You're a legend!Thanks for making that challenge idea I wanted to watch for so long. 😊 I thought that the results would be very different from one another,but I guess that typing isn't all there is in order to become a top tier in gen 1. 🤔In the end both weren't using stab moves ,but they did stuggled in similar places in the mid game, even though ghost Clefable felt more consistent,but Gengar was still managed main the lead, I think because it had a great start with night shade with Brock, unlike metronome's randomness. And speaking of randomness, getting explosion twice and self-destruct with metronome was something else 😂😂😂. I wonder if that kind of challenge would work for Geodude and Diglett or for makey?
Yeah, I was surprised they were so close in the end. Neither really benefits from STAB moves - Clefable didn't get any and Gengar's low attack means it should just spam special moves anyhow. I think luck, and Clefable using more Minimize to cover for it's weaker stats made the biggest difference
I know it's a game balance thing, but the idea of Selfdestruct and Explosion being able to miss is kinda nutty. "HOW DID YOU DODGE AN EXPLOSION!" It makes sense that Gengar was faster in the end - it is a speedy boy, and the fact that it was using sleep strats meant that the lower defense wasn't quite as much of an issue as it could have been. But it was closer that I thought it would be, and who knows whether it would hold with a bit of a different luck breakdown. And I think that the takehome message is, typing isn't really that big a factor compared to movepool. Both of these Pokémon are so good because they have access to sleep and they have access to good moves. Gengar's move pool might be shallower but Dream Eater makes up for that in a big way, and Clefable just learns a whole lot of things so it can adapt, and it naturally has Minimize to compensate for its lesser stats. And that made the impacts of the switched typings relatively limited.
The miss on explosion was due to a programming oversight. The game rolls a 1 in 255 number and looks if the value lower than 255 to calculate a miss. The error here is that it should be EQUAL OR LOWER than 255. This creates the possibility that 1 in 255 times, you will get a miss on a 100% accurate move. Swift bypasses the hit check and is to my knowledge the only move that cannot miss in this game (barring intended game mechanics)
@@shadowmanwkp I'm aware of the mechanic. It can also miss if you have lowered accuracy or increased evasion. It's just funny to me that it's even possible, because it brings funny mental images to mind.
It was way closer than i thought. I predicted clef would win actually w/ that hiker and a few other trainers in mind but gengar got really damn lucky and first tried the explosion hiker. Honestly that single lucky win might well have won the game for gengar based on the times between these two. I feel like the 2 after seeing this are like... almost even i'd still think if the luck was perfectly even that clef should've had the slightest edge it just had ungodly bad luck while clearly gengar called upon his friends on the other side with the sheer luck he had. But I mean it really went to show that these mons really wouldn't get screwed if they lost their typings at all though I expected that because at base these are just really great mons especially for in game. I was really surprised w/ dream eater though I didn't think it'd be consistent enough and thought you'd be making a misplay but... you know I suppose the results speak for themselves it just... turned out really necessary w/out his ghost typing and the heals really bailed him out when it'd be crucial. it was really good.
Yeah, that was the main takeaway - both are incredibly good, mostly foregoing rare candies as well as not taking any optional battles. Luck is the main difference. Healing in battle is incredibly useful though, at least on minimum battles, it often makes mons more consistent as long as the heals are enough to cover later damage
What kind of type change can we expect to see next? How about no-flying, pure Normal Duduo/Dodrio? Pure flying Pidgey/Pidgeotto/Pidgeot? Can these mods even allow you to evolve your Pokemon during the challenge?
Yeah, we can evolve in a run with the type change. I have a couple of flying types in Magneton and Wheezing upcoming, since Flying effectively makes it like levitate in some ways, basically eliminating the ground weakness.
Its very funny because when i saw this in my reccomendations I was like "Bruh, obviously Gengar wins, what a stupid concept" and ignored it, but then pondered it for a bit ind wais like "Whait, but does it? Gengar without it's Ghost type kinda falls apart... and Clefable is so well rounded". And i searched this video up again, something i don't think i have ever done. (havent watched it yet, and am very curious how it turns out.)
what did i ever do to you gray ? am sure gary will have say in this!!! pokemon police are coming for you lol :D you mentally scared him for life lol thanks for video tho as always :)
Night Shade working on Starmie is multiple levels of silly in gen 1. It's Ghost type, which means it shouldn't work on a Psychic type due to a gen1 glitch, but since it's a fixed damage move, it ignores the glitch.
