Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
582: The Rise and Fall of New Atheism with Justin Brierley
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 сер 2024
- If you live in a part of the country that was originally settled by Puritans or Quakers you will probably live a lot longer than if you live in a region colonized by the Scots, the Irish, or that was dominated by slavery. A new article explores why this is true, and we discuss how immigration patterns from 200 years ago even impacts how we read the Bible. UK broadcast, speaker, and host of the Unbelievable? Podcast, Justin Brierley, is back to discuss his new book, “The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God.” In it he documents how the same political divisions and culture war issues that are dividing the church have also ruptured the New Atheism movement, and how that’s leading more academics and intellectuals to reconsider the claims of Christianity. Also this week-the internet prevents dementia, and what books can we still burn in Denmark?
Holy Post Plus:
Christian Asks - How to make sense of God’s wrath and anger
/ 89175876
0:00 - Intro
1:29 - Show starts
2:05 - Theme Song
2:27 - Sponsor - Faithful Counseling
Get 10% off your first month at www.faithfulcounseling.com/HOLYPOST
3:41 - Older adults should use the internet?
10:03 - Denmark bans burning religious texts
18:36 - America’s Surprising Partisan Divide on Life Expectancy
45:06 - “Why I’m Still a Christian” trailer
47:33 - Sponsor - Sundays Dog food
48:45 - Sponsor - AG1
50:18 - Interview Intro
Justin Brierley
53:48 - The Rise of New Atheism
58:33 - The Fall of New Atheism (Elevator Gate)
1:09:09 - Surprising Allies
1:28:44 - End Credits
Links mentioned in news segment:
Older adults who regularly use the internet have half the risk of dementia compared to non-regular users
www.psypost.or...
Denmark to Ban Public Burning of the Bible and Quran
michaelfbird.s...
America’s Surprising Partisan Divide on Life Expectancy
www.politico.c...
Other resources:
The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God: Why New Atheism Grew Old and Secular Thinkers Are Considering Christianity Again by Justin Brierley
amzn.to/3ZehoEq
Holy Post website: www.holypost.com/
Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus
Holy Post Patreon: / holypost
Holy Post Merch Store: www.holypost.c...
The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
As an athiest I'm a big fan of Justin. He is a fantastic host and moderator and is one of very few Christians doesn't actively supress or dodge athiest arguements. I just wanted to provide some insight on some points in the discussion. One thing you guys touched on but the only thing that Athiests have on common is a lack of belief in God. Athiests are not all humanists, nihalists, disbelievers in an afterlife, liberals, etc. Every single athiest is going to have different views from the next so if you want to have meaning discussion with an athiest you have to drop assumptions about anything else they believe besides non-belief in God.
The next thing I want to answer is this general attitude of curiousity towards Christianity from the athiest community (ie why I'm here). While I can't speak for all athiests I can outline some of the attitudes that I've seen. First of all, the goal of many athiests is to believe what is true, and Christianity claims to have truth. If Christianity is indeed true, many athiests (including myself) want to know. Secondly, one of the stronger arguements against the Christian God is the idea of non-resistant non-belief. This idea is that if someone is actively trying to be open to God entering their life yet they remain a non-believer, it is very likely that said God doesn't exist (or is not all loving) since it seems that God would reveal himself in some way to anyone who wants to be in relationship with him. In order to use the non-resistant non-belief arguement, I (and other athiests) actively seek out God as earnestly as is possible, which can definitely come across as a warm cutiousity towards Christianity.
Hopefully that helps to clarify some things. And thanks for the interesting and balanced discussion on athiesm which is all to often villianised, exaggerated, and dismissed by christians. One thing I believe for certain is that we are all trying our best to find fleeting answers to very difficult and high consequence questions in the short time that we have alive. We should do our best to respect, love, and care for each other regardless of the difference in conclusions that we may come to.
Welcome to the platform! - and thank you so much for such a clear explanation. I've often wondered what it is that atheists are looking for on podcasts like this, when they are clearly not trolls. Your views are very enlightening and dovetail nicely with Justin's.
The Bible is the main source of material believed in by Muslims, Christians and Jews. Once you overcome your fear of questioning the existence and moral core of this man made Hebrew monster called "Yahweh" the entire man made structure begins to collapse.
