Did the Nox and Asgard hate each other?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- #stargate #theory #stargatesg1
The Asgard and Nox, two former members of the four great race alliance. Some of the most powerful races in all of Stargate. Did they hate each other?
/ sg_2_4
www.reddit.com...
www.facebook.c...
I like the idea of the Alliance being established millions of years ago. The Alliance could have been broken up by the plague, with each race finding their own way to deal with it. The Nox went into isolation and developed their resurrection ritual. The Asgard genetically engineered clones that were immune to the plague. The Ancients went to Pegasus to escape the plague. The Furling could have been mostly wiped out by the plague.
Maybe that's why the furlings were invested in the goa'uld, they used their healing capabilities to fight against the plague.
The Alliance had to have been established less than 100,000 years ago because that's how old Asgard civilisation is. The Alliance didn't exist yet when the Ancients left for the Pegasus Galaxy.
The Furling are the giant aliens..
@@tompearce5418 When the ancients departed for the pegasus galaxy they likely maintained some sort of presence, even if just as observers, in the milky way as we know they were the ones who built the machine to reboot the life in the milky way.
The "alliance" could have just been a cooperative agreement to protect life in the milky way from any external, hostile, forces so that the galaxy could recover. As species became advanced enough, and with overlapping ideologies, they were added to the alliance. Or they went from a loose friend group to a formal alliance due to some event.
Sadly making sense of any of this kind of stuff is going to be difficult as there simply isnt enough first party information on this topic. especially since the stargate official timelines dont line up with IRL ones.
@@tompearce5418I really don't like the decision to make the Asgard so young. I didn't like how later seasons of SG-1 kept making the Ancients more and more advanced and at the center of everything. Why couldn't other species have developed to a high level of technology? It just makes the universe feel small when everyone is connected to the Ancients.
I remember an episode where Jack wanted Thor to tell him what to do (I think it was in relation to receiving protection from the Asgard). Thor wouldn't even twitch to give a hint to Jack. This exchange tells me that the Asgard will remain hands off without an invitation of some sort. If the Nox tell the Asgard they don't want to be involved with galactic affairs, I think the Asgard would absolutely respect that.
In other words, they don't hate each other; they just leave each other alone.
True, but here is a question.
Could the Nox have helped the Asgard with their clone issue?
@@petert3355 My guess is probably not. The Asgard were the master cloners in the galaxy (or rather at least 2 known galaxies) and had been doing it for tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of years. So if the experts couldn't figure it out, no one could. And from what very little is shown of the Nox, my guess is they have zero cloning tech based on their ideology. Maybe its not that they hate or have an aversion to cloning, but because natural biology is so good, cloning would never come to them as an idea to be researched. Tech isnt always linear and as an in cannon example, Thor admits human weapons are better against the replicators because the Asguard would never would have come up with the idea of using an explosion to propel a projectile that can physically damage them (I dont remember his exact quote but you get the idea).
@@petert3355 We do not know of the Nox capabilities other than what was shown in the show.
"Meddler"
"Fence sitter"
"War Monger"
"Apathetic enabler"
i'd pay good money to just have half an hour of the 2 wisest Asgard debating the 2 wisest Nox
and the final minute just being this
a long string of witty insults
Now I want to see that.
@@bthsr7113 "genetic abomination" ... "kazon had better hair"
I see your theory and raise you mine. What if the reason the Asgard and Nox don't interact has something to do with the fate of the Furlings? What if whatever caused the Furlings to vanish drove a permanent wedge in the Great Alliance? Be it a war, plague, forced exile...whatever happened was bad enough to make them go their separate ways. The fate of the Furlings has always fascinated me, and your theory opens up a possibility for a possible explanation of something happening to explain both. TY!
Dang, that’s actually a really good theory. Something to look into later.
Has anyone ever posited the theory that the Furlings' home- like the Asgard and technically the Ancients- was in another galaxy? They probably returned to their own galaxy at some point, and that would explain their lack of presence in our galaxy.
@davetycho8330 that is a popular theory.
