Why did England lose the Ashes? | Nasser, Atherton, Ward & Key react to the third test | Vodcast
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- Опубліковано 27 гру 2021
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Rob Key, Nasser Hussain, Michael Atherton & Ian Ward react to England's Ashes loss in the third test in Australia.
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![ОРБАН приехал к ПУТИНУ и "отчитался" о поездке в Киев 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_0ukDovOWq8/mqdefault.jpg)
I was looking forward to this more than the cricket last night.
It’s funny because it’s true
Exactly. All of them are class.
Lol me too
Same here😂
Did you actually watch it last night? Please say you didn't waste your time.
Just love how atherton and Husain keep acknowledging their own failures in Australia and resist sounding hypocritical. It’s always a treat to watch their analysis. I was really looking forward to this series, and at least 5 days of cricket. The problem appears to be much simpler than whats being made out. The English batsmen are just not good enough against quality pace bowling .
All the Aussies have done is bowl line and length. In short, Akash, you are correct.
Yeh obvs the batting is the problem, but what they’re trying to figure out is why
Lol I think Athers and nas are just about justified talking about test batting but Rob key averaged 30 🤣
Not that Indian team and BCCI are great role models but they have done few things right. One - BCCI had great coach for India A team like Dravid. No words are enough to praise Dravid. Second - when in trouble and out of form, Indian batsmen like Rahul, Pujara are going back to their coaches who have known them since childhood. England can take these 2 lessons and implement in their system. No shame in learning from other countries when you are down rock bottom.
But as they imply, they are BETTER than they have manifested thus far, Malan's played quite well sometimes; as did Butler -albeit in defensive mode.... There have been good half/three-quarters of -an-hour moments... Of course, But...:
It is SO bad for all concerned. As Mark R. said -it is humiliating for them, all those people watching, their families, the knowledge that THey ARE better than this!
Confidence is 50% as a sportsman at least. This is def missing it seems! Each player maybe can work-out why they are not confident -and HOW to get it back. It is different for all people, some need more softly-softly, others need harsher stuff. They should know and do it themselves. If one is self-Resourceful, how THAT in itself creates confidence!
This stream lasted longer than English batting🤣🤣😂
Yeah 😂🤣
LooooooooooooooooooooooL
Hahahahahhahaha
🤣🤣🤣👍
wait actually?
Last 4 test series for England
1) Lost to India in India
2) Lost to NZ in England
3) Trailing 1-2 vs India in England
4) Trailing 0-3 vs Australia in Australia
And a guaranteed 4 losses out of the next 5 (the next two and two out of three in WI).
England kinda got lucky they don’t have to play in Perth. They would’ve further melted in the 42-43 degree days we’ve had here.
@@ryangreen45 Dude stop making everything about india
England are too arrogant. That's their problem
And will lose to nz again next English summer
Why did England lose the ashes?
One line answer - They're not serious about red ball cricket as they are for white ball 😐
The public much prefer test. The ECB prefer ODI cos of money.
@@dickmonkey-king1271 obsession to become best in white ball cricket make their side in test as bad as they were in odi before 2015 also eoin morgan captain only for white ball format also make sure they have very strong captain in white ball format but an absolutely powerless captain in test
Good one bro🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣😂🤣🤣👍👌
A
Indian team also never won world cup title under kohli's captaincy because kohli never got serious about white ball cricket they(kohli&co) are for red ball only
I am always waiting for Nasser and Atherton discussion.
They should do more podcast on cricket
I remember Kallis averaging 20 for his first 35 tests. Then 65 for his next 130. They did give him time. But the key difference is he was drilled to straight bat it, get behind it and focus solely on the fundamentals. All rounders can cross the line a bit and have some freedom, but your top 5 must be technically proficient. Choose those who are closest and let them drill those fundamentals and basics into them …. practise after practise and test after test. It’ll come good. But if they prefer one shot and can’t apply the fundamentals over after over, get rid of them.
See the problem is that the patience of fans and cricket boards over the years has gone down. They expect all players to come in and perform straight away, so not as many players are given a long rope as they used to a few years ago. So all the players coming in are in desperation to score runs which weirdly enough is what is hurting them.
Umm your point is definitely valid time is definitely a key factor in the development of a young player, but the numbers are off, the man would never had made it 35 tests into a career with an average of 20 batting in the top order (he actually had an average 40.33), but thats besides the point. At the end of the day batsmen need to score runs and they need to do it consistently and they will never do it without the fundamentals as you say which is a combination of a proper technique and temperament.
So you need to go to South Africa and get some more players.
Didn’t England try that with joe Denly?
Indeed. In fact zkallis' career as a batsman really kicks off around the end of 2002 into 2003. Although I must say, like Mohammad Yosuf, he was tbe beneficiary of some really close lbw decisions early in his innings. I distinctly remember him being as close to out as you can get in the 2003 test series vs the WI in SA.
He was never given, and went on to score 4 hundreds in a row.
Then against England in 08, plumb LBW to Flintoff and easn't given, although that did not cost much as Flintoff sent his middle stump for a jog with the last ball of tge over. .Because of DRS, the English batsmen don't have that wiggle room
Vladimir is spot on with his analysis .
Mmm. No mention of his plans with all those troops on the Ukranian border though.🤔
More interesting and intriguing to hear these gentlemen than atrociously one sided Ashes down under ✌️
Very difficult to be arrogant when you getting a pounding 😂😂
One sided because we’re smashing your awful team. Not much to say about England is there. Keep losing to us and keep crying
What else do you expect us to say other than you got a pounding 😂
More than Joe Root’s tactics, it is the quality of new test batsmen we are seeing in English cricket. Something fundamentally wrong with the domestic cricket here.
