Absolutely, if you want, you can DM me a document with the subs and I'll insert it! Tengo habilidades suficientes para insertarlo con el tempo apropiado. Muchas gracias!
I did enjoy this video. But I LOVED your first video about every error in season 8 because it showed that the ending MADE NO SENSE, it didn't feel like the ending they were building towards and I didn't get why they switched roles between Cersei and Daenerys. My guess is that they did it for subvert expectations.
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 Thanks for the kind words Sydni! And I think you're on to something. They seem to have been too focused on being unpredictable... I've got videos coming up on Every Error in S5-7 as well! Hope you'll enjoy those just as much!
Yea….I actually tried last week to rewatch the show from the beginning. I couldn’t get through the second episode, knowing where it was going the journey just doesn’t feel worth it anymore.
I binged watched GoT in less than a month and was upset and confused with how it ended can’t imagine how all the people who invested years into the show felt
@@CultureVultureMedia1 Didn't really make sense why Cersi had such a burning death grudge against Olenna though. That would only makes sense if she knew Olenna killed Joffrey, but at the time she didn't
Got another one for you. There was a point in season 1 where a Dothraki swung his sword at Jorah’s armor and it couldn’t pierce. That allowed Jorah to kill the Dothraki. Armor seemed to become paper after that
Oh, and before that scene there was a seemingly off-hand comment about how the Dothrakis' swords were good for calvary combat because of the way they were made but weren't ideal for piercing armor like the one used by most knights in Westeros. It was blended in so smoothly with what was just a casual conversation, but also not completely overlooked because the conversation was about weaponry and combat, so you were already listening to what they were saying and absorbing the details of the conversation naturally, so when the scene you're talking about happens you go "Ah, that's right, he said it doesn't pierce armor!". Absolutely amazing writing.
Whilst the point still stands overall, there were still a few moments in later seasons where armour works, like when a sparrow attacks zombie mountain and I think jorah also has his chest piece prevent a spear impaling him in season 5 in the fighting pits
The two worst things were Arya not being involved in Cersei's death and Jon/Bran not being involved in the Night King's death. Arya's entire storyline was learning to be an assassin to kill the people on her list, Cersei being the first person on it. Jon and Bran's entire storyline was learning how to and gathering the humans to try and beat the White Walkers. The fact that those storylines didn't get fulfilled is just bad storytelling and leaves the viewers saying "well then what was the point of all this?".
What about the biggest one opening season 8 where fans were waiting for him to react to him being Targaryen but in the end he walks north to Canada instead 😂
@queenb2450 I am with you. After all Sansa endured, she should have become the mad queen. She deserved the Cersi kill. Arya could have been an accomplice to satisfy her list maybe???
NK should've killed Jon in the final Battle for Westeros on a snowy Dornish shore. Dany died in childbirth at the tower of joy, giving birth to triplets one son (the prince that was promised), and 2 girls . Almost everyone, including all dragons are dead. The final stand is in Dorne, where they have to fight for time for a handfull to escape with the baby prince and princesses. During all that NK kills Jon... the ship sails away, just out of reach of the NK. There's a handfull of people on the ship: Arya, Tyrion, Davos, Brienne, Gendry, etc, with the baby prince and princesses, with 3 dire wulf pup keeping 3 dragon eggs warm. The night king walks in to the sea, kneels, puts both hands in the sea and the sea starts to freeze. AAAAAND FADE TO BLACK.. THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE END FOR GOT. The 'long night' the NK and the White Walkers should be a threat to ALL mankind, not just the people living north of Winterfell. You can make an entire new series about the battle for mankind on Essos. The young prince and princesses along side 3 new full grown dragons and 3 dire wolves as big as rhino's leading an army of the last men against the NK, white walkers and wights somewhere in a snowy Qarth,.
The thing that bugged me the most about the Night Kings death is not so much how it happened its when it happened. I haven't read the books but the impression i got from watching the show was that you have all these rulers fighting over the throne with the petty bickering and back stabbing. And while all this is going on the real threat to everyone is the mysterious Night King and the white walkers. But, by not having the Night King as the final boss of the show they’re basically saying...nah the show actually is just about fighting over the throne, the Night King and the white walkers was just some under developed side plot that was fairly easily resolved and was ultimately unnecessary the overall plot of the show. If I was to pick out one thing I hated most about the final season it would be this because it retroactively ruins your whole perception of the series right from scene 1 of the show.
Yeah, spot on. Everything got rushed after season 5 and ten years of build-up from literally the very first scene in episode 1 is wasted in the blink of an eye.
What's even more baffling is that the Night King is D&D's OC character. In the books they are just "The Others" or "The White Walkers". They have no defined leadership and are a total mystery. The show went to all these lengths with the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead....for literally no reason at all.
The NK was a quick-and-dirty way to end the story. With an ambigous threat, like in the books, it would have taken a decent chunk of seasons to end it, which D&D weren't perpared to do.
Yes exactly that was my main reason for hating the final season. Like the white walkers should've made it to kings landing like they foreshadowed, remember in season 7 finale it was snowing in kings landing but then it was beach weather in season 8. I believe Dan and Dave changed shit to be unpredictable.
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 and the very FIRST scene of the show is a white walker attack. With no payoff 8 seasons later. Remember those tales when Bran was on the bed about the Long Night? Turns out it was a literal long night. All that set up for nothing.
Imagine if we the audience thought that Arya is dead. And then later, Arya reappears as the waif at House Frey and only after all the Frey men drop like flies does Arya reveal herself and say, the North remembers!
They could have left the audience in the dark until this point, who the Waif really is. I'd also change the mechanism of how faces are worn. All faces belong to the same god. I wouldn't show if Arya kills the Waif or if the Waif is just Arya herself with a different face, killing herself, and thereby sacrificing herself to become one with the faceless god. After this point, she would be an incarnation of the god, having Waif's or Arya's face, by shape shifting. This would then explain her supernatural fighting skills, sharing all the knowledge and skills of all the other people who have sacrificed themselves. So after her sacrifice, Arya might not even know at first, when she "wears" Waif's face. She might be surprised that no one recognizes her until a big reveal.
Yeah they really effed up by not fully adapting A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons. They shouldn't have gotten ahead of Grrm but Dan and Dave thought they were smarter than Dan and Dave.
Same. I know how irrational it sounds but I feel so robbed of my time and energy despite the fact the series ended a long (subjectively speaking) time ago.
It was baffling…like they had a meeting and said “you know everything people like about the show …the lack of plot armor, the consistent smart characters, the putting of substance over style, the high level political intrigues, attention to detail, having spectacle only where it fits, etc. From now on…..just do the opposite of all those things. They’ll love it!”
It was a spectacular failure after everyone worked so hard to build the world, characters and plotlines to not be just another cliched tv show. It's like they didn't understand the while point.
It was because they never understood any of those characters. GRRM created them to make the reader think about their type or class, so they were subtly different from their archetypes. The writers never got that, because they think "themes are for eighth grade book reports". So rather than see Tyrion as a way to explore what disability means in a fantasy world that priotizes mighty warriors, or Brienne to see how the deck is stacked against women who want to be warriors, or Cersei as a way of investigating how did the Evil Queen become evil, they just went with the easy version. They see Ned loses, so they write him as a loser, they see Tyrion is cool & Brienne is a badass, so the write them as a stock cool dude & a strong badass who takes no crap. Tell me how Brienne is different from the female Marine in "Aliens" or any other stock exceptional female combatant, without mentioning physical traits or plotlines. They NEVER wrote the good versions of the characters, they wrote standard TV characters who matched up to a blurb of their superficial traits. This was merely concealed in the early seasons, because their flat cliched characters were forced to follow the path of GRRM's plot, which was driven by his deeper and more complex versions. As a result, we were fooled into thinking there was depth in the screen versions. The "butchery" was simply the characters move out of the narrow path Martin wrote, and suddenly they had to stand on their own and were unable to.
What they did to Tyrion's character is what really enraged me. Peter is an amazing actor and Tyrion despite being a dwarf with a mutilated face was my favorite character by far. He was funny, clever, and a good person in a sea of corruption. The show-runners turned him into a weak, scared, and basically unimportant member of their horrible last two seasons. Total idiots.
Tyrion is not an good Person in the books. He is troubled, has trauma and does some evil things. The series just sold him as a good guy, because that's much easier
@@DieEineMieze Please do not compare the German translation of both books and show to the original - the translation in both cases is cringeworthy! But you're not wrong, of course. Tyrion in the show isn't a truly good person either, neither is my fav, Varys. The show could have done a better job to show Tyrion's inner conflicts and questionable actions. But much of it comes trough in the horrifying dialogues in the first few seasons. And there are a lot of videos who discuss the problem you're seeing - how cutting material from the books robbed Tyrion's show character of depth and even credibility. Maybe these videos would be of interest to you, they often contain the name Tysha. I'm rather proud of the GoT following for not moving on, but keeping on discussing books and show. Maybe the main thing that fascinated me with this show, the way it motivated people, got them to communicate, share their creativity, damn well *talk* to each other no matter where they where from, this energy that came from so many minds working with the concepts and premisses of this show, is not all lost and wasted. It might even bring about an improved remake, that will again call the community together and this time, maybe use the generated energy for something of value. Lass mir Deine Katze grüssen!
The soy eating simps and red-haired h0es that "binge" shows were fascinated with the quote "I drink and I know things". They associated themselves with that, they see themselves as super intelligent and misunderstood while they drink themselves into misery.
Arya getting stabbed multiple times by Terminator. Then jumping into pee, water and shit. Totally surviving that, no problems! That was just ridiculous.
First time I was angry at the show was when Jaime didn't tell Tyrion about his wife's true feelings at the end of S4. But I started *hate watching* the show after Terminator Waif somehow missed any vital organs and Arya swam through raw shit muttering 'Tis but a scratch'
"The show died with Tywin" is the most accurate retrospective of the series I've heard. I don't know who said it originally, but after re-watching the seasons over, it's so true.
I think died is the wrong term, but it was absolutely the turning point as it was mostly downhill from there with a couple spikes in quality in Seasons 5 and 6.
The source material took a nosedive in quality around the same point too - end of book 3. Books 4 and 5 are mostly meaningless filler written because GRRM doesn't know how to continue the story. This is why we will never see book 6 or 7. What we have here is a great first act of the story - the first 3 books, and then nothing.
So inaccurate it is not even funny. Do I have to collate all the posts on the internet that were loving off and completely bumming the fuck out of this program right up until Season 8 episode 3 and 4? The objective proof is in the online posts of the fans which were 95% positive up until season 8. "The show died with Tywin" is the most bitter and moody thing I have heard so far about it. Have a look at yourselves from another perspective.
I will NEVER understand why HBO didn’t seek out new writers before S7. They were ready to write blank checks to these guys to write upwards of 10 seasons. Yet they caved after “successfully” getting them to NOT stop at 7 but go to… 8? All with shorter episodes? It’s genuinely hard to not feel robbed honestly. Imagine a world where we got 10-12 seasons with writers who wanted to be there.
this might be this world in the future. if the brand grows lager and the final books are written, there could be a complete "canon" rebot of the series. thinking of the partition now over 1,5 million people have signed, saying to rewrite season 8
The show fell off because they ran out of George RR Martin’s legitimately masterful writing to adapt. No writer they could have hired would have been able to maintain the level of quality from the first 4-5 seasons. It was always doomed to end badly when they started to diverge.
Cersei’s fortune told to her when she was a child said she would bear three children, gold will be their crowns and gold their shrouds. Meaning she will outlive her children. She was also told that she would be Queen till someone younger and more beautiful would take her place and when her tears were about to drown her, her (valonqar) would choke the life from her. Valonqar meant younger brother in the old tongue. Now this explains her psychotic over protection of her children. Her dislike of Margaery Tyrel who was younger and more beautiful. And her hatred of her younger brother Tyrion who was prophesied to kill her. Now when Cersei and Jamie were born Cersei was older by a few minutes so technically Jamie is her younger brother. It would of been better if he was the one to strangle her to death instead of have the two of them reconcile and die in some stupid suicidal embrace in a crumbling castle.
How about Arya strangles Ceirci with (shocking reveal)TWO hands, as she wears the face of Jamie (who died earlier, somehow)! Then ARYA gets buried in rubble, as a consequence of seeking her revenge. That would be cool
@@WanderingIdiot81 If you really want the shock reveal you have Bran warg into Hodor’s body and strangle Cersei with that man hammer between his legs. Then you find out the Hodor was just him trying to say Valonqar the whole time!!!
One thing that stuck out to me on rewatch is how EMPTY all the scenes are. Literally. When you think about throne room scenes, war table scenes, even just like, dinner scenes, there are just way less people in them in the later seasons and definitely a dearth of those people who just kind of exist in the story and pop up here and there without having much of an impact (like Kevin Lannister, Amory Lorch, Greatjohn umber, old Nan and Ser Roderick, etc etc).
I've seen it said multiple times but the way this series completely annihilated it's own cultural impact is astounding. No one talks about it at all. They're bringing out a prequel series and all I've seen so far from anyone is muted curiosity.
I think that must have to do with the fact that, despite the fanbase by and large realising that it was bad only well into season 8, it had been getting worse for 4 seasons (5 years) already, with only a minority being aware of the trend. During seasons 5 to 7 it kept getting bigger and bigger thanks to the enormous amounts of money that were poured into the CGI and in general the production, while failing to resonate on a deeper level because it had lost what built its initial success (the character evolution, the deaths of beloved characters etc). It was a Hollywood big-budget, low-content production with the good guys blowing up the bad guys and much filler in between; when it ended, its most memorable moments of the previous 5 years had been big battle scenes with huge special effects, which is actually bland since (courtesy of Disney) we are afloat in that sort of stuff anyway.
It's thesis worthy. Someone should do investigative research on what happened especially behind the scenes that lead to something so on top coming out so low
@Imperator Caesar Traianus Hadrianus Augustus same, there were a few years where I would just spend all my time on the ASOIAF wiki just inhaling every single bit of trivia. Now, nothing.
yeah butthe first episode was actually horrible....I was soo lae to GoT arty because I just watched first eisode when it came out and it was sooo feakin boring :D it took me years to watch the show finally and then I was also insulted with this horrible last 2 seasons :D
Game of Thrones died with Tywin Lannister. Season 5 episode 1 was when I first noticed something had changed. As soon as I heard Tyrion and Varys talking I actually went on the internet to see if the show had new writers or whatever. I was convinced some veterans stepped down and new writers stepped in because of how poor the dialogue was compared to seasons 1-4.
I was told ,read the Writers! Wanted out,to do other things?! Such as Starwars,etc. How you were going to tie up all the subplots,characters? In less but longer episodes?! TOO MUCH to cram into time slotted?! Remember DEADWOOD? Yeah?! Lefties us hanging,armed chinamen with Spencer Repeaters?! And the town ,up against Gerald McRanie, as outside BIG $, mining! Nothing?! He leaves Town?! End of Story?! You heard about movie to end Story. NOTHING?! Then I get text,8 yrs. Later, movie to end Story?! And ,2 characters ,actors,dead ?! One Powers Booth! Lucky rest were still around?! At least ending? How's about Showtime,killing off BORGIAS?!Not about Ratings, but it's too expensive?! To DO?! Main actor even said he'd take pay cut? With last season Script all Written, ready to go?! Fans went through Roof,so Showtime ,as a Sop,put Season Script online,So we could read it?! Boardwalk Empire?! Cable seems to not Want to Spend ,$?! And let's not forget ,good old GEORGE MARTIN,got pissed because everyone thought he'd Croak before finishing books?! Then pleaded Old Age because he couldn't keep up with writers?! It's All About $! Egos, Talent,Old Story! I told everybody they couldnt tie it up? I was Right?! And finally BIG ONE?! YOU WIN to be Queen of CINDERS?! No One to Rule,Pay Taxes?! Hitler in Bunker?! That's it!
Don't forget Stannis. His character was completely butchered in Season 5, show Stannis is nothing like book Stannis, in the books Stannis is my fav character and I'm still pissed how Dumb & Dumber massacred my king.
There Was a dip in quality in season 5 and 6 but it was still for the most part pretty good and still felt like game of thrones season 7 is where things went tits up
season 5: Hopefully next season will be better. season 6: You are tearing me apart! season 7: Look how they massacred my boy. season 8: Whatever. I just need to know how it ends.
🤣true...but look at HOTD. but in truth it's the viewership. no one watched so they had to cut short. It was just not possible. Everyone blames the two idiots instead it should be HBO who get the blame.
There was a level of botchery and laziness in season 8 that borders on malice. It's almost hard to believe they didn't intentionally try to butcher every character's story.
You couldn't be more wrong. This was always going to be the ending. You just couldn't see it because you wanted to see something else and that's the genius of it. The masses watched it, rooting for the wrong people. Not understanding the ending at all. A small percentage of those who watched, understood that Dany was Nazism repainted as a female so that people would have sympathy for her. George convinced FEMINISTS and LIBERALS to root for a female Hitler. It is an amazing prank and you all deserve what you got. I love the ending, it is essentially the story of Ragnarok, for all the warring, bickering, gameplaying, at the end of the day comes to naught. The cycle continues without you and your petty mortal squabbles. This was exactly the ending I predicted. Watching "fans" of the show get tricked, was hilarious. The masses watched it, but only a few understood it.
@@maxdamagusbroski crafting an ending for the masses to hate, on a show which the same masses adored, is malice. You just made my point in saying the directors deliberately pissed off the fans. The end result of each character isn't what's so detestable, it's how they got there. GoT's entire appeal was throrough and slow development. Season 8 completely mailed it in, like a lazy high school student who didn't want to finish the project and slapped something together just so they could claim they turned it in. It was lazy, because the rest of the seasons weren't They skipped over loads of story telling to get to the conclusion because they were tired of making the show. The directors all but said as much. You're either a sadist for reveling in others' displeasure or a pompous theater student who thinks you have some esoteric knowledge only those with elite delusions could appreciate.
I always thought it was apparent that Dany was going to be Lady Hitler when she watched her brother die with zero reaction, but I guess that’s just me.
I was amazed that so few people had issues with Season 5 when it aired. It was CLEARLY not on the same level, no longer sure-footed, with numerous questionable developments, especially with Stannis.
The hype back then was just too much and i was naive to fully believe in the show so even if i noticed flaws i just overlooked them. First thing that really threw me off was the Arya parkour shit after she was stabbed multible times but even then i still had faith. Only when season 7 came out i finaly had to stop beeing in denial about whats happening to the show.
Yea, idk what you're talking about. I clearly remember people being let down by season 5 due to the Dorne plotline being atrocious. I actually remember more criticism for season 5 than there was for season 6. Back when season 6 first aired people loved it, most people were saying "finally we get some pay off for the good guys!".
@@bostontowny4life744 Yeah some people did criticize the show i never said there wasnt any criticism at all. Even season 1 was already criticised by some book readers for cut characters and stuff. What i meant is that critics werent taken serious by most back than including me since that was seen as complaining on a high level and the show was still considered one of if not the greatest ever. So yeah MOST people didnt really care back than and were just super fucking hyped for more GoT to see what would happen next after 4 seasons of great worldbuilding and story buildup that looked like it would lead to a super epic and probably tragic and highly comlex conclusion.
20:07 "Peter Baelish, arguably the most intelligent character in the entire series, falls for a trick so transparent light accelerates through it" 😂 well done my dude, well done
Here’s the thing a lot of people forget: GRRM was strapped in for as many as 13 seasons. He laid out how many seasons he figured each book would take, and yet they moved way faster than they should’ve. They completely dropped plot lines that would bite them in the butt later in order to squeeze in time, and they ended up finishing all the books in the first 5 seasons. The flaws were there from pretty close to the beginning; people just didn’t see them.
On that note: it's June 2024 as I post this. Season 13 would have just dropped (assuming the same release windows). Still only five books released. Maybe if they had gone to 13 seasons, they could have bought some time for GRRM. At the same time, it seems like GRRM wouldn't make any progress anyway.
@@PassionFingers not necessarily. One of the things that GRRM mentioned is that he’s been busy with a lot of other projects since GOT ended, so it’s possible that if the show was still going, he’d have had more time. Regardless, 13 seasons would have given plenty of time to both give the remaining books the detail they needed and to space out events in the remaining seasons.
There's only 5 published books which took the show 6.5 seasons to film. Book 3 was split into 2 seasons b/c there's a lot of stuff that happens in book 3. GRRM was under contract to publish book 6 & 7 before the show needed the source material. He broke that contract. Why he broke it is another story. GRRM is the true reason for 2.5 seasons of fast tracking. D&D & HBO also had parts to play in how & why but it started with GRRM breaking his agreement.
I watched GOT for the first time last year, and I'm honestly glad that I waited until after it had all come out. Made the disappointing ending less painful because I didn't spend years of my life invested in it.
You know, that's probably one of the reasons for me. I mean, there are lots of reasons and this video was a great deep dive into those reasons but yea, YEARS of my life 🤣 YEARS!
