If Vulpix/Ninetales don't get any mid-game fire move, have them learn something like Confusion and Psybeam instead (Vulpix already gets Confuse Ray). Maybe Ponyta/Rapidash should learn some of the "kick" moves (Mega Kick, Double Kick, Low-Kick, Jump Kick...) and Growlithe/Arcanine could pbly get stuff like Super Fang, Sword Dance and Rest or something.
Yes vulpix should learn the psychic moves in level up except psychic, growlithe should learn growl, hyper fang and ponyta should learn double kick and rapid ash horndrill. Gyarados should learn fly and ok I guess we can give the horse jump kick too
Here's an inspired idea. Remove Razor Wind from TM02 and give it to Dragonite as a signature Dragon move. Solve two problems with one fix, since Flying doesn't need Razor Wind alongside Sky Attack and Wing Attack
If we're talking about changing those I have to emphasize that many flying types cannot learn Drill Peck or Sky Attack. You *need* to change Razor Wind, a Normal-type move, into a Flying-type move. Remove the charge turn and make it full accuracy OR 100ish damage. Again I really cannot stress enough that Butterfree (& Beedrill/Venomoth), Scyther, OR Dragonite cannot be given Drill Peck as they have no beaks. And all but Dragonite normally can't get Fly. Access to any Flying stab is extremely useful, and I don't feel Wing Attack fits in the slightest on the Bug-types. (It would also be nice for Aerodactyl, which does get brave bird, but only fly otherwise. I am assuming it gets wing attack now though.)
What's more, the current distribution of drill peck has an internal logic: all pokemon that get it have LONG beaks (dodrio, zapdos, fearow). I think this added flavor does something for the world building. At the same time, there should still be pros and cons to spearow vs pidgey vs doduo. If pidgeot gets the best flying type move, something should be done to ensure it doesn't become the "right" choice
I’d love to see that on sheer principle. Razor Wind is just plain terrible anyway so it’s not like anything that learns it would lose anything if it was changed
I mean, the gen 1 games (besides Stadium) didn't show what the move actually did, it didn't show accuracy, base power, effect. All you had was a name, description and a battle animation to go off of. With a name like razor wind and requiring a charge-up turn making it resemble the likes of solar beam and skull bash. I don't blame you for believing that it was a strong move back then.
How about this? Keep your change to Night Shade, and give Psywave the ability of the OG Night Shade. You give Gengar a great move and you make a useless move a purpose.
Worth remembering that Gengar ALREADY had a replacement for Night Shade: Seismic Toss. And competitively Gengar prefers Toss, because not hitting Ghost is way better than not hitting Normal.
@@EinDose in gen 1 both seismic toss and night shade ignore the immunity of ghosts and normal types, the only difference between night shade and seismic toss is that seismic toss has way more pp than night shade
@@EinDose I think they are even, because night shade has less pp, but isnt counterable in comparison to seismic toss. So Gengar actually uses Night shade, because it doesnt need the pp thx to explosion but doesnt want to get countered by snorlax or chansey.
As for the Ghost type - as a kid I always felt like dreameater should have been the strongest ghost power move, while Agatha uses, instead of Arbok, simply a Hypno with that move. Would have been a nice foreshadowing for gen 3, when the Hypno in the forrest abducted that little girl 😮
Having Agatha use a Hypno with Dream Eater sounds interesting to me because I remember in the anime she defeated Ash’s Pikachu without move (it was a finisher, not an ohko, but still) Also having a hypno would allow for more diversity to her team so it’s not all poison-types, but still fits with the “theme” her team has
@@Skullhawk13 Right, but I meant more like the species rather than typing, like Lance and champion Iris having dragon-like pokemon Agatha’s arbok and golbat may not be ghosts, but they at least fit with the vibe (I suppose “vibe” might’ve been a more accurate way to describe it)
I recently, 20+ years after getting the cartridge, completed the pokedex on my physical copy of red. On the team i went through the game with was a Jolteon with a moveset of Thunderbolt, pin missile, doubble kick and thunder wave. I think i can count on one hand the number of times a clicked a moved that wasnt thunderbolt. To me that says a lot.
Not possible to count that on on one hand without using glitches to skip parts. First because of the number of battles you must do before you can even get Jolteon. (Unless you traded one immediately, and even then Brock and two mandatory Hiker's exist.) 2nd because of how many Giovanni battles there are. The gym battle alone has 5 Ground-types. The rival also has a Rhyhorn/Rhydon for the final 3 battles.
Please buff the fossils with how late they are revived they dont really do much except maybe aerodactyl and i think it would be cool if razor wind was turned into aerodactyls signture flying move
@@MageLeaderIncMaybe just have Omanyte and Kabuto early game resurrections then make it so Aerodactyl gets resurrected at Cinnabar to balance it. Also change it so Aerodactyl is resurrected at level 45 and not level 5, since resurrecting it so late in the game and requiring an insane amount of level grinding when it already has a slow level curve means that most people simply aren’t going to use it. Level 45 is pretty on par with the game’s level curve for gym 7 so I think that’s fair.
Real. I got an early Meditite in an Emerald ROM hack once and tried to use it but I got frustrated with still clicking only Confusion at level 20 on a Physical mon like that. Then I did the research and found out that it not only does not learn a fighting STAB until High Jump Kick at level 32 (which is already awful enough by itself), it literally doesn't learn ANY physical attack before then. Best I could do was give it Rock Smash through HM which had 20 base power. Just all around asinine game design.
Even as late as Gen 6, some Pokémon still had mediocre learnsets. However, it is true that it was around Gen 4 that the devs started tackling the problem at its root by simply making sure each and every type had a comprehensive range of moves (early, mid and late game attacks, gimmick moves, utility moves, etc). And then when Fairy showed up in Gen 6, it arrived underdeveloped as well. On the special side, there was no middle ground between Fairy Wind/Draining Kiss and Dazzling Gleam/Moonblast, while on the physical side, there was literally only one move. I fell out of Pokémon after Gen 7 ended so idk if those gaps have been filled yet, please do tell. ❤
Well between nearly losing the entire game entirely during it's development and making a lot of last minute changes to improve it I would say it's miracle we got what we did.
Gen 1 was equal parts forward facing and traditional. For example special being one stat, because traditional JRPG would have attack and defend stats split, but magic was one stat. Hence no special split. There are some things that are clearly just oversights too. there are 100 normal moves, even ones like karate chop and gust that make no sense as normal and should (and were) types otherwise. It makes more sense when you realize that "normal" was originally "beast" type but was changed at some point. Anyways gen 1 is equally as interesting as a game as the story of its development, and the glitches and flaws. It's a beautiful mess.
@@bradlauk1419i always tought Gust was normal because if it was flying it would wreck bulbasaur at route 1. That's so that in GSC pidgey only knew tackle until lvl 9.
So sleep would still be able to last 6 turns, which is still op, but the real issue is faster Pokémon will still be able to resleep you the turn after you wake up, without you being able to do anything. This is why Jynx and Gengar are so good in Gen 1. However, it’s a quintessential Gen 1 mechanic, that would feel wield to not have. The best I think you could do while still maintaining that unique Gen 1ness is to incorporate the sleep clause and have the AI cognizant of it, which seems like a pain to code. Or reduce the PP of sleep moves so that they can’t be spammed as much
Overall, some great ideas here! Really looking forward to playing the final build! Love slam as a physical Dragon move. For Thumder, I think it's safe to move its accuracy to 85% to match fire blast and blizzard. Bite should stay normal imo
I don't really understand why he makes his own fixes while we have official fixes. Many of the randomizers or mods already allow us to use modern movesets and even stuff like fairy type in older gens. Some of the changes he does were already done in the first "patch" the games ever got, which was gen 2 (like adding shadow ball for ghosts or sludge bomb as a higher damage option for poison type). I get why we use gen 1 instead of the remakes for the purpose of nostalgia but why not use the fixes that we got in these games?
@@Nerex7 The danger in copying gen 2 changes wholesale is that gen 1 loses its identity and results in both games feeling too uniform. It would be boring if they both played the same with only visual changes.
I appreciate how much thought and planning you put into these romhacks. I consider Crystal Legacy THE definitive way to play Crystal, I'm anticipating Yellow Legacy will be just as good.
@@EeveeianartTheSpiddlerCome back. There are plenty of good quality of life rom hacks for emerald. Less so for gen 2 and 1. Emerald did a lot of things right
Couple of suggestions: Make Skull bash a rock type move, lower its power to like 80 and give it to Onix instead of Bide. It would make a lot of sense and be more respectable to receive from Brock than Bide. People can still take advantage of not moving on the charge turn, and its a useful early game tm. At 80bp, it becomes a early-mid stage rock move. Even worse than Rock throw really since it takes two turns. At level cap, Onix still shouldnt be able to 1 shot anything that it isnt super effective against. Even with Onix's attack bump (what was it now? like 70?). And then, if you are giving other charge moves a stat increase turn 1, Skull Bash can do +1 Defense. And would fit Brock's Defense motif. Please keep Slam as Dragon! I love that idea! I would like the idea of a Ghost type Bite on Raticate. Im team Ghost Bite lol. I know you dont want to add moves, but if Nightshade is staying as is, then maybe something like Haze or Mist (or some other useless move) can be repurposed as Shadowball. Last resort option. But it does kind of give a best of both worlds effect. For solarbeam, i think just making it grass type fireblast would be better. 1 turn, low accuracy. Grass has a lot of weeknesses, so one turn of doing nothing can be really bad for them. Otherwise, making it increase Special on turn 1 but with a 120power might be better because it'll give a little special defense buff. Razor wind can have a speed increase on charge turn. I think this would also increase crit rate with gen 1 mechanics. Makes it a good moves. Maybe even flying type. Please please please, make Acid have a chance to burn! Lastly, with the trapping moves, you can still switch in gen 1 so its not too horrible. And with sleep, you get access to the pokeflute which is infinite awakenings. Not useful in no item runs but otherwise is a way to balance sleep.
"For solarbeam, i think just making it grass type fireblast would be better. 1 turn, low accuracy. Grass has a lot of weaknesses, so one turn of doing nothing can be really bad for them." While balance wise you're absolutely right, I feel as though solar beam is one of the more iconic moves in the series, especially with its turn to charge. I think it'd be a shame to erase what's unique about it just bring grass in line with other types when it's always been different. "Otherwise, making it increase Special on turn 1 but with a 120power might be better because it'll give a little special defense buff." That's a cool idea. No clue how balanced it is, but it's cool!
@BeyondTrash-xe1vs yea, i agree. Thats why i gave a second option because i kinda feel the same way. But yea, grass types sitting there for a turn doing nothing makes solarbeam almost useless if they are just going to die while charging. They would need that defensive boost in some way.
I'd argue the trappping moves in gen 1 are more horrible since they give the user of the move basically free chip damage and if it's faster and doesn't miss a free ko
I would be very careful about giving Brock a good Rock move. Brock is already really polarizing because of how there isn't a goldilocks zone of difficulty for him, he is either a cake walk or one of the top 10 hardest fights in Gen 1.
Making Slam a Dragon Type move sounds like an excellent idea, if your goal is to give all Types more STAB options: it's reminiscent of Dragon Tail in concept (not in effect) and is the same BP as Dragon Claw, the modern "catch-all" Dragon STAB. Making Razor Wind the Flying version of Razor Leaf sounds like the most fitting option thematically, and, while Flying might not necessarily need this, if you keep its TM-exclusive status, it could be a neat option for those who don't get Drill Peck; alternatively, I guess you could make it akin to Skull Bash, only raising Speed instead of Defense, but that mechanic was not in Gen 1, so that also depends on if you can code it to work that way or not; thematically speaking, this would be the Kamaitachi raising winds on the first turn and then, speedier than before, flying towards the opponent to cut it. The change to Night Shade is also excellent: while my personal preference is for it to be a mid-game BP move (say, 65 BP), Ghost does not have options, this Gen, so it essentially being the ancestor to Shadow Ball without any secondary effect sounds like a good compromise; the "fixed damage" moves were always really wonky, anyway, and we don't need more than one, considering Seismic Toss would still be there.
The changes so far are awesome! But, changing sand attack, kinesis, etc. (non-damaging moves) to damaging moves feels too far for a legacy game IMO. I just finished Crystal Legacy and can't wait for this!!
As someone who grew up with Gen 1 games I'm so excited for Yellow Legacy. Been hardcore nuzlocking Crystal Legacy and it quickly became my favorite Pokemon Rom. Love all the comms you and the team have put together!
You could make Slam a weaker dragon move (80 bp isn't really "weak", especially in gen 1 terms, but I digress) and have Razor Wind be dragon-type Solar Beam? I also think Sand-Attack as Mud Slap is a great idea for early game grounds like Sandshrew. I also think Bite being ghost makes a lot of sense because Lick is already ghost. Anyway, this looks like it's gonna be a lot of fun! Count me in as excited!
Im definitely team Ghost type Bite lol. If licking is considered a ghostly thing, i dont see why biting cant be too. Also, i would love to use Ghost type Bite on a Raticate (assuming Smit updates its moveset with it.)
Bite being Ghost makes a lot of sense... But Razor-wind should be a 75 BP flying type move , Since not every flying type learns Drill-Peck , which is expected since most don't have a Beak..
9 don't have a beak. I think they should all just be allowed to learn Fly. (Still hilarious how Charizard couldnt learn fly in Red/Blue. It can learn it in Yellow)@@yaduvarma9854
I made a romhack long ago for Red (called Hot Red, never released it, just made it for me and my brother to play), I made Ghost-type strong against Psychic-type, and Fire-type Resistant to Ice-type attacks, along with some other changes. I made Egg bomb into Shadow Ball, and Razor Wind into a one-hit X-scissor move bug move. It has a nice slashing animation. I also added Dragon Claw, but I think I removed Fury Swipes for that. Made Gust flying too. And I added Cross chop, but I can't remember which I changed. One of my favorites was giving Fly to be learned to Gyarados, Golbat, Scyther, and a few others.
One thing I hope to see are some TM changes, since a lot of them are either only for 1-2 Pokemon or are totally useless. TM16 - Pay Day is now Light Screen, TM30 - Teleport becomes Night Shade, TM37 - Egg Bomb into Flamethrower, TM41 - Soft Boiled to Thunderpunch, etc.
Apparently how they distributed attacks in Gen 1 was inspired by classic JRPGs like Dragon Quest and you were meant to mostly use Normal type moves (that's why there's so many of them) while moves of other types are your special moves to be used sparingly and tactically. Problem with that of course was that they gave most moves more than enough PP to spam them plus STAB makes them stronger, soon as Charmander gets Ember there's literally no reason to use anything else, but then paradoxically some types just have no viable moves like Bug, Ghost, Dragon and some like Flying do with Drill Peck but distribution of said move is limited to 3 total Flying types.