I had a mate who played county cricket in the UK for a season - he said it was equivalent to district cricket here, which is a couple of levels below state cricket. His view back then was the structure and quality just isn’t available there compared to here.
@@brainsmatterpodcastI disagree. Play county championship in June to August rather than April, May and September. Play the joke competitions in April, May and September.
@@martynsmith8120 he did play in the June time frame. And it wasn’t just him… his team mate Warne, and even Greg Blewitt (and many others) all had exactly the same feedback. It may have improved since then perhaps, but the current showing of English players doesn’t seem to support that notion at all.
I agree and I'm an Aussie. Too many " only in England" types...
Is it too simple to say, the openers are decent county players but cant seem to get the runs and start England want at test level
It's tough to see the mounting disappointment in Atherton's tone with every passing game in this series. He's clearly fed up of everything that's happening and it doesn't help to be present so close to where it's happening.
I was at the MCG yesterday and was expecting that sort of collapse, but when it came I was still left feeling amazed at how meekly the English team rolled over. Stokes looked good early with some straight drives, as did Root, but once he lost his wicket the rest of them folded like a deck of cards. The most disappointing session of cricket I have witnessed live. The wicket had a bit for the bowlers but the batsmen were fairly comfortable straight driving which meant it wasn’t a minefield. If England could have found some way to set Australia 150-200 they’d have given themselves a fighting chance, but their batsmen are simply not up to it. I see no other result now other than 5-0. If you cannot score runs you cannot win.
Stokes is overrated and so is Root!
@@souryabanik only 2 who can play being told to carry the team it’s hard you know coming from an Aussie supporter
@@souryabanik Root is world class , a great player and Stokes is capable of turning a game by himself.
Root is world class. Need support from others.
@@neelujain5935 True
Love listening to Nasser and Atherton. Amazing analysis and insights.
Yes, but they were no better in their day than the current players.
@@Kyranoboss Nonsense. If they were 25 years old and available again, Atherton would open and Hussain would be captain. Their records aren't great, but they'd walk into this England team.
So what
@@stuartedworthy5111 Yes, their record were equally poor. Hussain not even in top 5 of most successful England captains and famously lost the Ashes in 11 days. Atherton, involved in ball tamping, only averaged 29 against Australia. Rory Burns average v Australia 31.5
20:00 Hameed going the Gary Balance way .. spot on Nasser, something I picked up watching Hameed batting
Sachin mugged off the pull or cover drive for like 4 years because he kept doing it. And getting caught. No one has the discipline to do it at the moment. The bowlers have been magnificent this series
4 years? Lmao
Sachin one of the greatest modern day great without a doubt for a simple reason because,he very very rarely had a bad series in his career spanning 22years of test cricket and almost in any series he used to score atleast 1 century, those days india's bowling was very poor except in home conditions,the issue here in this ashes series is not a single hundred from the England batters,a must if a team wants to win a match or atleast make a match if it..Joe root getting fifties is if no use and others have been very very poor except Malan..The bowling is not threatning and some very poor selections
Tennis elbow issue was the reason as well. He used a lighter bat as well
sachin had more shots . its like people saying kohli should stop cover driving . but he doest cut or punch the ball that much . and he doent get out playing cover drive . today generation wont stop playing a particular shot just because they got out
Actually in Sachin's case even if he could curb a shot,he had all the other shots honed to almost perfection that he coulf afford not playing a cover drive,not many players have this luxury.
Just 47.50 mins I wanted more...everytime I hear Nas and Mike it's like why not more. Brilliant podcast.
If you go back a couple of decades, Teams visiting Australia used to play matches against the Sheffield Shield teams before the test matches. You can't expect your players to adjust to Aussie pitch conditions with the added speed and bounce without having time to dial in to what to leave and what will rip your off-stump out of the ground.
England Batters have been getting out playing shots for English Conditions. England Bowlers have consistently bowled too short ( which would be a good length for English Conditions ).
You want to win matches in Australia? Get the team out here a month earlier and play more practice matches. Otherwise expect more 4-0/5-0 results or start practicing rain dancing.
Agree with everything you said plus the Sheffield Shield is probably the strongest 4 day domestic cricket competition in the world, a great breeding ground for test cricket.
I do agree with you, though COVID made that tricky this time around. Having said that, international playing schedules are so tight these days, they barely have more than 3 days to acclimatise, much less a month.
@@cameronbobsmith covid and bad weather did destroy the English pre test prep but it takes more than one game for tourists to adjust both their batting and bowling line to Australian conditions and acclimatize to the heat. That's why Australia usually schedule the first two tests at Brisbane and Perth the two fastest and hottest grounds.
@@cameronbobsmith True. If you asked any English or Australian Test Cricketer what one thing they want to achieve in their career? Anyone who doesn't say "Win (or retain) The Ashes" doesn't deserve to be in the team.
It is the flagship series of cricket. The ECB needs to prioritize preparation for The Ashes above anything else. If that means 4 weeks in Australia before the First Test then so be it.
I totally agree. That’s what we did in 2010/11. We picked our strongest team and played to win against the state teams in the warmup games. We prepared properly. Ok we had a better team but we got used to the conditions. All of the players who weren’t playing in the world T20 tournament should have been in Australia, playing the Sheffield Shield teams in proper games.
Worst Ashes tour: 2013/14… Mitchell Johnson destroyed us and ended a few careers. I’ll never forget the battering the Aussies gave us.
