There isn't a BYD corrosion problem - this is why!
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- Опубліковано 28 лют 2023
- In this video, we look at the furore over corrosion on a wrecked BYD in Australia. Is there corrosion? Yes. Is it a problem? Unlikely. We confirm BYD's are galvanised, and discuss why what we are seeing is unlikely to go any further.
This video contains material under fair use - critique or discussion - from:
Facebook - Juan Cito Perez
UA-cam - BYD Global - Авто та транспорт
Good explanation, debunking all the click bait headlines on this one. 👍
Well just for anyone watching this, we've had multiple rust issues now being reported by NZ users from bonnet all the way down to the structure.
@@rick_takahashi look forward to those owners posting their real life experiences. Cheers.
Articles and videos reporting on aspects of brand new EVs are very common now. They can be helpful to people considering a new car purchase. It is perhaps too early to expect this, but competent analysis on how various brands and models age would be even more valuable. This video is a helpful contribution.
Need more reports about the rust cases. I found a lot of BYD e2 used in Russia and Turkey exported with Chinese letter logo on the rear. I think those are made for Chinese market but exported informally, but I haven't seen any complains about rust. It would have obvious rust in Russia because of icy environment.
Well done. It's a pity ev direct Australia don't inform us.
They would need to know what a communication process was!
Thanks for all the works on this issue!
If people care to look at the post by Juan you will find he has been very open and honest about this. When, in the thread I asked him to show me similar components on similar vehicle of similar age and exposure he did so openly and in my view the similar components with similar exposure on an ionic 5 that he had displayed to me that this issue of assembling prior to galvanising was industry wide.
Yes, I have no real criticism towards Juan. What he is doing is a cool project. More what others used his material to do.
Thank you for facts and logic, great video.
Hi, I have used BYD EV cars. No problem. Easy to charge and long range 405 km,/ to 680 km/100% charge. Its battery power only dropped 2 to 5% about 3 to 6 months even my cars are not in used. Good cars.
Actually, I think you didn't look close enough. The videos posted showing the door brackets being removed actually do show early signs of corrosion. It's also obvious that it is bare metal behind where the wings and door brackets are bolted on. This is why there is rust. The cars are dipped after these components are bolted on. I'd like to know if other manufacturers anticipate this by applying a treatment to these area before they are dipped. Personally I'm going to do my own research at a wreckers, especially as I am old enough to remember cars rusting. I do agree it's not likely to be a structural issue, but nonetheless I do think it's an area for improvement. I have an ATTO 3 on order and I'm not cancelling at this point, but it is something I feel needs a closer look, and BYD may improve it's manufacturing as a result.
If this video is from New Zealand I'd be sceptical as we're compromised. Look elsewhere for unbiased opinions.
So what is the update
Thanks for your work and clarifying, much better than other clickbaiting videos 😏
All that being said. Thanks for the video. I think you have been as informative as you can.
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent info! Thanks for clarifying!👍
Thanks for the Video. Really appreciated
Would be interesting to compare BYDs process of electro galvanising vs how Toyota does it.
Storm in a tea cup
Its all good until it isn’t
@@timkiwi yes but in 20-30 years it doesn’t matter
Great! Thank you for your tips
Wow thorough explanation
John Cadogan did a video on this subject a couple of days ago and basically came to the same conclusion.
John's video is excellent. Normally not a fan of his work, but he clearly has a lot of knowledge on the topic. I believe he has an engineering background.
Thanks for your video.
You should do more vlogs. Good job and thanks
Hmm, thanks. Any topics you want me to cover?
I watched the whole video. Still not convinced. I've got a paint stripped bonnet that's been sitting in my workshop for about 4 months. Hasn't been galvanized or anything but it also hasn't rusted either. The rust I saw in those pictures was odd... Did you notice that other unpainted areas were not rusted? Only the bits around the bolt holes seem to have been. If it was sitting outside in a wreckers yard, more of the unprotected surfaces should have been rusted. To me, it looks like galvanic corrosion caused by dissimilar metals making contact. BYD should just fix it. If that's the only complaint just use the right bolts, nuts and washers in the first place and you won't have a problem or lose customer trust. Now isn't the time to be making customers worry about their atto 3's. Just do things right and grow your brand.
