Who wins? 300 Vikings vs 300 Phoenix
Вставка
- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- Professional StarCraft 2 Tournament: • MASS ZERGLING Floods! ...
Starcraft 2 is a Science Fiction Real Time Strategy & Tactics game by Blizzard Entertainment. Download and play free at www.starcraft2...
--
Gaming, Starcraft 2, SC2
#Starcraft2 #SC2 #RTS
Imagine if they had the AOE missiles from the campaign.
No bro, es que Los Libertadores son el equivalente a las Valkirias del Brood War SC1, poseen misiles aoe damage
@@cciagumon0078 he is referring about the AoE missile upgrades from the Hyperion Armory in the Wings of Liberty campaign.
And the extra +2 range lol. So busted
Or Goliaths from the first craft extra range.
I was expecting the AoE missiles and when I noticed they didn't have them, I knew the phoenix's would win.
I always forget how fragile vikings are! I thought they would crush the Phoenixes!
1 v 1 vikings win, but phoenix shoot faster so in large numbers take out units quicker.
speed, area of effect and splash damage work their magic in high enough numbers.
Vikings are good vs armored air. Phoenix I think is considered light
@@kingpet weird take since phoenixes are better vs light units wich vikings arent
Neither Viking nor Phoenix deal splash damage. I think this outcome would be the same even with less number of units.
@@AdmiralBison they lose a a 1v1 too. Even without range for phoenix. They cost less gas though, and are just straight up better against flyers cuz 9 range is good, 7 isnt.
i always love hearing broodwar music, it just really brings back the memories
Go go go! Rock And Roll!
You wanna peace of me boy?
RIP Blizzard...all those fun LAN parties in 2000.
same, sometimes when i write i put on the old starcraft music just chill with and get the thoughts bouncing
Me 2. Look up here on UA-cam the Battlecake band's covers of the Broodwar Terran theme. Those kids nailed it!
Vikings also do an insane amount of overkill in high numbers.
Yup the Viking is better at killing capital ships then harass units like the Phoenix
If this was liberators then the Phoenix would have lost
Even if the supplies and minerals are the same, there's 7500 more gas in the phoenixes. I'd be more surprised if they didn't win.
please recalculate... its 7500 so thats still more but a lot less than you wrote lol. the Phoenixes cost a third of the Gas more and same mineral cost so while its understandable they beat the vikings pound for pound with 72 remaining I'd say it depends on how scarce Gas is at the time (if the value of the gas is much higher than the minerals in the game or if there are essentially unlimited bases with gas mining lol), if both have a lot of gas the trade is much better for the phoenixes as overall resources lost are higher for the vikings but if on a low economy das mining in particular is limited due to less bases this may even be a pyrrhic victory for them. Same holds true for smaller numbers ofc
@@arvedpittner9782 Yep, you're right, that's a brain fart right there from me, fixed it. That said, I think there's very few situations in which toss spends less gas in general - mostly centering around zealot runbys. Toss tends to be quite high in gas expenditure otherwise.
@@mckendrick7672 Yeah absolutely agree! Not to mention that Terran will also not fight "mass phoenix" with mass viking but just build a bunch of marines most of the time... Has to be a very specific scenario were Phoenixes and Vikings battle for "air superiority" in significant numbers for more than one engagement (because both players would likely switch into ground to air quickly)
It's not like equal cost means anything, if the unit would be hard countered. It's this case it is rather surprising as the phoenix is not designed to counter armored units. But then again, the viking is not designed to counter light units either.
You are not paying the extra gas for the fighting power. You are paying for the extreme mobility and harras potential.
Vikings are terrible at most combat which is balanced by the fact that terran already got decent basic air defence with marines and thors.
it is reasonable. The Phoenix is a pure air to air weapon with extra magic. The Viking can transform to ground weapon, and it's cheaper.
And it has a maaaassive range advantage which isn't really utilised here in the video
@@graog123aaaaand they can be produced two at a time. All very extremely balanced obviously
/sarcastic
True. Every race's units is lacking some features but is compensated by another
@@graog123Vikings can't really kite when they have such a move speed and attack speed disadvantage. Even if it's Terran Alphastar vs Protoss Alphastar levels of micro it wouldn't matter, because Protoss Alphastar would focus attacks just enough that they'd not overkill, and the faster attack speed would then matter even more.