Love the changes so far, I still think Dream Eater should be final Ghost move and stay at 100 BP. Giving a stab that strong for Gengar I find is fair especially because sleep is needed for it to work. Also maybe give it Exeggutor for a covereage option. It can already learn it GEN 2 onwards so it makes sense to me. Can't wait for this game!
Fire types has a smoother scaling than presented. It’s true that firepunch is a hands only Pokemon move, but the newly added firewheel exists as the bubblebeam og gen 2 (60bp fire move)
Was pondering this topic a few days ago. Strength is usually portrayed with picking up and tossing rocks. You could easily justify a type change from normal to rock I think and it might give some good flexibility to have a third rock move to fill in the middle ground there and give some type options to a lot of mons. And normal is fairly glutted around the Mid/High moves as is, losing out on another is probably fine.
This might be a good option since normal types have Body Slam, which is stronger than Strength and has a decent chance to paralyze the enemy too, vs Strength having no secondary effect
Reeeeeeeally big fan of making Slam into a dragon move! It's basically a signature move of the Dragonite line, as-is, and it's completely overshadowed by Strength and Body Slam as a normal move. Making Night Shade into pseudo Shadow Ball is also fantastic, actually, because ONLY the Gengar line can actually learn it in gen 1, and they don't often have much reason to use it when they have options like Psychic. All of the other changes are really slick, and the idea of buffing Bide a bit is also quite a cool idea, as it also makes the TM for Bide much less of a throwaway-- when compared against Misty's Bubblebeam, Surge's Thunderbolt, or even just Erika's Mega Drain, Bide was always kind of just the worst of the gym leader TMs by a mile, so it'd be great for more defensive mons to have more options (especially if sleep is being migrated to later levels, actually). Bide has good distribution, so making it feel like more of a prize is just really neat. Though, making Brock a bit harder to make up for not having access to Bind, if that's moved to later, would also be great. Solarbeam being effectively 90BP feels like a good, simple fix for its issues, also. Dealing double the damage of something like Flamethrower in a single turn does have some utility for wallbreaking and muscling past mons that'd otherwise heal, which helps to make up for the inherent disadvantages of taking two turns. The fact that it doesn't lose damage in the process feels like it'll be really nice for game balance. Aaand I'm also super happy to see some of my favorite changes from Crystal Legacy carrying over, as well as correcting moves like Gust, Wing Attack, Karate Chop, et cetera. And making recoil moves and multihit moves less terrible via an accuracy bump is also just fantastic for the usability of sooooooooo many mons who are forced to rely on such early on. Also, random, but Pikachu, Onix, Tangela, and Lickitung getting potential dragon-type coverage with Slam? Does AMAZING things for some elsewise very underwhelming mons. Onix then has a bit of extra utility in late game (resists hyper beam, can potentially outspeed, and can hit Dragonair super effectively? A nice mix to feel less overshadowed by Rhydon and Golem). Tangela then feels like it has SOMETHING other than basic normal and grass moves. Lickitung likewise gets some really nice coverage that can also hit rock types (and both then get a move that can hit ghosts). Plus, it means Pikachu can have some secondary coverage that'll fill a role similar to gen 2's Iron Tail, where it then has SOME way of hitting rock types, but then the move has utility later against Lance... or perhaps that'd be a bit much, given Pikachu then potentially counters his entire team? So, Pikachu miiiight need a dragon-type slam taken out of its moveset (perhaps replaced by Body Slam, or something?), if it'd cause problems for balance in the Lance fight, but the other pokemon that might need to have the move cut is Victreebel. It's already perhaps the best grass type outside of Exeggutor, and better poison STAB will already be quite the buff.
I remember discussion about maybe changing the TM list a little bit, and I hope that ends up being possible. There's a few too many that contain moves that like, only one or two pokemon can actually learn (looking at YOU, Softboiled), and sort of defeat the purpose of what TMs should be.
Softboiled was bad with that. I understand it's nice to teach it to Mew, but Mew wasn't supposed to be in the game. So it was effectively just locking a signature move behind a TM, so if you caught a 2nd Chansey, it simply wouldn't get the move.
I feel like the only way that gen 1 moves can work effectively is to just add more moves. Changing so many of the old moves all at once is such a massive change that there isn’t really a way to do it without it feeling no longer like gen 1, so leaving more moves untouched and adding a few gen 2 options could maybe help the “feel” of the old moves stay intact, instead of feeling like a romhack moves-wise.
Heavily agree here. There's so much changing around, just add the fixes the original games already implemented: more moves. It could be that easy. It also keeps moves like Nightshade from being butchered.
@@azjeffs And I get that. The problem is that his current solution feels even less like gen 1, which is his goal, to make it still have that gen 1 charm. If it feels like a fangame, it didn’t come out right.
It wasn't until I played gen 1 again recently that i realised just how inaccessible Flamethrower is- most fire types don't get it until a pretty high level, and if you evolve Growlithe and Vulpix too early, they won't learn it at all
It is such a fun and unique Gen 1 experience to fight Mewtwo (aka. the "last boss" of the game) and your trusty starter Charizard still only can use Ember if you haven't opted to teach it Fire Blast...
A lot of good changes. Turning Slam into Dragon Type sounds good to me. It is utterly useless between all the good Normal type moves otherwise. You might want to limit its distribution in this case. Razor Wind should be Flying type. How about making it raise Attack by 1 stage in the charge turn and deal damage in the second turn. Like Skull Bash does with Defense (also, make sure Skull Bash does actually do that :D
I feel like Rage can be a solid 40 or 50 base power dragon move A lot of mons that learn rage are from the dragon egg group and kind of look like dragons
Repeating from a livestream comment section- Slam to Dragon makes sense to me. Dragon Rage could be given a Super Fang style effect, where it halves current HP - this allows it to always be useful in setting up 2-3 shots in tandem with another move at any point in the game, instead of being overpowered, then mid, then useless. Sand-attack being an accuracy-lowering stall move is iconic and changing it to mud-slap feels incorrect, but I agree that a ground type "bubble" for early game at 20-25 BP is sorely needed. Kinesis, on the other hand, is not so necessary as psychic has plenty of good moves.
Lots of cool changes so far! Excited to see this progress. Question on making Slam dragon type, I assume you cannot just “add a new move” given pretty much exclusively to Dragonite line? Otherwise I’d suggest just making a Dragon Claw or similar move. If changing Slam to Dragon, that may get messy with its distribution to other mons? Perhaps if Razor Wind just has no good suggested changes, repurpose that one to a dragon move? Same issue with distribution though I guess. Just thinking out loud. I trust you’ll find something that makes sense by the end.
@@smithplayspokemonkeeping a dragon type slam on some dragonlike Pokémon wouldve good to offset Dragonite's new power boost, Gyarados, Charizard and Aerodacytl having Dragon type Slam would be cool.
@@smithplayspokemon Sorry, just read this. Now I get why you choose Slam. Much easier to implement and avoid giving Pikachu a Dragon move at Level 20. 😅
Pikachu learns slam would he still learn it at 21 knowing it's a dragon move? I find he should just like learning surf too. Yea my Pikachu learnset gonna be surf, slam, thunderbolt and broken double team for badge boosting
@@smithplayspokemon Would Hyper Beam being Dragon be that game-breaking? Yes it's a powerful normal type move though there's a plethora of normal type moves you can change. That and Hyper Beam being Lance's signature move being a Dragon Elite 4 member makes a lot of sense, plus since you're moving Dragon to physical, it'd be the same as Normal Hyper Beam being physical anyway. Only real difference is that Ghost can be hit and Rock can't resist it.
You should change wrap to dragon type. It would give dratini a low level stab move and the pokemon that tend to learn it are reptilian in appearance (ekans, likitung, etc)
I don't really like the idea of changing everything about a move into a different move but keeping its name. If you turn sludge into sludge bomb, night shade into shadow ball and sand attack into mud slap, just call them sludge bomb, shadow ball and mud slap.
The secondary effects of the moves all stay the same. They're not identical to the modern game moves. For example, Shadow Ball can lower Special Defense, but that secondary effect is not here so calling it Shadow Ball could confuse people.
Razor Wind should get fixed. Change the Accuracy to 100% First turn is a charge. When attacked by a physical attack during charge, the attacker takes damage equal to 1/8 of their maximum HP. In my opinion, this seems like a solid upgrade to the move.
A few other ideas: - Roar and Whirlwind could get repurposed into being actual attacks that deal damage. Maybe Roar could be a Fire-type move with the idea being the Pokemon's fiery roar deals damage. The move is only learned by the Vulpix and Arcanine lines in this game, slap it onto Ponyta too and there you go. Then with Whirlwind, make it Bug so Butterfree and Venomoth are eating something, plus another teachable Bug move would be cool) - Make Psywave into a Night Shade clone, while moving OG Night Shade to Shadow Ball power. Base Psywave is just really bad and also breaks the game, may as well fix it - I think Sonic Boom could be reworked into that mid-power Electric move. Learned by Voltorb and Magnemite lines, normally a pretty useless move, move is described as a shock wave in RSE onward - Razor Wind, just make it another Aerial Ace. Shouldn't be an objectively worse move than Tackle
Making roar a fire move is a really good idea given, as you said, it's only learned by vulpix and arcanine who are both in need of a mid game fire move.
I had a similar idea for razer wind, only make it a fully anti-setup move and give it the high crit rate with skipping accuracy checks, but still takes 2 turns to keep it from being totally broken
Here's some of my own suggestions, yes, I hate the overabundance of Normal moves in Gen 1: Strength could be reworked into a Rock type move so the type has more options, and more Pokemon get a Rock coverage move. Maybe 65 BP and 100% accuracy, but no flinch, so that Rock Slide does more damage and has flinches but is less accurate. The animations always show it throwing a rock, so it kinda fits. Razor Wind should a Drill Peck alternative, that's more spreadable to all Flying Pokemon, as they all have Wings. Maybe 70-75 BP, no charge turn. The move would have a reason to exist, and would give Aerodactyl and Pidgeot a good Flying STAB while leaving Drill Peck as a better alternative for the Pokemon that get it. All get good STAB, but some get a cool exclusive move. Skull Bash could be reworked to be Rock, and up Defense, but not special. The Pokemon is preparing for an attack, probably hunched in, so upping defense helps the move be not completely useless. Some of my favorite suggestions from the video and the comments: - EGG BOMB SHOULD BE GRASS. Exeggutor gains nothing from Egg Bomb as is. It would also be funny for Chansey to get it (like it needs the help anyway). Slam is such a nothing move that making it Dragon would actually give it a reason to exist. If Pikachu and Raichu REALLY need a random normal move, they could get Take Down. Raichu gets Submission, so it's not super weird. - Making Ghost Special and Dragon Physical is a great move, it makes more sense given the Pokemon in this gen. I really like @PixelPenguin77 suggestions for Ninetails, Arcanine, & Rapidash, maybe give them cool coverage as they wait for Flamethrower. - @luketettelbach1823 suggestion for Vicegrip is AWESOME, make it BUG TYPE, KINGLER COVERAGE, KINGLER SWEEP LESGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Love the work you’re doing with Gen 1 man don’t give up and keep being creative and inspired by fun ideas! the first 3 Gens are my childhood so I’m so excited to see a romhack that still hits close to home but only improves upon the adventure. Crystal Legacy was great!
Really excited for Yellow Legacy after how great Crystal Legacy was. Are there any plans to add the already caught pokeball symbol for wild encounters? That would be a nice little QOL improvement!
I know it's completely unlikely but I'd love it if you kept Bug and Poson type moves being super-effective against each other. Please help the Bug type out
I think he did say in the initial video on the subject that that was one of the oddball quirks of Gen I he wanted to keep, like the Badge Boost glitch or the Hyper Beam recharge glitch.
Looking at the original moves. I think that the designers wanted each Type to also have their own "gimmicks" or "style" of fighting alongside their type advantages and disadvantages. This philosophy of their designs is what made them so bad as the two types of battle systems became incompatible with each other. The game's dialogue focused so much on the type chart that kids were trained to do the same. And then of course there were the glitches, like Ghost-type being weak to Psychic or forgetting certain type interactions such as the Gengar line also being Poison type (which is ALSO weak to Psychic).
I like Slam as Dragon @ 70 bp, if we can get dragon-type Thrash @95 Bp. Consider, you could let the dragonite line learn both, while allowing pokemon like Gyrados, Charizard, and Nidoking to have one or the other. It also works well with Dragon being physical.
Hmm thrash being dragon type does seem a little more fitting seeing as gyarados learns it. Could sorta be like outrage. Although removing that move from others (can only think of nidoking) puts me off a little
@calebrobinson6406 Nidoking can keep it. He's dragon-ish enough and it would make him even cooler. I say give Gyrados and Nidoking Thrash, and give Charizard and Seadra Slam. The only other Thrash users are Primape, Jynx, and Marowak, none of whom really need it imo.
Thoughts: * Razor Wind = Flying type Razor Leaf * Dragon Rage = give it the Nightshade treatment, remove the fixed damage and put it in the 60-90 BP range. Also, Hyper Beam is also kind of a signature move of Dragonite, maybe HB could be Dragon-type? * Stomp as a weaker Ground type move perhaps? It has good distribution and gives some mons much needed STAB and/or coverage. *Skull Bash and/or Take Down as Rock-type moves, perhaps?
I think status moves should become Bird type. Otherwise trainers with smart AI will never choose a status move against a Rock or Ghost type pokemon, and that can also be exploited. And you'll never see the types of the moves in game so you wouldn't know it's a weird type anyway.
@@willowparker-ct3pqI can't take too much credit. Smithplays discussed that idea in a previous episode. But since he changed his mind and went with normal, I figured I might as well bring up a negative and see if that changes his decision or not.
@CrashJetTech Yes. But it also means that Lorelei's Slowbro won't use Amnesia or Withdraw against your Gengar to set up against your other pokemon. Her Dewgong will never use rest. Koga's Venomoth will never use Double Team. It's less useful than the old exploit, but still is beneficial sometimes, like if you want to heal your pokemon without the risk of set up.
@@Alienldr Slowbro wouldn't use a Bird type Amnesia against Gengar or Rock types anyway, since it has Psychic and Water moves which the AI would see as better. Dewgong using Rest doesn't actually help Lorelei set up at all, on top of the fact that Lorelei's Dewgong in Yellow has a unique method of move selection. Making status moves Bird type also risks the case where your pokemon resists all of their actual attacks. Like a Starmie against Slowbro would cause Slowbro to endlessly use a Bird move if it sees Water and Psychic aren't very effective. I think it's much more important to avoid exploits where the AI is literally incapable of making progress, even if the new version can still be predicted and played around.
Do you have a source on this? I'm really interested in seeing the list of moves as originally thought out. That would give a lot of insight. I bet a lot of moves were cut that wouldn't be used by a lot of pokemon. There is just 1 line of ghosts and 1 line of dragons, so it makes sense to cut those moves first.