As mentioned, I was trying to avoid the score hot for using another TM, since we were going to get Bubblebeam soon enough. But yeah, Watergun was the best play
Not the worst Metronome luck I have seen, but not exactly great. Clefable is an amazing mon in that it is just good enough to do the job most of the time. Quagsire is the same way, as long as you keep it away from those Grass types.
Yeah, but it illustrates the pint that we don't want to rely on Metronome in a race. Watergun and Mega Punch are far more consistent at that stage of the run than Metronome.
I think you going for minimize and sing so much hurt your time with Clefable in the late game. There were several points where tri attack would have done much more against Pokémon with high special, and all of those extra turns setting up didn’t help either. In my opinion, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Psychic, and Tri-Attack would have been a better set later on.
I get where you're coming from, but Tri Attack not having a STAB bonus and badge boosting to improve our weak stats are the issues I see. Granted, it would be worth testing!
@@RBYPokemonChallenges i was just saying in general, sounds like an interesting type pairing, also unrelated but remember to headpat your local Aggron, they deserve it
oh god why did you learn tri-attack? thunderbolt + ice beam is at least Neutral coverage on every type in gen1. really feel like the RNG swung this a LOT in comparison. rock tunnel for example that 256 allowed a fast pass that should have been a stump point. same with sleep chance and turns seemed to favor one side more. also feels like ghost-fable kinda got a bit worse played? early game water gun > mega punch due to miss chance, effective dmg and the fact a LOT of the mon in the area have lower special compared to defense. only potential problem trainer in cerulean for watergun only would have been the grass lass in front of bill and misy herself which metronome is the better choice i feel. Not to mention Fable is a special attacker, even with badge boost tri-attack is just not a great choice, Ice beam + t-bolt is the better option. Icebeam is bad vs fire/water/ice so only really bad vs water cause how rare the rest are. T-bolt bad vs Elec/grss/drgn/ground. Icebeam good vs grass/ground/fly/drgn so it covers Giovani ground typing as good as Psychic, and is better vs Dugtrio. its great against lance as you saw with blizzard but its even better because no miss chance. And it hits Neutral vs Elec which basically doesn't matter in the mid/lategame. Tbolt is good vs Water/ which is great vs water/flying so it covers mid game great up through Loreli then swapping over to Psychic to wreck bruno and agatha. its Neutral vs ice which is why i wouldn't swapt to psychic before then.
I can agree, I should have gone Watergun sooner, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam would have been finale since Blizzard was the play on Lance anyhow, so we could have added Psychic for Agatha and been pretty good. I decided to use Psychic earlier primarily for Koga, who has a huge potential to wall a slow Ghost/Poison type. But Bolt/Beam should be sufficient there
Why is it now Clengar vs Genable? I have no rational explanation but the names not being the same length and stupid mash-ups just irks me. That aside, great video
But he did! His Haunter made her laugh and that was it. Kadabra couldn't attack because of its mental link to Sabrina, so she was effectively beaten and gave up the Soul Badge. `
@@RBYPokemonChallenges Nah, fam, I disagree. It wasn't his Haunter, it was a wild Haunter that followed him into town. The Haunter also wasn't a legal participant in the 1v1 battle, where Pikachu was already chosen, which means Haunter was interference, which should net a disqualification. And lastly, they could've waited another half minute for Sabrina, and subsequently, Kadabra, to stop laughing; Haunter's "prank" wasn't *that* funny.
I think I've never missed so few hypnosis in a run in my life 😅 it's supposed to be 60% acc You know, in the amine metronome always leads to explosion 😉😁 I know sleep is broken, but so many attempts trying to hit a sing in every battle gave me vibes of scott's hypnosis 🙄 clefable does much better with thunder wave than with sing (perfect acc with speed control and a chance for free turn), and with a ghost type it can do much better without double luck move. At least my initial thoughts Btw, your gengar typing to normal didn't affect agatha's gengar types? How do you do that? 🫨
Yeah, I was definitely having some bad sleep luck with Clefable, but Gengar was running god-tier. Metronome go boom - anime approved lol Yeah, this was a first run, so not optimized in any way, so I was likely overly cautious trying to set up sleep with Boo Fairy. I use Gamehook to change my Starter's types directly, so no other Pokemon are affected.
@9:44 "punch her starfish" I am DYING over here 🤣🤣🤣🤣💀💀
Perfect commentary
@@RBYPokemonChallenges And we punch it AGAIN
came here to say that bro hahahahahahaha almost spat out my food!
😂😂😂
Calling it now - clefable gets an early lead due to typing, but gengar wins when you reach the good TMs
Congrats on being first.
We shall see. The Ghost type is completely OP in the early game, for sure
@@RBYPokemonChallenges well, that was an interesting finish
What a terrible call
Would have maybe been better if Clefable and Gengar also swapped color pallets to like in the artwork. Otherwise, this was pretty neat.