People keep forgetting that Vikings are actually extremely weak. They fire too slowly. Their strength comes from their immense range and kiting. They pretty much lose against anything in the air in a straight up fight. I think landed Vikings do beat Stalkers in a brawl though which is kind of funny 😂
Landed Vikings are actually pretty decent on the ground and do in fact smack Stalkers. They also 2 shot probes and do bonus to T and P buildings.
@TheMuffinman191 Yea they are very good vs T and P ground mech units. I wonder why the game hates armored units so much lol. Everything does bonus damage to armored or mechanical or both.
Prior to vikings receiving the 10 HP buff in LotV, they used to lose to corruptors 1v1. Now, they beat them, though it only takes 1 more attack to kill them.
This fight doesnt show the most op viking strength, that 9 range + scan. In real fight player play with hit n run or kiting style, surely +9 range always win. Of course 30 marine with 17 dps will hide under viking
Basically: Phoenix have 35 more HP than vikings do (120/60 to 135), and also regen shields if they're not being attacked. Phoenix also have a faster fire rate than vikings do by quite a significant amount.
Interestingly, neither side actually gains a bonus against the other - phoenix do bonus to light, but despite having 0 armour, vikings are actually armoured units. Phoenix are light units, and vikings to bonus damage to armour.
i have a feeling that the largest benefit phoenix has is the smaller collision hitbox so they stack easier/quicker than the vikings allowing them to apply damage quicker removing more enemy dps.
Protoss have the best looking bullets
they don't have bullets
People forget Vikings are a lot cheaper
25/25 isnt a lot, its like the least amount of difference it can get.
@@einerheit5871 would you rather have 5 of something or 4 of something?
@@atalkingcat73 both of you seem to ignore that the stated mineral cost for both units is exactly the SAME? the rate of cost is NOT "4:5" its 1/3 more gas and same minerals (cost for viking 150/75 and for phoenix 150/100) by pure resources that would mean for every 6 phoenixes you get another viking and looking at this battle the phoenixes would probably win 6v7. so it depends on the state of the game wether or not this trade is fine, in a late game pure phoenixes would likely trade better because you can mine the entire map worth of gas geysers and vikings much higher losses drain minerals more quickly than the phoenix losses drain the gas, but in the early game it may be closer to even. Anyway the point is completely moot, because for this amount of phoenixes Protoss can just built stalkers and templar to kill it from the ground and with storm while terran will kill "mass phoenix" with marines obviously
Cheaper and they can land to become ground units. They sacrifice their pure anti-air role for more versatility. Outcome makes perfect sense.
@@kibbles5724 Well Phoenixes also have SOME anti ground capapbillity with the lifts but yeah I also think Vikings are simply more versatile.
(Check edit)
pretty much what i expected. 1v1 the viking wins but in these massive battles a lot of the attacks from the vikings hit already dead phoenixes so its complete overkill
edit: nvm viking loses 1v1
Wrong: a showcasing of both units shows that the Pheonix wins in a 1v1 by a decently large margin. So it's 300x 1v1 losses against the Vikings, and projectile overkill would not have changed the results at all.
@@joshuakim5240 mb
@@joshuakim5240 mb
@@joshuakim5240 oh shi mb cuh
@@Kern361 true, but phoenix are faster and can attack while moving
The micro in this was next level. could barely even see it.
The phoenixs advantage is it can kite without stopping, which in theory means it takes on less damage on average compared to the Viking.
This shows the balance decisions in the game pretty clearly. Phoenixes are pretty close to exclusive air to air fighters. The Vikings can transform and fight on the ground. That extra flexibility has to be paid back somewhere else, so when they go toe to toe and that flexibility doesn't matter the Vikings lose.
I figured the phoenix's would win. But I didn't think it would be that one sided.
lanchester square law in full effect. small advantage at the start snowballs really hard.
I stay up at night thinking about who would win and lose in these scenarios
In addition to Phoenixes shooting faster than Vikings, Phoenixes also has shield to absorb damage before suffering life damage which is a huge plus since the Vikings absorb life damage right from the get go.
that makes no sense, phoenix necessarily have fewer hit points because they have shields, it isn't good for the reason you stated, shields also have 0 armor without upgrades.
Most iconic music
Phoenix is a dedicated air superioroty unit...
Phoenix are op af. Now do this again with shield batteries and auto repair scvs to see if phoenix or vikings come out on top.
HOOOOOOLD IT! If phoenix really can hold their own against vikings, then why in the name of hell do protoss players not build a force to protect their colossi and carriers???
