe there are biblical principals behind it and I'll outline them here. Paul is clear that when we give it must come out of our own resources, not out of what we don't have, and that it must be done willfully, not forced. So I cannot volunteer my neighbor to provide for someone else's needs or God will be angry with me. I also cannot put food and housing for someone on a maxed out credit card. And I certainly cannot go down to the local shelter and invite 50 residents to have lodgings and food in my neighbors house, and volunteer my neighbor's maxed out credit card as the means of payment. A few weeks ago our government almost defaulted on a 38 trillion dollar debt that they have no means of repaying and will continue to increase as they use this debt to provide food and housing for millions of people who they have promised falsely that they have the resources to take care of. If we default on this debt we will face widescale economic collapse and many in our own nation will no longer be able to afford the food that they have, which is already happening to an extent as inflation has driving the cost of living beyond many of our neighbors" ability to afford because of this same kind of spending. When my neighbor down the street is struggling just to feed his kids, is it okay for me to choose for his taxes to be increased more and more to provide food and housing for others? Is it okay for me to choose for the national credit card to be maxed closer and closer to our eventual bankruptcy because Jesus told His own Church (not the government) to give out of their own (not the world' s own) resources? And if my neighbor ends up without food because of the consequences I force on him through my compassion, does God hold me accountable for his suffering? Is that not violating Pauls commitment to not force giving? ua-cam.com/video/iEhFf1H312U/v-deo.html
I believe Richard Twiss (author of One Church many Tribes) said, "Imagine if Tribes here in North America had stricter immigration laws around 1492." [Paraphrased] 😂🤣☠
They had very strict immigration. They enforced immigration with violence. Come into their hunting grounds and you could be killed. They were unsuccessful because they were not united. The tribes were perpetually at war amongst themselves so they were never able to present a unified front against an invasion. Sounds like whets happening in North America today.
According to Pew Research, in 2023 only 3% of Americans are atheist and even if we add in 4% of agnostics, that's only 7 % of Americans. Christians keep saying that atheists at even 7% are persecuting the 64% of Americans who are Christians. Do Americans now have a different way of comparing numbers? My local paper doesn't publish all of my letters but Christian letters are published and full pages. Sue doesn't seem like atheists are more politically active than Christians. And look at how many atheists are in Congress or the Senate. Almost none!
Certainly churches help with belonging- making friends and helping serve the congregation, but in my decades of membership and being on staff only about 8-10% of members actually have a “job” in the church to make it function. Service in the community? Far fewer. My guess is the percentage of atheists serving the community is similar. Also don’t atheists by definition just not believe in God? Wouldn’t someone anti-religious be more accurately referred to as anti-theist? In the old days we used to call them unbelievers
@@NSOcarth But that was a temporary situation. Mary will die if Martha doesn't ever feed her. It's not an either/or. Contemplation is great but pitching in with some practical service now and then isn't going to kill anyone.
The more relevant question is whether opposing national sovereignty and opposing a lawful, reasonable pace of immigration in the name of compassion is a twisting of biblical virtues. Illegal immigration at the pace that is has occurred is undoubtedly causing destabilization. Disorder and chaos are not of God. Laws are created for a reason, and national integrity is a good thing, and immigration should be managed so as to ensure public safety, protect the citizenry from malicious persons with ill intentions, and drug and human trafficking. There are undoubtedly criminal elements passing over the borders. Categorizing all immigrants as "refugees" is a leftist romanticization and is totally disconnected from reality. The more realistic understanding is that there is a mix of people coming into the country, some with innocuous intentions and some with nefarious intentions. The inflow of people should be regulated and vetted.
The law is for God's people. When people say the law doesn't apply to them, they're not wrong. But I'm not sure why they're in church and calling themselves Christian.
Maybe the question is, how much of the commandments or the laws that the Bible dictates for a people on antiquity (in a different place and in a different context) can be literally aplly in our 21st century. Like slavery, inmigration etc. How much of that Morality is absolute and what can be changed, because we are NOT Isreal and we are not living in the Levant at the end of the Bronze Age.
I didn't know a thing about this refugee situation until watching this today. I don't think it's merely a matter of suspense that caused people to obsess over the rich and ignore the poor. The fact is most of our media is an obsession over the rich and WHEN we talk about the poor we direct the story towards the charitable person who does something or your potential to do good. The whole thing was moral gaslighting. The fact is that people still want the lifestyles of the rich and famous - even those who laughed at their deaths. The other fact is few people want to look at the poor - outside of a venue or store. They treat these people's desire to make it to the next moment - a potentially better moment - as an intrusion on their happiness. It's not that American's CAN'T relate to refugees, it's that they simply won't. It goes against attributing value to the rich, it goes against their desire to be right. Honestly, focusing on the sub rather than the boat is American exceptionalism. "Of Course, people FROM THERE, have to flee...." There's this belief that we could never. I remember watching the Iraq War and seeing universities being destroyed or plundered. I realized THOSE people, lived JUST like us - going to school and university, going to stores to buy food. They weren't hungry before. When they got sick, they could go to a hospital. They had normal lives. Fleeing for their lives was not always the norm. The fact that there are children - AND FATHERS - tells you that once they lived in a family dynamic where dad could be intimate with his wife, and he wasn't just some guy, but he was the ingrained father of his family, continuing to make decisions for his family. ALL of that shows us how much more relatable they actually can be. My fear is just like most Americans don't know how close (paycheck-wise) they are to eating from a food bank, many likewise don't see - even now - how fragile the democracy, protections, rights, freedoms, and security are. It's like no one believes that those who say they want to end social security nets are actually going to do it. We scoff at the notion people will leave a home, life and country on foot because of "gang violence" because, in our understanding "gangs" happen in the hood and you just need to "move on up" to a safer city or side of town. Yet, we act as though OUR government does anything at all in response to schools and theaters, grocery stores, and shopping malls being shot up. We can't understand leaving a country whose government won't stop the violence? We don't understand not being protected by the police? We can't understand corrupt leadership? We can't or we don't? We believe we could never get as bad as all of that... When we have all the building blocks. I fear that many in the world will react to the United States undergoing tragedy the same way that Americans are reacting to the sub: eating popcorn and watching with no sympathy - except for those who desire to be like us one day, but basally with gross interest.
