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589: Guarding the Wall of Separation Between Church & State with Warren Throckmorton
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2024
- The Republicans in Congress have finally chosen a new Speaker of the House, and he’s a Bible-affirming, young Earth creationist, election denying, Southern Baptist. What does Mike Johnson’s rise say about the growing influence of Southern fundamentalism in politics? Then, Phil interviews Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter about their book, “Getting Jefferson Right,” and the attempts by Christian Nationalists to revise American history to remove the wall os separation between church and state. Also this week-the war between Israel and Hamas is getting worse and so is antisemitism around the world. Plus, Charlie Kirk says Halloween is in the Bible and it’s forbidden!
Holy Post Plus:
Getting Schooled - Singleness 101
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0:00 - Intro
1:04 - Show starts
2:02 - Theme Song
2:25 - Sponsor - New Testament for Everyone
Learn more at www.newtestamentforeveryone.com
3:39 - Holy Post Border Trip
7:29 - Charlie Kirk on Halloween
12:59 - Latest on Israel and Gaza
28:10 - New Speaker of the House
50:19 - Sponsor - Dreamland Baby
Go to www.dreamlandbabyco.com and enter code HOLYPOSTBOGO23 at checkout for a BUY ONE GET ONE FREE weighted products deal!
51:25 - Sponsor - Hiya Health
Go to www.hiyahealth.com/HOLYPOST to receive 50% off your first order
52:31 - Interview
Links mentioned in news segment:
Charlie Kirk: “Halloween is a dark, dark day. Not a fan of it.
www.mediamatte...
He Seems to Be Saying His Commitment Is to Minority Rule’
www.politico.c...
Evangelical Mike Johnson ‘Raised Up’ as House Speaker
www.christiani...
Other resources:
Getting Jefferson Right by Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter
gettingjeffers...
Holy Post website: www.holypost.com/
Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus
Holy Post Patreon: / holypost
Holy Post Merch Store: www.holypost.c...
The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
Did you know...Bill Clinton was a southern baptist (i went to church with him in Little Rock. ) interesting that they never claim him.
Somebody at an annual SBC meeting proposed that his pastor and church be dismissed for failure to adequately discipline Clinton for his politics. No kidding.
That said, they also tried to distance themselves from Jimmy Carter after he was out of office, too, because the process of conflating Christian and Republican had just begun.
He wasn't racist enough
They used to claim him until they found out he was dating outside his race.
WOW! That's right-i forgot. Keen observation. I guess hes not THEIR version of Baptist Christian. Though, I have to say, Jimmy Carter was the only politician I know of that I believed, still believe was a genuine servant of Jesus Christ.
Non-Western, preindustrial societies often had elaborate rules for war. Let's not fall into the trap of supposing that ethics in war had its inception in the modern west.
Europe has some pretty bad precedents too.
Magdeburg is probably the easiest example of “Western Civilization” being utter and unrepentant barbarism.
True. Sometimes Phil is too Western centric in his commentary
As a retired teacher... I listen to Holy Post and love it.. Today... Pver the top Thomas Jefferson... Did a lot to start America. He has a room in the Library of Congress with Bible Verses and more surrounding it. I hope and pray he knew Jesus.. But have been told and read a deitist and not on church role?? I have no idea... Im blessed Jefferson did all he did to start our Country. Christian or not..... God used him
In Catholic tradition, Halloween is actually All Hallows Eve, the day before All Saints Day and two days before All Souls Day. I don’t know where this tradition of witches and ghouls came from. All Saints Day is a day of Obligation and people celebrate this by attending mass. I challenge Charlie Kirk to object to this.
Charlie Kirk is most likely anti-Catholic.
As christians we need to pray for peace on all sides not just the political preferences we agree with. I rarely hear anyone commenting on Palestine's right to fight for freedom as much as we hear of Isreal's right to defend itself. The United States majority culture also like to believe that oppressed people should just continue to be oppressed while being happy and compliant.
People don’t talk about Gaza’s right to fight for freedom because they don’t actually want freedom. We know this because they were given their freedom in 2005 and immediately elected a theocratic Islamist terror organization whose primary goal is to rid the world of Jews.
But how you fight is important, not just that you fight. There is no justification for what Hamas did....even if I can disagree with how Israel might choose to respond.
@@FirstTimer23there is no justification for a lot of what’s happened in the last… 75 years or so?
This didn’t start on October 7th, and our problematic role in the situation goes a long ways back.