That was Johnson being amazing this is you lot being rubbish 🤣
@@Anand-cx8po Agree. This is probably the most one sided Ashes series I've seen. At least in the 2013-14 series, there were some good bowling and batting efforts by England, but this time its all one sided.
Imagine having to face Johnson & co against this England side 😱
2013/14 Mitchell Jhonson was at his hostile and fiery best at that time...but still i would say this is the worst ashes ever...painful batting
Honestly I watched the entire ashes..that bowling from Johnson was legendary..never seen anyone bowl like that
If these post-mortems were 4 hours I’d still watch every minute
Love how they are making a fuss about Boland and yet for more than a decade they had Jason Gillespie, an awesome and great fast bowler with a double century to his name, and now a great coach. Never really given his due and treated shabily in the end. Was a class act too.
as an aussie totally agree. its the modern woke times that is now.
@@stephenlatimer1428 lol what
He should have been England coach...he was superb in UK county cricket...
@@louquay They're making a fuss about Boland because 3 years ago he discovered he's 1/8th Aboriginal and Australia suffers from the same Woke bufoonery as we do.
It’s a typical Aussie test win with opposition struggling and some Aussie newcomer being hailed as the hero and doing it on his home ground.
Forget this.... where is Mr Geoffrey Boycott's unfiltered take on the whole thing 😆... remember how he grilled Anderson after the last tour Down Under 😛
There’s something truly entertaining about listening to Boycott boil his own country.
Needs to find a word other than his trademark "rubbish" to explain the English performance
@@nitlover8319 he offers alot more than that mate although his sarcastic quips stick in people's heads alot more 😃. His assessment of England's last tour to Aus was bang on.
Remember that series where Carberry opened with Cook, we were searching for his opening partner. 8 years or more on, we’re still looking for openers. We always fail to prepare for the ashes in Australia. At home the ball will swing around corners then in a few years we’ll go to Aus and it will be lack of preparation again. We need to prepare for the next Australian away ashes series now.
It is very rare in any side at the moments to have a proper opening pair.
Seems proper opening Batsman, in all forms of the game is a dying breed..
Love this panel. Always looking forward to these guys..
It's always a pleasure to listen to Michael Atherton and Nasser Hussain
I feel for Joe Root. Wonderful to watch him bat.. One of the Greatest batsman of England
Nah. I rate Kevin Pietersen or any other English Batsman
@Saif Ullah Khan kp to me was better
@Saif Ullah Khan kp is better than root by a mile
@Saif Ullah Khan Kp scored heavily And dominate bowlers like warne McGrath murali root would struggle against those great time bowlers
One of the greatest in the world
As an Australian I have a lot of sympathy for the plight of England. Australia was in the same position not so long ago. You just need a few batters to find some form and put some pressure on Australia. If that happens the tide can turn very quickly (as happened when India toured Australia last year)
I agree with Athers. Not selecting Broad and Anderson for Brisbane was a fatal mistake.
wouldn't have made a difference with the batsmen failing to reach 200 each innings. they need a total to defend.
Dude if you’re barely 200 Anderson and broad arent going to make a difference especially in Australia.
If Australia batted first that day they would have still made 250+ So it wouldn't have mattered. Australian bowlers don't need pitch to help them
Wouldn't have mattered
Disagree with Rob Key when he compares the Australian team of 02/03 and the current crop. Yes, the 02/03 team had legends such as Warne and McGrath but several of Australia's current bowling attack will become legends. Cummins averages 21, Hazelwood 25 and Starc 27 with Lyon a really good spinner in these conditions. The addition of Green makes this a relentless attack. In Smith and Labuschagne, averaging 60+, alongside Warner (mid 40s ave) it's a decent batting side. There's solidity around this with even Travis Head averaging 42 now. Not a single English player bar Root averages over 40.
Yes, England have been awful but Australia have been REALLY good this series.
Yeah, I mean look at Haseen, I know he should have converted at least one innings, but the majority of his dismissals have been from potent bowling. The first innings was especially disappointing from England because their best players threw away their wickets, but for a lot of the series AUstralia has bowled fantastically. And England have bowled well in long periods, but Australia has been good with their own pitches to be patient and basically all contribute to certain extents. Yes, there are potential frailties, but England's poor performance doesn't overshadow the fact that this Australian side has the potential to take the next step and improve from the side they have been.
Yes you have to give Australia credit but batting in general at test level across the world apart from a few exceptions is the weakest I can ever remember so of course the Australian bowlers are going to have good averages. A lot of pitches are more bowler friendly these days too.
They are average team outside if Australia simple as that .the fast bowling is good batting only Smith and Marcus but they are not winning overseas ..every team at home looks like tigers
@@katana_3558 Yes, this Asian summer will be a big test, but I think the team is maturing and on a decent trajectory. COuld be wrong but we'll see.
@@joelwatt7356 bro - Haseeb - Not Haseeb 😉😂 that would mean - A hottie
As an Aussie, Rob was spot on. Our batting is shaky & it’s the bowling that did the job. Not a great side but a good one
Great bowling side. Not seen a better fast bowling attack since maybe England in 05.
Definitely a great side! This bowling unit is exceptional and the batting has less depth but still 3 world class Batsmen.
I think this Aussie bowling attack is the best we've had since Warne and McGrath. However the weakness is in the batting, outside of Labuschagne and Smith, it's very fragile.
@@AY-qf4pg I think the batting is very close, it's the bowling that has no comparison. England don't have the pace to inflict that sort of damage or pressure on a flat wicket outside of their own green tops when the ball is swinging.
@@nickrad6966 I think we have the pace with the likes of Archer, Stone and Wood. Unfortunately 2 of those 3 weren’t there due to injury. It would have been interesting if all 3 had been able to play, along with Sam Curran who also offers something totally different to what we have in Australia at the moment.
