Phil become so big in the 80s. He was everywhere. People just became sick of him. I wasn't one of them. I grew up with Phil's music. I didn't start to dislike him until he quit Genesis. That robbed us of some more great music. I was so happy when he reunited with Mike and Tony in 2007. Still, we didn't get any new music. I think about all those wasted years.
Me too! I enjoy Phil's solo music but Genesis is my fave band of all time. My mom introduced me to their music when I was a kid in the 80s, and I never looked back. I just dove deep into them and their music. LOL. I flew my mom and I from KC, MO to Chicago in 07 to see the reunion tour for her birthday. I lost my mom 5 years ago this month to cancer so I'm SO glad I have those memories. Even though truthfully, Phil's voice was less than on point. LOL. I thought about going to Chicago again last year to see them, but I knew I couldn't bear to see Phil singing from a chair. It's just too depressing.
The creative well was already almost dry by We Can‘t Dance in 1992. That was for sure for Genesis w Collins. Calling All Stations in 1997 was great but Tony and Mike lost their nerve and shut it down and that was that.
Phil's charisma LIVE on stage was palpable and so unexpected. So "didn't understand" is a great reason. Another was his ease. He had done the homework, was extremely talented, and MADE IT LOOK SO DAMNED EASY. Phil was likable, but everything he did seemed so simple that anyone could do it. Envy? Maybe. Yet his authenticity is loveable, IF you understand him.
The bit that ‘fax-gate’ that never got explained was someone leaked the fax to the press. I don’t think fax was ‘new’ tech at that time ! Ref live aid .. Phil always stated it was not just him that supposed to do both locations. However, others pulled out and it ended up just being him doing both locations. It was never intended to be a ‘show off’ Ref ballads … the thing about Phil’s ballads is he had a way of writing really poignant lyrics that many related to. He used his experience which also matched parts of others experience. Truly unique in many ways. His music became my ‘soundtrack’ Phil being everywhere in the 80s. I do not agree with that statement. Bands like Duran Duran or other ones around in the early 80s produced an album year on year … and constantly was on the TV. Phil was no less present than other leading bands/artists at the time. I agree with your comment about ‘not looking like a pop star’. That was part of the attraction to me growing up that he was ‘normal’ but immensely talented. I also think a lot of the hate was purely jealously of a natural talent. Btw the ‘hatred’ in the UK became really bad. At one stage the punchline to anything considered to be bad taste was ‘Phil Collins’.
That doesn't make any sense. If it was just envy, why wouldn't regular people hate all music artists? They don't and didn't. They hated Phil because many of his popular radio hits like "Sussudio" were simply annoying.
Unpopular opinion: I prefer Phil Collins as a vocalist over Peter Gabriel. The live versions of old Genesis songs like Suppers Ready or Firth of fifth sound way better with Phil Collins.
I don’t think you are unique in this view. I’m much prefer Phil’s versions to the PG era songs. It also helps that they are live versions and Genesis had a unique energy live that never came across in the studio recordings.
I prefer also Phil than Peter. But I think for some songs Peter is better, also live. For example Suppers Ready, especially from the Shepperton Studios live, in 1973.
@@Eljaiek i've read somewhere that some fans from the early Genesis did not like Phils style of live singing (all his improvising around the vocal-parts). lol
Another possible reason could be that Phil opens his heart in his songs. I once wrote a very personal song by myself and I noticed that some friends just couldn't get along with that. Sadly if you show yourself that vulnerable there are even some people that might become a bit aggressive and kick you once more.
You hit the nail on the head! As a younger generation fan, his awesome catchy songs (both solo and 80s Genesis) and the fact that he was just Phil, a normal everyday guy ... made me a fan! And I don't think he ruined Genesis...80s Genesis is insainly under appreciated for how successful it was!
I was a teen in the 80's and if you were a fan of Phil, Genesis, Mike and the Mechanics, Peter Gabriel, and Steve Hackett it was amazing. Phil was E V E R Y W H E R E! On the radio you could go up and down the dial after a song was over and hear another one. One local radio station had a "No Phil Collins weekend". I could see how people had had enough of him being everywhere.
Dude, I used to get made fun of SO MUCH for being a Genesis fan as a kid in the 80s and 90s. Like seriously, people couldn't separate Genesis from Phil. I enjoyed a lot of Phil's solo stuff too, and that got me picked on endlessly for being lame enough to like him. So I kind of kept that a secret. But I always stood up proudly to defend any work that Genesis did, I don't care who made fun of me! LOL Phil with Mike and Tony made some of the best music ever recorded.
I think people like Phil and Sting struggled with bad press during the mid 90s as grunge, alternative, folk babes, and trip hop electronica took over the spotlight. Sting's 1996 Mercury Falling bombed hard, as did Dance in to the light I think. Peter Gabriel was practically absent during the 90's (after US). But years later those alternative albums in my collection are rarely listened to, while STing, Phil and Peter stand the test of time.
Generally, every artist has a reason to exist. I love Phil Collins and there are also some good stuff by Sting, Peter Gabriel or whoever. And I don't like grunge, alternative, hip hop or all that casting stuff like boy groups from 1990s onwards. But I wouldn't blame anyone for music tastes I don't have. If you regard it to the Genesis family, there are lot of people preferring Peter Gabriel or prog in general who endlessly bash Phil Collins as a "housewifes' favorite". But on the other side, I don't know any Phil Collins fan who bashes Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett or whoever. So, my opinion is, Phil Collins fans are more tolerant than let's say prog fans or people generally openly disregard Phil Collins. That is because a Phil Collins fan doesn't give a damn on someone else's taste.
It’s interesting to hear the last reason why people hated Phil. For the record, I love Phil. Other than his voice, what I admire about him and the reason why I like him is because of how unprolific he looks. Like you said, he didnt wear any leather jacket, tattoos, or anything that would distinguish him and build a profile of from. He was just himself and shows up to the public with what he’s comfortable with. He was one of the performers for the half-time show of the superbowl in the year 2000 and he looked like an uncle rocking the whole stadium singing Two Worlds from Tarzan while wearing cargo pants. Most performers will wear something prolific or glamorous but he’s not like that. I also never heard any swear words in any of his studio recordings in his solo career except for the word “damn” in The Roof is Leaking and that’s what I also appreciate. Are people expecting too much of him to live up to their expectations during the 80s and 90s?
I wonder how different things would have been had he stayed with Jill.. It seems to me that he simply had a mid life crisis! Happens to the best of us😅 Had he gotten over the fling with his ex girlfriend and Jill had forgiven him then he may have stayed in the UK rather than getting together with the 22 yrold and heading of to Switzerland , that’s where things started to go to shit I’m my opinion..His house (palace😆) in Sussex is still empty and boarded up with the trees allowed to grow up around it. I guess it’s something to do with tax or why not sell it? I guess it may go to Lily at some point. When I was a youngster I used to cycle the 20miles from my house to the village and try to find his house…when I was 15 I wrote him a letter asking if I could do my school work experience with him, he wrote back!! Hand written piece of paper saying NO🤣 but I was so happy to have a reply… I’d loved Genesis and was obsessed with being Phil since I was 7…but by the time Both Sides came out I felt I had moved on…We Can’t Dance was the end for me although I loved the Big Band stuff. I saw the 2007 tour which was great, but by then they had settled into being middle aged rock stars, and who can blame them!! Secretly I’d hope that they would have gotten all Tony’s old synths and organ back out, set up with Steve and recorded some fresh new music… Or that Phil would have gotten a jazz quartet together and worked more on his drumming again…
Why would anynone hate Phil Collins?! He has been a great musician and a down to earth person. I do not get why some people attach the word 'hate' with him. Me and many of my friends like him very much. And 'ruining Genesis'!!, it is so unfair to say that...Rather, Genesis was great with him...People underestimate the pure beauty of Mama, Throwing it all away, Home By the Sea, No reply at all, Invisible Touch, Misunderstanding, In too Deep, Man on the Corner...
