At this point I’m just hoping for a synopsis of how he intended it to end. I highly doubt he lives long enough to finish the actual story. But it would be nice to get the general outline of it.
The year is 2224. George RR Martin's brain has been digitally recreated using his genetic data. Known as the 'GRRM-bot', it runs at 10,000 x speed, never sleeps, and rarely focuses on other projects. **Beep boop** “I’ve made some good progress, but Winds of Winter still has a long way to go, guys".
It reminds me when plankton takes SpongeBob brains out and puts it in a bot that is as lazy as SpongeBob is 😂😂😂 2224 fanbase: hey Mr bot Martin, today's weather is beautiful! Just perfect to write some chapters aren't ya'?! Grrm bot: relax little man, I will do it laaaaaaterrrr 😎 😭😭😭
I remember back in 2013 I re-read the entire series from Book 1 to Book 5, to prepare for Winds of Winter, having convinced myself I needed to race to finish before it came out! That was 11 years ago...lol
Me too. Only thing is that I’ve read them three times through completely. Maybe it’s time to start over again. I wonder if I’ll have enough time. What do you think?🤔
George struggles for many reasons. The series is becoming way more magical and even though magic returning to the world that forgot about it is basically one of the pillars of this story, he has a big problem with writing about and using magic to solve problems. How much longer will he keep the readers in the dark? He also simply can't follow his original plan for the ending. He scrapped the time skip and characters are way to young and inexperienced to play their original roles how he originally planed. He introduced way to many characters and important storylines and he clearly enjoys worldbulding more than finishing the main story. He also can't fit it all in just 2 more books. Instead of taking care of his overgrown garden, he constantly buys more land to make more space for new plants. His old age also isn't helping.
See? I have a similar perspective about George’s inability to finish the saga in just two books. All with respect of course. Look at where we are in the main series: By book 5 (technically 4) we are *still* in phase one, dealing with the aftermath of the War of the Five Kings. Dany’s Conquest plot has barely started. And the Others’ Plot has not really moved since the 3rd Prologue. I would like him to finish the story, it just seems incredibly unlikely.
Let's put it this way. I read Joe Abercrombie's newest trilogy 2 or 3 years ago. The character freely warp about the world whenever they need to be somewhere else. I love Joe's writing, but GRRM doesn't do that. If someone is walking across Westeros, they'll spend the whole book walking. We've literally seen it happen. That's why I was surprised Jon Connington arrived in Westeros in Dance. Although, it's been 13ish years since I read that book so I may be forgetting details. If GRRM let himself cheat a bit more, it would hurt the writing, but we'd likely get books much quicker. Too bad. I don't regret reading the books at all, but I have mostly put them behind me.
Wow great takes in the replies all very well said. Yeah I just re read the series and IN DOD I didn’t remember it blatantly lacking of any sort of progress in the story. No one does anything! And that kind of cemented it for me that we aren’t getting shit
@@Ancor_Vantian I really can't imagine him writing the Daenerys invasion and the Others in just 2 books. I predict that the wall will fall somewhere towards the end of winds. Daenerys still has a lot to do and there is no way she is coming home in winds. Maybe at the beginning of dream she finally arrives in Westeros, but the Others will definitely make their presence known on the entire continent. Also Young Griff will already have gone through his invasion and show the readers this kind of storyline
I agree, in reality ASOIAF would have to be as long as the entire Cosmere in order to fully tell its story. ASOIAF imo is the best fantasy series ever written, and GRRM is definitely my favourite writer, but the level of detail he goes into both makes his series amazing but also just far too long, and because it's become so detailed, he's really struggling. There's a rumour he had a version of Winds done in 2016 but it got rejected because he tried to put way too much content into one book.
this or something similar is definitely what happened. He must have an idea for where he wants the book to end off for most of the major characters (e.g., Dany finally coming to Westeros) but his version in 2015 didn't get him there or didn't get him there in a way he felt satisfying. And because he had to rewrite some characters' stories, the ripple effects basically made him rewrite all the ones that intersect...just thinking about it gives me a headache
I don't follow the books really, just watched the show. But why is the age the issue? We already had Gleeson playing the Boy King killing people left and right in the TV show.
@@kellywilson137 Joffery starts the show at age 16. In the books Joffery was 12 at the start. Arya is still only 11 at the end of ADWD which is how old Arya was in Season 1 of GOT.
@@kellywilson137You’re missing something because you’re not understanding why Joffrey works regardless and why the others dont. Joffrey is a character who is MEANT to be a young, TERRIBLE king. Its the fact that he is young, bratty, and inexperienced that makes him do what he does. So him being 16 in the show or 12 in the books doesnt matter when the point of him is to be young and terrible For Arya, how is she meant to be this competent faceless assassin at 11 years old lmao and like almost no real training done? The timeskip would have made it more believable that in 5 years a 16 year old Arya could become a great assassin. Same with Jon. From what I remember he is currently like 15 or 16 and he isn’t a good warrior. He basically makes up for it with being good at battle planning but he’s been trying to become a better swordsman. If George did the timeskip, a young 20 something year old Jon Snow would have been training and could have become a good swordsman to contend with what is to come. Alot of the other characters are like this. They are too young and inexperienced to do the things they are meant to do. Even Dany in the books still cant get a reign in on her dragons. If George did the time skip she would have had 5 years to have tamed them and become a true threat.
@@kellywilson137Its pretty clear that George KNOWS this too. There’s quite a few characters that are CLEARLY replacements for characters that are still too young because George never did the time skip. Like how Eddric Dayne is set up to be the new sword of the morning but because the timeskip never happened to have him grow up a bit to be an actual warrior, George replaced him with a new character called “Gerold Dayne”. A character who HAPPENS TO BE EXACTLY THE AGE EDDRIC WOULD HAVE BEEN IF THE 5 YEAR TIME SKIP HAPPENED and basically wants to do the exact same shit Eddric did but is edgier about it. George knows he fucked up and basically wrote himself into a hole. None of the younger characters are even close to being ready and there are only 2 books left. There is basically no way for him to actually conclude the story at this rate because thats not enough.
I literally just finished dance today. It always annoyed me when people would comment under any GRRM news with "FINISH THE BOOKS" but when i was reading my final few chapters i could feel the doubt in myself begin. Now i'm just like all the other nerds. GIMME THE BOOK GEORGE
I think I have finished the books around 2016-2017. And for a while I was fine, because I thought "well, the last book came out in 2011, so maybe a year or two, and I'll have the next one to read no problem". And now it's been 7 years...I wish George all the best, but damn I'm tired of waiting
I read AGoT in like 2010 but didn't read the rest until after the tv series had already come out. Finished ADwD in like 2014 during my junior year in high school and felt pretty confident that the next book would be out soon. It's now 2024 and I'm 27 with a job, bills, etc. and the book's release date is still nowhere in sight.
My biggest fear with Winds is that it might be good and still get hated. Expectations just keep building higher and higher the longer it takes, and they may have risen beyond the point where its realistically possible to meet them. I get the sense that even if the book ends up being excellent, a lot of people are going to feel like "well, I waited 13 years and thats it?"
I don't think so. The storylines for every single character were better in the books than in the show and are heading in better directions. The released chapters are better than what happened in the show. DnD took a great story and removed 50% of it. Then butchered another 25%. Lol
This would be the case if the HBO show didn’t exist. Most people would compare Winds and Dream to the show and if it is superior (which isn’t hard to do), they will be satisfied.
@@notting2640lol that's a low bar indeed.. but then again, I think most people would just disregard show anyway when it comes to the books, so it's kinda irrelevant.
@@rubengabrielvaldiviesomach629 I don't really think he's lazy, he is by nature unfocused. It doesn't help that he is too prideful to leave a successor to write his books, that his gardening style makes him not plan ahead and that his books branch out in so many ways that it becomes a nightmarish mess to make everything coherent. Honestly, I just think he wrote himself into a corner and is just bashing his head against the wall until either of them break.
I've been re-reading the series and it really is striking how much faster and more efficient the pacing is in earlier books. It takes the whole KL crew 2 short chapters to travel from Winterfell to King's Landing, and in those 2 chapters he manages to establish like 6 different major plot lines. Cut to Winds where Arianne spends 2 chapters traveling half the distance with almost 0 plot progression. Not that I dislike the slower pace necessarily, I do love all the worldbuilding and intrigue he's able to put in, but it's no wonder it's taking him so damn long now.
I actually love the slow pacing and world building, no other story is able to scratch the ASOIAF itch because of it, it feels so real. But you can't have your cake and eat it, I also want to the plot to progress and for the books to actually come out, it,'s just impossible to do at the the pace he writes.
I don’t blame George for not finishing the series, however I do blame him for the lack of transparency and honesty. If he simply came out and said “Look guys, I bit off more than I can chew with this series. I’m old, tired, and rich, and I just wanna spend what time I have left relaxing and living life instead of stressing about finishing the books”, I would be disappointed but I would understand and get over it. At least then we’d have some closure in knowing that we’ll never get an ending to an otherwise phenomenal series. Instead, what we get is a never ending cycle of “maybe next year guys”. I can’t help but feel that we’re being strung along waiting for an ending that deep down we all know we’re never gonna get, all while George milks it for everything it’s worth. It feels like a slap in the face in all honesty.
@@ToxicCityOfficialWhat expectations and theorizing? I shared an opinion on a situation. Nothing more. If anything my comment represents a complete lack of expectation.
I don't think he's stringing us along. I really believe he's trying to write it but the reaction to the show gave him a lot of hesitation because a lot of those things are also planned to be in the books. I think he's second-guessing himself and that's why it's taking so long. Because of this I don't think he's writing naturally, I think he's writing defensively.
@@One.Zero.One101the show even before the terrible ending was already very different from the books. The show ending in no way I think is anything like his original planned ending.
@@Riqq44 Bran becoming king makes perfect sense bcz he wont be a conventional king, Think God Emperor of Dune, Bran becomes a monstrous hive mind king using the weirwood powers, ushering in a new era of magic and mystery. The series ends the generational ruler concept, replacing it with a dark emotionless horrifying creature ruling for centuries.
@@akshatkumar7938 hey you can deny it all you want. Bran becoming king is absolutely stupid and makes no sense. Sorry about your feelings they don’t matter.
I honestly don't think George is even writing the series anymore, I feel like he gave up somewhere and is just coasting by now that he's old and rich as shit. If he releases winds before he dies I will be incredibly shocked. If he somehow releases A Dream of Spring before he dies I will be absolutely blown away.
Winds will come because even if he dies there's enough manuscript pages to put something out. The real question is if there is enough there to potentially have other people finish Dream. I know he also has a team of people that help him remember details of the lore and world of ASOIAF, I wonder if they along with others know how he wants the series to end. A lot of it will also come down to instructions he puts in his will for the executors in terms of what he does or doesn't want.