Love your exposition. The statement about seeking was truly insightful. You will find him.
I recall him dodging some free will questions posed to him by Alex O'Connor. If I remember correctly anyway.
@@colinjava8447 Free will is a highly contentious and complex topic in philosophy that Alex takes a pretty firm (and somewhat extreme) stance on. I generally avoid the topic in apologetics because it is about the longest possible rabbit hole you can go down and there are really good responses to it (I'm particularly thinking of the problem of evil) whether or not it exists.
Even so, I'm not saying Justin never dodges questions, but rather that he is one of the best theists I can think of (especially outside of academic circles) when it comes to facing atheist arguments/objections head on. When the norm in this discussion is for theists to give vague convoluted responses to simple direct questions (Holy Post just released a video today on how we know the Bible's true that does this), it's refreshing to see someone who breaks the trend.
I am a new fan of Justin Briarley. I will get his book and find his show. I gave a son who claims to be an atheist, though raised as Christian. Jordan Perterson's book might be an interesting read to hand to him. John Lennox does a beautiful job of addressing prominate atheiests in live debates with them. His intellectualism is sharp, his real exoeriences walking with God recignizing the very personal relationship possible with the person of Jesus Christ. He is a theoretical mathematical professor with a long career in Cambridge University. No one would call C S. Lewis an intellectual lightweight, yet he seemlessly incorporated the emotional response to the beauty of the gospel message. Great podcast. Please have Justin Briarley on again soon for continuing these important discussions. This podcast has been so satisfying to a thirsty soul.
I'm not sure why people like JP so much. I don't find him that helpful or well thought out.
I am an atheist and nobody ever told me about this movement. It’s unfortunate. It is probably just a book selling gimmick. I don’t want people to perceive atheist as intolerant.
You can look up the term on Wikipedia. The term was originally created by people who disagreed with the movement. But people since then have embraced the name.
@@ZipplyZane What term are you speaking of? I am not sure I understand what you are saying but I think that It is good.
@@rustynails68 New Atheist. That's the movement I assumed you were talking about.
There’s a whole bunch of public atheism that’s gone full toxic nonsense that’s very little about religion.
There’s those who simply don’t believe a religion and then there are Atheists.
What brought you to your current belief? A genuine question, as a Protestant.
In addition, do you think it is more important in what we believe, or whether what we believe is true?
Justin Brierly; exceptionally able Christian faith analyst
Denmark has had people come from other countries to burn the Quran there and it’s effecting their foreign policy. In the US it’s illegal to try to negotiate with a foreign government without the express consent of the government. Both laws are attempting to do the same thing in very different ways. Denmark probably doesn’t want to give Islam special treatment so this includes all holy books.
The regional discussion sounds like a rehashing of Thomas Sowell trying to explain away racism by pointing to regional differences in immigration patterns.
There may be some correlation here but it sounds to me like more work needs to be done on causation and the differences in regional history.
For instance the southern US has much less infrastructure spending and taxes in part because of the history dependency on slave labor and then prison labor and the income derived from that labor. So there is less expected infrastructure because of the social imaginary that leads to how we think of the role of government.
Kevin Krause’s work on the connection between white flight and libertarian politics also is a correlation that should be considered in this kind of a discussion.
Can't wait to see that series!
The description of the different health outcomes among various regions reminds me of how a lot a lot of people would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven
I’d like to read the article. The Deep South and California have very different attitudes towards fitness and diet.
I love that book (American Nations by Colin Woodard)! I grew up in the West and then moved to Minnesota (Yankeedom) as an adult. I kept getting into heated arguments where I would insist that what was illegal didn't necessarily have to be the same as what was immoral, and the Minnesotans I was talking to thought those should be the same thing. Reading about Yankeedom helped me realize that I was actually raised in a very different culture. Westerners tend not to trust the government to fix society for us.
I recently read it and it was so interesting!
The book heavily borrows from Albion's Seed by David Hackett Fischer, which is fascinating. Woodard borrows Fischer's thesis about the regional differences caused by the Quaker, Puritan, Scots-Irish and Tidewater cultures. I found Woodard's book very frustrating (while still very interesting) because of his lack of support or citations for his various assertions. It also seemed biased. In short it's a historical book written by someone who is not a historian, and it shows!
