586: What We Get Wrong About Heaven (Hint: Almost Everything)
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2024
- Skye’s new book “What If Jesus Was Serious About Heaven?” Is here! Kaitlyn interviews him about the book, why popular Christian beliefs about heaven are so often unbiblical, and how heaven can become an idol that replaces Jesus as the center of our faith. Also this week: Reactions to the war that’s erupted in Israel. How will the End Times industry spin this unprecedented attack? Phil returns from Nashville with insights about why evangelicals are bad at comedy but good at anger. Kaitlyn learns what a “hutchmoot” is. And the Holy Post (producer) has a baby!
Holy Post Plus:
Getting Schooled - Taylor Swift 101
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Why I’m Still a Christian Bonus Episode with Philip Yancey
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0:00 - Intro
0.51 - Show starts
1:57 - Theme Song
2:20 - Sponsor - Sundays Dog Food
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3:33 - Israel at War with Hammas
14:42 - Why aren’t Christians funny?
41:40 - Sponsor - Fabric by Gerber Life
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42:50 - Sponsor - Dreamland Baby
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44:05 - Interview Intro
45:58 - Why Heaven and what we get wrong about it
55:47 - The Kingdom of Heaven
1:02:57 - Dangers of escapist mentality
1:21:33 - End Credits
Links mentioned in news segment:
Hutchmoot
www.hutchmoot.com/
Other resources:
What if Jesus Was Serious About Heaven? By Skye Jethani
amzn.to/3Q9XeZs
Holy Post website: www.holypost.com/
Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus
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Thank you for being the first voices I have heard expressing sadness and concern for the Palestinians, too.
We, as christians, should stop meddling our faith with in this conflict and start acting as agents of peace, healing and reconciliation as christians should do.
Wonderful conversation. What Skye disclosed so aligns with what 50 years of scripture reading. I understood long ago that God made a physical creation and the Earth as as expression of the spiritual reality of His Kingdom, His being, His genius, beauty, and power, artistry, creativity, all we humans recognize as good. He did not create man to live only as spirits with souls, but inhabit corporal bodies to live on the physical Earth. I also understood that " Heaven," a celestial place in a galaxy far far away was mythology. We were always meant to live as physical beings in a physical world that reflected God's spiritual habitation. He is spirit, but manifested Himself as human to reveal Himself to a deeply sinful world of lost people. His redemption of man was costly, but opened the way back into His presence through the veil of His own physical flesh. Real blood was shed from real wounds, real torture experienced, and real death. He even descended into the hellish realm to rescue some souls. He presented his blood to His Father, sprinkled it upon the Heavenly ark, to attone for the sins of mankind, available to anyone who believed in Him. Jesus has always been the prize. Not Heaven. I know that the Spiritual realm is not far off. Jesus ascended into a cloud. That cloud was not light years away. I have loved Celtic lore, with the idea of times when the veil between the realm of spirit and physical is thin. We are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses. When Christ appears again from a cloud, the earth will untimely be reordered to mirror the spiritual. People will do meaningful work, create music, art, science, botany, build , plant, manage wisely the creation instead of exploit it for profit, the wolf and the lamb will live together peacefully, both metaphorically and physically. The culmination of the heavenly joined to the physical is called the Marriage of the Lamb. We were created to live on a terrestrial planet, to manage it with wisdom, and live in harmony with the perfect will of God. The false theology of Dominionism arrogantly thinks man can build this kingdom by human effort, by dominating. It gas ked to the wanton destruction of essential biomes, because if a false belief that its all going to burn anyway and maybe man can hasten the return of Christ by creating the conditions of chaos and destruction to manipulate Him into doing so. The arrogance is astounding. This is what the whole agenda is concerning the Ultra Right Christian ideology intertwined into authoritarian political control. It is idolatry, pure and simple. I love the wheat and tares analogy. It is a work of The Holy Spirit that accomplishes the desired Kingdom of God. We are called to occupy until He returns. Faithfull fighting injustice, feeding the hungry, working for peace, harmony with the created order, loving our neighbor as ourselves, following Jesus . That how we bear light. By doing what He did while on Earth, living as He lived. The Prosoerity cult and the Dominionists have so twisted the word of God. They have missed the whole point of faith in Christ. I so loved all that was shared on today's podcast. Amen, amen, amen. Thanks again for the work of putting these podcasts out week after week. Always food for thought. God bless.
OUR FAITH IS WHAT LEADS TO THOSE THINGS lol
Maybe it's time to interview a Palestinian Christian on your show!
There are several in the US currently, so it might be possible to find one willing to interview.