Yeah, I didn&t do a ROM Hack, so I couldn&t change the sprites.
Runs like these make me think rare candy's being used in a run should reduce points. Great video!
Yeah, I need to think about that. But not needing them does make a Pokemon seem even better
RBY Pokémon Challenges you legend post right when I need it hope your weekend is going well sir 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Thank Brols! Always great to have you here! Hope you're having a great one as well!
You're a legend!Thanks for making that challenge idea I wanted to watch for so long. 😊
I thought that the results would be very different from one another,but I guess that typing isn't all there is in order to become a top tier in gen 1. 🤔In the end both weren't using stab moves ,but they did stuggled in similar places in the mid game, even though ghost Clefable felt more consistent,but Gengar was still managed main the lead, I think because it had a great start with night shade with Brock, unlike metronome's randomness.
And speaking of randomness, getting explosion twice and self-destruct with metronome was something else 😂😂😂. I wonder if that kind of challenge would work for Geodude and Diglett or for makey?
Yeah, I was surprised they were so close in the end. Neither really benefits from STAB moves - Clefable didn't get any and Gengar's low attack means it should just spam special moves anyhow. I think luck, and Clefable using more Minimize to cover for it's weaker stats made the biggest difference
@@RBYPokemonChallenges Yup I thought that both are going to have a challenging run, but I guess that badge boost and Hypnosis have thier own rules 😂.
The production value is steadily going up and the video idea is pretty nice. Well done!
Thank you, I'll keep trying to improve
Wow gengar is faster, but it got a lot of early gane luck with confuse ray, and vs. the self destructing hiker. Great video!!
Yeah, the luck in that run was kind of insane.
The luck was completely weird with Gengar getting Hypnosis so often and clefable getting hit so often even after minimize.
Yeah, the luck difference was kind of ridiculous, which kind of shows how good these strats are when they work and how bad they are when they fail
I need to see them both as GHOST/NORMAL dual-type.
Let's do it!
I know it's a game balance thing, but the idea of Selfdestruct and Explosion being able to miss is kinda nutty. "HOW DID YOU DODGE AN EXPLOSION!"
It makes sense that Gengar was faster in the end - it is a speedy boy, and the fact that it was using sleep strats meant that the lower defense wasn't quite as much of an issue as it could have been. But it was closer that I thought it would be, and who knows whether it would hold with a bit of a different luck breakdown. And I think that the takehome message is, typing isn't really that big a factor compared to movepool. Both of these Pokémon are so good because they have access to sleep and they have access to good moves. Gengar's move pool might be shallower but Dream Eater makes up for that in a big way, and Clefable just learns a whole lot of things so it can adapt, and it naturally has Minimize to compensate for its lesser stats. And that made the impacts of the switched typings relatively limited.
The miss on explosion was due to a programming oversight. The game rolls a 1 in 255 number and looks if the value lower than 255 to calculate a miss. The error here is that it should be EQUAL OR LOWER than 255. This creates the possibility that 1 in 255 times, you will get a miss on a 100% accurate move.
Swift bypasses the hit check and is to my knowledge the only move that cannot miss in this game (barring intended game mechanics)
Swift and Bide damage can never miss, everythig else has a 1/256 chance at least to miss.
@@shadowmanwkp I'm aware of the mechanic. It can also miss if you have lowered accuracy or increased evasion. It's just funny to me that it's even possible, because it brings funny mental images to mind.
GG on those explosions Teo!
Yeah, that was funny, but hurt the time a bit
pretty unique form of challenge
Thanks fr watching!
It was way closer than i thought. I predicted clef would win actually w/ that hiker and a few other trainers in mind but gengar got really damn lucky and first tried the explosion hiker. Honestly that single lucky win might well have won the game for gengar based on the times between these two. I feel like the 2 after seeing this are like... almost even i'd still think if the luck was perfectly even that clef should've had the slightest edge it just had ungodly bad luck while clearly gengar called upon his friends on the other side with the sheer luck he had. But I mean it really went to show that these mons really wouldn't get screwed if they lost their typings at all though I expected that because at base these are just really great mons especially for in game. I was really surprised w/ dream eater though I didn't think it'd be consistent enough and thought you'd be making a misplay but... you know I suppose the results speak for themselves it just... turned out really necessary w/out his ghost typing and the heals really bailed him out when it'd be crucial. it was really good.