Razor Wind is based the Kamaitachi, a youkai which is usually related to the cold wind (ice), stealth attacks (dark) and speed (flying), so u may give a buff on speed or evasion (or both). By the way this kind of moves like Solar Beam, Skull Bash, Razor Wind could improve if u give them 2 buff stages instead of 1 on its charging turn, it doesn't have to buff the same stat and that would make the move worth to use, so u dont have to give them a massive amount of power.
What if you made razor wind a multi-hit move, 1 (87%) or 2 hits (13%)? It'd be cool if you added a dragon move (dragon breath) instead trying to make slam into one. The chance to paralyze would be powerful in this gen. I like idea where bide gets buffed!
Dragon Rage can be Dragon Breath but with 50 base power and no paralysis. It's not resisted by anything if Gyarados gets it early so it retains its early game dominance, but taking off the damage cap would make it kinda useful late game when dealing with Lance.
@@12triproberts Bite is normal type in gen 1 so it can't hit ghosts and would be resisted by rock types. Having a move not resisted by anything would feel powerful but wouldn't be better than getting STAB or 2x.
Not bad. Still feel a few changes to some move types might be needed… ideas: 1. Not sure why Constrict can’t be Rock type. Becomes basically Rock Tomb that way. 2. Another Rock type move idea is Barrage. Right now it’s just on Exeggutor but it’d be a neat early Rock move. Razor Wind - How about making it Flying Type Swift/a precursor to Aerial Ace? It bypassing accuracy entirely to strike makes it quite nasty. Wrap - Make it Grass Type Clamp/Fire Spin?
My favorite fix to Razor Wind is to do similar to what Blue Kaizo did, make it a 90 BP move, to charge turn, and high crit. That being said, BK limits the mons that can learn it to basically only flying types, and even then not every flying type gets it.
honestly, i prefer having bite be ghost time and night shade be a fixed damage move; this effect is very much unique to it and seismic toss in this gen and it would personally throw me off way more than having bite be super effective against psychic. Also, idea for dragonite: make razor wind dragon type ! and have it kinda like a dragon type slam. There is precedent to having wind based moves be dragon type with twister, and having dragonite learn it upon evolution would be pretty cool. If anything, at least like make it flying type, this move is currently a travesty despite having a cool name and that's sad. Though a realise having an 80BP dragon type attack be a tm to be strange. You were talking about making rock throw a tm so maybe replace it with that ? cool ideas for moves though !!
So there's a lot of Gen I moves that just suck but have a very nostalgic ring to the names. I once made a Firered hack where I gave these moves significant spots in movesets and that really gave the game a more 90s feel for me. Some of my changes: - Skull Bash: I always loved the name of this move. I made it Rock's Double Edge. In Firered this works well with Rock Head but it's still extremely powerful without. - Razor Wind: Since the name is so close to Razor Leaf I just made it Flying Type Razor Leaf. Really cool move for the Bug/Flying types that lack Flying stab. And I feel it fits Golbat because of Gen III Air Cutter. I put both Razor Leaf and Wind in FR to 75 bp but that's unnecessary in Gen I. - OHKO moves: they sound so cool, but they're so bad... - I made Horn Drill Gen III Stone Edge and made it Rhydon's signature move. But you could make it Ground since it's used for digging and the Nido's could use it as well. - Guillotine: This move just screams Bug type to me. I made it Bug Stone Edge, but in Gen I it makes more sense to mirror Megahorn. This one really gives Pinsir, Kingler and Scyther something to work with. - Fissure: Not sure about this one in Gen I. It's cool as a special Ground move in my hack, but you don't have a phys/spec split. As for the Dragonite problem. Dragon Rage could be Gen I Outrage. But Slam as Gen I Dragon Rush is also a cool idea. The move is really associated with Dragonite in Gen I anyway. Why not both? Gives you a choice of which drawback is worse: locked into Dragon Rage with confusion of 75 acc of Slam.
Sand-Attack as Gen 1 mudslap is a really cool idea. Not sure how to feel about Slam as dragon move though (or bite as ghost, though your reasoning makes a lot of sense), but this is probably easier than making a new move I guess?
If the idea is staying true to Gen 1. Shouldn't we try to play to the idea that they initially wanted each type to have a distinct play style. So poison for example was weaker but had a higher chance of causing status effects. Maybe the status effects need boosting instead of base power?
Gen 1 was pretty messy when you think about pokemon competitively but if you think in themes, it got a lot of things right. There ghost moves are pretty much stereotypes on what ghosts do. Same goes for bug moves of which the only deadly aspect is poison, just like in real life. Any bug sting isn't too bad - it is the poison that makes some of them dangerous. Weaknesses were also mostly based on either logic or themes. Psychic being weak to the 3 biggest fears of humans of that time (bugs, ghosts and being added in gen 2: the dark) shows that too. Fighting being strong against rock type comes form karate masters chopping bricks. There was little balance or thought here, just gimmicky themes that fit a more role-play like scenario. I also get why Ghost type is underwhelming in its attacks in gen 1. There is only Gengar's evolutionary line. That line is meant to utilize its good special attack stat while ghost is a physical type. Even with a physical move, I doubt any Gengar would run it. The rest of them are kinda gimmicky moves. Lick and Confuse Ray do status effects, annoying things that ghosts do while Nightshade has a static amount of damage depending on the level and it's type actually doesn't matter much as it cannot be very effective or use the STAB. Recoil on most fighting moves makes sense when you think about it. Ever tried to punch or kick something? You take damage too. I could go on and on, my point really is that from a gameplay point of view, it's terrible. And we know that because we know a lot better after decades of gaming. If you look at it with some realism, some role-play and fantasy elements that were more common back in the day - it makes a lot of sense why gen 1 is what it is.
yeah but they could have leaned into that while making it balanced. Like if you want to give fighting moves recoil why not make them stronger than typical moves? That stregthen both the identity and the balance. Or the fact they clearly didn't think through charging move, thinking that solarbeam was a flashy move at 100BP not realizing it effectively has 50. The move could have been really amazing and set grass apart. Although they also didn't understand the implication of their crit mechanic so razor leaf ends up being rather strong instead so that works out =p point is yeah they mostly cared about themes but having poor balance also detracts from that and a lot of poor balance decision clearly stem from a lack of understanding of their own game system rather than a conscious decision to focus on realism. Also the person who designed razor wind in particular... tbh I have to believe they were fucking with us there nobody can design a move so poorly without realizing xD
Honestly? The only thing I desperately want to see is a slight stat change to Hitmonchan. When it comes to Pokemon that I feel were done dirty Hitmonchan FEELS like he was done the dirtiest. Hitmonlee is a powerhouse for damage and his signature moves all play to his stats strengths...However, Hitmonchan feels like he was kind of wronged? A simple swap of his attack and special stats would allow for his elemental punches (Which really do feel like his signature attacks) to do some real damage and make him a more 'defensive' option of the Hitmon line (which plays into his later design philosophy that his defense is higher than offense to evolve into a Hitmonchan from the Tyrogue line) and kind of warrant him being on a team as a specially defensive and elemental covering fighting type...Which considering his very limited level up move pool has half physical, half special (with one of those three physical moves being reliant on damage done to you and the other two are 'okay' moves with 85 accuracy) it feels as though that is what he was meant to be.
Razor Wind is such a cool name for a move, its gotta be stronger. How about a 2 turn, high crit rate Flying type attack? Sort of a high risk, high reward move for glass cannons like Scyther?
Hearing that all status moves were made normal type, my only concern is if that makes normal types immune to status from them. I'm not 100% on gen 1 mechanics, but I do know that pokemon cannot be statused by at least an attacking move of the same type as them. This was a big upset for gen 1 competitive when it was discovered because normal types were immune to body slam paralysis. Again not 100% sure if that carries over to status moves, but worth looking into.
I like the Slam idea a lot. Always felt like a nothing move to me. For Razor Wind, you could make it an equivalent to Drill Peck for non-beaked flying types like Scyther, Butterfree, Dragonite, Charizard, Aerodactyl, Gyarados, etc. Or even a bit weaker with a flinch chance or higher crit rate?
soo, i know the limitations but: you will make a battle tower like for post game? there's nothing but mewtwo; it would be interesting if had a post game fight with jessie & james, where it would be shown that they would leave this life of crime and the region after the fall of team rocket and realize that it wasn't cool and so on, just like etto, it would explain why they don't appear in gen 2 even though the team returns
Before I start watching the video let's still give kudos for the devs making this franchise in the first place. The amount of work to make all these moves must have been such a time consuming task. But with that said we can always do better. Let's see those improvements!
You could turn Razor Wind into a flying version of Slash (no charge, less BP), maybe a flying version of Thrash/Petal Dance (high BP, you keep attacking, but you get confused), or maybe a flying type Brick Break that removes Reflect / Light Screen / Mist (because you "cut" the barriers with your RAZOR attack??). For a mid-BP Fire type, I feel like Fire Punch still leaves some pokémon like Ponyta, Vulpix and Growlithe with no options... Would it be terrible if you made Poison Gas into what you did to Smog, and move Smog to a Fire type, around 55-60 BP, that does an extra thing like lowering accuracy, eating PP or some random stuff like that? Maybe even a flinch. For Ghost, what if Dream Eater becomes Ghost? You could do some crazy stuff like giving it 60 power and a 40-ish% chance to put the target to sleep?? What I don't like about this is that it breaks the SLeep / Dream Eater combo, but was it that good to begin with? For Dragon, maybe Thrash can become similar to Outrage? And maybe Comet Punch can be a weaker Dragon Claw? And what if you give some other pokémon Dragon type, like maybe Kangaskhan and Seadra? For Rock, what if you make Sharpen a Rock type move that works similar to Power-Up Punch (little BP + Atk boost)? Or similar to Flame Wheel (mid BP + Speed buff) to try and make Rock pokémon go for some setup?
Eggbomb as grass feels odd to me, but maybe I could get used to it. I would definitely have to always double check that one from your information if it was the case. Maybe have a secondary effect like high crit or chance to lower defense or maybe even paralyze
@@12triproberts - I think with its impressive base 5 attack, any physical class move is essentially useless on Chansey, Egg Bomb being grass would be a more useful unique move to Exegutor essentially a grass fire blast, and it gives an extra option for Chansey who just gets nothing out of Normal moves.
I said it on one of the Livestream vids, but Razor Wind as a Bug type move exclusive to Butterfree and Venomoth makes the most sense. Hell, if you wanted to get crazy, you could make the TM useable on the likes of the legendary trio, but honestly i like it being exclusive to the butterfly and moth, to give bugs some variety instead of just being Cut+Twinneedle all the time.
- I still think that making Bite a "Ghost" type move is good. Is it possible to change the text for where it says Bite is a "Ghost" type, maybe you could just change the text to a "???" type. I still think making Bite a Ghost type move is a good idea. - You mentioned about making some status moves Bird type, so they ignore the glitchiness of Good AI. Because as you are suggesting it, Gengar (who is really good) could still cheese the AI, because they won't use normal status moves against it anymore. - Razor Wind. Make it one turn. You did that for Sky Attack. If Razor Wind was one turn, it'd be viable. It's such a bad move that no one is going to MISS it taking two turns. Razor Wind has few fans and those that do it like it, like it for its potential. Not what it is. Also, Razor Wind could become a Dragon type move. Why? Twister is a Dragon type move and it really should be a Flying type. So if you want to give other PKMN a Dragon type move, one turn Razor Wind is there. Even if you don't make it Dragon typing because Gen 1 doesn't need it, it could still become another decent Normal or Flying type move.
I like the idea being dragon type like twister. Gives some diversity. And a downy option than giving slan that treatment. Just change who can learn razor wind, vs spam that can be learned by pikachu onix and others.
Opponents not using status moves against Gengar wouldn't be the cheese. The cheesiness comes from opponents only using status moves infinitely because of type effectiveness. Agility against poison types is probably the most notorious infinite status move use in gen 1. Makes a lot of Pokemon totally free to battle against with a Pokemon with the right type. What do you think if they made razor wind the setup fail safe move. Ignores accuracy checks and always crits, but remains a 2 turn move so it won't be too broken. I think that'd be a neat alternative. Would be happy with it being Flying or Dragon type if he desired the change
@@Chronoflation I see what you're saying about Razor Wind. A 2 turn move that's guaranteed to hit and crit. That could work. The only reason why I'm not sure about the change is because most folks don't use 2 turn moves because they're hard to justify. Even now, in Yellow Legacy, to justify Solarbeam being a 2 turn move, they had to give it 180 base power. So in order to make Razor Wind compete with that... you have to make it like... 150 or 160 base power. You can't make it 180, because it will always crit and thus be better than Solarbeam, which would invalidate that move again. I like the idea of it always hitting, but Solar Beam has 100 percent accuracy, which is pretty close to always hitting. Not the same, for sure, but the bypassing accuracy only counts in case of Sand Attack, Smokescreen and Double Team. And we're in Gen 1. So I don't know if the accuracy bypass is such a good bonus for it. Only in Gen 1. In any Gen after Gen 1, your changes to Razor Wind would be totally solid. Also - and I don't know how this part works - but can Swift miss due to the Gen 1 miss glitch? Because depending on how that works, it might not even be possible to code in a move that can't miss. But then again, a stronger Swift that always crits? That could be useful in its own way. So it's a good suggestion for sure. Depends on the coding of Gen 1. But that would be a good choice for Gen 3 and forward, where always critting would be useful in a game where the crit formula isn't broken and in a game where evasion moves are more common and there are abilities that also help PKMN dodge moves.
It feels less invasive to me to add moves from gen2 like shadowball in the place of less used/needed gen1 moves then to change the mechanics of well known moves like nightshade
Razor Wind can just be the flying type version of Razor Leaf, though I'm confused as to why it's OP for Cut to increase likely hood of crit than it is for either of these moves.
There's the fact Gen 1 crits work different to every other Gen. Cut's an HM meaning it can be used over and over and a lot of Pokemon get it. For game progression, there'd be no reasonable way to limit the distribution of it.
Some ideas: - Make Slam and Thrash Dragon type. Then give Dragonite Thrash. OR instead of this Thrash idea, just make Hyperbeam Dragon type perhaps?? - Make Comet Punch and/or Mega Punch Fighting type. Hitmonchan gets a bit shafted since a majority of Gen 1 fighting type attacks are kicks, chops and throws. - Remove Fire Spin’s trap effect, then boost its damage to make it the mid-game fire move instead of (or along side with) Fire Punch. - Make Bite Ghost type. If Lick is ghost, I can roll with Bite being ghost too. On top of this, give Bulbasaur line and Charmander line access to Bite, as Squirtle line gets it. Since they’re all reptiles and reptiles often bite, it makes sense for all starters to get Bite. Also, it would give the starters a decent anti-Psychic/Ghost option. On that note, maybe give Pikachu access to it too. The more checks to those types, the better. - Give Pikachu Learnset access to Low Kick in the early game for Brock. Also, MAYBE give Pikachu access to all elemental punches just for fun. (Pikachu with boxing gloves on IS one of the more iconic Gen 1 moments that the anime gave us, after all.) - Make Dizzy Punch GHOST type. Now hear me out. Since it is exclusive to Kangaskhan and Professor Oak’s Kangaskhan is infamous as a Ghost-killer despite its normal typing (which is why it gets Scrappy Ability in later gens), this can be the Gen 1 explanation as to how it gained its infamy as such. While also being a strong anti-Psychic/Ghost option. Also, confusion status works well thematically with Ghost type anyway.