The pictures look like galvanic corrosion to me. And yes it will keep rusting. Rust never sleeps. The rust where the bumper was removed didnt look good to me. How many panel beaters see that rust while working on new cars. Not many id guess.
Thanks , good to know. :)
Yes not a problem and I'm very disappointed that the Electric Viking jumped on the it is bad wagon I have stopped watching his videos after that video.Very disappointed that he is not a practical person and jumped on the hype path do some research how rust works first
Difference between EV channels dedicated to education and real life experiences instead of chasing clicks and $$. I am bias thought 🤣
He did say that the car is still pretty good though
So you weren't concerned about any of the other inconsistencies in their videos then?
Wow.
@@ElectricCarAustralia How is their opinion any different to the one expressed here in terms of "education and real life experience then."
@@Rex-ww4cw Did he ever do the promised review before he sold it?
Can't really watch his videos as they're just so one eyed that it's concerning really imo.
Good review. Wondering if the level of zinc galvanizing is on par with other manufacturers. I think I heard 70gms/m2 of steel sheet panelling.
We have someone locally that is going to try measure it for us against other brands.
@@EVsBeyond any progress?
@@EVsBeyond update please?
Thank you for your thoughts. I think the important question is whether we have a proper service process in place for NZ. Tesla seems to fail with regard to this. BYD seems to be strong on the North Island, I am not sure with regard to the South Island. But thats something the current owner may be able to comment on, that would be very helpful.
They seem to have a solid network in the South Island and growing. They also have an approved panel and paint network which is impressive for a new brand.
Unfortunately the byd response nor this video refers to the recent NZ case where immediately following an accident rust was evident on the door hinges, which were ripped off by the impact and also the B pillar.
Can you direct me to any information on this?
Over the last decade I’ve not seen a single late model vehicle have rust behind impact bars etc. sounds like one of us techs have you the “yeah it’ll be fiiiine” speech hahaha
Regarding the protection for the radiator what is your reasoning for this not being necessary? I checked mine after 4000km it has a few dents in it already, considering I’ve only been driving around town 99% of the time it’s a little concerning. I contacted BYD they said it’s normal but welcomed me to install aftermarket grill protection if I want
I spoke to a technician who agreed it is normal. And there is no evidence of a wider issue. There are however concerns in some quarters the reduction in airflow from some home made solutions may not be ideal.
@@EVsBeyond There isn't much reduction in air flow through a flyscreen, at 40+K/hr air is forced through.. I suspect they have far less effect on air flow than those Frunk inserts that are being sold, which completely block air over the top of the drive train. With now 3 or 4 documented cases of drained cooling systems from radiator damage, I'll take the gamble and keep the mesh in place. I can't afford 4 weeks without a car because EVDirect does not have the special coolant in Oz...
Good job on the video! Very informative.
BYD Aus has just issued a statement regarding the manufacturing processes.
Some 'Juan' who started all this fear mongering now has the balls to ask BYD for help with remanufacturing a 2011 Fiat Ducatto with BYD components from the wreck he bought.
Bet he learns a lot more about rust once he starts on the Fiat!!
Juan has done nothing wrong. I think that is important. He has been very clear with the dates involved, and showed the hinges.
Thanks for the video. I'd have liked to see some closeups of the car's undercarriage with the plastic shielding removed.
I will counter your final remarks about the warranty though. When I've dealt with commercial machinery, rust and corrosion (even rust bubbling up under the paint due to poor panel treatment by the manufacturer) is specifically excluded in the warranty. You'll find no acceptance of fault from manufacturers for corrosion.
BYD seems to be no different. From their Australian warranty: 1.2 Warranty Limitations and Exclusions; 1.2.4. Damage or corrosion due to environment, chemical treatment
The poor grammar and unfinished sentence is in the original doc. "Corrosion due to environment, chemical" Hmm... what corrosion isn't from the environment or chemical treatment? Whether from the galvanising process, or rain - everything likely to cause corrosion is excluded from the warranty. The warranty doesn't cover corrosion unless you've got a legal case that is going to invalidate that exclusion (eg. violating your country's minimum mandated warranty, or maybe verifiable proof of mis-manufacture).