Don't worry guys, once he dies, Kevin and Brian Herbert will find a floppy disk containing the outlines that GRRM wrote for the next 21 ASOIAF books, and they will publish all of them.
As an actual garderner, I think George needs to do what I do in the garden: pull weeds. And some of them could happen fast by having a few of the POV characters kill one another off AND resolve plot lines in the process. *(We've all done ourselves to fill in the time. It's fun.)* He could do it with the Winds chapters he has put out or not.
I think it’s easy to say that as fans, but being the person who wrote those characters it must be quite challenging to get rid of what you invested so many years in (even for George). However, I agree with you that he needs to trim down the plot if he wants the book to be anywhere near completion. He should really accept some help, specially at his age.
What depresses me most is that even if Winds comes out in the next couple years, he has a whole other book to write to conclude the series. Considering his age...ITS NOT HAPPENING.
I made the repeated mistake of getting excited for Winds again this year. I’ll just take a JonCon sample chapter and an update on Stannis at this point.
I’m speechless that Winds hasn’t come out yet. And not because I think what George does is easy, or that he’s had sufficient time, or anything like that. The only reason I’m speechless is because I distinctly remember sitting on my friends couch, and dance had just come out, the first season had happened, or was happening, think it happened already. And we both had just gotten the books and discussing it before we started reading the actual material, and I remember joking to my friend imagine The Winds of Winter doesn’t come out until the show is over?! And here we are, years passed the show, and still no Winds! I’m dying for this book to come out.
I truly feel sorry those who’ve been there since the start. I started reading the books in Covid after watching the show. Fell in love with the books… I’ve only been waiting 4 years and it’s unbearable.
@@Ag-qr6ii I got into ASOIAF last summer, it's been just over a year and I've exhausted all the content already, a lot of it multiple times and even I'm feeling impatient. Having such an amazing story means that the fans will be desperate for more.
Started reading the books in 2008 personally 😕 the show being announced in 2010/2011 was a high point for me and my friends, "finally" we thought, "with the release of a show George will be forced to write faster as he won't want the show to outpace the books." Oh boy, how wrong we were.
@@Ag-qr6ii Back in the day, I picked up GoT as a used mass market paperback, BK 2 as NEW mm paperback, BK 3 as a NEW Trade Paperback & 4&5 as new hardcover. Then the waiting...and waiting...then giving up hope for BK 6 or 7. The show ending with no new books was, for me, the sign to stop hoping.
2 years = Godly pace 5-6 years = Not optimal but understandable 13 years = AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
that 5-6 years gap is actually not accurate because both of those books were supposed to be one book and he just released one half of it. so technically its an 11 year break between book 3 and book 4+5
@@mum-your🤓 They're massive tomes in their own right. It's true that book 4 was one novel that got expanded into two occuring simultaneously which GRRM continued to refine between 2005-11, that doesn't make it an 11 year wait. There were indisputably two novels released during those 11 years but there have been zero mainline novels in 13 years. You just wanted to pendantically "um actually" someone.
UA-camr's winds of winter chronology videos are becoming my favorite youtube video genre lately. Great video! Thanks for the video! you won a new subscriber
But he is George RR Martin tho, a multi millionaire that doesn't need to write anything else and that's the truth. An editor could push some random guy who still works to live off books, but George? He has it all made, and even if he doesn't produce a single more book he still has House of the Dragon, the upcoming Dunk and Egg tv show too, and many other projects. And that's not even counting the many sales he still gets today of books, royalties from the tv shows and so on.
@@SilverSoulxdhonestly they should’ve tried to get some contract where he’s obligated to publish a book within a certain time frame or they can withhold his residuals
@@SEGSnews I'm not into that. I don't like the idea of punishing the money he's fairly _earned_ from written pages just because he hasn't written something new. As a fan, you shouldn't be into it either. We've gotten something like _ten_ books in this universe. He's more than earned his money. Any fan that isn't at the point where no Winds and no Spring isn't a big deal, they should get there. Personally, any more ASOIAF books that show up are a welcome luxury. Apart from that, I don't bother keeping up. There's no need; it's not like I won't know there's been a new release, lmao.
A Winds of Winter is the most anticipated book in the fantasy genre. George knows this, the fans know this even people that have only seen the show and not read a single book know this. George also knows that he has to deliver a Storm of Swords level of perfection even though Winds of Winter is more of a Clash of Kings in the sense that it doesn't resolve most issues just continues them. All we can realistically do is hope and wait. Edit: Grammar
Honestly it doesn't even need to be good for me at this point. If he released a bullet point list of what was supposed to happen and an FAQ on what is going on with the Mystical aspects (the Others, Azor Ahai Reborn, Three Eyed Raven etc) i would be happy. That way I can fill in the gaps myself, but at least I would have answers.
I don't blame George. The man is getting old, and his story is one of the most complex ever written. He spent like 10 years running back and forth between the show, his books, conventions, interviews, controversies and who knows what else. It's no wonder he lost his groove, and I'm betting he simply never found it again. So now he has to slog through it, like some homework he doesn't want to do. Coincidentally I think the same kind of thing happened with Rothfuss. He lost his groove and now writing the story doesn't come "naturally" to him. Meaning he would actually need discipline to write it, which just won't do with Rothfuss.
I'm an amateur and I can hardly call myself a writer but I can relate to some of that. In November 2022, I started my first ever attempt at fiction. For a few months, it was going pretty well until life did what it always does. I stopped writing for a month and when I came back, I couldn't write any more. The story had entirely left my head, or at least I thought of it that way. Fortunately for me, I didn't have the hopes and expectations of millions of people on my back. The only ones I disappointed were the few friends and family I had given chapters for feedback, and even they forgot by now. So when I see people bash Rothfuss or especially George for not writing, I can quietly tell myself, "I understand."
That's definitely a factor but I also feel like it's because the world he built got too big. The whole HotD came from an encyclopedic side project he made just to flesh out characters that then eventually went on to become its own thing.
Biggest difference between GRRM and Rothfuss us George even at a snails pace is producing something. Rothfuss hasn't written anything to anyone's knowledge. While GRRM has put out a dozen sample chapters and at least a few times a year will talk about it. If both authors were to die today and someone had to come in a publish what they had written. We'd probably get most of Winds and God knows how many other random side stories and histories of ASOIAF. Rothfuss we'd get... nothing. Wild how passionate I am about these two non-existent books.
Yet he still has the time and capacity to whine in blog posts about IP that he could have influenced but didn’t and then got mad about, sooo… I’m kind of at the point where I don’t feel bad for him. He got his bag and I respect that but to keep leading everyone on has made me apathetic toward him (this is a VERY recent development in my pov too btw)
@@bobjoemac1George has a much heartier constitution than Ruthfuss. The fandom complained about just one of Ruthfuss's characters and I feel like it just shut him down completely. George has dealt with (at least to me, if I was him) an intolerable amount of pressure from studio execs, publishers and millions of pissed off fans. People hating a ton of his decisions. People obliterating characters left and right. And of course people blaming him for the terrible ending of the best show in television history. People obliterating his own character all over the internet. I see new videos pop up on UA-cam weekly bitching about George. But he's still been trucking along. I wish people would give the man some grace. I feel like Covid was so productive for him because fans had something else to complain about for a year. I'd imagine being George is like being stuck in a room with millions of people screaming at you while you try to make your pen work. And for someone who takes his fandom very seriously, it has to be painful. I never add to that echo of voices even though I've waited all 13 years, even though the end of Thrones gutted me. My disappointment is completely overshadowed by the pristine work this man has given me. Thousand of hours of reread material, fantastic shows birthed from his head. So many theory and character breakdowns to enjoy. We may never get Winds. George is old, but look at what he has given us. More than Tolkien and definitely more than Patrick. I'm happy for what I got and anything else is just a lovely surprise.
@@Moriningland i think maybe he means that with the 5 year gap, he would be able to finish the story quicker, even if the writing was worse than without the gap.
@@Moriningland GRRM was going to introduce a 5 year time skip to let the characters grow up a bit "off-screen" - Arya would have time to become a ninja, Dany to become an adult and rule Meereen, Jon to be in his 20s instead of still a teenager while running the Watch...
I see your point but a gap that long wouldn’t fit with some characters and pulling off a five year gap is hard (as someone who is in the process of writing a long gap)
I appreciate how much more optimistic this was than the Rothfuss one. I truly believe that George has been upfront with us with his progress and his struggles, and he really does want to get the book out - as much as I believe that Rothfuss has been lying through his teeth and likely has no plans to ever release The Doors of Stone.
The sooner people accept he can’t, won’t or doesn’t know how to finish these books the better. He also probably saw a lot of his planned outcomes in the show torn to shreds, if that were me I wouldn’t even know where to begin.
At this point ot really doesn't matter if he releases Winds unless Spring is attached to it. Thats the only way to justify 14 years. He wanted to nail both books to ensure he could go back to rewriting six based on the ending of seven, thereby ensuring no loose ends. This is copium of the highest order, but there simply is no other justification for the wait. After all this time, one book just isn't good enough, nor does it explain his previous optimism. Great video btw, albeit tear inducing
your one hope is that George changes his mind about locking away his book notes, and lets someone else complete it, but I'm not holding my breath. Although, considering what he's let HBO do with his world, I guess it's not impossible he'd have a change of heart.
@@ataridc that, or the publishing company takes his estate to court claiming they are entitled to his books notes to complete the series since George unreasonably failed to complete his contractual obligations. (Unreasonably is the important part. He has taken a decade and half to finish 1 book, after promising over and over again it would be finished "next year". The courts may find him negligent in fullfiling his contractual obligations and therefore the publishers entitled to those book notes in his estate.) Now, I'll admit I'm not very knowledgeable on law nor contract obligations with publishers etc.....but what I do know, is that when other authors died who said nobody else would finish their work, it usually still ends up with someone else finishing their work against their wishes. Whether it is a family member getting the estate and rights to the books or a company or whatever. This is especially true for mainstream big authors. I think it doesn't really matter what GRRM wants, someone is going to finish those books when he is gone (if he doesn't finish them first 🤞). So he needs to just accept reality and start truly trying his best to finish the books or to start preparing for a family member to take control and work with the publisher to finish it. So that way his magnum opus doesn't get taken over by a big corporation.
@@nicklibby3784 if he'd destroy his notes and someone else got the rights I don't think I'd be as excited but I'd probably read it if for no other reason than it almost HAS to be better than what the geniuses D&D came up with.