@@michaeljay6349 but it would be better to talk to someone on the ground
Yes that's an excellent idea!
And an Israeli Christian!
@@jdtreharnesure. What do you expect them to say?
I don't often agree with the Holy Post podcast team, but I think their take on how to approach this current Israeli-Palestinian conflict is spot on. We need to be in prayer for everyone in this situation and seek to better understand rather than emotionally react in such a way that dehumanizes people. There are many Israelis and Palestinians alike who are innocent in all of this, it's not about picking which team you're going to back no questions asked. Being in the fog of war requires a thoughtful, God-honoring approach, not a warhawk out for blood approach.
Our main pastor stated that before we prayed today. In our generation we as Christians are to spread the Good News too all. There are Christians in Palatine and Isreal and many Muslims in America have become Christians. We are to always stand behind Isreal, but Peace in the Middle East doesn't come until Jesus comes back I've been taught. So for now pray for all... Not to mention this is a terrorist group of Palestine not all of it.
@@bethprather9241 Israel is a regular country with no particular spiritual or prophetic significance and we have no more of a duty to always support it than we do for any other country.
One of the problems with modern Christianity is that there is an OBSESSION with heaven and the afterlife, and a blase attitude to what Jesus told us to do while living to be his hands and feet to the poor, the marginalized, the widows... we make Christianity too much about "self betterment" so that people look up to us and become followers and we all go to heaven where we have "riches based on our good deeds"
Funny enough when I was young I wanted to grow up and become a comedian. Then God called me into ministry and I figured it was essentially the same thing, “but it actually changed lives.” But the crossroads of humor and preaching was and always has been important to me.
You statement about not being seperated from the love God in death resonates with me. I used to struggle witb a fear of dieing and visualizing heaven never helped me. It only got better when I was praying and I got a picture of Jesus being with me in death and walking with me through death. In short i don't know what happens after death but I have peace in knowing Jesus will be with me.
Thank you for recognizing the humanity of the Palestinians,and not just the Israelis😤
Great points Skye. I remember when Rob Bell put out his book on Hell. A leader at a Bible school responded that it couldn't be true because all the people who had died "saving" people who would have wasted their lives. It stood out to me not because it was wrong but because it didn't address what the Bible says at all. The response just said this cannot be right because it would disrupt what we do and challenge our beliefs.
Maybe I missed it, but I was disappointed that the two men most responsible for the popular conception of Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory didn't get mentioned: Dante Alighieri, author of the Divine Comedy; and John Milton, author of Paradise Lost. Their poetry got taken as the definitive depictions of the afterlife
That's why Black and Jewish people are funny - we actually have been in both the "dominant" culture and our own. There isn't the same exposure for most white people, which means there isn't nuance, thoughtfulness, understanding...all the things that underscore good comedy.
I enjoyed the discussion on Heaven and look forward to Skye's book! For those who are interested better conceptualizing what living with purpose in eternal praise in the New Heaven and New Earth could be like, I recommend Claus Tondering's fictional exploration, "Where are the Lions" (a free eBook). I was initially skeptical of any such human attempt but found myself smiling at this beautiful, peaceful suggestion. Even if you find you disagree with some points of his biblical interpretation, the overall picture building on the role of humans in the Garden of Eden is worthy of consideration. A better conception of what was intended and will be does help inform me of those aspects of the Kingdom of Heaven can be in the here-and-now.
Throughout America's history, when cycles of violence broke out between Americans and the Natives, it has been regrettable and tragic. Nobody should like it when atrocities occur, and surely no Christian does.
That being said, both sides weren't equally responsible. Americans were the ones who created the conditions that continued and exasperated the violence. They're the ones who attempted to exterminate a group with less systemic power. They're the ones who stole their land and kicked them out of their homes. They were usually the ones who broke the treaties that were signed. They're the ones who insisted on continuing the conflict so that they could conquer more territory. They're the ones who refused terms of peace.
The nation of Israel has been doing the same thing to Palestine for decades. The average Israeli citizen is no more personally guilty of genocide than the average American citizen was guilty, but the actions of the governments have been identical. When you dehumanize and genocide a people group, you're going to face resistance. As your target people group gets more desperate, their tactics will as well.
Nobody should like the recent events of the terrorist attack by Hamas against civilians or the reaction by the Israeli government. Both sides aren't equally to blame though.
Thats a good one Incarnate Jesus makes universecritters? yours is better!
@@mikemestas9835?
VeggieTales was beloved for being a comedic series, well above the rest. It used a lot of silly humor and referential humor, and less mocking humor. And it did so with a delivery that felt clever.