There is actually one more reason that you didn’t mention in your first five: the self-proclaimed “elitists” who hate anything mainstream just to be “edgy”. Hate anything mainstream on the radio, on the Internet on the TV just to validate their own tastes when it doesn’t matter at all. Mainstream, underground - who cares? Also the prog elitists who think Phil should’ve just stayed that way as a drummer.
Yeah musical snobs is really what it’s called they can’t bear anything catchy or commercial the original 1970’s Genesis fans wanted them to keep on churning out the same old prog songs .
impossible to label Collins.. other than master songwriter, musician, singer.. showman.. a true great of his field.. all those who label him as 'pop' have never seen his full catalog...
I like Phil Collins, because his songs marked a great generation of the 80's. In my childhood, I listened to them almost every day on local radio stations here in Brazil and they left an impression on me, both nostalgically and emotionally. Phil shaped my character, made me who I am. I remember his song lyrics, which I translated and sent to my girlfriend (currently my wife). It's about who you are, who you've become and what you want to be in the future. Phil Collins is legacy, a good legacy. The music business is not the same as it used to be, and I don't think it ever will be again. The old days are gone and now we are the parents of our children. What have you been doing for your sons to be a good person in this chaotic world we currently live in? That's what I think about every day. Anyway, thank you very much, Mr Phil, for making me who I am today, a good person (as far as possible).
your thoughts on the actual reason people might hate phil seems really accurate, ive ran into so many people who hated him because of how he looks and dresses and i always thought those type of people just couldnt listen to his music without an image of someone like phil collins popping up in their head. if you look at today’s pop stars, they all have some physical look that make them seem attractive to their fans. if we take justin bieber and gave him the style phil had and the haircut phil had, he wouldnt be popular in 2010. its sad how some people rely on looks in a singer and not the talent, speaking of that i feel like we’re missing out on so many talented artists today because they dont have the looks that the media wants.
In my opinion, music elites were simply jealous that someone so insanely talented and popular with the PEOPLE had such success and he didn’t play by the rules. He didn’t fit the mold of what he should be. He could do it all, and they resented that. He was a bright light flying high in his own stratosphere and by the way, Phil MADE Genesis I am not a big fan of Peter Gabriel era Genesis but devoted fan of everything in the PC Genesis era. It was a proven fact that Phil made Genesis because once Phil left, Genesis died. Phil had too much talent for the elite to appreciate.
I don't think people hate Phil Collins so much as they hate what he became known for later in his career. In the '70s he was known as one of the greatest drummers on the planet and a successful replacement for Gabriel as the lead vocalist of Genesis. While he was still occasionally noted for that later on, by the mid-'80s, his past reputation was being overshadowed by his celebrity/pop-star status, with many of his newly acquired fans being largely unaware of his past glories.
I agree with you 100 percent of everything you said about Phil Collins. I was still of fan of Phil Collins back in the 80s and 90s, just as much as a fan of Genesis. I have been a fan of Genesis since I was in grade school. Phil Collins saved Genesis, as I'll reiterate what you said. It may of been the end of Genesis, if they didn't have a lead singer namely Phil Collins. You also said that Genesis may have been an instrumental band, but not really successful if it wasn't for Phil Collins. On a side note--in my personal opinion, Genesis has songs that kick butt live. Domino Part 1 In The Glow Of The Night Part 2 The Last Domino, Home By The Sea/ Second Home By The Sea, Tonight, Tonight, Tonight, The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, Firth of Fifth, I Know What I like (In Your Wardrobe), Land of Confusion, Abacab, Turn It On Again, Fading Lights, Mama, In The Cage (with medley), Los Endos, and The Brazilian, (2 great instrumentals). 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
You nailed it! I've often thought about why PC is probably the most criticized artist in the media. Even so-called Genesis fans in forums and pools hate him like no one else. But considering the biggest PC bashers, I have one elite group in mind in particular: music critics. Best or better said worst example is Robert Christgau, the most-cited opinion holder, although I've never understood why. This guild - which likes to call itself "feuilleton" - is the only self-claimed profession I have no respect for. Why? Firstly, as a music critic you don't need to have any certified degree to talk or believe to teach others about quality art. Secondly, music critics are often frustrated to be prevented artists by themselves who didn't make it due to a lack of talent or bad luck. Thirdly, music critics claim to speak for the majority but indeed they don't, as statistics of sales easily show. Because of all this, music critics often have a problem with talented artists who don't fit the sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll cliché, unlike the artists, who have met all the (non-essentials, I think) requirements of a rock musician. Out of respect for other tastes, I won't name any artists. I think that PC isn't that hated as most of those "opinion leaders" have tried to make us believe. Because someone who has sold a total of 262 million equivalent albums with his band and as a solo artist aggregated and won numerous important awards (incl. 9 Grammys and 1 Oscar) should give a damn about a few busybodies who don't like his music, for any individual reasons.
You made some very interesting and I think you're right. But as a long time Genesis fan, I always remember the older fans not liking the commercial direction Genesis took after Steve left. They felt they were selling out and took it out on Phil when his solo albums cam out. They still wanted to hear the long 10 minutes suites and not 4 minute pop ballads. Personally, I will always be prefer their prog era but I did like some of Phil's tunes, both solo and with later Genesis.
i find that largely, people don't anymore. and that's good, because he's a great musician who was wrongly hated for stupid, superficial reasons. and people are FINALLY starting to notice that he's a great drummer as well.
Both Tony and Mike were moving towards a pop sensibility in the 80's. It's unfair to blame Phil. They still put out some great albums. That's the beauty of Genesis. There is something to appeal to everyone.
Blame it on Phil, I don't care. As much as I love Trespass-Lamb era, he got rid of that theatrical Peter Gabriel bullshit, and in the 80's as a solo artist made real pop music, not some self-indulgent, "world ambassador" crap. Dude is legit.
I only found this via the Oasis feud, as a Brit I find the majority of his pop music pretty irritating, however I don’t think he’s without talent , he’s very as we say marmite hate or love. I think Oasis are one of the most overrated bands of my era , so the whole feud thing was a little tongue in cheek, to drum , sing ,and compose is a lot more than half that duo ever did.
What I always loved about Phil is he just never took himself seriously & maybe this wound people up even more as he wouldn’t bite to any of the headlines.
I'm a huge Genesis fan and can not overstate PC's contribution to music throughout the 70's and 80's. I don't really get on with the his solo stuff, with the exception of a few tracks here and there. People disliked him because it became fashionable to do so. He was everywhere in the 80's and came across as a big head, which I don't believe he was, but he was portrayed as such by the 'cool' music press.
To answer this question with one simple word : Jealousy. And if "people hate Phil Collins", then who bought the MILLIONS of albums and singles that he's sold in his career ?
He’s one of those people who are so talented that they have so much success and are so ubiquitous that people start to get a bit annoyed to keep hearing about them. The same thing happens to people like Taylor Swift.
I think what I found that some people didn't appreciate about Genesis and Phil Collins music was that some of the songs/hits were social commentary. U2 had sort of the same problem too in 80s. However, in the 80s & 90s until grunge & alternative came along, people wanted upbeat pop music to just escape reality from and Phil wasn't to shy away from serious topics in his music. Apart from Live Aid music, and group collaborations, eg. Northern Lights, USA for Africa, Band-Aid, some people didn't want to hear about homelessness, poverty, etc. Here was an uber popular AAA artist singing about important issues. The closest artist who gets the same type of attention nowaways would be Taylor Swift. And for some people, it's just not the fact of the ballads; they were break up songs. Depressing. It's what inspired him though. Like Taylor, he uses music as therapy. They were throwaway songs but they resonated so well. :)
A lot of Genesis songs had quite heavy subject matter. Most people didn't realise because the music was quite light. Harold The Barrel is about a guy who has a breakdown and commits suicide. Inside and Out is about a guy wrongly imprisoned for rape.
I think a Genesis instrumental album would have been cool. I wish a lot of bands would have released at least one instrumental album in their careers, kind of like how they release cover albums or live albums. Record labels probably wouldn’t go for that sort of thing unfortunately.