Writers got lazy didn't want to really adapt the books and they are not the only ones(see the witcher) but not using the content to the maximum and trying to rush because you are offered other projects jsut to lose them too 😂
I thought Jamie Lannister had a really compelling story. He went from a character you despised to someone you grew to enjoy. Then they just walked back all of that progression to have him go back to his sister and die with her.
@@zitronentee Agreed! One of the scenes I thought of the most throughout the show was how they would play out the saga of Jamie and Cersei. I always thought that him coming into the world holding onto her foot was foreshadowing to how they might go out together...but not so anticlimacticly...under a pile of fucking rocks. Lame.
Basically once GRRM was no longer influencing things, the quality started dripping out. You didn’t notice it in season 5-6 that much, but once 7 rolled around you couldn’t help but notice how deflated it all was. By season 8, there was little more than a wet fart left in a once great show
@@KaitainCPS maybe it was noticeable in 5-6 but every show makes some bad writing decisions and bad writing wasn’t really being talked about as a core aspect of the show until later. By series 7-8 bad writing was basically expected and GOT started being seen as a show with bad writing not just a show with a few weird writing choices
The saddest part is we’ll never know George R Martin’s intended ending as he takes so fing long to finish a damn book he’ll be dead before it’s truly done.
I suspect the bastard has already finished the series, but we won't see it until he's dead and gone. Whatever he writes now will never live up to everyone's expectations, so it makes a lot of sense to me. No one can make his life hell if they don't like what he wrote, cam they?
@@ommadawn8434yes they can, they already make his life miserable with all the _Yu ouwme da booooocs_ demands and constant harassing. He doesnt owe you nothing, just because you like ASOIF doesnt mean he has a debt to you, especially if you are a glorified cyberbully
The worst part of S8 for me is the battle of Winterfell's strategy and how it was horribly planned. As if Dumb n Dumber didn't even bother to hire someone with a knowledge of how medieval battle strategy works.
Never mind the stupidity of the tactics, just the fact that threw away one of the dynamic story elements in a mass of off-screen deaths. After all the fanfare and struggle of getting the Dothraki there in the first place, they just...go away...without really doing anything. It's bad not just tactically, but also from a storytelling perspective.
The writers at the end of the day were spectacular editors and mediocre creators. Embellishing, cutting, and generally making the books translate into excellent tv was their forte but trying to create entire plots that could stand next to one of the best fantasy writers of the modern day was far outside of their capabilities
Hmm, not so sure about that. They were adapting source matériel and they did that well, Peter Jackson showed them how. However, it is obvious that source dried up once that ended they had no idea where to go, so they had a look at Twitter, saw what was trending and boom, Super Arya, Girl Power and fan service ... just like the rest of TV. This was somewhat foreshadowed by the way certain character's clothes would blow off at faint breeze. They were out to make money and once they had no map they did what TV does.
@@I_Don_t_want_a_handle it’s not super respected but good adaptation is a skill! Knowing what to cut and when to add is definitely something they excelled at, but in the later seasons they went from editors to creators and that’s a completely different skill set. I definitely agree that it feels like they were rushing to the end for the last few seasons and maybe that was due to $$ but it also may have been because they just didn’t like know how to handle the behemoth they were trying to pilot.
It's not even the fact that they weren't able to deliver but the fact they refused to resign from the project, they refused to give anybody else a try, and they even refused any additional episodes HBO would've given them to wrap things up in a satisfying way - they pitched for FEWER episodes than what they were offered. They chose to set the sinking ship on fire just so they could be done with it and move onto to-be-cancelled star wars project. I will never watch another thing from dumb and dumber, f those guys
The way Jaqen Hagar was misused in the end while being one of the coolest characters of the show was mind-boggling to me. Him having no role at the end was so awful. He deserve his own show
He might’ve trained Arià to kill the Night King without her knowing, that would explain why he let her leave without consequences. This could've been cool and tie Aria's plot in Braavos nicely. But nothing of that happened.
Jaqen doesn't appear in the books after Harrenhall. He replaces the "kindly old man" in the books in the House of Black and White because people liked Tom Wlaschiha
That houses whole thesis is being no one. With arya claiming her name and him being cool with it and killing the waif was just throwing that whole plot away. It was by this point and dorne I knew we were in trouble. And they threw the dorne plot away as well.
so is having bran fly the dragons north and getting one of them killed. It is so much better - gives Bran something to do and reinfoces his rivalry with NK - builds conflict between Dany and the Starks - makes a lot more sense then the whole Gendry running about thing... I know he said all those things, I just needed to reitterate it, cause I thought it was such a good idea!
From what I remember about the series, season 4 was the beginning of the end for me. There is such a shift in tone from the previous seasons. It felt more curated, less raw, and more Hollywood.
Yess I felt that shift as well. Tywin dying definitely brought a change in the overall tone of the series. A lot of people are ”blinded” by the terrible quality of the last two seasons but the show’s quality had been getting worse seasons prior to that.
I knew it was trouble when they announced that there was only gonna be two more seasons and they were only 7 & 6 episodes... but the moment the show actually died for me was when they went north of the wall - They're in an arctic environment, and they have time to send Gendry running back to the wall, to send a raven to Dani 1000 miles away on Dragonstone, and then have her fly up to the wall... all in the time it takes ice to freeze in the arctic. Having her just get a bad feeling or something silly like that, decide on her own to leave days before they're actually in trouble, and just happen to arrive at the right moment to save them, would have still been better than the crap they came up with. Also, honorable mention to ice zombies that we just established can't swim, 20 min later taking massive chains to the bottom of the lake to secure the dragon. And just where do ice zombies find massive dragon dragging chains in no man's land north of the wall??
😂😂😂 I was talking about this yesterday How did they think we would just let it pass? Is the raven going 1000km/h and the dragons as well??? Same with the chains, did it just spawned for the convenience of the plot? Apparently
That entire story arc was idiotic. They didn't need to send 7 main characters north of the wall to capture a single wight when the Night's Watch already had rangers on patrol who'd been encountering them much more often than usual...
I knew the show was in trouble after the first season. But I still enjoyed it to the end and now have to laugh at the fans who thought it was so greeeatttttt in the beginning and so terrrriibbllleee in the end. For the truth is there really was not much of a difference between the beginning and the end. The beginning had too much shock and sensation, and that ruined the point, purpose, plot and conclusion of the end. Game of thrones was always going to have a disappointing end, for it was set up to have one right from the beginning.
The Arya Wearing the Waifs face idea would have been awesome. Can you imagine the shock everyone has when the Waif comes back and says Arya is dead, just for her to take off the face after Jaqen leaves the room or something. People would have lost their shit and it would have justified the offscreen death.
The Arya being waif or whatever this guy says in the video is so bullshit..waif was not ordered by Jacquen to take Arya's life .it was her own wish..as she kept on commenting Jacquen against Arya..acting and killing as per your own selfish wish and desire was not what faceless men preached
I finally got round to watching it and yesterday halfway through season 5 I decided just to watch the recap for the rest of the show. Things were indeed starting to progress in a weird manner. I found myself asking “why” a lot. ‘Why is this character doing this?’ And there was no payoff. Knowing how people said it ended badly, I decided to save myself the trouble.
Yep, people rattle on about “the last two seasons ruining everything”, but the rot starts to set in within season five. There’s enough momentum built up for it still to be entertaining, but the logic is starting to disintegrate for the first time.
Thank you! I came here to say this! How does a dragon not see the damn armada of ships out in the open ocean. Worse than this to me was the moving ship firing a giant arrow hundreds of yards into the air and hitting a flying dragon. That would be a difficult shot with a modern rifle, much less a medieval giant arrow launcher. If dragons were that easy to take down, they would have never been the doomsday weapon they were shown to be.
hehe the entire writing from the beginning was lazy...the resurrection and killing of Jon Snow was lazy, so was the killing of Shireen and Verys. Too many senseless deaths, lead to a senseless and pointless conclusion. You can only have so many red weddings and resurrections before the entire thing come to look like a bit of a nonsensical joke in the end. I still enjoyed the series. But it was not as good as Lord of the Rings, but I disagree with fans who say the end was so much worse than the beginning. The end and the beginning was very similar, they were all apart of the same pointless plot and problem. Too much senseless killing for shock value without thinking about the consequences, and yes that was the case about the dragons too, but it was not just about the dragons.
Very literally, within the SAME EPISODE, they are war planning in the North and specifically discuss the Iron Fleet... the entirety of Seasons 7 and 8 are lazy.
I've thought about how they could have written a more plausible scene for killing one of the dragons. Maybe they sneak a ballista onto Dragonstone hidden under some vines under a tree, and leave out some goat carcasses, and then a hungry dragon goes "ooh, snack!" and before Dany can stop the dragon, it flies over and then gets headshotted by the ballista.
Even the scene where Olenna confesses to murdering Joffery is kinda bad when you realize that she didn't fulfill her promise to Littlefinger where if her house were to fall she'd have nothing to hide and bring him down too
@@LusciousTwinklewhy would that be a condition? It gives Littlefinger a reason to use his resources to protect her house, and prevents him using a proxy to try doing it since Olenna would be flicking his doomsday switch anyway.
@@InnuendoXP True.... But she was about to die. I doubt Olenna would be thinking about Littlefinger... She just wanted Jamie to know she'd killed his shitty son.
Just hearing GRRM talk about how this series could’ve gone on for 11 or 12 seasons just makes me so upset. The writers got lazy, plain and simple. Anyone who is an avid fan of the show/books could’ve written a better ending, let alone two people who read the books and wrote/produced the series for almost a decade. They didn’t want to do it anymore, they wanted to move on with their careers; the series and the fans be damned. They would have been cultural icons if they kept it going and did it right. Absolute tragedy on all counts.
the producers got lazy. they were offered the starwars gig and wanted GoT finished and out of the way. Daniel Brett Weiss and David Benioff. two useless twats who ruined one of the greatest series ever made.
Agree with the first comment: they became arrogant and entitled. If they just have given the torch to other writers and producers, things would have been very different. They could have had their liberty to do some other shits (Star Wars series and the Netflix deal), and their reputation intact. But no, they choose to do it all by themselves and ruin the whole main series. Fortunately, HOD did it so well and there's new interest in the ASOIAF world.
The idea of GRRM dying before finishing his magnum opus, therefore allowing D&D to effectively have the last word, should be THE motivation for George to finish his goddamn series finally. But, alas, its not likely. You're honestly content with THAT being the conclusion of your life's work, George?
@@KJ-xx6xr Yup. Sadly hes gone full Hollywood and realized its better to milk and existing franchise for all its worth with prequels and spin offs rather than give it a satisfying conclusion and risk killing his cash cow.
He doesn't owe you anything, and plenty of authors publish work right up until their death. Maybe if people like you didn't treat him like a villain when he's the one who started this whole universe you love he'd be more motivated.
I think he will likely go back on his previous word and leave some sort of notes with other authors with a plan to publish ... something ... posthumously. It will likely be clear that, yes, whatever it is will have been his true vision. Though, of course, there are always some fans who won't believe that.
@@jch010 Hardhome wasn't that great; it was prematurely showing the Night King to Jon. And BotB has a ridiculous ending ripped of from LotR. I loved the Sept of Baelor though,
Lucky me I read how bad s 7 and 8 was I never watched it . I am now reading the books and can tell you they are amazing . Even the best scenes from the show can’t compare to the seens from the book . I have been thinking about some chapters for days so good they are
I still find it amazing how this show crumbled. I agree with your analysis of how the show fell apart, but I was aware of it while watching. But I had so much invested that I had to keep watching. My wife gave up in season 5, calling it "stupid now", but I suffered through two more years of it. I finally quit in the middle of episode 3 of season 8. My doctor warned me my eyes might get stuck if I kept rolling them so often.
I stopped at the end of 4. After several years away, knowing the ending, I recently binged the rest for closure. Frustrating as it was, I still can't believe how badly it got after the third season.
I felt like I was taking crazy pills while watching season 5 because I complained about it constantly and everyone I knew who watched it was talking about how cool the previous episode was, that scene with the thing, or when character said line like there wasn't a glaringly obvious drop in quality
David and Dan, “tell the fans it’s was us; We wan’t them to know.” The most surprising death in the entire series is the show itself I know it was foreshadowed but when it actually happened it still took me by surprise still does. The faceless men Couldn’t have pulled off a Cleaner assassination of so many characters in such a short period of time.
@@JL-yq9xn that’s a fucking fantastic idea. Will Have himself begging the z”walk of shame”s. Starting at the supremes courta shame walk from the White House to all around the mall and the sights.
I love how the showrunners rushed the show to a terrible ending just to get a star wars gig only for that deal to be cancelled. I know it's just a show, but they did the fans very dirty and I hope this forever leaves a stain on their career.
The irony is that D & D seemingly rushed to finish this series because they had all kinds of things lined up. But, between how the series ended and Covid, all of their opportunities dried up. People try and argue that the ending, with Dany turning, is what got people so upset. But, in reality, it was the set up - or lack thereof. D & D looked at Game Of Thrones and thought that it was all about subverting expectations. But, that wasn't it at all. The art of what Martin did was to build the characters and story to the point where - even if you didn't like them at first - you would eventually start to like them just as he killed them off. The way D & D treated deaths was more like fan fic.
Well, the subversion of expectations works well only if you react with something like "OMG, how could I have missed this", or maybe if it's just ignoring out-of-universe expectations (like killing main characters, instead of reinforcing the plot armor). Subversion of expectation based on pulling stuff out of digestive tract is just lousy writing.
I feel like the fall really happened because they were doing what Hollywood always does... they stop crafting a compelling story driven by characters in favor of trying to force the story to support a series of more and more epic battle scenes.
I don't think I have ever seen something go from a world wide phenomenom to just... not a thing as quickly as GoT did. People just wanted to forget about it and it just died hard.
Yeah it's really crazy. No one talks about it now. It's as if it never happened. Even with shows like Dexter people will often recommend the show and say "it went to shit towards the end." But with Game of Thrones it's not even brought up, that's how badly the ending was ruined.
1-4 were mind-blowing. 5-6 were up and down, had interesting moments, but this is where filler started to crack through the show. 7 was mostly bad, but every now and then I found myself enjoying it. The only memory I have positively of season 8 was Jenny of Old stones.
@@SamanthaBoooooooo I think the characters sitting down and drinking and acting like characters before the pending doom was neat. Also the knighting of Brienne.
Yet...its still good. And somewhat forgivable. I understand they are rushing in season 7. But...season 8 is just...very very very very disappointing. The golden company is the best mercenary...and got roasted on the first deployment. The dragon got killed...by a balistae fired from a ship. Its as if the ship got invisibility cloak or something. And then next episode, the ships all got burned down by the other dragon. I mean, rush the episodes if u want, but please dont assume the viewers are stupid.
I don’t know how you guys could stomach seasons 5-8, much less enjoy them. Like he says in the video, the quality and dialogue started going downhill in season 4. By 5 the whole show seemed kind of pathetic to me.
After all these years, here we are still talking about this show. I watched it all twice. Like you, I was still riveted to seeing how great the first seasons were. What a deep shame how f**ked it got by the end, story wise. The visuals continued getting better. Great insight!
The change in season 5 was immediately noticeable to me. I couldn't ever quite put my finger on it, but the show absolutely felt different compared to seasons 1-4, all of my friends said I was crazy but I could never shake the feeling that the show had changed in some way, and not for the better.
Season 5 was when they started running out of book content and started making up their own story. The writers just started killing main characters (characters that are still alive in the books) for the shock value of doing so. Also remember that the HBO series left out a LOT ... a WHOLE LOT ... of content, so them rushing through book content was pointless. Aegon Targaryen ... is he a pretender or the real deal? Don't know, he isn't in the series (No, Jon Snow is NOT Aegon Targaryen). Catelyn Stark ... or lady Stoneheart, out hanging half of Westeros. Shireen Baratheon, will she take over if Stannis dies ?(yes IF, Stannis isnt dead in the books).
@@wvin1450 well what’s crazy is I’ve heard about this dorne plan in the books and it sounds so badass and cool yet in the show dorne totally sucks the sandsnakes suck it’s dumb and so forth but I don’t even want to read the books now cuz George WILL NEVER FINISH THEM
to me your story felt like it was you who changed and no one else. why do you think people who had been as dedicated to it as you were for the first 4 seasons were still enthralled with it after that? it just sounds to me you lost interest and just blamed the show for a reason you cant even explain.
I don't think so, among the people around me I was the one most dedicated to the show. I still watched it with significantly more anticipation for each episode release than any of my friends, regardless of the change in quality. There was a pretty big drop off in quality beginning with season 5, and if you want to be salty about it go ahead but it's literally a proven fact at this point lol. Not even to mention it was while the show was still coming out that I couldn't figure out why it wasn't as good, and all these years later if we want to get into it I can put into words why. I definitely changed in the year or longer between each season, but it was the show that obviously changed for the worse.
After the Night King's death, I remember people saying things like, "This is good. Now we can get back to the politics, which is what the show is really about!!" Except ... we never did. We never COULD in three episodes. The politics of the earlier seasons were a slow burn with satisfying payoffs along the path of plot and character development. This show was never supposed to be about fan service and call backs to lines some character said once before in a context that had no justifiable connection to the climax. With the time they had left, the Night King should have been a reckoning throughout all of Westeros, forcing the characters to realize that the pursuit of the throne was folly. The Night King should have come to within a hair of conquering the entire continent, until Jon Snow and a few of the remaining characters figured out a way to defeat him. In the aftermath, there shouldn't have been any kingdoms left. No throne. No power. Dwindling resources and a rag tag collection of famished and broken armies. In the end there would be a few survivors, lucky to be alive and left with the decision of how to rebuild a new world in a new reality.
I kept thinking there was going to be a "holy s**t" episode where the show reckons with the fact that 17 years of civil wars and massacres have made hundreds of thousands if not millions of corpses for the Night King to re-animate. It's kind of a Chekhov's Gun when you see the White Walkers can raise the dead, and then you see the Riverlands basically turned into one big graveyard over several seasons. I was sure it would factor into the story, because realistically once the North falls, the next kingdom down (the Riverlands) has been _by far_ the most devastated during the wars and has enough dead people to overwhelm the other five kingdoms.
@@CountArtha Great point. Even when characters were able to engineer what they THOUGHT at the time was a victory, there was always a consequence. Joffrey executing Ned Stark, Cersei turning the High Sparrow against Margaery, Robb capturing Jaime, Theon betraying Robb and taking Winterfell, The Night's Watch betraying Jon. In the early seasons of this show, nothing was just "happening". Every action led to something that would have to be dealt with down the line. Then seasons 7 and 8 happened, where Cersei faced ZERO consequences of blowing up the Sept. The faith was the primary religion of King's Landing and there was no revolt, no protest, no new Sept members plotting against her. And Jaime pushing Bran out of the window was just a hand wave with Bran saying it didn't matter?? And yes, if the Night King can raise ALL the dead, the consequence of hundred of wars should have come back to haunt Westeros. The Long Night literally lasting for a few hours was a disservice. In the aftermath, Westeros should have been completely reset. The fact that they were still left arguing and debating over who should sit on the throne WITHOUT any resolution to any of the prophecies and questions that the show set up from the beginning is bizarre at best.
The thing that bothers me the most is the fact that the night king was built up right from the beginninh episode 1 only to end that story in 1 episode with an terrible battle. It wouldve been so much better if that wouldve been the focus of season 8
It's interesting how badly it fell out of pop culture. At the end of season 7, it was still good enough that all of the actors could have spent the rest of their lives making bank on GOT conventions. You couldn't fill a high school gym with fans now. All of those characters and actors had their legacies erased in one season.
True, it's really unfair to the people who spend such a large part of their lives working on the show. I'm sure they're wiping their tears with montains of cash though.
well, it didnt help that some of them, to this day, still defend season 8 by saying the fans are just wrong about it. I love Peter Dinklage in this show, but... that's some major case of denial right there. I felt the most sorry for Kit Harrington really. From what I gather he had a seriously troubled time after GoT ended.
It definitely had a big fall out. I still love the show and always will. It was one of the best shows for the decade it ran and it felt like everyone was talking about. Yes I absolutely hated the last season and wish it went very different. It’s a shame that that big of a show just fizzled out and now no one talks about it.
I've written several book series under other names. Writing multi-book, multi-year series is a specific skill. It's not the same as writing a single title, or even a title and sequel. Particularly impossible if you're taking over someone else's world-build. And Jesus, GRRM can world-build. D&D are TV writers with no experience of writing story for 40 or 50 characters. The crash was inevitable. But kudos to Culture Vulture Media, I was starting to think I was the only one who became uneasy in Season #5. It was like air turbulence when you're in a jet. You feel it and most likely it'll be okay, but every now and then it's a warning.
Cheers, Michael! Yeah, it's just strange that they did so well at first. It's like they didn't learn anything from their own success. Wasn't it obvious what people enjoyed about the show? How do you go from attention to detail and integrity to Jaime and Brienne hooking up? I guess we'll never know...
I've always wondered why the producers adapting novels are always the villains in vids like this, while the novelist who quit writing novels gets a free pass? 🤔 The show started sucking when it ran out of source material.