My cynical assumption is that this is simply a holdover of the Cold War, with Israel being tossed to the wolves to fight Hamas, which is an extension of Iran, the Soviet proxy in the region.
The US benefits from the chaos and destabilization of a region we can’t control, ensuring that it is not a threat (while also assuring that we can continue to get oil).
There’s a narrative about questioning Israel’s benevolence and good behavior here, but there’s a beam in our eye (speaking as an American) as well…
@@Justanotherconsumer I could agree with you 💯 and still hold that Israel's occupation of Gaza does not justify what Hamas did on Oct 7. As an American, would you justify native Americans burning down your house and deleting you because you live on land that was taken from them?
David Baryon is a disinformation agent to promote Dominionism. To do that, he needed to plant the lie that this nation was founded on Christianity, that it was a new promised land for white Europeans. Everything stems ftom there. The first big lie to lay the foundation for a Theocratic Autocracy. Mike Johnson is the next step to implement this long agenda.
Good episode.
On the topic of "What can we do", it occurs to me that a deep dive into why early American Baptists (John Leland, etc.) were strongly in favor of separation of church and state. So many of the Christian Nationalists elevate the Puritans, but they were not the only Christians around.
Take a look at the Puritan experiment, and its devolvment with the half-way covenant, for example. Consider the religious wars in Europe (or more recently, the troubles in Ireland) - is that what Jesus would want? Consider John Leland's sermons - especially " A Christrocracy". Leland is featured a lot in legal writings, but not so much in popular Christian works, and he ought to be.
Consider also the religious liberty clauses in various Baptist statements of faith. Southern Baptists, for example, have quite a good one, which many of their leaders seem to be ignoring.
Baptists weren't the only ones advocating religious liberty. Quakers did as well, and others.
These early Baptists and others have a lot to teach us.
Also there’s an uptick in xenophobia several Arab people have been killed also included the 6-year-old boy
Americans don’t care about that.
We have very, very successfully dehumanized anyone associated with Islam.
Hey! Blessings and greetings from Argentina!
Even as a youth I reasoned that it wasn’t possible for a nation to be a Christian nation, because the things nations did for its existence and/or survival were sometimes in conflict with the teachings of the Christ.
I think that the founding fathers were also aware of this and I’m surprised that many of today’s so-called Christians aren’t aware of this!
I guess the workaround is to configure their version of Christianity to fit their worldview!
If you interpret “Christian” to mean “Western European” it makes a lot more sense.
That Nazarene is not involved.
Quakers sometimes would endure even rougher treatment than that faced by Baptists. Massachusetts expelled several Quaker missionaries in the late 1600s warning them not to come back. Three did return, and Massachusetts executed them by hanging.
Raised Southern Baptist in Ky.. still have family there. But anyway... Do u know that a Baptist Church ( not southern).. are the ones that sent Thomas Jefferson a letter wanting a wall between separation of church and state. It is still in some American Baptist kids teaching lessons in modern times😊
I have A LOT to say but between being OH my between Phil and the Southern Baptist.... I was raised one and there are plenty of good Christians in the Association I'm not in now. But OH my think Loudermilk and his reply of Jesus and Pilot during the impeachment of Trump. Guess what I think Mississippi....south anyway Baptist it says!!! Muslims I respect... But most of our family and parents and FOX news already has them saying we are taken over by musslims in Congress and there is 2? Or 3? Plus to them Muslims mean Alquida.... or terrorist. I am a Christian so we can lead them to Christ if so...
My best plus is Hakeem Jefferies after the Democrats take back the House. He is great and Baptist I think... American Baptist.. ❤
That statement to pick up your Bible.. To me is more for those that are more mature in their faith or been a Christian for awhile that is very true that we need to READ the Bible... period.
Besides David Barton, D. James Kennedy also promoted a similar interpretation of the United States and it was hard for me to see how off he was too.
We must absolutely maintain an impenetrable wall between church and state, and between both of those and business for that matter. The more that any two out of three of them are allowed to influence and benefit from each other, and especially all three of them together, the more each of them are corrupted.
I live in Marietta (immediately north of Atlanta) and there were people projecting “it’s okay to be antisemitic” onto the highway overpass over the weekend. I saw the video of it and according to a local Facebook group the police made them stop but didn’t ticket or arrest because no laws were being violated.
Scary!
And many of those antisemites are fine with oppression of any of the Semitic peoples, including the Palestinians.
Antisemitism is real and nasty, but it's not the same as antizionism
Thanks for the show.
