a few thoughts, generally a great list and appreciate the time it takes to make such a large list! -port musk is better than italian in every way: gets attack in age2, hp age3, and combat cards that effect cass as well, plus royal guard. musk cannon w/ huss (of which ports get basic stats and better eco than italy to pump) is a true and tried method for ports into many matchups thx to organ changes. Also, with constables afffecting halbs and ports low seige base, port halbs are very common in ff and do their job fantastically when paired with cass/cannon. a must have vs civs like malta or otto. -club warriors are a must have for lakota, you need their seige early in many matchups. lakota rework robbed their ability to deal with walls or towers early so clubs are basically a must have vs musk huss or pike/xbow in age2, cetan/club works well. at least c tier imho -tomos with their animation fix are actually pretty decent and have good scaling; and are one of the best musk in game with 30/40% on stats or 40/50% from cards/WC. Solid hand attack prevents lancer types from trading cost effectively as well. really improved especially paired with aenna changes -fwiw azaps switch armor type in stances so do as good as muskets in melee vs cav. -ruskets with the age4 card are probably the best stat per res heavy infantry in the game: ofc russia struggles to not die in age3 these days but its a solid unit to scale behind with arsenal and in teams with cards can get very, very nasty for its pop. this is mostly 1v1 focused tier, but worth mentioning thanks again for the hard work! See ya next season o7
Hey there, great points ! - The Italian musketeer has been put very high because of the Schiavone and the fact that you can macro food-wood and still double-batch them through lombards if you are pushed off of coin, which is huge. The high-tier is thus not given by the stats, but by the viability of the unit at any point and situation. - CW are weird. They are decent and certainly can be here for the siege. But more often than not, when you are sieging as lakota, you are just finishing a won game or struggling to make a comeback. You are thus *forced* to make them. I however argue about the existence of a Xpike for Lakota, where the club has a decent place. - Tomos are a B-tier for me because they are good, but don't feel unfair like some others. I could see them A tier for the same argument as the maltese pike : Aennas are godlike now, so you tend to see the Food-wood Haud army more often. - Azap are already S, Stop pushing them higher ! :p - Ruskets will always be hard to rate :D Thank you for the comment !
@@dunamaiTheSheep Thanks for the reply. As for the italian musk i think I just see them used differently. Besides Schiavone being slow to mass and often not much value into musk huss, and every map having 2+ safe coin mines, the chances italy hasn't towered/lombarded a bunker and instead of 2x rax goes to 3 or 4 is pretty slim. their best units, paivse and berselagari, even the schiavonne, are both skirms and pair much better with goon/heavy cav. And the attack card in 2 being only melee means you got the most basic of age2 musk unless opponent throws cav into musks carelessly with a civ that wants to get its light infantry upgrades and merc shipments out. I rarely see musks spammed in 1v1's unless its a age3 timing, age2 italy content to play sim city 90% of time. compare with ports who get so much more synergy with their musk, who can dominate other musks and preform their job very well with serviceable huss, and their long term eco synergizes with a all around cheap meatshield like musk, i just think the italian musk belongs much lower even if italy can spam them their really barely better then french age2 musk. As for Lakota clubs, I dont know how much you've played them recently but the -50% damage to walls for their cav base and nerfed seige dance means eco civs simply can wall you out and reduced damage to their bow rider villager attack means simply put, you cant afford to naked or semi ff into many civs these days. there are times, common now in this defesnive meta, where cav alone wont cut it and minimum 6/5club shipment should be in most decks as well as 2x war huts since you will have to push and use their seige to prevent many civs from zoning you out of half the map and stopping any raiding from damaging you. japan, brits, china, dutch, malta, italy, african civs all require some early aggresion to prevent their eco from simply overtaking you and the club is solid at that job, killing cav and being cheapish and fast. its not amazing, but its certainly viable unit. Thanks for reply!
This is true, with the Schavoni Swords card. But note that Brit/Ports musks still have a better hand attack because of overall better carding/teching. (HP/Attack/Combat/RG)
Spanish pikes should be C, they have royal guard upgrades and in late game they can be instant spam with the right cards. I know that's it but what would be the point to put them separate from regular pike if not better.
Sepoy is good but it got nerfed vs cavalery and has a multiplier of 1.75x vs cav and do about same dmg in melee vs cav as a russian musk do. So they are abit too expensive imo.
Sorry if I’m missing it, but why do you not include Grenadier in your tier lists? How would you categorise it, Heavy Inf or Artillery? Interested to hear your thoughts, as they’re one of my favourite units.
it has a heavy infantry, a role closest to artillery, and yet still feels so far removed from either i usually dont include it in any lists. short answer is if you have the cards to make grens work, they're good. if not, they're absolutely terrible horrendous wastes of resouces
@@bisongaming729thanks for the quick answer! I suspected you’d rank them low. I know they’re not great, particularly if they’re forced into hand attack, but I just find them fun to use.