Oh, yeah. It's just mind-blowing how GRRM created living breathing world with such extensive history and lore all by himself, and this world is totally believable. World history is believable. Freaking dragons are believable. Characters are alive, have their inner motivations and personalities. That's not the case with D&D, at all. "We thought viewers won't expect that and it looks cool" - that's basically their explanations of everything they did.
The disastrous ending of GOT has changed how I now view TV series. I no longer watch week-to-week TV shows. I wait till a series finishes then I'll either binge-watch OR read the ending to see how it's critiqued to see if a specific TV is worth viewing. I do agree that with your comments that GOT became dumb and dumber after Joffrey's death. At the end of this series, I was furious for wasting 8 years of my life and subscribing to HBO only to see a great show implode (in the middle) then sink into oblivion. It's too bad I didn't watch this video of yours NOW after GOT ended to find myself not interested. What a waste of the Knight King or Winter is Coming clichés. And finally, Jon's birth parents amounted to zilch!
The last series of GoT may well have damaged trust in telly beyond repair and brought about the twilight of the golden age of telly. I think people are gonna be a bit more picky what they watch from now on and won’t be so forgiving.
My family has been doing the same thing with books (not starting them until the series is over). The funny thing it started with the Song of Fire & Ice book series which are the basis of the Game of Thrones series. George RR Martin wrote the first book in the series in 1996, the 2nd & 3rd in three and two years between each. Then it took an additional five years for the 4th and again 6 years for the 5th. It's been 10 years since the last book At this point, don't expect to buy his next book.
Yes, this was the last show that I looked forward to watching and even made sure to watch. After that last season I haven't been excited for a new movie or show until the new Dune adaptation. Wokeism and fast demand media have ruined movies, tv shows, and Western comic books.
FWIW you can have faith in Succession and Barry for HBO shows. And Better Call Saul is coming into its final season and it's better than ever. Those shows know exactly where the plot is going already, and know when they will end. That's how you know a show will be good.
I love watching the actors talk about season 8. They all obviously were so disappointed by it as were the fans. The buildup of The White Walker's for absolutely nothing. The were so epic they could have had an entire season to themselves.
oh, they could have done so much with all seven kingdoms having to work together to defeat them over the course of a whole season, they had so much to work with,it’s truly disappointing
Absolutely. there was so much mystique surrounding them and so much more about them that could have been explored. Why did they want Bran? What do they even want? Whats the connection between them and the white Raven? The show did absolutely nothing with any of that.
HBO told D&D they could go up to 10 season, each of 10 episodes, but they wanted to cut short, because they were out of ideas, and wanted to start working on the Star Wars trilogy they had been promised.
Agreed that season 4 is when cracks started to show. The only thing that would make this analysis better would be an explanation. "The show ran out of book material" is both untrue (there is so much more in the books) and ignores the true point of failure: D&D themselves. Many people forget this but around the time of S4, there were plans for D&D to direct Star Wars movies for Disney. This is why everything in seasons 5-8 is so rushed. D&D wanted to finish GoT ASAP so they could sign on with Disney. The most ironic thing about this of course is that the destruction of GoT was so bad it convinced Disney to pull out of the deal with D&D. "Ran out of book material" is a convenient excuse used to cover up how terribly untalented D&D are.
yeah, they bailed, but dragging it on forever couldn't've fixed it. only george really knows where it was going, maybe lml, or greenhand or shiftaltx, but d&d, or really just d never knew. george bailed making a mind-blowing ending impossible
I agree that lack of material probably wasn't the issue. I suspect at some point, they disagreed with George (in his consulting role) on some plot points and wanted to go their own direction. George, made his points and stepped back from his role, and that's how we ended up with what we got.
I wouldnt call them "untalented". More like "untrustworthy". One could have all the talent in the world (as they seemed to have in the very beginning), but if they are unwilling to see a deal through with honesty and care, whats the point? They could have done great things with the show, but instead chose to intentionally tank it so they could leave sooner.
@@batzxxl And you would be kinda right, but more like they severely mislead GRRM and he stopped helping from what I understand. He left his old note, but never added any new ones
HBO was willing to throw money at D&D to have Seasons 7 and 8 with ten episodes a piece. But they rushed through it and shit the bed. I think it was a mix of them running out of detailed source material but also letting the success of the show get to their heads in terms of the shows direction. George gave them broad outlines of what will happen, but who knows how much specific detail was included.
The thing that bothers me apart from the whole last 4 seasons is that Dan and David a.k.a (Dumb and Dumber) knew Bran stark would be king in the end but still didn't include him in 1 full season and then made him a side show without any character development anx then suddenly he's the king.... And why bcz Tyrion said he can tell stories.. Wtf....
The thing that bothers me is that people still use that idiotic insult (dumb and dumber) to refer to the two producers years after the "joke" weared off.
I expect Tyrion to be King in the books. I expect Bran to ride off with Arya and sail West in the end. Why? Because this story is a retelling of the Wars of the Roses, Lord of the Rings and Cleopatra. Bran is Frodo (and the Ring). Bran is also the prince in the tower in the wars of the roses. the "magic" has to leave westeros. the age of man is the end of the story. Like Frodo leaving the Shire on the last boat out of Middle Earth. The wars of the Roses end with Henry VII (Tyrion) marrying Elizabeth of York (Sansa) and creating modern England. The unification of Lancaster and York bring England out of the Middle Ages and into the modern. The red hair of the British Royals traces straight back to the red hair of Elizabeth of York (Sansa). Unless George Martin was intending to provide a different ending to the Wars of the Roses and the LOTR, this is how it would end. The Cleopatra story line of dany ended similar to history. Conquer then die and the family dies and the Greek period turns to Roman. So, I expect George's story to follow the wars of the roses and the lord of the rings. This also makes more sense with Arya's story line. Every Stark became their wolf. Arya needs to become the Gollum (Schizophrenic who steals the ring (Frodo) and the Nymeria who takes the last of her people across the ocean. George stopped promoting and cooperating with Dan and Dave after season 4. This is not well known, but until s4, the author was promoting and working with D and D. Until S4 George was writing episodes and providing direction. S5, there was a complete schism. GRR Martin had no role to play in S5-8. He was cut out out. D and D had the rights and they decided they did not need the author anymore. This led to bad storytelling, unsure ending, lack of dialogue, etc. D and D were convinced it was them that made the show. It was actually George. The greatest literature to film ever done, began to unwind itself in S5 because D and D no longer knew where to take the story. (especially because the books were not complete)
I know hindsight is 20/20 but your alternative ideas for how Games of Thrones should have been written after Season 5 are awesome. Would love to see your ideas on screen someday. Nice work!
Thank you! Finally someone who acknowledges that season 5 was the start of the downfall. I knew something was off when the show writers trashed one of my favorite villain creations by G.R.R.M.: Littlefinger. This guy orchestrated so many of the big maneuvers in seasons 1 to 4, the epitome of an evil genius, then suddenly became a lame duck. I was so looking forward to Littlefinger being taken out by the Starks in epic fashion, but instead he went out with a whimper because his character had already been neutered.
Exactly my feelings. Littlefinger was the mastermind in the background the only one who was able to play in his league follows with his own plan centered around Daenerys. His end was ridic and when i watched it the 1st time i knew that the writers simple hadnt a clue how to solve this character correct so they decided to simply cut this line in the story. As they did with so many other characters in the later seasons...
This. I would like to add that not only D&D weren’t in the slightest able to write Varys and Littlefinger, but also they didn’t know what to do of Tyrion and arguably Arya anymore after S4, apart from turning them into sidekicks to Daenerys (to whom they also gave every possible resource and plot armour imaginable, only to make her squander much of it in S7)
Littlefinger could only die with a whimper because he is physically weak, in comparison. His death would always be an embarrassment in a world of warriors. They could have had his world fall apart, his power diminished and his person banished in shame, only for him to plot his return. His death at the hands of a warrior would always be a lame one, though.
Do you think Charles Dance had the credentials and balls to call out D&D if he didn’t like the way a scene was written, in a way that the rest of the cast may have struggled to ?
Definitely agree. Charles Dance’s presence on screen was remarkable and really made you understand why people were afraid of him. But it was always more than just inciting fear. His purpose was his legacy and every move he made made sense
When this show was running, I used to rewatch the previous seasons as a refresher and, over the years, I definitely noticed a lapse in quality that begins in season 4 and just gets progressively worse as time goes on. The showrunners running out of material to adapt was definitely a factor in the decline, as was their apparent lack of interest in the project later down the line. There's the quote from Martin about how many more seasons could have been made, but I also remember hearing that HBO were trying to throw crazy money at Benioff and Weiss to keep the show going, and how the pair kept turning down HBOs offers because they thought they were going to get a Star Wars movie. You can tell that Benioff and Weiss were out of their league when it came to writing, which is unsurprising considering that the show was Weiss' first project to get picked up, and Benioff's most notable credits before the show were Troy (an excellent film _in spite_ of its bad writing) and X-Men Origins: Wolverine (an absolute shitshow of a movie). They started with excellent material to adapt, and did an OK job with it, and by the time they ran out of material the show was already a pop-culture phenomenon maintained by it's own inertia. IMO, HBO should _probably_ have replaced them with more talented writers after Season 5 at the latest, probably Season 4 if I were to be brutally honest. But, like the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", and HBO were making big bank off the show despite the showrunners being on the wrong side of mediocre.
They should have had Martin choose new writers and have him consult them, or just end the show at season 5. Or perhaps the show should have aired a decade or more later than it did, could you imagine..........
@@asclepius.dionysus a decade later? It's been more than a decade later and TWOW isn't close to anywhere done while ADOS will never come out before grrm kicks the bucket. Nothing would have changed
@@asclepius.dionysus end the show at 5 would have been fine. We would all be saying I can't wait for Martin to finish his books so they can turn it into more seasons. None of the huge problems, dumb endings and all this build up for pretty much no reason. As it is, they listened to the fans incredible response by the numbers watching, listened to the bank a count going higher so in their minds, us giving them something is better than nothing. As it turns out no, we'd all been happier with a shorter series but 100 times more satisfying and lots of room to grow in any direction Martin wants.
On my second watch through. Some searches for lore related stuff (As i haven't got round to reading the books) led to this video. I am currently on Season three with the girlfriend. Enjoying them so Much the dread I began to feel watching the show dip in qualdity has started to crop up early. Ah, different times. I remember thinking the first time "You know what they've had such a good four seasons, a crappy season was inevitable. I'm sure they'll turn this around." A classic example of the "Too big to fail" mind set.
I started a rewatch recently and I agree season 5 is where I started saying "Wait that's dumb" far too often. It's amazing how much better season 5 and 6 felt when you still assumed the show-runners knew what they were doing, so you kept giving them the benefit of the doubt.
I agree with every single thing you said. I enjoyed seasons 5 and 6 even with huge cracks forming, but season 7 ruined it for me. The scene where Jon tries to give long claw to jorah particularly stood out to me as so poorly misplaced. That convo should have happened on the ship to east watch, not beyond the wall. And going beyond the wall was the stupidest thing ever. in season 3, them doing that would have gotten all of them killed, in season 7, thoros dies, and thats it. Soo God damn dumb
@@CultureVultureMedia1 it's the little things they did that were just so dumb and it snowballed. The whole going beyond the wall in s7 could have been done without it being stupid. I thought of a way to get the NK a Dragon without "Trying to capture a white for cerci. If bran doesn't get to the wall in s7 ep 1, and is stuck beyond the wall and is able to get word jon or winterfell with a raven he can warg into, then it gives jon a reason to go their, he could get daeni to help with the dragons and the nk can take it down. they could grab a white that was chasing bran while there and have proof. It's not the best idea but it's better than a kidnapping to show cerci . I'm getting heated again about it hahha. Still not over it
D&D: You know, since we have this character that can resurrect people, the show has a lot less tension since any of our main characters can just be brought back to life if they die. Oh I know, let's just have something really stupid happen to remove him from the show so we don't have that problem.
@@jonathansnow8222 Maybe Bran could have just warged into a goddamn dragon and snagged a wight and dumped it through Cersei's window if it's so damn important to prove the wights are real, haha!
My biggest gripe was that throughout the whole show the overarching villain appeared to be the night king. But then the show went the cliched route of living long enough to be the villain with Daenerys going power happy on the throne. Not a bad concept, but the fact they totally went through the white walkers in an episode really did a disservice and made it feel so underwhelming especially with all that buildup
Well to be fair book dany is already showing signs of mental instability. She is her father’s child. And the chaos and destruction she left in essos shouldn’t be discounted. She is a villain. She brought a foreign horde to pillage and destroy vast swarths of Westeros
@@robmlisanti*sigh* we are not payed to write scripts. Its not our profession, its not our jobs. Its the script writers job. When they are doing a shitty job, then we can point it out. But its not our duty to do their jobs for them. Please learn this simple difference before you speak. If you order food and you get a cold meal thats supposed to be hot, then you dont walk out into the kitchen and start cooking the meals for them. You complain so they can fix it
"the only problem with the series at this point is how no one can be bothered to wear a damn hat even though its freezing balls outside." abahahaha that made laugh
The biggest tragedy of the show was the way they basically wrapped up seasons of hard work and build up for Stannis and basically his whole demise lasts 30 mins and he’s killed off with not even a proper on screen battle 😭
One thing that really helped the early seasons is that back then, every faction had at least one somewhat "good" character that I really liked. So it was hard to root for one side to win, because any victory from one faction would mean the death of a character from another that I really didn't want to die. But in the later seasons, the factions fell into the more traditional roles of "good guys" and "bad guys", so there was clearly one side you were supposed to root for.
I agree except for characters like Tyrion, in the beginning he was more true to his book character but all the way in season 2 they kinda whitewashed him (not the racist definition of term btw) same with Cersei tho at least she was still “bad” they actually made Tyrion a “good guy” while he is not so in the books. It was a good direction initially however it came to a screeching halt when season 5 came around and the couldn’t adapt to their own writing and ended up creating almost an entirely different Tyrion……. A second time.
@@thefisherman0074 Tyrion was pretty much a good guy from the start of the series. Can you think of any evil or seriously immoral act he committed in the early seasons? I can't.
It is so refreshing to know someone else also sees Shereen's sacrifice as the price for Jon Snow. I've been saying this for ages! Melisandre even SAYS her sacrifice is about melting SNOW
Shereen and Verys death for me was pointless and should not have been done so senselessness. Just like I think it was to kill Jon Snow and then resurrect him later, or have Melisandre act as someone with real power, and yet make the power serve so little as a purpose. I like the serie both in the beginning and the end, but I think the series had a bit too much senseless pointless violence, killing and nudity just for shock value, at the expense of the story, plot, purpose and a satisfying ending. So a very good series, but it was never great for me. I don't think it was necessary to kill Shereen, Verys or Jon Snow...for me this was overkill!
@@musicisfree91 Death is one thing, resurrection another entirely. But Game of Thrones will never be the best for me. It was a brilliant series which had a lot of things it did better than almost anything else, but there was also decisions made in Game of Thrones that I absolutely hated. The death and resurrection of Jon Snow was one of them. For both the killing of him and resurrection of him made no sense whatsoever, even for a fantasy series. I don't mind realistic shock effects, but I do mind it when the shock effects are so ridiculous that it seems to defy every law, logic, moral or reason in the universe.
Makes you realize what a masterful writer GRRM is when you see how it suddenly stopped being good when they ran out of books, I've been listening to the audiobooks for months and it's like a healing balsam after what happened to the show, I can highly recommend it.
Have you read his last few books? They are god awful, Martin wrote himself into a corner and gave up but didn’t have the decency to inform the show-runners or the fans. Blame the old fat bald asshole, not the show-runners that suddenly had to fill in the massive gaps themselves.
Yeah, we can't call ourselves true fans unless we read or listen to the audiobooks 📖Since GRRM was out of the loop after Season 4, whatever D&D did on their own past that point isn't considered canon 🤦♂
@@SSGoatanks You know what really confuses me? GRRM's involvement in House of the Dragon. He signed off on everything, which technically makes it canon, but it still has less to offer than GoT ever did at its lowest.
While I fully agree the first 3 books were brilliant, In all fairness book 4 started to meander, and book 5 was a hot mess with a lot of meaningless subplots that go nowhere.
Brienne waltzing onto a battlefield, killing Stannis without anyone ever noticing was one of the absolute low spots for me. Another was the amazing battleplan at the battle against the dead at winterfell. First the dothraki ride out to meet the dead in open battle (after which the dead king could lift his arms and raise a while army of undead dothraki - but he luckily forgot to do so). Then they place their own army in front of the ditches meaning they will have choke points trying to retreat to the walls. They then decide to hide their civilians in the crypts (full of dead people) for some reason. At which point the castle is overrun, the dead swarm around inside, Arya kills the night king and every single main character then steps forwards, sayung something like: "phew! that was close".
The whole point of castles is to be able to defend FROM them. Not stand out side of them. The should have had the siege and archers with dragon glass on the walls with rings of fire all around. Used the dragons to burn the wights. What were the Dothraki even doing there without dragon glass weapons? How did they know Mel was gonna turn up and use magic to light their weapons? And for what? So they could run into the darkness to die. The problems are endless.
That battle scene broke me. First they're fighting at night when they could just hide in the castle and wait for daylight, then they send their cavalry in a suicide charge against an enemy in a terrain they could not see then their artillery was in front of their fortifications instead of behind them. And to top it off they sent the most vulnerable to hide in a cypt from an enemy who can raise the dead. Genious level writing my friends.
@@RafaelSantos-pi8py Yeah, it's like Stannis the best battle commander of Westeros leading his disorganized army to an open field where his enemy can see him clearly without sending scouts to check if an ambush is waiting for them.
@@harrymills2770 I thought the same about the faceless man, but after being thoroughly disappointed, I changed things (in my head) that instead of dying, he'd have fought back in a very non-Littlefinger manner and escaped. Everyone would have been confused as hell ... except Arya. Later they meet up, have a fight, and the faceless man reveals before dying that it isn't over.
With accuracy on the level of a sniper using a scoped 50 cal Barrett. The truth about the dragons is that the only opportunity you had to kill one was when it was either on the ground or standing still in the air. And if it was standing still in the air, it was a split second away from unleashing fire.
@@ba55bar Yeap. One in a billion shot from a weapon with an effective range of a few hundred yards. In the US Navy we had inflatables we used for target practice in open water. We called them "Giant Tomatoes" because of their size and color. You would be amazed how often you miss something that is barely bobbing in the water using modern rifle sights.
You have precisely articulateed how I felt about it as it aired back then. I want to rewatch it with my children now that they've grown up but I know how bad it all gets and they're already, "meh" about even trying. Man, when it was good, it was outstanding.
The idea of Arya getting out of the faceless men by wearing the waif's face was brilliant, I wish the writers had accepted submissions like they did for Star Trek TNG. Most fan submissions were bad, but there were still quite a few brilliant gems like this.
It would've been great. We see the candle go out, hear a grunt, then the Waif walks back in, tells Jaqen Arya is dead, walks out...then, on the streets of Bravos, Arya peels the Waif's face off. Great little twist.
@@0xmoo It cuts out a massive plothole - Jaqen makes it quite clear you Do Not Cheat The Many-Faced God, and Arya does it multiple times. And Jaqen just lets it slide. Then, if they meet up later like they do at the end of the series, Jaqen realises a girl has truly become no one...not even he noticed.
The crazy Dany part to me was everyone acting like she was this monster who shouldn't rule because she killed the tarleys and some slavers. When cersei literally blew up a church with entire houses in it, and small folks near by. I just didn't see the major difference between her violence and everyone else's. What because she had a dragon do it. Walder Frey killed everyone at a wedding. Everyone seemed to be extremely violent so why was she being judged so harshly by tyrion and varys?
People act like Dany is a monster because they're hypocrites. How is Dany executing the Tarleys- after giving them the choice to surrender and accept her rule and them flat out saying they'd never bend the knee to her, the rightful heir to the throne (as far as anyone knew)- any worse than Ned executing a man for trying to flee the White Walkers? Or worse than Rob executing Rickard Karstark after he killed Lanister hostages? Or Theon murdering two innocent peasant boys (one of which may have been his own bastard son?) Or Jon hanging a literal child? Jaime is still seen as "honorable" after leading an ambush and helping massacre the Northmen in King's Landing, but Dany kills some slave owners (in retaliation for them killing slave children to mock her- that wasn't something that just popped into her head at random) and suddenly everyone's talking about Targareyn madness. Why's it only madness when a woman's doing it?
@@Silburific Also what's worse about that is the Tarly's were literal TARGARYEN loyalists so all that section does is point out the stupidity of the writing. Furthermore it is exactly what you said. If we want to nitpick what "madness" means in the GoT world then you could make a case for everyone and the biggest criminal of them all is Arya but " the north remembers!" so its fine when she bakes humans into pies as an act of mere revenge whilst Daenerys acts out of compassion for literal slaves but all of a sudden everyone has a problem with it. If Arya had any other house tied to her name then she would be questioned about her motives but because the starks are so protected from this joke plot armour writing no one bats an eyelid.