Two gripes that are related:
1. At like 18 minutes when Kaitlyn is talking about powers and principalities and radicalization I don't think she's appreciating the inherent tension in what she's articulating. She talks about people losing sight of the nuances of a situation by being subject to powers and principalities, they come to condone evil by virtue of being influenced by evil which is essentially irrational. This just looks to me like an old permission structure for condemning people as being in league with evil. She needs to admit that when you talk this way you are introducing something worthy of no empathy, here the powers and principalities, into a conversation about human conflicts, and that you are saying that people may be allied with this purely condemnable force. That's not a needle people have threaded well historically.
2. Skye needs to not dismiss this notion that these Republicans are Baptists and watch how these power hungry folks use religious language and communities. It tends to reveal the character of the communities they attract and demonstrate what kinds of language are already present in a community that can be emphasized and leveraged for ill. Saying that they're not real Christians and looking the other way does nothing to help identify how our own ways of being have latent dangers in them.
So what happens to Catholics who observe All Hallows day eve or Lutherans who observe the german traditions.
Nothing happens to them.
See Romans 14:5.
Many Lutherans are very sound, solid brothers and sisters in Christ.
Catholics need the Gospel and need Christ.
As a player of Dungeons and Dragons I can verifiably say that the satanic panic is definitely back up in full force
I like the term "anti-historian" for David Barton. There have been efforts to "baptize" the Constitution over the years by adding "God" language.
"If 80-90% say there should be no free press"... however, if 80-90% oppose part of the constitution, there is the will for an amendment. The constitution includes a method to change it.
Or just appoint a Supreme Court that will say freedom of the press only applies to the media technologies available in the 18th century.
The U.S. has heavily subsidized Israel and will continue to do so. Israel should abide by the rules of the Geneva Convention, if not, the U.S. becomes complicit in potential crimes against humanity.
We are all also NUTS if we dont see our freedom and we are blessed that our God is in control.... Not preached by congresss. That dont know... We are blessed by God
This Halloween was on the same day as 506th Reformation Day. Should we celebrate Reformation Day? As a result, the Bible was published in various languages. Did science start to flourish in Reformation Europe soon after the first Reformation Day?
Absolutely Christ followers, particularly ones who believe in the doctrines of grace, should celebrate Reformation Day rather than taking part in Halloween.
This was our third year hosting a Reformation Day celebration at our home and property.
We do praise songs, a big camp fire, trivia games, door prizes, discuss what God accomplished through our church forefathers like Calvin, Knox, Luther, Zwingli, Spurgeon, Owen & Flavel, and have tons of food.
15:49 Hey Phil, where did you hear this from? Not to say it could be true, but I always get a little curious about overly generalized "these people over here are saying this" comments. Would just love a little more context considering how much mis-info there is on this topic right now.
He tends to do that
ONe Nation Under God is a must I believe. Christian nationalism??? New term and strange. Sep of church and state yes
Mike Johnson also defended Confederate Monuments. That is the thread that ties MAGA together. Almost nobody who spoke against the monuments won their Republican primary in 2022.
McCarthy is on the record being against Confederate Monuments.
Skye you look like princess Leah 😂😂😂😂
1:09:38 -- closest I've ever come to seeing antidisestablishmentarianism (the word we grew up understanding to be the longest word in the English language) used in my hearing. A shame Warren couldn't have taken (if only for a moment, and only for linguistic reasons) a stronger stance in opposition to disestablishmentarianism. Next time.
Nullification? That did not go well last time.
Michael Johnson is a genuine Christian and a man of character. His actions back up his words.
Is the only thing you're going to add about Christian's exit to apologies about getting the name of her podcast wrong!? I don't know what this is, but getting the the name wrong and then not wanting to talk about it just makes me more frustrated.
Reddit has comments relayed from Skye about how unexpected it was. I’ll not repeat here.
Perhaps they have somewhat of an explainer in the paid subscriber episodes if anyone can enlighten us?
@@CTCTraining1So it was sudden and shocked Christian, but also shocked them, yeah this doesn't add up.
@@bethrossiter1857Skye posted 15 minute audio recording following up. But in spite of the length, all he really said that was pertinent was:
They included the comment about it being their decision and not Christians because she asked them to.
They don't feel right telling people why she was asked to leave the show so they won't.
Even so, Skye was will to say the reason came up very quickly, and that until recently they had expected her to be with the show for a long time.
She knows why she was asked to leave.
She can tell anyone she wants.