@@davetycho8330 I have seen this topic debated on different channels and threads. And it's more interesting than it first seems. We know the Ancients and Asgard were multi-galactic civilizations. We don't know for certain if the Nox and Furlings were, but it's a possibility, and I personally believe that at a certain level of technology it almost seems a given, but that's my theory. One of the problems with Stargate is we don't really know the geopolitics of the past/present for other races other than Humans from Earth. (As we are seeing the story from their experience that makes sense). It's possible there are still living Ancients, Asgard, Furling, Nox.....in many galaxies and we just never met them and/or never will. The show implies that no, they are all gone...and it's like...prove it. There's a question of how the great powers divided their territory, and how many galaxies were under their control or shared (if any). I mean we never learn why the Great Alliance was only in the Milky Way that we know of. This is odd if they all have multiple galaxies under their belts. I like to believe that the Great Alliance was created because these were the most powerful races in several local galaxies, so they were constantly in contact and dealing with each other...so they had to do something for peaceful co-existence. Some people think the Alliance was because they wanted to be shepherds for younger races in the Milky Way...but why? If they have many galaxies what makes the Milky Way special? Wouldn't this be needed in all galaxies? And why all four of them, wouldn't the dominant race be the shepherd?
@@unarealtaragionevole Perhaps because the 4 ancient races had some foresight, that the 5th race would come from the Milky Way Galaxy? Though they did not emerge in the time of the Alliance.
I'm kind of surprised the Nox didn't ascend. They're already mostly for non-interference and seem extra spiritual. Maybe they're still on the path and this is part of the rift between them and the Asgard, who can't ascend because of cloning. Like you said, it's easy to imagine the Nox being opposed to cloning, possibly even being judgemental and 'we told you so'
I suspect the Nox would be open to ascending but only "naturally" instead of speeding it up by tech like the Ancients did.
Perhaps they sometimes do ascend. However they are much more patient than the ancients and wait until their mortal life is coming to it's conclusion then consider the matter carefully. If it makes sense they ascend, if not they don't
I honestly think the Nox are the kind to accept life, and death, as it is for the most part. They do occasionally undo a recent death, one cause by a sentient disrupting the natural flow of life, but otherwise let things be as they are.
I know the series likes to focus on the biological aspect of ascension, but there is also a mental aspect of it. Adria was engineered to be near ascension like the Nox and Rodney was also whacked by that machine that puts you on the path to ascension and they both had to prepare for it mentally. On that note, Elizabeth Weir mentioned that she couldn’t teach the Replicators how to “release their burdens” since they weren’t capable of understanding what that meant. My guess, based on my own spiritual knowledge (for lack of a better term) means that they can’t come to reflect on their lives and mentally move on from this existence. Oberoth mentioned that so long as the collective exists, none of them can die. So, I’m guessing since they can’t comprehend their existence ending, they can’t ascend. Since the Asgard cloning is effectively immortality (so long as their tech continue to function) they probably can’t go through the mental journey requires to ascend since they cant comprehend the notion of facing their own mortality. Biologically, we know the Priors are close to ascension and we have DNA samples of them, which in theory could have solved the cloning issue or at least given the Asgard a second option.
I have asked this quest also. I always felt that Ascension is the exact opposite of the goal of the Knox. The Ancients and ascension to me always personified the idea that we have the potential to fully separate ourselves from the natural order...and the goal of the Nox, to me at least, seemed more like they wanted to fully become one with the natural order. Who knows maybe two paths to the same mountain peak, but very different types of paths to take in my opinion.
@@unarealtaragionevole
The tokrah want to be one with the natural order the goa'uld want to dominate it but i agree with you regarding the nox.
I don't think the Asgard disliked the Nox, because i think the Asgard don't generally dislike people for failing to intervene. They appreciated the help from the Tau'ri but as long as there wasn't a renegade Nox building bioweapons it was fine that the Nox stayed out of their way. The Nox are basically in the same position as the Tollans.
I'm not actually sure the ancients are the intermediary between the Nox and the Asgard. I actually feel like the Asgard were the intermediary between the Ancients and the Nox. The Ancients seem significantly the most Mad Science of the four great races in terms of their lack of caution and their creation of massive galactic threats by accident. In comparison the Asgard were a lot more conservative.