The phoenix doesnt win in a 1v1 or 10v10 for that matter, but the higher the number the better they become against vikings, since they shoot faster, meaning they switch to a new target quicker.
and if the terran can mikro the colossi are dead anyways
@@felixtpholm9377 So how many vikings would you realistically need to cover your Colossi? Protoss players keep going for Tempests, which are more fragile than soap bubbles.
because fights don't happen this way. you rarely find vikings fighting at the front let alone gunning it mano-a-mano with air.
@@KimmyR3 But toss players usually cede the air entirely, and fight from the ground. Yet the vikings still get through the stalkers and archons to blast the expensive units.
If we take into account micro and Vikings out ranging the phoenix slightly I think we’d get a lot closer match up.
Which is impressive give how much less gas they cost. I’ve always maintained that Protoss/Zerg end game air would be unbeatable if they had Vikings instead of corrupters or phoenixes.
People often have misconceptions that Viking is tough and Phoenix is weak, actually it is other way around
Long, massive fleet battle,like that, phoenixes benefit from shield recovery, since any shot on a Phoenix that isn't followed through with quick death is a wasted sjot since the Phoenix shield goes back up to full. I think. Could be wrong.
The range advantage of the Vikings made them lose!
With the ones at the front got focused so hard, while vikings are free for all and because its computer then it just fires on whatever is on range
If vikings are from the WoL, phoenix would be scrapped
Knew the Vikings would lose. They are too strong on the ground.
I didn't expect it. Cruisers can beat Phoenixes with the same cost. How did Vikings lose?
BCs have armor, and Phoenix damage is divided into two projectiles, both of which are affected by armor. The extra armor has therefore doubled effect. You'd rather have a big chunky hit like Tempests vs the BCs' armor (or spells, but that's another matter) rather than multiple small hits.
Phoenix beats Viking 1v1 because of superior stats, and the Viking's range advantage is neutered by the Phoenix's superior movement speed, which means that the Viking can't really kite and is forced to duke it out. The Phoenix's superior projectile and attack speed also reduces the overkill problem that Vikings have.
300 Valkyries next, with the low damage aoe missiles.
Air attack of Liberators in SC2 is like Vikings in SC1. So I like Liberators anyway. And I think 300 Liberators would have smoked the Phoenix in 2 salvae.
Only in simulator that people use liberator for anti air
I think you mean Valkyries from brood war. those fucked shit up
@@NhatAnhPhamDrnah libs are used for splash at a high level sometimes, but it is pretty neashe
@@NhatAnhPhamDr Seen in pro/tournaments once in awhile, to kill observers/overseers/dropalords if there is no other way. They even saved the day sometimes.
Salvae lmao that gave me a deep cringe
Because of the plasma shield i guess it is like phoenix is having two sets of life points
So I guess the Golden Armada beats the...Lead Amada?
An unfair fight no matter who sees it
Light. Attack: 300,000km/s
Missile attack: 340 m/s
(No matter how fast it is, it’s only sonic speed!)+ tum!!!
P.S: A patch is urgently needed.
Phoenixes better DPS due to faster shooting but with shorter range, also have advantage having shields, Viking have advantage over distance. Maybe shooting, retreating, shooting would be better for vikings.
If you notice first line Vikings die even before having a change to shoot. It's the Vikings in the back doing all the damage.
When considering that the advantage a viking has is range (not taken advantage of here), as well as it being cheaper, this makes sense
Phoenix also have the advantage of being able to shoot while moving and also being quite fast. So I think a Phoenix can still close the distance and the viking can't really kite it back the way it can do vs slower air units like capital ships.
@@chloesmith4065unfortunately if you want to chase vikings, stimmed marines, cyclones, mines, and EMP all make short work of phoenix
I don't have nothing to say but I want to be in the starcraft comments ❤
Phoenix do better damage overall because they shoot much faster and even every shot does less damage, their last shot isnt wasted from overkill damage from those of the vikings. Also the shields help a bit.
However, you people failed to realized the phoenix is air to air unit only. Vikings have a ground mode to harass and do average damage when resources are scarce.
Watching SC2 from the start .... never thought phoenix will win this
the vikings traded better on gas though, by alot
the Phoenixes, unlike the Vikings, have a small splash
Pffft, who told you that? 😂
This is missing the patented winter commentary tbh
Part of the issues though is how they spread and stuff.
Funny how a so called anti air unit with micro intensive ability vs ground units. Only has 24% remaining. One would expect at least 50%.
Terran units are always glass cannon this wasn't too surprising
Vikings....the most blah yet most important unit in the terran arsenal
Mace Windu was busy.