Phil Collins is the Mozart of this generation. He is insanely skilled in music. He writes songs, plays multiple instruments, sings in multiple languages and he is one of the top of the drummers. He played for many different bands. It is something like this, "our drummer is sick", "oh call Phil".
LOL, great, great video Scott - love it. I thought the live aid and FAX hate stuff was stupid then and is most definitely stupid now (I'm old). Cheers, Ian :)
Great piece! You hit the nail, and I feel the same way about Phil. I´ve read "Not Dead Yet" four times. It´s a recommendation, especially for all Phil-haters out there.
I work in a large retail store, where Phil's music is routinely blasted into our eardrums. They have this glassy, reverb, grating, trash-can, Pop vibe, that i find unappealing and not pleasant. His best song, arguably, is Sussudio. It has clever horn lines, and quite catchy (even if we have no idea what the song is talking about. More on that later.) IMHO, his most annoying song is In The Air Tonight. It's his pronunciation of "OH LORD" . It sounds like "OH LONG." That, combined with the fact that Phil is SHOUTING AT US, while his music video is a b&w image of his face, makes it unbearable to listen to and visualize. Another problem ìs, his songs aren't really relatable, or have a point that anyone seems to care about. Don't Lose My Number, is a perfect example. Why is Phil singing about some other dude not losing his number? The only coherent lyric when listening to it is "Billy, don't ya lose my numbaaaa'".....okay, why all the fuss? 🤔. The thing Phil has going for him, he's very good at promoting himself and being convincing, and appeals to a pop-art vibe crowd.
I never hated Phil. My own opinion is that none of the music Phil was involved with from 1980 on was music I cared for. I didn't know anything about his personal life, I didn't really follow anything about him other than the actual music he came out with. The Phil Collins that played drums on Genesis albums from 1971 - 1973 was probably my favorite drummer. I didn't dislike him as a singer. I don't hate Phil for doing what he wanted to do in the 80s, I just didn't care for any of it.
I was one of the guys who "hated" him. Hate is a strong word I never actually hated him, but I was born in 1979 so the first two decades of my life I remember being sick of hearing Phil all over the place. I didn't discover early Genesis until I was 15 and immediately became a fan of 70s Genesis but always saw 80s/90s Genesis as cheesy and viewed Phil Collins as the reason for the band's downfall. It wasn't until I was older and had explored the catalog and band's history more fully that I came to appreciate the later Phil Collins stuff. Now I love all of it, in fact my band is doing a cover of Easy Lover, a song I used to loathe but now love and find it a lot of fun to play. It's weird how these things happen. Maybe it's because I've matured or maybe it's because popular music today is just so bad that even the stuff I used to hate in the 80s and 90s stuff looks so better by comparison. It's sort of similar to the fans of the original star wars trilogy who used to hate the prequels but now have come to appreciate it because of how bad Disney Star Wars has been. Who knows, maybe in 20 years time I'll be nostalgic for the music and Disney Star Wars films of today. That being said, I disagree with your assertion that the real reason people hated him was becuase he didn't fit the mold of a rockstar. If anything I respected him more for that, even in the 80s and 90s when I was sick of hearing and seeing him all over the place.
I think it was a question of Envy: Why this guy is gaining so much money by making such commercial music??? Well, not only the Best Drummer in Rock for me but a Very Very Talented Musician Singer/Producer/Songwriter who wrote with Gold Letters the 2nd Important Era of Genesis, the whole 1980s ( both Solo & Genesis ) Decade & Amazing Songs & Albums in the 1990s…I mean that commercial music came with a big amount of quality..or isn’t Michael Jackson’s Thriller a non-commercial Album? It was apart from being a commercial album, it was also an Excellent Album…And ruined Genesis…so dumb people who said that..Not only not ruined but Enriched the band with his Powerful Style of Drumming plus his Unique Voice which fitted perfectly with the band’s trax…And Against All Odds ( one of the Best Ballads Ever ) or Easy Lover ( one of the Most Electrifying Drum Performances of All Time ), both released in 1984 ( my favorite year )..Those people were soooo Wrong!
It wasn't that he didn't conform or that he didn't have a "schtick." He was over-exposed and over-played. He was constantly on the radio + his Genesis work. He was even on a couple of episodes of Miami Vice. It became too much, and people took him for granted.
you are totally right: the first reasons are basically excuses for the people that we're kind of jealous that a "average joe" could be that great and successful.
People who hate an artist that is successful are just weird. It is ok to not like their music. But look at any popular band or solo artists and there are sheep saying how can’t stand them because they think they’re being cool.
Scott, I have to agree with you on your “Real Reason” why everyone hated Phil. He was just an everyday guy. I was friends with one of Genesis’ Roadies for about I want to say a Decade (don’t quote me about that one.) But I understood who he was and the people he knew, however he was my friend. I asked him without fail about his family. I didn’t care who he knew etc. I know for a fact that he worked with Peter and Steve H. towards the end of his life. But last I heard they moved to North Carolina and he passed away. (Maybe it was COVID 19, I don’t really know). The reason why I know he worked with Peter is I showed him my UP booklet with his signature on it and verified that it was indeed his Signature. Enough about my Roadie friend. Funny thing about that is for about a decade he lived about 30 minutes from me and I’ll never forgive myself for not visiting him. The end. He was the Roadie from 78-83 All those reasons were crazy because they didn’t know where to put Phil. Better attack him they had nothing better to do.
So, people hate Phil Collins because everybody loves Phil Collins. SMH. Phil Collins is one of my favorite artists of all time and Genesis (since Duke) is one of my favorite bands of all time. The Invisible Touch tour was such a treat. I absolutely loved the fact that Phil didn't leave Genesis after Face Value. He had both a solo career and career with Genesis and we all benefited from that.
What, hate Phillip, no i had always loved and respected this man for his entertainment and personality, even in Genesis, Brand x or solo. All those earhanger, has formed my music life so much. But saddly, all good has an ending, but i Hope he still may have many butyfull years, even his sickness. Just say ,thanks for all the music, god bless you, Phillip Collins. And to you, great komment, video, respect . 🥁👍🤗
Really great and honest appraisal of why Phil bashing became such a national pastime either side of the Atlantic Ocean and one I fell into myself. He wasn’t perfect but maybe, just maybe, should be held in higher esteem for his achievements than I have given him credit for or indeed others of more importance. Well argued and presented and done with a passion. All the best Dave✅✅
You kinda glossed over the contents of the fax, it was strongly worded. For me it's a private message and things are said in the heat of the moment and we move on.
That was a really good assessment of Phil Collins and the vitriol he has experienced in his career, particularly from the British media and you have nailed it in all areas. I think it is the criticism the British press gave, coupled with his inability to deal with the criticism that gave this impression of being hated, even though I felt more people loved his music than not. I think he also came from a Prog Rock background and he never was seen as edgy as a solo artist which is sad, because he was a leftfield drummer and musician, working with Brand X, Eno, Gabriel's solo career and many more and created some fantastic music.
main reason is all those Peter Gabriel widows. He was a tremendous drummer for that band when they were prog, then Collins took them in a different journey, if he didn’t Genesis would’ve been another Jethro Tull. Who? Exactly.
Very interesting ideas, and I thought (wrongly) that I heard them all. No need for me to add anything to them. But it does remind me about something I heard a comedian say about Phil. He was walking into a store wearing a Phil Collins shirt, and this kid was making fun it. So the guy says that he sees young people like this kid wearing Phil shirts too. The kid replies, "Yeah, but when I wear a Phil Collins shirt, I wear it ironically." Just a funny comment on how Phil affected different generations differently.