Government institutions are poorly equipped to define morality.
My city of Monroe, LA made the Holy Post... for all the wrong reasons😢
Good afternoon from the glorious SF Bay Area. Thank you, Justin, what an excellent conversation! I have only discovered this channel this week, I recently discovered Russell Moore and the CT channel, I have become a big fan of both . I grew up in the 50's in an Evangelical family, lots of ministers and missionaries. I discovered at around the age of 10 that Christianity has precious little to do with Jesus and his teachings. I think the big problem with the religion of Christianity is that they have forgotten the man in place of a warrior evangelizing mentality. His teachings are actually tossed out. In my search for deeper meaning and rational thinking I have found many avenues and been lead down many roads.
When you stop fearing God and live in the love of God the world becomes a different place. We became a world family, all children of the Divine. Those atheist became such snobbish bores, insufferable. I'm surprised you didn't have more faith in the ability of God to cut through that and bring his children through. Same with the crazy gender stuff, most of it will pass. In the meantime, we as a society should be protecting the vulnerable, not condemning them. As far as "woke" goes, I am sick to death of hearing it. Before the Radical Right usurped the term and twisted it for their nasty political ends, basically it was just the Golden Rule, something else Christianity has forgotten. Don't forget what Jesus said, love God first and then love your neighbor as yourself. There ya go. Simple, true, and straight to the heart of every matter.
Hey Skye....Threads has a desktop function. I hear it's not working that well as far as posting videos, but it does exist.
He should also talk about the rise and fall of organized religion. They are seeing the same trend. People are fed up with these warring camps.
I’m just going to go burn a copy of Fahrenheit 451 for maximum expressive value.
Know what temperature paper burns at? Asking for a friend.
Awesome! Very Clever!
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 I tested it, actually, by putting paper in a 450 degree oven. It did not ignite.
Depends on the paper, apparently, but autoignition point is between 424-475°F according to a Google search.
@@Justanotherconsumerexcellent praxis!
Diet also plays a big part in longevity. What people eat varies in different regions. Was this considered in the life choices aspect of the report?
I agree with Skye, as long as he doesn't include the Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels animated content. That stuff is award winning
Stephen Colbert acolyte of St.Tolkein
Wow! The understanding of the economic and social problems in the US is by learning history and the socio economic structure in the the region. Why? Because structures don’t change that much, unfortunately. It helps a lot to understand that. I am an atheist so when i hear that Jesus, the resurection, etc will vhane that my ears just shut down, because religion has not been instrumental in fostering social justice. Nevertheless, this conversation between you folks is so refreshing. First time viewing this, great conversation.
I agree that religion doesn't do it, and in fact does the opposite.
Faith on the other hand, a true faith in the person who is at the centre of the gospel, is all about social justice. Truly mind-blowing stories about the Samaritan woman, the sex worker, the Samaritan man ...
I heard a comedian once say that if Jesus tried to come to the US he'd be stopped at the border and refused entry. The punchline was something about the fact that the US is way too Christian for him - coming back to religious, rather than faith.
Sky was on the wrong side of the screen. It totally screwed me up!
This woman says says "there are good people too"
The implication there is that Christians aren't good people. That for a Christian to be a good person is the exception. If I was the pastor of her church, she would no longer be the Sunday school teacher after that remark.
"I don't like typing with my thumbs."
"You should try typing with your nose."
In Christianity collectivism is voluntary but if one replaces God with the state then collectivism is lorded over by the state.
@Bob the tomato! STOP clicking on Christian nationalists. My Twitter feed is mostly fellow Bible nerds and some car stuff. It shows us what we tell it we want to see... in other news, somehow Twitter seems to know the difference between not-especially-partisan Bible nerds and Christian Nationalists.
Thank you Phil for pronouncing Appa latch in correctly. Appa lay shun is incorrect. I am a 72 year old who has spent his life in WNC or Eastern Tenn. Also, your discussion just said due to my geography the end may be near!!! Yicks!