*The ECB. Money over everything. No preparation. Too much focus on white ball cricket. Inexperienced coaches. Jobs for the boys. No change in the English system. Too many inconsequential games of T20, and the silly Hundred taking precedence over everything*
💯
Advice the poms to watch Sachin’s 241* without a single cover drive in SCG. He got out a couple of times playing cover drives before then. No coach would have dared to ask Sachin not play cover drives, but he didn’t play a single cover drive in that whole match. That’s called personal responsibility.
England top 7 just announced for 4th Test. Five changes, Root staying at 4 and Extras pushed up the order.
1.Cook
2. Strauss
3. Vaughan
4. Root
5. Thorpe
6. Extras
7. Russell
They may not win, but they will probably take the match into the fourth day, at least.
The biggest problem we have is these are the best players we have in regards to red ball cricket! That's what is so scary! People go on about Stokes but he has been poor for a while even before he took his break, the only true player you can rely on is Root. Look at the runs scored in 2021, Root is miles clear or Burns in second & Bairstow in fourth! Our third highest scorer in 2021 is extras which tells you everything you need to know about the state we are in. Just imagine for a second we didn't have Root, where the hell would we be, bowled out for 30 probably. People will blame white ball cricket but the truth is Australian players play just as much white ball cricket as we do, the difference is they start with a solid technique & are brought up on more of a traditional game whereas our youngsters very rarely play county games its all to do with white ball
Thank God for extras lol!
Plus Australia haven't played a test match since January before this series 😬😬
exactly well said...
They aren't though. Hameed and Crawley aren't the best two openers, Leach isn't our best spinner, Buttler isn't in our top 10 best wicket keepers.
There's a start.
@@stepheng8779 then who is? I think our squad is the best we have
The perspective this team of experts provide irrespective of the teams at fray, is so insightful. Those just initiated to the game of cricket stand to gain much as do the lovers of the game gain perspectives!!!
A question to these great experts. Should central contracts be scrapped ? It would make sense. That means they should play 4-day county games at their counties’ behest !! These ridiculous contracts have deprived valuable long time red ball skills
England Top three batters this year :
1. Joe Root (1708)
2. Rory Burns (530)
3. EXTRAS (412) 😂
And Michael Atherton seems to be UTTERLY ignoring that issue - he sees the issue SOLELY as a Vs Australia issue!
I’d keep Mr. Burns and Mr. Extras in for a few more tests for sure 😂
Batter.....lovely on fish.
I would push Extras well up the order to number 6. He so often runs out of partners.
Great debate. Heard similar 3 years ago. Nothing happened. Our administrators are educated on minimal change. I know as an ex Cricket club Chairman. Our dysfunctional establishment have neither the will or ability to deliver. Saddens me. All the Sky money; where has it gone? I think I know. Certainly not to the grass roots.
Ashley Giles must answer
Slight tangent to your point but I also feel they're over relying on data analytics and the coaches. Root needs to be more assertive and trust his gut. Also develop and invest in quality players who can perform in all conditions. Nathan Lyon is the first pick among the Aussie bowlers regardless of conditions!
Seems like England are going through a phase which India went through in the 90s - over dependence on Sachin and while Sachin was the best batsman, not the best captain, the same can be applied to Joe Root - best batsman , maybe not the best captain. ENG needs a change in leadership and preserve the batsmanship of Root.
My concern with that is I don't really see who should take over. Stokes?
@@inghell Rory burns..!!!!!
Let Barstow take part. He is a fighter.
Root is the only player who plays every match though. Isn't the best idea to make someone a captain who will be dropped for any test
@@princenarayana he will burn the team
I was eagerly waiting for this show.These people are just amazing and give us more joy than watching matches.
England must turn their county competition into a regional competition made up of about 6 to 8 teams at the most. Have the very best players play for these regional teams and have the county system as the feeder comp like grade cricket is for the Sheffield Shield in Australia.
I would limit the CC to 12 teams, featuring the most historic teams. You can have the other 6 continue to play white ball cricket.
@@samdryden7944 you will never be able to fit in enough 4 day cricket games both home and away with 12 teams. 8 would be the absolute max. Plus the fact that England doesn’t have enough decent cricketers to fill 12 competitive teams. 12 teams only dilutes the competition.
I don't think you need to do that. The Ranji trophy in India has 38 teams. Has always been the case since the last 70+ years but the team is doing well now as compared to before. The reason behind it is the change in mindset particularly after the 2014 Australian tour where the team realised that to win test matches abroad they needed to take 20 wickets. In India they always had the spinners to do that but it wouldn't work overseas. So the pitches were changed to compliment pace bowlers. In India pitches now vary from flat pitches where bowlers develop tactics & patience while the batsmen learn to build long innings, rough pitches where reverse swing comes into play, hard bouncy pitches & grassy swinging conditions. So the bowlers are well rounded now to bowl in all conditions. There is no rocket science to it. England need to vary their pitches for players to learn to play in all conditions. Reducing counties would mean that a lot cricketers would lose their livelihood & 18 teams frankly ain't too many in my opinion.
@@ashishnair12 you have 1.2bn people in India. I’m sure you can fill the 38 teams with quality. There’s only 55 m in England and about 26m in Australia.
@@valueinvestor77 Like I said we had a huge population before as well but the quality wasn't there. Bangladesh for example are the 8th most populous country in the world but still haven't been able to achieve a lot in cricket after so many years. It has got nothing to do with the population. They play on horrendous tracks on which they win some series at home but then get trounced everywhere else. I've seen my team getting hammered 4-0 in Australia & England after we had just won the 2011 world cup, there was no shortage of players then as well but they were nowhere near the quality required or had lost motivation.