You make some points that are worth considering. I'm one of a possible minority that doesn't fit your description though. I don't want to be rich. I want to have enough to have my basic needs taken care of and to be able to afford a few luxuries. I most definitely don't want to be a millionaire or especially a billionaire. In addition to what Jesus and Paul had to say about being rich and loving money, it's just not good for us on a psychological level. That level of wealth causes people to lose touch with reality, to see others as lesser, and be overly afraid of losing what they have. It's also impossible to become that wealthy without exploiting many people along the way. I also don't see the government as the solution. They're part of the problem, especially the fascist MAGA wing of the Republican party.
The problem with how you're viewing this is that when you give to the poor, it must be out of your own resources, not out of the resources of others, and it must be out of what you actually own, not out of your debts that you cannot pay off. Just a few weeks ago our federal government almost defaulted on a 38 trillion dollar debt that is only going to increase because they have no real plan to pay it back, and keep subsidizing the food and housing of people who are meant to provide for themselves. It is not right for a father in a poor neighborhood to feed and house everyone on the street with a credit card that he cannot pay off. Then his own children would face starvation. I believe there is a place for the church to meet people's needs in their community. It is not the churches place to force the communities around them to continue to sink further and further into unplayable debts to provide these needs. That is wicked. Remember Paul says it is wrong to force even other believers to give and that giving must not come out of one's debts.
I would really like to see Phil and company answer the points brought up in this specific video on the issue but they never will. ua-cam.com/video/iEhFf1H312U/v-deo.html
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 not related to the topic at all so if you're planning on using my answer to justify not having to reason through the points I brought up and justify your own position in light of them, then you're probably not very secure in your beliefs to begin with. But I'll answer you one point at a time. Most importantly abortion. Intentionally killing an innocent human being is murder. Killing 70 million of them is a genocide. Do you believe that German Christians were wrong to make killing Jews illegal? Were they nationalists
Dude for real said that not talking about slavery ended slavery. I hate when they have wyte people discuss poc as if they are the authority on their lives and experiences. And yes Skye counts as wyte. He is wyte passing and his pale skin has benefited him in a way that having dark skin would have hindered him. Its a fact.
if you look at France and Ireland there has been a collapse in religions. it does not seem due to the personal journey of people. More the collapse of the legitimacy of the church due to the sexual scandals and the response to them. In addition organized religion has wound up on the wrong side of history on a number of issues.
Please don’t use the term “Christian Nationalist” or “Christian Nationalism” to dehumanize people the same way right leaning people use “woke”. You guys are better then that!
Yeah I kind of cringe when people fall into this binary about S&G, and it just so happens their reading of the story aligns with the ethical outcome they want to assert.
Was it God that put them there, or our fallen nature? Nature is not a good thing. Who we are by nature and who we may become by spirit are two very different things.
I wouldn’t call that a fringe belief because it’s not that uncommon, but it is by no means a plain reading of scripture or other authoritative sources. No way to plan for when it’s going to happen either, so we’re just left with loving God and loving our neighbor (even those nasty Samaritans) either way. Does it matter that the rapture will happen exactly that way? Does it change how we will live?
ua-cam.com/video/lE2f4S-B1f8/v-deo.html the Rapture will happen suddenly and without warning. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2. Also there will be many who call themselves Christians and many who go to church every Sunday will be left behind to face the horrors of the 7 year tribulation.
I'm a young woman traveling internationally for the first time- alone. I was stranded in a small town on the west coast of Ireland. I had no cell service, no money, no transportation. I walked into this tiny boutique and asked the lady there if I could use her wifi to message my mom. She sat me down, gave me tea, chocolate and her scone, directions to the bus everything i needed. And I thought, this is Christ's love, why is this so rare?
I think engaged atheism is rising as a direct rejection of the politicization of the religious right, much more than even a rejection of the underlying religion. As the religious right has become political, it has (to me at least) become much less moral and much more divisive.
In total agreement. Excellent point.
True
I am an atheist. Maybe you would like to talk with me?
I haven’t heard that perspective before and I think that it has merit. The current trend is exceptionally disturbing to people who grew up in the holiness tradition.