Now Skye, you should know that the Star Wars prequels should not be burned. They should be thrown into hot lava!
I am an atheist, and I was never comfortable calling myself an atheist until recently because I didn't want to be associated with new atheism and what I saw as performative blasphemy and trying to ridicule people out of their beliefs. Coincidentally, Al Jazeera just did a piece on atheists on UA-cam, which was very interesting and showed atheists using a much different approach. I object to calling apologists scholars, scholarship is built around asking a question and finding the answer, apologists start with the answer and work backward from there. Apologists are reactionary to cultural forces, and their core audience is believers who want reassurance they are correct.
I would extend this regional mentality to just being Christian. Like are you going to be Christian if you don't grow up in a Christian environment?
But it was the puritans and congregationalist of the NE and great lakes that were the last holdouts to Christendom in the new world. In many parts of New England and the Congregationalist regions you had to be a member in good standing of the church to participate in the political institutions of the community.
Is that more about political power in the church than an individual's faith?
37:58 What is the article mentioned here? It isn't in the links and I would really like to look at it.
Allow the wheat and the tastes to grow together?
Tares not tastes😮
Anyone else see batman(dark coloured sound proofing) swooping past Skye?
As someone who does research with academics (statistics, machine learning, oftentimes working with biologists and environmental scientists), I've only ever heard the New Atheist movement and Dawkins and co. talked about as jokes to be ridiculed. I'm sure they're popular in a certain non-academic crowd, but I don't think academics take them seriously at all.
Is this New Atheism different from my rational position of atheism - to suspend any acknowledgment as to the reality of any particular god until sufficient credible evidence is presented?
@@Theo_Skeptomai To my knowledge, yes. The impression I got was that the New Atheists movement has been from the very beginning more of a cultural movement than anything else. It also seems to be connected to the "Intellectual Dark Web" (Harris, Peterson, Maher, etc.).
@@Theo_Skeptomaiyes, their works might be called anti-theist, they know a deity/deities don’t exist and they would prefer that all rational humans acknowledge the same.
Did Kaitlyn get a promotion?
I have an issue with Justin. He promotes Jordan Peterson and features videos of him on his YT channel and features him on his podcast. To support Peterson who is a champion of toxic masculinity, who says wearing makeup to the office is a deliberate sexual display and a woman should expect sexual harassment because of it, who says sexual harassment will happen because "no one knows what the rules are", who says that my son is a contagion....it's appalling. Why does Brierley support Peterson??? Because he believes in God? Well, even the demons believe in God..... I'm soooo disappointed.
It's because they're politically aligned. Political alignment in America covers and excuses a multitude of sins.
Except when it comes to race. Then, not so much.
I'm not a huge fan of JP, but that's a dishonest take on his makeup comments. He said that red lipstick and blush are sexual signals, which is obviously true. If he said that women should expect to be harassed then I disagree with that but I don't think he's actually said that.
@@jdtreharnehe said that women who wear makeup and high heels to the office and then complain about sexual harassment are hypocrites.
Also, there are other reasons for women wearing makeup beyond encouraging sexual attraction, and JP doesn't acknowledge that.
@@jdtreharne Here is the video. He says women who wear make up and expect no harassment are being hypocritical. Another way to express this is she deserved it (and should expect it). What a violent and brutal attitude. ua-cam.com/video/yqn6YoMFiI0/v-deo.html
I'm sorry so we are talking shades now? So blush is a sexual signal? Red lipstick is sexual? What about other shades? Sure, it can be but trust me, if I am putting on make up of any shade (including red) I am trying to not appear washed out and drab. Make up makes me feel better about me. I don't wear it to signal I am wanting sex!!! What a demeaning take on women.
You can enjoy learning about a persons perspective without agreeing with them or the people that they subscribe too.
Seems like a interesting sub-series. I like KK Du Mez and Lecrae
I like Justin's platform but there's something to be said about someone that has a front row seat to as much destruction of religious types and to not learn a single thing.
As for the topic I think the religious think it's bigger than it is because they're looking at it through a religious lens. What he doesn't understand is that Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens etc are not prophets or power brokers as in religion. It doesn't matter what happens to them, the ideas are paramount.