My headcanon about the old alliance was actually that it was meant to rein in the Ancients. Even the Nox could see how bad it would be if a race that keeps making things like the Wraith, Replicators, Ori plagues, time travel, alternative universe travel, dakara superweapons and so on were to continue on without oversight. The Asgard were positively mundane and respectful in comparison.
This makes way more sense. The Lanteans had mishaps that could literally blow up a solar system by accident. The Asgard are show to have the technology to do that, but only if they want to. Also, the Lanteans didn’t care about the Asgard experimenting on humans either. Which fits in with the mad scientist vibe.
@@zhoufang996 I really like that idea. Especially since a fellow commentor brought up that the Lanteans said, prior to meeting the Wraith, that they encountered no civilization that were their equals. Kind of shows what they thought about their fellow alliance members.
@@thetrainhopper8992 Didn't they Pegasus Asgard mentoin that the only reason they where able to experiment on humans was because of the Wraith war otherwise the Lanteans might have stepped in ?
That doesn't sound like they didn't care more like they didn't have the resources to fight another powerful enemy.
@@sg-24 In fairness to the Lanteans even by now their ancient as is tech could still give the Asgard a run for their money i feel like.(The Drones that where stored under the ice on earth easily cracked the shields of ships that Asgard warship could not do anything against.)
Though we dont know enough of what projects the asgard al did. Like the Seed ships that where send out to different far away galaxy's did they do something similar or at that point where they more Goa'uld lvl tech when compared to the Lanteans.
I figured it’s more of a consequence of social evolution. Depending on the exact timeline since that’s its own kettle of fish. They never really gave us clear timelines. We know the Ancients left Earth sometime in the last 5 million years, but it was mentioned that Earth was give 100,000 years of Asgard records. One hundred thousand to 5 million years is a long time for cultures to evolve. It’s possible that the Nox were more willing to be involved in the affairs of the galaxy, but at some point decided not to. The galaxy could have been calm in between the Ancients leaving and the rise of the Goauld, so they may have become isolationists then. Since the Asgard have been around for somewhere in the neighborhood for 100,000 years, they wouldn’t have evolved as much socially and have gotten more attached to things then the average Nox. Because even if a Nox lives for a thousand years, a new generation will take over eventually. Which leads to change over time. The Asgard can’t do that anymore, at least in the shows timeline.
Very much, the Asgard made their choice to clone, for whatever reason, which made it impossible for them to be isolationist, they had to interact in the hopes of solving the replicative fading problem. The Nox definitely decided to work on themselves, and go to great lengths to not interact with less advanced species, seemingly humans sort of forced the issue, the Nox probably wouldn't even maintain relations the Tollans. Given that the ancients are basically the first instance of humans, it stands to reason that the ancients was the glue that held together the alliance, and when they ascended, the Nox, Asgard, and Furlings slowly went their separate ways.
The Last of the ancients left earth (for the last time) in the last 10,000 years. Atlantis city left millions of years ago. However, they eventually returned to earth 10,000 years ago (source: s1 ep15 before I sleep).
I think, we should take into account time, in all of this. Like both races weren't in stasis until SG-1 showed up. They are races with history and culture, that changes. I personally believe, when aliance was active, there was some differences between each group, but they could easily interact. Ancients were more scientists group, that wanted mostly research universe and science was their main focus (remember their lifestyle was described Spartan in way, in SGA). Nox were more connected with nature and letting life find way guys of group. Asgard seems to be more militaristic, but that could be too strong world. Maybe their civilization was more current earth like, that other groups (reason why they are so understanding). Furrlings are big unknown, but we know, they tried to create paradise, so maybe more socially focused, maybe philosophers or something. People who wants to create ideal society, not achieve immortality through cloning or ascension. Anyway, four races cooperate pretty well for some time, but times changes, things happen. Each group go their own way. Nox, who dislike violence starts isolate themselves, believing messing with younger races is bad and focus on themselves. What happened with Antic is known. Asgards chose opposite direction that Nox. They feel responsible for life in galaxy and try to look after it. With time, they become ideological opposites. One believe in not violence, no interference and high isolation. Asgards are interfering with life, how they believe it's best and actively fight against treats.( who knows, of there was less things to deal with, maybe they would fix their genetic defects etc.)