Though I am happy for Australia, I have full sympathy for England team. World cricket needs test cricket. So don't get disheartened. Work hard and come back strong.
If England has to atleast compete, then Root has to be cloned almost 5 times🤣🤣
Even root hasn't played well, he is kind of one eye person in group of blinds.
He is touring 4th tym in aus and still not even a single hundred tells that he is not agressive against them.
@@girishchand444 I think he got skill, but a lot of things stirring his head due to bad performance of his team.
@@prashanthadepu3013 sure he got skills in batting, but as a captain he has not motivated any of them plus decisions hve been horrible.
👍👍
I wish my country had some intellegent cricket analysts like sky cricket has. Look at what we have to watch..
Gavaskar,Manjrekar,Saba Karim, Ajit Agarkar(why?) , Sanjay Bangar (who doesn't seem to speak to himself much leave aside to viewers), Deep Dasgupta, Murali Karthik 😭😭😭😭😭😭
@Prathamesh uska naam v matt le 🙂🙂
😂
Well, would you rather have a good team and poor pundits or a poor team and good pundits?
Yes, that's because they need to polish the egg plant belonging to BCCI biggies....... That's what commentating is in India.
There is a lot baggage for commentators in india...biggest being you cant say anything about the bcci and co
I always look forward to see NH and MA share their views and analysis on any cricket competition around the world, not just on English cricket.
How we've all missed you guys on comms. Brilliant vodcast, broken down superbly
Guys, just look at the Indian team and see how their players adapt to different conditions. Almost 8 -10 players play all 3 forms of the game. They play flamboyant white ball cricket and are prepared to graft in test matches. They play through out the year, play the demanding IPL but never complain about fatigue, the bubble etc. They start early and play till their late 30's. Also take a look at their mental strength - get all out for 36 and then bounce back to win the series. Lose in England and bounce back to lead the series. English players and experts should look at the Indian model to improve their game.
Because of good pitches
Top point well made. India used to be the worst tourists outside of India and they took it to Australia last year. You can moan about white ball cricket all you like and techniques but India play more white ball than any other country and they can still bat
The problem is that England do not have the pool of great players that teams like India have!
@@NickandMelCruises 💯💯💯
@@stevebrindle1724 yes
Love this panel.. could u do this for non eng matches too
Masterclass in analysis. Objective, insightful with no potshots and off the cuff solutions. Sanjay Manjarekar should watch this before starting every commentary session !!.
Nasser is being too modest. He wasn't just there when Strauss made his debut - he ran him out in the second innings, a few runs short of a hundred, having already scored one in the first.
Nasser scored a century that game too
The last time England won an u19 word cup was in 1998 and only greame swan from that side made some impact at the senior level
The problem lies in how they are nurturing talent at school level ,, the current people ( 25 yrs and above ) are all time pass players
Root, stokes and anderson are the only players with any class or worth
As an expat Aussie living in the UK, winning is great but...England have been simply pitiful. It is is obvious that the ECB are disrespecting test cricket. I never thought I would say this but I actually feel sorry for the English Game and English supporters. As everyone has said for years and years after repeated 5 nil 4 nil results and likely 4 nil or 5 nil again this time around, unless the ECB and counties decide to reshape their game, then the ashes are just a joke. The administrators are all about money it seems. RIP the ashes. and RIP test cricket generally. And then what is left...modified baseball!
Well said James. The ECB are destroying the test game in England, and have been for years.
There are good players in England, overlooked by the corrupt system . In England you have to go to private school and that he comes from certain families to get selected, hence the issue. Exception is South Africa born players under Kolpak deal
Excellent point!
Why rip to test cricket the new rivalry and best team are in test india and australia. The new ashes it's now amazing to see ind vs australia.
@@sunriseorsunsetitsallabout187 Ahaha. Not even close. India don't eve play their great rivals Pakistan. Stay in your lane.
Listening to these gentlemen is simply wonderful and so educational. I too was frantically waiting for this analysis to come up….. and started searching soon after Cam Green bowled Jimmy Anderson.
Where is Ben Foakes ? He looked good couple of years back ? He looked compact and much better than Bairstow .. England need to think beyond Bairstow and Butler in test matches ..
That's ironic lol
England could use wicket keepers for the whole order. Butler Bairstow Billings Foakes Duckett. I probably missed a couple. They have probably the strongest white ball batsman in the world. They score more in 20 overs then in 2 test innings. It's surprising because England has the most difficult batting conditions in test cricket. Apart from maybe the spin of India.
Foakes CAN bat...century on test debut! Better 1st class and test average than Buttler! Far better keeper than Buttler, Bracey, Pope and even Bairstow (who never let England down as test keeper!). Foakes' whole unfussiness will give stability in the lower middle order.
I think Dan Lawrence deserves a proper run in the team too. His attitude and body language suggests that if shown a bit of faith, he may come good. He bowls a bit of quirky off spin too and already has a test wicket (maybe 2?).
agree with you on that. Foakes has better technique and resillience for every condition
Australia actually reduced the English cricket to "Ashes".
It all began in india earlier this year and in the summer
Australia just kept the fire going
If only Bob Willis was alive to rant about this.
Cricket being behind an expensive paywall for 16 years has had catastrophic consequences.
I’d say the best Australian side for the last 10 or so years. Four batsmen in the ICC top 10 and a great bowling attack. Having said that England made them look much better than they are, I’d like to see how Aus would do against NZ or India.