This isn't unfair. I suspect that other manufacturers would have a similar clause, but it does render your reassurance at the end of the video meaningless.
We may do that at some point. We have some additional footage.
Re the warranty, NZ’s document is far simpler, and our consumer law would override. I can’t speak for the Australian experience.
ACCC Australian consumer law section 54 consumer rights and guidelines for reasonable durability. Rigby vs LDV automotive. These are facts not opinions
I've always wondered why manufacturers don't use nicopp brake and fuel lines, at least in salty climates or on AWD packages and such. Then you'll won't have to worry about your lines rusting in 10-20 years. It's almost like they don't want cars to last that long.
It’ll be cost related, even if it’s only 50 cents per vehicle. They’ve only gotta make the vehicle make it out of warranty, 10 years down the line? Not their problem
What did they change in the app after watching this channels video?
On the beta, you could start the car/ac with the car unlocked, and the car could just be driven away. That is a security and safety issue. Now they ask you to unlock the car - either by key or app - before it can be driven away.
Bying a new car from a new producer is not easy. Living in Sweden with salty roads in winter. Remember when some Japanese cars entered the market arround 1975. After 5 years looked very fine inside. Fell appart outside. Time will tell.
BYD New Zealand mentioned they use highest global quality standards in manufacturing their vehicles but Is there any standard in vehicle galvanizing?
I guess you can look to the fact that the majority of brands use the same process.
And now, "we" just discovered that BYD is using forbidden substances, like Hexavalent Chromium in some vehicles. Definitely, a brand to avoid.
Thanks Bro, I've been chewing my nails😬
Glad I could help
I don't believe that it is "arguable" that hot-dipped gal is better than electroplating. It's chalk and cheese; hot-dipped gal is far superior. Electroplating is simply cheaper.
On the Viking, we need him a lot. Some commentators here find him too combatative, but that is just a slight counter to the army of paid schills who ridiculously negate on EVs. Did he make a mistake? Maybe (those door hinges look dubious, though I'm no expert) but the idea of him being anti-byd is unfounded.
I didn't suggest he was. And his video wasn't even particularly negative. The title and title card sure were though.
I got 11 year old car with less corrosion in bolt and fixing holes I live in a wet country that uses rock salt winter and summer
if its galvanised why cant BYD states that in the statement, rather then beating around the bush?
a little off topic , (rust will take a little while to show ) IF BYD doesn't have a dealer chain to save costs etc , where do you take the car for warranty issues , like window switches or possible minor non warranty accident damage , say a broken wheel or bent suspension arms ? They list My car as a service dealer but I doubt My Car , would stock replacement parts .
In New Zealand there is a dealer chain and good pets supply. Australia has a major dealer network as a partner (Eagers) so I suspect you will be covered.
@@EVsBeyond I might ring Eager's tomorrow if I get a chance and see how available a rear lower control arm is .
Don't worry, the spare parts should be available in the warehouse, it is easily to be delivered in a short time.
@5:36 Are you joking ? You just passed whole fuelds of rust...
Really. I have to question the concept of assembling the components prior to galvanising.
How does the zinc coating get to the joins between components.
I am not saying Byd are the only company that do this but it is an obvious flaw in the process and would appear to be to minimise cost.
It is the same way all cars are assembled. Theory being no oxygen, no corrosion.
@@EVsBeyond at this stage the theory has been proven to be false.
Even the door hinges you referred to show corrosion.
I believe the issue is the new process of galvanising.
It is flawed and yet as I understand better for the environment t as a whole so it is a give and take scenario.
Having seen evident rust on unregistered Chinese vehicles,at the dealers,I do wonder how long these cars from China will last.
If the people getting worked up over this ever look under brand new Ford trucks, they'll have a heart attack. Surface rust all over the place.
They should use hot dip galvanized
Red rust is red rust...
This video seems to be a Commercial for BYD . The rust may be minimal now , time will tell the truth . This vehicle WOULD rust where I live in the rust belt . Salt applied to the road surfaces is common in the rust belt and it creeps into every seam of a vehicle. Galvanized areas of vehicles do rust if the vehicle is used extensively in the rust belt . Many people apply a lanolin based salt shield and wash very well under our vehicles every year and they still rust slowly .