VeggieTales was on a kid's level...but adults could enjoy it too. It didn't 'dumb things down' but presented them in a way kids would understand. I'm 68 years old and still sing VeggieTales songs!!!
Thinking about pastors and prophetic words: I had a pastor once who commented that when he first arrived at our church, dependant on us for his house and income to support his wife and children, he didn't feel he could preach anything qhich might offend the Board of Elders. He said he felt like a "kept boy" needing to respond to the requests of the Elders rather than to God. After several years, with his kids all in school and his wife back at a LPN job, and some savings in hand, he felt much more free to speak whatever was on his heart, and it brought a new level of maturity to our congregation.
A memory popped up from 7 years ago of a post I shared of someone involved in politics. She had posted a letter her ancestor wrote in the 1600's listing the names of women, children, babies, and elderly killed by Native Americans. The line years ago was that Columbus Day celebrated the beginning of the end of tribal violence. What the letter failed to note was the names of Native Americans slaughtered by settlers.
That violence recorded "justified" the ultimate genocide and displacement of Native Americans. This is what is going on in Israel now. The more powerful force is just looking for an excuse and wants you to ignore their own evil.
War crimes are never a solution to violence. But the US also has a long history of dropping bombs on civilians rather than going in and doing actual war with an armed resistance. So we will more likely see the end of Gaza and genocide than a ground war that shows kindness to civilians and defeats Hamas in a Godly manner.
Killing is never okay, whether your the underdog or not
A very horrible continuing series of events that have been ongoing for many years. Eternal Creator God knows who, what, where, when, why and how, about the causations and responses to it. I trust in Him to mete out judgement where that is just, and to protect with a hedge of protection where that is needed. Dont forget that in both Israel as well as the Palestinian territories, there are Born-Again Believers who are affected by these events. For these, I offer a special prayer to Eternal God for a hedge of protection around them.
Jerry Seinfeld clarified that he never said that he wouldn't do college shows, and that he does them all the time. Like a lot of comedians, he finds the idea that people are "too easily offended" to be a copout, of comics who are not doing their job and keeping up with the social mores.
You have to understand--telling people not to be offended is also what bullies do. They deliberately try to hurt people, then defend themselves by saying it's your fault for being upset.
The real difference is that a lot more people matter. There are more groups who were offended before but you never heard from.
And if you don't think that Evangelical Christians got offended before, then I'll remind you of how the Simpsons was horribly disrespectful and not something a Christian parent would let their kids watch when I was a kid. How rock music was not Christian. It's been this way forever. It's not new. Anything that goes against the tradition was offensive.
To those in favor of Israel continuing to take Palestinian land and oppressing them, would you be okay with Mexicans doing that to Texas and the people that live there?
Yes.
If Governor Abbot's stated goal was to wipe mexico off the face of the planet, then yes I would obviously be in favor of that. I would also be moving out of Texas.
@@jdtreharneand what if Mexico made similar threats and statements as well?
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 yes
@@jdtreharne yes what?
"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice": MLK; "and what does the Lord require of you? To act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God": Micah. These are answers, but it doesn't mitigate the unrelenting sadness of the question.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Matthew 5:9 🛐4☮
George Carlin was the greatest comic/cultural critic of my time. But toward the end of his life he became the quintessential anger comic.
Love Carlin.
According to my friends and family, I am quite witty and funny. I can make people laugh. I'm not mean or mocking'; most of my humor is silly life observations, puns, etc. I always wondered where it came from. I experienced childhood trauma in the form of mental, emotional, and sexual abuse at the hands of a narcissistic mother. I then married a narcissistic man who did NOT find me funny at all (he was very literal and would tell me I'm not making sense) but perpetuated the abuse I'd become used to. Maybe my humor is rooted in the fact that I never felt I had a voice, and now I'm using my voice to bring joy and laughter to those around me.
Sky, please right that piece on preachers and stand ups!!! I’ve also been incredibly curious about these comparisons you touched on.
That pause just before the theme song! 🤣🤣
I haven’t started watching this episode yet but I get the feeling I’m going to be intrigued by the topic as much as I will be depressed by it.
Edit:
Statement withdrawn
Some very good points on why humor has ended up where it is now in America. I've been wondering for a year or so now what a redeemed humor, humor in Eden, humor on the New Earth, would be like but haven't had time in my chaotic life to give it dedicated thought.
14:42 onward;
Christians absolutely should have a sense of humor. And you know why? Because laughter is rooted in truth. Take any random denomination to use as the target for the timeless “lightbulb joke” and you’ll get a delivery that is rooted in truth, which is what makes it humorous.
I’m a Calvinist and you know why it takes zero of us to change a lightbulb, right?