India beat us but we will beat NZ easily
When England was bowled out for 58 at Eden Park by New Zealand in 2018, in the first innings, the alarm bells should have been ringing then.
I’m an Aussie, here is my take on the series so far :
It looks bad at 3-0, but I think England had their chances in every test, they just had these batting collapses at critical moments. In Brisbane, they only needed 1 large partnership in the 2nd innings after Root and Milan and the Aussies would be under pressure. In Adelaide, Buttler was unlucky to tread on his stumps, another 10-15 overs and England could have saved it. In Melbourne (similar to Brisbane), 1 or 2 good partnerships in the 2nd innings would have the Aussies chasing 150 on a tricky pitch and under pressure. The English batsmen struggle on our pitches but I don’t think the Aussies should be crowing too much, their results haven’t been that great in England since 2000.
Spot on
R u sure u r Australian?
In Adelaide even Buttler wouldn't have saved the game with Anderson and broad in
Would have could have
@@robbstark4084 indeed
@Athers, @Ward, @Key and @Nasser, I know some of the counties are very old in English cricket, and there is a lot of tradition in how long some counties have been playing. But I heard Athers mention 18 teams. I'm not sure how many teams there are but I actually thought there may of been 20 plus. But I hate to give suggestions as to what could improve England's cricket. But it is getting kind of ridiculous as an Australian watching the English side being demolished every 4 years.
But something I thought about many decades ago, which I thought could improve English cricket, but probably would never eventuate due to county rivalry is just the following:
18 county sides. Keep those counties as they are, but that becomes second tier of English cricket and no one gets to the test side from those 18 sides.
But a first tier competition gets introduced. You then split England into 1/6 ths basically. You have 3 neighboring/bordering counties merge into a "super county" side and do that with each of the remaining 15 counties to form the other 5 "super county" sides
Then what? Well the English test side takes players from those 6 "super county" sides, and therefore you actually get even stronger competition for example let's say a Surrey player who wants to prove himself good enough to be a Test cricketer, he has to be one of the best players for the "super county" squad so he's also competing against the other Surrey players to make the cut then has to be one of the best players in the "super county" side to get even a look in to being selected for English Lions, let alone the English Test side.
What would I do with the international imports? Best thing for England cricket would have them bein the 18 county sides still to challenge the county players that if they want to be good enough to make the "super county" side then they have some international players testing them.
Conclusion why do I think a 6 "super county" side competition work, which would be tier 1, and tier 2 is the regular 18 county side competiion? Well comparing to Australia the "super" competition would be like Australia's sheffield shield, which is still one of the toughest domestic competitions in the world. To make those 6 states that play, you have to prove yourslef to each state for example: Tasmania, if you play for North Hobart, or Clarence, or University and so on, that you're good enough to be called up to the state side then you get a look in and then of course you have to be good enough to get Australian selection.
Why I don't think it would work, I couldn't see certain counties agreeing to merge for the sake of better competition, due to hundred plus years of rivalry.
But that's just something if the counties agreed, and it would require a majjor overhaul of cricket in England, but ultimately a tier of competition between counties and test/lion's side could actually improve cricket overall for England.
Keys is correct about batsmen getting worse over time within that England see up. The only exceptions are Root and Stokes, even though Stokes is badly under done at the moment. Butler has shown patches of improvement but has failed to maintain it. Bairstow was looking like becoming a top class test batsman at one point, but has fallen away badly. Crawley, Burns, Pope, and even to an extent, Sibley, made decent starts but have failed to improve and have infact got worse. Others have been given short opportunities but didn't grab them with both hands and weren't given any grace period worth speaking of. Jennings, Stoneman and the like. Malan looks like he's got some test ability, but he's already well into his 30s and still only averages 30 or less. The worrying thing is that there just isn't anyone else there. I'm not English or a major England supporter, but it's always good for international cricket when the main sides are strong, or at least decent. England at the moment are not! Yes, it's the batting. The fielding is an easier fix frankly, but a current problem also, and whilst they have some good bowlers, really, Anderson and Broad probably need to go now for the sake of English cricket being able to move on and build a new team that can win test matches. If England was winning and there were plenty of test quality bowlers backing them up, and in the wings, that would be one thing, but even two great bowlers get change their fortunes at the moment. I think it's awfully bad luck for England that Archer has such fitness trouble. Hard to know if he'll even be back. Ollie Robinson is excellent. Mark Wood is quick and decent, but I'm still not entirely convinced about him as a test match bowler. Again, he's over 30, and averages above 30 also. Woakes is good, very good, but he's not a spearhead. Very good all-rounder though, to go with Stokes. The batting all-rounder and the bowling all-rounder. They need a good spinner to. Moeen Ali was never a great spinner but he was a good one in helpful conditions. Bess and Leach aren't doing it. Hard when they're not playing admittedly, but they don't convince me. Maybe try and developed the long form games of Parkinson and Crane, but they'd have to, because neither of them are test bowlers yet.
Even small 30s and 40s can lift side up when Root is such fine form! One thing I have seen in this Ashes is that apart from Root none of the batsmen are willing to tire out the bowlers! Look at Sunil Gavaskar... he was up against a pace quartet all his career and he scored heavily against the likes of Holding... Garner.. Croft and Andy Roberts. When did you last see an English player walk upto to gavaskar and ask for some tips! Their ego is so high they would never ask one! While stalwarts like Sachin.. Kapil .. even Kohli would speak to legends like Viv Richards and Boycott to up their game.
Yes good comment
What amazes is england not only losing away from home... secondly d manner in which they are losing is worrysome.. the crowd not getting the moneys worth neither broadcasters will b happy as they might lose viewership due to one sided and early finish of test matches within 7 sessions twice in this ashes series..