Kinda reminds me of Tolkien. He planned the Silmarillion to be the follow up to the Hobbit but instead listened to his Publisher and wrote TLotR instead. He continued to work on the Silmarillion for years, created a huge but gorgeous mess and never completely finished it during his lifetime. To say it with the words of Chris Tolkien: He was too old to complete such a massive work. George will turn 76 in a few days and his clock is ticking. Not health wise but there will be a time where it is simply too late writing on a complex fantasy world with even more complex characters. Something crucial must had happened to TWoW in 2015. Now, maybe it's already too late for him to ever finish his song.
Just make it a two part book and release the first half. His fans have waited long enough, just give them some new content for now until hes done with the next part.
Yup, it would simultaneously give him more time to finish the 2nd part without fans or publishers hitting mad and hassling him. If he releases a part 1 now, people would mind waiting a couple, a few more years for part 2. I also think it would help GRRM finally COMMIT to the story more. It seems he keeps going back and re writing the book over and over and over again. If he released a part 1 it means he would have to commit to part of the story and would have to stay consistent with it, meaning he wouldn't be able to keep going back and changing or re writing things over and over again. I've been saying for the past 2 years that he needs to just drop a Part 1 & Part 2 for winds. Especially considering the book is 1,300 to 1,500 pages long. So splitting it in 2 parts would basically be one normal size book anyway.
I also forgot to mention, splitting winds in 2 parts would allow GRRM to do MORE without feeling stuck having to condense things down. GRRM said the book would be as big as publishers allow (1,300 to 1,500 pages). And he's been saying he has like 1,000+ pages finished for years now. I bet the REASON he keeps going back and re writing everything is because he can't figure out how to fit it all in 1 book (1,500 pages). If he does a part 1 and part 2, it means he can stop wasting time trying to figure out whats important enough to keep and what's not necessary throw away and how to fit it all in. GRRM is a Gardner!!!! He needs a little extra space for extra unnecessary things to be able to finish writing!!!! But he is constricted on space by trying to keep winds to fit in 1 book. I say he should just release 700 to 900 pages for part 1. And then let his full Gardner style out for part 2 with another 1,000 pages.
You know what's the worst part? It doesn't matter if he finishes Winds of Winter, because it's not the final book and if it's taking him this long to finish, I highly doubt he will.
let this be a lesson on scope creep and the dangers of garden writing. R.R. Martin fell victim to it and so can you. and it won't hit you until you try to turn the ship 2/3rds of the way there.
@kayjayhay yeah I never quite understood the Gardner analogy either. I mean with real gardening you actually have to "outline" what you're going to do, and follow a time schedule as nature demands it. GRRM sounds like those "Guerilla Gardeners" who illegally plant beneficial native plants in public places and government land or what not by just throwing tons of seeds everywhere and hoping a few sprout 🌱 and that in 20 years the land becomes beneficial. George isn't a Gardner, he's a guy who eats fruit on the back porch and spits & throws the seeds in the yard to see what sticks & survives out of curiosity because he doesn't know or care to actually plant & take care and nurture something. If it's something he likes he might water it and take care of it, if not he lets it wither and die. The problem is, his tastes are ever changing. So nothing is getting taken care of.
I remember reading the series back in 2015. I remember limiting myself to only reading 1 chapter per day when I read ADwD because I didn't want it to end, and I wanted to delay it so I could be ready for TWoW. 9 years later...
Everyone talks about how he wrote himself into a corner. It’s much more simple than that: he doesn’t enjoy writing these books anymore. And when we don’t enjoy doing something, we need to be motivated by some future outcome to get us through the tedium. But the show is over, he has as much money as he’s ever gonna need for the rest of his life, and so many people had a negative reaction to how the TV series ended that he can’t feel confident that the legacy of the series will be positive even if it is finished. He doesn’t want to finish them and has no internal motivation to finish them - but he feels obligated to satisfy the fans so he keeps saying he will finish them to alleviate his feelings of guilt. But his heart isn’t in the books, hasn’t been for years, and never will be again. It’s like a partner who claims that they are still totally in love with you, but you know intuitively that they’re not, and that they’re just staying with you out of some weird sense of duty or guilt.
Guys we’re coping HARD , he is already his worst critic , and the amount of pressure he has on his shoulders he’s probably writing chapters then scrapping them over and over just wanting to perfect the story despite the sewage route D&D went on , I don’t think we’re getting the ending to the story especially when George is getting older
its not that hard to write a good ending to an acclaimed series with established characters and setups. He could have written 6 books if 2 werent enough. 13 years lol
Honestly, I won't read this book, if it every gets done, until the final book is out. Never again will I ever read a series until every book is done and out.
After The Winds of Winter eventually comes out Martin should just write an essay summing up what happens to everyone, because I doubt he'll still be around in the 2030s to properly complete the story.
If this book is released before he dies, can you imagine the backlash it will inevitably receive? It will not be possible to meet expectations. The review titles will be "We waited 16 trillion years for this?"
The books did just get reissued with all new designs, which could be a big deal because they reissued the series with a new cover right before they released ‘Dance..’ in 2011! So here’s to crossing my fingers one more time! 😆
I stand by, for years, that A 'Promise Of Spring' will take only 2 years. 'Winds Of Winter' is having to tie endings he already had realized. So Winds is the book to tie the ending he already knows for the major plot points.
I find it crazy he didn't finish this shit during the Covid lockdown. This man is a professional procrastinator! Meanwhile, Anderson wrote like 500 novels during Covid.
I really enjoyed the video! Having scoured the Internet for news since 2012, it was a trip down memory lane. I look forward to seeing a new version of this video 12 years from now!
In my humble and insanely optimistic opinion, George is trying to get the bulk of ADOS outlined.. in my mind He has learned that he needed to hold TWOW back, to be able to adjust his story without being completely handcuffed by what he has released.. So because of the fact he's been 3/4's finished with TWOW since 2017.. I feel like he's honestly trying to wrap up the entirety of the end of his life's masterpiece. Imagine the pressure that has increased since the debacle of the HBO series seasons after season 5.. having the book release was going to be futile anyway, from the TV series going so far off the kings road so to speak. I believe GrrM is absolutely feeling the pressure of making the story end epically.. with all of the insane foreshadowing of which we are accustomed. For everyone who reads this laughing loudly right now.. just consider how absolutely fucked we are as fans, if I am wrong, and he's not somehow even considered a single page of A Dream of Spring, and when, or if we get The winds of winter and he has to begin this process all over again from the beginning.. yeah, brutal.. I bet you are liking the notion now..
these comments honestly make me sad, painting grrm out to be this evil maniacal author giggling and kicking his feet keeping the books from us. in a recent interview he says he wishes he waited to publish the series so he could fix things as he goes, so i could easily believe that the stagnation in the past two years is caused by some form of meticulous planning for ADOS. im under the belief (slightly delusional? maybe, definitely optimistic) that hes rage writing after the hotd s2 debacle, dude was raging on his blog and i dont blame him. i just feel bad for him at this point.
Wouldn’t surprise me if Tyrion will start taking control of Dany’s counsel and send them west while Dany flies with Drogon to the east to discover things there. We might also get a new POV character to properly explore those lands properly.
One of the worst things is people talk about this book like that’s all he’s got to do. When in reality he has at least one more to go. The guy just needs to kill off like 50 characters get it down to simple story because all he does is expand then we wonder why it’s so difficult to write. That’s also why the first two books were done in a timely manner because it was focused on just like 6-10 characters. Now I’m stuck reading chapters I don’t care about instead of more Jon and Danny.
Compered to Arian, Tyrion, Connington, victorian, Cercie,Davos,Reek, Danny in the three last books are arguably forgettable. A littérale snooze fest in mereen.
I've recently fallen down the asoiaf rabbit hole again after years and years. It's been a lot of fun to re-read and then watch UA-cam videos and stuff, but it has so made me extra sad knowing that even with all of the excitement and speculation... we're probably never going to get these books, we're probably never going to find out what happens in the story. Accepting that is so hard!
That was a pretty thorough summary, thanks! One thing I think is worth mentioning is that he tends to finish the ends of the books quickly once he's locked in all the plotlines. The percentage completed manuscript pages usually trailed behind the time it took to finish the books. He hovered around 500-1000 pages for 4 years and then finished all the way from there to the end (around 1800 pages if you include what was cut or moved to Winds) in a year and 9 months. So honestly he could be done any time at this point, just whenever he feels like he's figured out all the major beats and stopped going back to rewrite or restructure again and again.
i believe george said in one of his podcast interviews that he is finished with some POVs but with others he is still not close to being finished. This means that WINDS is still years from being released. Gimme something for the pain
@@kewl0210 The lack of NotABlog updates talking about characters he is working on makes me think he hasnt progressed too much in the last 2 years. I sincerely hope you are right though.
@@aaronl4935 I think at a certain point he just doesn't want to give progress reports because he doesn't want to get people badgering him about it or forcing him to give estimates. He said he "had to finish it" it in his speech at Bubonicon which is the closest thing we can get to an update these days.
4 місяці тому+6
I already got blackpilled several times about Winds, I didn't really care, but then I read the Forsaken chapter and man... I got sucked right back in, part of me still wants to believe we'll get it someday
I'm one of the people who think that once george saw the reaction to how the hbo series ended he went back and rewrote certain things in the the winds of winter which feed into him having to change other story elements adding additional stress to him getting it out
The showrunners also told in an intervirw that george gave em some bits and ideas from the upcoming books. With how complex the books are, if he changes one thing it'll change the entire thing completely. I also think this is why in 2015 he was confident but now he is not.
I think there are 3 main reasons: - 5 year gap, it's quite necessary in some arcs and it quite bad for others, so he's kinda screwed there. - His stubborness to finish in 2 books, 3 would be much easier. - HBO and all that came with it being a constant distraction.
I love the title. Novels are about ideas, humanity and more; a very difficult form of work. There definitely is a throne, even if it doesn’t physically exist, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
Wait people are upset that Danny went mad, or they’re upset with how quickly she did? He better keep that part in. He’s been foreshadowing that for years haha. I just hope he gets to that point more gracefully than the show did
I think that’s defo the plan. I mean it’s been teased and was even teased in the show a little early on, ever so slightly… which is the fault of d and d. George for sure will build up to it much more gracefully
@@RED-my9hl it’s about the execution and building towards decisions that make sense. He’s been foreshadowing Danny’s turn, and it makes sense as the final “rug pull” of sorts
I feel like there is a weird hype for TWoW lately. I want to read this book so badly. Fire and Blood and KoT7K are both SO good. I can't believe it will be 20 years since Feast soon.