I will give some elaborated sugestions, don't know if you gonna read but here we go: To start, some conservative sugestions that make the moves still in the simple way of gen 1. - Cut: I feel like without crit it is in a weak spot when put by side with gen 2. You could give it some effect that bug type moves have, like a chance to poison. - Fire moves: you realy need a mid tier move. Since you have the "no fist" problem, maybe you should nerf flamethrower to 80 and maybe leave firespin to be the "late game" fire move (maybe with a buff) - Solarbeam: 180 is to weird, in theory stronger than hyper beam, and in pratice still weaker than Razor Leaf. Please don't do that lol. I aways see it and hyper beam as similars, just inverted. Why don't jus make Solarbeam the grass type version? Maybe put it as 130 power 95% and recharge (fair the accuracy since no good secundary effect in comparison with Fire Blast/Blizzard). - Sand Attack/Kinesys: I love the mudslap aproach, but seems to much "gen 2". And Sand Attack aways feel like Pidgey move, it would be weird to have in route 1 a damaging ground type move. I think that with Dig at 70 it is ok to not have a weaker move. And Kinesys with better accuracy is enough. - Ghost moves: make Dream Eater Ghost so you have a coverage against Psychic in TM. Now to the less conservative aproach I would say - Cut: You could make it something like the Constrict in bug type, make its power less but with a seccondary Def drop. Like Rock Smash in futures generations. - Fire moves: Just make Firespin the "Fire Bubblebeam". Dont' need to be a trap move, and maybe the speed drop makes sense with the theme. Or even an attack drop to fit the "burn". - Solarbeam: Instead of nothing in the first turn, make it as "Synthesis". It fits grass (as Mega Drain heals), and make for some interesting utility. - Sand Attack/Kinesys: If make it like Mud Slap, them give Pidgey other accuracy move, like Flash. - Razor Wind: If Sky attack will be flying "Fire Blast", make Razor Wind as flying "Hyper Beam", or even like my conservative "Solar Beam". Since Gust is flying it make no sense to it still be normal. - Dragon moves: I like Slam. But as the only move, Dragon will cap at 80 BP, 120 with STAB. Why I would use Slam instead of something like Fire Blast with seccondary effect? Maybe Dragon Rage 60 bp and Slam 95 bp? So you make Dragonair usefull until evolution. - Trap Moves: It is strong but painfully slow. Make that it lasts less turn but doing more damage, so we don't need to wait that Wrap stacks for so long. Just do the damage right away in two or 3 turns.
Can you pleassseeee give Vaporeon, the BUBBLEJET Pokemon, Bubblebeam via level up? Also what if Razor Wind was the special, flying version of Leaf Blade?
@@12triproberts Tangela doesn’t learn Vine Whip?! I assume you mean Razor Wind? Because yes - I agree. Wasn’t Razor Wind Scyther’s signature move in the anime? I remember being so confused it wasn’t Flying type. Made sense with Scyther’s second type.
You can make solarbeam like fire blast and hydro pump. One turn move with 125 base power and 85 accuracy so that the grass types will have a strong stab move.
I like some thoughts for sure. I will say razor wind being flying makes since. However I'd hate suggesting a name change, but maybe making it Razorgem(or another stone like name) and giving it the rock type would be different. For Dragons, I'd say instead of slam, make Hyper Beam a Dragon move. Especially since Lance uses it a ton on his Dragons. Granted, allowing tons of pokemon to learn it would be tricky, though, being dragon instead of normal. I like the sand attack becoming a gen 1 mudslap would be cool. At least it has another damaging move. Also, giving firepunch to electabuzz would be cool as a later learn set move.
Razorwind as a flying type mid-end game move would be nice or a as a move for birds that do not learn drill peck and so much more, like, there are so many ways you could use this. My best idea is, use it as a discount tailwind. It raises the users speed stat by 1 or 2 and then adjust damage accordingly. EDIT: You could also make it the lacking 60 BP ghost type move, except stat boost like ominous wind.
Tri attack should be a dragon move. Dragonite is seen on stormy nights aka rain thunder and fire. Would make them seem mythical as a whole Skull bash probably a rock type move with strength so you can show how hard rocks with more coverage Mud slap types worh kinesis and sand attack would be great. I'd add them early on for abra so we don't need to grind for it Splash/hop I'd make a water version of mud slap as a way to show how magicarp survived so long off of luck and not make it a grind fest. Oh and early exp share system so you can team grind
I never understood how gust was a normal move. It would have been a great early stab move for flying types Probably change strength to fighting. Or even rock if you want to give a move that move rocks into a rock move. Would be a great stab move. Cut to bug always a good option. Let's move it to emerald legacy automatically as well. Bite as ghost would be cool overall. Give more variety to the move Leech life I'd change to a poison move. Hear me out. With Zubat being the poster child of this move. It would be a better stab move and the move sounds like it poisons you Edit. Pay day should be a good rock move as you are literally throwing money aka minerals at people. Or ground for coverage.
"Probably change strength to fighting. Or even rock if you want to give a move that move rocks into a rock move. Would be a great stab move. " Changing Strength typing is a massive change to the game since so many people learn it. It will completely change so many math ups and the move curve of whatever type it goes too. Plus with cut being bug, strength being normal is no longer redundant.
@@BeyondTrash-xe1vs i mean that's a good thing. Give more variety to the pokemon and allow for a lot more combinations. Imagine Machamp with strength it would be so good as we do get a trade one Plus it gives a bit more balance to move sets with how op the abra line is and moving rocks is literally what we use it for so it's not a far reach.
@@BeyondTrash-xe1vs yeah but it's harder to think of moves in gen 1 to change due to how limiting it is. Gen 3 I already have a lot of ideas of what moves to give those pokemon but yellow is first. Adding more to the less used types would make the overall game more fun.
Normal already has Body Slam which is slightly stronger and paralyzes and you get it way earlier than Strength. If the coverage is too much, he can always remove it from some Pokemon
Not sure if this has been suggested for Razor Wind, but what about keeping it a 2-turn move and on the first turn you get a critical hit rise. Then there's more risk-reward to it's accuracy as you could have a 160bp move after crit or nothing 25% of the time. Though if you miss, you still have the crit boost for other moves.
If the goal is to keep the feel of Gen 1 like you did with CL, you need to be careful. The jank mechanics are what make it Gen 1, and changes like Nightshade (and the implied fix to the Ghost-Psychis interaction) come really close to getting changing the core feel.
man, I remember back when I would use our Game Shark to make any pokemon appear in the wild and be caught, make any items happen, and also make every pokemon have learnset progression like a starter pokemon. This is like the beefed up version of what I used to do and it sounds so fun.
Quick question, is the Kanto Expansion for Crystal Legacy that you mentioned in the release trailer cancelled because of the Yellow Legacy game, or is work continuing on that simultaneously?
One thing I think has been necessarily lost in newer gens where there are hundreds of Pokemon and moves and was never fully implemented well in earlier gens because, well, it's gen 1, is each type having its own unique fighting style influenced by its moves. Like fighting type moves being high risk, high reward with recoil, or poison types focusing on damage over time with low base power on moves but chances to lower defenses and inflict poison. Making sure that each type has a decent early, mid, and late game option which all function more or less identically isn't a bad idea from a balance perspective, but it does feel like it flattens out the experience of using Pokemon of different types. I think it would be much more interesting to build the moves out from some theme of what it means to fight using grass or bugs or flying
In theory that is a great idea, but in practice it feels almost impossible to balance out 15 different types so that each feels unique and still balanced. Fighting having a cool "High Risk, High Reward"-idea is cool but extremly useless if Fighting moves are so bad no one ever uses them.
Personally think making Bite a Ghost move would be a really great balance change, the only issue is it looks so wrong type wise but pretty much functions the same.
For Bide, I think boosting defensive stats is a good idea Like the first turn (or, turns) you can’t attack your opponent but your defenses are buffed so you can take a hit more easily, then after you attack your stats revert to normal, kind of like Stockpile and Spit Up
Razor Wind is a tough one. It obviously should be flying type, I don't think there's much room for discussion there. This also gives it an opportunity to fill in as a stronger stab flying move for Pokémon who don't learn drill peck nor sky attack such as Butterfree, Venomoth(not STAB), Farfetch'd and Golbat. The move in its modern incarnation has two key features: It takes two turns, and it has increased crit chance. I think at least one of these traits must survive unless you are willing to forgo its identity. Butterfree, Venomoth, and Golbat are all fast enough that an increased crit move would guaranteed crit. I think this is the trait that should stay. It helps the move stand out, and the idea of attacking with "razor-sharp winds" makes me feel as though the crit chance fits. I think the move should see a major decrease in power, however. Personally, I'd put it at 35 or 40 BP. This will make it a solid ultimate flying move for Butterfree, Venomoth, and Golbat. Butterfree only has gust otherwise, which is far too weak. Venomoth doesn't even have a flying move, and while it may not be a flying type, it does have wings and fly. It's ridiculous for it to not have a single flying move. Farfetch'd only has peck and fly. Fly is comparable, however. But it being an HM and a two turn moves does make them notably distinct. Additionally, Farfetch'd has become synonymous with critical hits, with its signature item the leek. I think this fits nicely into its character. Golbat will have a solid flying move in wing attack already, but this could serve as a step up from that. It won't make a notable difference for the legendary birds (and Aerodactyl) since they already have good stab in Sky Attack. There are a few things to consider though. First and foremost, there are far more Pokémon that learn Razor Wind. It's a completely unnecessary flying move for the Pidgey line which already has gust, wing attack, and sky attack. It would add a powerful stab flying option to Dragonite which could unbalance it. It's arguably already redundant for Farfetch'd. Then there's the big issue of all the Pokémon who aren't flying type that learn it. I don't think it's unreasonable that an attack based on wind should be flying type, but giving a powerful flying attack these Pokémon greatly changes the balance of the game. If it's possible to remove moves from the movepool, then I believe it would absolutely have to go from Kabutop's and Venusaur's movepool. That's my idea for Razor Wind. TLDR: My idea for Razor Wind is a 35 BP flying type move with increased crit chance. This serves to give a strong flying type stab to Pokémon who lack drill peck and sky attack.
The way I treat razor wind in my edits is flying type slash, but due to Gen 1’s crit mechanic I can see that being an issue. I’ve also seen someone say to make it like swift. Maybe Sandslash can learn pin missile to give it coverage against grass.
If Vulpix/Ninetales don't get any mid-game fire move, have them learn something like Confusion and Psybeam instead (Vulpix already gets Confuse Ray). Maybe Ponyta/Rapidash should learn some of the "kick" moves (Mega Kick, Double Kick, Low-Kick, Jump Kick...) and Growlithe/Arcanine could pbly get stuff like Super Fang, Sword Dance and Rest or something.
This is a great idea. Not every Pokemon of an element needs the same moveset.
@@12triproberts yup, that's definitely the idea (+pbly improve its special stat)
I like the first two suggestions! Super Fang on Growlithe could also work
Yes vulpix should learn the psychic moves in level up except psychic, growlithe should learn growl, hyper fang and ponyta should learn double kick and rapid ash horndrill. Gyarados should learn fly and ok I guess we can give the horse jump kick too
Psychic moves realy fit the "trickster" idea of a ninetailed fox. Maybe even ghost moves. Nightshade.
Here's an inspired idea. Remove Razor Wind from TM02 and give it to Dragonite as a signature Dragon move. Solve two problems with one fix, since Flying doesn't need Razor Wind alongside Sky Attack and Wing Attack
not a bad idea, especially since razor wind is a normal type move in gen 1
I second this idea!
I approve!
Then you can move Tri Attack to the Game corner, and make TM 02 Flamethrower, and you get it from the girl that gives you Ice Beam
Razor wind becoming a 1 turn dragon type attack? It'd basically be dragon claw, and I'm okay with that.
Vicegrip should be bug type imo. Buffs kingler and pincer, and can possibly be given as a stronger bug stab to scyther and parasect.
I second this
Third.
Fourth@@Heavyarms525
YES. 5TH
It also gives Kingler coverage against Grass and Psychic! My boy!!!
Agreed 6th
If we're talking about changing those I have to emphasize that many flying types cannot learn Drill Peck or Sky Attack.
You *need* to change Razor Wind, a Normal-type move, into a Flying-type move. Remove the charge turn and make it full accuracy OR 100ish damage.
Again I really cannot stress enough that Butterfree (& Beedrill/Venomoth), Scyther, OR Dragonite cannot be given Drill Peck as they have no beaks. And all but Dragonite normally can't get Fly. Access to any Flying stab is extremely useful, and I don't feel Wing Attack fits in the slightest on the Bug-types.
(It would also be nice for Aerodactyl, which does get brave bird, but only fly otherwise. I am assuming it gets wing attack now though.)
Yes... +1
What's more, the current distribution of drill peck has an internal logic: all pokemon that get it have LONG beaks (dodrio, zapdos, fearow). I think this added flavor does something for the world building.
At the same time, there should still be pros and cons to spearow vs pidgey vs doduo. If pidgeot gets the best flying type move, something should be done to ensure it doesn't become the "right" choice
I’d love to see that on sheer principle. Razor Wind is just plain terrible anyway so it’s not like anything that learns it would lose anything if it was changed
Very true!
@@mikeCD62Fearow and Dodrio are already faster and have higher attack. Plus we get Pigeot much later than Fearow. So I think it’s balanced.
Razor wind sounded like such a great move when I was a kid. I wish I knew better.
I loved using it on my Shiftry in Emerald
@@DigiRangerScott you sure you meant razor wind? Because it can only be given to shifty via breeding and why you would bother doing that I don't know
I mean, the gen 1 games (besides Stadium) didn't show what the move actually did, it didn't show accuracy, base power, effect.
All you had was a name, description and a battle animation to go off of. With a name like razor wind and requiring a charge-up turn making it resemble the likes of solar beam and skull bash. I don't blame you for believing that it was a strong move back then.
@@PsychoBensTV Nuzleaf learns razor wind at 37.
It should have a high crit chance and perfect accuracy. Not as strong as Solar Beam, but still something.
How about this? Keep your change to Night Shade, and give Psywave the ability of the OG Night Shade. You give Gengar a great move and you make a useless move a purpose.
Worth remembering that Gengar ALREADY had a replacement for Night Shade: Seismic Toss. And competitively Gengar prefers Toss, because not hitting Ghost is way better than not hitting Normal.