@@Silburific You took the words out my mouth, what made it even more annoying is tyrion trying to save cersei after she murdered so many people and tried to have him killed multiple times. Yet arguing for Jon to kill Dany for basically the same reason. Honestly if they didn't have her murder the people of kings landing they would have zero evidence to support the argument. Which is annoying because that scene make absolutely no sense. They should have had her rule and show the people rejecting her first then have the people find out about Jon and start wanting him as king then make her go mad. Like add anything just make it make sense
The reason she’s judged harshly is because she preaches righteousness, the breaking of the wheel, and a new world, while in practice, she just does the same things like any other westeros ruler, only worse, since in a matter of seconds she can take out legions of people. Cersei meanwhile doesn’t preach shit. Everyone who knows Cersei knows her to be a crazy bitch. That’s why it’s always so disappointing with Dany. That’s the difference.
On re-watch, I observed for myself the cracks forming in Season 4. By far, it was the last truly great season of GoT. Yet, the divergence from the source material began here. The split over the truth about Tysha when Jamie rescues Tyrion, the complete abandonment of the Brothers Without Banners/Stoneheart plot, them switching out Daario with somebody who looks and sounds nothing like him, the dropping of numerous Meereen characters, having Jamie at the Purple Wedding and making a rape scene with Cersei at the Sept of Baelor... So, the roots for some major changes in the story began there. Season 5 was a bad season (with oddly Hardhome being one of the best episodes in the series). They invented a whole different Dorne plot because they intended to abandon the Young Griff storyline, Brienne's quest was all messed up because there were no Brave Companions, Arya's plot was pretty nonsensical, the Brotherhood Without Banners was forgotten, almost the entire Northern Plot was re-written, Meereen was watered-down, they murdered Barristan Selmy to give Tyrion more to do later... They killed the Dorne plot which had excellent characters along with most of Jamie's redemption arc in ADWD. AFFC and ADWD are good books. I enjoyed them, as they kind of "cooled" things down from the intensity coming off of ASOS. Characters developed in ways the show never did. Brienne's mourning over Dick Crabb is one of the saddest moments in ASOIAF for me... "I'm sorry I didn't trust you. I've forgotten how to do that." Her real development as a character was on her quest. They ditched the entire Vale plotline with Sansa and just made an entirely new and non-sensical one. GoT for many years was the best show on television. It could have ended in a way that made it a masterpiece. Now? I can't watch it after Season 4 anymore. I have never seen a fandom die so quickly.
agreed. also i just wonder why the faegon plot wasn't adapted? would it have been that hard to introduce 2 new characters so the donnish plot can at least make sense? it would even give varys and tyrion something to do.
You forgot the pointless sideplot with Asha trying to rescue Theon, armored Ironborn being fought off by naked dual-dagger Ramsay. A real S7-8 moment, except it happened all the way back in season 4.
Everything you say i agree with. I never thought a tv show could betray me so personally. I started reading all the books after season 1 so i was definitely invested in this story. What an absolute shame it fell apart
I don't get it. What was the point of practically giving the Night King a dragon and nearly killing Jon Snow just to bring Cersei this zombie-skeleton so that she would help them fight the Night King if they easily defeated him without her. When i first watched the episode i was 100% sure that the would loose because of Cersei and would have had to run to King's Landing to defeat Night King there with Cersei's help or something like that. And why did Daenerys decide to make an alliance with Cersei if she could have easily killed her and her people with not 1 but 3 dragons. The would have been no need to kill the armies and innocent people, she could have gotten them all to fight on her side. This way the Night King wouldn't even have crossed the wall, because he wouldn't have had the dragon and Daenerys would have defeated him much easier and with a lesser cost.
Exactly thats why I hated what they did to Daenerys character because she had a chance to take cersei out when she first got to westeros but decided to take her army to high garden and fight the lannisters there because it was away from the innocents and then they had her go beyond the wall to save Jon, post phone her quest for the throne and make that alliance with cersei because defeating the dead was more important at the moment but then they threw that away when they defeated the night king without cerseis help and then Daenerys army multiplied and destroyed cerseis army so what was the point of season 7?
It just seems it was all meant to finally break Daenerys so they could have her fit the “Mad Queen” narrative. Daenerys and her dragons shouldn’t have been able to cross the Wall to begin with as the same warding magic that stopped the wights should have stopped them as well.When Queen Alyssane tried to fly her dragon beyond the Wall in “Fire & Blood”, it absolutely would not cross that Wall no matter how many times she tried. They took a lot of liberties that later created more questions.
@@blion2225 The tactical blunders pissed me off the most. Sending in the cavalry first, have the army outside the walls, trebuchets at the front only to fire 1 or 2 shots, not enough pyres placed to light the battlefield, no scouting of the enemy, bringing the civilians to the crypts and so on.
@@origami83 At times it seemed they were just trying to get people talking about it, even negatively. A UA-cam comments & likes approach. As long as it drew in the advertisers, why should they even care?
Actually, that was one of the most realistic things they did in that series. Westeros was mediaeval, which means no floodlights! There was a reason battles weren't usually fought at night in ancient times - the soldiers needed to see. I doubt that that was a problem for the White Walkers though, so it made sense for them to attack at night.
Finally a video where they actually talk about when GoT got bad. Everyone else just try’s saying seasons 7-8 are the only ones like they’re trying to cope. After season 4 GoT becomes unwatchable and doesn’t even feel like GoT
I think it is HBO's fault also to a considerbale degree. When D&D were trying to rush up, they should have protested. They should have let them leave and brought in new talented writers to continue and finish the series gradually and properly.
You would still be waiting for season 7 right now if they had have waited ...... the source material doesn't exist. It is not their fault, they tried. Blame HBO and blame GRR martin.
@@derp-aderg4684 Storm of Swords was adapted in 2 SEASONS and the nex two books in just ONE. Season 8 should have been the last Book-based season (and season 9 could have had WOW stuff)
@@derp-aderg4684 After season 6, D&D announced that they will finish off the series in 2 seasons, specifically 13 episodes, 13 episodes!!!!! This should have made HBO sprung into action questioning D&D. It was well known that the series had so much left to cover that it cannot be completed in just 13 episodes properly. HBO should have asked D&D to either increase the length of the show or leave. After all, GOT was HBO's greatest show. You don't utilise your greatest asset so ineffectively.
@@derp-aderg4684 There were a bunch of stuff they didn’t adapt from the books, if they were so starved for book material why cut all that? Don’t blame George for d&d being incompetent and lazy.
Daenerys burning the Tarly's and her other enemies didn't mean she was getting mad D&D. If that's what it meant I guess Aegon I was mad when he was conquering the seven kingdoms
She also gave them a choice. Tywin murdered children in the sacking of kings landing but everyone thinks he’s awesome. She burns a prisoner of war. A man who already betrayed his lord when he turned on the Tyrell’s.
@@johnivory3245 exactly and also in the "inside the episode" to season 7 episode 5, Dan and Dave said that her decision didn't make her the anything like her father. So I don't believe they always planned on her going mad queen because Dan and Dave have said multiple times in their inside the episode clips even in later seasons 6 and 7 that she was better than cersei and that she wasn't a mad Targaryen. They did that to subvert expectations
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 Yep absolutely. From their own words they said she “isn’t her father”and she “isn’t the mad queen”. Guess they “kinda forgot” about that.
People seem to forget Tywin drowned 300 men, women, and children inside their own castle and then wrote a song about it. You know iconic Reynes of Castemere.
As a huge fan of the books, I was delighted by the first several seasons, and even managed to convince myself to enjoy seasons six and seven. _However,_ the first time I recall getting worried happened quite early: _Dorne._ The moment I saw Sunspear labelled "Dorne" in the title sequence, a part of me knew the writing was on the wall (it was like labelling Winterfell "The North"). I'd argue the show's abysmal mishandling of Dorne and House Martell was the first truly _unforgivable_ fuck up. They were so worried about making the show too complicated, that they overcorrected by simplifying the Dorne arc to the point of absurdity. The absence of Arianne Martel was a mistake. The absence of Darkstar was a mistake. Leaving out the twist revelation that Doran's apparent laziness was actually a calculated, patient plan for vengeance... was a mistake. And last but not least, the juvenile, asinine, _insipid_ reinvention of Oberyn's warrior daughters as vapid brats too proud of their own tits was an _offensive_ mistake.
Absolutely agree with this. The Dorne plot is my favourite part of the books. Reading the books you get such a strong introduction to House Martell with The Red Viper and you get invested even more after his defeat. Doran's Game is a fantastic long running plot even if he doesn't quite get to Xanatos gambit levels of planning. Arriane not being cast was a huge warning sign and as the show goes on it all goes sideways...Areo Hotah arguably the best fighter in Westeros after the death of Ser Barristan Selmy get's taken down by a teeny knife? If I ever do find enough of a care to read the last books it will be because I want to see the Dorne plot resolved well. Even if the plans all end in being burnt by Dragonfire just like Quentyn did, It would be far better than what the show gave us.
For me it was great, almost perfect, until the Red Wedding, hit and miss after. That is until it totally went to shit in S7. The S4 ending was bungled so badly that I lost interest. The show didn't include the full Tysha story, yet still had Tyrion kill Tywin, which made no sense without the Tysha reveal. I knew right then that any and all competent writers were gone from the show. Wihout the motivvation for the violent act included, Tyrion just looked like a psychopath. This is like 6th grade comp, and it was embarrassing to watch.
And I thought it was only me...I remember eagerly waiting for Dorne and the utter deception I felt with the first look at the Sand Snakes. Everything went downhill from there to me.
I'm so glad you include season 5 in the downfall. So many people still have the rose colored glasses and include 5 as part of the peak but I was so disappointed in 5 as it was happening. After season 7 and Littlefingers nothing death I was done after numerous just bad everything. I refused to watch the 8th season and have only experienced it in reviews and rants. I'm clearly not missing anything of value though.
The first crack in the facade is the pointless mission that Yara took to rescue Theon. It made sense that she would literally sail all the way around Westeros just to turn back when Ramsey set some dogs on her.
@@happytoastfudgeBest possible answer. Vengeance is NOT the same as justice. He got vengeance, a little bit of justice, and enjoyed neither because of hubris. Hubris should have no place next to an actual desire for justice.
The most jarring thing for me while I was watching it for the first time was how people started teleporting everywhere in the last couple seasons. It felt like the show was in fast forward. There's of course a lot of other problems that were mentioned in the video, but that's what I remember most.
I think Littlefinger basically teleported across half of Westeros in one episode ... twice. Maybe Jamie should have learned that trick so he wouldn't spend all of Season 3 getting to King's Landing.
Podrick running to the Wall, somehow sending a raven to Dragon Stone, and Daenerys flying to rescue Jon and company. What should have taken at the very least several days (and everyone dying of cold/wights) took a couple of hours?
Bran being made king was a big disappointment. Also there seemed to be too many over the top death scenes with prominent characters suddenly killed off. Jaime for e.g running back to Cerscie only to die with her was another let down , and the second dragon getting killed off so easily...and on it went ..
He's based on Bran the Blessed, the basis for the Fisher-King of Arthurian legend, a Wounded King who rules over a ruined land. Him ending up as the king in the end seems like something planned from the start.
I’m still in denial with how the show ended. It’s been a while but the pain never goes away. I hate how they handled Daenerys, John, Tyrion, Varys etc… They changed everybody’s character for no reason at all. Cersei should have died suffering! It’s just so many things lol. But I’m working on letting it go by not watching anymore hbo series. They are terrible at finales. Just watched the sopranos during the pandemic and I was enjoying it but the way it ended made no sense
That's a great comment about being in denial over the ending. Yes!! Thank you! I hadn't consciously recognised it in myself. Like with 'Dune' where I've waited for eons, and now given up on them getting anything right. But less pain with GOT now. I kind of suspect that it's actually deliberate. To disappoint and cause pain. Though now I wish Daenerys had flown down with her dragons and burnt the scriptwriters up, alive. Now that would have been a good ending! Best wishes, and compliments on your insight!
I just tell myself 1st four seasons are 1 show, the rest are another. Sure they have the same names and some surface similarities but it's a totally different show.
Ultimately I fault Martin for turning an incomplete project over to a studio and not being able to keep up and finish the story during it's production. He still hasn't finished it and likely never will. Screw Martin for sabotaging his masterpiece.
True enough. Books 4 and 5 start to go off the rails in their own right as Martin starts investing in too many insignificant characters. It was like Wheel of Time where whole books were dedicated to setup and nothing of importance happened. Yes, he needed to keep up and finish the story since David and Dan clearly weren't up to the creative challenge, but even if he did, it might have just confused them more or not been of any help from a TV series standpoint
@@aklimar2208 Nothing wrong with Dragon Reborn, apart from the damn author first diverting from finishing the series, and then go die before it was finished.
@@BPo75 Not sure if you're referring to Wheel of Time or the actual 3rd book in the series with that title, but I LOVED the series up until Jordan's last 3 books which went absolutely no where. Brandon Sanderson taking over to complete the series was the best thing that could have happened.
Took a lot of feedback from the last GoT video to heart, and I hope you guys will enjoy this one as well! Thanks for all the support!
Absolutely, if you want, you can DM me a document with the subs and I'll insert it! Tengo habilidades suficientes para insertarlo con el tempo apropiado. Muchas gracias!
I did enjoy this video. But I LOVED your first video about every error in season 8 because it showed that the ending MADE NO SENSE, it didn't feel like the ending they were building towards and I didn't get why they switched roles between Cersei and Daenerys. My guess is that they did it for subvert expectations.
Ran out runway AKA Book damn it GRR Martin finish the books :P
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 Thanks for the kind words Sydni! And I think you're on to something. They seem to have been too focused on being unpredictable...
I've got videos coming up on Every Error in S5-7 as well! Hope you'll enjoy those just as much!
@A Jew Free World what do you mean??
The downfall of the last 2-3 seasons completely destroyed the rewatchability of the whole series, even though the first 4 seasons are a masterclass.
Nevertheless, seasons 1-4 are quite self-sufficient and worth rewatching.
Agreed. Sadly, it's a weird place to stop watching though :/
Yea….I actually tried last week to rewatch the show from the beginning. I couldn’t get through the second episode, knowing where it was going the journey just doesn’t feel worth it anymore.
I used to watch the series multiple times a year. I havent once since the finale.
The Battle of the Bastards was great. But, otherwise the once great show was gone
I binged watched GoT in less than a month and was upset and confused with how it ended can’t imagine how all the people who invested years into the show felt
Felt incredibly heart wrenching. The meme ''they massacred my boy'' is the definition of the show seasons 5-8
It felt like an enormous rip off and that's from somebody who pirated the last 3 seasons of the show.
I watched it in a week 💀
@@sebiieex
How?
@@xaviercockerton6989 I didn’t sleep or go to class
"Tell Cersei, I want her to know it was me." Olenna was such a gangsta. It definitely was the best part of season 7.
I dare say that scene alone carried the entire season somehow.
@@CultureVultureMedia1 Didn't really make sense why Cersi had such a burning death grudge against Olenna though. That would only makes sense if she knew Olenna killed Joffrey, but at the time she didn't
I thought it was corny personally.
@@TheStapleGunKid maybe because she constantly made Cersei feel small, stupid powerless, and we all know how petty Cersei is.
I thought the best part was the very end when the wall fell, what a shame what it led to though or shall I say didn’t lead to
Got another one for you. There was a point in season 1 where a Dothraki swung his sword at Jorah’s armor and it couldn’t pierce. That allowed Jorah to kill the Dothraki. Armor seemed to become paper after that
That's a good point!
thats how armor really acted too irl. Sucks the show didnt keep with that trend.
Oh, and before that scene there was a seemingly off-hand comment about how the Dothrakis' swords were good for calvary combat because of the way they were made but weren't ideal for piercing armor like the one used by most knights in Westeros. It was blended in so smoothly with what was just a casual conversation, but also not completely overlooked because the conversation was about weaponry and combat, so you were already listening to what they were saying and absorbing the details of the conversation naturally, so when the scene you're talking about happens you go "Ah, that's right, he said it doesn't pierce armor!".
Absolutely amazing writing.
Whilst the point still stands overall, there were still a few moments in later seasons where armour works, like when a sparrow attacks zombie mountain and I think jorah also has his chest piece prevent a spear impaling him in season 5 in the fighting pits
Yea, the mountains armor was not paper thin after his rehab.
It took that spiked pike thing well enough.
The two worst things were Arya not being involved in Cersei's death and Jon/Bran not being involved in the Night King's death. Arya's entire storyline was learning to be an assassin to kill the people on her list, Cersei being the first person on it. Jon and Bran's entire storyline was learning how to and gathering the humans to try and beat the White Walkers. The fact that those storylines didn't get fulfilled is just bad storytelling and leaves the viewers saying "well then what was the point of all this?".
Nah, Sansa and Cersei had bigger beef - with Arya pulling the knife on her. Would have been some major payoff
What about the biggest one opening season 8 where fans were waiting for him to react to him being Targaryen but in the end he walks north to Canada instead 😂
Diss a point.
@queenb2450 I am with you. After all Sansa endured, she should have become the mad queen. She deserved the Cersi kill. Arya could have been an accomplice to satisfy her list maybe???
NK should've killed Jon in the final Battle for Westeros on a snowy Dornish shore. Dany died in childbirth at the tower of joy, giving birth to triplets one son (the prince that was promised), and 2 girls . Almost everyone, including all dragons are dead. The final stand is in Dorne, where they have to fight for time for a handfull to escape with the baby prince and princesses. During all that NK kills Jon... the ship sails away, just out of reach of the NK. There's a handfull of people on the ship: Arya, Tyrion, Davos, Brienne, Gendry, etc, with the baby prince and princesses, with 3 dire wulf pup keeping 3 dragon eggs warm.
The night king walks in to the sea, kneels, puts both hands in the sea and the sea starts to freeze.
AAAAAND FADE TO BLACK..
THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE END FOR GOT.
The 'long night' the NK and the White Walkers should be a threat to ALL mankind, not just the people living north of Winterfell.
You can make an entire new series about the battle for mankind on Essos. The young prince and princesses along side 3 new full grown dragons and 3 dire wolves as big as rhino's leading an army of the last men against the NK, white walkers and wights somewhere in a snowy Qarth,.
The thing that bugged me the most about the Night Kings death is not so much how it happened its when it happened. I haven't read the books but the impression i got from watching the show was that you have all these rulers fighting over the throne with the petty bickering and back stabbing. And while all this is going on the real threat to everyone is the mysterious Night King and the white walkers. But, by not having the Night King as the final boss of the show they’re basically saying...nah the show actually is just about fighting over the throne, the Night King and the white walkers was just some under developed side plot that was fairly easily resolved and was ultimately unnecessary the overall plot of the show. If I was to pick out one thing I hated most about the final season it would be this because it retroactively ruins your whole perception of the series right from scene 1 of the show.
Yeah, spot on. Everything got rushed after season 5 and ten years of build-up from literally the very first scene in episode 1 is wasted in the blink of an eye.
What's even more baffling is that the Night King is D&D's OC character. In the books they are just "The Others" or "The White Walkers". They have no defined leadership and are a total mystery. The show went to all these lengths with the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead....for literally no reason at all.
The NK was a quick-and-dirty way to end the story. With an ambigous threat, like in the books, it would have taken a decent chunk of seasons to end it, which D&D weren't perpared to do.
Yes exactly that was my main reason for hating the final season. Like the white walkers should've made it to kings landing like they foreshadowed, remember in season 7 finale it was snowing in kings landing but then it was beach weather in season 8. I believe Dan and Dave changed shit to be unpredictable.
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 and the very FIRST scene of the show is a white walker attack. With no payoff 8 seasons later. Remember those tales when Bran was on the bed about the Long Night? Turns out it was a literal long night. All that set up for nothing.
That idea of having Arya come back wearing the Waif's face, and lying to Jaqen, is BRILLIANT. That would have been SOOO much better.
Imagine if we the audience thought that Arya is dead. And then later, Arya reappears as the waif at House Frey and only after all the Frey men drop like flies does Arya reveal herself and say, the North remembers!
They could have left the audience in the dark until this point, who the Waif really is. I'd also change the mechanism of how faces are worn. All faces belong to the same god. I wouldn't show if Arya kills the Waif or if the Waif is just Arya herself with a different face, killing herself, and thereby sacrificing herself to become one with the faceless god. After this point, she would be an incarnation of the god, having Waif's or Arya's face, by shape shifting. This would then explain her supernatural fighting skills, sharing all the knowledge and skills of all the other people who have sacrificed themselves. So after her sacrifice, Arya might not even know at first, when she "wears" Waif's face. She might be surprised that no one recognizes her until a big reveal.
@@matfax ok
@@matfax this is an excellent comment! And is far superior to what the show did.
Agreeed!
Khal Drogo dies from a single surface level wound.
Arya stabbed multiple times falls off a bridge into dirty water. Survives.
Life be like that sometimes
Back when the show had stakes. A nasty wound for a character could actually mean death
Arya didn't survive, no one did!