@@christianchin-ups ... yes sudden but let’s not speculate. If she wants to share more I’m sure she will speak-up. Hopefully she may return later ... never burn bridges.
For such inflammatory statements about people hunting Jewish eople you need to cite your sources. Don't just say such things as runor
I do wish in general they were a lot better about citing things
A house in NH sprayed with racist graffiti (WMUR). Threatening antisemitic phone calls to a college in Worcester MA (npr, wmur) and others
A Jewish college president was found outside her home stabbed to death, somewhat west of New England (multiple mainstream news sources)
@@acarter4865no evidence that murder was motivated by antisemitism. There are too many murders in the US to assume antisemitism every time the victim happens to be Jewish.
@@BluePriest They may have assumed since it was reported by the major news outlets as breaking news.
This is easily my favorite episode.
You talked me into listening to it tonight.
Im with Phil about the concerns with Mike Johnson's post as Secretary of the House. This position is not to be taken lightly. He will have much power over Congress and is an extreamist in his religious world view. It feels like the Religious Right Nationalists have found their perfect representative. His views are dangerous.
It's evident from Phil's questions that he dismisses Mike Johnson due to his perceived Christian Nationalism, a term that remains ambiguously defined on the Holy Post. It appears Christian Nationalism is Original Sin in Phil's perspective.
Phil and company criticize evangelical Christians in their desire to use Biblical principles (as they define it) in deciding where they stand on political issues. They then say in the same breath that we should be more concerned about the character of our leaders. How should Christians judge the character of leaders if not through a Biblical standard? The assessment of a person's character is heavily influenced by one's upbringing, worldview, and religious beliefs. The Holy Post seems to overlook this contradiction in their arguments, either unaware of it or indifferent to its implications.
Is it really a Biblical standard, though, or just a conservative one that slaps on a Bible verse paint job for virtue signaling?
Just claiming something is biblical doesn’t make it true, much like the discussion of the obvious misrepresentation of Jefferson’s beliefs there is a lot of wishful thinking that goes into Christian Nationalist interpretations of what is “biblical.”
Slavers twisted the Bible too - finding a prooftext that can be read in a way that tells someone what they want to hear is a serious problem.
Not true. They made a video about a month ago explaining their specific issues with Christian nationalism. Among them include C.N. using the word of God for earthly gains (power, money etc.) instead of directing people towards him.
Forcing the population of America to live by a narrow set of particular religious values is wrong headed and not how you bring people to God.
Yes, they do a lot to explain their specific issues with Christian nationalism without explaining what it actually is. This makes it very convenient to call everyone a "Christian Nationalist" with whom they disagree.
Oh dear, not David Barton again! What a mess!
Does "separation of church and state" mean that only non-Christians are allowed to influence the law of the land according to their ideology? If so that seems to have the exact opposite effect as the stated intention of the establishment clause. Why should we agree to a governing system where every ideology except for those associated with established religions is allowed to be represented in the legislature? The establishment clause states that congress shall not establish religion, not that every member of congress who is a Christian must lay their worldview aside and vote as if secular atheism is the ultimate reality that we live in. Why do those who believe that abortion is the murder of a human made in God's image have less of a right to be represented in the law than those who believe that only people who are developed enough to think for and take care of themselves are 'really' human lives? Why should our system of government be slanted to give the one ideology power over public laws and to deny the other ideology any real place in the decision?
When Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists about the wall of separation between church and state it was because the Baptists were nervous about having their rights taken away because they were so outnumbered by Congregationalists. Anyone can want their ideas to be implemented, but we shouldn't implement ideas that will take away people's rights because a specific religious group, minority or majority, wants to take those rights away based on their religious beliefs. Also the reason for a law shouldn't be "because the Bible says so" any more than it should be "because the Koran says so," or "because the bhagavad gita" says so. One of our country's founding principles is the rejection of the divine right rule. So even if a bunch of Christians vote in a Christian ruler, the separation of church and state means he can't take away the right to self determination that a religious minority has.
As to your comment about abortion, I have a hard time believing most people actually believe that's murder. If I believed that was murder, then I would be fully in support of that guy that blew up an abortion clinic because you can't just wait for 50 years while a Holocaust happens for the right judges to be put in place. And yet everyone I've ever talked to who says they believe that abortion is murder doesn't support that. Imagine the government started killing millions of Christians a year based on the whims of their neighbors. If you have a Muslim neighbor who wants you to live then you live, if he wants you die then you die. The amount of people who are willing to use violence to fight that type of violence is gonna be way higher than it is for the "murder" of unborn babies. This tells me that all this "abortion is murder" stuff is mainly just nonsense rhetoric. So if you don't really even believe that, and you think it's just a bad thing to do, then don't get an abortion.