I think it all comes down to snobbery. Some people think that Phil represents everything that was 'wrong' with the 80s music: shiny synth-pop, drum machine music etc. People simply think they're intellectually superior and have better taste in music if they crap on Phil. It's way more cool to like or at least pretend to like The Smiths, Bob Dylan, Genesis etc than Phil. Majority of people who disregard the quality of his solo career, at least his quality as a pop musician (if nothing else), are mostly people who don't have good hearing enough to recognize or compose good music. All that irrational hate is simply for them to boost their own ego. And to be honest, I always preffered his solo career way more than Genesis whose music I find mostly to be immature while pretending to be more than it is. It's technically very skilled music by very skilled musicians. I don't care much for the Peter Gabriel era to be honest. There's always in their songs that predictable chord progression of many ugly chords that pretend to be unpredictable. I couldn't care less for such music. That still doesn't mean that I think that Genesis are bad. Far from that. They are innovative and an important part of music culture. They're just not for me (most of the time). I still like 'Duchess', 'Mama' and some other songs from Phil's period. I prefer Phil's atmospheric songs like 'Thru These Walls', 'In the Air Tonight', 'Don't Lose My Number', 'Droned/Hand in Hand', 'Long Long Way To Go' etc. Horn sections in his more uptempo songs are brilliant. I don't have anything against his ballads, especially 'One More Night', 'Against All Odds', 'Another Day in Paradise', 'I Wish It Would Rain Down' etc. I love those. I didn't like 'Both Sides', 'Testify', 'Going Back' and 'Brother Bear' albums very much. Everything else is great IMO. I also think that one of the main reasons why some people hate him so much is that they couldn't forgive his success and for being so trendy and successful at it during the, "oh so horrible", 80s era.
His real fans love him as a drummer *...so when he became a pop star...? But for success I appreciate his ability to do everything..bravo I don't hate him..hes sincere
I hate people who hate Phil Collins. I’m not sure it’s exactly the group Karl Popper had in mind when he said don’t tolerate the intolerant, but they’re as good a group as any to start with.
One of the "reasons" in the UK is he apparently said he would leave the country if the Labour Party were elected because they would make richer people pay more tax. He did leave in 1997 when Labour were elected but he actually moved to Switzerland to be with his wife.
@@EverythingPhilCollins Phil to me seems pretty dead centre. Stuff like Another Day in Paradise (homelessness) and That's Just the Way it Is (The Troubles), that wasn't politically partisan, that was just what I call common decency if that makes any sense. Colours (anti-Apartheid). I agree with that too. Screw Apartheid. The unsilent majority have long spoken. Not that I would have Mandela over for Christmas dinner if he were still alive but 2 wrongs didn't make a right. Most of the time, Phil would rather that music be just for entertainment and escapism. I'm aware Phil never left England because taxes but Sting whom is a left wing but that didn't stop hm from being a tax exile when he hightailed to Ireland for a brief time in the early 80's and plus he's no younger a registered Labour after the UK's involvement in the Iraq War.
I’m a fan of Phil Collins, he actually did a TV show in the U.K. called “Room 101” and he was very funny on it. He did talk a little about his politics and the whole “dumping his wife by fax” thing. It’s also worth noting that a lot of the stuff around Phil Collins does have its roots in the fact that it’s alleged that he’s a Tory (which he denies) and that he’s a tax exile, which he might be. The music isn’t commented on as much here in the U.K. it’s largely about his politics, his wealth and the fact that Noel Gallagher doesn’t like him.
I think you hit the nail right on the head there mate. His image was the main issue, and the other stuff was just minor circumstance. As for his music, I love Phil’s solo and Genesis stuff, but I’ve never been a fan of his ballads. Many Too Many and Ripples are the only ones I listen to. Keep up the great work.
My brother and I had been joking by the mid 80's that Phil was everywhere. We thought that he should have sang "stu-stu-studio" instead of "su--sussudio" since he seemed to live at recording studios (probably why he couldn't make a marriage work). I think appearing at both Live-aid shows just topped everything off. In my eyes, he had become nothing more than a "musical mercenary". That being said, I certainly never hated Phil, just kind of got sick of him and, because of that, got sick of Genesis. All these years later, I can appreciate the later albums he made with Genesis but, at the time, I had no interest whatsoever.
Gen X (like me) used to hate Phil Collins for the simple fact that he was constantly on the radio and when he wasn't our parent were playing his songs, which, for a teen/kid those songs were boring and they all sounded the same and had all the same lyrics (love songs lyrics are so generic that sound all the same). Of course we all went crazy when we found out he was the drummer of much band who played much more interesting music (Genesis with peter Gabriel as singer).
Loved this, but in 94 Fax Machines were not new tech whatsoever-came out in the 70's but then started to even more evolve in the 80's! Like In 1985, Hank Magnuski, founder of GammaLink, produced the first computer fax board, called Gamma Fax. Such boards could provide voice telephony via Analog Expansion Bus! And Into Deep wasn't Phil Collins but Genesis song!
You make a good case, but your theory doesn't explain how so many of Phil's fans who liked and related to him during the height of his fame, subsequently turned on him in the 90s and beyond. Did they fall victim to the other 5 reasons you mentioned and had second thoughts?
he wasn't a "normal dude" at all. he was funny. he was entertaining and genuine. he was smart and likable. he told brilliant stories at concerts, and i'd turn up night after night to listen to them, as well as the music. people are drawn to all of those qualities that are not found in many. that's what made him so attractive to women, especially.
Huh? Speak for yourself. I've never met any woman who was attracted to Phil Collins. In the 1980's, women lusted for Simon LeBon from Duran Duran. Even David Bowie was always more desired by women than Phil Collins.
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Never heard of anyone who "hated" Phil Collins, maybe disliked, but not "hated". Hate is such a strong word. 😐
Oasis hated Phil, South Park still hate Phil, the list is quite long lol. It's very stupid but true..
I FUCKING HATE PHIL COLLINS
Phil become so big in the 80s. He was everywhere. People just became sick of him. I wasn't one of them. I grew up with Phil's music. I didn't start to dislike him until he quit Genesis. That robbed us of some more great music. I was so happy when he reunited with Mike and Tony in 2007. Still, we didn't get any new music. I think about all those wasted years.
Me too! I enjoy Phil's solo music but Genesis is my fave band of all time. My mom introduced me to their music when I was a kid in the 80s, and I never looked back. I just dove deep into them and their music. LOL. I flew my mom and I from KC, MO to Chicago in 07 to see the reunion tour for her birthday. I lost my mom 5 years ago this month to cancer so I'm SO glad I have those memories. Even though truthfully, Phil's voice was less than on point. LOL. I thought about going to Chicago again last year to see them, but I knew I couldn't bear to see Phil singing from a chair. It's just too depressing.
This.
The creative well was already almost dry by We Can‘t Dance in 1992. That was for sure for Genesis w Collins. Calling All Stations in 1997 was great but Tony and Mike lost their nerve and shut it down and that was that.
Phil's charisma LIVE on stage was palpable and so unexpected. So "didn't understand" is a great reason. Another was his ease. He had done the homework, was extremely talented, and MADE IT LOOK SO DAMNED EASY. Phil was likable, but everything he did seemed so simple that anyone could do it. Envy? Maybe. Yet his authenticity is loveable, IF you understand him.
So true
He's more rock star then any one else that I know. He made beige converse cool. And he made bald sexy as hell.
Love those shoes. Lol.
The bit that ‘fax-gate’ that never got explained was someone leaked the fax to the press. I don’t think fax was ‘new’ tech at that time !
Ref live aid .. Phil always stated it was not just him that supposed to do both locations. However, others pulled out and it ended up just being him doing both locations. It was never intended to be a ‘show off’
Ref ballads … the thing about Phil’s ballads is he had a way of writing really poignant lyrics that many related to. He used his experience which also matched parts of others experience. Truly unique in many ways. His music became my ‘soundtrack’
Phil being everywhere in the 80s. I do not agree with that statement. Bands like Duran Duran or other ones around in the early 80s produced an album year on year … and constantly was on the TV. Phil was no less present than other leading bands/artists at the time.
I agree with your comment about ‘not looking like a pop star’. That was part of the attraction to me growing up that he was ‘normal’ but immensely talented.