No he didn't. He listened to his wife. The witch poisoned his wound.
@@kulascott581 so in essence a single surface level wound
I’m still not over this massacre of a show
Then maybe you should try it again. 😉
I feel you!
Yeah they really effed up by not fully adapting A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons. They shouldn't have gotten ahead of Grrm but Dan and Dave thought they were smarter than Dan and Dave.
I love it
Same. I know how irrational it sounds but I feel so robbed of my time and energy despite the fact the series ended a long (subjectively speaking) time ago.
I don't think I'll ever get over the way they managed to butcher every character so absolutely and just throw every plot line out the damn window
Really ruines the rewatch value too :/
It was baffling…like they had a meeting and said “you know everything people like about the show …the lack of plot armor, the consistent smart characters, the putting of substance over style, the high level political intrigues, attention to detail, having spectacle only where it fits, etc. From now on…..just do the opposite of all those things. They’ll love it!”
They made little finger dumb in the end when he’s supposed to be very smart
It was a spectacular failure after everyone worked so hard to build the world, characters and plotlines to not be just another cliched tv show. It's like they didn't understand the while point.
It was because they never understood any of those characters. GRRM created them to make the reader think about their type or class, so they were subtly different from their archetypes. The writers never got that, because they think "themes are for eighth grade book reports". So rather than see Tyrion as a way to explore what disability means in a fantasy world that priotizes mighty warriors, or Brienne to see how the deck is stacked against women who want to be warriors, or Cersei as a way of investigating how did the Evil Queen become evil, they just went with the easy version. They see Ned loses, so they write him as a loser, they see Tyrion is cool & Brienne is a badass, so the write them as a stock cool dude & a strong badass who takes no crap. Tell me how Brienne is different from the female Marine in "Aliens" or any other stock exceptional female combatant, without mentioning physical traits or plotlines. They NEVER wrote the good versions of the characters, they wrote standard TV characters who matched up to a blurb of their superficial traits. This was merely concealed in the early seasons, because their flat cliched characters were forced to follow the path of GRRM's plot, which was driven by his deeper and more complex versions.
As a result, we were fooled into thinking there was depth in the screen versions. The "butchery" was simply the characters move out of the narrow path Martin wrote, and suddenly they had to stand on their own and were unable to.
What they did to Tyrion's character is what really enraged me. Peter is an amazing actor and Tyrion despite being a dwarf with a mutilated face was my favorite character by far. He was funny, clever, and a good person in a sea of corruption. The show-runners turned him into a weak, scared, and basically unimportant member of their horrible last two seasons. Total idiots.
It very much reminds me of what they did with Han Solo in ROTJ.. from an interesting, funny, capable character into a joke shell of his former self
Tyrion is not an good Person in the books. He is troubled, has trauma and does some evil things. The series just sold him as a good guy, because that's much easier
@@DieEineMieze Please do not compare the German translation of both books and show to the original - the translation in both cases is cringeworthy! But you're not wrong, of course. Tyrion in the show isn't a truly good person either, neither is my fav, Varys. The show could have done a better job to show Tyrion's inner conflicts and questionable actions. But much of it comes trough in the horrifying dialogues in the first few seasons. And there are a lot of videos who discuss the problem you're seeing - how cutting material from the books robbed Tyrion's show character of depth and even credibility. Maybe these videos would be of interest to you, they often contain the name Tysha. I'm rather proud of the GoT following for not moving on, but keeping on discussing books and show. Maybe the main thing that fascinated me with this show, the way it motivated people, got them to communicate, share their creativity, damn well *talk* to each other no matter where they where from, this energy that came from so many minds working with the concepts and premisses of this show, is not all lost and wasted. It might even bring about an improved remake, that will again call the community together and this time, maybe use the generated energy for something of value. Lass mir Deine Katze grüssen!
The soy eating simps and red-haired h0es that "binge" shows were fascinated with the quote "I drink and I know things". They associated themselves with that, they see themselves as super intelligent and misunderstood while they drink themselves into misery.
IM ENRAGED BITCH
Arya getting stabbed multiple times by Terminator. Then jumping into pee, water and shit. Totally surviving that, no problems! That was just ridiculous.
First time I was angry at the show was when Jaime didn't tell Tyrion about his wife's true feelings at the end of S4. But I started *hate watching* the show after Terminator Waif somehow missed any vital organs and Arya swam through raw shit muttering 'Tis but a scratch'
that was the worst
I want to bang the Terminator
"The show died with Tywin" is the most accurate retrospective of the series I've heard. I don't know who said it originally, but after re-watching the seasons over, it's so true.
I think died is the wrong term, but it was absolutely the turning point as it was mostly downhill from there with a couple spikes in quality in Seasons 5 and 6.
Tywin was better than the book character. And it can be thanked to the talent of Charles Dance.
The source material took a nosedive in quality around the same point too - end of book 3. Books 4 and 5 are mostly meaningless filler written because GRRM doesn't know how to continue the story. This is why we will never see book 6 or 7.
What we have here is a great first act of the story - the first 3 books, and then nothing.
@@shurik121 He probably didn't expect to live that long :)
So inaccurate it is not even funny. Do I have to collate all the posts on the internet that were loving off and completely bumming the fuck out of this program right up until Season 8 episode 3 and 4?
The objective proof is in the online posts of the fans which were 95% positive up until season 8.
"The show died with Tywin" is the most bitter and moody thing I have heard so far about it. Have a look at yourselves from another perspective.
I will NEVER understand why HBO didn’t seek out new writers before S7. They were ready to write blank checks to these guys to write upwards of 10 seasons. Yet they caved after “successfully” getting them to NOT stop at 7 but go to… 8? All with shorter episodes? It’s genuinely hard to not feel robbed honestly. Imagine a world where we got 10-12 seasons with writers who wanted to be there.
this might be this world in the future. if the brand grows lager and the final books are written, there could be a complete "canon" rebot of the series.
thinking of the partition now over 1,5 million people have signed, saying to rewrite season 8
The show fell off because they ran out of George RR Martin’s legitimately masterful writing to adapt. No writer they could have hired would have been able to maintain the level of quality from the first 4-5 seasons. It was always doomed to end badly when they started to diverge.
benioff and weiss had the tv rights, not hbo
How boring. Have you problems with living in reality?
@@dirkgonthier101 who doesn't in these times?😂
Cersei’s fortune told to her when she was a child said she would bear three children, gold will be their crowns and gold their shrouds. Meaning she will outlive her children. She was also told that she would be Queen till someone younger and more beautiful would take her place and when her tears were about to drown her, her (valonqar) would choke the life from her. Valonqar meant younger brother in the old tongue. Now this explains her psychotic over protection of her children. Her dislike of Margaery Tyrel who was younger and more beautiful. And her hatred of her younger brother Tyrion who was prophesied to kill her. Now when Cersei and Jamie were born Cersei was older by a few minutes so technically Jamie is her younger brother. It would of been better if he was the one to strangle her to death instead of have the two of them reconcile and die in some stupid suicidal embrace in a crumbling castle.
The "rocks fall, everybody dies" death of these two characters is such an abysmal travesty it hurts.
@@ruecumbers they died under castle rock. Being from castley rock
True. People were expecting that and some even thought it was being foreshadowed by their scene together on top of the floor map.
How about Arya strangles Ceirci with (shocking reveal)TWO hands, as she wears the face of Jamie (who died earlier, somehow)! Then ARYA gets buried in rubble, as a consequence of seeking her revenge. That would be cool
@@WanderingIdiot81 If you really want the shock reveal you have Bran warg into Hodor’s body and strangle Cersei with that man hammer between his legs. Then you find out the Hodor was just him trying to say Valonqar the whole time!!!
One thing that stuck out to me on rewatch is how EMPTY all the scenes are. Literally. When you think about throne room scenes, war table scenes, even just like, dinner scenes, there are just way less people in them in the later seasons and definitely a dearth of those people who just kind of exist in the story and pop up here and there without having much of an impact (like Kevin Lannister, Amory Lorch, Greatjohn umber, old Nan and Ser Roderick, etc etc).
The same thing is happing to the "fast forward" HOTD, imo
@@aliabdol10 I don't think so. It's gotten way better in season 2, than season 1
@@vingedheart dunno, in season 2 they started to teleport
I've seen it said multiple times but the way this series completely annihilated it's own cultural impact is astounding. No one talks about it at all. They're bringing out a prequel series and all I've seen so far from anyone is muted curiosity.
they have some source material, but im not sure they have enough for a whole show
I think that must have to do with the fact that, despite the fanbase by and large realising that it was bad only well into season 8, it had been getting worse for 4 seasons (5 years) already, with only a minority being aware of the trend.
During seasons 5 to 7 it kept getting bigger and bigger thanks to the enormous amounts of money that were poured into the CGI and in general the production, while failing to resonate on a deeper level because it had lost what built its initial success (the character evolution, the deaths of beloved characters etc).
It was a Hollywood big-budget, low-content production with the good guys blowing up the bad guys and much filler in between; when it ended, its most memorable moments of the previous 5 years had been big battle scenes with huge special effects, which is actually bland since (courtesy of Disney) we are afloat in that sort of stuff anyway.
It's thesis worthy. Someone should do investigative research on what happened especially behind the scenes that lead to something so on top coming out so low
@@unclereub4024 I'm also not sure that anyone is gonna take Matt Smith seriously anymore after that dance in morbius. Can't wait for the edits though
@Imperator Caesar Traianus Hadrianus Augustus same, there were a few years where I would just spend all my time on the ASOIAF wiki just inhaling every single bit of trivia. Now, nothing.
Still hurts when you remember the first 4 seasons and how good they were
cry whiteboi
First 4 plus hearthome and sept of baylor
First 4 were amazing, I feel like the show got too popular for its own good. They felt like they didn't have to try as much
yeah butthe first episode was actually horrible....I was soo lae to GoT arty because I just watched first eisode when it came out and it was sooo feakin boring :D it took me years to watch the show finally and then I was also insulted with this horrible last 2 seasons :D
@@HK-gm8pe it's good just slow
Game of Thrones died with Tywin Lannister. Season 5 episode 1 was when I first noticed something had changed. As soon as I heard Tyrion and Varys talking I actually went on the internet to see if the show had new writers or whatever. I was convinced some veterans stepped down and new writers stepped in because of how poor the dialogue was compared to seasons 1-4.
I was told ,read the Writers! Wanted out,to do other things?! Such as Starwars,etc. How you were going to tie up all the subplots,characters? In less but longer episodes?! TOO MUCH to cram into time slotted?! Remember DEADWOOD? Yeah?! Lefties us hanging,armed chinamen with Spencer Repeaters?! And the town ,up against Gerald McRanie, as outside BIG $, mining! Nothing?! He leaves Town?! End of Story?! You heard about movie to end Story. NOTHING?! Then I get text,8 yrs. Later, movie to end Story?! And ,2 characters ,actors,dead ?! One Powers Booth! Lucky rest were still around?! At least ending? How's about Showtime,killing off BORGIAS?!Not about Ratings, but it's too expensive?! To DO?! Main actor even said he'd take pay cut? With last season Script all Written, ready to go?! Fans went through Roof,so Showtime ,as a Sop,put Season Script online,So we could read it?! Boardwalk Empire?! Cable seems to not Want to Spend ,$?! And let's not forget ,good old GEORGE MARTIN,got pissed because everyone thought he'd Croak before finishing books?! Then pleaded Old Age because he couldn't keep up with writers?! It's All About $! Egos, Talent,Old Story! I told everybody they couldnt tie it up? I was Right?! And finally BIG ONE?! YOU WIN to be Queen of CINDERS?! No One to Rule,Pay Taxes?! Hitler in Bunker?! That's it!
s04e09 was stupid as hell. Rather cheesy.
Don't forget Stannis. His character was completely butchered in Season 5, show Stannis is nothing like book Stannis, in the books Stannis is my fav character and I'm still pissed how Dumb & Dumber massacred my king.
There Was a dip in quality in season 5 and 6 but it was still for the most part pretty good and still felt like game of thrones season 7 is where things went tits up
Holy crap! That’s exactly what happened to me. I noticed the writing was off from their first sentence
season 5: Hopefully next season will be better.
season 6: You are tearing me apart!
season 7: Look how they massacred my boy.
season 8: Whatever. I just need to know how it ends.
Too bad there won't be season 9..
🤣true...but look at HOTD.
but in truth it's the viewership. no one watched so they had to cut short. It was just not possible. Everyone blames the two idiots instead it should be HBO who get the blame.
There was a level of botchery and laziness in season 8 that borders on malice. It's almost hard to believe they didn't intentionally try to butcher every character's story.
Same for season 7. It's just as bad.
You couldn't be more wrong. This was always going to be the ending. You just couldn't see it because you wanted to see something else and that's the genius of it. The masses watched it, rooting for the wrong people. Not understanding the ending at all. A small percentage of those who watched, understood that Dany was Nazism repainted as a female so that people would have sympathy for her. George convinced FEMINISTS and LIBERALS to root for a female Hitler. It is an amazing prank and you all deserve what you got. I love the ending, it is essentially the story of Ragnarok, for all the warring, bickering, gameplaying, at the end of the day comes to naught. The cycle continues without you and your petty mortal squabbles. This was exactly the ending I predicted. Watching "fans" of the show get tricked, was hilarious. The masses watched it, but only a few understood it.
@@maxdamagusbroski crafting an ending for the masses to hate, on a show which the same masses adored, is malice. You just made my point in saying the directors deliberately pissed off the fans. The end result of each character isn't what's so detestable, it's how they got there. GoT's entire appeal was throrough and slow development. Season 8 completely mailed it in, like a lazy high school student who didn't want to finish the project and slapped something together just so they could claim they turned it in. It was lazy, because the rest of the seasons weren't They skipped over loads of story telling to get to the conclusion because they were tired of making the show. The directors all but said as much. You're either a sadist for reveling in others' displeasure or a pompous theater student who thinks you have some esoteric knowledge only those with elite delusions could appreciate.
@@maxdamagusbroskinah, it's just a pile of crap.
I always thought it was apparent that Dany was going to be Lady Hitler when she watched her brother die with zero reaction, but I guess that’s just me.
I was amazed that so few people had issues with Season 5 when it aired. It was CLEARLY not on the same level, no longer sure-footed, with numerous questionable developments, especially with Stannis.
I have to admit I too was still suffering from trusting them to carry on being great well into the latter half of the series.
The hype back then was just too much and i was naive to fully believe in the show so even if i noticed flaws i just overlooked them. First thing that really threw me off was the Arya parkour shit after she was stabbed multible times but even then i still had faith. Only when season 7 came out i finaly had to stop beeing in denial about whats happening to the show.
Yea, idk what you're talking about. I clearly remember people being let down by season 5 due to the Dorne plotline being atrocious. I actually remember more criticism for season 5 than there was for season 6. Back when season 6 first aired people loved it, most people were saying "finally we get some pay off for the good guys!".
@@monkeyboy275bobo8 Dude what? Season 5 was most definitley criticized back when it first aired. The Dorne plotline especially was universally panned.
@@bostontowny4life744 Yeah some people did criticize the show i never said there wasnt any criticism at all. Even season 1 was already criticised by some book readers for cut characters and stuff. What i meant is that critics werent taken serious by most back than including me since that was seen as complaining on a high level and the show was still considered one of if not the greatest ever.
So yeah MOST people didnt really care back than and were just super fucking hyped for more GoT to see what would happen next after 4 seasons of great worldbuilding and story buildup that looked like it would lead to a super epic and probably tragic and highly comlex conclusion.
20:07 "Peter Baelish, arguably the most intelligent character in the entire series, falls for a trick so transparent light accelerates through it" 😂 well done my dude, well done
He was my favorite character in the show
It was a middle school type plot, the showerunners holding everyone's hand and asking " aren't we so clever??" No. No you're not.
It's called overconfidence.
@@asarishepard8171 Middle School. That's a Scooby doo plot
@@emmanuelmondesir1314 don't insult Scooby-Doo like that
Here’s the thing a lot of people forget: GRRM was strapped in for as many as 13 seasons. He laid out how many seasons he figured each book would take, and yet they moved way faster than they should’ve. They completely dropped plot lines that would bite them in the butt later in order to squeeze in time, and they ended up finishing all the books in the first 5 seasons. The flaws were there from pretty close to the beginning; people just didn’t see them.
On that note: it's June 2024 as I post this. Season 13 would have just dropped (assuming the same release windows).
Still only five books released. Maybe if they had gone to 13 seasons, they could have bought some time for GRRM.
At the same time, it seems like GRRM wouldn't make any progress anyway.
@@PassionFingers not necessarily. One of the things that GRRM mentioned is that he’s been busy with a lot of other projects since GOT ended, so it’s possible that if the show was still going, he’d have had more time.
Regardless, 13 seasons would have given plenty of time to both give the remaining books the detail they needed and to space out events in the remaining seasons.
So you're saying a book should have been two seasons?
There's only 5 published books which took the show 6.5 seasons to film. Book 3 was split into 2 seasons b/c there's a lot of stuff that happens in book 3. GRRM was under contract to publish book 6 & 7 before the show needed the source material. He broke that contract. Why he broke it is another story. GRRM is the true reason for 2.5 seasons of fast tracking. D&D & HBO also had parts to play in how & why but it started with GRRM breaking his agreement.
@@kylemendoza8860 book 3 was split into seasons 3 & 4 b/c a-lot happens in book 3.
I watched GOT for the first time last year, and I'm honestly glad that I waited until after it had all come out. Made the disappointing ending less painful because I didn't spend years of my life invested in it.
You know, that's probably one of the reasons for me. I mean, there are lots of reasons and this video was a great deep dive into those reasons but yea, YEARS of my life 🤣 YEARS!
I watched it first time during the quarantine, it was good to not wait for next seasons to release
the ending wasnt even disappointing. form your own opinions
@@duane2080 I did form my own opinion, and my opinion was that it was disappointing.
Writers got lazy didn't want to really adapt the books and they are not the only ones(see the witcher) but not using the content to the maximum and trying to rush because you are offered other projects jsut to lose them too 😂
I thought Jamie Lannister had a really compelling story. He went from a character you despised to someone you grew to enjoy. Then they just walked back all of that progression to have him go back to his sister and die with her.
I actually kinda expected Jamie went back to his sister, but in a different way, that is he became Kingslayer once more.
and there was that whole rape scene...
Yes, what they did to Jamie in Season 8 was ridiculous.
@@zitronentee Agreed! One of the scenes I thought of the most throughout the show was how they would play out the saga of Jamie and Cersei. I always thought that him coming into the world holding onto her foot was foreshadowing to how they might go out together...but not so anticlimacticly...under a pile of fucking rocks. Lame.
omg that was soooo stupid it hurts my brain
Basically once GRRM was no longer influencing things, the quality started dripping out. You didn’t notice it in season 5-6 that much, but once 7 rolled around you couldn’t help but notice how deflated it all was. By season 8, there was little more than a wet fart left in a once great show
GRRM has no idea what he's doing. It's just all hype
I wasn't aware in S6. Made excuses, like one perhaps do for ones and things one love in S7. It all blow up in S8, talk about right in the face.
I was aware things were going downhill in season 4. Season 5 onwards was a cluster fuck.
You absolutely did notice it in seasons 5 and 6.
@@KaitainCPS maybe it was noticeable in 5-6 but every show makes some bad writing decisions and bad writing wasn’t really being talked about as a core aspect of the show until later. By series 7-8 bad writing was basically expected and GOT started being seen as a show with bad writing not just a show with a few weird writing choices
The saddest part is we’ll never know George R Martin’s intended ending as he takes so fing long to finish a damn book he’ll be dead before it’s truly done.
And he's said he doesn't want anyone else using his stated intentions and notes to finish the books once he's gone. 😔
@yuyutubee8435 we will get gta6 before he finishes the damn book
That’s why we have to wait for the books
I suspect the bastard has already finished the series, but we won't see it until he's dead and gone. Whatever he writes now will never live up to everyone's expectations, so it makes a lot of sense to me. No one can make his life hell if they don't like what he wrote, cam they?
@@ommadawn8434yes they can, they already make his life miserable with all the _Yu ouwme da booooocs_ demands and constant harassing. He doesnt owe you nothing, just because you like ASOIF doesnt mean he has a debt to you, especially if you are a glorified cyberbully
The worst part of S8 for me is the battle of Winterfell's strategy and how it was horribly planned. As if Dumb n Dumber didn't even bother to hire someone with a knowledge of how medieval battle strategy works.
Couldn't agree more. That Dothraki charge was the most ridiculous thing.
Jon Snow "we cant defeat them in a straight attack"... 5 minutes later, full Dothraki charge.
Never mind the stupidity of the tactics, just the fact that threw away one of the dynamic story elements in a mass of off-screen deaths. After all the fanfare and struggle of getting the Dothraki there in the first place, they just...go away...without really doing anything. It's bad not just tactically, but also from a storytelling perspective.
@@christiankalk4668 very true
Go check out Invictas Channel revised battle plan on that episode.