BYD smothers the underside of the car in an additional ruse protectant as well.
Well scripted and read, but totally agree nothing you worry about.. Was this written by NZ BYD?
Absolutely not written by BYD New Zealand.
@@EVsBeyond just seems you are reading a script, not your normal free flowing talk. All as I had suspected, nothing to worry about yet...
@@malster181 What! he might have prepared in advance the content of the video instead of just coming up with it on the spot? Oh the scandal.
You may benefit from reading a court judgement made in Queensland, Australia against BYD. Company refused to warranty rust issues of a vehicle because the owner worked at beach location. Court action was required to get a full refund of the purchase. Worth a read.
You are confusing BYD with LDV.
@@EVsBeyond I could very well be. I apologize for my error. How could I confuse one Chinese car builder with another, especially with just three letter initials. I could say I was just testing you, but I stuffed up and I am sorry for not checking before I opened my mouth.
@@haydnwilde Hey, we all make mistakes. I may get proven wrong on the corrosion one day!
@@haydnwilde LDV is an European car builder.
@@madsam0320 Sorry, I confused them with BYD. (Three letter initials). I should have verified instead of relying on imperfect memory.
Wow, under the BYD looks horrific; what a mess; I was actually quite taken aback by that view on the hoist. Even the exposed front and rear edges of the battery pack should be a concern.
Compare that with under a Tesla Y, where the underbody is entirely flat - even the lower suspension arms at the rear are flat and flush with the openings for them in the underbody panel. BYD really needs to lift their came - it might not seem like much, but there are efficiencies in the Tesla approach. Even their wheel designs and wheel covers play a part. Just because most people don't see it, doesn't mean that it isn't important.
Those videos were done by EV haters and should be not watched as they are a waste of your time
Where the European corrosion warranty is 30 years, Byd's seems very faithless.
For Mercedes. And apparently there is a lot you have to do to keep it. A few other Euros are 12. VW reduced their 12 year warranty to seven a few years back, 6 on their utes. Byd at 6 is in line with most mainstream vehicles.
@EVs & Beyond Anti corrosion warranty
Audi 12 year
BMW 12 year
VW 12 year not 7
Toyota 12 year
TESLA. 12 year
Citroën 12 year
Renault 12 year
Skoda 12 year
SEAT 12 year
Mercedes 30 year.
Considering we are moving into the age of longevity and sustainability of that which we use. It is desirable to move away from built in obsolescence. Where cars are to have a life of in excess of 1 million miles, the parts and the bodies should be durable.
I do not see this amongst Chinese car makers, where not even galvanisation or electrolysis is taken into account in the local market, only price.
Byd is the foremost Chinese maker but their shares are being dumped by Berkshire Hathaway after making only 2 billion profit rather than the targeted 6 billion, as they consider them no longer fit for purpose.
Generally life extending products cannot be expected from China and the western consumer needs to come to the reality of this statement.
This is an apologetic video for BYD (and in fact other Chinese manufacturers). Galvanising is rarely used within China for cars to be sold in China and for many exported to countries other than America, Australia and Western Europe. The trouble is that the same factory makes all cars and with Chinese internal management policies, it is probable that some if not many non-galvanized bodies end up being exported so it is a game of roulette.
Bur rust is only one problem. There are many areas where Chinese cars are cheaper because of cost shredding in areas the average consumer won't see such as brake rotors being less than 70% of the thickness of Japanese, Korean, American and European cars.
The quoted source for claiming Chinese made cars for the domestic market are not galvanised was from an Indian article in 2018.
Given the fast paced development of Chinese carmakers, I would bet that is not the case anymore. Besides I doubt BYD would risk warranty claims by using non galvanised steel nowadays even for the domestic market in China.
Remember Chinese car buyers are not stupid and have the options of foreign brands too.
@@1812JSmith It happens TODAY. I have family and friends in China. I knew nothing of the Indian article.
Chinese whose income allows them to buy Japanese, South Korean or German brand cars DO NOT touch Chinese brand vehicles.