@@rustynails68 my wife recently had lost her faith during the aftermath of the Trump presidency. Her father is a non denominational / conservative evangelical pastor. A lot of it had to do with the hypocrisy of republicans voting for people who were obviously racist and cruel. And when you’re faith tradition is so narrow it when the blinders come off a lager perspective becomes overwhelming. I still believe, however my deconstruction process bore a new and healthier faith. It’s crazy how complex these things can get.
"We don't have a way of nominating moderate people in either party." But the Dems selected Hillary over Bernie and Biden over everyone. On the Republican side...
I am currently reading Eugene’s Peterson’s, “Eat This Book” that underscores your discussion. He notes that we have replaced the Holy Trinity with our divine self. “Here’s how it works: It is important to observe that in the formulation of this new Trinity that defines the self as the sovereign text for living, the Bible is neither ignored or banned; it holds, in fact, an honored place. But the three-personal Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is replaced by a very individual personal Trinity of my Holy Wants, my Holy Needs, and my Holy Feelings.”
I personally know of people who have left Christianity because of its increasingly mean spirited world view, the blatant hypocracy, the implicit white superiority, the lack of empathy for the refugee, the cruelty displayed to gays and trans folks, the careless stewardship towards the earth, social injustices, endorsing significant health care reform, and a corrupted faith, such as the position of author you discussed in the first half of this podcast. I have not walked away from my faith, but cannot find a home in a community church. The evangrlicals sharp right turn politically have caused those with politically progressive world view to flee. Much of the Evangelical community has gone off the rails. Many former Christians have become disillusioned with the hard line that has been drawn in the sand. I am one of them.
A correction. I meant to say, not endorsing health care reforms.
So if Jesus or the Bible is not to be blamed for people leaving Christianity, then who is? @@NSOcarth
@@NSOcarth Probably a chance that you haven't studied the Bible as much as I have. I have taken several online college lectures on the Bible, its history, history of Christianity, Judaism. To me there are too many things that don't make sense and too many questions that don't seem to have answers like: 1. On which day did Jesus die--the day before Passover, the day of Passover, or the day after Passover? 2. On what day did God create light on the earth--on the first day or the 4th; first chapter of Genesis? 3. Why does Paul say there are many gods in heaven? 4. Why does one of the Commandments say, "Thou shalt not kill," and then Joshua is told to kill all living things in Jericho and in Psalms we are told, "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones?" 5. How many heavens are there? 6. How many commandments are in the Bible? 7. If the Jews follow the Old Testament and Christians believe that Isaiah 7:14 predicts the coming of Jesus, why then do Jews not believe that Jesus is the Messiah? 8. Who decided that the now existing books encompassing the NT were put into the canon?" 9. If Ephesians says that there should be "One Lord, one faith, one baptism," why are there so many Christian churches? 10. The Mormons say they are Christians and they baptize for the dead and say they got that idea from the Bible. Where did they find that or did they? 11. Why does the Bible say that non-believers should be put to death, 2 Chronicles? 12. Why does God command returning soldiers to keep virgins as concubines or sex slaves, Numbers? and 13: Is one of the reasons why America is a secular nation because, though Jesus said he was a Christian, since he did not believe in the Virgin Birth, the miracles, or the resurrection, he wanted this nation to be free from Christian entanglements? If he does not believe in those two parts of Jesus supposed life, can he still be considered a Christian or rather a deist?
I may not have the best husband, but I was married 55 years. After I stopped believing in Jesus Christ as divine, my daughter and her family of 7 has blocked all e-mail and telephone use from us for 8 years and after that I watched my wife slowly die of a broken heart as I was her caregiver the year before she passed. But I do not believe in either a deity or eternal life. I cannot prove that the Christian god does not exist, but you can't prove he does. And I have studied NDE's of Christians, Mormons, Muslims, Hindus and they all see different personages. Had you been born in Arabia to Muslim parents, gone through all the Muslim rituals, been educated in Muslim schools, married a Muslim girl, would you then be a Muslim or a Christian? Determination of religion is geographical.
I have no problem with people in America worshiping any god they want but I don't think Christians should use the power of government to keep me and minorities from having rights equal to everyone.
Love the show but the comparison of Bernie as the opposite on the left as Trump is to the right is not accurate
If you listen to most of Bernie views/ policies, it polls very well in the country so what makes it radical ?
While I can appreciate Ryan's perspective, I'd disagree with his characterization of the Democratic Party (and people like Bernie and AOC specifically) as leaning more to the left-side extremes in the future. Neither Bernie nor AOC are EXTREME politicians, in general. They are further to the left than most of the rest of the Dems, but not super extremist. Also, I'm not sure where the idea that nationalized health care is left-wing nutjob type of thinking. MOST western democracies have had some kind of expansive national healthcare for the past 60 years and most of those countries have a higher standard of general health care than we do. Also, it's worth noting that while, yes, the left is a coalition of people with disparate ideologies regarding religion, they do tend to bind together around a set of shared values and beliefs (such as national healthcare, socialistic economic theories, pluralistic ideas, etc.) I think you could make a case that if those shared values and beliefs are all either accomplished or denied to the point where a significant portion of people who identify with the left are getting more and more frustrated with the leaders of the party, there will be fractures, but it's worth thinking about a wider range of influences here.