The writers at the end of the day were spectacular editors and mediocre creators. Embellishing, cutting, and generally making the books translate into excellent tv was their forte but trying to create entire plots that could stand next to one of the best fantasy writers of the modern day was far outside of their capabilities
Seemed like they were just eager to be done with it all after the source material dried up, and wanted to hurry to their next projects.
Hmm, not so sure about that. They were adapting source matériel and they did that well, Peter Jackson showed them how. However, it is obvious that source dried up once that ended they had no idea where to go, so they had a look at Twitter, saw what was trending and boom, Super Arya, Girl Power and fan service ... just like the rest of TV. This was somewhat foreshadowed by the way certain character's clothes would blow off at faint breeze.
They were out to make money and once they had no map they did what TV does.
@@I_Don_t_want_a_handle it’s not super respected but good adaptation is a skill! Knowing what to cut and when to add is definitely something they excelled at, but in the later seasons they went from editors to creators and that’s a completely different skill set. I definitely agree that it feels like they were rushing to the end for the last few seasons and maybe that was due to $$ but it also may have been because they just didn’t like know how to handle the behemoth they were trying to pilot.
When Jon decides to tell Arya and Sansa about his true parents and we GOT NO REACTION shot I knew we were going to be completely screwed.
It's not even the fact that they weren't able to deliver but the fact they refused to resign from the project, they refused to give anybody else a try, and they even refused any additional episodes HBO would've given them to wrap things up in a satisfying way - they pitched for FEWER episodes than what they were offered. They chose to set the sinking ship on fire just so they could be done with it and move onto to-be-cancelled star wars project.
I will never watch another thing from dumb and dumber, f those guys
The way Jaqen Hagar was misused in the end while being one of the coolest characters of the show was mind-boggling to me. Him having no role at the end was so awful. He deserve his own show
He might’ve trained Arià to kill the Night King without her knowing, that would explain why he let her leave without consequences. This could've been cool and tie Aria's plot in Braavos nicely. But nothing of that happened.
Jaqen doesn't appear in the books after Harrenhall. He replaces the "kindly old man" in the books in the House of Black and White because people liked Tom Wlaschiha
Totally agree!!! Why did they choose to be "done" with his story, his contribution to the show??
So stupid.
That houses whole thesis is being no one. With arya claiming her name and him being cool with it and killing the waif was just throwing that whole plot away. It was by this point and dorne I knew we were in trouble. And they threw the dorne plot away as well.
so is having bran fly the dragons north and getting one of them killed. It is so much better
- gives Bran something to do and reinfoces his rivalry with NK
- builds conflict between Dany and the Starks
- makes a lot more sense then the whole Gendry running about thing...
I know he said all those things, I just needed to reitterate it, cause I thought it was such a good idea!
From what I remember about the series, season 4 was the beginning of the end for me. There is such a shift in tone from the previous seasons. It felt more curated, less raw, and more Hollywood.
Yess I felt that shift as well. Tywin dying definitely brought a change in the overall tone of the series. A lot of people are ”blinded” by the terrible quality of the last two seasons but the show’s quality had been getting worse seasons prior to that.
It still hurts how they managed to turn one of the best TV shows ever into an epic fail in the other half of seasons. 😖😖😖
Maybe building up lots of interesting female characters just to tear them down again wasn't such a great idea 🤷♀️
@@loldiers3238 I feel like they tore everything down 😂☹️!
It's easy when you remember that the writers are pompous and have been breathing in their own farts for several seasons.
and it was the begining of the end of all creativity coming from the US. It's like americans can't write a story anymore, as if they lost their soul.
I’m so happy about the sequel, I hope and pray they’ve done a good job bc the ending of got has to be the worst of any show ever written.
I knew it was trouble when they announced that there was only gonna be two more seasons and they were only 7 & 6 episodes... but the moment the show actually died for me was when they went north of the wall - They're in an arctic environment, and they have time to send Gendry running back to the wall, to send a raven to Dani 1000 miles away on Dragonstone, and then have her fly up to the wall... all in the time it takes ice to freeze in the arctic. Having her just get a bad feeling or something silly like that, decide on her own to leave days before they're actually in trouble, and just happen to arrive at the right moment to save them, would have still been better than the crap they came up with.
Also, honorable mention to ice zombies that we just established can't swim, 20 min later taking massive chains to the bottom of the lake to secure the dragon. And just where do ice zombies find massive dragon dragging chains in no man's land north of the wall??
😂😂😂 I was talking about this yesterday
How did they think we would just let it pass? Is the raven going 1000km/h and the dragons as well???
Same with the chains, did it just spawned for the convenience of the plot? Apparently
The moment it really died is when they fucked Stannis over, had him be defeated by a mentally ill person.
That entire story arc was idiotic. They didn't need to send 7 main characters north of the wall to capture a single wight when the Night's Watch already had rangers on patrol who'd been encountering them much more often than usual...
I knew the show was in trouble after the first season. But I still enjoyed it to the end and now have to laugh at the fans who thought it was so greeeatttttt in the beginning and so terrrriibbllleee in the end. For the truth is there really was not much of a difference between the beginning and the end.
The beginning had too much shock and sensation, and that ruined the point, purpose, plot and conclusion of the end. Game of thrones was always going to have a disappointing end, for it was set up to have one right from the beginning.
That arc was the moment I knew i was watching an awful fanfiction of what once was GOT.
The Arya Wearing the Waifs face idea would have been awesome. Can you imagine the shock everyone has when the Waif comes back and says Arya is dead, just for her to take off the face after Jaqen leaves the room or something. People would have lost their shit and it would have justified the offscreen death.
Honestly, it might have been better if Arya was revealed to be the Waif wearing Arya's face
@@billvolk4236 No one cared about the waif, so there was no audience investment in her as a character. That would've been hugely disappointing.
The Arya being waif or whatever this guy says in the video is so bullshit..waif was not ordered by Jacquen to take Arya's life .it was her own wish..as she kept on commenting Jacquen against Arya..acting and killing as per your own selfish wish and desire was not what faceless men preached
I finally got round to watching it and yesterday halfway through season 5 I decided just to watch the recap for the rest of the show. Things were indeed starting to progress in a weird manner. I found myself asking “why” a lot. ‘Why is this character doing this?’ And there was no payoff. Knowing how people said it ended badly, I decided to save myself the trouble.
In my world a giant asteroid destroys Westeros after season 5. The end.
Yep, people rattle on about “the last two seasons ruining everything”, but the rot starts to set in within season five. There’s enough momentum built up for it still to be entertaining, but the logic is starting to disintegrate for the first time.
The recap for the last leg of the show is just "she is our queen"
The death of the second dragon was kind of lazy as if ships could see the flying dragon but the dragons couldn’t see them
Thank you! I came here to say this! How does a dragon not see the damn armada of ships out in the open ocean. Worse than this to me was the moving ship firing a giant arrow hundreds of yards into the air and hitting a flying dragon. That would be a difficult shot with a modern rifle, much less a medieval giant arrow launcher. If dragons were that easy to take down, they would have never been the doomsday weapon they were shown to be.
Yeah. Dany has the only arial reconnaissance in the world, but she gets ambushed by a fleet at sea?
hehe the entire writing from the beginning was lazy...the resurrection and killing of Jon Snow was lazy, so was the killing of Shireen and Verys.
Too many senseless deaths, lead to a senseless and pointless conclusion. You can only have so many red weddings and resurrections before the entire thing come to look like a bit of a nonsensical joke in the end. I still enjoyed the series. But it was not as good as Lord of the Rings, but I disagree with fans who say the end was so much worse than the beginning.
The end and the beginning was very similar, they were all apart of the same pointless plot and problem. Too much senseless killing for shock value without thinking about the consequences, and yes that was the case about the dragons too, but it was not just about the dragons.
Very literally, within the SAME EPISODE, they are war planning in the North and specifically discuss the Iron Fleet... the entirety of Seasons 7 and 8 are lazy.
I've thought about how they could have written a more plausible scene for killing one of the dragons. Maybe they sneak a ballista onto Dragonstone hidden under some vines under a tree, and leave out some goat carcasses, and then a hungry dragon goes "ooh, snack!" and before Dany can stop the dragon, it flies over and then gets headshotted by the ballista.
Even the scene where Olenna confesses to murdering Joffery is kinda bad when you realize that she didn't fulfill her promise to Littlefinger where if her house were to fall she'd have nothing to hide and bring him down too
But only if HE brought her house down... Surely?
@@LusciousTwinklewhy would that be a condition? It gives Littlefinger a reason to use his resources to protect her house, and prevents him using a proxy to try doing it since Olenna would be flicking his doomsday switch anyway.
@@InnuendoXP True.... But she was about to die. I doubt Olenna would be thinking about Littlefinger... She just wanted Jamie to know she'd killed his shitty son.
Just hearing GRRM talk about how this series could’ve gone on for 11 or 12 seasons just makes me so upset. The writers got lazy, plain and simple. Anyone who is an avid fan of the show/books could’ve written a better ending, let alone two people who read the books and wrote/produced the series for almost a decade. They didn’t want to do it anymore, they wanted to move on with their careers; the series and the fans be damned. They would have been cultural icons if they kept it going and did it right. Absolute tragedy on all counts.
the producers got lazy. they were offered the starwars gig and wanted GoT finished and out of the way.
Daniel Brett Weiss and David Benioff. two useless twats who ruined one of the greatest series ever made.
I’m gonna disagree with you slightly and say d&d didn’t get lazy. But they definitely got arrogant, which is arguably worse.
@@dramaqueen_tbg I mean, they were offered 10 seasons, but they went with 8 instead, with the last one being short. So that's lazy
So true 😢😢
Agree with the first comment: they became arrogant and entitled. If they just have given the torch to other writers and producers, things would have been very different. They could have had their liberty to do some other shits (Star Wars series and the Netflix deal), and their reputation intact. But no, they choose to do it all by themselves and ruin the whole main series. Fortunately, HOD did it so well and there's new interest in the ASOIAF world.
The idea of GRRM dying before finishing his magnum opus, therefore allowing D&D to effectively have the last word, should be THE motivation for George to finish his goddamn series finally.
But, alas, its not likely. You're honestly content with THAT being the conclusion of your life's work, George?
GRRM is never going to finish it. He lives in all of there time. In short GRRM is his own version of King Viserys.
He's to busy writing the stupid Dunk n Egg series with in the "world" and off on weird sidequests in the "world"
@@KJ-xx6xr Yup. Sadly hes gone full Hollywood and realized its better to milk and existing franchise for all its worth with prequels and spin offs rather than give it a satisfying conclusion and risk killing his cash cow.
He doesn't owe you anything, and plenty of authors publish work right up until their death. Maybe if people like you didn't treat him like a villain when he's the one who started this whole universe you love he'd be more motivated.
I think he will likely go back on his previous word and leave some sort of notes with other authors with a plan to publish ... something ... posthumously. It will likely be clear that, yes, whatever it is will have been his true vision. Though, of course, there are always some fans who won't believe that.
Even up to this day, I still cant stomach how this show ended.
I can deal with Season 5 & 6's flaws but the last two were a complete train wreck
Agreed, was able to forgive becuase of how awesome Hardhome and BotB was but you could feel the decline no matter how hard you tried to ignore it.
@@jch010 Hardhome wasn't that great; it was prematurely showing the Night King to Jon. And BotB has a ridiculous ending ripped of from LotR. I loved the Sept of Baelor though,
Lucky me I read how bad s 7 and 8 was I never watched it . I am now reading the books and can tell you they are amazing . Even the best scenes from the show can’t compare to the seens from the book . I have been thinking about some chapters for days so good they are
@@bobbobson661 you spared yourself then from all the stupidity that was season 7 and 8
@@bobbobson661 your are so lucky compare to us
I still find it amazing how this show crumbled. I agree with your analysis of how the show fell apart, but I was aware of it while watching. But I had so much invested that I had to keep watching. My wife gave up in season 5, calling it "stupid now", but I suffered through two more years of it. I finally quit in the middle of episode 3 of season 8. My doctor warned me my eyes might get stuck if I kept rolling them so often.
I stopped at the end of 4. After several years away, knowing the ending, I recently binged the rest for closure. Frustrating as it was, I still can't believe how badly it got after the third season.
I felt like I was taking crazy pills while watching season 5 because I complained about it constantly and everyone I knew who watched it was talking about how cool the previous episode was, that scene with the thing, or when character said line like there wasn't a glaringly obvious drop in quality
I finished it then went and bitched on Twitter about it lol
David and Dan, “tell the fans it’s was us; We wan’t them to know.” The most surprising death in the entire series is the show itself I know it was foreshadowed but when it actually happened it still took me by surprise still does. The faceless men Couldn’t have pulled off a Cleaner assassination of so many characters in such a short period of time.
“In that case, the wine isn’t really poisoned. Come on now boys, we’ve got some walk of shaming to do”
@@JL-yq9xn that’s a fucking fantastic idea. Will Have himself begging the z”walk of shame”s. Starting at the supremes courta shame walk from the White House to all around the mall and the sights.
I love how the showrunners rushed the show to a terrible ending just to get a star wars gig only for that deal to be cancelled. I know it's just a show, but they did the fans very dirty and I hope this forever leaves a stain on their career.
Plus those idiots never grasped the source material.
The irony is that D & D seemingly rushed to finish this series because they had all kinds of things lined up. But, between how the series ended and Covid, all of their opportunities dried up. People try and argue that the ending, with Dany turning, is what got people so upset. But, in reality, it was the set up - or lack thereof. D & D looked at Game Of Thrones and thought that it was all about subverting expectations. But, that wasn't it at all. The art of what Martin did was to build the characters and story to the point where - even if you didn't like them at first - you would eventually start to like them just as he killed them off. The way D & D treated deaths was more like fan fic.
Well, the subversion of expectations works well only if you react with something like "OMG, how could I have missed this", or maybe if it's just ignoring out-of-universe expectations (like killing main characters, instead of reinforcing the plot armor). Subversion of expectation based on pulling stuff out of digestive tract is just lousy writing.
I feel like the fall really happened because they were doing what Hollywood always does... they stop crafting a compelling story driven by characters in favor of trying to force the story to support a series of more and more epic battle scenes.
I don't think I have ever seen something go from a world wide phenomenom to just... not a thing as quickly as GoT did. People just wanted to forget about it and it just died hard.
It now resides in a special place in TV history that previously hadn't been occupied by anyone. It broke new ground, in all directions, some negative.
@@BigBlack81 i remember Lost tv show. similar shit hit the fan scenario
@@trauty666 Point well taken and well made. I forgot about that dumpster fire of a show.
@@trauty666 "Shit hit the fan... "
I think season 8 hit every one of them... and I'm not talking about the things that circulate air.
Yeah it's really crazy. No one talks about it now. It's as if it never happened. Even with shows like Dexter people will often recommend the show and say "it went to shit towards the end." But with Game of Thrones it's not even brought up, that's how badly the ending was ruined.
1-4 were mind-blowing.
5-6 were up and down, had interesting moments, but this is where filler started to crack through the show.
7 was mostly bad, but every now and then I found myself enjoying it.
The only memory I have positively of season 8 was Jenny of Old stones.
Do you mean the song?
@@SamanthaBoooooooo I think the characters sitting down and drinking and acting like characters before the pending doom was neat. Also the knighting of Brienne.
Yet...its still good. And somewhat forgivable.
I understand they are rushing in season 7. But...season 8 is just...very very very very disappointing.
The golden company is the best mercenary...and got roasted on the first deployment.
The dragon got killed...by a balistae fired from a ship. Its as if the ship got invisibility cloak or something. And then next episode, the ships all got burned down by the other dragon.
I mean, rush the episodes if u want, but please dont assume the viewers are stupid.
@@eleethtahgra7182 Exactly, they were more good then bad, but they were definitely starting to show the negatives.
I don’t know how you guys could stomach seasons 5-8, much less enjoy them. Like he says in the video, the quality and dialogue started going downhill in season 4. By 5 the whole show seemed kind of pathetic to me.
After all these years, here we are still talking about this show. I watched it all twice. Like you, I was still riveted to seeing how great the first seasons were. What a deep shame how f**ked it got by the end, story wise. The visuals continued getting better.
Great insight!
At this point, i have watched more videos bashing GoT than the actual length of the show
*AND I STILL WANT MORE*
I've got plenty more in the pipeline. Stay tuned! :D
The change in season 5 was immediately noticeable to me. I couldn't ever quite put my finger on it, but the show absolutely felt different compared to seasons 1-4, all of my friends said I was crazy but I could never shake the feeling that the show had changed in some way, and not for the better.
Season 5 was when they started running out of book content and started making up their own story. The writers just started killing main characters (characters that are still alive in the books) for the shock value of doing so. Also remember that the HBO series left out a LOT ... a WHOLE LOT ... of content, so them rushing through book content was pointless. Aegon Targaryen ... is he a pretender or the real deal? Don't know, he isn't in the series (No, Jon Snow is NOT Aegon Targaryen). Catelyn Stark ... or lady Stoneheart, out hanging half of Westeros. Shireen Baratheon, will she take over if Stannis dies ?(yes IF, Stannis isnt dead in the books).
@@wvin1450 well what’s crazy is I’ve heard about this dorne plan in the books and it sounds so badass and cool yet in the show dorne totally sucks the sandsnakes suck it’s dumb and so forth but I don’t even want to read the books now cuz George WILL NEVER FINISH THEM
to me your story felt like it was you who changed and no one else. why do you think people who had been as dedicated to it as you were for the first 4 seasons were still enthralled with it after that? it just sounds to me you lost interest and just blamed the show for a reason you cant even explain.
I don't think so, among the people around me I was the one most dedicated to the show. I still watched it with significantly more anticipation for each episode release than any of my friends, regardless of the change in quality. There was a pretty big drop off in quality beginning with season 5, and if you want to be salty about it go ahead but it's literally a proven fact at this point lol. Not even to mention it was while the show was still coming out that I couldn't figure out why it wasn't as good, and all these years later if we want to get into it I can put into words why. I definitely changed in the year or longer between each season, but it was the show that obviously changed for the worse.
Women writers killed it.
After the Night King's death, I remember people saying things like, "This is good. Now we can get back to the politics, which is what the show is really about!!" Except ... we never did. We never COULD in three episodes. The politics of the earlier seasons were a slow burn with satisfying payoffs along the path of plot and character development. This show was never supposed to be about fan service and call backs to lines some character said once before in a context that had no justifiable connection to the climax. With the time they had left, the Night King should have been a reckoning throughout all of Westeros, forcing the characters to realize that the pursuit of the throne was folly. The Night King should have come to within a hair of conquering the entire continent, until Jon Snow and a few of the remaining characters figured out a way to defeat him. In the aftermath, there shouldn't have been any kingdoms left. No throne. No power. Dwindling resources and a rag tag collection of famished and broken armies. In the end there would be a few survivors, lucky to be alive and left with the decision of how to rebuild a new world in a new reality.
I kept thinking there was going to be a "holy s**t" episode where the show reckons with the fact that 17 years of civil wars and massacres have made hundreds of thousands if not millions of corpses for the Night King to re-animate. It's kind of a Chekhov's Gun when you see the White Walkers can raise the dead, and then you see the Riverlands basically turned into one big graveyard over several seasons. I was sure it would factor into the story, because realistically once the North falls, the next kingdom down (the Riverlands) has been _by far_ the most devastated during the wars and has enough dead people to overwhelm the other five kingdoms.
@@CountArtha Great point. Even when characters were able to engineer what they THOUGHT at the time was a victory, there was always a consequence. Joffrey executing Ned Stark, Cersei turning the High Sparrow against Margaery, Robb capturing Jaime, Theon betraying Robb and taking Winterfell, The Night's Watch betraying Jon. In the early seasons of this show, nothing was just "happening". Every action led to something that would have to be dealt with down the line. Then seasons 7 and 8 happened, where Cersei faced ZERO consequences of blowing up the Sept. The faith was the primary religion of King's Landing and there was no revolt, no protest, no new Sept members plotting against her. And Jaime pushing Bran out of the window was just a hand wave with Bran saying it didn't matter?? And yes, if the Night King can raise ALL the dead, the consequence of hundred of wars should have come back to haunt Westeros. The Long Night literally lasting for a few hours was a disservice. In the aftermath, Westeros should have been completely reset. The fact that they were still left arguing and debating over who should sit on the throne WITHOUT any resolution to any of the prophecies and questions that the show set up from the beginning is bizarre at best.
The thing that bothers me the most is the fact that the night king was built up right from the beginninh episode 1 only to end that story in 1 episode with an terrible battle. It wouldve been so much better if that wouldve been the focus of season 8
It's interesting how badly it fell out of pop culture. At the end of season 7, it was still good enough that all of the actors could have spent the rest of their lives making bank on GOT conventions. You couldn't fill a high school gym with fans now. All of those characters and actors had their legacies erased in one season.
True, it's really unfair to the people who spend such a large part of their lives working on the show. I'm sure they're wiping their tears with montains of cash though.
Imo smartest actor in whole GoT was Jack Gleeson. He quit acting and went to college after Joffrey was killed. Smart boy!
well, it didnt help that some of them, to this day, still defend season 8 by saying the fans are just wrong about it. I love Peter Dinklage in this show, but... that's some major case of denial right there.