Isn't funny that in that comic con footage, hes besides Patrick Rothfuss, another fantasy writter, probably inspired by tolkien and martin, that yet has not finished his trilogy of mythical fanatsy books, its been more than 10 years and thw last book Isn't ready either These dudes are more busy trying to get tv productions to pick up their scripts and appear on shows and conventions that to finish the things that gave them fame in the first place.
The first book came out in 1996, that's 28 years. Almost 3 decades. Imagine being a 21 year old college student in 1996 and you start reading game of thrones when it came out. You would be 49 years old turning 50 years old now. And by the time a dream of springs releases, you would be dang near retirement age!!!!! (65 years old!). Like wow.
28:50 - from what I understand, the reason for this face to face meeting was because the old publisher actually _passed away_ and he was meeting his son/replacement 😢
Don't want to blame Martin... but if you think about it 13 years is insane, like *really* insane, unironicall at this point each year that passes makes it worse, its just keeps adding fuel to a bad mix of frustration and ilogical hype that will be so unrealistic that even if the book is a 10 it still will be controversial, because that book would have been in production for what? 15 years? 17? that's literally someone's entire childhood and teens combined MAN💀
Just to put things into context, AGOT released in 1996. DOD released in 2011. We are RAPIDLY approaching the same time gap between the 5th and 6th book as we are the 1st and 5th book. Dream of Spring also wont be finished. Its not even because George could die before its finished; its because no single author series ever survives in the zeitgeist that long. Game of Thrones entered the zeitgeist properly when the HBO show came out. Thats over a decade ago now. Its surprising that it lasted THIS long, and frankly it only did that because George wrote a completely different story (Fire & Blood). Now House of Dragon was decent, but its rapidly becoming less of a return on investment for HBO. The streaming services dont do long-standing productions anymore, because as a series goes on, the production budget skyrockets, but the fanbase diminishes. Thats just showbiz baby. Its why Netflix cancels shows after only a couple seasons. What this means is that House of the Dragon will probably only get 3 seasons. MAYBE 4 if we are very lucky. But after that, theres really nothing worth the production budget. Im sorry for Dunk and Egg or Jon Snow fans, but those plot lines arent realistically enough to draw mainstream audiences back. They should have released while the iron was hot. But they didnt. And now as the normies are moving on, so too will HBO from Game of Thrones. And once HBO loses serious interest in Game of Thrones, it will leave the zeitgeist. Which means while we MIGHT get WoW by 2027, we wont get Dream of Spring at all. George will be so relieved to shit out WoW and exhausted from it that hes just gonna give up on Dream of Spring. In fact, i really souldnt be surprised if the reason hes taking so long is hes actually reverting the two books into one. But either way, hes done with Westeros once WoW comes out. And by the time it does, as i said, the zeitgeist has moved on. WoW will sell decently well, but it wont make nearly the numbers it should, and that will be the final nail in the coffin. His publishers will stop calling him for updates, Cons wont invite him anymore, kids on the street wont recognize him, and while part of that means less stress, it also means less pressure to finish Dream of Spring. And if it takes 15 years to finish WoW, we can reasonably expect Dream of Spring to take at least as long.
@kayjayhaydo you know gardener writer is ? They write with not much of a plan and have several characters and plots go on at the same time then figure what there gonna do .
George's desire to now detail every damn travel, along with creating such ridiculous bloat in terms of POVs, means this will likely never release. The show didn't motivate him, COVID didn't motivate him, getting closer to death doesn't motivate him, and the story clearly doesn't motivate him anymore either.
Enjoyable video, a feast for crows was nearly twenty years ago! some characters haven't had a POV chapter for 20 years! The elephant in the room of course is were discussing the winds of winter and not even considering when/if a dream of spring.
Literally no benefit in finishing it now. He's made his money and is a world recognized author. I don't blame him for not wanting to finish it he should just say that it's not coming.
@@dylancole3430thats what he is always asked about. Thats his magnum opus, what he will be remembered when hes gone. Believe me, if he cared about being just done with it OR money and bot the quality he wouldve already published it
But if he pushes out rubbish he’ll be known for running one of the largest fantasy stories into the ground. It would taint his status compared to if he just never actually finishes, that way at least there’d always be the what if.
Yeah definitely not gonna happen. Even if Winds of Winter is finished and he’s motivated to do the last book he doesn’t exactly look like the healthiest individual.
Although I am not banking on getting this series finished, I will always have hope. I still re read ASOIAF every few years just to keep everything fresh and alive in my head just in case
Goddess I'm so curious what happened from "I'm confident it'll be done in a few months" to almost a decade later and nothing. like I can only imagine he scrapped everything he wrote until that point and has been slowly rewriting it from scratch or close to. I wonder if any of the sample chapters we got will even be in the book.
GRRM is writing stories that are expanding the ASOIF universe before finishing it's backbone. That won't leave a good legacy to his creation. Tolkien finished the backbone to his Middle Earth universe (The Lord of the Rings). Whether you like Silmarillion and the other stuff compiled and/or written by Tolkien's son or not, at least the main story was completed by Tolkien himself. Herbert didn't finish the Dune series, but he at least left notes for his son to use to complete it. Whether you loke Brian Herbert's writing or the way things went, at least it was through Frank Herbert's approval and input. GRRM won't finish ASOIAF. But he can salvage it's legacy by writing out notes that establish where he intended the last two books to go and having someone else complete it. I think he would actually save it's legacy if, instead of having his publishers choose the writer(s), he hand-picks who it will be.
"I hope it doesn't take me six years like the last one has."
_The monkey paw curls its finger..._
ikr
At this point I’m just hoping for a synopsis of how he intended it to end. I highly doubt he lives long enough to finish the actual story. But it would be nice to get the general outline of it.
Meanwhile jon snow lying dead at castle black for 13 years
The 13 year gap.
lmaoooo 😂😢
Luckily the Wall is like a big fridge, so he should be well preserved...just a little bit of frostburn tho.
@@NeoDMCHe's chilling inside of Ghost
I think its to late to revive him
The year is 2224. George RR Martin's brain has been digitally recreated using his genetic data. Known as the 'GRRM-bot', it runs at 10,000 x speed, never sleeps, and rarely focuses on other projects.
**Beep boop** “I’ve made some good progress, but Winds of Winter still has a long way to go, guys".
It reminds me when plankton takes SpongeBob brains out and puts it in a bot that is as lazy as SpongeBob is 😂😂😂
2224 fanbase: hey Mr bot Martin, today's weather is beautiful! Just perfect to write some chapters aren't ya'?!
Grrm bot: relax little man, I will do it laaaaaaterrrr 😎
😭😭😭
G2R-Machine: "But I wrote another story about the targaryans!"
People can clown on Stephen King and getting hit by a van all they want, but it DID get him to finish the damn Dark Tower.
I like how you specified that it “RARELY” focuses on other projects and not “never”.
@ You’ve gotta be realistic 😛
I feel like GRRM has written more about not finishing TWoW than the actual book.
GRRM right now:
"...shit... i'm fucked" LOL
Hahaha
Take a shot every time GRRM says "I've made less progress writing Winds than I'd hoped" (liver failure speedrun)
I bet I could take all the words he’s written on Not a Blog, put them into a book, and it’ll be longer than all the current books combined.
At this point I’m more interested in hearing his post-mortem on what took so long than reading the actual novel.
Morbid
Accurate
That’s great because that all were getting 😂 I was optimistic for 10 years. Now I’m not lol
He'll probably take 30 years to write that
@@Zombiezay A post-mortem by GRRM on his writing process, not a post-mortem on GRRM himself.
George is such a tremendous storyteller even his release schedule has lore.
GRRM: I couldn't find a way for a 5 year timeskip
Frank H: Here, take this 4000 year time jump.
So real 😂😂
To be fair a 4000 year jump would be so much easier than a short one
Who is Frank H. ??
@ He wrote Dune series (you should check it it’s epic!!)
@@PeeotoI think it’s Frank Herbert, author of dune
I remember back in 2013 I re-read the entire series from Book 1 to Book 5, to prepare for Winds of Winter, having convinced myself I needed to race to finish before it came out! That was 11 years ago...lol
I sadly have done this 3 times lmao.
2 times for me. I made my peace around 5 years ago with never getting another book.
lol
Me too. Only thing is that I’ve read them three times through completely. Maybe it’s time to start over again. I wonder if I’ll have enough time. What do you think?🤔
I started reading them around 2017, I was sure that when I finished the fifth, WoW would be out...I finished the books in 2019 🤣
George struggles for many reasons. The series is becoming way more magical and even though magic returning to the world that forgot about it is basically one of the pillars of this story, he has a big problem with writing about and using magic to solve problems. How much longer will he keep the readers in the dark? He also simply can't follow his original plan for the ending. He scrapped the time skip and characters are way to young and inexperienced to play their original roles how he originally planed. He introduced way to many characters and important storylines and he clearly enjoys worldbulding more than finishing the main story. He also can't fit it all in just 2 more books.
Instead of taking care of his overgrown garden, he constantly buys more land to make more space for new plants. His old age also isn't helping.
See? I have a similar perspective about George’s inability to finish the saga in just two books.
All with respect of course.
Look at where we are in the main series:
By book 5 (technically 4) we are *still* in phase one, dealing with the aftermath of the War of the Five Kings.
Dany’s Conquest plot has barely started.
And the Others’ Plot has not really moved since the 3rd Prologue.
I would like him to finish the story, it just seems incredibly unlikely.
Let's put it this way. I read Joe Abercrombie's newest trilogy 2 or 3 years ago. The character freely warp about the world whenever they need to be somewhere else. I love Joe's writing, but GRRM doesn't do that. If someone is walking across Westeros, they'll spend the whole book walking. We've literally seen it happen. That's why I was surprised Jon Connington arrived in Westeros in Dance. Although, it's been 13ish years since I read that book so I may be forgetting details. If GRRM let himself cheat a bit more, it would hurt the writing, but we'd likely get books much quicker. Too bad. I don't regret reading the books at all, but I have mostly put them behind me.
Wow great takes in the replies all very well said. Yeah I just re read the series and IN DOD I didn’t remember it blatantly lacking of any sort of progress in the story. No one does anything! And that kind of cemented it for me that we aren’t getting shit
@@Ancor_Vantian I really can't imagine him writing the Daenerys invasion and the Others in just 2 books.
I predict that the wall will fall somewhere towards the end of winds. Daenerys still has a lot to do and there is no way she is coming home in winds. Maybe at the beginning of dream she finally arrives in Westeros, but the Others will definitely make their presence known on the entire continent.