The ancients got engineering degrees and went to work for NASA, and the ESA
The asgard got engineering degrees and went to work for lockeed martin and Raytheon.
The nox got biology and other earth science degrees and went to work for NOAA and the forestry service.
the furlings dropped out their freshman year to go backpacking around europe and eat edibles in amsterdam.
@@The_Lone_Aesir lol
We just have to look at real alliance's. They are formed for a purpose and end usually after a certain time. Perhaps the time of the SG. anciant races alliance was served and ended as per our history.
There's also a possibility the Nox from the series are a splinter group from the Nox of the past, much like the Asgard from the Pegasus galaxy were different from the Asgard that made the alliance with Earth.
Like, on earth; we have a formal governmental system that is supposed to (theoretically) represent the interests of all people. But, there are cultures that exist outside of this formal structure. From the tribes of the Amazon to the nomads of Mongolia. If our formal government structure crumbled, these cultures would mostly continue on unchanged. The Nox SG1 encountered could be the Noxian equivalent of Mongian steppe herders, while the Nox that entered into the alliance with the Ancients were the Noxian formal government.
Uh, that’s actually a really interesting idea. Especially since the only Furling group we “saw” were just like that.
It makes me wonder if the Nox only adopted their extreme pacifism in response to the failures of the old alliance, too
“End life subscription “ I love how you got around the UA-cam filter
Sadly you kind of have to these days. Also I can’t take credit for that, it’s phrase I see a lot of UA-camrs use.
Another youtuber uses "kick their air addiction".
Took me a second to realize what you said. That one’s pretty clever.
7:50 "Peace through superior firepower." -TNG
Best way to keep peace with everyone is to be only one XD
Sounds a bit like the mantra of the Brotherhood of Nod
"The best defense is a good offense." - Mel the cook on Alice.
Oh, you mean when human iradiated their planet?
Oh, the nuclear catastrophe?
@@bobsterclause342 It's not a catastrophe if we do it on purpose :P
The Alliance was held together by the strongest faction, the faction that brought them together to begin with: The Ancients. When the Ancients left, the alliance fell apart.
NATO and the U.N. are disolved the minute the U.S. leaves them. This is just how things work.
I definitely think the Furlings were utterly obliterated by the Goa'uld. To understand why the Nox do not help with any of these problems is because from a philosophical stand point they repeatedly show the Nox value non-interfence. They are a pacifist society designed around peace and harmony. Contrary in nature to the Asgard who are to some degree expansionistic and imperialistic. The Ancients were the bridge between the four great races and once they left any semblance of that alliance vanished. Then each races further resolved themselves to their own ideals.
Hmm, if the Goa'uld wiped out the Furlings and the Nox didn't help that could really explain why the Asgard don't talk to them any more. Imagine if Russia nuked Canada, and then the UK was like, I think we will choose to not get involved. US, UK relations would probably go down real quick from there. But it doesn't seem likely that they would have able to do that. All the races in the alliance that we know of are hyper advanced, and according to the Asgard the only reason the Goa'uld have gotten to be as much of a threat as they are is because they were too busy w/ the replicators to go give them an ass-whooping. It's safe to say if they Goa'uld cant stand up to the severely depleted Asgard of the current era, they wouldn't have stood a chance in hell back in the Alliance days when they had even less resources and tech, and the Asgard had more, not to mention all the other alliance races as well.
My shower thought headcannon is the furlings ARE/were Goa'uld
They were more like the Tok'rah than modern day Goa'uld and lived with their hosts symbiotically. The symbiotes were compatible, and often frequented, having ancient hosts among others in the galaxy. Modern day Goa'uld are the result of the galactic life reboot where humans were given a 2nd evolution, and the furlings were too in the form of the Goa'uld. They were even placed on a planet that had the potential for another sapient species to help them get off the ground a bit quicker.