I think this topic, overall, is waaaaaaay more nuanced and less tied to religious affiliation than Ryan is making it out to be. I see his numbers, but I'm not interpreting them the same way he is. It could just be a matter of perspective. I tend to lean pretty far to the left both theologically and socially/economically, so that's a factor, for sure. I just think there's a lot of concern that the decrease in (particularly) Christian social influence is going to be greater than reality indicates.
One more point, and then I'll post and stop trying to write a thesis paper in a UA-cam comment section...
At one point, someone (I can't remember if it was Ryan or Skye) pointed out that the decrease in religious affiliation in Europe didn't lead to a more hospitable, less racist society. I'd like to counter that with some history. Please remember, the decline of religious affiliation in Europe in the late 20th and early 21st centuries was NOT something that happened in a vacuum. It was a result of the fall-out from 2 World Wars that decimated the continent in the space of 80 years. We, in the US, cannot even BEGIN to imagine what it is like to have to completely rebuild your entire country from the group up. Even Pearl Harbor and 9/11 can't touch the devastation that almost the entire population of Europe had to recover from. So, there's that factor. The other factor is that most European countries, especially those in the north, have not had a significant immigrant population for most of their existence. The idea that racism suddenly reared it's ugly head post-millennium due to the decrease in Christian affiliation over the past 60 years is absolute twaddle. Um...can we say N@zi Party anyone?
Okay, I'm done now, I promise.
TL/DR: I think Ryan's predictions of the decrease in religious affiliation in America causing chaos in the political sphere is both short-sighted and a poor assessment of the statistical models.
Preach!!!! It made my blood boil when he said, "[On one side we have] a bunch of evangelicals, traditional Catholics, Muslims, Orthodox Jews, and Mormons -- on the other side you're gonna have the nuts." The nuts? Really? Really?! 😞
As a card carrying member of the Black community, many Black people are a part of the Democractic party because we have learned historically and intuitively that it is better to be a part of a coalition striving to uphold the rights of all people than a part of a party that uses language such as "freedom", and "law and order" but have shown time and again that those are code words and phrases used to uphold positions that benefit the white community sometimes at the expense of poc. Many of us have always understood what Ryan Burge said and that is white people can and have rallied around each other based on skin color especially when it has been to their advantage. White Christian Nationalism is the latest example of this. Coalitions, at least, help to push back at that tendency even though it also exists on the left.
Where is the Christ in Christian Nationalism?
Seriously, other than the name, where are the teachings of Jesus?
Did anyone tell Ryan that we don’t have left leaning political party? We have a Right wing and a centrist party. There are leftists in the centrist party but they are commonly pushed to the margins when possible. This is why so many people are moving to the left. Both of the current parties only uphold the status quo and don’t want actual change that would solve the serious economic problems facing our country.
Why are there so many sites like those questioning the coming civil war who talk about killing people in blue states? Kill your enemy and those you think despisedly use you? This is like the words of Doug Wilson trying to replace liberals in the town of Moscow, Idaho, which gives me troubled questions since I live less than a hundred miles from there. Already our couty library is being pushed to ban books due to porn but it would be OK if Christians put Bible teaching in schools and libraries, even though the Book of Solomon is about as porn and sexually explicit as one can get.
About the lack of structure for atheists to volunteer... public libraries are able to fill the void the unchurched have when it comes to this. Libraries are truly a place for true democracy, where the nons, the rejected, the lonely still feel welcome and can see that they belong. It is also a place where debate and dialog still can happen.
As long as one isn't a non-believer.
The 2 atheist in my life, who live in separate states, are more Christian acting than myself and my church. One works with the homeless community directly feeding them. The other is working with children. Why? Because they believe in Goodness for Goodness' sake. I dont understand as my work is because I love Jesus. They do it to help humanity.
They fascinate me and I am lucky to be their friend. I also think their challenge to me is to be a better Christian because of their selfless actions.
This is, I think, what Christ was getting at with those who want to save their lives losing them - those who are taking on faith just to get rewarded are missing the point:
They do that (which are both awesome , commendable things) because the moral law of God is written on their hearts. There are no such thing as “atheists”; they don’t exist.
Kaitlyn- You need to read "Sundown Towns." Towns, counties, and suburbs that a fully white still exist. There are still many people who are working to keep it that way. Another interesting book about this topic is "White Borders," which talks about how the US has been fighting to keep the country white.
(just so it's clear- I think this is a bad thing)
On Christians in politics:
It would make sense to me that Christians make up a large voting bloc but atheists are more politically active. Whereas atheists might want to debate morality behind societies laws a lot of religious people are willing to abdicate most understanding to their preferred religious leader and get instruction from them.
This leads to a group of people who zealously defend their side without ever intellectually engaging with the difference of opinion or how scripture might actually align with ideas that are alternative to the ones their institution has encouraged.
It also means Christians who aren't very good at justifying their belief, defending the faith, or evangelising to non-Christians because they cannot understand them, or worse despise them for not holding the same beliefs.
Atheists can often evangelise their politics because they understand the justification. Evangelicals can't because they don't understand it, it's just part of the faith they've been instructed to follow.