Not what I expected
Phoenix vs liberators would be much closer..
Closer as in the Libs will wipe the floor against Phoenix?
@tigera6 if they spread out like this video it won't be that one sided
@@kingpet They were pretty clumped up in this video, I am pretty sure 200 Libs would wipe 300 Phoenix out if they set up like this.
@@kingpet They arent that spread out in the video, the Libs splash damage will destroy them. Its just hard to not clump air unit in SC2.
Anyone who plays Terran knew this would be one sided as hell. Un micro'd vikings are like a bottom 5 unit in the game.
By happy terran music your all army died by F2 toss , welcome on ladder buddy
Not how I expected this to go.
Gee Who wins the Terran Hybrid Ground/flyer that does both its jobs Good Or the Protoss Anti Air Flyer that does its job great
Hmmm this ones a toughie
Were the vikings in the back not shooting?
This one was easy. Vikings are supposed to utilize their range to not get hit back. With no type advantage and equal resources it'd be broken if they won in a straight up fight.
And phoenixes are supposed to utilize their superior speed and the ability to hit on the move. Both had unutilized strengths here.
Let me remind you Viking is cheaper. Let Phoenix kite Vikings😂
How are phoenixes gonna kite vikings? they have lower range.
Honestly, if you do a 1v1 that would tell you who wins this.
Terrans need to bring back the Valkyrie.
Phoenix is getting its bonus damage in, but is light, so the anti-armored Viking missiles aren't getting *their* bonus damage.
Vikings are armoured units, though they have 0 armour.
Bonus damage against what? Wikings aren't light.
At the start i knew the vikings lost
They have longer range but a slower attack animation
They also mass target the closest unit resulting in massive overkill at the start
When you combo these together it gets really bad for the viking as shown with something like half of the Pheonix living
Liberators counter pheonix viking counter voids with micro carriwr and tempest with micro
Pretty much terrain air bad against protoss air
Fénix hits with extra damage vs light units
But vikings are not light units
@@Howwasyourdaysir but Fenix is better than a phoenix
Fenix actually has bonus to armored units.
@@mariusmihai1292no, no has
it looked like a viking victory, until it just wasn’t. noted .
Mass liberators, maan, mass liberators
Guys are missing that he gave the Phoenix their range upgrade. So they have more range than the viking
Not at all, even with the upgrade it's still 7 range vs 9 range.
Couple mint shots
Could you please make protoss deathball vs terran deathball, by having storm vs emp, anti armor, stimpack, viking hit n run with 9 range, scan, raven full use turret, siege tank
Missiles vs Lasers. Nice.
range is insane though
they only won because of range upgrade, they dont need to move as much to get a target and start shooting.
It's light vs armour, of course light would win man. Phoenix literally double the attack speed.
why Viking dont attack, when far distance
Don’t f@ck with Golden Armada.
Phoenix are the best anti air it’s in the name “air superiority fighter”
Why not stalkers vs dragons next time?
It was easy
of corse the unit with the higher attackspeed wins when they are in mass
The protoss is the best navy in lore so....
Can vikings attack while moving like Pheonix can?
Nope
No surprise, they are protoss.
Phoenix vs mirages wouldn't go so easy plus mirages can turn invisible
Very nice music
how about the Phoenix Vs Corrupters?
Corruptor wins without micro, but Phoenixs with range upgrade can kite them to dead.
Хвала перемотке😂
Flying goliaths dont make the against Protoss air fleet
what is the fps at the start ? is winter still using a 1080 ?
I miss Valkyrie....
Man I was so ready to wail about terran being op if the vikings won that.
see the gas count and you will know
slower attack speed, higher damage does not work in mass combat
do 5000 mutas vs 50 widow mines
지상이든 공증이든 가능합니다
Do vikings beat anything?
Phoenix > Muta > Viking ==> Phoenix >> Viking
3000 phoenix vs 1 bunker😂
Do the Vikings win any of these massive battles?
Overkill as they fire in groups
The might win against Broodlords, Oracles and Banshees
@@der_echsecuter might win :D Good one!
Maybe because if they accidentally hit the LAND button... 🤣
Viking beat BCs in mass, probably.
Toss op. But they have to be it is the way
Викинг с повышенным уроном по бронированным будучи лёгким против фениксов с увеличенным уроном по легким целям и с селгой броней, логика прост убийственная ясень красен фенексы победят
range on pfoenix?
terran vs terran?
As it Should Be.
The winner is the gpu
cwal.. food for thought .. :)