The separation is most keenly needed in ensuring that the government does not speak for God - King George III was the head of the church and the American Revolution was heresy in denying his divine right to rule.
Worship of the state is generally called fascism, but if you peel the paint off fascism it starts to look a lot like monarchy, especially with “l’etat c’est moi” (I am the state, Louis XIV).
That is NOT what it means. It means no official state church.
Google "Baptist Joint Committee founders" for some quotes from early American Baptists on what they thought it meant.
@@lisacawyer6896 to clarify, I agree with both of you on the intention of the establishment clause. I'm pointing out the way that many on the left pervert the clause, and flip their lid whenever a person of faith suggests legislation that is founded on or supported by Christian principles. We need to be careful that when we say we're for the separation of church and state, that we're not actually rallying behind those who want to bar our views from having any political influence
Biblical world view? Help the poor and downtrodden. Advocate for requirement society and, oh, maybe...Jesus refused to become political
😂Recycling ," The Greatest Hits from the Religious Right from the 1980's!"
TBF, the U.S. is a democratic republic, not a democracy. As a Canadian, it has always bothered me how few in the U.S seem to know that. It is right there in the Pledge of Allegiance.
Is that actually meaningful, though, or is it just words?
Our government, whether you want to call it a democracy, a democratic republic, a people’s democratic republic, or whatnot, is defined in the Constitution, not by the choice of the word “democratic republic.”
Pledge of allegiance is also newer than many people think, just like “In God We Trust” (which was tacked on in the 1950’s and the red scare, the actual motto is “e pluribus unum”).
Does it being a democratic republic rather than a democracy mean that it is not a government of the people, by the people, for the people as promised*?
That we’re a democratic republic not a democracy shouldn’t bother you, it’s just semantics, the specifics of what it actually means are spelled out and not derived from the label.
*for varying definitions of “the people”
@@Justanotherconsumer I am not trying to make the kind of case that they mentioned that some Americans were making. What bothers me that your average Canadian knows that better than your average American, and I would think that should bother an American too. Words are important and you can’t fight misinformation about the meaning of one if you have a population that doesn't understand it to begin with.
And, to be clear, there is a functional difference in how republics are run compared to democracies. The government structure is different: for example, the electoral college where others are voting on your behalf.
"Democracy is often said to mean 'rule by the people'. An example of this is any system of government in which people vote their elected representatives into parliament."
"A republic is a country where supreme power is held by the people or their their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch."
Or, as I have once heard it defined: "in a democracy, the power is from the bottom up. In a republic it is from the bottom up and from the top down."
In fact the word “democracy” doesn’t appear in the constitution
@@macdri words aren’t important if there is a clear definition of what the government is - it’s not “a republic” generically, it’s a specific structure according to specific established rules. Your definitions are meaningless, because they don’t apply - the Constitution defines what the government is and how it works.
Words are not that important - obsessing over specific words is how Glittering Generalities and Name Calling propaganda work.
Understanding is important, and if word choice helps that understanding, great, but it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
To be clear, you don’t know how the US works if you think the definitions you’re throwing around are important. Read the constitution instead, it’s clear enough.
Also, I’m sure that your average Canadian does not. They may think they know more, but like your inaccurate arguments above they are probably more arrogant presumption than knowledge.
@@Justanotherconsumer LOL, okay, I love how few Americans understand that Canadians know vastly more about Americans than vise versus, because, unlike you guys, we are constantly bombarded by media from across the border. Never said we fully understand the U.S., just that it is concerning it is how few Americans understand their own governmental structure.
But sure, attack the messager, instead of just the issue, that's always a very mature response. 🙄
So interesting that it seems like Barton started with an a priori belief that the separation of church/state was a myth... I was surprised to hear that was his first major book and point. (I think I just assumed that he's arrived at that point much more recently by way of his shoddy attempt at history scholarship...) Sounds like it's the opposite. Somewhere he got the idea that state run church or church run state should be it and then he spent the ensuing years trying to justify that... Truly one of the worst wolves to ever prey upon the american church... so so much bad theology and bad thinking and bad acting by evangelicals in the cultural/political realm can trace back to Barton's teaching / activism. He's the Marx of american evangelicalism... and I'm pretty sure it's not getting better. The consequences of his ideology will I'm afraid, reach newer lows of depravity and violence.