I think you might be overstating the impetus both for evangelicals to be ignorant and for Atheists to be intelligent.
One of the points I did agree with was that those flying the Atheist label are more about criticism of religion than some positive assertion about how the world really is. There's many more ways to be ignorant than there are ways to be intelligent.
@@lukemacri6557those openly associating with atheism, yes.
Those who simply don’t identify themselves by their religion or lack thereof are usually making points because they believe in the intellectual rigor of their claims (which, as always, is no guarantee that they’re actually well thought out).
@@lukemacri6557 specifically, atheists involved in politics are engaged with and knowledgeable about politics even if they are ignorant about Christianity. While they may deny the existence of God their politics is based on their own ideas, not as a way of actively upsetting a God they don't believe in.
There are Christians who know about Christianity but not about politics and yet have been convinced to take an opposite view of politics to atheists because they are ungodly and assume nothing good can come from them. This is a fallacy. Non-Christians are capable of doing things in line with God's will even if they haven't committed their lives to him.
Worse still, this political reaction can lead to a damaged theology. "Helping immigrants can't be biblical because the Godless left want to do it."
This is visible. They think Joe Biden is evil. Actually evil. Not just flawed or misguided. That is why the left think Evangelicals are stupid, not simply because they believe in God but because their other beliefs are inconsistent with their supposed faith. Wisdom from God may seem foolish to non-believers but foolishness from the people who just say Lord, Lord is foolish for real.
@Theinternalrewrite Again, you're far too charitable to this general class of Atheists. Do they not have talking heads? Are there not a bunch of folks just out here parroting Dawkins and asking if God could make a stone too big for him to lift? It is a symptom of this present age that people lose themselves in the finite space of other people they want to identify with instead of making their own decisions as individuals.
@@lukemacri6557 Again, they may be ignorant about God but that doesn't mean their political views are without any merit. They may make more sense than some of the louder and more opinionated Christians. I've heard some atheist leftists sound more like Jesus than some "Christians".
True, not all atheists are smart but politically engaged ones are making an effort to make informed decisions. That's not to be ignored.
I wish more Christians tried to make informed decisions.
"It's already July, which means the year is now half over. For the past six months, we've seen Christian-nationalist leaders from churches to the Supreme Court respond to last year's electoral defeat by doubling down on extremism, misinformation, and hate.
As we prepare for the months ahead, one thing is very clear: Faithful America's mission of reclaiming Christianity from the religious right, for love and social justice, has never been more important. Christian nationalism's threat to democracy and the church is growing -- and we need to grow right alongside it.
Whether it's fighting white supremacy, passing legislation for LGBTQ equality, or providing a true Christian witness in the face of Christian-nationalist events like the ReAwaken America Tour, you've been a crucial part of all the Gospel-based success we've achieved together. Yet there's so much left to do, which is why we're coming to you now with an important request to help:
• Defend democracy, civil rights, LGBTQ equality, and religious freedom from white Christian nationalism's racist attacks and fascist politics
• Spread the word to new audiences that being Christian doesn't have to equal being right-wing
• Push private companies and media corporations to stop helping spread right-wing conspiracy theories and lies
• Expand our efforts against ReAwaken America and other major Christian-nationalist conferences and tours
• Increase Faithful America's technical and legal security systems to defend against ongoing attacks from the religious right
Christian Nationalists, who worship the man of lawlessness Trump have been rejected by Christ. Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you.
I'm not sure that atheists take the positions they do because they don't believe in a deity. We can't say the same for evangelicals. Every position evangelicals take is based on their faith. I don't think that atheists are trying to take over with their non-faith, but evangelicals want their faith codified. At worst, atheists want religion taken out of the public policy.
As an atheist , I take my position because I do not believe in a deity and I got there real fast when I read and really studied a controversial book out there--Aversion of the Holy Bible. But since this is not a Christian nation, I, like our Deist Founders, don't want religion of any kind to determine public policy.
Kaitlyn- thank you for pointing out the hospitality example in Abraham
Skye thank you for your point on scarcity, I would love to explore this more
The USA needs electoral reform to break the two party system and allowed for gradients of political opinion as opposed to the polarization that exists now.
And I say this as someone on the democratic socialist left.
At very least the electoral college needs to be abolished and gerrymandering reigned in by a non-partisan commission.
And as someone who is pretty far right I could not agree more, on that specific issue.
It would make for better governance, would force elected officials to serve the voters rather than special interest groups, it would allow for independent voices, and factions within parties (basically what it was pre-1990s) would absolutely force people to work together to get things done.
I think the news section should have been titled, "The Wolves among the Sheep" or "Wolves in Sheep's Clothing". 😊
The talk in interview about black protestants. What party can they support then. The party of Republicans has embraced discriminating against them full heartedly politically. The democrats dont have to worry about losing black protestants until equity becomes a real thing and judging from where we are that isnt going to be a concern for another 50 years if even then.
As to the overall discussion the thing they miss in the atheist v religious I think they miss the natural March of society is to the left. Right now the right is the status quo of the Boomer generation. Which is very far right when compared to the coming status quo for millennial. Gen Z & A are more to the left. It'd just how things work. The more we understand about the world and humanity the further left we will move. We still have a huge distance to the left to move to start coming close to the teachings of Jesus though.