Also Young Griff will already have gone through his invasion and show the readers this kind of storyline
I agree, in reality ASOIAF would have to be as long as the entire Cosmere in order to fully tell its story. ASOIAF imo is the best fantasy series ever written, and GRRM is definitely my favourite writer, but the level of detail he goes into both makes his series amazing but also just far too long, and because it's become so detailed, he's really struggling. There's a rumour he had a version of Winds done in 2016 but it got rejected because he tried to put way too much content into one book.
Wake up guys, we got history of Winds of Winter before Winds of Winter
this is both so very sad and so true.
GRRM treats The Winds of Winter like I treat the unfinished fanfiction I wrote in high school 💀
Big mood, there. Big mood
Na fr
Go finish it! Prove him wrong
FELT 😭
Sounds like he had a mostly finished novel in 2015 that turned out to be flawed in fundamental ways that demanded a majority rewrite.
I think so too!
It really seems like not doing the 5 year time skip was a giant mistake
@@Ryan30z he really should have done the time skip and if he wanted to cover anything in that period they could have been separate novellas
this or something similar is definitely what happened. He must have an idea for where he wants the book to end off for most of the major characters (e.g., Dany finally coming to Westeros) but his version in 2015 didn't get him there or didn't get him there in a way he felt satisfying. And because he had to rewrite some characters' stories, the ripple effects basically made him rewrite all the ones that intersect...just thinking about it gives me a headache
And that takes 9+ years to fix? Because, as of the time of writing this silly comment, there is no sign of the book releasing this year.
Winds of Winter videos helped me understand how to spot a toxic relationship.
Sure…
Douglas Addams used to say, "I LOVE deadlines, I love the WHOOSHING noise they make as they go by!"
😂 every boy in highschool basically.
Kids born the year Dance came out are now older than Arya
Thanks... makes me feel like a grandpa... 😅
I blame the fact that he didn’t age up the characters. He wrote himself in a corner with how young they are
I don't follow the books really, just watched the show.
But why is the age the issue?
We already had Gleeson playing the Boy King killing people left and right in the TV show.
@@kellywilson137 Joffery starts the show at age 16. In the books Joffery was 12 at the start. Arya is still only 11 at the end of ADWD which is how old Arya was in Season 1 of GOT.
@@evsboi77 Yeah, but what is the primary issue exactly?
a 12 Y Joffery can still do everything 16 y Joffery can.
Am I missing something?
@@kellywilson137You’re missing something because you’re not understanding why Joffrey works regardless and why the others dont.
Joffrey is a character who is MEANT to be a young, TERRIBLE king. Its the fact that he is young, bratty, and inexperienced that makes him do what he does. So him being 16 in the show or 12 in the books doesnt matter when the point of him is to be young and terrible
For Arya, how is she meant to be this competent faceless assassin at 11 years old lmao and like almost no real training done? The timeskip would have made it more believable that in 5 years a 16 year old Arya could become a great assassin.
Same with Jon. From what I remember he is currently like 15 or 16 and he isn’t a good warrior. He basically makes up for it with being good at battle planning but he’s been trying to become a better swordsman. If George did the timeskip, a young 20 something year old Jon Snow would have been training and could have become a good swordsman to contend with what is to come.
Alot of the other characters are like this. They are too young and inexperienced to do the things they are meant to do. Even Dany in the books still cant get a reign in on her dragons. If George did the time skip she would have had 5 years to have tamed them and become a true threat.
@@kellywilson137Its pretty clear that George KNOWS this too. There’s quite a few characters that are CLEARLY replacements for characters that are still too young because George never did the time skip. Like how Eddric Dayne is set up to be the new sword of the morning but because the timeskip never happened to have him grow up a bit to be an actual warrior, George replaced him with a new character called “Gerold Dayne”. A character who HAPPENS TO BE EXACTLY THE AGE EDDRIC WOULD HAVE BEEN IF THE 5 YEAR TIME SKIP HAPPENED and basically wants to do the exact same shit Eddric did but is edgier about it.
George knows he fucked up and basically wrote himself into a hole. None of the younger characters are even close to being ready and there are only 2 books left. There is basically no way for him to actually conclude the story at this rate because thats not enough.
I literally just finished dance today. It always annoyed me when people would comment under any GRRM news with "FINISH THE BOOKS" but when i was reading my final few chapters i could feel the doubt in myself begin. Now i'm just like all the other nerds. GIMME THE BOOK GEORGE
The same thing happened to me 😂 my optimism slowly declined the more I was read
I think I have finished the books around 2016-2017. And for a while I was fine, because I thought "well, the last book came out in 2011, so maybe a year or two, and I'll have the next one to read no problem". And now it's been 7 years...I wish George all the best, but damn I'm tired of waiting
You finished it today? Try having finished it 12 years ago.
SAME. But I finished about 2 years ago. Now I hate this guy lol
I read AGoT in like 2010 but didn't read the rest until after the tv series had already come out. Finished ADwD in like 2014 during my junior year in high school and felt pretty confident that the next book would be out soon. It's now 2024 and I'm 27 with a job, bills, etc. and the book's release date is still nowhere in sight.
My biggest fear with Winds is that it might be good and still get hated. Expectations just keep building higher and higher the longer it takes, and they may have risen beyond the point where its realistically possible to meet them. I get the sense that even if the book ends up being excellent, a lot of people are going to feel like "well, I waited 13 years and thats it?"
It's a guarantee Winds will receive vitriolic hate no matter how good it is. That's just how people are 😔
I don't think so. The storylines for every single character were better in the books than in the show and are heading in better directions. The released chapters are better than what happened in the show. DnD took a great story and removed 50% of it. Then butchered another 25%. Lol
This would be the case if the HBO show didn’t exist. Most people would compare Winds and Dream to the show and if it is superior (which isn’t hard to do), they will be satisfied.
My thoughts exactly.... like.. the imaginations have already ran wild and one simply can't satisfy everybody most likely... 🤷🏼
@@notting2640lol that's a low bar indeed.. but then again, I think most people would just disregard show anyway when it comes to the books, so it's kinda irrelevant.
I can't believe it's been 13 years since ADWD and still no TWOW. Incredible.
Laziest writer.
It actually hurts my soul.
He is playing the bongos
@@rubengabrielvaldiviesomach629 I don't really think he's lazy, he is by nature unfocused. It doesn't help that he is too prideful to leave a successor to write his books, that his gardening style makes him not plan ahead and that his books branch out in so many ways that it becomes a nightmarish mess to make everything coherent. Honestly, I just think he wrote himself into a corner and is just bashing his head against the wall until either of them break.
I've been re-reading the series and it really is striking how much faster and more efficient the pacing is in earlier books. It takes the whole KL crew 2 short chapters to travel from Winterfell to King's Landing, and in those 2 chapters he manages to establish like 6 different major plot lines.
Cut to Winds where Arianne spends 2 chapters traveling half the distance with almost 0 plot progression.
Not that I dislike the slower pace necessarily, I do love all the worldbuilding and intrigue he's able to put in, but it's no wonder it's taking him so damn long now.
THIS. In all TWoW sample chapters, it feels like nothing happens.
obv with more info being juggled the pacing is going to get slower, that is natural for any series
@@someguyoutthere110 TBH, I read your comment and can't remember who Ariadne (sp) is or what she was doing.🤷
I actually love the slow pacing and world building, no other story is able to scratch the ASOIAF itch because of it, it feels so real. But you can't have your cake and eat it, I also want to the plot to progress and for the books to actually come out, it,'s just impossible to do at the the pace he writes.
Even if Winds will ever release, which I highly doubt, Dream never will.
That's the beauty of it, It'll just be a Dream of Spring...
100% wont come out
Maybe in a few decades from now after he's died a friend or family member will finish the books using Martin's outlines
@@ThwipThwipBoomUnfortunately GRRM doesn’t keep outlines because of his gardening storytelling style 😂
Maybe he's secretly writing both
I don’t blame George for not finishing the series, however I do blame him for the lack of transparency and honesty. If he simply came out and said “Look guys, I bit off more than I can chew with this series. I’m old, tired, and rich, and I just wanna spend what time I have left relaxing and living life instead of stressing about finishing the books”, I would be disappointed but I would understand and get over it. At least then we’d have some closure in knowing that we’ll never get an ending to an otherwise phenomenal series. Instead, what we get is a never ending cycle of “maybe next year guys”. I can’t help but feel that we’re being strung along waiting for an ending that deep down we all know we’re never gonna get, all while George milks it for everything it’s worth. It feels like a slap in the face in all honesty.
Problem is, I think he is also in denial that he can finish winds
This comment sucks harder than waiting for wow.
Your expectations and theorizing are pure entitlement and really disrespectful
@@ToxicCityOfficialWhat expectations and theorizing? I shared an opinion on a situation. Nothing more. If anything my comment represents a complete lack of expectation.
I don't think he's stringing us along. I really believe he's trying to write it but the reaction to the show gave him a lot of hesitation because a lot of those things are also planned to be in the books. I think he's second-guessing himself and that's why it's taking so long. Because of this I don't think he's writing naturally, I think he's writing defensively.
@@One.Zero.One101the show even before the terrible ending was already very different from the books. The show ending in no way I think is anything like his original planned ending.
I think no one is mad that Danny got mad or Bran became king. We are mad because it made no sense how it got there.
Maybe the mad queen can be done. But bran becoming king is absolutely stupid.
@@Riqq44 Bran becoming king makes perfect sense bcz he wont be a conventional king, Think God Emperor of Dune, Bran becomes a monstrous hive mind king using the weirwood powers, ushering in a new era of magic and mystery. The series ends the generational ruler concept, replacing it with a dark emotionless horrifying creature ruling for centuries.
@@akshatkumar7938 no it doesn’t it’s absolutely ridiculous and idiotic. Knock it off kiddo
@@Riqq44 WOW what a measured and thoughtful counterpoint u have present here good sir
@@akshatkumar7938 hey you can deny it all you want. Bran becoming king is absolutely stupid and makes no sense. Sorry about your feelings they don’t matter.
I honestly don't think George is even writing the series anymore, I feel like he gave up somewhere and is just coasting by now that he's old and rich as shit. If he releases winds before he dies I will be incredibly shocked. If he somehow releases A Dream of Spring before he dies I will be absolutely blown away.
Yeah Dream of Spring is never coming
I made peace with the fact that Dream is 100% not coming a long time ago. But I always thought Winds was inevitable, I don't know anymore.
Winds will come because even if he dies there's enough manuscript pages to put something out. The real question is if there is enough there to potentially have other people finish Dream. I know he also has a team of people that help him remember details of the lore and world of ASOIAF, I wonder if they along with others know how he wants the series to end.
A lot of it will also come down to instructions he puts in his will for the executors in terms of what he does or doesn't want.