You could probably argue that this is far bigger than England just losing, as you can still lose 5-0 and be competitive, ie all tests going 4/5 days, close scores etc. Test cricket does not have a bright future of matches are not entertaining, and to be that, they need to be competitive.
HATS OFF TO NASSER HUSSAIN FOR SUPERB ANALYSIS. HE ALONG WITH MIKE ATHERTON ARE ABOVE EVERY ONE ELSE. NASSER'S SELF ANALYSIS REGARDING HIS OWN CAPTAINCY IS TRULY HONEST.
Good to listen Nasser Husain
A lot of focus went in to be a formidable ODI and T20 team which England are now but lost the plot for test cricket!!
They drew an ODI World Cup and didn’t make the final of the t20. The focus on white ball is half baked too.
Stokes inclusion without a proper match practise is one of the reason.
Archer.😢😢😢
remember most of the Australians hadn't played much red ball either and the second test was pink ball..
@@ianmontgomery7534 Stokes was out of cricket for 6 months.Makes no sense in his inclusion.😁😁😁😁
Atherton nasir were great players and played quite a competitive cricket
Love this recap from English legends....Two more games to come, stay positive and focus on what you have coming. England, along with Pakistan and Australia, is a talented team.
Rob mentioned the name Gary Kirsten as one of the great former players, and quite rightly. It appears he has put his name into the hat as a possible successor to Silverwood should he not survive in his job past this current tour, and I'd love to know how you guys would evaluate Kirsten possibly taking over the reins. What would he bring to the English Head Coaching job that Silverwood has failed so badly with?
The Ashes gives a reflection of the relative competitiveness of the 2 countries in terms of professional cricket. The whole side were simply not up to it irrespective of the crowd, the pitch, the captain, the coaches, the preparation etc. It’s time for renewal - out with the old guard and rebuild. It’ll take 10 years to rebuild from this inglorious defeat.
Stokes a kid lol
@Manbaman, about two years or so only if the English cut out half the current line and take a risk and introduce new young hungry players .
@Tech SUPPORT Pope is a talent so is Zak Crawley..
I agree that Archer might not play test cricket again but still Wood & Stone can play atleast till next cycle they should have been breed in around 2016/17 itself.
Back in the day the test team would arrive earlier and play several practice matches to acclimatise with the different conditions. Covid didn't help with this series but it's been the ongoing trend.
Aussie FC competition has far fewer teams and the batters have higher quality bowlers to face so the jump to test cricket is easier for an Aussie batter. NZ is similar in that it too only has 6 FC teams and yet it produces 5 batters in the top 6 all averaging over 40 whereas England only has one in Root with the rest in the 30s if that.
England for 2/3/4 years before Ashes:
1. We are rotating our squad to keep our players fresh for Ashes
2. We want to give chance to many players to identify larger pool
3. We will go to Ashes with our best side and as fresh as possible.
During Ashes:
Why many changes from match to match ??
Because.. we don’t know which is our best side !!!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hooray, Nas is not wearing his usual sweater!
They say, some unfortunate captain always have to say the same thing in every end of the match...
*"We have to learn from our mistakes"*
My view on this is that we haven't learnt at all from 4 years ago. 1. We needed fast Bowlers yes Archer and Stone got injured but then why not give Mahmood or Mills experience in test cricket this summer to get them ready for the ashes. Plus we left Wood out of the 2nd test which made us paceless which is what happened 4 years so we haven't learnt. 2. Jack Leach or Dom Bess or whoever never got a chance either as we played Moeen Ali during the summer who got hammered in the ashes 4 years ago so why was he playing? Give someone match practice. And why do we keep peresiting with people who aren't good enough. Buttler is our 3rd best keeper and can't bat in test cricket. Which has messed Bairstow and Foakes up. Then having the openers who we knew weren't good enough but it took us an age to drop them so other batsman lacked time in the middle. Then the lack of games why wasn't Bairstow and Crawley not allowed to go and play for the Lions as if your out of nick you get in form by not playing some form of cricket. The whole thing from top to bottom is a mish mash and an utter calamity for our TEST CRICKET loving fans in England.
Was waiting for this
As an Aussie, just want to say that we also have a real lack of quality batting depth, and for a while now. I remember back in the '90's/2000's we had world class batters in shield cricket who could not crack a place in the national side eg: Bevan,Law, Siddons,Hodge etc. You take Ponting and Hayden out of those teams and the line up would still be top shelf. That's not the case today unfortunately.
You should worry!
Tbf mate I don't remember a better team that ever existed better then the 90's/ early 2000's team. Your asking for a lot.
I agree. Only Warner, labu and Smith are world class. Second string Indian line up exposed Aussies last year but this year even Travis Head looks like Bradman.
You are an opener short of becoming a quality batting test team. Aussies just dint play enough test cricket.. (Eng... + India = $$)
Somebody joked that England should appoint Ravi shastri as the coach or selector. But it’s his mentality that helped india win consecutive series in Australia
Loving the better video and audio quality
Furious as an England fan. Harrison, Giles and ECB need to take responsibility and restructure the English Structure, pitches, schedule & game to deliver decent cricketers,again. Period. And ditch the hundred or move it to end of season.
Please make sure to add Michael Vaughan to this kind of discussions 😂😂
More than the ashes we wait for your session of masterclass. We can hear you all day long 👌🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Hearing Mike Atherthon & Nass Hussain feels like listening to professor of cricket school.