Being someone who has been displace, maybe this is why my heart moves towards the refugees.
Okay, I find it a bit ridiculous if to call the "nones" to responsibility for not becoming invested in our society and institutions after talking about how deteriorating economic conditions for those very people. If institutions fail people, how can we expect them to invest in them? Sounds to me like we're all responsible for not adjusting these institutions to serve those in need. I think that's a pretty good reason for atheists to ger politically involved too, since they don't believe any god will be coming to help.
I was an atheist for about a decade after I left my fundamentalist roots before finally recommitting as a theologically orthodox but leftist Christian. All I had to hear was Skye reading the intro to realize “oh boy we’re going to talk about how the powerless and underserved are the REAL problem. 🙄”
There’s a love of institutions that I think is part of the legacy of Catholicism on Protestant forms of Christianity.
I worry about it as basically a form of idolatry - an institution we’ve created to take the place of God isn’t that different from a piece of wood or stone - a product of human work that we’ve given inappropriate reverence.
I find you folks exhibit great kindness and sincerely advocate for individuals and institutions to follow the teachings of Jesus. It puzzles me that you seem to identify as Evangelical Christians , about every day the leaders and rank and file of the movement remind me of Ghandi saying he liked Jesus, but he didn't like Christians.
@@Justanotherconsumer When everyone is responsible for everything, no one is responsible for anything. That's the first rule of masses of people trying to do things.
My feed on UA-cam is overwhelmed with politics. I can't seem to escape, it's in everything I watch almost. 😕
People debating, which I think is more like arguing then really debating as no one respects the other or are there in good faith.
People are generally just ripping one another apart. Even churches!
Do you think humanity really has a chance of living and respecting one another enough to live happily again? It's so disparaging as a parent looking into the future.
Hate is enviable I know, but will we find a medium for peace. I'm in a slump. It seems all I can do is escape into my wood shop and build fishing lures these days.
My escape up north last month has left me with an overwhelming desire to go as far into the wilderness as possible, until it's just my family and I.
Somewhere where your worth is not found in your politics or money, but in your wits and character.
I pray I never loose the holy post otherwise. It's my island of sanity these days as I live in a sea of red. Fare right Republicans. I long for more violet 💜 days.😢😢😢
Change your feed. Watch some cat videos. Watch some comedy, the algorithm will respond.
Skye is right. Rigorous enforcement of the Equality Act isn't a priority for secularists. They are just tired of churches hiding behind it to fire anybody that doesn't line up with their religion, even if it's in a role that doesn't involve religious instruction.
I think Burge misses when he criticizes Atheists for being discipled by the algorithm. I would argue everyone who consumes content curated by algorithm is "discipled by the algorithm." he also overlooks the fact that algorithms are fundamentally targeted marketing- yes driven in part by extrinsic input, but also driven by user patterns. The correct read here would be that most people are persuadable to a personal overton window which is not formalized along political party platforms, which is why people appear to teleport from extreme to extreme.
Aren't we all driven by the algorithm, left, right, centre, up and down?
I am an atheist, and I see, and fear the algorithms and the propaganda machine. I call it the reality machine. It is more powerful and potentially more destructive than the entire world’s arsenal of nukes and it is entirely available to the world’s supply of supervillains. It is omnipotent,omnipresent and omniscient. I feel as if I am the only one who can see woke and maga as religions.
This felt intense and sped up. For interpretation and analysis I prefer a slower less hyper pundit.
Sandra - And one more substantial....
And one who doesn't engage in name-calling. Made my blood boil when he said, "[On one side we have] a bunch of evangelicals, traditional Catholics, Muslims, Orthodox Jews, and Mormons -- on the other side you're gonna have the nuts." The nuts?! Really? Really?! There isn't a single positive word he could use to describe folks who aren't on the right? Wow. 😞
It's evil, and its the kind of false teaching that leads people to directly offend God, and also their neighbors.
I'm so disappointed that no one on the podcast made the comment about Wolfes in sheep clothing. Smh.
"Moderates don't march" - interesting.
Thank you, Caitlyn, for your great explanation of Sodom and Gomorrah as relating to hospitality and not sexuality. Ezekiel, as you say, fully proves this. We live in a very different time, when the sort of marriage between same sex people who are covenanted in love with each other we have now, was not thought of socially.
One of the 12 disciples was a Nationalist. His name was JUDAS.
There were two other ships that went down in the last weeks (that I know of): One in Greece and one in Nigeria.