Because if the lightbulb died out then it obviously was God’s sovereign will.
I'm on board with that. God has a sense of humor. Hence the creation of the platypus.
Love this dialogue about heaven. So freeing! Thank you!
I love the reference to liminal spaces. Many cultures believed that there were places especially in the woods or on the water where a person was in danger of falling into the other world. We need to remember that we Christians are the limitations space. Anyone talking go us is in danger of falling into the kingoldom of God.
I think maturity means we don’t take ourselves too seriously and we tell more jokes about ourselves rather than other people. Real comics don’t do comedy but are comic.
I’ve literally had a Baptist missionary tell me that my work as an elementary teacher was worthless. That it was making no impact for God’s kingdom. 😂 She made it clear no other vocation was worth anything
Most Christians get heaven wrong except Skye Jethani. He is here to set the record straight.
I’m glad you spelled it out Phil, because I definitely was hearing you say “meat fabric”
If you GO to Israel and SEE with your own eyes- even if you know absolutely nothing about the history- you SEE how awful and an insane way of living... and people just go about their business like its normal-ITS NOT NORMAL- the checkpoints (!!!), the walls of demarcation, the unemployment, the poverty, the oppression, w Israel calling the shots and making the rules- ie water supply, food supply, what is considered contraband (!)- its nuts and so is the gruesome violence- both sides would have to behave and on their own I dont think they can- add a little governing corruption on both sides- the ruling evil principalities Ephesians talks about.
Skye, it's interesting you talk about Preachers and Comics and earlier you mentioned Sam Kinnison. He was a preacher long before he became a comedian.
I don't think that Dallas Williard or Skye quite has the connection between maturity and being funny and idolatry quite right.
Skye mentions idolatry in both the offended section and his discussion about heaven. And I think there is a truth there. People do get angry when their idolatry is pricked. But people also can get angry when their actual correct theology is pricked. Being offended isn't actually a great sign of whether something is right or not. Because people are offended when the thing they incorrectly believe if talked about and angry when they thing they correctly believe is talked about.
James Martin and Donald McKim (separately) both talked about humor and theology and they made the point that we should be able to make fun of ourselves and our own theology. And I suspect that is what Willard was talking about. (James Martin has a good book on Christianity and humor called Between Heaven and Mirth and Donald McKim has a book on theology that spends a good bit of time on humor and making fun of ourselves, A ‘Down and Dirty’ Guide to Theology.)
Where I think Skye may be wrong is that we should be offended when people we love are dehumanized or hurt. One of the points that I have heard from many white men is that they came to realize that jokes they thought were funny when they were about women or minorities were no longer funny to them when they understood that the tropes or stereotypes that the jokes were based on were actually harmful.
I think that we can both get offended when something is offensive or when something pricks our idols and it is hard to tell which it is until we have inspected the belief. It is easier to just believe we are right and not inspect our beliefs, or just belief that those that are offended are wrong, but there are times when we should be offended.
(I also think that part of this is about punching down and punching up. And whether the we can allow ourselves to not be offended about our own personal issues vs being offended about the harm caused to others.)
There are multiple meanings of "offend" and it sounds like you're attributing Dallas Willard's words to mean a mature Christian is never offended in any sense of the word. My guess is he meant it only in the "being insulted" sense - not in the sense of a "righteous" anger toward a violation of God's character or righteousness (His ways/teachings). You kind of hint at that toward the end but I'm not so sure Willard is wrong on this point in the sense that a mature Christian is not easily insulted.
@@ThePaulWilliams I don't think a mature Christian should be offended in the sense of anger (righteous or not) regarding complaints about God.
That is exactly what McKim's point was. People are in different places. And the examples of the Psalms and other places in scripture are such that people's complaints about God are something God can handle, and God doesn't need us to defend him.
What I am concerned about in what Skye may be communicating here is that individuals who are harmed by attitudes and language should be able to be offended. And those of us who are close to those people who are offended should also be able to speak clearly about the problems of the offensive language and why/how that language is offensive.
You may be right that Willard or Skye have a particularly narrow understanding of the word offense here, but it is not clear that a narrow understanding is being used.
We also need to ask the Lord to forgive our bias based on Zionism and pray for real peace not forgetting our brethren in Israel and Palestine
The 1st Heaven is the sky above with birds and clouds. The 2nd Heaven is outer space where the moon and planets are. The 3rd Heaven is a place where you cannot get to in a spaceship.
People like to dismiss the OT law despite Jesus saying not one letter of it will be done away with and anyone who says not to listen to any part of it will be considered the least in heaven, because 90% of the OT law is about serving your fellow humans. And people are more than happy to reject that. I don't think anyone has made a formal list of all the laws and why each should or should not be followed.