@@EinDosei think seismic toss hits ghosts in gen 1 actually
@@EinDose in gen 1 both seismic toss and night shade ignore the immunity of ghosts and normal types, the only difference between night shade and seismic toss is that seismic toss has way more pp than night shade
@@EinDose I think they are even, because night shade has less pp, but isnt counterable in comparison to seismic toss. So Gengar actually uses Night shade, because it doesnt need the pp thx to explosion but doesnt want to get countered by snorlax or chansey.
@@shimogane2474 yeah, it's not normally sticking around, and night shade has the small bonus of not effecting counter
As for the Ghost type - as a kid I always felt like dreameater should have been the strongest ghost power move, while Agatha uses, instead of Arbok, simply a Hypno with that move. Would have been a nice foreshadowing for gen 3, when the Hypno in the forrest abducted that little girl 😮
I feel like he already mentioned doing this in an earlier video but it was missing here
He’s going to make Dream Eater Ghost type but just forgot to mention it here.
Having Agatha use a Hypno with Dream Eater sounds interesting to me because I remember in the anime she defeated Ash’s Pikachu without move (it was a finisher, not an ohko, but still)
Also having a hypno would allow for more diversity to her team so it’s not all poison-types, but still fits with the “theme” her team has
@@garg4531to be fair Agatha’s theme IS poison really. Like birdcatcher Lance in Gen 2. It’s not the INTENDED theme but it’s what they’re doing
@@Skullhawk13 Right, but I meant more like the species rather than typing, like Lance and champion Iris having dragon-like pokemon
Agatha’s arbok and golbat may not be ghosts, but they at least fit with the vibe (I suppose “vibe” might’ve been a more accurate way to describe it)
I recently, 20+ years after getting the cartridge, completed the pokedex on my physical copy of red. On the team i went through the game with was a Jolteon with a moveset of Thunderbolt, pin missile, doubble kick and thunder wave. I think i can count on one hand the number of times a clicked a moved that wasnt thunderbolt. To me that says a lot.
Not possible to count that on on one hand without using glitches to skip parts. First because of the number of battles you must do before you can even get Jolteon. (Unless you traded one immediately, and even then Brock and two mandatory Hiker's exist.) 2nd because of how many Giovanni battles there are. The gym battle alone has 5 Ground-types. The rival also has a Rhyhorn/Rhydon for the final 3 battles.
@@Peelster1 bro, Jolteon was one of my 6 team members...
Please buff the fossils with how late they are revived they dont really do much except maybe aerodactyl and i think it would be cool if razor wind was turned into aerodactyls signture flying move
He's making it so you can get the fossils resurrected sooner at the museum
Let Aerodactyl learn Rock slide dammit
@@adhamwashere5320 he will
@@MageLeaderIncMaybe just have Omanyte and Kabuto early game resurrections then make it so Aerodactyl gets resurrected at Cinnabar to balance it. Also change it so Aerodactyl is resurrected at level 45 and not level 5, since resurrecting it so late in the game and requiring an insane amount of level grinding when it already has a slow level curve means that most people simply aren’t going to use it. Level 45 is pretty on par with the game’s level curve for gym 7 so I think that’s fair.
@@ConchobarJ that's what he was talking about in his stream
Even Gen 3 has terrible movepools. I think it was in Gen 4 when we first saw diverse movepools across different Pokemon
The special physical split helped a ton with move distribution!
gen 5 is when movepools started working rather then sucking
Real. I got an early Meditite in an Emerald ROM hack once and tried to use it but I got frustrated with still clicking only Confusion at level 20 on a Physical mon like that. Then I did the research and found out that it not only does not learn a fighting STAB until High Jump Kick at level 32 (which is already awful enough by itself), it literally doesn't learn ANY physical attack before then. Best I could do was give it Rock Smash through HM which had 20 base power. Just all around asinine game design.
I remember gen 4 being such a revelation
Even as late as Gen 6, some Pokémon still had mediocre learnsets. However, it is true that it was around Gen 4 that the devs started tackling the problem at its root by simply making sure each and every type had a comprehensive range of moves (early, mid and late game attacks, gimmick moves, utility moves, etc).
And then when Fairy showed up in Gen 6, it arrived underdeveloped as well. On the special side, there was no middle ground between Fairy Wind/Draining Kiss and Dazzling Gleam/Moonblast, while on the physical side, there was literally only one move. I fell out of Pokémon after Gen 7 ended so idk if those gaps have been filled yet, please do tell. ❤
Gen 1 was such a mess thinking back on it. Yellow legacy will need a hard hat next to it to show how much construction goes into it
Well between nearly losing the entire game entirely during it's development and making a lot of last minute changes to improve it I would say it's miracle we got what we did.
We didn't know any better, it was normal to not be able to beat a game in those days.
True, but looking at how little the battle system has changed it got a lot right. Keep in mind, it was made by only a few people
Gen 1 was equal parts forward facing and traditional.
For example special being one stat, because traditional JRPG would have attack and defend stats split, but magic was one stat. Hence no special split.
There are some things that are clearly just oversights too. there are 100 normal moves, even ones like karate chop and gust that make no sense as normal and should (and were) types otherwise. It makes more sense when you realize that "normal" was originally "beast" type but was changed at some point.
Anyways gen 1 is equally as interesting as a game as the story of its development, and the glitches and flaws. It's a beautiful mess.
@@bradlauk1419i always tought Gust was normal because if it was flying it would wreck bulbasaur at route 1. That's so that in GSC pidgey only knew tackle until lvl 9.
I'm glad you're keeping the Hyper Beam not recharging after causing the opponent to faint. I really wish that was still how it worked.
Or at least make them work like Gigachad hammer
An easy way to balance sleep would be to reduce the duration by 1 turn, since it takes 1 turn more in gen 1.
It’s gonna take more than that because sleep would still have the potential to last for 6 turns
So sleep would still be able to last 6 turns, which is still op, but the real issue is faster Pokémon will still be able to resleep you the turn after you wake up, without you being able to do anything. This is why Jynx and Gengar are so good in Gen 1. However, it’s a quintessential Gen 1 mechanic, that would feel wield to not have. The best I think you could do while still maintaining that unique Gen 1ness is to incorporate the sleep clause and have the AI cognizant of it, which seems like a pain to code. Or reduce the PP of sleep moves so that they can’t be spammed as much
Overall, some great ideas here! Really looking forward to playing the final build! Love slam as a physical Dragon move. For Thumder, I think it's safe to move its accuracy to 85% to match fire blast and blizzard. Bite should stay normal imo
Yeah Slam as Dragon sounds awesome
I don't really understand why he makes his own fixes while we have official fixes. Many of the randomizers or mods already allow us to use modern movesets and even stuff like fairy type in older gens. Some of the changes he does were already done in the first "patch" the games ever got, which was gen 2 (like adding shadow ball for ghosts or sludge bomb as a higher damage option for poison type).
I get why we use gen 1 instead of the remakes for the purpose of nostalgia but why not use the fixes that we got in these games?
@@Nerex7 Maybe this mod just isn't for you?
@@Nerex7his approach is the keep certain thing’s fundamental the same, like no new types, but also improve the experience of the game
@@Nerex7 The danger in copying gen 2 changes wholesale is that gen 1 loses its identity and results in both games feeling too uniform. It would be boring if they both played the same with only visual changes.
I appreciate how much thought and planning you put into these romhacks. I consider Crystal Legacy THE definitive way to play Crystal, I'm anticipating Yellow Legacy will be just as good.
Emerald legacy has left the chat
@@EeveeianartTheSpiddlerCome back. There are plenty of good quality of life rom hacks for emerald. Less so for gen 2 and 1. Emerald did a lot of things right
I'm taking about how Smith is going to make emerald legacy
Couple of suggestions:
Make Skull bash a rock type move, lower its power to like 80 and give it to Onix instead of Bide. It would make a lot of sense and be more respectable to receive from Brock than Bide. People can still take advantage of not moving on the charge turn, and its a useful early game tm. At 80bp, it becomes a early-mid stage rock move. Even worse than Rock throw really since it takes two turns. At level cap, Onix still shouldnt be able to 1 shot anything that it isnt super effective against. Even with Onix's attack bump (what was it now? like 70?). And then, if you are giving other charge moves a stat increase turn 1, Skull Bash can do +1 Defense. And would fit Brock's Defense motif.
Please keep Slam as Dragon! I love that idea!
I would like the idea of a Ghost type Bite on Raticate. Im team Ghost Bite lol.
I know you dont want to add moves, but if Nightshade is staying as is, then maybe something like Haze or Mist (or some other useless move) can be repurposed as Shadowball. Last resort option. But it does kind of give a best of both worlds effect.
For solarbeam, i think just making it grass type fireblast would be better. 1 turn, low accuracy. Grass has a lot of weeknesses, so one turn of doing nothing can be really bad for them. Otherwise, making it increase Special on turn 1 but with a 120power might be better because it'll give a little special defense buff.
Razor wind can have a speed increase on charge turn. I think this would also increase crit rate with gen 1 mechanics. Makes it a good moves. Maybe even flying type.
Please please please, make Acid have a chance to burn!
Lastly, with the trapping moves, you can still switch in gen 1 so its not too horrible.
And with sleep, you get access to the pokeflute which is infinite awakenings. Not useful in no item runs but otherwise is a way to balance sleep.
"For solarbeam, i think just making it grass type fireblast would be better. 1 turn, low accuracy. Grass has a lot of weaknesses, so one turn of doing nothing can be really bad for them."
While balance wise you're absolutely right, I feel as though solar beam is one of the more iconic moves in the series, especially with its turn to charge. I think it'd be a shame to erase what's unique about it just bring grass in line with other types when it's always been different.
"Otherwise, making it increase Special on turn 1 but with a 120power might be better because it'll give a little special defense buff."
That's a cool idea. No clue how balanced it is, but it's cool!
@BeyondTrash-xe1vs yea, i agree. Thats why i gave a second option because i kinda feel the same way. But yea, grass types sitting there for a turn doing nothing makes solarbeam almost useless if they are just going to die while charging. They would need that defensive boost in some way.
@supersaiyaneevee1573 I like this idea, too. Maybe implement it into crystal legacy as well haha. Or solar beam becomes a grass hyper beam.
I'd argue the trappping moves in gen 1 are more horrible since they give the user of the move basically free chip damage and if it's faster and doesn't miss a free ko
I would be very careful about giving Brock a good Rock move. Brock is already really polarizing because of how there isn't a goldilocks zone of difficulty for him, he is either a cake walk or one of the top 10 hardest fights in Gen 1.
Making Slam a Dragon Type move sounds like an excellent idea, if your goal is to give all Types more STAB options: it's reminiscent of Dragon Tail in concept (not in effect) and is the same BP as Dragon Claw, the modern "catch-all" Dragon STAB.
Making Razor Wind the Flying version of Razor Leaf sounds like the most fitting option thematically, and, while Flying might not necessarily need this, if you keep its TM-exclusive status, it could be a neat option for those who don't get Drill Peck; alternatively, I guess you could make it akin to Skull Bash, only raising Speed instead of Defense, but that mechanic was not in Gen 1, so that also depends on if you can code it to work that way or not; thematically speaking, this would be the Kamaitachi raising winds on the first turn and then, speedier than before, flying towards the opponent to cut it.
The change to Night Shade is also excellent: while my personal preference is for it to be a mid-game BP move (say, 65 BP), Ghost does not have options, this Gen, so it essentially being the ancestor to Shadow Ball without any secondary effect sounds like a good compromise; the "fixed damage" moves were always really wonky, anyway, and we don't need more than one, considering Seismic Toss would still be there.
The changes so far are awesome!
But, changing sand attack, kinesis, etc. (non-damaging moves) to damaging moves feels too far for a legacy game IMO.
I just finished Crystal Legacy and can't wait for this!!
As someone who grew up with Gen 1 games I'm so excited for Yellow Legacy. Been hardcore nuzlocking Crystal Legacy and it quickly became my favorite Pokemon Rom. Love all the comms you and the team have put together!
You could make Slam a weaker dragon move (80 bp isn't really "weak", especially in gen 1 terms, but I digress) and have Razor Wind be dragon-type Solar Beam? I also think Sand-Attack as Mud Slap is a great idea for early game grounds like Sandshrew. I also think Bite being ghost makes a lot of sense because Lick is already ghost. Anyway, this looks like it's gonna be a lot of fun! Count me in as excited!
Im definitely team Ghost type Bite lol.
If licking is considered a ghostly thing, i dont see why biting cant be too.
Also, i would love to use Ghost type Bite on a Raticate (assuming Smit updates its moveset with it.)
Bite being Ghost makes a lot of sense...
But Razor-wind should be a 75 BP flying type move , Since not every flying type learns Drill-Peck , which is expected since most don't have a Beak..
9 don't have a beak. I think they should all just be allowed to learn Fly. (Still hilarious how Charizard couldnt learn fly in Red/Blue. It can learn it in Yellow)@@yaduvarma9854
I made a romhack long ago for Red (called Hot Red, never released it, just made it for me and my brother to play), I made Ghost-type strong against Psychic-type, and Fire-type Resistant to Ice-type attacks, along with some other changes.
I made Egg bomb into Shadow Ball, and Razor Wind into a one-hit X-scissor move bug move. It has a nice slashing animation.
I also added Dragon Claw, but I think I removed Fury Swipes for that.
Made Gust flying too. And I added Cross chop, but I can't remember which I changed. One of my favorites was giving Fly to be learned to Gyarados, Golbat, Scyther, and a few others.
Man, you could release it, sounds great
One thing I hope to see are some TM changes, since a lot of them are either only for 1-2 Pokemon or are totally useless.
TM16 - Pay Day is now Light Screen, TM30 - Teleport becomes Night Shade, TM37 - Egg Bomb into Flamethrower, TM41 - Soft Boiled to Thunderpunch, etc.
Apparently how they distributed attacks in Gen 1 was inspired by classic JRPGs like Dragon Quest and you were meant to mostly use Normal type moves (that's why there's so many of them) while moves of other types are your special moves to be used sparingly and tactically. Problem with that of course was that they gave most moves more than enough PP to spam them plus STAB makes them stronger, soon as Charmander gets Ember there's literally no reason to use anything else, but then paradoxically some types just have no viable moves like Bug, Ghost, Dragon and some like Flying do with Drill Peck but distribution of said move is limited to 3 total Flying types.
Love the changes so far, I still think Dream Eater should be final Ghost move and stay at 100 BP. Giving a stab that strong for Gengar I find is fair especially because sleep is needed for it to work. Also maybe give it Exeggutor for a covereage option. It can already learn it GEN 2 onwards so it makes sense to me. Can't wait for this game!