Hi, conservative Christian just checking in. I had some specific questions that need answers here. There's a short video I'll attach the link to that I believe has thoughts you are lacking consideration on. Not a particularly Christian discussion but I believe there are biblical principals behind it and I'll outline them here. Paul is clear that when we give it must come out of our own resources, not out of what we don't have, and that it must be done willfully, not forced. So I cannot volunteer my neighbor to provide for someone else's needs or God will be angry with me. I also cannot put food and housing for someone on a maxed out credit card. And I certainly cannot go down to the local shelter and invite 50 residents to have lodgings and food in my neighbors house, and volunteer my neighbor's maxed out credit card as the means of payment. A few weeks ago our government almost defaulted on a 38 trillion dollar debt that they have no means of repaying and will continue to increase as they use this debt to provide food and housing for millions of people who they have promised falsely that they have the resources to take care of. If we default on this debt we will face widescale economic collapse and many in our own nation will no longer be able to afford the food that they have, which is already happening to an extent as inflation has driving the cost of living beyond many of our neighbors" ability to afford because of this same kind of spending. When my neighbor down the street is struggling just to feed his kids, is it okay for me to choose for his taxes to be increased more and more to provide food and housing for others? Is it okay for me to choose for the national credit card to be maxed closer and closer to our eventual bankruptcy because Jesus told His own Church (not the government) to give out of their own (not the world' s own) resources? And if my neighbor ends up without food because of the consequences I force on him through my compassion, does God hold me accountable for his suffering? Is that not violating Pauls commitment to not force giving? ua-cam.com/video/iEhFf1H312U/v-deo.html
I believe Richard Twiss (author of One Church many Tribes) said, "Imagine if Tribes here in North America had stricter immigration laws around 1492." [Paraphrased] 😂🤣☠
They had very strict immigration. They enforced immigration with violence. Come into their hunting grounds and you could be killed. They were unsuccessful because they were not united. The tribes were perpetually at war amongst themselves so they were never able to present a unified front against an invasion. Sounds like whets happening in North America today.
According to Pew Research, in 2023 only 3% of Americans are atheist and even if we add in 4% of agnostics, that's only 7 % of Americans. Christians keep saying that atheists at even 7% are persecuting the 64% of Americans who are Christians. Do Americans now have a different way of comparing numbers? My local paper doesn't publish all of my letters but Christian letters are published and full pages. Sue doesn't seem like atheists are more politically active than Christians. And look at how many atheists are in Congress or the Senate. Almost none!
Look up political cartoons with the line”I’ll help you pack” regarding immigration. Other peoples can argue who belongs and who should leave.
Certainly churches help with belonging- making friends and helping serve the congregation, but in my decades of membership and being on staff only about 8-10% of members actually have a “job” in the church to make it function. Service in the community? Far fewer. My guess is the percentage of atheists serving the community is similar. Also don’t atheists by definition just not believe in God? Wouldn’t someone anti-religious be more accurately referred to as anti-theist? In the old days we used to call them unbelievers
@@NSOcarth But that was a temporary situation. Mary will die if Martha doesn't ever feed her. It's not an either/or. Contemplation is great but pitching in with some practical service now and then isn't going to kill anyone.
The more relevant question is whether opposing national sovereignty and opposing a lawful, reasonable pace of immigration in the name of compassion is a twisting of biblical virtues. Illegal immigration at the pace that is has occurred is undoubtedly causing destabilization. Disorder and chaos are not of God. Laws are created for a reason, and national integrity is a good thing, and immigration should be managed so as to ensure public safety, protect the citizenry from malicious persons with ill intentions, and drug and human trafficking. There are undoubtedly criminal elements passing over the borders. Categorizing all immigrants as "refugees" is a leftist romanticization and is totally disconnected from reality. The more realistic understanding is that there is a mix of people coming into the country, some with innocuous intentions and some with nefarious intentions. The inflow of people should be regulated and vetted.
The law is for God's people. When people say the law doesn't apply to them, they're not wrong. But I'm not sure why they're in church and calling themselves Christian.
Maybe the question is, how much of the commandments or the laws that the Bible dictates for a people on antiquity (in a different place and in a different context) can be literally aplly in our 21st century. Like slavery, inmigration etc. How much of that Morality is absolute and what can be changed, because we are NOT Isreal and we are not living in the Levant at the end of the Bronze Age.
I didn't know a thing about this refugee situation until watching this today.
I don't think it's merely a matter of suspense that caused people to obsess over the rich and ignore the poor. The fact is most of our media is an obsession over the rich and WHEN we talk about the poor we direct the story towards the charitable person who does something or your potential to do good.
The whole thing was moral gaslighting. The fact is that people still want the lifestyles of the rich and famous - even those who laughed at their deaths. The other fact is few people want to look at the poor - outside of a venue or store. They treat these people's desire to make it to the next moment - a potentially better moment - as an intrusion on their happiness.
It's not that American's CAN'T relate to refugees, it's that they simply won't. It goes against attributing value to the rich, it goes against their desire to be right. Honestly, focusing on the sub rather than the boat is American exceptionalism. "Of Course, people FROM THERE, have to flee...." There's this belief that we could never.
I remember watching the Iraq War and seeing universities being destroyed or plundered. I realized THOSE people, lived JUST like us - going to school and university, going to stores to buy food. They weren't hungry before. When they got sick, they could go to a hospital. They had normal lives. Fleeing for their lives was not always the norm. The fact that there are children - AND FATHERS - tells you that once they lived in a family dynamic where dad could be intimate with his wife, and he wasn't just some guy, but he was the ingrained father of his family, continuing to make decisions for his family. ALL of that shows us how much more relatable they actually can be.
My fear is just like most Americans don't know how close (paycheck-wise) they are to eating from a food bank, many likewise don't see - even now - how fragile the democracy, protections, rights, freedoms, and security are. It's like no one believes that those who say they want to end social security nets are actually going to do it.