Except for the anti gay stuff. They love that.
While your point about an over-emphasis on going to Heaven is spot on, there are lots of NT hints as to our existence in the intermediate period between death and resurrection: "absent from the body means present with the Lord," the thief beside Jesus is told by Jesus "This day you'll be with me in paradise." At the transfiguration Moses and Elijah in a glorified state appear and speak to Jesus- that's a snapshot of the nature of our intermediate existence. And if, as you say rightly, we are "with the Lord" at death then where is Jesus? He's at the right hand of God in God's dimension [wherever that may be]. Logically that means we're in that place too [in our glorified state.] We need to play down Heaven as the ultimate goal of our salvation. But we do exist with Christ in God's dimension during that intermediate period- And it's okay to say that.
Some jokes are only funny when a friend understands you are playing against a type, when a stranger would assume you are playing towards a type.
As an atheist this whole situation in the whole area of Israel is sad even though that word doesn't do justice to what I really feel about the situation. I wish they both Israeli and Palestinian would realize that both of them are... each and everyone of them are precious to this world.
I found the Wittenburg Door very humorous !!!!
When your best jokes are "My pronouns are..." and "Let's go Brandon" then yes, Conservatives aren't funny. I only have to offer up our Senator from Texas, crappy comedian Ted Cruz.
What billions of people around the world get wrong about Heaven, is that heaven is an imaginary place, not a real one.
Lol. Skye does look like he could be an Imperial officer in Star Wars. kaitlyn's sweater is cool and goes well with her glasses.
"Fundamentalist Christians are so obsessed with the perceived loss of power." 20:48
My wife is a librarian, she is cute too!
It's 8nteresting how she brings revelations into this. Describing Christians waiting for Jesus to come back and fix everything. That idea completely ignores all the teaching that Jesus gave whole he was here. The teachings about the world he expected mankind to create in his absence. A world where we do the work to create below as is above to the best of our ability. No, ignore that. It's to hard and Christians would have to work with people they hate.
For God so LOVED THE WORLD, that he gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jesus died for Palestinians too.
If Israel had followed the Torah, none of this would have happened.
You can't say everybody's got a dog, when everybody does not have a dog!
You're going to get nasty letters saying, "Where's my dog? Why don't I have a dog?"
And are you prepared to deal with that? I don't think so, just stop being so silly!
Too often modern Christians depend on pagan ideas of the afterlife instead of what is in the Bible.
You all need to get to know Michael Jr.! He's a hilarious Christian!
I love the ending too.
29:45 I disagree that we can’t be funny while being offended, and rebuke the offender in a way that make them change their behavior. BUT we need to pray & let the Holy Spirit speaks to the offender. If He is willing, through us.
I had that experience while taking carpentry class in Copenhagen for a year.
The program was in English, with mature students from all over the EU, most were post-modern nones.
I’m quite immune to s-word & f-word as curse word. But that particular day, one of my classmate started to use Jesus’ name as curse word. Didn’t sit well with me, but I knew if I just rebuked I’d be ridiculed, and probably the J-curse word continued.
So. I kept praying for a wise word, for what it feels, hours, tho probably just 10 minutes or so.
Then it’s time for me to approach the classmate, in fear, because still didn’t know what to say…when suddenly I heard my voice saying “If you keep calling Him, He will come.”
The cursing using Jesus’ name stopped, for the whole class!
If the Holy Spirit said it, it’s effective. It declares the truth, that He will come when called. And it is funny.
God protects His own glory, much better than we could.
We & our emotion, need to get out of the way & simply follow the Spirit’s guidance.
I agree that we are so focused on heaven that we've forgotten what we're called to on earth. I also agree that we're all shaped by our backgrounds, communities and traditional interpretations. However, I'm still unclear about your exegesis of John 14:1-3. Although the cross is at the heart of the gospel, how that fits into your theory about the many rooms or "mansions" (from Latin Vulgate) is still very unclear. The traditional, historic interpretation that the Father's house in John 14:2 being what we call "heaven" is not spurious to most commentators. It is where Jesus came from and where He was going (13:33). It is impossible to locate the position of heaven in space, but Jesus assured us that the Father's house exists (14:2). The best exegetical work that I'm familiar with, and the most natural explanation of the text, is that my Father's house refers to heaven, and in heaven are many rooms, many dwelling places. The point is that there is more than enough space for every one of Jesus' followers to join him in his Father's home/dwelling place. They have just been encouraged to trust him (v.1) They can rest assured that their relationship with him will continue into eternity as the apostle John alluded to in many other areas of his gospel that eternal life is in the future of the believer (3:15....). I still enjoy your show. Just unconvinced of your interpretation of John 14:1-3.