I also think a lot of the hate was purely jealously of a natural talent.
Btw the ‘hatred’ in the UK became really bad. At one stage the punchline to anything considered to be bad taste was ‘Phil Collins’.
Thanks for these insights! Awesome!!
So many were green with envy.
Green eyed Monsters! Phil couldn't change being a legend if he wanted too.
He was definitely born to be one.
Agree!
That doesn't make any sense. If it was just envy, why wouldn't regular people hate all music artists? They don't and didn't. They hated Phil because many of his popular radio hits like "Sussudio" were simply annoying.
Unpopular opinion: I prefer Phil Collins as a vocalist over Peter Gabriel. The live versions of old Genesis songs like Suppers Ready or Firth of fifth sound way better with Phil Collins.
I don’t think you are unique in this view. I’m much prefer Phil’s versions to the PG era songs. It also helps that they are live versions and Genesis had a unique energy live that never came across in the studio recordings.
Keep this between us, but I tend to agree with you...
They're both great! In all fairness, Peter was still quite young when he was with Genesis. His singing and musicianship hadn't reached it's prime yet.
I prefer also Phil than Peter. But I think for some songs Peter is better, also live. For example Suppers Ready, especially from the Shepperton Studios live, in 1973.
@@Eljaiek i've read somewhere that some fans from the early Genesis did not like Phils style of live singing (all his improvising around the vocal-parts). lol
The way I always seen him was, for someone so talented he was so self deprecateing.
That’s probably a British thing of being humble. Lewis Capaldi was pretty much the same way.
Love that about him too!
You absolutely nailed it in this video.
...now, do the 5 reasons people loved Phil Collins! :)
On my list!!! But let's go for 10!! :)
Another possible reason could be that Phil opens his heart in his songs. I once wrote a very personal song by myself and I noticed that some friends just couldn't get along with that. Sadly if you show yourself that vulnerable there are even some people that might become a bit aggressive and kick you once more.
Good point!
You hit the nail on the head! As a younger generation fan, his awesome catchy songs (both solo and 80s Genesis) and the fact that he was just Phil, a normal everyday guy ... made me a fan!
And I don't think he ruined Genesis...80s Genesis is insainly under appreciated for how successful it was!
I was a teen in the 80's and if you were a fan of Phil, Genesis, Mike and the Mechanics, Peter Gabriel, and Steve Hackett it was amazing. Phil was E V E R Y W H E R E! On the radio you could go up and down the dial after a song was over and hear another one. One local radio station had a "No Phil Collins weekend". I could see how people had had enough of him being everywhere.
Dude, I used to get made fun of SO MUCH for being a Genesis fan as a kid in the 80s and 90s. Like seriously, people couldn't separate Genesis from Phil. I enjoyed a lot of Phil's solo stuff too, and that got me picked on endlessly for being lame enough to like him. So I kind of kept that a secret. But I always stood up proudly to defend any work that Genesis did, I don't care who made fun of me! LOL Phil with Mike and Tony made some of the best music ever recorded.
I think people like Phil and Sting struggled with bad press during the mid 90s as grunge, alternative, folk babes, and trip hop electronica took over the spotlight. Sting's 1996 Mercury Falling bombed hard, as did Dance in to the light I think. Peter Gabriel was practically absent during the 90's (after US). But years later those alternative albums in my collection are rarely listened to, while STing, Phil and Peter stand the test of time.
Generally, every artist has a reason to exist. I love Phil Collins and there are also some good stuff by Sting, Peter Gabriel or whoever. And I don't like grunge, alternative, hip hop or all that casting stuff like boy groups from 1990s onwards. But I wouldn't blame anyone for music tastes I don't have. If you regard it to the Genesis family, there are lot of people preferring Peter Gabriel or prog in general who endlessly bash Phil Collins as a "housewifes' favorite". But on the other side, I don't know any Phil Collins fan who bashes Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett or whoever. So, my opinion is, Phil Collins fans are more tolerant than let's say prog fans or people generally openly disregard Phil Collins. That is because a Phil Collins fan doesn't give a damn on someone else's taste.
It’s interesting to hear the last reason why people hated Phil. For the record, I love Phil. Other than his voice, what I admire about him and the reason why I like him is because of how unprolific he looks. Like you said, he didnt wear any leather jacket, tattoos, or anything that would distinguish him and build a profile of from. He was just himself and shows up to the public with what he’s comfortable with. He was one of the performers for the half-time show of the superbowl in the year 2000 and he looked like an uncle rocking the whole stadium singing Two Worlds from Tarzan while wearing cargo pants. Most performers will wear something prolific or glamorous but he’s not like that. I also never heard any swear words in any of his studio recordings in his solo career except for the word “damn” in The Roof is Leaking and that’s what I also appreciate.
Are people expecting too much of him to live up to their expectations during the 80s and 90s?
I wonder how different things would have been had he stayed with Jill.. It seems to me that he simply had a mid life crisis! Happens to the best of us😅 Had he gotten over the fling with his ex girlfriend and Jill had forgiven him then he may have stayed in the UK rather than getting together with the 22 yrold and heading of to Switzerland , that’s where things started to go to shit I’m my opinion..His house (palace😆) in Sussex is still empty and boarded up with the trees allowed to grow up around it. I guess it’s something to do with tax or why not sell it? I guess it may go to Lily at some point. When I was a youngster I used to cycle the 20miles from my house to the village and try to find his house…when I was 15 I wrote him a letter asking if I could do my school work experience with him, he wrote back!! Hand written piece of paper saying NO🤣 but I was so happy to have a reply… I’d loved Genesis and was obsessed with being Phil since I was 7…but by the time Both Sides came out I felt I had moved on…We Can’t Dance was the end for me although I loved the Big Band stuff. I saw the 2007 tour which was great, but by then they had settled into being middle aged rock stars, and who can blame them!! Secretly I’d hope that they would have gotten all Tony’s old synths and organ back out, set up with Steve and recorded some fresh new music… Or that Phil would have gotten a jazz quartet together and worked more on his drumming again…
Amazing insights! Thanks for sharing! Would love to see that house!
Why would anynone hate Phil Collins?! He has been a great musician and a down to earth person. I do not get why some people attach the word 'hate' with him. Me and many of my friends like him very much. And 'ruining Genesis'!!, it is so unfair to say that...Rather, Genesis was great with him...People underestimate the pure beauty of Mama, Throwing it all away, Home By the Sea, No reply at all, Invisible Touch, Misunderstanding, In too Deep, Man on the Corner...
Couldn’t agree more!!
Phil Collins is my favorite hands out. I've always loved him.
There is actually one more reason that you didn’t mention in your first five: the self-proclaimed “elitists” who hate anything mainstream just to be “edgy”. Hate anything mainstream on the radio, on the Internet on the TV just to validate their own tastes when it doesn’t matter at all. Mainstream, underground - who cares? Also the prog elitists who think Phil should’ve just stayed that way as a drummer.
Yah that's true as well. Probably why he got a bit more respect pre-Duke era...
Yeah musical snobs is really what it’s called they can’t bear anything catchy or commercial the original 1970’s Genesis fans wanted them to keep on churning out the same old prog songs .
impossible to label Collins.. other than master songwriter, musician, singer.. showman.. a true great of his field.. all those who label him as 'pop' have never seen his full catalog...
Phil is very cool drummer :)
Indeed!!
I like Phil Collins, because his songs marked a great generation of the 80's. In my childhood, I listened to them almost every day on local radio stations here in Brazil and they left an impression on me, both nostalgically and emotionally. Phil shaped my character, made me who I am. I remember his song lyrics, which I translated and sent to my girlfriend (currently my wife). It's about who you are, who you've become and what you want to be in the future. Phil Collins is legacy, a good legacy. The music business is not the same as it used to be, and I don't think it ever will be again. The old days are gone and now we are the parents of our children. What have you been doing for your sons to be a good person in this chaotic world we currently live in? That's what I think about every day. Anyway, thank you very much, Mr Phil, for making me who I am today, a good person (as far as possible).
your thoughts on the actual reason people might hate phil seems really accurate, ive ran into so many people who hated him because of how he looks and dresses and i always thought those type of people just couldnt listen to his music without an image of someone like phil collins popping up in their head. if you look at today’s pop stars, they all have some physical look that make them seem attractive to their fans. if we take justin bieber and gave him the style phil had and the haircut phil had, he wouldnt be popular in 2010. its sad how some people rely on looks in a singer and not the talent, speaking of that i feel like we’re missing out on so many talented artists today because they dont have the looks that the media wants.