One of the main differences between the furling version and the Goa'uld version is the furling version wasnt immune to the Ori plague. This could either be explained by having had too many ancients as hosts altered their own DNA in a way that made them susceptible, or that it was a feature that was added to version 2.0. Hell it their whole healing schtick could have evolved as a result of repeated exposure to the UNAS who were known for their natural healing abilities.
this could explain why the nox were largely keen not interfering with the Goa'uld and why the asgard refrained from just stamping out their empire; even when their resources were less limited. Doing so would be basically wiping out their ancient ally all over again.
@@The_Lone_Aesiror the Unas being Furling descendants, which too would kind of tie in with your idea.
It seems more likely that they tried to ascend after the Ancients and failed. The one piece of technology we see from them is a teleporter leading to a moon with no weapons or technology similar to the ascension colony seen in Atlantis.
@MrDj232 yea this is another likely theory. Ascension has been proven to be difficult no matter how advanced your race is technologically or culturally. I could see them failing ultimately and dieing off a slow quiet death.
"Our philosophy does not allow us to hate you." "We abandoned hate long ago." "Ok so, we don't hate each other." "Yes."
The Asgard only had a small number of worlds they were protecting in this galaxy and they were not residents. They simply did not have much in common. However, all races were interested in maintaining good relations with the elder (and more powerful) race - the Ancients.
The Nox had no cloaking technology and can therefore not share it. It's mastery of mind and illusion according to Lya.
Except Apophis was able to copy it because he developed his own cloaking technology from his adventures on Nox homeworld. I think Lya was lying to the humans. another form of protection.
The Ancients made a lot of mistakes that became enemies to all life.
They're like antithesis of eachother, nature and spirituality vs science and engineered psuedo immortality.
Doesn't mean they couldn't be friends. Opposites attract. :-)
Great video, lots of interesting ideas and analysis! As for the Nox vs Asgard ideological/philosophical difference, I think the best description is that the Asgard are *Problem-Solvers* who see a problem and work to address, resolve and/or eliminate it in order to restore a fixed concept of order. The Nox by comparison are accommodators, who believe in coping with and accommodating changes in the world around them to maintain a fluid concept of co-existence.
As such I don't think there's dislike between the two but it would be very difficult for the two to cooperate on anything as they have large philosophical barriers they need to cross to even reach consensus on the nature of an event before they can even begin to work on actual solutions. As such, they would have good relations, but they wouldn't waste time trying to initiate negotiations or cooperative actions unless there was a really pressing need that justified the difficulties in doing so.
And yeah, I think there would be a "pain point" between the two on the issue of Asgard immortality via cloning... the Nox would see that as very un-natural and the fate of the Asgard as being brought upon themselves by refusing to embrace the natural world and accept death as inevitable and embrace life through reproduction until attaining sufficient enlightenment to become a larger and more persistent part of the cosmos through ascension (well maybe... I kind of wonder what the Nox opinion on ascension is exactly....)
Thank you for the comment. Really good look at the two. As for how the. Nox felt about accession I’ve seen other think that they would have strived for it, but unlike the Ancients who accelerated their the Nox would do so naturally.
Everything and everyone in perfect uniformity. Then you got space hippies. Yeah. I don't think they hung out
The Nox are incapable of hatred..
Gotta agree, the nox seems incapable of hating anyone. The asgard don't really seem like the race to hate someone because they refused to help, annoyed perhaps at worst😂
But kinda weird we see no indication or form of verification that there is communication between them, like just putting in a line in last episode of SG1 that the nox tried helping with the cloning problem aswell but failed like the asgard.
. You confuse ability with willingness and desire to curb through discipline. If they were incapable they would not worry about their young being exposed to greed and violence before gaining the enlightenment regarding their unnecessary and futile destruction.
Yup, if they threw in one line of Quark saying the Nox simply can’t heal the Asgard’s cloning problem then this whole theory falls apart in canon.