I'd say the Plumed Spearman is A tier, anything it touches loses against them, combos absurdly well with the Jungle Bowman and does nothing bad, too much Hp too
@@bisongaming729 I'd say B+/Low A- ? Availability is meh because if you have the time to send an age 3 card giving you 0 tempo you won as Dutch anyway, but if you get there you can stay in base and spam them till the end of times.
Not really, i mean, i agree JPK needs more buff, but they do counter dopps at least, dopp is actually needing even more buffs, also samurai, their identity is also an Anti-melee unit, but they are way worse than halbs, and that's saying something
That's an oversight, they should be about equal on the tier list. Just imagine pumas moved up on the list to be next to raj They are equally good and important to their civs
I am at azap part. After azaps were released, they were nerfed twice. Then they were buffed twice and then they were only tweaked. I am sorry but you are absolutely looking one-sided. Check otto win rates at aoe3 companion and you wont see any other civ more balanced than ottomans.
@@bisongaming729 also these guys can be available in unknown map when all players receive a maya pyramid in age 2 with maya techs and trainable light artillery, villagers , the native unit for maya and another on that look exactly the same but they are melee anti-cav not musketeers like (also all of the are upgradable and the cruzbo locked to age 5)
lol he keeps saying rapujit, ppl who actually belong to rajputs tribe would be angry right now. rajput is a tribe or a family lineage. here in pakistan and india they are still praised as a worrier class.
Maybe next year it would be better to split them in two tier list. Melee and ranged heavy infantry
Agreed
Here watching in my work van as I drive; gonna make the trek more enjoyable!
a few thoughts, generally a great list and appreciate the time it takes to make such a large list!
-port musk is better than italian in every way: gets attack in age2, hp age3, and combat cards that effect cass as well, plus royal guard. musk cannon w/ huss (of which ports get basic stats and better eco than italy to pump) is a true and tried method for ports into many matchups thx to organ changes. Also, with constables afffecting halbs and ports low seige base, port halbs are very common in ff and do their job fantastically when paired with cass/cannon. a must have vs civs like malta or otto.
-club warriors are a must have for lakota, you need their seige early in many matchups. lakota rework robbed their ability to deal with walls or towers early so clubs are basically a must have vs musk huss or pike/xbow in age2, cetan/club works well. at least c tier imho
-tomos with their animation fix are actually pretty decent and have good scaling; and are one of the best musk in game with 30/40% on stats or 40/50% from cards/WC. Solid hand attack prevents lancer types from trading cost effectively as well. really improved especially paired with aenna changes
-fwiw azaps switch armor type in stances so do as good as muskets in melee vs cav.
-ruskets with the age4 card are probably the best stat per res heavy infantry in the game: ofc russia struggles to not die in age3 these days but its a solid unit to scale behind with arsenal and in teams with cards can get very, very nasty for its pop. this is mostly 1v1 focused tier, but worth mentioning
thanks again for the hard work! See ya next season o7
Hey there, great points !
- The Italian musketeer has been put very high because of the Schiavone and the fact that you can macro food-wood and still double-batch them through lombards if you are pushed off of coin, which is huge. The high-tier is thus not given by the stats, but by the viability of the unit at any point and situation.
- CW are weird. They are decent and certainly can be here for the siege. But more often than not, when you are sieging as lakota, you are just finishing a won game or struggling to make a comeback. You are thus *forced* to make them. I however argue about the existence of a Xpike for Lakota, where the club has a decent place.
- Tomos are a B-tier for me because they are good, but don't feel unfair like some others. I could see them A tier for the same argument as the maltese pike : Aennas are godlike now, so you tend to see the Food-wood Haud army more often.
- Azap are already S, Stop pushing them higher ! :p
- Ruskets will always be hard to rate :D
Thank you for the comment !
@@dunamaiTheSheep Thanks for the reply. As for the italian musk i think I just see them used differently. Besides Schiavone being slow to mass and often not much value into musk huss, and every map having 2+ safe coin mines, the chances italy hasn't towered/lombarded a bunker and instead of 2x rax goes to 3 or 4 is pretty slim. their best units, paivse and berselagari, even the schiavonne, are both skirms and pair much better with goon/heavy cav. And the attack card in 2 being only melee means you got the most basic of age2 musk unless opponent throws cav into musks carelessly with a civ that wants to get its light infantry upgrades and merc shipments out. I rarely see musks spammed in 1v1's unless its a age3 timing, age2 italy content to play sim city 90% of time. compare with ports who get so much more synergy with their musk, who can dominate other musks and preform their job very well with serviceable huss, and their long term eco synergizes with a all around cheap meatshield like musk, i just think the italian musk belongs much lower even if italy can spam them their really barely better then french age2 musk.