@@AC030he dont want them to finish it he wants tjem to burn it
@@turtleanton6539 honestly if he were that creative integrity driven, what the fuck is he doing signing checks for multiple HBO adaptations?
Don't worry guys, once he dies, Kevin and Brian Herbert will find a floppy disk containing the outlines that GRRM wrote for the next 21 ASOIAF books, and they will publish all of them.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
This hurt because it's true.
Who uses floppy disks anymore 😂 ?
I laughed for 10 seconds and now I will cry for 10 hours when I think about what those two did.
I thought it would fall to Brandon Sanderson just like with the Wheel of Time.
Imagine there being a 30 minute video on "the complete history" on a book you haven't even finished yet
As an actual garderner, I think George needs to do what I do in the garden: pull weeds.
And some of them could happen fast by having a few of the POV characters kill one another off AND resolve plot lines in the process. *(We've all done ourselves to fill in the time. It's fun.)*
He could do it with the Winds chapters he has put out or not.
I think it’s easy to say that as fans, but being the person who wrote those characters it must be quite challenging to get rid of what you invested so many years in (even for George).
However, I agree with you that he needs to trim down the plot if he wants the book to be anywhere near completion. He should really accept some help, specially at his age.
I think he needs some DDT
love your videos dude. No unnecessary and flashy editing, just a a comfy summary of all the information
What depresses me most is that even if Winds comes out in the next couple years, he has a whole other book to write to conclude the series. Considering his age...ITS NOT HAPPENING.
I made the repeated mistake of getting excited for Winds again this year.
I’ll just take a JonCon sample chapter and an update on Stannis at this point.
I desperately wanna know about the battle of ice... it's killing me.
I’m speechless that Winds hasn’t come out yet. And not because I think what George does is easy, or that he’s had sufficient time, or anything like that. The only reason I’m speechless is because I distinctly remember sitting on my friends couch, and dance had just come out, the first season had happened, or was happening, think it happened already. And we both had just gotten the books and discussing it before we started reading the actual material, and I remember joking to my friend imagine The Winds of Winter doesn’t come out until the show is over?!
And here we are, years passed the show, and still no Winds! I’m dying for this book to come out.
I truly feel sorry those who’ve been there since the start. I started reading the books in Covid after watching the show. Fell in love with the books… I’ve only been waiting 4 years and it’s unbearable.
@@Ag-qr6ii I got into ASOIAF last summer, it's been just over a year and I've exhausted all the content already, a lot of it multiple times and even I'm feeling impatient. Having such an amazing story means that the fans will be desperate for more.
Don’t seem speechless to me lad
Started reading the books in 2008 personally 😕 the show being announced in 2010/2011 was a high point for me and my friends, "finally" we thought, "with the release of a show George will be forced to write faster as he won't want the show to outpace the books."
Oh boy, how wrong we were.
@@Ag-qr6ii Back in the day, I picked up GoT as a used mass market paperback, BK 2 as NEW mm paperback, BK 3 as a NEW Trade Paperback & 4&5 as new hardcover. Then the waiting...and waiting...then giving up hope for BK 6 or 7.
The show ending with no new books was, for me, the sign to stop hoping.
2 years = Godly pace
5-6 years = Not optimal but understandable
13 years = AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
children have started school, graduated, and started college since the last book.
that 5-6 years gap is actually not accurate because both of those books were supposed to be one book and he just released one half of it. so technically its an 11 year break between book 3 and book 4+5
13 and counting
@@mum-your🤓 They're massive tomes in their own right. It's true that book 4 was one novel that got expanded into two occuring simultaneously which GRRM continued to refine between 2005-11, that doesn't make it an 11 year wait. There were indisputably two novels released during those 11 years but there have been zero mainline novels in 13 years. You just wanted to pendantically "um actually" someone.
So can ae see tbe 6 500+pages books you've written in the past 13 years?
UA-camr's winds of winter chronology videos are becoming my favorite youtube video genre lately. Great video! Thanks for the video! you won a new subscriber
This man needed an editor with some balls. He could have finished 2 full series by now if he had that.
But he is George RR Martin tho, a multi millionaire that doesn't need to write anything else and that's the truth. An editor could push some random guy who still works to live off books, but George? He has it all made, and even if he doesn't produce a single more book he still has House of the Dragon, the upcoming Dunk and Egg tv show too, and many other projects. And that's not even counting the many sales he still gets today of books, royalties from the tv shows and so on.
@@SilverSoulxdhonestly they should’ve tried to get some contract where he’s obligated to publish a book within a certain time frame or they can withhold his residuals
was his last editor a woman??
@@SEGSnews I'm not into that. I don't like the idea of punishing the money he's fairly _earned_ from written pages just because he hasn't written something new. As a fan, you shouldn't be into it either. We've gotten something like _ten_ books in this universe. He's more than earned his money.
Any fan that isn't at the point where no Winds and no Spring isn't a big deal, they should get there. Personally, any more ASOIAF books that show up are a welcome luxury. Apart from that, I don't bother keeping up. There's no need; it's not like I won't know there's been a new release, lmao.
If you run the numbers, he could have written the first draft of both books by now even if he just wrote 100 words a day.
A Winds of Winter is the most anticipated book in the fantasy genre. George knows this, the fans know this even people that have only seen the show and not read a single book know this.
George also knows that he has to deliver a Storm of Swords level of perfection even though Winds of Winter is more of a Clash of Kings in the sense that it doesn't resolve most issues just continues them. All we can realistically do is hope and wait.
Edit: Grammar
I think people will forgive that it doesn't resolve everything because it's ideally the low point before A Dream
Honestly it doesn't even need to be good for me at this point. If he released a bullet point list of what was supposed to happen and an FAQ on what is going on with the Mystical aspects (the Others, Azor Ahai Reborn, Three Eyed Raven etc) i would be happy. That way I can fill in the gaps myself, but at least I would have answers.
Completely wrong, Feast and Dance was build up for Winds.
I don't blame George. The man is getting old, and his story is one of the most complex ever written.
He spent like 10 years running back and forth between the show, his books, conventions, interviews, controversies and who knows what else.
It's no wonder he lost his groove, and I'm betting he simply never found it again. So now he has to slog through it, like some homework he doesn't want to do.
Coincidentally I think the same kind of thing happened with Rothfuss. He lost his groove and now writing the story doesn't come "naturally" to him. Meaning he would actually need discipline to write it, which just won't do with Rothfuss.
I'm an amateur and I can hardly call myself a writer but I can relate to some of that. In November 2022, I started my first ever attempt at fiction. For a few months, it was going pretty well until life did what it always does. I stopped writing for a month and when I came back, I couldn't write any more. The story had entirely left my head, or at least I thought of it that way. Fortunately for me, I didn't have the hopes and expectations of millions of people on my back. The only ones I disappointed were the few friends and family I had given chapters for feedback, and even they forgot by now. So when I see people bash Rothfuss or especially George for not writing, I can quietly tell myself, "I understand."
That's definitely a factor but I also feel like it's because the world he built got too big. The whole HotD came from an encyclopedic side project he made just to flesh out characters that then eventually went on to become its own thing.
Biggest difference between GRRM and Rothfuss us George even at a snails pace is producing something. Rothfuss hasn't written anything to anyone's knowledge. While GRRM has put out a dozen sample chapters and at least a few times a year will talk about it. If both authors were to die today and someone had to come in a publish what they had written. We'd probably get most of Winds and God knows how many other random side stories and histories of ASOIAF. Rothfuss we'd get... nothing.
Wild how passionate I am about these two non-existent books.
Yet he still has the time and capacity to whine in blog posts about IP that he could have influenced but didn’t and then got mad about, sooo… I’m kind of at the point where I don’t feel bad for him. He got his bag and I respect that but to keep leading everyone on has made me apathetic toward him (this is a VERY recent development in my pov too btw)
@@bobjoemac1George has a much heartier constitution than Ruthfuss. The fandom complained about just one of Ruthfuss's characters and I feel like it just shut him down completely.
George has dealt with (at least to me, if I was him) an intolerable amount of pressure from studio execs, publishers and millions of pissed off fans. People hating a ton of his decisions. People obliterating characters left and right. And of course people blaming him for the terrible ending of the best show in television history. People obliterating his own character all over the internet. I see new videos pop up on UA-cam weekly bitching about George. But he's still been trucking along.
I wish people would give the man some grace. I feel like Covid was so productive for him because fans had something else to complain about for a year. I'd imagine being George is like being stuck in a room with millions of people screaming at you while you try to make your pen work. And for someone who takes his fandom very seriously, it has to be painful.
I never add to that echo of voices even though I've waited all 13 years, even though the end of Thrones gutted me. My disappointment is completely overshadowed by the pristine work this man has given me. Thousand of hours of reread material, fantastic shows birthed from his head. So many theory and character breakdowns to enjoy.
We may never get Winds. George is old, but look at what he has given us. More than Tolkien and definitely more than Patrick. I'm happy for what I got and anything else is just a lovely surprise.
Not having the 5 year gap in the story will forever be his biggest mistake.
Can you elaborate on this?
@@Moriningland i think maybe he means that with the 5 year gap, he would be able to finish the story quicker, even if the writing was worse than without the gap.
@@Moriningland GRRM was going to introduce a 5 year time skip to let the characters grow up a bit "off-screen" - Arya would have time to become a ninja, Dany to become an adult and rule Meereen, Jon to be in his 20s instead of still a teenager while running the Watch...
@@XFondueX yeah, would have moved the story along to where it would have been easier to wrap it all up.
I see your point but a gap that long wouldn’t fit with some characters and pulling off a five year gap is hard (as someone who is in the process of writing a long gap)
I appreciate how much more optimistic this was than the Rothfuss one. I truly believe that George has been upfront with us with his progress and his struggles, and he really does want to get the book out - as much as I believe that Rothfuss has been lying through his teeth and likely has no plans to ever release The Doors of Stone.
The sooner people accept he can’t, won’t or doesn’t know how to finish these books the better. He also probably saw a lot of his planned outcomes in the show torn to shreds, if that were me I wouldn’t even know where to begin.
At this point ot really doesn't matter if he releases Winds unless Spring is attached to it. Thats the only way to justify 14 years. He wanted to nail both books to ensure he could go back to rewriting six based on the ending of seven, thereby ensuring no loose ends.
This is copium of the highest order, but there simply is no other justification for the wait. After all this time, one book just isn't good enough, nor does it explain his previous optimism.
Great video btw, albeit tear inducing
your one hope is that George changes his mind about locking away his book notes, and lets someone else complete it, but I'm not holding my breath. Although, considering what he's let HBO do with his world, I guess it's not impossible he'd have a change of heart.