That being said, there does seem to be a philosophical difference with the Asgard and the other 3 races. The Asgard say it’s because they owe their life to the Tauri.
@@DeaPeaJay. We already know the Nox can't "heal" the Asgard.
The Asgard are not sick. The physical process of their cloning method creates progressively more and more flawed DNA.
In HEALING you can only restore the programming of ones existing genetic code. The restoration of the Asgard would take the power of creation.
They didn't have to say it out loud directly. We already had the problem explained and those of us who think deeply enough on the subject to care likely paid close enough attention in our biology and physics classes to see it.
Those who either did not start caring until AFTER those classes or have yet to TAKE them, have the same thing the rest of us do... the rest of humanity and it's writings through history to help overcome the missing, mislabeled, and counterfeit pieces in our fractured understanding.
.
@@BaobobMiller i confuse nothing, being exposed to greed and violence causes fear, pain and destruction. any advanced race would want to shield the young from such things and prevent them taking a path that leads to them. you don't have to hate something to know that it's not good and/or detrimental
Perhaps before the plague and in the early days of the alliance, the Nox were more flexible about fighting and how to fight. But the plague was proof to them that their most likely form of fighting (bio-warfare) couldn't be trusted.
"The only way to win is to not play."
The emergence of the Replicators could act as further proof to their beliefs.
Does anyone else think it would be funny if the Furlings ended up being lizard people?
@1:39 If I remember correctly, the only thing known for sure about the Furlings is that they fought alongside the Asgard against the Goa'uld before Ra's discovery of Earth, and they haven't been heard from since.
My personal theory is that they - as natives of the Milky Way where the Asgard were basically glorified tourists - bore the brunt of Ra's war effort. Back in those days, it's possible that the Goa'uld were much less warped and mentally degraded by prolonged use of the Sarcophagus device, meaning that they would have been much savvier, more dangerous opponents than they would be by the time the SGC was a going concern. If the Furlings were naturally conflict-averse beings with no particular killer instinct or martial leanings, then it's possible that a less advanced but far more bloody-minded and militarily capable enemy could defeat them.
So in the end, I think the Goa'uld exterminated them, or at least drove them to abandon the Milky Way. With the war in the Milky Way stuck in an effective stalemate due to the defeat of the Furlings and the rise of the Replicators in Ida Galaxy, the Asgard sued for peace despite their overwhelming technological and military superiority. Essentially, they couldn't spare the resources to prosecute a protracted conflict in another galaxy when a peer-level threat was attacking on all fronts much closer to home. Having both seemingly defeated the mighty Asgard/Furling Alliance, as well as finding a new world with a species that made for vastly superior hosts, Ra found his position more secure than ever before. Secure in the certainty of their unchallenged dominion over the Milky Way, the Goa'uld as a whole would settle into their new pattern of hedonism and degeneracy that would culminate in the vast-but-fragile empire of egomaniacal morons we saw in the show.
The knox do allow harm to come to others through inaction, whereas the asgard also do that, but a willing to intercede from time to time.
iirc the Asgard are usually written to have more excuses for why they aren't more involved. Like wasn't Thor the one and only Asgard assigned to a whole section of the galaxy while the rest were busy with the replicators.
The Nox really needed a bit more fleshing out, they always felt like a caricature of a hollywood pacifist rather than an actually thought out culture. The Nox have the ability to perfectly hide and resurrect from death, but then judge others who can't do that for defending themselves from aggressors.
@@thebigdork8030 Nail on the head. And the Nox aren't the only aliens that are kind of dropped due to the momentum of the story. For example, the fishman that wanted to know about 'Amer-o-ca' represented two aliens that helped fight the snake heads, but shown nothing about the shape of their larger society. Just a mind-probing lab off a beach.
Just not on their watch. As they saved Apophis right? 😇
@@RealSensationalBeing An lot of the season 1 to 5 storylines were dropped, sadly.
The Federation of Planets is an Earth concept the aliens do not share.
"the aliens" is an Earth concept the Federation of Planets does not share.
I think the cloning problem of the Asgard was ridiculous. Once DNA has been mapped they would have an unchanging blueprint.