Fire types has a smoother scaling than presented. It’s true that firepunch is a hands only Pokemon move, but the newly added firewheel exists as the bubblebeam og gen 2 (60bp fire move)
Was pondering this topic a few days ago. Strength is usually portrayed with picking up and tossing rocks. You could easily justify a type change from normal to rock I think and it might give some good flexibility to have a third rock move to fill in the middle ground there and give some type options to a lot of mons. And normal is fairly glutted around the Mid/High moves as is, losing out on another is probably fine.
This gets asked ALL the time! Fighting doesn't need another move, and giving 70% of pokemon families a strong fighting move destroys the game balance.
@@smithplayspokemon They said rock.
@@smithplayspokemonbut he didnt suggest Fighting, he suggested rock.
This might be a good option since normal types have Body Slam, which is stronger than Strength and has a decent chance to paralyze the enemy too, vs Strength having no secondary effect
It can also work as fighting type, but I think the adjustments made there are enough
Reeeeeeeally big fan of making Slam into a dragon move! It's basically a signature move of the Dragonite line, as-is, and it's completely overshadowed by Strength and Body Slam as a normal move. Making Night Shade into pseudo Shadow Ball is also fantastic, actually, because ONLY the Gengar line can actually learn it in gen 1, and they don't often have much reason to use it when they have options like Psychic.
All of the other changes are really slick, and the idea of buffing Bide a bit is also quite a cool idea, as it also makes the TM for Bide much less of a throwaway-- when compared against Misty's Bubblebeam, Surge's Thunderbolt, or even just Erika's Mega Drain, Bide was always kind of just the worst of the gym leader TMs by a mile, so it'd be great for more defensive mons to have more options (especially if sleep is being migrated to later levels, actually). Bide has good distribution, so making it feel like more of a prize is just really neat. Though, making Brock a bit harder to make up for not having access to Bind, if that's moved to later, would also be great.
Solarbeam being effectively 90BP feels like a good, simple fix for its issues, also. Dealing double the damage of something like Flamethrower in a single turn does have some utility for wallbreaking and muscling past mons that'd otherwise heal, which helps to make up for the inherent disadvantages of taking two turns. The fact that it doesn't lose damage in the process feels like it'll be really nice for game balance.
Aaand I'm also super happy to see some of my favorite changes from Crystal Legacy carrying over, as well as correcting moves like Gust, Wing Attack, Karate Chop, et cetera. And making recoil moves and multihit moves less terrible via an accuracy bump is also just fantastic for the usability of sooooooooo many mons who are forced to rely on such early on.
Also, random, but Pikachu, Onix, Tangela, and Lickitung getting potential dragon-type coverage with Slam? Does AMAZING things for some elsewise very underwhelming mons. Onix then has a bit of extra utility in late game (resists hyper beam, can potentially outspeed, and can hit Dragonair super effectively? A nice mix to feel less overshadowed by Rhydon and Golem). Tangela then feels like it has SOMETHING other than basic normal and grass moves. Lickitung likewise gets some really nice coverage that can also hit rock types (and both then get a move that can hit ghosts). Plus, it means Pikachu can have some secondary coverage that'll fill a role similar to gen 2's Iron Tail, where it then has SOME way of hitting rock types, but then the move has utility later against Lance... or perhaps that'd be a bit much, given Pikachu then potentially counters his entire team?
So, Pikachu miiiight need a dragon-type slam taken out of its moveset (perhaps replaced by Body Slam, or something?), if it'd cause problems for balance in the Lance fight, but the other pokemon that might need to have the move cut is Victreebel. It's already perhaps the best grass type outside of Exeggutor, and better poison STAB will already be quite the buff.
I remember discussion about maybe changing the TM list a little bit, and I hope that ends up being possible. There's a few too many that contain moves that like, only one or two pokemon can actually learn (looking at YOU, Softboiled), and sort of defeat the purpose of what TMs should be.
Softboiled was bad with that. I understand it's nice to teach it to Mew, but Mew wasn't supposed to be in the game. So it was effectively just locking a signature move behind a TM, so if you caught a 2nd Chansey, it simply wouldn't get the move.
I feel like the only way that gen 1 moves can work effectively is to just add more moves. Changing so many of the old moves all at once is such a massive change that there isn’t really a way to do it without it feeling no longer like gen 1, so leaving more moves untouched and adding a few gen 2 options could maybe help the “feel” of the old moves stay intact, instead of feeling like a romhack moves-wise.
Heavily agree here. There's so much changing around, just add the fixes the original games already implemented: more moves. It could be that easy. It also keeps moves like Nightshade from being butchered.
I don't think there is much room in the rom to be adding stuff. Although I can't imagine move data to take much space
That's not the type of game he's trying to make.
@@azjeffs And I get that. The problem is that his current solution feels even less like gen 1, which is his goal, to make it still have that gen 1 charm. If it feels like a fangame, it didn’t come out right.
@@BoltTheEmolga That's fair enough. I completely respect your opinion, but I disagree. I like the changes he's made :)
It wasn't until I played gen 1 again recently that i realised just how inaccessible Flamethrower is- most fire types don't get it until a pretty high level, and if you evolve Growlithe and Vulpix too early, they won't learn it at all
It is such a fun and unique Gen 1 experience to fight Mewtwo (aka. the "last boss" of the game) and your trusty starter Charizard still only can use Ember if you haven't opted to teach it Fire Blast...
A lot of good changes. Turning Slam into Dragon Type sounds good to me. It is utterly useless between all the good Normal type moves otherwise. You might want to limit its distribution in this case.
Razor Wind should be Flying type. How about making it raise Attack by 1 stage in the charge turn and deal damage in the second turn. Like Skull Bash does with Defense (also, make sure Skull Bash does actually do that :D
I feel like Rage can be a solid 40 or 50 base power dragon move
A lot of mons that learn rage are from the dragon egg group and kind of look like dragons
I actually like that idea
Repeating from a livestream comment section-
Slam to Dragon makes sense to me.
Dragon Rage could be given a Super Fang style effect, where it halves current HP - this allows it to always be useful in setting up 2-3 shots in tandem with another move at any point in the game, instead of being overpowered, then mid, then useless.
Sand-attack being an accuracy-lowering stall move is iconic and changing it to mud-slap feels incorrect, but I agree that a ground type "bubble" for early game at 20-25 BP is sorely needed. Kinesis, on the other hand, is not so necessary as psychic has plenty of good moves.
Valid!
Lots of cool changes so far! Excited to see this progress. Question on making Slam dragon type, I assume you cannot just “add a new move” given pretty much exclusively to Dragonite line? Otherwise I’d suggest just making a Dragon Claw or similar move. If changing Slam to Dragon, that may get messy with its distribution to other mons? Perhaps if Razor Wind just has no good suggested changes, repurpose that one to a dragon move? Same issue with distribution though I guess. Just thinking out loud. I trust you’ll find something that makes sense by the end.
It's actually very easy. Just replace slam with headbutt on every other pokemon. They get a buff in a more accurate move. Boom.
@@smithplayspokemonkeeping a dragon type slam on some dragonlike Pokémon wouldve good to offset Dragonite's new power boost, Gyarados, Charizard and Aerodacytl having Dragon type Slam would be cool.
@@smithplayspokemon Sorry, just read this. Now I get why you choose Slam. Much easier to implement and avoid giving Pikachu a Dragon move at Level 20. 😅
Pikachu learns slam would he still learn it at 21 knowing it's a dragon move? I find he should just like learning surf too. Yea my Pikachu learnset gonna be surf, slam, thunderbolt and broken double team for badge boosting
@@smithplayspokemon Would Hyper Beam being Dragon be that game-breaking?
Yes it's a powerful normal type move though there's a plethora of normal type moves you can change. That and Hyper Beam being Lance's signature move being a Dragon Elite 4 member makes a lot of sense, plus since you're moving Dragon to physical, it'd be the same as Normal Hyper Beam being physical anyway. Only real difference is that Ghost can be hit and Rock can't resist it.
You should change wrap to dragon type. It would give dratini a low level stab move and the pokemon that tend to learn it are reptilian in appearance (ekans, likitung, etc)
I don't really like the idea of changing everything about a move into a different move but keeping its name. If you turn sludge into sludge bomb, night shade into shadow ball and sand attack into mud slap, just call them sludge bomb, shadow ball and mud slap.
The secondary effects of the moves all stay the same. They're not identical to the modern game moves.
For example, Shadow Ball can lower Special Defense, but that secondary effect is not here so calling it Shadow Ball could confuse people.
Razor Wind should get fixed.
Change the Accuracy to 100%
First turn is a charge. When attacked by a physical attack during charge, the attacker takes damage equal to 1/8 of their maximum HP.
In my opinion, this seems like a solid upgrade to the move.
A few other ideas:
- Roar and Whirlwind could get repurposed into being actual attacks that deal damage. Maybe Roar could be a Fire-type move with the idea being the Pokemon's fiery roar deals damage. The move is only learned by the Vulpix and Arcanine lines in this game, slap it onto Ponyta too and there you go. Then with Whirlwind, make it Bug so Butterfree and Venomoth are eating something, plus another teachable Bug move would be cool)
- Make Psywave into a Night Shade clone, while moving OG Night Shade to Shadow Ball power. Base Psywave is just really bad and also breaks the game, may as well fix it
- I think Sonic Boom could be reworked into that mid-power Electric move. Learned by Voltorb and Magnemite lines, normally a pretty useless move, move is described as a shock wave in RSE onward
- Razor Wind, just make it another Aerial Ace. Shouldn't be an objectively worse move than Tackle
Making roar a fire move is a really good idea given, as you said, it's only learned by vulpix and arcanine who are both in need of a mid game fire move.
The list of available moves has GREATLY changed from Gen. 1 into later games. And I am thankful for that!
I like the idea of slam being dragon.
Razor wind could be gen 1 aerial ace. You could make it BP 50 to not make it too strong
I had a similar idea for razer wind, only make it a fully anti-setup move and give it the high crit rate with skipping accuracy checks, but still takes 2 turns to keep it from being totally broken
slam being dragon makes no sense
Here's some of my own suggestions, yes, I hate the overabundance of Normal moves in Gen 1:
Strength could be reworked into a Rock type move so the type has more options, and more Pokemon get a Rock coverage move. Maybe 65 BP and 100% accuracy, but no flinch, so that Rock Slide does more damage and has flinches but is less accurate. The animations always show it throwing a rock, so it kinda fits.
Razor Wind should a Drill Peck alternative, that's more spreadable to all Flying Pokemon, as they all have Wings. Maybe 70-75 BP, no charge turn. The move would have a reason to exist, and would give Aerodactyl and Pidgeot a good Flying STAB while leaving Drill Peck as a better alternative for the Pokemon that get it. All get good STAB, but some get a cool exclusive move.
Skull Bash could be reworked to be Rock, and up Defense, but not special. The Pokemon is preparing for an attack, probably hunched in, so upping defense helps the move be not completely useless.
Some of my favorite suggestions from the video and the comments:
- EGG BOMB SHOULD BE GRASS. Exeggutor gains nothing from Egg Bomb as is. It would also be funny for Chansey to get it (like it needs the help anyway).
Slam is such a nothing move that making it Dragon would actually give it a reason to exist. If Pikachu and Raichu REALLY need a random normal move, they could get Take Down. Raichu gets Submission, so it's not super weird.
- Making Ghost Special and Dragon Physical is a great move, it makes more sense given the Pokemon in this gen.
I really like @PixelPenguin77 suggestions for Ninetails, Arcanine, & Rapidash, maybe give them cool coverage as they wait for Flamethrower.
- @luketettelbach1823 suggestion for Vicegrip is AWESOME, make it BUG TYPE, KINGLER COVERAGE, KINGLER SWEEP LESGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Love the work you’re doing with Gen 1 man don’t give up and keep being creative and inspired by fun ideas! the first 3 Gens are my childhood so I’m so excited to see a romhack that still hits close to home but only improves upon the adventure. Crystal Legacy was great!
Really excited for Yellow Legacy after how great Crystal Legacy was. Are there any plans to add the already caught pokeball symbol for wild encounters? That would be a nice little QOL improvement!
Isn't that in the base game?
@@Pudcup not in gen 1 it's not
@@Pudcup Not in gen 1. That made it's first appearance in gen 2!
@@AdamDallas damn I was tripping then.
@@Pudcup Not really tripping, probably just the nostalgia completly blocking out that Gen 1 had exactly 0 QoL features. Like....none.
I know it's completely unlikely but I'd love it if you kept Bug and Poson type moves being super-effective against each other. Please help the Bug type out
I think he did say in the initial video on the subject that that was one of the oddball quirks of Gen I he wanted to keep, like the Badge Boost glitch or the Hyper Beam recharge glitch.
Razor Wind as a flying move that gives you a speedboost on turn 1 and hits for around 75-90 BP on turn 2 would be cool.
Looking at the original moves. I think that the designers wanted each Type to also have their own "gimmicks" or "style" of fighting alongside their type advantages and disadvantages. This philosophy of their designs is what made them so bad as the two types of battle systems became incompatible with each other. The game's dialogue focused so much on the type chart that kids were trained to do the same. And then of course there were the glitches, like Ghost-type being weak to Psychic or forgetting certain type interactions such as the Gengar line also being Poison type (which is ALSO weak to Psychic).
I like Slam as Dragon @ 70 bp, if we can get dragon-type Thrash @95 Bp.
Consider, you could let the dragonite line learn both, while allowing pokemon like Gyrados, Charizard, and Nidoking to have one or the other. It also works well with Dragon being physical.
Hmm thrash being dragon type does seem a little more fitting seeing as gyarados learns it. Could sorta be like outrage. Although removing that move from others (can only think of nidoking) puts me off a little
@calebrobinson6406 Nidoking can keep it. He's dragon-ish enough and it would make him even cooler. I say give Gyrados and Nidoking Thrash, and give Charizard and Seadra Slam.
The only other Thrash users are Primape, Jynx, and Marowak, none of whom really need it imo.
@@alexbraun1305 I think Taurus also learns thrash normally iirc
Thoughts:
* Razor Wind = Flying type Razor Leaf
* Dragon Rage = give it the Nightshade treatment, remove the fixed damage and put it in the 60-90 BP range. Also, Hyper Beam is also kind of a signature move of Dragonite, maybe HB could be Dragon-type?
* Stomp as a weaker Ground type move perhaps? It has good distribution and gives some mons much needed STAB and/or coverage.
*Skull Bash and/or Take Down as Rock-type moves, perhaps?
I think status moves should become Bird type. Otherwise trainers with smart AI will never choose a status move against a Rock or Ghost type pokemon, and that can also be exploited. And you'll never see the types of the moves in game so you wouldn't know it's a weird type anyway.
Clever thinking!
@@willowparker-ct3pqI can't take too much credit. Smithplays discussed that idea in a previous episode. But since he changed his mind and went with normal, I figured I might as well bring up a negative and see if that changes his decision or not.
I'm not sure how exactly that could be exploited. If the smart AI isn't picking a status move, doesn't that just mean they're attacking your pokemon?