Warren's best tweet is a GIF from a few years ago of Eric Metaxis backpedaling after he slugged someone who didn't like Trump on a bicycle following an event in Washington DC.
Johnson also taught at Liberty...so there's that.
The U.S. needs to put financial pressure on Egypt so they open their border for Gazan civilians to evacuate and so Israel can remove Hamas and their terror infrastructure. We can implore our government and Egypt (The U.S. sends them billions of dollars through our tax dollars!) to do that.
So, your solution is to exile the entire indigenous population so that their colonizers can destroy their remaining dwellings? 🤔
That makes no damn sense.
Also, the US needs to stay out of it.
I HATE it when Americans talk about their stupid tax dollars in other countries.🙄 Keep your stupid tax dollars and leave Africans alone!
@@politereminder6284simple rule: if you are pro Holocaust then you don't get to live next to the Jews.
@@politereminder6284simple rule: if you are pro Holocaust then you don't get to live next to the Jews.
Oh my.... Im.getting anxiety.. IDK why?
Dig up Thomas Jefferson?? ?😂 Im sorry since the Trump years do u realize how many new vocabulary words and or names of groups we have?
I agree the founders wanted or it was about Christiany
Luke Air Force Base is in the middle of Phoenix. That doesn't make Phoenix a valid military target. Israel is not just blowing up bases of operation. They are leveling Gaza. And the non-war crime way of handling the situation is sending in troops. Not just lobbing bombs. Hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed in the "war on terror" while only 7000 soldiers were killed over 20 years.
The civilians were the target. Which is why the Taliban is back in power and nothing we did mattered.
In the old days, armies would go outside the gates and fight it out. Now we just pretend we have an excuse for primarily killing civilians. 600,000 soldiers were killed in the Civil War and 50,000 civilians. To put it in perspective.
- This comment is so morally and historically inaccurate that it’s hard to now where to start. First of all, putting a military base near phoenix does not make phoenix a valid target, but the military base is still obviously a valid target. If a piece of shrapnel flies into phoenix that’s the fault of the people who put the base there, not the people who fired attacked.
- “Sending in the troops” is not some magical solution to prevent casualties. In fact it can create more casualties on both sides because if someone shoots at you you have to return fire.
- That 7000 figure is actually closer to 500,000 (cost of war project, brown university)
- The reason there are more civilian casualties is because terrorists attack enemy civilians and hide behind their own civilians. The civilian casualties on both sides of the Gaza war are squarely the fault of Hamas and they have the sole ability to end it.
@@jdtreharne gross. Imagine repeating that to Jesus on judgement day
@@jdtreharnesolely the fault of Hamas which hasn’t been a major player except in the last 20 years of a 70+ year conflict?
Oof.
@@Justanotherconsumer this conflict, you goofball
@@jdtreharnewhich is “this” conflict?
Do you seriously think this started on October 7th?
No we weren't mad at immigrants in the 80s. Because they were quietly building our houses in the suburbs
This Matt Kirk is doing something that is common among religious ladder climbers. They claim their orthodoxy to be more stringent and biblically faithful, which attracts the religiously disaffected. 🤷
I don’t follow what you’re saying; Immigrants are only competent in doing unskilled labor? People in urban areas do not have homes? My doctor, my maternal grandparents, as well as over half of our previous church (mostly Nepali and East Indian) were all immigrants and none of them work or worked in construction.
As a conservative, I absolutely welcome & love legal immigrants. Here in America, Americans jump through hoops to find excuses not to work.
Separation of church and state. What is wrong w the GOP?
One of their talking points is that "it really isn't what the First Amendment meant; that phrase came from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson."
They forget that our founding fathers were only a generation or two away from people who came to America to escape religious persecution. That's why the wording is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
The "religious persecution" of the Pilgrims is a bit overblown in history. Much like modern christian nationalists, the Pilgrims wanted to set up a Puritan Theocracy and the governments of the time persecuted them by saying "thanks, but no", so they came here and set up a theocracy on Plymouth Rock. The founders were only a few generations from this and thus the establishment clause is meant to defend us against puritan government as much as any other official religion (catholic and church of england were the main contenders at the time).
@@kevinsullivan2153hmm… bit more than that.
English persecution of those who did not worship the monarch (who was the head of the church) varied - look up the term “priest hole” for an example of how bad it sometimes was.
The Puritans represented the losing side in the English Civil War. Lots of politics in there as well as religion.
We're just going to skip over how Kaitlyn's mom saw witchcraft IRL?