Yeah, that was the main takeaway - both are incredibly good, mostly foregoing rare candies as well as not taking any optional battles. Luck is the main difference. Healing in battle is incredibly useful though, at least on minimum battles, it often makes mons more consistent as long as the heals are enough to cover later damage
Freaky Friday... I mean, surreal Saturday...
Perfect analogy. But which one would you take?
@@RBYPokemonChallenges it was posted yesterday, so...
What kind of type change can we expect to see next? How about no-flying, pure Normal Duduo/Dodrio? Pure flying Pidgey/Pidgeotto/Pidgeot? Can these mods even allow you to evolve your Pokemon during the challenge?
Yeah, we can evolve in a run with the type change. I have a couple of flying types in Magneton and Wheezing upcoming, since Flying effectively makes it like levitate in some ways, basically eliminating the ground weakness.
Good LORD, 13:47 had me LOL'ing
Based how the colors keep changing are you playing on the super gameboy for the snes? Mine does that
It's Super Gameboy color palettes
@@RBYPokemonChallenges sick dude!
That Giovanni Dugtrio is quite legendary
A OHKO beast
Its very funny because when i saw this in my reccomendations I was like "Bruh, obviously Gengar wins, what a stupid concept" and ignored it, but then pondered it for a bit ind wais like "Whait, but does it? Gengar without it's Ghost type kinda falls apart... and Clefable is so well rounded". And i searched this video up again, something i don't think i have ever done. (havent watched it yet, and am very curious how it turns out.)
Fair enough, I like these hypotheticals where it seems obvious at first glance, but then not so obvious once you think about it
You should do sonic boom Scyther (gen 2 event move) on minimum battles. Just need to actually get one lol
That would be fun. I think it does Minimum Battles post-Brock
what did i ever do to you gray ?
am sure gary will have say in this!!! pokemon police are coming for you lol :D
you mentally scared him for life lol
thanks for video tho as always :)
I mean, he's the one always bullying us, and yet we get blamed 😂
i want to see how good a gen 9 clefable is in gen 1, with moonblast cosmic power etc sounds like clefable would smash
I would need to backport moves and typings for it, but maybe eventually
@@RBYPokemonChallenges sounds difficult but you got this xD
Night Shade working on Starmie is multiple levels of silly in gen 1. It's Ghost type, which means it shouldn't work on a Psychic type due to a gen1 glitch, but since it's a fixed damage move, it ignores the glitch.
Yeah, Gen 1 has so many strange mistakes in it
Why are you using mega punch instead of night shade on the rock tunnel hiker?
Because I'm dumb lol. And because either way the strategy comes down to confusion luck and not getting hit by self-destruct.
Can you do a ground/water kingler, that gets access to dig and Eq ( even if just through TM ? )
That would be funny. He's a Skyrim Mudcrab!
Why were you using metronome instead of water gun with clefable on nugget Bridge?
As mentioned, I was trying to avoid the score hot for using another TM, since we were going to get Bubblebeam soon enough. But yeah, Watergun was the best play
@@RBYPokemonChallenges oh sorry I think I missed you saying
Not the worst Metronome luck I have seen, but not exactly great. Clefable is an amazing mon in that it is just good enough to do the job most of the time. Quagsire is the same way, as long as you keep it away from those Grass types.
Yeah, but it illustrates the pint that we don't want to rely on Metronome in a race. Watergun and Mega Punch are far more consistent at that stage of the run than Metronome.
@@RBYPokemonChallenges Yeah, but quickly clearing the early game was what Clefable needed to keep up, and Metronome is the only option.
00:23 false, psychic bestic
I think competitive players would disagree, but for solo runs, I think your right
I think you going for minimize and sing so much hurt your time with Clefable in the late game. There were several points where tri attack would have done much more against Pokémon with high special, and all of those extra turns setting up didn’t help either. In my opinion, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Psychic, and Tri-Attack would have been a better set later on.
I get where you're coming from, but Tri Attack not having a STAB bonus and badge boosting to improve our weak stats are the issues I see. Granted, it would be worth testing!
what if Gengar doesn't have poison typing?
It's God-tier
i feel like Clefable should honestly be a Normal/Fairy Pokemon
No Fairy type in Gen 1 without ROM Hacking, but then I argue it should be Ghost/Fairy type
@@RBYPokemonChallenges i was just saying in general, sounds like an interesting type pairing, also unrelated but remember to headpat your local Aggron, they deserve it
Cursed Clefable vs Blessed Gengar
Basically, nailed it!
oh god why did you learn tri-attack? thunderbolt + ice beam is at least Neutral coverage on every type in gen1.
really feel like the RNG swung this a LOT in comparison. rock tunnel for example that 256 allowed a fast pass that should have been a stump point. same with sleep chance and turns seemed to favor one side more.
also feels like ghost-fable kinda got a bit worse played? early game water gun > mega punch due to miss chance, effective dmg and the fact a LOT of the mon in the area have lower special compared to defense. only potential problem trainer in cerulean for watergun only would have been the grass lass in front of bill and misy herself which metronome is the better choice i feel. Not to mention Fable is a special attacker, even with badge boost tri-attack is just not a great choice, Ice beam + t-bolt is the better option.