@CrashJetTech Yes. But it also means that Lorelei's Slowbro won't use Amnesia or Withdraw against your Gengar to set up against your other pokemon. Her Dewgong will never use rest. Koga's Venomoth will never use Double Team.
It's less useful than the old exploit, but still is beneficial sometimes, like if you want to heal your pokemon without the risk of set up.
@@Alienldr Slowbro wouldn't use a Bird type Amnesia against Gengar or Rock types anyway, since it has Psychic and Water moves which the AI would see as better. Dewgong using Rest doesn't actually help Lorelei set up at all, on top of the fact that Lorelei's Dewgong in Yellow has a unique method of move selection.
Making status moves Bird type also risks the case where your pokemon resists all of their actual attacks. Like a Starmie against Slowbro would cause Slowbro to endlessly use a Bird move if it sees Water and Psychic aren't very effective. I think it's much more important to avoid exploits where the AI is literally incapable of making progress, even if the new version can still be predicted and played around.
The major issue was they did have a lot of good moves but they were cut from the final versions of the game due to cartridge limitations
There is any list of cut moves from gen 1?
Do you have a source on this? I'm really interested in seeing the list of moves as originally thought out. That would give a lot of insight. I bet a lot of moves were cut that wouldn't be used by a lot of pokemon. There is just 1 line of ghosts and 1 line of dragons, so it makes sense to cut those moves first.
According to the source code it was suppose to be around 237@@MrMisutei
According to the helix chamber we're still processing that.@@Nerex7
Razor Wind is based the Kamaitachi, a youkai which is usually related to the cold wind (ice), stealth attacks (dark) and speed (flying), so u may give a buff on speed or evasion (or both).
By the way this kind of moves like Solar Beam, Skull Bash, Razor Wind could improve if u give them 2 buff stages instead of 1 on its charging turn, it doesn't have to buff the same stat and that would make the move worth to use, so u dont have to give them a massive amount of power.
What if you made razor wind a multi-hit move, 1 (87%) or 2 hits (13%)?
It'd be cool if you added a dragon move (dragon breath) instead trying to make slam into one. The chance to paralyze would be powerful in this gen.
I like idea where bide gets buffed!
Dragon Rage can be Dragon Breath but with 50 base power and no paralysis. It's not resisted by anything if Gyarados gets it early so it retains its early game dominance, but taking off the damage cap would make it kinda useful late game when dealing with Lance.
@@12triproberts Bite is normal type in gen 1 so it can't hit ghosts and would be resisted by rock types. Having a move not resisted by anything would feel powerful but wouldn't be better than getting STAB or 2x.
Not bad. Still feel a few changes to some move types might be needed… ideas:
1. Not sure why Constrict can’t be Rock type. Becomes basically Rock Tomb that way.
2. Another Rock type move idea is Barrage. Right now it’s just on Exeggutor but it’d be a neat early Rock move.
Razor Wind - How about making it Flying Type Swift/a precursor to Aerial Ace? It bypassing accuracy entirely to strike makes it quite nasty.
Wrap - Make it Grass Type Clamp/Fire Spin?
Nothing about constrict makes it an appropriate rock move.
@@TheWonkstermaybe these body enveloping moves should be based on type of the Pokémon itself
My favorite fix to Razor Wind is to do similar to what Blue Kaizo did, make it a 90 BP move, to charge turn, and high crit. That being said, BK limits the mons that can learn it to basically only flying types, and even then not every flying type gets it.
honestly, i prefer having bite be ghost time and night shade be a fixed damage move; this effect is very much unique to it and seismic toss in this gen and it would personally throw me off way more than having bite be super effective against psychic.
Also, idea for dragonite: make razor wind dragon type ! and have it kinda like a dragon type slam. There is precedent to having wind based moves be dragon type with twister, and having dragonite learn it upon evolution would be pretty cool. If anything, at least like make it flying type, this move is currently a travesty despite having a cool name and that's sad. Though a realise having an 80BP dragon type attack be a tm to be strange. You were talking about making rock throw a tm so maybe replace it with that ?
cool ideas for moves though !!
So there's a lot of Gen I moves that just suck but have a very nostalgic ring to the names. I once made a Firered hack where I gave these moves significant spots in movesets and that really gave the game a more 90s feel for me. Some of my changes:
- Skull Bash: I always loved the name of this move. I made it Rock's Double Edge. In Firered this works well with Rock Head but it's still extremely powerful without.
- Razor Wind: Since the name is so close to Razor Leaf I just made it Flying Type Razor Leaf. Really cool move for the Bug/Flying types that lack Flying stab. And I feel it fits Golbat because of Gen III Air Cutter. I put both Razor Leaf and Wind in FR to 75 bp but that's unnecessary in Gen I.
- OHKO moves: they sound so cool, but they're so bad...
- I made Horn Drill Gen III Stone Edge and made it Rhydon's signature move. But you could make it Ground since it's used for digging and the Nido's could use it as well.
- Guillotine: This move just screams Bug type to me. I made it Bug Stone Edge, but in Gen I it makes more sense to mirror Megahorn. This one really gives Pinsir, Kingler and Scyther something to work with.
- Fissure: Not sure about this one in Gen I. It's cool as a special Ground move in my hack, but you don't have a phys/spec split.
As for the Dragonite problem. Dragon Rage could be Gen I Outrage. But Slam as Gen I Dragon Rush is also a cool idea. The move is really associated with Dragonite in Gen I anyway. Why not both? Gives you a choice of which drawback is worse: locked into Dragon Rage with confusion of 75 acc of Slam.
Sand-Attack as Gen 1 mudslap is a really cool idea. Not sure how to feel about Slam as dragon move though (or bite as ghost, though your reasoning makes a lot of sense), but this is probably easier than making a new move I guess?
If the idea is staying true to Gen 1. Shouldn't we try to play to the idea that they initially wanted each type to have a distinct play style. So poison for example was weaker but had a higher chance of causing status effects. Maybe the status effects need boosting instead of base power?
Gen 1 was pretty messy when you think about pokemon competitively but if you think in themes, it got a lot of things right. There ghost moves are pretty much stereotypes on what ghosts do. Same goes for bug moves of which the only deadly aspect is poison, just like in real life. Any bug sting isn't too bad - it is the poison that makes some of them dangerous. Weaknesses were also mostly based on either logic or themes. Psychic being weak to the 3 biggest fears of humans of that time (bugs, ghosts and being added in gen 2: the dark) shows that too. Fighting being strong against rock type comes form karate masters chopping bricks. There was little balance or thought here, just gimmicky themes that fit a more role-play like scenario.
I also get why Ghost type is underwhelming in its attacks in gen 1. There is only Gengar's evolutionary line. That line is meant to utilize its good special attack stat while ghost is a physical type. Even with a physical move, I doubt any Gengar would run it. The rest of them are kinda gimmicky moves. Lick and Confuse Ray do status effects, annoying things that ghosts do while Nightshade has a static amount of damage depending on the level and it's type actually doesn't matter much as it cannot be very effective or use the STAB.
Recoil on most fighting moves makes sense when you think about it. Ever tried to punch or kick something? You take damage too.
I could go on and on, my point really is that from a gameplay point of view, it's terrible. And we know that because we know a lot better after decades of gaming. If you look at it with some realism, some role-play and fantasy elements that were more common back in the day - it makes a lot of sense why gen 1 is what it is.
yeah but they could have leaned into that while making it balanced. Like if you want to give fighting moves recoil why not make them stronger than typical moves? That stregthen both the identity and the balance. Or the fact they clearly didn't think through charging move, thinking that solarbeam was a flashy move at 100BP not realizing it effectively has 50. The move could have been really amazing and set grass apart. Although they also didn't understand the implication of their crit mechanic so razor leaf ends up being rather strong instead so that works out =p
point is yeah they mostly cared about themes but having poor balance also detracts from that and a lot of poor balance decision clearly stem from a lack of understanding of their own game system rather than a conscious decision to focus on realism.
Also the person who designed razor wind in particular... tbh I have to believe they were fucking with us there nobody can design a move so poorly without realizing xD
Honestly? The only thing I desperately want to see is a slight stat change to Hitmonchan.
When it comes to Pokemon that I feel were done dirty Hitmonchan FEELS like he was done the dirtiest. Hitmonlee is a powerhouse for damage and his signature moves all play to his stats strengths...However, Hitmonchan feels like he was kind of wronged? A simple swap of his attack and special stats would allow for his elemental punches (Which really do feel like his signature attacks) to do some real damage and make him a more 'defensive' option of the Hitmon line (which plays into his later design philosophy that his defense is higher than offense to evolve into a Hitmonchan from the Tyrogue line) and kind of warrant him being on a team as a specially defensive and elemental covering fighting type...Which considering his very limited level up move pool has half physical, half special (with one of those three physical moves being reliant on damage done to you and the other two are 'okay' moves with 85 accuracy) it feels as though that is what he was meant to be.
Completely agree
I feel like Horn Attack could be a decent idea to make a Dragon move.
This is the best way to deal with gen 1 mechanics so a free subscription and a like.
Razor Wind is such a cool name for a move, its gotta be stronger.
How about a 2 turn, high crit rate Flying type attack? Sort of a high risk, high reward move for glass cannons like Scyther?
Honestly I really like the idea of making slam a 100% accurate game physical dragon move. Redeem dragonite!
Hearing that all status moves were made normal type, my only concern is if that makes normal types immune to status from them. I'm not 100% on gen 1 mechanics, but I do know that pokemon cannot be statused by at least an attacking move of the same type as them. This was a big upset for gen 1 competitive when it was discovered because normal types were immune to body slam paralysis.
Again not 100% sure if that carries over to status moves, but worth looking into.
Thunder Wave works on Electric types in Gen 1 if that is your worry.
I like the Slam idea a lot. Always felt like a nothing move to me. For Razor Wind, you could make it an equivalent to Drill Peck for non-beaked flying types like Scyther, Butterfree, Dragonite, Charizard, Aerodactyl, Gyarados, etc. Or even a bit weaker with a flinch chance or higher crit rate?
soo, i know the limitations but:
you will make a battle tower like for post game? there's nothing but mewtwo;
it would be interesting if had a post game fight with jessie & james, where it would be shown that they would leave this life of crime and the region after the fall of team rocket and realize that it wasn't cool and so on, just like etto, it would explain why they don't appear in gen 2 even though the team returns
Before I start watching the video let's still give kudos for the devs making this franchise in the first place. The amount of work to make all these moves must have been such a time consuming task. But with that said we can always do better. Let's see those improvements!
If you remove Razor wind from the game, i feel likeno one would even notice
You could turn Razor Wind into a flying version of Slash (no charge, less BP), maybe a flying version of Thrash/Petal Dance (high BP, you keep attacking, but you get confused), or maybe a flying type Brick Break that removes Reflect / Light Screen / Mist (because you "cut" the barriers with your RAZOR attack??).
For a mid-BP Fire type, I feel like Fire Punch still leaves some pokémon like Ponyta, Vulpix and Growlithe with no options... Would it be terrible if you made Poison Gas into what you did to Smog, and move Smog to a Fire type, around 55-60 BP, that does an extra thing like lowering accuracy, eating PP or some random stuff like that? Maybe even a flinch.
For Ghost, what if Dream Eater becomes Ghost? You could do some crazy stuff like giving it 60 power and a 40-ish% chance to put the target to sleep?? What I don't like about this is that it breaks the SLeep / Dream Eater combo, but was it that good to begin with?
For Dragon, maybe Thrash can become similar to Outrage? And maybe Comet Punch can be a weaker Dragon Claw? And what if you give some other pokémon Dragon type, like maybe Kangaskhan and Seadra?
For Rock, what if you make Sharpen a Rock type move that works similar to Power-Up Punch (little BP + Atk boost)? Or similar to Flame Wheel (mid BP + Speed buff) to try and make Rock pokémon go for some setup?
Eggbomb as grass feels odd to me, but maybe I could get used to it. I would definitely have to always double check that one from your information if it was the case. Maybe have a secondary effect like high crit or chance to lower defense or maybe even paralyze
@@12triproberts- Does Chancy also learn it? If so going to special probably makes it stronger on Chansey despite losing Stab
@@12triproberts - I think with its impressive base 5 attack, any physical class move is essentially useless on Chansey, Egg Bomb being grass would be a more useful unique move to Exegutor essentially a grass fire blast, and it gives an extra option for Chansey who just gets nothing out of Normal moves.
I said it on one of the Livestream vids, but Razor Wind as a Bug type move exclusive to Butterfree and Venomoth makes the most sense.
Hell, if you wanted to get crazy, you could make the TM useable on the likes of the legendary trio, but honestly i like it being exclusive to the butterfly and moth, to give bugs some variety instead of just being Cut+Twinneedle all the time.
I was thinking Razor Wind for Dragonite makes too much sense but I actually love this idea!
- I still think that making Bite a "Ghost" type move is good. Is it possible to change the text for where it says Bite is a "Ghost" type, maybe you could just change the text to a "???" type. I still think making Bite a Ghost type move is a good idea.
- You mentioned about making some status moves Bird type, so they ignore the glitchiness of Good AI. Because as you are suggesting it, Gengar (who is really good) could still cheese the AI, because they won't use normal status moves against it anymore.
- Razor Wind. Make it one turn. You did that for Sky Attack. If Razor Wind was one turn, it'd be viable. It's such a bad move that no one is going to MISS it taking two turns. Razor Wind has few fans and those that do it like it, like it for its potential. Not what it is. Also, Razor Wind could become a Dragon type move. Why? Twister is a Dragon type move and it really should be a Flying type. So if you want to give other PKMN a Dragon type move, one turn Razor Wind is there. Even if you don't make it Dragon typing because Gen 1 doesn't need it, it could still become another decent Normal or Flying type move.
Razor wind is just a cool sounding move. I WANT to be able to use it on someone on my team, but its just such an awful move.
#teamGhostTypeBite
I like the idea being dragon type like twister. Gives some diversity. And a downy option than giving slan that treatment. Just change who can learn razor wind, vs spam that can be learned by pikachu onix and others.
Opponents not using status moves against Gengar wouldn't be the cheese. The cheesiness comes from opponents only using status moves infinitely because of type effectiveness. Agility against poison types is probably the most notorious infinite status move use in gen 1. Makes a lot of Pokemon totally free to battle against with a Pokemon with the right type.
What do you think if they made razor wind the setup fail safe move. Ignores accuracy checks and always crits, but remains a 2 turn move so it won't be too broken. I think that'd be a neat alternative. Would be happy with it being Flying or Dragon type if he desired the change
@@Chronoflation i like your idea for razor wind. Definitely different.
@@Chronoflation I see what you're saying about Razor Wind. A 2 turn move that's guaranteed to hit and crit. That could work.
The only reason why I'm not sure about the change is because most folks don't use 2 turn moves because they're hard to justify. Even now, in Yellow Legacy, to justify Solarbeam being a 2 turn move, they had to give it 180 base power.