@@ataridc that, or the publishing company takes his estate to court claiming they are entitled to his books notes to complete the series since George unreasonably failed to complete his contractual obligations. (Unreasonably is the important part. He has taken a decade and half to finish 1 book, after promising over and over again it would be finished "next year". The courts may find him negligent in fullfiling his contractual obligations and therefore the publishers entitled to those book notes in his estate.)
Now, I'll admit I'm not very knowledgeable on law nor contract obligations with publishers etc.....but what I do know, is that when other authors died who said nobody else would finish their work, it usually still ends up with someone else finishing their work against their wishes. Whether it is a family member getting the estate and rights to the books or a company or whatever.
This is especially true for mainstream big authors.
I think it doesn't really matter what GRRM wants, someone is going to finish those books when he is gone (if he doesn't finish them first 🤞). So he needs to just accept reality and start truly trying his best to finish the books or to start preparing for a family member to take control and work with the publisher to finish it. So that way his magnum opus doesn't get taken over by a big corporation.
@@nicklibby3784 if he'd destroy his notes and someone else got the rights I don't think I'd be as excited but I'd probably read it if for no other reason than it almost HAS to be better than what the geniuses D&D came up with.
13 years is TRULY bonkers.
Kinda reminds me of Tolkien. He planned the Silmarillion to be the follow up to the Hobbit but instead listened to his Publisher and wrote TLotR instead. He continued to work on the Silmarillion for years, created a huge but gorgeous mess and never completely finished it during his lifetime. To say it with the words of Chris Tolkien: He was too old to complete such a massive work. George will turn 76 in a few days and his clock is ticking. Not health wise but there will be a time where it is simply too late writing on a complex fantasy world with even more complex characters. Something crucial must had happened to TWoW in 2015. Now, maybe it's already too late for him to ever finish his song.
Thanks for that. I am refreshing his blog every day since 2011...
Just make it a two part book and release the first half. His fans have waited long enough, just give them some new content for now until hes done with the next part.
Yup, it would simultaneously give him more time to finish the 2nd part without fans or publishers hitting mad and hassling him. If he releases a part 1 now, people would mind waiting a couple, a few more years for part 2.
I also think it would help GRRM finally COMMIT to the story more. It seems he keeps going back and re writing the book over and over and over again. If he released a part 1 it means he would have to commit to part of the story and would have to stay consistent with it, meaning he wouldn't be able to keep going back and changing or re writing things over and over again.
I've been saying for the past 2 years that he needs to just drop a Part 1 & Part 2 for winds. Especially considering the book is 1,300 to 1,500 pages long. So splitting it in 2 parts would basically be one normal size book anyway.
I also forgot to mention, splitting winds in 2 parts would allow GRRM to do MORE without feeling stuck having to condense things down. GRRM said the book would be as big as publishers allow (1,300 to 1,500 pages). And he's been saying he has like 1,000+ pages finished for years now. I bet the REASON he keeps going back and re writing everything is because he can't figure out how to fit it all in 1 book (1,500 pages).
If he does a part 1 and part 2, it means he can stop wasting time trying to figure out whats important enough to keep and what's not necessary throw away and how to fit it all in. GRRM is a Gardner!!!! He needs a little extra space for extra unnecessary things to be able to finish writing!!!! But he is constricted on space by trying to keep winds to fit in 1 book.
I say he should just release 700 to 900 pages for part 1. And then let his full Gardner style out for part 2 with another 1,000 pages.
@@nicklibby3784Those are manuscript Pages. It wouldn’t be 1,500 Pages in printp
13 year time skip in TWOW confirmed. George just wanted to immerse us in the story
Fitting that jon has been dead for thirteen years considering the importance of the number.
The long night where he write walked into a wall called writer's block for over a decade - poetic
2:15 It's almost like George has accidentally written a prequel series to an unwritten main story when you hear it like this.
You know what's the worst part? It doesn't matter if he finishes Winds of Winter, because it's not the final book and if it's taking him this long to finish, I highly doubt he will.
let this be a lesson on scope creep and the dangers of garden writing.
R.R. Martin fell victim to it and so can you. and it won't hit you until you try to turn the ship 2/3rds of the way there.
@kayjayhay yeah I never quite understood the Gardner analogy either. I mean with real gardening you actually have to "outline" what you're going to do, and follow a time schedule as nature demands it.
GRRM sounds like those "Guerilla Gardeners" who illegally plant beneficial native plants in public places and government land or what not by just throwing tons of seeds everywhere and hoping a few sprout 🌱 and that in 20 years the land becomes beneficial.
George isn't a Gardner, he's a guy who eats fruit on the back porch and spits & throws the seeds in the yard to see what sticks & survives out of curiosity because he doesn't know or care to actually plant & take care and nurture something. If it's something he likes he might water it and take care of it, if not he lets it wither and die. The problem is, his tastes are ever changing. So nothing is getting taken care of.
prove it
I remember reading the series back in 2015. I remember limiting myself to only reading 1 chapter per day when I read ADwD because I didn't want it to end, and I wanted to delay it so I could be ready for TWoW. 9 years later...
Dont worry guys, the book will surely release next year
Everyone talks about how he wrote himself into a corner. It’s much more simple than that: he doesn’t enjoy writing these books anymore. And when we don’t enjoy doing something, we need to be motivated by some future outcome to get us through the tedium. But the show is over, he has as much money as he’s ever gonna need for the rest of his life, and so many people had a negative reaction to how the TV series ended that he can’t feel confident that the legacy of the series will be positive even if it is finished. He doesn’t want to finish them and has no internal motivation to finish them - but he feels obligated to satisfy the fans so he keeps saying he will finish them to alleviate his feelings of guilt. But his heart isn’t in the books, hasn’t been for years, and never will be again. It’s like a partner who claims that they are still totally in love with you, but you know intuitively that they’re not, and that they’re just staying with you out of some weird sense of duty or guilt.
What a terrible ZOOMER take.
“Im not working cuz I just dont ‘feel’ like doing it, i need a mental health day”
6:04 why does my entire life revolve around these two men not releasing a fucking book
hehehehe
Guys we’re coping HARD , he is already his worst critic , and the amount of pressure he has on his shoulders he’s probably writing chapters then scrapping them over and over just wanting to perfect the story despite the sewage route D&D went on , I don’t think we’re getting the ending to the story especially when George is getting older
Jrr martin is just waiting for the A.I to be good enough to finish the books for him.
Indeed🎉😊🎉
its not that hard to write a good ending to an acclaimed series with established characters and setups. He could have written 6 books if 2 werent enough. 13 years lol
@@sss1029 Winter isn’t coming
@@Rain47 true, he'll probably manage to write some more prequel stuff and maybe a couple short stories
Now is the winter of our discontent.
Made glorious summer by this son of Stark (hopefully)
Honestly, I won't read this book, if it every gets done, until the final book is out. Never again will I ever read a series until every book is done and out.
After The Winds of Winter eventually comes out Martin should just write an essay summing up what happens to everyone, because I doubt he'll still be around in the 2030s to properly complete the story.
If Winds does come out, it might not be till the 2030s anyway.
Could it be possible that the Writing process has turned into a Fiest/Dance situation and he's actually writing both Winds and Dream at the same time.
If this book is released before he dies, can you imagine the backlash it will inevitably receive? It will not be possible to meet expectations. The review titles will be "We waited 16 trillion years for this?"
Maybe the real winds was the content we made and saw along the way ❤
The books did just get reissued with all new designs, which could be a big deal because they reissued the series with a new cover right before they released ‘Dance..’ in 2011!
So here’s to crossing my fingers one more time! 😆
I think late 2025 is the earliest we can hope for TWOW
@@jishnubhattacharyya37way later than that. Maybe 2028 earliest.
@@The_Struggler_ Yeah you're right I know.. I was just being delusionally hopeful lol 😂
Sweet Summer Child…
@The_Struggler_ people will find your comment in 2028 and say "maybe in 2035"
I stand by, for years, that A 'Promise Of Spring' will take only 2 years. 'Winds Of Winter' is having to tie endings he already had realized. So Winds is the book to tie the ending he already knows for the major plot points.
its a dream not promise
the one and only book i ever waited for and of course it has to be the one that never actually releases
I find it crazy he didn't finish this shit during the Covid lockdown. This man is a professional procrastinator! Meanwhile, Anderson wrote like 500 novels during Covid.
I really enjoyed the video! Having scoured the Internet for news since 2012, it was a trip down memory lane. I look forward to seeing a new version of this video 12 years from now!
Meanwhile Steven Erikson puts out 10 absolutely insane books between 1999-2011. It’s fuckin bonkers that Malazan is still slept on so much.
What's it about?
Just read the first chapter of it. Yeah this writing is good. I'm intrigued!
@@badyoutuber1986it is complicated
That's true but since then he has written at a slower pace, though still much faster than GRRM!
I'd disagree. The prose is bad. It takes till book 7 for Ericsen to get to the level of George and not consistantly.
In my humble and insanely optimistic opinion, George is trying to get the bulk of ADOS outlined.. in my mind He has learned that he needed to hold TWOW back, to be able to adjust his story without being completely handcuffed by what he has released.. So because of the fact he's been 3/4's finished with TWOW since 2017.. I feel like he's honestly trying to wrap up the entirety of the end of his life's masterpiece. Imagine the pressure that has increased since the debacle of the HBO series seasons after season 5.. having the book release was going to be futile anyway, from the TV series going so far off the kings road so to speak. I believe GrrM is absolutely feeling the pressure of making the story end epically.. with all of the insane foreshadowing of which we are accustomed. For everyone who reads this laughing loudly right now.. just consider how absolutely fucked we are as fans, if I am wrong, and he's not somehow even considered a single page of A Dream of Spring, and when, or if we get The winds of winter and he has to begin this process all over again from the beginning.. yeah, brutal.. I bet you are liking the notion now..
I think he is just lazy and lies to his devoted readers
these comments honestly make me sad, painting grrm out to be this evil maniacal author giggling and kicking his feet keeping the books from us. in a recent interview he says he wishes he waited to publish the series so he could fix things as he goes, so i could easily believe that the stagnation in the past two years is caused by some form of meticulous planning for ADOS. im under the belief (slightly delusional? maybe, definitely optimistic) that hes rage writing after the hotd s2 debacle, dude was raging on his blog and i dont blame him. i just feel bad for him at this point.
Wouldn’t surprise me if Tyrion will start taking control of Dany’s counsel and send them west while Dany flies with Drogon to the east to discover things there. We might also get a new POV character to properly explore those lands properly.
One of the worst things is people talk about this book like that’s all he’s got to do. When in reality he has at least one more to go. The guy just needs to kill off like 50 characters get it down to simple story because all he does is expand then we wonder why it’s so difficult to write. That’s also why the first two books were done in a timely manner because it was focused on just like 6-10 characters. Now I’m stuck reading chapters I don’t care about instead of more Jon and Danny.