Aaààaaààààaààà
What a debut Scotty Boland 🔥🔥
He should never play again just retire and speak 🗣 forever ♾
Eng should stop backing "players for the future" and pick players who are doing well in county. Picking players doing well in white ball for red ball makes no sense
Australia are Newly Crowned World 20-20 Champions. SEVEN of their squad in the First Test were in the 20-20 squad, including Warner & Cummins (who were arguably Players of the Tournament)!
@@michaelodonnell824 Those guys are established test players. It wasn't that Finch, Mitch Marsh, Stoinis and Maxwell who did well in world T20 got picked for the Ashes. Well Aus did try that in 2018 with Finch and it backfired big time.
You have a point but some of the players like pope and burns are legitimately the best county have
@@zaydjawad3653 Yes. But they averaging 30 for quite some time. You can't learn and get better on the job. Should have been demoted to Eng lions side and asked to get better in other conditions.
Eng test team have been unfair to players like Bairstow, Malan Vince by trying to replace them with players of the future.
May be ECB should organize a 75 Balls cricket Tournament next, it might help Eng's Test side by bringing in new aggressive players
Not everyone is like chanderpaul,miandad,langer or dravid who prevailed even as defensive batters, modern players donot have a solid,flawless technique like previous players so these modern players (of eng specially) should play according to their strength which means they have to play in tests like they play in odi or even t20s.
Some time it's feel like thy like to play only English condition.....
chanderpaul - Miandad - defensive ????
Miandad was one of the most attacking batsman
Sri Lankan supporter here. Felt bad for England. The Ashes rivalry is unmatched... well... that is till they organize a similar annual series between India and Pakistan. Now those numbers would hit Ashes’ numbers for a six. Sri lanka will be quite happy to host ☺️
Lol don't matter what little series India have. Nothing beats the story and history of the ashes. Your just jealous of it all. Your dreaming your little series will never hit the ashes numbers. Your little series just been bowled for a duck. Get over it. The ashes is bigger and better.
Probably need to change the selection policy from "oh he plays for Surrey and/or went to private school"
Indeed
And comes from a certain type of family
I haven't watched this yet but wanted to make a comment first... Root has scored the most runs in this series so far... Yes he has batted 6 innings compared to Warner 4, Marnus 5 and Head 4...but he is literally and has been for the longest time dragging England by his coat tails... Stokes has averaged 16 in 6 innings?? Woakes has scored more than he has in 4? So why the clamoring of Stokes to be captain? England need a new coach and ECB need to remember that Test cricket is the pincacle... They sucked at white ball for a long time and have knee jerked into making it their top priority
I keep root still as captain but if he wants to leave that's his own pregorative and nobody else because he has a brilliant year in terms of runs and I have a controversial selection of eoin Morgan to be the next in line as captain because this guy is fearful and he doesn't take any prisoners who doesn't perform under his leadership and look at him now under the t20 and one day set up
@@richardmartins1541 hmm maybe... Morgan Averages around 30 just like all the other English batsmen failing at the moment... Is a excellent captain and leader... At 35 it would be a bit of a stop gap instead of progress... I think firstly making Collingwood (one of my favorite players growing up) as coach of the test team as well will help align all the sides ( different captains in each form makes sense but different coaches is a mess) let Joe Root become Joe the Batsman, Jimmy and Stuart need to be moved on (there's no one better that's the problem), maybe bring Chris Woakes up the orderl to bat more, Sam Curran as the bowling all rounder... English Red ball is in trouble sadly.... But hey they can't be in as much trouble as my South Africa are right now
@Saurabh Biswal sorry he is going to retire next year probably the summer test series against South Africa at home watch this space
@Saurabh Biswal oh well we beg to differ
Re point around choice of captain, if Morgan was massively out of form, would you drop him from the one day/t20 sides, or keep him in due to his captaincy? I’d keep him in because I feel he plays a huge role as captain. Think that’s the argument around the captain.
Great. Conversation luv it
To be fair , Covid and especially restrictions in Australia have made preparations and practice for Aust conditions this tour really difficult - but there will no excuses next time, have a tour that starts earlier, matches against shield sides, warmup games, etc. but I don’t know if current boards and their approaches to scheduling will allow that.
This broadcast streamed more time than English batting ...
Naseer hussain is one of my favourites and one of the best commentators.
Heaps better than Shane Warne. I love Nasser’s commentary.
The constant reference to 260 by Crawley….of I remember correctly he was dropped early on and further 3-4 times during his 260! Give me 4 Chances I will score a double hundred as well!
Wow the Indian team missing several key players defeated the Aussies (full strength) last year, I don't think any other team can do it ever. Credit to them!
When it comes to skill, both Australia and England have very good players. I believe there is some sort of undercurrent going on in the England team. Without a doubt, Australia is a better team, but England is not far behind in terms of their ability to win matches. I believe the issue is off the field, and England's management must address it before further humiliation befalls the Lions.
"Humiliation" just has "befallen the Lions". Hopefully, the worst is over.
Except they don't win.
Micheal Vaughan goes into hiding after this thrashing of England 😂😂😂 just reminded me of his tweet when India was 36 all out.. India came back and thrashed both Australia and England back to back and now winning in South Africa.. lesson to be learnt by these so called English legends be humble.
Don't get cocky that aus IND series was tightly fought.
@@vanitakamat6071 yes it was tightly fought because it was our C team playing and still India won .. What happi to the Aus,eng,NZ,South Africa in India the get white washed by india.. Of
@@vanitakamat6071 btw I'm not being cocky I'm just stating u the facts.
I follow every cricket show around the globe but none better than this
Wow just wow 😍 , naseer sir the way u speak it's absolutely mesmerizing, love to hear u..