So in order to make Razor Wind compete with that... you have to make it like... 150 or 160 base power. You can't make it 180, because it will always crit and thus be better than Solarbeam, which would invalidate that move again.
I like the idea of it always hitting, but Solar Beam has 100 percent accuracy, which is pretty close to always hitting. Not the same, for sure, but the bypassing accuracy only counts in case of Sand Attack, Smokescreen and Double Team. And we're in Gen 1. So I don't know if the accuracy bypass is such a good bonus for it. Only in Gen 1. In any Gen after Gen 1, your changes to Razor Wind would be totally solid.
Also - and I don't know how this part works - but can Swift miss due to the Gen 1 miss glitch? Because depending on how that works, it might not even be possible to code in a move that can't miss. But then again, a stronger Swift that always crits? That could be useful in its own way.
So it's a good suggestion for sure. Depends on the coding of Gen 1. But that would be a good choice for Gen 3 and forward, where always critting would be useful in a game where the crit formula isn't broken and in a game where evasion moves are more common and there are abilities that also help PKMN dodge moves.
It feels less invasive to me to add moves from gen2 like shadowball in the place of less used/needed gen1 moves then to change the mechanics of well known moves like nightshade
Razor Wind can just be the flying type version of Razor Leaf, though I'm confused as to why it's OP for Cut to increase likely hood of crit than it is for either of these moves.
There's the fact Gen 1 crits work different to every other Gen. Cut's an HM meaning it can be used over and over and a lot of Pokemon get it. For game progression, there'd be no reasonable way to limit the distribution of it.
Some ideas:
- Make Slam and Thrash Dragon type. Then give Dragonite Thrash. OR instead of this Thrash idea, just make Hyperbeam Dragon type perhaps??
- Make Comet Punch and/or Mega Punch Fighting type. Hitmonchan gets a bit shafted since a majority of Gen 1 fighting type attacks are kicks, chops and throws.
- Remove Fire Spin’s trap effect, then boost its damage to make it the mid-game fire move instead of (or along side with) Fire Punch.
- Make Bite Ghost type. If Lick is ghost, I can roll with Bite being ghost too. On top of this, give Bulbasaur line and Charmander line access to Bite, as Squirtle line gets it. Since they’re all reptiles and reptiles often bite, it makes sense for all starters to get Bite. Also, it would give the starters a decent anti-Psychic/Ghost option. On that note, maybe give Pikachu access to it too. The more checks to those types, the better.
- Give Pikachu Learnset access to Low Kick in the early game for Brock. Also, MAYBE give Pikachu access to all elemental punches just for fun. (Pikachu with boxing gloves on IS one of the more iconic Gen 1 moments that the anime gave us, after all.)
- Make Dizzy Punch GHOST type. Now hear me out. Since it is exclusive to Kangaskhan and Professor Oak’s Kangaskhan is infamous as a Ghost-killer despite its normal typing (which is why it gets Scrappy Ability in later gens), this can be the Gen 1 explanation as to how it gained its infamy as such. While also being a strong anti-Psychic/Ghost option. Also, confusion status works well thematically with Ghost type anyway.
Comet/Mega Punch and Mega Kick should absolutely be Fighting type.
Dragon type Hyper Beam should not be a thing. It's balanced as is by the fact it has a resistance and an immunity. Dragon has no resistances in Gen 1.
Razor Wind could be changed to a one-turn Flying-type move with 80 Base Power and 90% Accuracy plus an additional increased crit chance.
@@12triproberts I keep forgetting Gen 1 has weird crit mechanics, thank you for correcting me! 👍
I will give some elaborated sugestions, don't know if you gonna read but here we go:
To start, some conservative sugestions that make the moves still in the simple way of gen 1.
- Cut: I feel like without crit it is in a weak spot when put by side with gen 2. You could give it some effect that bug type moves have, like a chance to poison.
- Fire moves: you realy need a mid tier move. Since you have the "no fist" problem, maybe you should nerf flamethrower to 80 and maybe leave firespin to be the "late game" fire move (maybe with a buff)
- Solarbeam: 180 is to weird, in theory stronger than hyper beam, and in pratice still weaker than Razor Leaf. Please don't do that lol. I aways see it and hyper beam as similars, just inverted. Why don't jus make Solarbeam the grass type version? Maybe put it as 130 power 95% and recharge (fair the accuracy since no good secundary effect in comparison with Fire Blast/Blizzard).
- Sand Attack/Kinesys: I love the mudslap aproach, but seems to much "gen 2". And Sand Attack aways feel like Pidgey move, it would be weird to have in route 1 a damaging ground type move. I think that with Dig at 70 it is ok to not have a weaker move. And Kinesys with better accuracy is enough.
- Ghost moves: make Dream Eater Ghost so you have a coverage against Psychic in TM.
Now to the less conservative aproach I would say
- Cut: You could make it something like the Constrict in bug type, make its power less but with a seccondary Def drop. Like Rock Smash in futures generations.
- Fire moves: Just make Firespin the "Fire Bubblebeam". Dont' need to be a trap move, and maybe the speed drop makes sense with the theme. Or even an attack drop to fit the "burn".
- Solarbeam: Instead of nothing in the first turn, make it as "Synthesis". It fits grass (as Mega Drain heals), and make for some interesting utility.
- Sand Attack/Kinesys: If make it like Mud Slap, them give Pidgey other accuracy move, like Flash.
- Razor Wind: If Sky attack will be flying "Fire Blast", make Razor Wind as flying "Hyper Beam", or even like my conservative "Solar Beam". Since Gust is flying it make no sense to it still be normal.
- Dragon moves: I like Slam. But as the only move, Dragon will cap at 80 BP, 120 with STAB. Why I would use Slam instead of something like Fire Blast with seccondary effect? Maybe Dragon Rage 60 bp and Slam 95 bp? So you make Dragonair usefull until evolution.
- Trap Moves: It is strong but painfully slow. Make that it lasts less turn but doing more damage, so we don't need to wait that Wrap stacks for so long. Just do the damage right away in two or 3 turns.
Can you pleassseeee give Vaporeon, the BUBBLEJET Pokemon, Bubblebeam via level up?
Also what if Razor Wind was the special, flying version of Leaf Blade?
@@12triproberts Tangela doesn’t learn Vine Whip?!
I assume you mean Razor Wind? Because yes - I agree. Wasn’t Razor Wind Scyther’s signature move in the anime? I remember being so confused it wasn’t Flying type. Made sense with Scyther’s second type.
You can make solarbeam like fire blast and hydro pump. One turn move with 125 base power and 85 accuracy so that the grass types will have a strong stab move.
I like some thoughts for sure. I will say razor wind being flying makes since. However I'd hate suggesting a name change, but maybe making it Razorgem(or another stone like name) and giving it the rock type would be different.
For Dragons, I'd say instead of slam, make Hyper Beam a Dragon move. Especially since Lance uses it a ton on his Dragons. Granted, allowing tons of pokemon to learn it would be tricky, though, being dragon instead of normal. I like the sand attack becoming a gen 1 mudslap would be cool. At least it has another damaging move. Also, giving firepunch to electabuzz would be cool as a later learn set move.
I don't get it. If you're serious about completely change how Night Shade work, why not just add Shadow Ball instead?
Damn great job on improving the types that desperatly needed it
Razorwind as a flying type mid-end game move would be nice or a as a move for birds that do not learn drill peck and so much more, like, there are so many ways you could use this.
My best idea is, use it as a discount tailwind. It raises the users speed stat by 1 or 2 and then adjust damage accordingly.
EDIT: You could also make it the lacking 60 BP ghost type move, except stat boost like ominous wind.
Tri attack should be a dragon move. Dragonite is seen on stormy nights aka rain thunder and fire. Would make them seem mythical as a whole
Skull bash probably a rock type move with strength so you can show how hard rocks with more coverage
Mud slap types worh kinesis and sand attack would be great. I'd add them early on for abra so we don't need to grind for it
Splash/hop I'd make a water version of mud slap as a way to show how magicarp survived so long off of luck and not make it a grind fest.
Oh and early exp share system so you can team grind
I never understood how gust was a normal move. It would have been a great early stab move for flying types
Probably change strength to fighting. Or even rock if you want to give a move that move rocks into a rock move. Would be a great stab move.
Cut to bug always a good option. Let's move it to emerald legacy automatically as well.
Bite as ghost would be cool overall. Give more variety to the move
Leech life I'd change to a poison move. Hear me out. With Zubat being the poster child of this move. It would be a better stab move and the move sounds like it poisons you
Edit. Pay day should be a good rock move as you are literally throwing money aka minerals at people. Or ground for coverage.
"Probably change strength to fighting. Or even rock if you want to give a move that move rocks into a rock move. Would be a great stab move. "
Changing Strength typing is a massive change to the game since so many people learn it. It will completely change so many math ups and the move curve of whatever type it goes too.
Plus with cut being bug, strength being normal is no longer redundant.
@@BeyondTrash-xe1vs i mean that's a good thing. Give more variety to the pokemon and allow for a lot more combinations. Imagine Machamp with strength it would be so good as we do get a trade one
Plus it gives a bit more balance to move sets with how op the abra line is and moving rocks is literally what we use it for so it's not a far reach.
@@ivanbluecool Buffing bug and ghost types already does a lot to balance the Abra line tbf.
@@BeyondTrash-xe1vs yeah but it's harder to think of moves in gen 1 to change due to how limiting it is. Gen 3 I already have a lot of ideas of what moves to give those pokemon but yellow is first.
Adding more to the less used types would make the overall game more fun.
Normal already has Body Slam which is slightly stronger and paralyzes and you get it way earlier than Strength. If the coverage is too much, he can always remove it from some Pokemon
Not sure if this has been suggested for Razor Wind, but what about keeping it a 2-turn move and on the first turn you get a critical hit rise. Then there's more risk-reward to it's accuracy as you could have a 160bp move after crit or nothing 25% of the time. Though if you miss, you still have the crit boost for other moves.
Can't wait for the game to come out, Thanks Smith!
Why change Slam to dragon for dragonite to have an attack move instead of just making dragon rage into a traditional attacking move
Or making Hyper Beam Dragon
If the goal is to keep the feel of Gen 1 like you did with CL, you need to be careful. The jank mechanics are what make it Gen 1, and changes like Nightshade (and the implied fix to the Ghost-Psychis interaction) come really close to getting changing the core feel.
man, I remember back when I would use our Game Shark to make any pokemon appear in the wild and be caught, make any items happen, and also make every pokemon have learnset progression like a starter pokemon. This is like the beefed up version of what I used to do and it sounds so fun.
Quick question, is the Kanto Expansion for Crystal Legacy that you mentioned in the release trailer cancelled because of the Yellow Legacy game, or is work continuing on that simultaneously?
In a previous video he stated that it was on the back burner, so we probably wont see it for quite some time if he returns to it.
It probably won't be released until after Yellow and Emerald! So late 2024 at the earliest, probably 2025.
Kicked down the road but not cancelled works for me! Thanks!
One thing I think has been necessarily lost in newer gens where there are hundreds of Pokemon and moves and was never fully implemented well in earlier gens because, well, it's gen 1, is each type having its own unique fighting style influenced by its moves. Like fighting type moves being high risk, high reward with recoil, or poison types focusing on damage over time with low base power on moves but chances to lower defenses and inflict poison.
Making sure that each type has a decent early, mid, and late game option which all function more or less identically isn't a bad idea from a balance perspective, but it does feel like it flattens out the experience of using Pokemon of different types. I think it would be much more interesting to build the moves out from some theme of what it means to fight using grass or bugs or flying
In theory that is a great idea, but in practice it feels almost impossible to balance out 15 different types so that each feels unique and still balanced. Fighting having a cool "High Risk, High Reward"-idea is cool but extremly useless if Fighting moves are so bad no one ever uses them.
3:33 "Cut would be way too overpowered."
My brain is just flat-out refusing to process that statement.
Personally think making Bite a Ghost move would be a really great balance change, the only issue is it looks so wrong type wise but pretty much functions the same.
For Bide, I think boosting defensive stats is a good idea
Like the first turn (or, turns) you can’t attack your opponent but your defenses are buffed so you can take a hit more easily, then after you attack your stats revert to normal, kind of like Stockpile and Spit Up
Razor Wind is a tough one. It obviously should be flying type, I don't think there's much room for discussion there. This also gives it an opportunity to fill in as a stronger stab flying move for Pokémon who don't learn drill peck nor sky attack such as Butterfree, Venomoth(not STAB), Farfetch'd and Golbat.
The move in its modern incarnation has two key features: It takes two turns, and it has increased crit chance.
I think at least one of these traits must survive unless you are willing to forgo its identity.
Butterfree, Venomoth, and Golbat are all fast enough that an increased crit move would guaranteed crit. I think this is the trait that should stay. It helps the move stand out, and the idea of attacking with "razor-sharp winds" makes me feel as though the crit chance fits.
I think the move should see a major decrease in power, however. Personally, I'd put it at 35 or 40 BP. This will make it a solid ultimate flying move for Butterfree, Venomoth, and Golbat.
Butterfree only has gust otherwise, which is far too weak.
Venomoth doesn't even have a flying move, and while it may not be a flying type, it does have wings and fly. It's ridiculous for it to not have a single flying move.
Farfetch'd only has peck and fly. Fly is comparable, however. But it being an HM and a two turn moves does make them notably distinct. Additionally, Farfetch'd has become synonymous with critical hits, with its signature item the leek. I think this fits nicely into its character.
Golbat will have a solid flying move in wing attack already, but this could serve as a step up from that.
It won't make a notable difference for the legendary birds (and Aerodactyl) since they already have good stab in Sky Attack.
There are a few things to consider though. First and foremost, there are far more Pokémon that learn Razor Wind. It's a completely unnecessary flying move for the Pidgey line which already has gust, wing attack, and sky attack. It would add a powerful stab flying option to Dragonite which could unbalance it. It's arguably already redundant for Farfetch'd.
Then there's the big issue of all the Pokémon who aren't flying type that learn it. I don't think it's unreasonable that an attack based on wind should be flying type, but giving a powerful flying attack these Pokémon greatly changes the balance of the game. If it's possible to remove moves from the movepool, then I believe it would absolutely have to go from Kabutop's and Venusaur's movepool.
That's my idea for Razor Wind.
TLDR: My idea for Razor Wind is a 35 BP flying type move with increased crit chance. This serves to give a strong flying type stab to Pokémon who lack drill peck and sky attack.
The way I treat razor wind in my edits is flying type slash, but due to Gen 1’s crit mechanic I can see that being an issue. I’ve also seen someone say to make it like swift.
Maybe Sandslash can learn pin missile to give it coverage against grass.
I am down with Slam as a Dragon move, honestly, both for what it'd give Dragonite and for it giving some other Pokemon an interesting coverage move.