I felt the most sorry for Kit Harrington really. From what I gather he had a seriously troubled time after GoT ended.
It was still leaps and bounds better than this video analysis channel, more fun watching paint dry.
It definitely had a big fall out. I still love the show and always will. It was one of the best shows for the decade it ran and it felt like everyone was talking about. Yes I absolutely hated the last season and wish it went very different. It’s a shame that that big of a show just fizzled out and now no one talks about it.
I've written several book series under other names. Writing multi-book, multi-year series is a specific skill. It's not the same as writing a single title, or even a title and sequel. Particularly impossible if you're taking over someone else's world-build. And Jesus, GRRM can world-build. D&D are TV writers with no experience of writing story for 40 or 50 characters. The crash was inevitable. But kudos to Culture Vulture Media, I was starting to think I was the only one who became uneasy in Season #5. It was like air turbulence when you're in a jet. You feel it and most likely it'll be okay, but every now and then it's a warning.
Cheers, Michael! Yeah, it's just strange that they did so well at first. It's like they didn't learn anything from their own success. Wasn't it obvious what people enjoyed about the show? How do you go from attention to detail and integrity to Jaime and Brienne hooking up? I guess we'll never know...
I've always wondered why the producers adapting novels are always the villains in vids like this, while the novelist who quit writing novels gets a free pass? 🤔
The show started sucking when it ran out of source material.
In your experience in writing multi-book , does it get more difficult to write new books the further you get into your book series ?
@@TheRemover469 I imagine it gets harder to add new elements to any story the further it has progressed.
Oh, yeah. It's just mind-blowing how GRRM created living breathing world with such extensive history and lore all by himself, and this world is totally believable. World history is believable. Freaking dragons are believable. Characters are alive, have their inner motivations and personalities.
That's not the case with D&D, at all. "We thought viewers won't expect that and it looks cool" - that's basically their explanations of everything they did.
The disastrous ending of GOT has changed how I now view TV series. I no longer watch week-to-week TV shows. I wait till a series finishes then I'll either binge-watch OR read the ending to see how it's critiqued to see if a specific TV is worth viewing. I do agree that with your comments that GOT became dumb and dumber after Joffrey's death. At the end of this series, I was furious for wasting 8 years of my life and subscribing to HBO only to see a great show implode (in the middle) then sink into oblivion. It's too bad I didn't watch this video of yours NOW after GOT ended to find myself not interested. What a waste of the Knight King or Winter is Coming clichés. And finally, Jon's birth parents amounted to zilch!
The last series of GoT may well have damaged trust in telly beyond repair and brought about the twilight of the golden age of telly. I think people are gonna be a bit more picky what they watch from now on and won’t be so forgiving.
My family has been doing the same thing with books (not starting them until the series is over).
The funny thing it started with the Song of Fire & Ice book series which are the basis of the Game of Thrones series. George RR Martin wrote the first book in the series in 1996, the 2nd & 3rd in three and two years between each. Then it took an additional five years for the 4th and again 6 years for the 5th. It's been 10 years since the last book At this point, don't expect to buy his next book.
Yup. Same.
Yes, this was the last show that I looked forward to watching and even made sure to watch. After that last season I haven't been excited for a new movie or show until the new Dune adaptation.
Wokeism and fast demand media have ruined movies, tv shows, and Western comic books.
FWIW you can have faith in Succession and Barry for HBO shows. And Better Call Saul is coming into its final season and it's better than ever. Those shows know exactly where the plot is going already, and know when they will end. That's how you know a show will be good.
There are so many times I want to rewatch the show and always think “what is the point?”
I love watching the actors talk about season 8. They all obviously were so disappointed by it as were the fans. The buildup of The White Walker's for absolutely nothing. The were so epic they could have had an entire season to themselves.
oh, they could have done so much with all seven kingdoms having to work together to defeat them over the course of a whole season, they had so much to work with,it’s truly disappointing
Absolutely. there was so much mystique surrounding them and so much more about them that could have been explored. Why did they want Bran? What do they even want?
Whats the connection between them and the white Raven? The show did absolutely nothing with any of that.
HBO told D&D they could go up to 10 season, each of 10 episodes, but they wanted to cut short, because they were out of ideas, and wanted to start working on the Star Wars trilogy they had been promised.
Agreed that season 4 is when cracks started to show. The only thing that would make this analysis better would be an explanation. "The show ran out of book material" is both untrue (there is so much more in the books) and ignores the true point of failure: D&D themselves. Many people forget this but around the time of S4, there were plans for D&D to direct Star Wars movies for Disney. This is why everything in seasons 5-8 is so rushed. D&D wanted to finish GoT ASAP so they could sign on with Disney.
The most ironic thing about this of course is that the destruction of GoT was so bad it convinced Disney to pull out of the deal with D&D. "Ran out of book material" is a convenient excuse used to cover up how terribly untalented D&D are.
yeah, they bailed, but dragging it on forever couldn't've fixed it. only george really knows where it was going, maybe lml, or greenhand or shiftaltx, but d&d, or really just d never knew. george bailed making a mind-blowing ending impossible
I agree that lack of material probably wasn't the issue. I suspect at some point, they disagreed with George (in his consulting role) on some plot points and wanted to go their own direction. George, made his points and stepped back from his role, and that's how we ended up with what we got.
I wouldnt call them "untalented". More like "untrustworthy". One could have all the talent in the world (as they seemed to have in the very beginning), but if they are unwilling to see a deal through with honesty and care, whats the point? They could have done great things with the show, but instead chose to intentionally tank it so they could leave sooner.
@@batzxxl And you would be kinda right, but more like they severely mislead GRRM and he stopped helping from what I understand. He left his old note, but never added any new ones
HBO was willing to throw money at D&D to have Seasons 7 and 8 with ten episodes a piece. But they rushed through it and shit the bed. I think it was a mix of them running out of detailed source material but also letting the success of the show get to their heads in terms of the shows direction. George gave them broad outlines of what will happen, but who knows how much specific detail was included.
The thing that bothers me apart from the whole last 4 seasons is that Dan and David a.k.a (Dumb and Dumber) knew Bran stark would be king in the end but still didn't include him in 1 full season and then made him a side show without any character development anx then suddenly he's the king.... And why bcz Tyrion said he can tell stories.. Wtf....
Its Jon who should be the King....
The thing that bothers me is that people still use that idiotic insult (dumb and dumber) to refer to the two producers years after the "joke" weared off.
@@abraham2172 David is that you?
@@Amandor2011 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I expect Tyrion to be King in the books.
I expect Bran to ride off with Arya and sail West in the end.
Why? Because this story is a retelling of the Wars of the Roses, Lord of the Rings and Cleopatra.
Bran is Frodo (and the Ring). Bran is also the prince in the tower in the wars of the roses.
the "magic" has to leave westeros. the age of man is the end of the story. Like Frodo leaving the Shire on the last boat out of Middle Earth.
The wars of the Roses end with Henry VII (Tyrion) marrying Elizabeth of York (Sansa) and creating modern England.
The unification of Lancaster and York bring England out of the Middle Ages and into the modern.
The red hair of the British Royals traces straight back to the red hair of Elizabeth of York (Sansa).
Unless George Martin was intending to provide a different ending to the Wars of the Roses and the LOTR, this is how it would end.
The Cleopatra story line of dany ended similar to history. Conquer then die and the family dies and the Greek period turns to Roman.
So, I expect George's story to follow the wars of the roses and the lord of the rings.
This also makes more sense with Arya's story line. Every Stark became their wolf. Arya needs to become the Gollum (Schizophrenic who steals the ring (Frodo) and the Nymeria who takes the last of her people across the ocean.
George stopped promoting and cooperating with Dan and Dave after season 4. This is not well known, but until s4, the author was promoting and working with D and D. Until S4 George was writing episodes and providing direction. S5, there was a complete schism. GRR Martin had no role to play in S5-8. He was cut out out. D and D had the rights and they decided they did not need the author anymore. This led to bad storytelling, unsure ending, lack of dialogue, etc.
D and D were convinced it was them that made the show. It was actually George. The greatest literature to film ever done, began to unwind itself in S5 because D and D no longer knew where to take the story. (especially because the books were not complete)
I know hindsight is 20/20 but your alternative ideas for how Games of Thrones should have been written after Season 5 are awesome. Would love to see your ideas on screen someday. Nice work!
Thanks a lot! I’m actually working on a video series called “fixing Game of thrones”. Look forward to that :D
Thank you! Finally someone who acknowledges that season 5 was the start of the downfall. I knew something was off when the show writers trashed one of my favorite villain creations by G.R.R.M.: Littlefinger. This guy orchestrated so many of the big maneuvers in seasons 1 to 4, the epitome of an evil genius, then suddenly became a lame duck. I was so looking forward to Littlefinger being taken out by the Starks in epic fashion, but instead he went out with a whimper because his character had already been neutered.
Exactly my feelings. Littlefinger was the mastermind in the background the only one who was able to play in his league follows with his own plan centered around Daenerys. His end was ridic and when i watched it the 1st time i knew that the writers simple hadnt a clue how to solve this character correct so they decided to simply cut this line in the story. As they did with so many other characters in the later seasons...
This. I would like to add that not only D&D weren’t in the slightest able to write Varys and Littlefinger, but also they didn’t know what to do of Tyrion and arguably Arya anymore after S4, apart from turning them into sidekicks to Daenerys (to whom they also gave every possible resource and plot armour imaginable, only to make her squander much of it in S7)
LF in S5:
Aaah yes finally, I have discovered synthetic retardant (giving Sansa away to the Bolton's)
Littlefinger could only die with a whimper because he is physically weak, in comparison. His death would always be an embarrassment in a world of warriors. They could have had his world fall apart, his power diminished and his person banished in shame, only for him to plot his return. His death at the hands of a warrior would always be a lame one, though.
@@I_Don_t_want_a_handle yeah but smol wolf girl badass
I feel like the death of Tywin marked the death of the show. He took all intelligence and strategy to the grave with him.
Do you think Charles Dance had the credentials and balls to call out D&D if he didn’t like the way a scene was written, in a way that the rest of the cast may have struggled to ?
Definitely agree. Charles Dance’s presence on screen was remarkable and really made you understand why people were afraid of him. But it was always more than just inciting fear. His purpose was his legacy and every move he made made sense
@@thesnoopmeistersnoops5167 he said in an interview that he’s disagreed with scenes but they didn’t care and wouldn’t budge
Yeah him and little finger made the show mad interesting 🤔
If that's the case, then stop watching this series after Tywin's death. It a simple solution for a very simple problem.
When this show was running, I used to rewatch the previous seasons as a refresher and, over the years, I definitely noticed a lapse in quality that begins in season 4 and just gets progressively worse as time goes on. The showrunners running out of material to adapt was definitely a factor in the decline, as was their apparent lack of interest in the project later down the line. There's the quote from Martin about how many more seasons could have been made, but I also remember hearing that HBO were trying to throw crazy money at Benioff and Weiss to keep the show going, and how the pair kept turning down HBOs offers because they thought they were going to get a Star Wars movie.
You can tell that Benioff and Weiss were out of their league when it came to writing, which is unsurprising considering that the show was Weiss' first project to get picked up, and Benioff's most notable credits before the show were Troy (an excellent film _in spite_ of its bad writing) and X-Men Origins: Wolverine (an absolute shitshow of a movie). They started with excellent material to adapt, and did an OK job with it, and by the time they ran out of material the show was already a pop-culture phenomenon maintained by it's own inertia.
IMO, HBO should _probably_ have replaced them with more talented writers after Season 5 at the latest, probably Season 4 if I were to be brutally honest. But, like the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", and HBO were making big bank off the show despite the showrunners being on the wrong side of mediocre.
They should have had Martin choose new writers and have him consult them, or just end the show at season 5. Or perhaps the show should have aired a decade or more later than it did, could you imagine..........
@@asclepius.dionysus a decade later? It's been more than a decade later and TWOW isn't close to anywhere done while ADOS will never come out before grrm kicks the bucket. Nothing would have changed
@@asclepius.dionysus end the show at 5 would have been fine. We would all be saying I can't wait for Martin to finish his books so they can turn it into more seasons. None of the huge problems, dumb endings and all this build up for pretty much no reason.
As it is, they listened to the fans incredible response by the numbers watching, listened to the bank a count going higher so in their minds, us giving them something is better than nothing. As it turns out no, we'd all been happier with a shorter series but 100 times more satisfying and lots of room to grow in any direction Martin wants.
The didn't ran out the skipped
On my second watch through. Some searches for lore related stuff (As i haven't got round to reading the books) led to this video. I am currently on Season three with the girlfriend. Enjoying them so Much the dread I began to feel watching the show dip in qualdity has started to crop up early.
Ah, different times. I remember thinking the first time "You know what they've had such a good four seasons, a crappy season was inevitable. I'm sure they'll turn this around."
A classic example of the "Too big to fail" mind set.
I started a rewatch recently and I agree season 5 is where I started saying "Wait that's dumb" far too often. It's amazing how much better season 5 and 6 felt when you still assumed the show-runners knew what they were doing, so you kept giving them the benefit of the doubt.
I agree with every single thing you said.
I enjoyed seasons 5 and 6 even with huge cracks forming, but season 7 ruined it for me.
The scene where Jon tries to give long claw to jorah particularly stood out to me as so poorly misplaced. That convo should have happened on the ship to east watch, not beyond the wall. And going beyond the wall was the stupidest thing ever. in season 3, them doing that would have gotten all of them killed, in season 7, thoros dies, and thats it. Soo God damn dumb
Man, samesies. I thought season 5 was fine first time around, and only really realized how ridicolous it was after knowing what it lead to.
@@CultureVultureMedia1 it's the little things they did that were just so dumb and it snowballed.
The whole going beyond the wall in s7 could have been done without it being stupid. I thought of a way to get the NK a Dragon without "Trying to capture a white for cerci.
If bran doesn't get to the wall in s7 ep 1, and is stuck beyond the wall and is able to get word jon or winterfell with a raven he can warg into, then it gives jon a reason to go their, he could get daeni to help with the dragons and the nk can take it down. they could grab a white that was chasing bran while there and have proof.
It's not the best idea but it's better than a kidnapping to show cerci .
I'm getting heated again about it hahha. Still not over it
D&D: You know, since we have this character that can resurrect people, the show has a lot less tension since any of our main characters can just be brought back to life if they die. Oh I know, let's just have something really stupid happen to remove him from the show so we don't have that problem.
@@jonathansnow8222 Maybe Bran could have just warged into a goddamn dragon and snagged a wight and dumped it through Cersei's window if it's so damn important to prove the wights are real, haha!
My biggest gripe was that throughout the whole show the overarching villain appeared to be the night king. But then the show went the cliched route of living long enough to be the villain with Daenerys going power happy on the throne. Not a bad concept, but the fact they totally went through the white walkers in an episode really did a disservice and made it feel so underwhelming especially with all that buildup
Cole, think about it..you can go and really cut all references to the white walkers now...pointless.
@@brot5246 right - they mean absolutely nothing to the plot. no purpose.
That episode is when I stopped watching the show. I still haven't finished it and never will. Completely butchered decades of set-up.
Well to be fair book dany is already showing signs of mental instability. She is her father’s child. And the chaos and destruction she left in essos shouldn’t be discounted. She is a villain. She brought a foreign horde to pillage and destroy vast swarths of Westeros
- "Has it occured to you that I might have some insight?"
- "What do I do then?"
- "I don't know."
lol what
peak writing this
Smartest person to ever grace the seven gods' green earth
lets see what you can write? oh that right you cant
@@robmlisanti I've seen better fanfiction than the writing of s5-s8 GoT
@@robmlisanti Just because someone can't do something, doesn't mean they can't see when it's done poorly.
@@robmlisanti*sigh* we are not payed to write scripts. Its not our profession, its not our jobs. Its the script writers job. When they are doing a shitty job, then we can point it out. But its not our duty to do their jobs for them. Please learn this simple difference before you speak. If you order food and you get a cold meal thats supposed to be hot, then you dont walk out into the kitchen and start cooking the meals for them. You complain so they can fix it
"the only problem with the series at this point is how no one can be bothered to wear a damn hat even though its freezing balls outside." abahahaha that made laugh
The biggest tragedy of the show was the way they basically wrapped up seasons of hard work and build up for Stannis and basically his whole demise lasts 30 mins and he’s killed off with not even a proper on screen battle 😭
Yeah. Being half-dead and then suddenly sprouting super powers to kill two nobodies really lacked the dignity he deserved.
@@CultureVultureMedia1 what a stupid comment.
I keep coming back to GoT Season 8 critiques as a form of therapy
One thing that really helped the early seasons is that back then, every faction had at least one somewhat "good" character that I really liked. So it was hard to root for one side to win, because any victory from one faction would mean the death of a character from another that I really didn't want to die. But in the later seasons, the factions fell into the more traditional roles of "good guys" and "bad guys", so there was clearly one side you were supposed to root for.
Good point!
I would disagree, the cards were dealt in the very beginning. But again its up to your perspective
I agree except for characters like Tyrion, in the beginning he was more true to his book character but all the way in season 2 they kinda whitewashed him (not the racist definition of term btw) same with Cersei tho at least she was still “bad” they actually made Tyrion a “good guy” while he is not so in the books.
It was a good direction initially however it came to a screeching halt when season 5 came around and the couldn’t adapt to their own writing and ended up creating almost an entirely different Tyrion……. A second time.
@@thefisherman0074 Tyrion was pretty much a good guy from the start of the series. Can you think of any evil or seriously immoral act he committed in the early seasons? I can't.
@@thefisherman0074 Well put. They missed the glaring opportunity to explore Tyrion's darkness.
im wondering since i don’t wanna look back weren’t the dothraki in a tent? they could’ve cut their way out or crawled under
pls correct me if im wrong
It is so refreshing to know someone else also sees Shereen's sacrifice as the price for Jon Snow. I've been saying this for ages! Melisandre even SAYS her sacrifice is about melting SNOW
Shereen and Verys death for me was pointless and should not have been done so senselessness. Just like I think it was to kill Jon Snow and then resurrect him later, or have Melisandre act as someone with real power, and yet make the power serve so little as a purpose. I like the serie both in the beginning and the end, but I think the series had a bit too much senseless pointless violence, killing and nudity just for shock value, at the expense of the story, plot, purpose and a satisfying ending.
So a very good series, but it was never great for me. I don't think it was necessary to kill Shereen, Verys or Jon Snow...for me this was overkill!
.. that makes sense, this also explains why Snow went from being basically an incel to a simp after his revival. it was just so poorly communicated
@@ProgressIsTheOnlyEvolution Book 5 ends with Jon's death.
@@musicisfree91 Death is one thing, resurrection another entirely.
But Game of Thrones will never be the best for me. It was a brilliant series which had a lot of things it did better than almost anything else, but there was also decisions made in Game of Thrones that I absolutely hated.
The death and resurrection of Jon Snow was one of them. For both the killing of him and resurrection of him made no sense whatsoever, even for a fantasy series.
I don't mind realistic shock effects, but I do mind it when the shock effects are so ridiculous that it seems to defy every law, logic, moral or reason in the universe.
Makes you realize what a masterful writer GRRM is when you see how it suddenly stopped being good when they ran out of books, I've been listening to the audiobooks for months and it's like a healing balsam after what happened to the show, I can highly recommend it.
Love the books. Read them every year.
Have you read his last few books? They are god awful, Martin wrote himself into a corner and gave up but didn’t have the decency to inform the show-runners or the fans. Blame the old fat bald asshole, not the show-runners that suddenly had to fill in the massive gaps themselves.
Yeah, we can't call ourselves true fans unless we read or listen to the audiobooks 📖Since GRRM was out of the loop after Season 4, whatever D&D did on their own past that point isn't considered canon 🤦♂
@@SSGoatanks You know what really confuses me? GRRM's involvement in House of the Dragon.
He signed off on everything, which technically makes it canon, but it still has less to offer than GoT ever did at its lowest.
While I fully agree the first 3 books were brilliant, In all fairness book 4 started to meander, and book 5 was a hot mess with a lot of meaningless subplots that go nowhere.
Brienne waltzing onto a battlefield, killing Stannis without anyone ever noticing was one of the absolute low spots for me. Another was the amazing battleplan at the battle against the dead at winterfell. First the dothraki ride out to meet the dead in open battle (after which the dead king could lift his arms and raise a while army of undead dothraki - but he luckily forgot to do so). Then they place their own army in front of the ditches meaning they will have choke points trying to retreat to the walls. They then decide to hide their civilians in the crypts (full of dead people) for some reason. At which point the castle is overrun, the dead swarm around inside, Arya kills the night king and every single main character then steps forwards, sayung something like: "phew! that was close".
the battleplan in the Long Night was so ridiculous I kind of like it now. Too bad it was so dark.
It was only supposed to look cool on camera.
The whole point of castles is to be able to defend FROM them. Not stand out side of them. The should have had the siege and archers with dragon glass on the walls with rings of fire all around. Used the dragons to burn the wights.