Now I'm laughing because I'm thinking , " What do u say at funerals, Skye?" My washing machine just flooded everything in my laundry room and I'm thinking yes all Jesus yes, except we do get a better body and live eternity praising, singing, and as my granddaughter stayed at 3... It is like Disney Land! When my dad died and she had just gone to another funeral! When I went to the casket to see my dad's body the last time on earth, he wasn't there no. But she says," Nay- Nay I think Grandaddy is at the Ice Cream stand!!😂" Gods humor, both pastor tell her it is that and more. So I'm blessed in the US
. But I hope in eternity and belive I'm not going to say bad words when my washing machine over flows...lOL
Listening to this now, i can say for sure it's awoken a lot of sympathy for Gaza and it's made the hypocrisy of the US
Phil, your comments on the disaster that is currently happening in the middle East, would have been more truthful if you had said that "bad things had been done to Israel, as bad things has been continually done to Palestinians". Words matter and Eternal God is watching and listening.
#Israel/#Palestine: #Christian Dr. Burge from 2014 (relevant today, especially)
Holy Post Episode 128: Modern-Day Israel with Guest Dr. Gary Burge! (Palestine/Israel content starts around minute 15)
I love the Holy Post, but that episode was a completely one-sided, anti-Israel episode.
Mathew 24:35
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father."
The point being that Jesus makes it clear that no one will know when he is returning. It isn't predictable. We will never know. Figuring that out isn't the point of the book of Revelations.
Interesting. Todays image of heaven is much like the Pharoah's tomb. Mansions, wealth, perfect bodies. Its no wonder prosperity gospel found such fertile ground to grow in.
Watch Gaffigan’s latest special - he’s absolutely getting “cancelled” by some Christians.
And, Skye, the interchange between Standups and Preachers has been of great interest to me for quite sometime. Delivery, timing, speaking prophetically, etc. Personally, I’ve incorporated aspects of Bob Newhart’s delivery into my own preaching.
What did Gaffigan say to get cancelled by Christians?
Read John Burke's book Imagine Heaven
Individual Christians and churches as a whole get very angry when someone outgrows them. You are beginning to experience this as evidenced in both your comments about the Middle East situation and about the misconceptions of Heaven. Heaven is not a physical place nor does time pass in Heaven, because Heaven is God's very being, outside the space-time continuum of His creation (outside our universe). We don't "pop" into Heaven when we die; we simply realize that we are eternal with God because of what Jesus did within the creation. In Heaven, we are like Him because we eternally (without time) see Him as He truly is. God wanted to multiply by giving Himself away... We are His offspring, forever in Him.
I have been looking forward to this book! I have the others and would like to see one on hell, too!
I wouldn't get my political opinions from him, but Steve Gregg wrote an excellent book on the subject of hell.
Sky, congrats on your new book and your views on Heaven. But what are we to do with Rev. 21 and 22 and its extensive and detailed description of a 'new' (not renewed or refurbished) Heaven and Earth where no night and no Sun is needed? It also says the first earth had passed away and there was no more Sea. Doesnt sound to me like a refreshment by flood or fire. There is nothing on earth even remotely comparable to that description that needs no sun nor moon. But clearly Rev 22:15 does say evildoers will remain outside the gates of the city, so it has similarities to our present earth.
It depends on how literal those chapters were meant to be. Much of the imagery that was used comes from Isaiah, which clearly didn't describe the commonly taught version of heaven where believers will live for eternity.
Isaiah 65:17-25 NRSV
[17] For I am about to create new heavens and a new earth; the former things shall not be remembered or come to mind. [18] But be glad and rejoice forever in what I am creating; for I am about to create Jerusalem as a joy, and its people as a delight. [19] I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and delight in my people; no more shall the sound of weeping be heard in it, or the cry of distress. [20] No more shall there be in it an infant that lives but a few days, or an old person who does not live out a lifetime; for one who dies at a hundred years will be considered a youth, and one who falls short of a hundred will be considered accursed. [21] They shall build houses and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. [22] They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat; for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be, and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands. [23] They shall not labor in vain, or bear children for calamity; for they shall be offspring blessed by the Lord- and their descendants as well. [24] Before they call I will answer, while they are yet speaking I will hear. [25] The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, the lion shall eat straw like the ox; but the serpent-its food shall be dust! They shall not hurt or destroy on all my holy mountain, says the Lord.