Totally...
In my opinion, music elites were simply jealous that someone so insanely talented and popular with the PEOPLE had such success and he didn’t play by the rules. He didn’t fit the mold of what he should be. He could do it all, and they resented that. He was a bright light flying high in his own stratosphere and by the way, Phil MADE Genesis I am not a big fan of Peter Gabriel era Genesis but devoted fan of everything in the PC Genesis era. It was a proven fact that Phil made Genesis because once Phil left, Genesis died. Phil had too much talent for the elite to appreciate.
Really enjoying the content (both Phil and Genesis) - thanks for this channel; just found you recently. Keep up the great work!
Thank you SO much!!
I don't think people hate Phil Collins so much as they hate what he became known for later in his career. In the '70s he was known as one of the greatest drummers on the planet and a successful replacement for Gabriel as the lead vocalist of Genesis. While he was still occasionally noted for that later on, by the mid-'80s, his past reputation was being overshadowed by his celebrity/pop-star status, with many of his newly acquired fans being largely unaware of his past glories.
I agree with you 100 percent of everything you said about Phil Collins. I was still of fan of Phil Collins back in the 80s and 90s, just as much as a fan of Genesis. I have been a fan of Genesis since I was in grade school. Phil Collins saved Genesis, as I'll reiterate what you said. It may of been the end of Genesis, if they didn't have a lead singer namely Phil Collins. You also said that Genesis may have been an instrumental band, but not really successful if it wasn't for Phil Collins. On a side note--in my personal opinion, Genesis has songs that kick butt live. Domino Part 1 In The Glow Of The Night Part 2 The Last Domino, Home By The Sea/ Second Home By The Sea, Tonight, Tonight, Tonight, The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, Firth of Fifth, I Know What I like (In Your Wardrobe), Land of Confusion, Abacab, Turn It On Again, Fading Lights, Mama, In The Cage (with medley), Los Endos, and The Brazilian, (2 great instrumentals). 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks so much Alan!!
You nailed it!
I've often thought about why PC is probably the most criticized artist in the media. Even so-called Genesis fans in forums and pools hate him like no one else.
But considering the biggest PC bashers, I have one elite group in mind in particular: music critics. Best or better said worst example is Robert Christgau, the most-cited opinion holder, although I've never understood why. This guild - which likes to call itself "feuilleton" - is the only self-claimed profession I have no respect for. Why?
Firstly, as a music critic you don't need to have any certified degree to talk or believe to teach others about quality art.
Secondly, music critics are often frustrated to be prevented artists by themselves who didn't make it due to a lack of talent or bad luck.
Thirdly, music critics claim to speak for the majority but indeed they don't, as statistics of sales easily show.
Because of all this, music critics often have a problem with talented artists who don't fit the sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll cliché, unlike the artists, who have met all the (non-essentials, I think) requirements of a rock musician. Out of respect for other tastes, I won't name any artists.
I think that PC isn't that hated as most of those "opinion leaders" have tried to make us believe. Because someone who has sold a total of 262 million equivalent albums with his band and as a solo artist aggregated and won numerous important awards (incl. 9 Grammys and 1 Oscar) should give a damn about a few busybodies who don't like his music, for any individual reasons.
Millions of fans love Phil. That's what counts. ❤
I read ‘Not Dead Yet.’ And came away with the thought that Phil just couldn’t say no to his friends.
Same here!
You made some very interesting and I think you're right. But as a long time Genesis fan, I always remember the older fans not liking the commercial direction Genesis took after Steve left. They felt they were selling out and took it out on Phil when his solo albums cam out. They still wanted to hear the long 10 minutes suites and not 4 minute pop ballads. Personally, I will always be prefer their prog era but I did like some of Phil's tunes, both solo and with later Genesis.
Phil is awesome
Agree!!
i find that largely, people don't anymore. and that's good, because he's a great musician who was wrongly hated for stupid, superficial reasons. and people are FINALLY starting to notice that he's a great drummer as well.
Both Tony and Mike were moving towards a pop sensibility in the 80's. It's unfair to blame Phil. They still put out some great albums. That's the beauty of Genesis. There is something to appeal to everyone.
Blame it on Phil, I don't care. As much as I love Trespass-Lamb era, he got rid of that theatrical Peter Gabriel bullshit, and in the 80's as a solo artist made real pop music, not some self-indulgent, "world ambassador" crap. Dude is legit.
Admittedly i prefer Peter but there's so much to love about Phil too and it makes me sad when he gets hate
Amen!
The 80s were known for ballads, from sooo many bands/artists, not just Phil.
Even the "metal" bands were pumping them out.
I only found this via the Oasis feud, as a Brit I find the majority of his pop music pretty irritating, however I don’t think he’s without talent , he’s very as we say marmite hate or love.
I think Oasis are one of the most overrated bands of my era , so the whole feud thing was a little tongue in cheek, to drum , sing ,and compose is a lot more than half that duo ever did.
What I always loved about Phil is he just never took himself seriously & maybe this wound people up even more as he wouldn’t bite to any of the headlines.
I'm a huge Genesis fan and can not overstate PC's contribution to music throughout the 70's and 80's. I don't really get on with the his solo stuff, with the exception of a few tracks here and there. People disliked him because it became fashionable to do so. He was everywhere in the 80's and came across as a big head, which I don't believe he was, but he was portrayed as such by the 'cool' music press.
Love it!! Thanks for sharing!!
Yes I agree much like Coldplay today or other pop artists where it’s in vogue to not like what’s popular. Ironically.
To answer this question with one simple word : Jealousy. And if "people hate Phil Collins", then who bought the MILLIONS of albums and singles that he's sold in his career ?
He’s one of those people who are so talented that they have so much success and are so ubiquitous that people start to get a bit annoyed to keep hearing about them. The same thing happens to people like Taylor Swift.
I think what I found that some people didn't appreciate about Genesis and Phil Collins music was that some of the songs/hits were social commentary. U2 had sort of the same problem too in 80s. However, in the 80s & 90s until grunge & alternative came along, people wanted upbeat pop music to just escape reality from and Phil wasn't to shy away from serious topics in his music. Apart from Live Aid music, and group collaborations, eg. Northern Lights, USA for Africa, Band-Aid, some people didn't want to hear about homelessness, poverty, etc. Here was an uber popular AAA artist singing about important issues.
The closest artist who gets the same type of attention nowaways would be Taylor Swift. And for some people, it's just not the fact of the ballads; they were break up songs. Depressing. It's what inspired him though. Like Taylor, he uses music as therapy. They were throwaway songs but they resonated so well. :)
A lot of Genesis songs had quite heavy subject matter. Most people didn't realise because the music was quite light. Harold The Barrel is about a guy who has a breakdown and commits suicide. Inside and Out is about a guy wrongly imprisoned for rape.
I think a Genesis instrumental album would have been cool. I wish a lot of bands would have released at least one instrumental album in their careers, kind of like how they release cover albums or live albums. Record labels probably wouldn’t go for that sort of thing unfortunately.
Phil Collins is the Mozart of this generation. He is insanely skilled in music. He writes songs, plays multiple instruments, sings in multiple languages and he is one of the top of the drummers. He played for many different bands. It is something like this, "our drummer is sick", "oh call Phil".
LOL, great, great video Scott - love it. I thought the live aid and FAX hate stuff was stupid then and is most definitely stupid now (I'm old). Cheers, Ian :)
Thanks Ian!!!