What were the Dothraki even doing there without dragon glass weapons? How did they know Mel was gonna turn up and use magic to light their weapons? And for what? So they could run into the darkness to die.
The problems are endless.
That battle scene broke me. First they're fighting at night when they could just hide in the castle and wait for daylight, then they send their cavalry in a suicide charge against an enemy in a terrain they could not see then their artillery was in front of their fortifications instead of behind them.
And to top it off they sent the most vulnerable to hide in a cypt from an enemy who can raise the dead. Genious level writing my friends.
@@RafaelSantos-pi8py Yeah, it's like Stannis the best battle commander of Westeros leading his disorganized army to an open field where his enemy can see him clearly without sending scouts to check if an ambush is waiting for them.
Hardhome was nowhere near as bad as The Long Night because it wasn’t just a black screen for half the episode.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Little Finger's death was awkward and untimely.
I figured he hired a faceless-man stand-in. Little Finger was always two steps ahead of everybody else.
I remember thinking “ clearly that was a faceless man who died in his place otherwise it was just so pointless” … but I was wrong
@@harrymills2770 I think con men always think they are steps ahead of everyone but that over confidence typically results in their death.
Yes, it would have been better if Little Finger had won the game but was left with a realm in ruins and the Night King at the gates of King's Landing.
@@harrymills2770 I thought the same about the faceless man, but after being thoroughly disappointed, I changed things (in my head) that instead of dying, he'd have fought back in a very non-Littlefinger manner and escaped. Everyone would have been confused as hell ... except Arya. Later they meet up, have a fight, and the faceless man reveals before dying that it isn't over.
I disagree with what you said about season 8. You said you could see it for yourself, but all I saw was a dark screen.
Lmao, I see what you did there ;)
I thought it was amazing, how nearly stationary ships. Snuck up on Danny and her flying dragons, and managed to kill one.
Hahaha... so many moments like this in the last couple of seasons it was like an SNL skit.
With accuracy on the level of a sniper using a scoped 50 cal Barrett. The truth about the dragons is that the only opportunity you had to kill one was when it was either on the ground or standing still in the air. And if it was standing still in the air, it was a split second away from unleashing fire.
@@superdave8248 do you have the same problem with how Tolkien killed off Smaug?
Another example of the uselessness of the 3 eyed raven character. I mean Bran couldn't seem to do ANY freakin recon for anyone ever!!
@@ba55bar Yeap. One in a billion shot from a weapon with an effective range of a few hundred yards.
In the US Navy we had inflatables we used for target practice in open water. We called them "Giant Tomatoes" because of their size and color. You would be amazed how often you miss something that is barely bobbing in the water using modern rifle sights.
You have precisely articulateed how I felt about it as it aired back then. I want to rewatch it with my children now that they've grown up but I know how bad it all gets and they're already, "meh" about even trying.
Man, when it was good, it was outstanding.
The idea of Arya getting out of the faceless men by wearing the waif's face was brilliant, I wish the writers had accepted submissions like they did for Star Trek TNG. Most fan submissions were bad, but there were still quite a few brilliant gems like this.
Wow, didn't know they accepted submissions like that, that's awesome.
And thanks, glad you liked my idea!
the writers were too high on the smell of their own shit to admit someone else might have better ideas than them
It would've been great. We see the candle go out, hear a grunt, then the Waif walks back in, tells Jaqen Arya is dead, walks out...then, on the streets of Bravos, Arya peels the Waif's face off. Great little twist.
@@0xmoo It cuts out a massive plothole - Jaqen makes it quite clear you Do Not Cheat The Many-Faced God, and Arya does it multiple times. And Jaqen just lets it slide.
Then, if they meet up later like they do at the end of the series, Jaqen realises a girl has truly become no one...not even he noticed.
I've heard a theory that shes the waif. That's why the waif asks her so many personal questions.
The crazy Dany part to me was everyone acting like she was this monster who shouldn't rule because she killed the tarleys and some slavers. When cersei literally blew up a church with entire houses in it, and small folks near by. I just didn't see the major difference between her violence and everyone else's. What because she had a dragon do it. Walder Frey killed everyone at a wedding. Everyone seemed to be extremely violent so why was she being judged so harshly by tyrion and varys?
People act like Dany is a monster because they're hypocrites. How is Dany executing the Tarleys- after giving them the choice to surrender and accept her rule and them flat out saying they'd never bend the knee to her, the rightful heir to the throne (as far as anyone knew)- any worse than Ned executing a man for trying to flee the White Walkers? Or worse than Rob executing Rickard Karstark after he killed Lanister hostages? Or Theon murdering two innocent peasant boys (one of which may have been his own bastard son?) Or Jon hanging a literal child?
Jaime is still seen as "honorable" after leading an ambush and helping massacre the Northmen in King's Landing, but Dany kills some slave owners (in retaliation for them killing slave children to mock her- that wasn't something that just popped into her head at random) and suddenly everyone's talking about Targareyn madness. Why's it only madness when a woman's doing it?
@@Silburific Also what's worse about that is the Tarly's were literal TARGARYEN loyalists so all that section does is point out the stupidity of the writing.
Furthermore it is exactly what you said. If we want to nitpick what "madness" means in the GoT world then you could make a case for everyone and the biggest criminal of them all is Arya but " the north remembers!" so its fine when she bakes humans into pies as an act of mere revenge whilst Daenerys acts out of compassion for literal slaves but all of a sudden everyone has a problem with it. If Arya had any other house tied to her name then she would be questioned about her motives but because the starks are so protected from this joke plot armour writing no one bats an eyelid.
@@Silburific You took the words out my mouth, what made it even more annoying is tyrion trying to save cersei after she murdered so many people and tried to have him killed multiple times. Yet arguing for Jon to kill Dany for basically the same reason. Honestly if they didn't have her murder the people of kings landing they would have zero evidence to support the argument. Which is annoying because that scene make absolutely no sense. They should have had her rule and show the people rejecting her first then have the people find out about Jon and start wanting him as king then make her go mad. Like add anything just make it make sense
The reason she’s judged harshly is because she preaches righteousness, the breaking of the wheel, and a new world, while in practice, she just does the same things like any other westeros ruler, only worse, since in a matter of seconds she can take out legions of people.
Cersei meanwhile doesn’t preach shit. Everyone who knows Cersei knows her to be a crazy bitch.
That’s why it’s always so disappointing with Dany.
That’s the difference.
@@kdr3619 but how is that bad writing? Isn't that just very interesting? "the road to hell is paved" and all that?
On re-watch, I observed for myself the cracks forming in Season 4. By far, it was the last truly great season of GoT. Yet, the divergence from the source material began here.
The split over the truth about Tysha when Jamie rescues Tyrion, the complete abandonment of the Brothers Without Banners/Stoneheart plot, them switching out Daario with somebody who looks and sounds nothing like him, the dropping of numerous Meereen characters, having Jamie at the Purple Wedding and making a rape scene with Cersei at the Sept of Baelor... So, the roots for some major changes in the story began there.
Season 5 was a bad season (with oddly Hardhome being one of the best episodes in the series). They invented a whole different Dorne plot because they intended to abandon the Young Griff storyline, Brienne's quest was all messed up because there were no Brave Companions, Arya's plot was pretty nonsensical, the Brotherhood Without Banners was forgotten, almost the entire Northern Plot was re-written, Meereen was watered-down, they murdered Barristan Selmy to give Tyrion more to do later... They killed the Dorne plot which had excellent characters along with most of Jamie's redemption arc in ADWD.
AFFC and ADWD are good books. I enjoyed them, as they kind of "cooled" things down from the intensity coming off of ASOS. Characters developed in ways the show never did. Brienne's mourning over Dick Crabb is one of the saddest moments in ASOIAF for me... "I'm sorry I didn't trust you. I've forgotten how to do that." Her real development as a character was on her quest. They ditched the entire Vale plotline with Sansa and just made an entirely new and non-sensical one.
GoT for many years was the best show on television. It could have ended in a way that made it a masterpiece. Now? I can't watch it after Season 4 anymore. I have never seen a fandom die so quickly.
agreed. also i just wonder why the faegon plot wasn't adapted? would it have been that hard to introduce 2 new characters so the donnish plot can at least make sense? it would even give varys and tyrion something to do.
Spot on. Season 1 was the best. Seasons 2-4 were ok. The rest was overhyped garbage. Most people only realized this in S8.
The stoneheart subplot is a bridge too far anyways. I hated it in the books.
It was never the best show lol especially the early seasons were a big snooze fest
You forgot the pointless sideplot with Asha trying to rescue Theon, armored Ironborn being fought off by naked dual-dagger Ramsay. A real S7-8 moment, except it happened all the way back in season 4.
Arya could’ve put Joffrey s face on ,walked straight into Cersei and cut her throat that would ve been epic
Everything you say i agree with. I never thought a tv show could betray me so personally. I started reading all the books after season 1 so i was definitely invested in this story. What an absolute shame it fell apart
I don't get it. What was the point of practically giving the Night King a dragon and nearly killing Jon Snow just to bring Cersei this zombie-skeleton so that she would help them fight the Night King if they easily defeated him without her. When i first watched the episode i was 100% sure that the would loose because of Cersei and would have had to run to King's Landing to defeat Night King there with Cersei's help or something like that. And why did Daenerys decide to make an alliance with Cersei if she could have easily killed her and her people with not 1 but 3 dragons. The would have been no need to kill the armies and innocent people, she could have gotten them all to fight on her side. This way the Night King wouldn't even have crossed the wall, because he wouldn't have had the dragon and Daenerys would have defeated him much easier and with a lesser cost.
Exactly thats why I hated what they did to Daenerys character because she had a chance to take cersei out when she first got to westeros but decided to take her army to high garden and fight the lannisters there because it was away from the innocents and then they had her go beyond the wall to save Jon, post phone her quest for the throne and make that alliance with cersei because defeating the dead was more important at the moment but then they threw that away when they defeated the night king without cerseis help and then Daenerys army multiplied and destroyed cerseis army so what was the point of season 7?
It just seems it was all meant to finally break Daenerys so they could have her fit the “Mad Queen” narrative. Daenerys and her dragons shouldn’t have been able to cross the Wall to begin with as the same warding magic that stopped the wights should have stopped them as well.When Queen Alyssane tried to fly her dragon beyond the Wall in “Fire & Blood”, it absolutely would not cross that Wall no matter how many times she tried. They took a lot of liberties that later created more questions.
Totally agree with what you said. You did forget however that the lighting in the last season was so bad you couldn’t even SEE how bad it was!
That’s what pissed me off the most, couldn’t enjoy a damn thing because I was squinting the entire time. Ridiculous
@@blion2225 The tactical blunders pissed me off the most. Sending in the cavalry first, have the army outside the walls, trebuchets at the front only to fire 1 or 2 shots, not enough pyres placed to light the battlefield, no scouting of the enemy, bringing the civilians to the crypts and so on.
@@origami83 At times it seemed they were just trying to get people talking about it, even negatively. A UA-cam comments & likes approach. As long as it drew in the advertisers, why should they even care?
@@blion2225
Yes Sir,
That scene of the white walkers inside was too dark, I had to re-watch in a high contrast mode to tell what was going on.
Actually, that was one of the most realistic things they did in that series. Westeros was mediaeval, which means no floodlights! There was a reason battles weren't usually fought at night in ancient times - the soldiers needed to see. I doubt that that was a problem for the White Walkers though, so it made sense for them to attack at night.
Finally a video where they actually talk about when GoT got bad. Everyone else just try’s saying seasons 7-8 are the only ones like they’re trying to cope. After season 4 GoT becomes unwatchable and doesn’t even feel like GoT
I think it is HBO's fault also to a
considerbale degree. When D&D were trying to rush up, they should have protested. They should have let them leave and brought in new talented writers to continue and finish the series gradually and properly.
You would still be waiting for season 7 right now if they had have waited ...... the source material doesn't exist. It is not their fault, they tried. Blame HBO and blame GRR martin.
@@derp-aderg4684 Storm of Swords was adapted in 2 SEASONS and the nex two books in just ONE.
Season 8 should have been the last Book-based season (and season 9 could have had WOW stuff)
@@diegoolivaresgonzalez42 Good point
@@derp-aderg4684 After season 6, D&D announced that they will finish off the series in 2 seasons, specifically 13 episodes, 13 episodes!!!!! This should have made HBO sprung into action questioning D&D. It was well known that the series had so much left to cover that it cannot be completed in just 13 episodes properly.
HBO should have asked D&D to either increase the length of the show or leave. After all, GOT was HBO's greatest show. You don't utilise your greatest asset so ineffectively.
@@derp-aderg4684 There were a bunch of stuff they didn’t adapt from the books, if they were so starved for book material why cut all that? Don’t blame George for d&d being incompetent and lazy.
Daenerys burning the Tarly's and her other enemies didn't mean she was getting mad D&D. If that's what it meant I guess Aegon I was mad when he was conquering the seven kingdoms
Littlefinger's death embodies the massacre of S7...
She also gave them a choice. Tywin murdered children in the sacking of kings landing but everyone thinks he’s awesome. She burns a prisoner of war. A man who already betrayed his lord when he turned on the Tyrell’s.
@@johnivory3245 exactly and also in the "inside the episode" to season 7 episode 5, Dan and Dave said that her decision didn't make her the anything like her father. So I don't believe they always planned on her going mad queen because Dan and Dave have said multiple times in their inside the episode clips even in later seasons 6 and 7 that she was better than cersei and that she wasn't a mad Targaryen. They did that to subvert expectations
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 Yep absolutely. From their own words they said she “isn’t her father”and she “isn’t the mad queen”. Guess they “kinda forgot” about that.
People seem to forget Tywin drowned 300 men, women, and children inside their own castle and then wrote a song about it. You know iconic Reynes of Castemere.
As a huge fan of the books, I was delighted by the first several seasons, and even managed to convince myself to enjoy seasons six and seven. _However,_ the first time I recall getting worried happened quite early: _Dorne._ The moment I saw Sunspear labelled "Dorne" in the title sequence, a part of me knew the writing was on the wall (it was like labelling Winterfell "The North"). I'd argue the show's abysmal mishandling of Dorne and House Martell was the first truly _unforgivable_ fuck up. They were so worried about making the show too complicated, that they overcorrected by simplifying the Dorne arc to the point of absurdity. The absence of Arianne Martel was a mistake. The absence of Darkstar was a mistake. Leaving out the twist revelation that Doran's apparent laziness was actually a calculated, patient plan for vengeance... was a mistake. And last but not least, the juvenile, asinine, _insipid_ reinvention of Oberyn's warrior daughters as vapid brats too proud of their own tits was an _offensive_ mistake.
100%. Couldn't have said it better myself.
The Dorne-label is definitely an error I could have included in Every Error for season 5.
Absolutely agree with this. The Dorne plot is my favourite part of the books. Reading the books you get such a strong introduction to House Martell with The Red Viper and you get invested even more after his defeat. Doran's Game is a fantastic long running plot even if he doesn't quite get to Xanatos gambit levels of planning. Arriane not being cast was a huge warning sign and as the show goes on it all goes sideways...Areo Hotah arguably the best fighter in Westeros after the death of Ser Barristan Selmy get's taken down by a teeny knife?
If I ever do find enough of a care to read the last books it will be because I want to see the Dorne plot resolved well. Even if the plans all end in being burnt by Dragonfire just like Quentyn did, It would be far better than what the show gave us.
For me it was great, almost perfect, until the Red Wedding, hit and miss after. That is until it totally went to shit in S7. The S4 ending was bungled so badly that I lost interest. The show didn't include the full Tysha story, yet still had Tyrion kill Tywin, which made no sense without the Tysha reveal. I knew right then that any and all competent writers were gone from the show. Wihout the motivvation for the violent act included, Tyrion just looked like a psychopath. This is like 6th grade comp, and it was embarrassing to watch.
I am fairly confident the creators never read books 4 and 5 and just looked it up on Wikipedia.
And I thought it was only me...I remember eagerly waiting for Dorne and the utter deception I felt with the first look at the Sand Snakes. Everything went downhill from there to me.
I'm so glad you include season 5 in the downfall. So many people still have the rose colored glasses and include 5 as part of the peak but I was so disappointed in 5 as it was happening. After season 7 and Littlefingers nothing death I was done after numerous just bad everything. I refused to watch the 8th season and have only experienced it in reviews and rants. I'm clearly not missing anything of value though.
The first crack in the facade is the pointless mission that Yara took to rescue Theon. It made sense that she would literally sail all the way around Westeros just to turn back when Ramsey set some dogs on her.
In the book she nearly saved him.
The death of Oberon to the mountain still makes me sad on every viewing…I wanted him to win so bad
Really, he did win. But his own hubris and desire for vengeance rather than justice was his downfall.
Imo it sucks that the mountain is still alive after that. He shoulda died along with Oberyn.
@@nearlydead7510 Well, it's heavily implied that he DID die and was at least partially reanimated
@@happytoastfudgeBest possible answer. Vengeance is NOT the same as justice. He got vengeance, a little bit of justice, and enjoyed neither because of hubris. Hubris should have no place next to an actual desire for justice.
The way he lost on the other hand created one of the most memorable scenes in TV history.
The most jarring thing for me while I was watching it for the first time was how people started teleporting everywhere in the last couple seasons. It felt like the show was in fast forward. There's of course a lot of other problems that were mentioned in the video, but that's what I remember most.
It's call Fast Travel, you can unlock it once you explore the area.
Teleporting wasn't that bad as such. Something you could have easily forgiven if everything else was good.
Exactly. They travelled the whole westeros in one episode while before it took half a season for a character traveling from one area to another.
I think Littlefinger basically teleported across half of Westeros in one episode ... twice. Maybe Jamie should have learned that trick so he wouldn't spend all of Season 3 getting to King's Landing.
Podrick running to the Wall, somehow sending a raven to Dragon Stone, and Daenerys flying to rescue Jon and company. What should have taken at the very least several days (and everyone dying of cold/wights) took a couple of hours?
"f*cked over by both literal- and Ramsay snow" That was gold
Bran being made king was a big disappointment. Also there seemed to be too many over the top death scenes with prominent characters suddenly killed off. Jaime for e.g running back to Cerscie only to die with her was another let down , and the second dragon getting killed off so easily...and on it went ..
Bran being King came from George himself he’s also confirmed it. Jaimes going back to cercei makes complete sense when you look at his character.
@@ItsSVO yea but the execution of all l that was so bad that it made those evens lose all impact.
He's based on Bran the Blessed, the basis for the Fisher-King of Arthurian legend, a Wounded King who rules over a ruined land. Him ending up as the king in the end seems like something planned from the start.
@@slothrop9345 brand the blessed. Aka, Jesus :)
@@joshuam4993 Not quite Jesus, but guarding the Holy Grail which contains the blood of Christ in Christian interpretations of the story.
I’m still in denial with how the show ended. It’s been a while but the pain never goes away. I hate how they handled Daenerys, John, Tyrion, Varys etc… They changed everybody’s character for no reason at all. Cersei should have died suffering! It’s just so many things lol. But I’m working on letting it go by not watching anymore hbo series. They are terrible at finales. Just watched the sopranos during the pandemic and I was enjoying it but the way it ended made no sense
That's a great comment about being in denial over the ending. Yes!! Thank you! I hadn't consciously recognised it in myself. Like with 'Dune' where I've waited for eons, and now given up on them getting anything right. But less pain with GOT now. I kind of suspect that it's actually deliberate. To disappoint and cause pain. Though now I wish Daenerys had flown down with her dragons and burnt the scriptwriters up, alive. Now that would have been a good ending! Best wishes, and compliments on your insight!
I just tell myself 1st four seasons are 1 show, the rest are another. Sure they have the same names and some surface similarities but it's a totally different show.
Sopranos ending is one if not the best ever ending made. CUT TO BLACK= TONY IS DEAD, show ends.
If you liked the Sopranos you should check out ''The Wire'', you will love it
watch Rome HBO...now that is just perfect
Ultimately I fault Martin for turning an incomplete project over to a studio and not being able to keep up and finish the story during it's production. He still hasn't finished it and likely never will. Screw Martin for sabotaging his masterpiece.
True enough. Books 4 and 5 start to go off the rails in their own right as Martin starts investing in too many insignificant characters. It was like Wheel of Time where whole books were dedicated to setup and nothing of importance happened. Yes, he needed to keep up and finish the story since David and Dan clearly weren't up to the creative challenge, but even if he did, it might have just confused them more or not been of any help from a TV series standpoint
Named it, its HIS, so he can do what ever he want with it, dfespite if we like it or not.
@@thordekeer4757 that one CAN do something does in no way indicate it SHOULD be done.
@@aklimar2208 Nothing wrong with Dragon Reborn, apart from the damn author first diverting from finishing the series, and then go die before it was finished.
@@BPo75 Not sure if you're referring to Wheel of Time or the actual 3rd book in the series with that title, but I LOVED the series up until Jordan's last 3 books which went absolutely no where. Brandon Sanderson taking over to complete the series was the best thing that could have happened.