Interesting that Boghossian left the religious discussions and found allies in bigotry with Christianity. Skye should have investigated that further.
Just... why burn a book in general? Historically just not a good practice
The balancing act of "it's not a good idea" and "do we want the law to intervene here"
we can burn flags, however no one can kneel in protest while the star spangled banner is being played
I am as biblically & socially conservative as it gets and completely support a person’s right to do either of those things.
2 minutes 🎉
Where were all the conservative Christians during the feminist, African American or gay rights-movements, Justin?
There were Christians supporting those, but most in your camp would call them liberal comptrollers.
Jesus said two things would be true in the last days: the gospel would go out into the world and there would be very few believers.
So I would expect to hear more gospels truth even from non-believers, but also expect that most people would not accept Jesus Christ even if they accept the Gospel in terms of how to treat people. Jon Stewart listening to Dave Ramsey be an awful human, asked the poignant question: if Christianity doesn't change your behavior, what's the point?
Also "where the carcasses are, there will be vultures" is not a cryptic statement. The carcasses are unbelievers. The vultures are false prophets and false Christs. Jesus was telling people not to go out to the vultures. The vultures will find the carcasses and devour them.
This hunger for the gospel is leading people away. The LDS church talks a good game about charity and serving people, which is the foundation of the gospel, but then hoards 100 billion dollars. People admire the "goodness" of the LDS people while the church is just a vulture.
The modern church needs to not only preach the actual gospel, but also preach the real Christ. The church has very little time left to get their act together and serve.
How did you determine this Jesus was a historical person?
So wow, Brierly’s book is about right wing atheists. Smh…
If New Atheism is moribund, what do you call the atheism presently sweeping the world? "New" New Atheism? Admit it: the 4 horsemen may be semi or fully retired or dead but they started a growing wave; which their videos continue to bolster. People are waking up to Xian wishwambu.
Really disappointed in the way Mr. Brierly described the hoax paper that Peter Boghossian put out. It was a dishonest paper that didn't prove what he claimed it proved and was found to have violated ethics of the school he worked at when he created it. If that wasn't known by Mr. Brierly I have doubts about the depths of this books conclusions and if he did know and didn't bring it up here that feels morally dishonest to me.
In what way was it a hoax? I've seen the papers talked about in numerous places and never heard their validity questioned. The whole point was the papers were given approval and acceptance based on nonsense that fit a certain moral/ social framing.
It was a hoax in that they didn't actually do serious research for the papers they had published, they intentionally submitted poorly researched papers to "pay to play" journals in what they claimed was an attempt to draw attention to the lack of seriousness of the those particular fields of study. However "pay to play" is an issue in all academic fields not just the ones they were trying to draw attention to in their press releases. The attempt by him and others to try and play it off later as a critique of the ease of publishing in those fields and not addressing that the issue exists in all fields is what I have a problem with. @@pickledorf
That's not what Brierley said, he told the story about the paper and said that Boghossian pivoted away from attacking Christians and began focusing on his secular peers. Here's the time for that 1:13:20. That's not an appreciation of Christians just that they were no longer his target, and my point was that the people he claimed to now be going after was done in a fundamentally dishonest way so I don't understand or appreciate Brierly using Boghossian as a good example of a change in ashiest behavior, because it isn't really representative of most academic atheists behavior. @@phlebas9204
Atheism is largely based on abandoning the idea of a moral law giver. The problem then becomes what moral laws do we live by. Without the unifying didactic law we will have a mishmash of ideas, some contradicting others.
Of course, in religion this happens too. This is a human problem, the belief we can interpret right and wrong accurately and effectively.
Abandoning God does not solve the biggest flaw that has plagued humankind for millennia: humankind itself. That is why we need God, to fix us.
In my opinion the best Christians are the ones who recognize they are broken and flawed and are not yet whole. They carry God's righteousness but with the humility of an everyday person, much like Jesus showed us.
Everything said here is incorrect
@@thetruest7497 feel free to explain.
@@Theinternalrewrite sure. Everything you said there is incorrect. Go back and write the opposite of what you said in order to fix it.
@thetruest7497 are you an atheist?
@@ConnorMarcindeed. Why?