The fax hate nonsense was so ridiculous. I like Phil Collins because he is talented and intelligent
Great piece! You hit the nail, and I feel the same way about Phil. I´ve read "Not Dead Yet" four times. It´s a recommendation, especially for all Phil-haters out there.
:)
Going to be doing a book club on that book on the Patreon starting soon!
I work in a large retail store, where Phil's music is routinely blasted into our eardrums. They have this glassy, reverb, grating, trash-can, Pop vibe, that i find unappealing and not pleasant. His best song, arguably, is Sussudio. It has clever horn lines, and quite catchy (even if we have no idea what the song is talking about. More on that later.) IMHO, his most annoying song is In The Air Tonight. It's his pronunciation of "OH LORD" . It sounds like "OH LONG." That, combined with the fact that Phil is SHOUTING AT US, while his music video is a b&w image of his face, makes it unbearable to listen to and visualize. Another problem ìs, his songs aren't really relatable, or have a point that anyone seems to care about. Don't Lose My Number, is a perfect example. Why is Phil singing about some other dude not losing his number? The only coherent lyric when listening to it is "Billy, don't ya lose my numbaaaa'".....okay, why all the fuss? 🤔. The thing Phil has going for him, he's very good at promoting himself and being convincing, and appeals to a pop-art vibe crowd.
His tapes were some of the few I listend to regularly in the 80s especially when was at sea
Wow! So cool!
I never hated Phil. My own opinion is that none of the music Phil was involved with from 1980 on was music I cared for. I didn't know anything about his personal life, I didn't really follow anything about him other than the actual music he came out with. The Phil Collins that played drums on Genesis albums from 1971 - 1973 was probably my favorite drummer. I didn't dislike him as a singer. I don't hate Phil for doing what he wanted to do in the 80s, I just didn't care for any of it.
Great outlook my friend!! Thanks for watching!!
I was one of the guys who "hated" him. Hate is a strong word I never actually hated him, but I was born in 1979 so the first two decades of my life I remember being sick of hearing Phil all over the place. I didn't discover early Genesis until I was 15 and immediately became a fan of 70s Genesis but always saw 80s/90s Genesis as cheesy and viewed Phil Collins as the reason for the band's downfall. It wasn't until I was older and had explored the catalog and band's history more fully that I came to appreciate the later Phil Collins stuff. Now I love all of it, in fact my band is doing a cover of Easy Lover, a song I used to loathe but now love and find it a lot of fun to play. It's weird how these things happen. Maybe it's because I've matured or maybe it's because popular music today is just so bad that even the stuff I used to hate in the 80s and 90s stuff looks so better by comparison. It's sort of similar to the fans of the original star wars trilogy who used to hate the prequels but now have come to appreciate it because of how bad Disney Star Wars has been. Who knows, maybe in 20 years time I'll be nostalgic for the music and Disney Star Wars films of today.
That being said, I disagree with your assertion that the real reason people hated him was becuase he didn't fit the mold of a rockstar. If anything I respected him more for that, even in the 80s and 90s when I was sick of hearing and seeing him all over the place.
I think it was a question of Envy: Why this guy is gaining so much money by making such commercial music??? Well, not only the Best Drummer in Rock for me but a Very Very Talented Musician Singer/Producer/Songwriter who wrote with Gold Letters the 2nd Important Era of Genesis, the whole 1980s ( both Solo & Genesis ) Decade & Amazing Songs & Albums in the 1990s…I mean that commercial music came with a big amount of quality..or isn’t Michael Jackson’s Thriller a non-commercial Album? It was apart from being a commercial album, it was also an Excellent Album…And ruined Genesis…so dumb people who said that..Not only not ruined but Enriched the band with his Powerful Style of Drumming plus his Unique Voice which fitted perfectly with the band’s trax…And Against All Odds ( one of the Best Ballads Ever ) or Easy Lover ( one of the Most Electrifying Drum Performances of All Time ), both released in 1984 ( my favorite year )..Those people were soooo Wrong!
Great point!!!
It wasn't that he didn't conform or that he didn't have a "schtick." He was over-exposed and over-played. He was constantly on the radio + his Genesis work. He was even on a couple of episodes of Miami Vice. It became too much, and people took him for granted.
you are totally right: the first reasons are basically excuses for the people that we're kind of jealous that a "average joe" could be that great and successful.
Totally!!
Phil is one of a kind and I respect him for that, he’s unique and a big influence to me!! 😁👍
Same here!!
@@EverythingPhilCollins He’s a big influence on me, him and Mark King from Level 42 who played bass for Phil back in 2011 I think!! 😀👍
Wow, I wrote my review before I heard this entire video and my take was exactly yours! Great minds think alike.
People who hate an artist that is successful are just weird. It is ok to not like their music. But look at any popular band or solo artists and there are sheep saying how can’t stand them because they think they’re being cool.
Scott, I have to agree with you on your “Real Reason” why everyone hated Phil. He was just an everyday guy. I was friends with one of Genesis’ Roadies for about I want to say a Decade (don’t quote me about that one.) But I understood who he was and the people he knew, however he was my friend. I asked him without fail about his family. I didn’t care who he knew etc. I know for a fact that he worked with Peter and Steve H. towards the end of his life. But last I heard they moved to North Carolina and he passed away. (Maybe it was COVID 19, I don’t really know). The reason why I know he worked with Peter is I showed him my UP booklet with his signature on it and verified that it was indeed his Signature. Enough about my Roadie friend. Funny thing about that is for about a decade he lived about 30 minutes from me and I’ll never forgive myself for not visiting him. The end. He was the Roadie from 78-83
All those reasons were crazy because they didn’t know where to put Phil. Better attack him they had nothing better to do.
Wow! Such a cool story! Thanks friend!!
So, people hate Phil Collins because everybody loves Phil Collins. SMH. Phil Collins is one of my favorite artists of all time and Genesis (since Duke) is one of my favorite bands of all time. The Invisible Touch tour was such a treat. I absolutely loved the fact that Phil didn't leave Genesis after Face Value. He had both a solo career and career with Genesis and we all benefited from that.
What, hate Phillip, no i had always loved and respected this man for his entertainment and personality, even in Genesis, Brand x or solo. All those earhanger, has formed my music life so much. But saddly, all good has an ending, but i Hope he still may have many butyfull years, even his sickness. Just say ,thanks for all the music, god bless you, Phillip Collins. And to you, great komment, video, respect . 🥁👍🤗
Thanks for watching!!
Really great and honest appraisal of why Phil bashing became such a national pastime either side of the Atlantic Ocean and one I fell into myself. He wasn’t perfect but maybe, just maybe, should be held in higher esteem for his achievements than I have given him credit for or indeed others of more importance.
Well argued and presented and done with a passion. All the best Dave✅✅
Thanks Dave!!
I didn't know people hated Phil Collins?
The real reason: you absolutely right 👍🏼
!!!! :)
You kinda glossed over the contents of the fax, it was strongly worded. For me it's a private message and things are said in the heat of the moment and we move on.
Yes, I don't want to touch too much on the personal stuff...
I thought the press didn't know when to stop with the fax.We all have said and done things that we regret
That was a really good assessment of Phil Collins and the vitriol he has experienced in his career, particularly from the British media and you have nailed it in all areas. I think it is the criticism the British press gave, coupled with his inability to deal with the criticism that gave this impression of being hated, even though I felt more people loved his music than not. I think he also came from a Prog Rock background and he never was seen as edgy as a solo artist which is sad, because he was a leftfield drummer and musician, working with Brand X, Eno, Gabriel's solo career and many more and created some fantastic music.
5:05 I Think Phil Even played a tad on Plants first Solo album.
Wow! Who knew? Phil Collins is perfect 🙄
Couldn't agree more! ;)
Perfect analysis. I’ve come to the same conclusion but you verbalized better.
:)
main reason is all those Peter Gabriel widows. He was a tremendous drummer for that band when they were prog, then Collins took them in a different journey, if he didn’t Genesis would’ve been another Jethro Tull.