As for Lakota clubs, I dont know how much you've played them recently but the -50% damage to walls for their cav base and nerfed seige dance means eco civs simply can wall you out and reduced damage to their bow rider villager attack means simply put, you cant afford to naked or semi ff into many civs these days. there are times, common now in this defesnive meta, where cav alone wont cut it and minimum 6/5club shipment should be in most decks as well as 2x war huts since you will have to push and use their seige to prevent many civs from zoning you out of half the map and stopping any raiding from damaging you. japan, brits, china, dutch, malta, italy, african civs all require some early aggresion to prevent their eco from simply overtaking you and the club is solid at that job, killing cav and being cheapish and fast. its not amazing, but its certainly viable unit. Thanks for reply!
Amazing job
Oh hell yeah, made it just in time to see the beginning. Very good point about Italian musks. Also iirc they have better hand attack than other musks?
This is true, with the Schavoni Swords card. But note that Brit/Ports musks still have a better hand attack because of overall better carding/teching. (HP/Attack/Combat/RG)
Spanish pikes should be C, they have royal guard upgrades and in late game they can be instant spam with the right cards. I know that's it but what would be the point to put them separate from regular pike if not better.
Sepoy is good but it got nerfed vs cavalery and has a multiplier of 1.75x vs cav and do about same dmg in melee vs cav as a russian musk do. So they are abit too expensive imo.
you could make a faction army tier list
Sorry if I’m missing it, but why do you not include Grenadier in your tier lists? How would you categorise it, Heavy Inf or Artillery? Interested to hear your thoughts, as they’re one of my favourite units.
it has a heavy infantry, a role closest to artillery, and yet still feels so far removed from either i usually dont include it in any lists. short answer is if you have the cards to make grens work, they're good. if not, they're absolutely terrible horrendous wastes of resouces
@@bisongaming729thanks for the quick answer! I suspected you’d rank them low. I know they’re not great, particularly if they’re forced into hand attack, but I just find them fun to use.
Just found the channel and subbed, btw. I come back to this game every couple of years.
@@JacobDTulio welcome back! Came back at a great time
@@bisongaming729in my experience Grenade launcher, Heavy Cav and Mortar do very well against Goon-Skirm or Musk-Arti
I'd say the Plumed Spearman is A tier, anything it touches loses against them, combos absurdly well with the Jungle Bowman and does nothing bad, too much Hp too
its mostly only in B because its not as speedy and therefore not as good at chasing and snaring cav, but i fully agree its a very good solid unit!!
I thougth you say on other video that you would include dutch higthlanders for this top = (
CRAP you're totally right I forgot about that!! It's easy to overlook things like that when dealing with this many units.
@@bisongaming729 I'd say B+/Low A- ? Availability is meh because if you have the time to send an age 3 card giving you 0 tempo you won as Dutch anyway, but if you get there you can stay in base and spam them till the end of times.
No Cruzob Infantry? :(
Its based as a revolutionary unit and he mention he will not include them
Jaguar prowler knight needs hella buffs, it's whole identity is anti melee and it losses to Dopple mass.
Not really, i mean, i agree JPK needs more buff, but they do counter dopps at least, dopp is actually needing even more buffs, also samurai, their identity is also an Anti-melee unit, but they are way worse than halbs, and that's saying something
How are Rajputs better than Pumas?
That's an oversight, they should be about equal on the tier list. Just imagine pumas moved up on the list to be next to raj
They are equally good and important to their civs
I am at azap part. After azaps were released, they were nerfed twice. Then they were buffed twice and then they were only tweaked. I am sorry but you are absolutely looking one-sided. Check otto win rates at aoe3 companion and you wont see any other civ more balanced than ottomans.
Doesn't mean the AZAP isn't S tier. Also I'm aware Otto isn't busted, I just don't like them and have a negative bias towards them
Yes, I remember your feelings towards Ottomans from previous videos 😆
@@bisongaming729what is it about ottomans you dont like ? My worst civs are U.S and african civs.
Guys cruzob inf missing and are amazing
We noticed but it's too late now
These units are revolutionary units (Maya). If they were here, they would not even be S tier. They are amazing, but you need age V for them.
Oh I thought this was on the outlaws list lol. Yeah not including revolt units here otherwise this would be a 4 hour video instead of 3
@@bisongaming729 also these guys can be available in unknown map when all players receive a maya pyramid in age 2 with maya techs and trainable light artillery, villagers , the native unit for maya and another on that look exactly the same but they are melee anti-cav not musketeers like (also all of the are upgradable and the cruzbo locked to age 5)
lol he keeps saying rapujit, ppl who actually belong to rajputs tribe would be angry right now. rajput is a tribe or a family lineage. here in pakistan and india they are still praised as a worrier class.