Compered to Arian, Tyrion, Connington, victorian, Cercie,Davos,Reek, Danny in the three last books are arguably forgettable. A littérale snooze fest in mereen.
I've recently fallen down the asoiaf rabbit hole again after years and years. It's been a lot of fun to re-read and then watch UA-cam videos and stuff, but it has so made me extra sad knowing that even with all of the excitement and speculation... we're probably never going to get these books, we're probably never going to find out what happens in the story. Accepting that is so hard!
That was a pretty thorough summary, thanks!
One thing I think is worth mentioning is that he tends to finish the ends of the books quickly once he's locked in all the plotlines. The percentage completed manuscript pages usually trailed behind the time it took to finish the books. He hovered around 500-1000 pages for 4 years and then finished all the way from there to the end (around 1800 pages if you include what was cut or moved to Winds) in a year and 9 months. So honestly he could be done any time at this point, just whenever he feels like he's figured out all the major beats and stopped going back to rewrite or restructure again and again.
i believe george said in one of his podcast interviews that he is finished with some POVs but with others he is still not close to being finished. This means that WINDS is still years from being released. Gimme something for the pain
@@aaronl4935 He said that about 2 years ago in October 2022. Hopefully he's almost done now.
@@kewl0210 The lack of NotABlog updates talking about characters he is working on makes me think he hasnt progressed too much in the last 2 years. I sincerely hope you are right though.
@@aaronl4935 I think at a certain point he just doesn't want to give progress reports because he doesn't want to get people badgering him about it or forcing him to give estimates. He said he "had to finish it" it in his speech at Bubonicon which is the closest thing we can get to an update these days.
I already got blackpilled several times about Winds, I didn't really care, but then I read the Forsaken chapter and man... I got sucked right back in, part of me still wants to believe we'll get it someday
Man, why the hate for Fire & Blood? That shit was amazing.
funny how he's sitting right next to Patrick Rothfuss in that one panel
I'm one of the people who think that once george saw the reaction to how the hbo series ended he went back and rewrote certain things in the the winds of winter which feed into him having to change other story elements adding additional stress to him getting it out
still, the show ended like 5 years ago
@@qBodi Not to mention some of the plot points dont make sense to happen in the books as they happen in the show........
@@stanmarsh4566 that's not that big of a problem
The showrunners also told in an intervirw that george gave em some bits and ideas from the upcoming books. With how complex the books are, if he changes one thing it'll change the entire thing completely. I also think this is why in 2015 he was confident but now he is not.
I think there are 3 main reasons:
- 5 year gap, it's quite necessary in some arcs and it quite bad for others, so he's kinda screwed there.
- His stubborness to finish in 2 books, 3 would be much easier.
- HBO and all that came with it being a constant distraction.
I love the title.
Novels are about ideas, humanity and more; a very difficult form of work.
There definitely is a throne, even if it doesn’t physically exist, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
I don't know why he just doesnt take what he has and release it as "Winds of Winter Part 1" I think people would like that fine enough.
I predict after another 13 years we will still be waiting.
Can’t wait for Brandon Sanderson to finish this series in 10 months.
Wait people are upset that Danny went mad, or they’re upset with how quickly she did? He better keep that part in. He’s been foreshadowing that for years haha. I just hope he gets to that point more gracefully than the show did
I think that’s defo the plan. I mean it’s been teased and was even teased in the show a little early on, ever so slightly… which is the fault of d and d. George for sure will build up to it much more gracefully
After the way the show went, I think grrm has a different ending for danny.
@@RED-my9hl it’s about the execution and building towards decisions that make sense. He’s been foreshadowing Danny’s turn, and it makes sense as the final “rug pull” of sorts
@@acoop9865 I hope her madness became a thing as an effect of the new supposedly Targaryen threat, instead of just whatever they did with the show.
I feel like there is a weird hype for TWoW lately. I want to read this book so badly. Fire and Blood and KoT7K are both SO good. I can't believe it will be 20 years since Feast soon.
Isn't funny that in that comic con footage, hes besides Patrick Rothfuss, another fantasy writter, probably inspired by tolkien and martin, that yet has not finished his trilogy of mythical fanatsy books, its been more than 10 years and thw last book Isn't ready either
These dudes are more busy trying to get tv productions to pick up their scripts and appear on shows and conventions that to finish the things that gave them fame in the first place.
My daughter was born the year dance of dragons came out and she's going in the high school next year
The first book came out in 1996, that's 28 years. Almost 3 decades.
Imagine being a 21 year old college student in 1996 and you start reading game of thrones when it came out. You would be 49 years old turning 50 years old now.
And by the time a dream of springs releases, you would be dang near retirement age!!!!! (65 years old!).
Like wow.
Imagine starting a book series as a 21 year old in college. And by the time the series is over you are a retired 65 year old.....
She'll have a PhD before we get TWoW
28:50 - from what I understand, the reason for this face to face meeting was because the old publisher actually _passed away_ and he was meeting his son/replacement 😢
At this point I doubt the series will ever be finished. gosh lets hope THIS BOOK is released at some point
Great video. But now I’m depressed
It’s taken him this long to write: food, zombies, Wincest and dragons? Maybe it’s the order of those words…
Don't want to blame Martin... but if you think about it 13 years is insane, like *really* insane, unironicall at this point each year that passes makes it worse, its just keeps adding fuel to a bad mix of frustration and ilogical hype that will be so unrealistic that even if the book is a 10 it still will be controversial, because that book would have been in production for what? 15 years? 17? that's literally someone's entire childhood and teens combined MAN💀
half life 3
4:41 George and Patrick Rothfuss together in one place 😅. All the information needed to know when we are getting the final book
If he decides to write the next D & E or f & b before winds...we will be waiting for 10 more years.
as an Web 1.0 cat it is wild to see those old Deadjournal colors/font again, holy cow.
Just to put things into context, AGOT released in 1996. DOD released in 2011. We are RAPIDLY approaching the same time gap between the 5th and 6th book as we are the 1st and 5th book.
Dream of Spring also wont be finished. Its not even because George could die before its finished; its because no single author series ever survives in the zeitgeist that long. Game of Thrones entered the zeitgeist properly when the HBO show came out. Thats over a decade ago now. Its surprising that it lasted THIS long, and frankly it only did that because George wrote a completely different story (Fire & Blood).
Now House of Dragon was decent, but its rapidly becoming less of a return on investment for HBO. The streaming services dont do long-standing productions anymore, because as a series goes on, the production budget skyrockets, but the fanbase diminishes. Thats just showbiz baby. Its why Netflix cancels shows after only a couple seasons.
What this means is that House of the Dragon will probably only get 3 seasons. MAYBE 4 if we are very lucky. But after that, theres really nothing worth the production budget. Im sorry for Dunk and Egg or Jon Snow fans, but those plot lines arent realistically enough to draw mainstream audiences back. They should have released while the iron was hot. But they didnt. And now as the normies are moving on, so too will HBO from Game of Thrones.
And once HBO loses serious interest in Game of Thrones, it will leave the zeitgeist. Which means while we MIGHT get WoW by 2027, we wont get Dream of Spring at all. George will be so relieved to shit out WoW and exhausted from it that hes just gonna give up on Dream of Spring. In fact, i really souldnt be surprised if the reason hes taking so long is hes actually reverting the two books into one. But either way, hes done with Westeros once WoW comes out.
And by the time it does, as i said, the zeitgeist has moved on. WoW will sell decently well, but it wont make nearly the numbers it should, and that will be the final nail in the coffin. His publishers will stop calling him for updates, Cons wont invite him anymore, kids on the street wont recognize him, and while part of that means less stress, it also means less pressure to finish Dream of Spring.
And if it takes 15 years to finish WoW, we can reasonably expect Dream of Spring to take at least as long.
I'm pretty sure a rain forest would still be better organized than GRRM "garden"
@kayjayhaydo you know gardener writer is ? They write with not much of a plan and have several characters and plots go on at the same time then figure what there gonna do .
George's desire to now detail every damn travel, along with creating such ridiculous bloat in terms of POVs, means this will likely never release. The show didn't motivate him, COVID didn't motivate him, getting closer to death doesn't motivate him, and the story clearly doesn't motivate him anymore either.
His writing style is NOT suited for a story so complex. He is in desperate need of an editor.
He has 150. He Had 10, 10 years ago
Enjoyable video, a feast for crows was nearly twenty years ago! some characters haven't had a POV chapter for 20 years!
The elephant in the room of course is were discussing the winds of winter and not even considering when/if a dream of spring.
he is never finishing it
He might finish Winds in a few years, but we are for sure never getting A Dream Of Spring.
Literally no benefit in finishing it now. He's made his money and is a world recognized author. I don't blame him for not wanting to finish it he should just say that it's not coming.
@@dylancole3430thats what he is always asked about. Thats his magnum opus, what he will be remembered when hes gone. Believe me, if he cared about being just done with it OR money and bot the quality he wouldve already published it
But if he pushes out rubbish he’ll be known for running one of the largest fantasy stories into the ground. It would taint his status compared to if he just never actually finishes, that way at least there’d always be the what if.
Yeah definitely not gonna happen. Even if Winds of Winter is finished and he’s motivated to do the last book he doesn’t exactly look like the healthiest individual.
Although I am not banking on getting this series finished, I will always have hope. I still re read ASOIAF every few years just to keep everything fresh and alive in my head just in case
Goddess I'm so curious what happened from "I'm confident it'll be done in a few months" to almost a decade later and nothing. like I can only imagine he scrapped everything he wrote until that point and has been slowly rewriting it from scratch or close to. I wonder if any of the sample chapters we got will even be in the book.
GRRM is writing stories that are expanding the ASOIF universe before finishing it's backbone. That won't leave a good legacy to his creation.
Tolkien finished the backbone to his Middle Earth universe (The Lord of the Rings). Whether you like Silmarillion and the other stuff compiled and/or written by Tolkien's son or not, at least the main story was completed by Tolkien himself. Herbert didn't finish the Dune series, but he at least left notes for his son to use to complete it. Whether you loke Brian Herbert's writing or the way things went, at least it was through Frank Herbert's approval and input.
GRRM won't finish ASOIAF. But he can salvage it's legacy by writing out notes that establish where he intended the last two books to go and having someone else complete it. I think he would actually save it's legacy if, instead of having his publishers choose the writer(s), he hand-picks who it will be.
The worst thing is he hasn't finished ANY of those side stories either, no dunk and egg, no fire and blood, no whatever crap he comes up with next.