Who?
Exactly.
Very interesting ideas, and I thought (wrongly) that I heard them all. No need for me to add anything to them. But it does remind me about something I heard a comedian say about Phil.
He was walking into a store wearing a Phil Collins shirt, and this kid was making fun it. So the guy says that he sees young people like this kid wearing Phil shirts too. The kid replies, "Yeah, but when I wear a Phil Collins shirt, I wear it ironically." Just a funny comment on how Phil affected different generations differently.
I think it all comes down to snobbery. Some people think that Phil represents everything that was 'wrong' with the 80s music: shiny synth-pop, drum machine music etc. People simply think they're intellectually superior and have better taste in music if they crap on Phil. It's way more cool to like or at least pretend to like The Smiths, Bob Dylan, Genesis etc than Phil. Majority of people who disregard the quality of his solo career, at least his quality as a pop musician (if nothing else), are mostly people who don't have good hearing enough to recognize or compose good music. All that irrational hate is simply for them to boost their own ego. And to be honest, I always preffered his solo career way more than Genesis whose music I find mostly to be immature while pretending to be more than it is. It's technically very skilled music by very skilled musicians. I don't care much for the Peter Gabriel era to be honest. There's always in their songs that predictable chord progression of many ugly chords that pretend to be unpredictable. I couldn't care less for such music. That still doesn't mean that I think that Genesis are bad. Far from that. They are innovative and an important part of music culture. They're just not for me (most of the time). I still like 'Duchess', 'Mama' and some other songs from Phil's period. I prefer Phil's atmospheric songs like 'Thru These Walls', 'In the Air Tonight', 'Don't Lose My Number', 'Droned/Hand in Hand', 'Long Long Way To Go' etc. Horn sections in his more uptempo songs are brilliant. I don't have anything against his ballads, especially 'One More Night', 'Against All Odds', 'Another Day in Paradise', 'I Wish It Would Rain Down' etc. I love those.
I didn't like 'Both Sides', 'Testify', 'Going Back' and 'Brother Bear' albums very much. Everything else is great IMO. I also think that one of the main reasons why some people hate him so much is that they couldn't forgive his success and for being so trendy and successful at it during the, "oh so horrible", 80s era.
His real fans love him as a drummer *...so when he became a pop star...? But for success I appreciate his ability to do everything..bravo I don't hate him..hes sincere
Love the guy!
Noel Gallagher has said in interviews isn't a fan of Phil Collins or Stings solo career
Gallagher is one of the most overrated figures in publicity and definitely no reference whatsoever to good taste in music.
Excellent video ! I think you know very well your subject.
Thank you very much!
8:50 A quote from Tony Banks (more or less) related to this: "Our hits are maybe not our best work, but it's what we'll be remembered for."
A bit of an understatement, to be fair.
wat a legend just jealous folks he's a genius proper legend❤
Agree! Haha
I hate people who hate Phil Collins. I’m not sure it’s exactly the group Karl Popper had in mind when he said don’t tolerate the intolerant, but they’re as good a group as any to start with.
One of the "reasons" in the UK is he apparently said he would leave the country if the Labour Party were elected because they would make richer people pay more tax. He did leave in 1997 when Labour were elected but he actually moved to Switzerland to be with his wife.
I think he's addressed this back in the 2000s. He's actually not conservative at all... leaving was for his new wife, as you mentioned...
@@EverythingPhilCollins Phil to me seems pretty dead centre. Stuff like Another Day in Paradise (homelessness) and That's Just the Way it Is (The Troubles), that wasn't politically partisan, that was just what I call common decency if that makes any sense. Colours (anti-Apartheid). I agree with that too. Screw Apartheid. The unsilent majority have long spoken. Not that I would have Mandela over for Christmas dinner if he were still alive but 2 wrongs didn't make a right. Most of the time, Phil would rather that music be just for entertainment and escapism. I'm aware Phil never left England because taxes but Sting whom is a left wing but that didn't stop hm from being a tax exile when he hightailed to Ireland for a brief time in the early 80's and plus he's no younger a registered Labour after the UK's involvement in the Iraq War.
Because self-hating music snobs and critics have some very deep seated problems.
I’m a fan of Phil Collins, he actually did a TV show in the U.K. called “Room 101” and he was very funny on it. He did talk a little about his politics and the whole “dumping his wife by fax” thing.
It’s also worth noting that a lot of the stuff around Phil Collins does have its roots in the fact that it’s alleged that he’s a Tory (which he denies) and that he’s a tax exile, which he might be.
The music isn’t commented on as much here in the U.K. it’s largely about his politics, his wealth and the fact that Noel Gallagher doesn’t like him.
He cheated on Jill with his high-school sweetheart Lavinia on the we can't dance tour
I think you hit the nail right on the head there mate. His image was the main issue, and the other stuff was just minor circumstance.
As for his music, I love Phil’s solo and Genesis stuff, but I’ve never been a fan of his ballads. Many Too Many and Ripples are the only ones I listen to.
Keep up the great work.
I love Phil Collins
Me too!
Great commentary and spot on.
Thank you kindly
You hit the nail on the head. Excellent insights.
Thanks!
I Always Admired Brand X Music. Worth a mention. Good Video.
Great band!
My brother and I had been joking by the mid 80's that Phil was everywhere. We thought that he should have sang "stu-stu-studio" instead of "su--sussudio" since he seemed to live at recording studios (probably why he couldn't make a marriage work). I think appearing at both Live-aid shows just topped everything off. In my eyes, he had become nothing more than a "musical mercenary". That being said, I certainly never hated Phil, just kind of got sick of him and, because of that, got sick of Genesis. All these years later, I can appreciate the later albums he made with Genesis but, at the time, I had no interest whatsoever.
I LOVE Phil Collins!!!!
Same!
4:42 Are you trying to say there might have been a Communication Breakdown with Bonhams son? ( Led Zep Pun Type reference. )
Gen X (like me) used to hate Phil Collins for the simple fact that he was constantly on the radio and when he wasn't our parent were playing his songs, which, for a teen/kid those songs were boring and they all sounded the same and had all the same lyrics (love songs lyrics are so generic that sound all the same).
Of course we all went crazy when we found out he was the drummer of much band who played much more interesting music (Genesis with peter Gabriel as singer).
Loved this, but in 94 Fax Machines were not new tech whatsoever-came out in the 70's but then started to even more evolve in the 80's!
Like In 1985, Hank Magnuski, founder of GammaLink, produced the first computer fax board, called Gamma Fax. Such boards could provide voice telephony via Analog Expansion Bus!
And Into Deep wasn't Phil Collins but Genesis song!
Yes, a fax in 1994 would be seen as impersonal, not new tech. Faxes were for business, not relationships.
still works.. Lewis Capaldi, Ed Sheeran just to name a few
I was thinking this exact same thing.
You make a good case, but your theory doesn't explain how so many of Phil's fans who liked and related to him during the height of his fame,
subsequently turned on him in the 90s and beyond. Did they fall victim to the other 5 reasons you mentioned and had second thoughts?
I will never get the hate Phil Collins gets.
he wasn't a "normal dude" at all. he was funny. he was entertaining and genuine. he was smart and likable. he told brilliant stories at concerts, and i'd turn up night after night to listen to them, as well as the music. people are drawn to all of those qualities that are not found in many. that's what made him so attractive to women, especially.
Huh? Speak for yourself. I've never met any woman who was attracted to Phil Collins. In the 1980's, women lusted for Simon LeBon from Duran Duran. Even David Bowie was always more desired by women than Phil Collins.
People “hate” Phil Collins?!? He was ubiquitous in the 1980s, but “hate” is a strong word…
Agree! But some folks certainly do…
Morrissey also known for harsh faxing
Inspector Good can do no wrong in my eyes.
My stepdad used to love PC, but it was the infidelity that made him hate him. Personally? Never liked him.
The only criticism i have of phil Collins is his later albums were a bit bland.