Icebeam is bad vs fire/water/ice so only really bad vs water cause how rare the rest are.
T-bolt bad vs Elec/grss/drgn/ground.
Icebeam good vs grass/ground/fly/drgn so it covers Giovani ground typing as good as Psychic, and is better vs Dugtrio. its great against lance as you saw with blizzard but its even better because no miss chance. And it hits Neutral vs Elec which basically doesn't matter in the mid/lategame.
Tbolt is good vs Water/ which is great vs water/flying so it covers mid game great up through Loreli then swapping over to Psychic to wreck bruno and agatha. its Neutral vs ice which is why i wouldn't swapt to psychic before then.
I can agree, I should have gone Watergun sooner, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam would have been finale since Blizzard was the play on Lance anyhow, so we could have added Psychic for Agatha and been pretty good. I decided to use Psychic earlier primarily for Koga, who has a huge potential to wall a slow Ghost/Poison type. But Bolt/Beam should be sufficient there
@@RBYPokemonChallenges : )
I expected gsc Pokémon Challenges but nooo!!!
RBY 4 Lyfe
@@RBYPokemonChallengesThe worst games with the worst graphics and worst mechanics.
Gonna bet on clef. Move pool is king in solo runs, especially early gens
Yeah, the movepool of Clefable is S-tier
Why is it now Clengar vs Genable? I have no rational explanation but the names not being the same length and stupid mash-ups just irks me. That aside, great video
I don't think the different name length should have affected anything too much, but if anything FableGeng suffered from the extra frames.
@@RBYPokemonChallenges oh absolutely, there is no reason for it to bother me other than weaponised autism
You must play Pokémon Yellow Legacy
It's in the plans. Minimum Battles?
@@RBYPokemonChallenges no other way!
Normal Type Gengar has Normal-Same Type Attack Bonus Special-Attacks, and Clerfairy doesn´t have Ghost-Same Type Attack Bonus Special Attacks.
Normal-type attacks are all physical in the early gens
@@RBYPokemonChallenges Oh didn´t remember that XD
All boiled down to stats that Normal Gengar.
Basically, though really without the luck on the Rock Tunnel Hiker, it could have performed significantly worse
You should have nicknamed gengar GengFable instead of FableGeng
I just liked the sound of FableGeng better
33:17 Ash didn't beat Sabrina. I think we watched two different animes.
But he did! His Haunter made her laugh and that was it. Kadabra couldn't attack because of its mental link to Sabrina, so she was effectively beaten and gave up the Soul Badge. `
@@RBYPokemonChallenges Nah, fam, I disagree. It wasn't his Haunter, it was a wild Haunter that followed him into town. The Haunter also wasn't a legal participant in the 1v1 battle, where Pikachu was already chosen, which means Haunter was interference, which should net a disqualification. And lastly, they could've waited another half minute for Sabrina, and subsequently, Kadabra, to stop laughing; Haunter's "prank" wasn't *that* funny.
The next type in Gen ten is going to be the Non-Binary type
It’s weak to all the other types
lol, 🤣
Clefable wins. Ghost is busted.
What are these movesets lol. And why in the world would you save rare candies in a race.
On Minimum Battles, you would absolutely hate to run out of steam right at the Champion. And the Rare Candies were simply never needed.
I think I've never missed so few hypnosis in a run in my life 😅 it's supposed to be 60% acc
You know, in the amine metronome always leads to explosion 😉😁
I know sleep is broken, but so many attempts trying to hit a sing in every battle gave me vibes of scott's hypnosis 🙄 clefable does much better with thunder wave than with sing (perfect acc with speed control and a chance for free turn), and with a ghost type it can do much better without double luck move. At least my initial thoughts
Btw, your gengar typing to normal didn't affect agatha's gengar types? How do you do that? 🫨
Yeah, I was definitely having some bad sleep luck with Clefable, but Gengar was running god-tier.
Metronome go boom - anime approved lol
Yeah, this was a first run, so not optimized in any way, so I was likely overly cautious trying to set up sleep with Boo Fairy.
I use Gamehook to change my Starter's types directly, so no other Pokemon are affected.