We scoff at the notion people will leave a home, life and country on foot because of "gang violence" because, in our understanding "gangs" happen in the hood and you just need to "move on up" to a safer city or side of town. Yet, we act as though OUR government does anything at all in response to schools and theaters, grocery stores, and shopping malls being shot up. We can't understand leaving a country whose government won't stop the violence? We don't understand not being protected by the police? We can't understand corrupt leadership? We can't or we don't? We believe we could never get as bad as all of that... When we have all the building blocks.
I fear that many in the world will react to the United States undergoing tragedy the same way that Americans are reacting to the sub: eating popcorn and watching with no sympathy - except for those who desire to be like us one day, but basally with gross interest.
You make some points that are worth considering. I'm one of a possible minority that doesn't fit your description though.
I don't want to be rich. I want to have enough to have my basic needs taken care of and to be able to afford a few luxuries. I most definitely don't want to be a millionaire or especially a billionaire. In addition to what Jesus and Paul had to say about being rich and loving money, it's just not good for us on a psychological level. That level of wealth causes people to lose touch with reality, to see others as lesser, and be overly afraid of losing what they have. It's also impossible to become that wealthy without exploiting many people along the way.
I also don't see the government as the solution. They're part of the problem, especially the fascist MAGA wing of the Republican party.
The problem with how you're viewing this is that when you give to the poor, it must be out of your own resources, not out of the resources of others, and it must be out of what you actually own, not out of your debts that you cannot pay off. Just a few weeks ago our federal government almost defaulted on a 38 trillion dollar debt that is only going to increase because they have no real plan to pay it back, and keep subsidizing the food and housing of people who are meant to provide for themselves. It is not right for a father in a poor neighborhood to feed and house everyone on the street with a credit card that he cannot pay off. Then his own children would face starvation. I believe there is a place for the church to meet people's needs in their community. It is not the churches place to force the communities around them to continue to sink further and further into unplayable debts to provide these needs. That is wicked. Remember Paul says it is wrong to force even other believers to give and that giving must not come out of one's debts.
I would really like to see Phil and company answer the points brought up in this specific video on the issue but they never will. ua-cam.com/video/iEhFf1H312U/v-deo.html
@@brandonhartgraves5095 should abortion and/or gay marriage be made illegal?
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 not related to the topic at all so if you're planning on using my answer to justify not having to reason through the points I brought up and justify your own position in light of them, then you're probably not very secure in your beliefs to begin with. But I'll answer you one point at a time. Most importantly abortion. Intentionally killing an innocent human being is murder. Killing 70 million of them is a genocide. Do you believe that German Christians were wrong to make killing Jews illegal? Were they nationalists
Here's a thought: If you're going to conjecturize over the motivations of atheists, maybe include some atheists in on the conversation.
Dude for real said that not talking about slavery ended slavery. I hate when they have wyte people discuss poc as if they are the authority on their lives and experiences. And yes Skye counts as wyte. He is wyte passing and his pale skin has benefited him in a way that having dark skin would have hindered him. Its a fact.
if you look at France and Ireland there has been a collapse in religions. it does not seem due to the personal journey of people. More the collapse of the legitimacy of the church due to the sexual scandals and the response to them. In addition organized religion has wound up on the wrong side of history on a number of issues.
We have a new family in Christ: the Beloved Community of the church--the Beloved Communion of the World.
Usually have some respect for this podcast but the viewpoints/talking points on atheists here are extremely condescending.
Who was more nationalist, Lord Jesus Christ ... or Judas?
Please don’t use the term “Christian Nationalist” or “Christian Nationalism” to dehumanize people the same way right leaning people use “woke”. You guys are better then that!
18:21> Sodom & Gomrh is about several things incldg hospitality AND also about sexual sin.
Yeah I kind of cringe when people fall into this binary about S&G, and it just so happens their reading of the story aligns with the ethical outcome they want to assert.
Those impulses are what God has put into us. It's natural
Was it God that put them there, or our fallen nature?
Nature is not a good thing. Who we are by nature and who we may become by spirit are two very different things.
Not a social scientist nor from the US but that was a very engaging interview
17:18= "We need more Bible than news" -Caitlin.
TY Caitlin. I hope The Hoky Post implements the Bible ALOT more, henceforth.
No middle? So, it's just me then? God will you please get me back to Eastern Europe ASAP?! This sucks!
Well, God is with me and I won't be alone. 🙂
One day millions of true Christians will disappear from this world in the Rapture
I wouldn’t call that a fringe belief because it’s not that uncommon, but it is by no means a plain reading of scripture or other authoritative sources.
No way to plan for when it’s going to happen either, so we’re just left with loving God and loving our neighbor (even those nasty Samaritans) either way.
Does it matter that the rapture will happen exactly that way? Does it change how we will live?
ua-cam.com/video/lE2f4S-B1f8/v-deo.html the Rapture will happen suddenly and without warning. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2. Also there will be many who call themselves Christians and many who go to church every Sunday will be left behind to face the horrors of the 7 year tribulation.
Then the white American evangelicals can really battle it out on the ground....