@@makejesusgreatagain7220.. does a non-literal reading also apply to the story of the flood? Of Sodom and Gom (sp) etc.? Seems to me Rev 21 and 22 works also with a literal reading..
@@lbamusicthere's a range between completely literal and completely symbolic when it comes to Revelation. I don't have all of the answers for it, including the last two chapters. They could be literal. Parts could be symbolic. All I'm saying is that the idea that it's symbolic doesn't come out of nowhere.
These guys talk, but I still have no idea what there beliefs are, what denomination ?
Im still confused and did order your book. Idk.. So different than.I was taught. Noone knows exactly how it will be but I believe it will be a lot better than any of us believe. I was never taught that heaven not Jesus was the central idea. Always Jesus is the way truth and life. But u are explaining it like we are going to be flying around with Jesus and others in a relm. I do know that the milenial in rev is here on earth. New heaven and earth.. there is still a place we cant imagine that Jesus will be King and we will reign with Him. He is everything. BUT are u saying there isnt a place like paradise now or eternal awesome heaven and earth together .. I dont want confusing. So praying to learn😊
Wow
Hear Skye throwing the baby with the bathwater…
How do you know when you cross the line? How do you know when you're going to for?
I think phil is looking at it from the wrong perspective for this question. Phil's perspective is that of the entertainer trying to capture and hold an audience. That isn't the perspective that they were talking about just before this question was asked.
As in reference to the comments before this question, some audiences will want you to be funny. Some will want you to be mean. Are you willing to capture the audience by being mean is the question. Where is the line or more to the point where should the line be?
Harm the answer to where the line is for any moral question is harm. Are you intending to harm others? Do your words unintentionally harm someone. Many white Christian comics are crossing this line so that they can gain fame and some to gain power. If someone is playing on the hate and fears others hold and trying to weaponize that against other people for fame, power, control, etc this is the line that it seems that you are talking about crossing. Harm is always the line.
WINGFEATHER SAGA!
Good points on frustration over mid east barbaric behaviors- on both sides- weep worthy but hard to know how to pray-ther than just peace- seems vacuous & bleak. I know HS speaks for us- prayerwise-Phils comment on Israel prepping us on justification for what they are gonna do. Both sides are barbaric and sickening. Just so tragic- chaos in US and all over- decreation/disorder/we so need Jesus to come back
Phil, just .... the cute librarian stuff....just no. However you meant it, it's perceived as either infantilizing Kaitlyn or objectifying her. Either way: Ask HER, okay?
Are these guys Jehovahs Witnesses, what do they believe?
I dont know why its hard to tell whats not going to be funny any longer. Just look at modern culture and see what is recognized as being harmful today that wasnt when you were in your prime writing jokes.
Until the West treats the plight of the Palestinians like a real issue and holds Israel accountable for their human rights violations we can expect more of this. The problem with the West is they like their oppressed to behave like oppressed -- Come to them with hat in hand begging for their humanity. Some people would rather fight. As horrible as that act is, i can no more criticize them than I can criticize actions taken by Nat Turner.
Agree with Skye about the humor issue. Thats where Chappelle is failing at lately as well. I think you can joke about any topic as long as A) its funny B) not mean spirited
You can't criticize the murder of civilians at a music festival? You do you man.
@@SubjectNate what do you expect them to do? Run up and fist fight a fighter jet? The disparity in capability makes this the only way they can fight. Not everyone can march and sing "we will overcome" while being beaten in the head by batons like you want them to.
@@thetruest7497you don't have to condone terrorist attacks against civilians to advocate for Palestinian liberation. Any strategic value for provoking a reaction from the Israeli government could have been accomplished by attacking military targets.
@makejesusgreatagain7220 I don't condone it, I just can't criticize it either. Although I am of the opinion that if I ask you to treat me with humanity 1x and you refuse it is up to me how I decide to respond and everything is fair game. It's unfortunate that it comes to that.
I would argue the 9/11 hijackers have defeated the US. It was slow but it was the catalyst to get the US right wing to openly choose to destroy the country. It's hard to argue against the results.
@@thetruest7497I get what you're coming from.
Questioning if Hamas had a rational reason to invade, rape and kill civilians is just wrong Phil. No one should postulate that. Nothing can be gained from it. We talk about how people are cold towards these things, and those comments are so tone deaf. You say you aren't qualified to talk, yet here we are...
I don't condone the Hamas terrorist attack at all on a moral or ethical level, and I don't think that it will be of strategic benefit to Palestine in the short or long run.
That being said, there are possible strategic motives for conducting the attack. Palestine has already been enduring a long and painful genocide with human rights abuses, so Hamas may have thought that they had nothing to lose. Worst case scenario, they speed up the inevitable.