I lived and worked in China for around 6 years. I worked in and even for, Chinese factories (not auto - but large organization). Management is first class. My then wife (Chinese) purchased brand new, a 2010/11 BYD F0 (petrol car). She has had it ever since, and apart from basic service, has spent NOTHING on it. No rust, no issues whatever. Also a great little manual car to tool around the hills in. I enjoyed it. :)
@Garry Lambert i lived and worked there too. Ttere are good manufacturing organisations that do things right, especially if they are subjected to foreign quality controls and inspections (my friend's uncle had a long-running contract to supply a high tech Japanese company with compinents) however the majority will cut every corner they can to bolster profits
There wasn't one Chinese brand that came close to what most Europeans and Australians would call acceptable quality and even the SAIC-GM factory produced some real crap under the GM brand labels.
@@garyquinlan4075
Rubbish. Chinese are buying high end Chinese brands vehicles in doves. Hi-phi is most popular in expensive cars above a certain price. Nios Hongqis Denzas Avatrs are gaining share. China will have an international space station for heaven's sake. Their quality has improved and as per several channels is at par or better than Germans.
Yep they are rusting, they are very poor quality
Ask Russians they forced to buy chinese and have some message to you.
This is not a light oxidation for new car....
The car looks nice on the surface but the under carriage looks horrible-like it is made from scrap metal.
I disagree. The structure underneath looked very well done. What makes it look a little off is early export cars were slathered with a corrosion-protection paint underneath that is very streaky.
Its chinese, so its attacked lmao
Hot dipping is the industry standard as it produces a better coating other paint protection on top of the zinc is often electrostatic based. So European and Japanese started doing this a long time ago. The electro plating was not as good as the hot did and it did not give uniform coverage that's why the move to hot dipping. Hot dipping is vastly superior in area where movement or rubbing as the fe and hot zn form a alloy surface making less pron to scraping
Electro galvanising is a thin coat that sit on the surface it easily scratch and does not last when damaged.
You are clearly not a scientist as you would know that hot dipping not only causes the iron zinc alloy but the thicker zinc coating acts as a sacrificial metal prevent rusting for up to 50 years or more.
This is why the automotive industry standard is hot dip. You are clearly reading from byd script and you should have independently research subject as you look foolish.
Hot dipping and electro plating should be done before sealant is put on the car so again I find it odd that the sealant is put on before either galvanising process.
The worry here is the process 8s not working and there for there for the vehicle should go through accelerated testing. Byd should ge open to testing by independent testers and public results once you get a reputations its hard to shift
Your not helping because your explanation of there process contradicts the industry standard and independent research.
Electro galvanising is good for things coats it's does not provide protent when scratched or and surface exposed to rubbing or scratching
To find the truth visual,surface inspection is not good enough. I would be concerned with what you have shown.trying to spin this nonsense about sealant trapped air etc is rubbish
Vehicles will require strip down rock salt covered winter road is worse that coastal exposure. So Europeans will be worried.
You are entitled to your opinion on some things but I will challenge you on you on 'that is why the industry standard is hot dip'. That has not been true for a long time. Japanese manufactures are virtually all electroplating, as are China. The Koreans electrodip, or coat during the steelmaking process. In the US some Fords, and the Corvette, are hot dipped, everything else is electroplate. In Europe, some Audis, Porsche, and some Volvo models are still hot dipped. The 'standard' is now electroplating for better or worse.
@@EVsBeyond well its not my opinion the information I gave you came from major manufacturers from the far east. I checked with Toyota and honda they are still still using hot dip steel followed by a electro static painting process.
Also checked with hyundia and kia the use hot dipped steel as there primary system.
Because it bonds better repair better when damaged . Electro plating on to no treated steel is no good for car as the bond is not as strong.
They said that they do not the the same steel in Austral Asian markets as the do in Europe because Europe salts its roads year round. The exposure to corrosive salt solutions in Europe require more robust protection.
That why for euro models hot dip is standard base metal treatment. Several Asian manufactures got caught out by this and there car suffered severe premature rusting . If Byd think they can get away without this extra protection in the uk they may find there brand badly damaged . GM tried electro plating only and they ended up having to spray protection on to the cars every service.