As to what could possibly be gained from a strategic point of view, Hamas could be hoping that as Israel reacts (or possibly overreacts), it could increase sympathy for Palestine, both domestic and abroad, as well as radicalize Palestinians to fight for liberation.
The Israeli government compared the attack to the 9/11 attacks in America. In this respect, they can be seen as similar. The terrorists planned 9/11 hoping to provoke an American overreaction and in turn radicalize more Muslims to their side. From a strategic point of view, it was incredibly successful.
The recent events in Israel and Palestine can be seen similarly. Any possible long-term strategic benefits for Palestine will take time to determine (I don't see it helping), but that doesn't mean that there was no possible rational strategic reason for the attack.
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 Right on schedule. Do they pay you? Look, even if your correct two wrongs don't make a right. Is what Phil said a proper thing to say in light of what happened? You don't talk about if it's reasonable, evil never is.
@@makejesusgreatagain7220 You could just say you don't condone the Hamas attacks full stop.
@@concernedkermit8190did you read the first thing that I said about not condoning the attack? You said there was no possible rational reason for the attack. I responded by saying that, from their point of view, they could have thought there was. That doesn't make it good, moral, or ethical.
@@concernedkermit8190you said there was no rational response and that it shouldn't even be discussed. My comment was a response to that.
people dehumanize themselves. This isn’t a thing you can do to somebody else. But if you act like you’re not human you will be treated that way. Come on guys. don’t be so naïve. Please… Please stop… this is “against God” as you would say. God says to be wise. Ugh😢
She can laugh at the days of the future! Proverbs 31 woman!
Jon Christ makes me laugh all the time. Steven Colbert.. Became a Christian in NYC street when a little testament with Pslams and Proverbs and the New Testestant was handed to him. The Guideon one. IN Trumps early days he absolutely put down the misuse of Romans by Jeff Sessions. He stopped the clip and strongly stated, Do Not Put My God or OUR true God into this show or mess.. Seriously
Idk how many bad religious jokes he has used if so wrong. But SNL can also use😂😂😊 Christianity in not funny ways and I don't like that part. I do enjoy some of their Southern Church skits...Usually by the black comedians that have flat out been to church in the south before.
BECAUSE it is satire and true and funny!
God has a humor and if you know Him, their are times you will know it too..
I really believe and I'm 56 and hate depression. If any comedy crosses the line in how the Holy Spirit in you makes you feel it is wrong. You can leave and you don't have to laugh at it. Jon Crist is very funny and had problems but walked away and came back. He covers all the crap we have gone thru.. both sides using his family and you will laugh. It's classic...
Oh my I'm praying and learning. I will get your book... But my entire life probably 95% of the funerals I've gone too always use JOHN 14 Always.. my most favorite preacher has a doctorate too. So.. I'm praying.
I have mansion over the Hilltop is a Huge Hymn years ago sung at my grandmother's funeral... As Kaitlyn just stated and I pray and have learned a lot but switching to a Christian Church and not Southern Baptist in a small town the entire part of Bringing Heaven to Earth.. I can't get the understanding. The comfort of John 14 and To be away from the Body is away from the World .... Is used all the time. I do belive that.
My pastor at the Baptist church, I Still think the world of... But always ended many services with, " Life is short and full of troubles." True but that us depression and I'm still trying to hear truth
Growing up in a small Baptist church... I can draw as a kid what I believed. I may not have listened too.. lol
But knowing and accepting Jesus and the Good News was center. When you keep stating ," heaven was central," I believe years ago and still many it is more, " We don't want to go to hell, live with the devil and burn forever. Lake of fire. The Luke chapter about the rich man always used. So I've learned how much more grateful and blessed we will be in Christ now and in eternity. Also there is scripture that focuses on satan being the father of this world and we aren't from here. Our home is heaven . What about the milenial?
The Islamic world spans from Morroco to Indonesia. Can't we let the Jews just have that tiny piece that doesnt even have any oil?
Tell that to the Palestinians that had their land stolen.
Like, I get them wanting to have a country as well, but it was done in the worst possible way.
Phil Vischer
"The truth, or God himself is not weak or fragile" - Skye Jethani. . . . WHAT?!!! God is a jealous god, it says so in the Bible. Exodus 34;14: For you shall worship no other god, because the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God". Jealousy is a completely weak and fragile attribute, objectively. I love watching you guys, but that is a massive flub and bad argument.
Only one Gospel:
The Gospel of Reconciliation.
Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom
to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself.
We are the fallen angels kept in DNA chains of darkness.
If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever.
Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of God.