Also I have spoken with byd import agent who have said all UK northern european vehicle from 2023 will use hot dipped steel in there manufacturing processes. They recognise that 12 year warrenty and high rock salt environments means extra protection is needed
Sam from electric Viking seems to be a paid vassal for Tesla. He created the enormous alarming panic that BYD cars were a probing rust problem. Sam doesn’t miss any opportunity to denigrate BYD and other Chinese Ev brands and any excuse to bring up Tesla to shower it with adoration.
I eventually saw Sam wasn’t an unbiased honest analyst. Seems he’s being subsidized by Tesla as a propagator. I ended up canceling my subscription because his BS got too obvious
I have several issues with your thought process. You own a BYD, so I would say your opinion is biased and the way you talk about the vehicle , I think most people would agree. I understand how modern rust resistant steel is made for cars today and you state that it’s not a Problem for this car due to the manufacturing process, you don’t know exactly how the steel was processed on this car. BYD China did not give the statement in your video, BYD New Zealand did. Also, if you believe anything that a Chinese Company tells you about their products , you have some serious issues. The fact is that there is rust on those cars you spoke about. It was located in spots on the car that are very important, structurally, to hold the body together. There is no rust protection at these points , you can clearly see this in the videos and you agreed with this statement in your video., by stating that the frame was bolted together and then dipped. The fact that the steel around these connection points may be treated is irrelevant. The rust may take longer to spread, but those specific points will continue to rust. Rust is insidious, it will find a weak point and attack steel, those weak points on this car are the most important connection points for the frame! Rust was already present at these locations prior to the bolts being removed, because that steel had not been treated. There is no way to tell how fast it will spread, time will tell. That is a fact! Specifically though, if a bolt location rusts, that will destroy the integrity of the frame on the vehicle. You also looked under the car, noting you saw no rust there. You also stated yourself that is was mostly plastic, then you stated you did find rust on it; rear bumper, hidden under the bumper! The fact is that BYD uses different rust measures for their cars in different markets, that’s is what they say. For instance , for cars made for the Chinese market they do not have the same rust resistant process. If rust is on steel, it will spread, no matter how the steel is treated, it will just take longer if it is treated correctly. BYD New Zealand stated that they have a 6 year warranty, most manufacturers give a 10 year warranty on rust issues. That alone tells me that BYD cars don’t have the same rust inhibitors built into their steel, because their warranty is 40% less than most other companies. The steel will continue to degrade and rust on a treated piece of steel, but the amount of zinc used is very important. The rust attack is muted by the zinc, over time the zinc will degrade and the rust will be visible as the zinc is sacrificed. The rust is there, its aggressive growth is just slowed by the added zinc coating. We don’t know how much zinc is being used on these cars, we do know that at the visible rust locations, it was not present or not enough. The cars you discussed with the visible rust were only 10 months old. Your car had a rust issue and it can’t be much older that that. So based on your own admission, this BYD vehicle does have a rust issue, you showed it on your own car! Did you get paid or receive and incentivize to make this video. I just disputed everything in your video with facts.
+17 forever ! That was one enormous wall of text which just boils down to this quote from you "if you believe anything that a Chinese Company tells you"
Basically you are biased and bigoted towards anything Chinese so that is your actual issue, not his "thought process".
@@ensteffo ha ha, look, you should be biased about any Chinese made product. They use slave labor to produce their products. They are a Communist country that destroys their citizens freedoms. You didn’t dispute anything I said in my response, because I used facts. All you did was list hypotheticals. So, you attack me for listing facts? It’s factual about what I just said about the Chinese. All of their industries are supporting by the CCP. Keep your Chinese car and watch it rust away. Don’t attack me personally, dispute my facts! We’re you paid to make or support this video?
@@ensteffo I am keen on purchasing a BYD. He does make a good point. Was the content creator receiving compensation. I thought it was a thorough video. I know that oxidising in industry doesn't make structural I beams collapse however cars are different. I would like to know why BYD doesn't have a 10 year rust warranty.
In short, the rust shown on the cars are on the most important integral parts of the car. There should not be any rust whatsoever on an almost brand new car. Because the rust will spread over time. The rust protection will not prevent it, only slow it down a bit.
Just wait until these parts start to fall off. I have seen brand new chinese products full of rust, there is definately a lack of quality in metal products coming from China, same problems with LDV. Dude you are looking at a brand new car, give it some time.