The using clone genetic material to make another clone, then repeat the process with every following clone concept (copy of a copy) is also ridiculous. They already know the desired DNA sequence. Any DNA with errors could be repaired to match the original exactly. Since they don't procreate sexually, leaving it all to random chance of a mutation, genetic diversity doesn't even matter.
Honestly, I can't see the Nox or Asgard "hating" any species. I can see them simply deciding NOT to interact for various reasons. Such as the "Spirits" not needing to interact with anyone, or maybe the Tallarions seeing it not in their best interest, or possibly due to the "treaty with Go'uld" reducing the involvement of the Asgard in certain areas.
I just figured the Nox and Asgard stayed on "good terms" with each other, just not really involved due to different interests. With the Asgard going more "technology" for their cloning procedures and the Nox going more "nature based".
No, they don't hate each other. That's a heck of a stretch just because they don't talk. Nox keep to themselves, stay isolated, don't take sides, pacifists. The asgard play a role in the galaxy, they take sides, they'll shoot at enemies! They likely don't talk because they have vastly different views in their place in the galaxy, but I'd say likely have a mutual respect and just leave each other alone. Asgard may have asked them to get involved in the past and the Nox just flat out said no and just left it at that.
Id wager it was just a writing issue. It was probably getting difficult to reduce possible plot holes with everything on. Having a race of invisible physic beings AND a race of highly advanced in war would make for ALOT of plot holes that would need to be filled.
Ah yes the eternal enemy of lore, real world writing issues.
@@sg-24 I think one of my biggest issues with the series is that it focused too much on a threat that realistically should have been easily resolved way before current era with SG1. Thor's hammer was old, obviously due to the first one being stuck in here. Without even the need for the Nox, the Asgard could have modified humans or made some sort of virus to make humans immune to being hosts and then put up a Thors hammer and a defense satellite at each planet. We know they didn't care about interfering at that level, and it would have made each planet safe. Eventually, system lords would die out. or release the virus over a homeworld, let it spread for a bit before it activates and bam. Then SG-1 could have been multiple seasons of exploration instead. In the end although the show was fantastic, but a little more thought into that might have been cool.
@@BallisticTip I wish they made it so that the Asgard only recently, say in the last 50 to 100 years gain fast intergalactic travel. That before that each time it took decades for them to travel from their galaxy to Milky Way but their ships were so much more advance just a few of them could convince the Goa'uld to stay out of their way when they were in the galaxy and to maintain the treaty they agreed to. An there was always one or two in our galaxy acting a vanguard.
This would have then been a good explanation on why they could installed technology like Thor Hammer but not on every planet, they simply didn't have the numbers to maintain it all. Also why they didn't wage war against the Goa'uld, even through they could take the Goa'uld by surprise, there multi decade long supply lines would make it impossible to keep their forces in our galaxy supplied.
Unfortunately by the time they gain fast intergalactic travel their cloning problem took priority, an then they were hit with war with the replicators.
if the ori didnt create the plague then why did the teams prior exposure to the ancient plague protect them from the ori plague? because they were the only ones not to get sick when the ori infected that planet valla was playing god on
@theiathegondia7349 oh I'm not saying the Ori didn't create the plague, I was just bringing up a weird bit of lore from Worlds.
The Ori created a new plague based on the original one. It is even possible that the original plague was something that the Ancients had brought with them and that it had evolved similarly in the Ori galaxy as well.
Or Furlings went evil and Nox and Asgard needed to kill the species.
A great pain for the Nox leading them to become isolationists.
A further reason for the Asgard to protect the younger races, limiting their technology sharing.
I suspect the Nox's advancement was more spiritual than purely technological. They didn't have as much in common with the Asgard, who put all their chips on technology. I think maybe exchanging this knowledge helped the Ancients later ascend.
yeah the Nox could be partially ascended. Their resurrections power isn't tech but is their inherent power themselves, that why they need more than one person to do it.
Tywin Lannister once said “You don’t need to make formal alliances with people you trust”. We like to think of the Ancients, Asgard and Nox as inherently good and friendly. If that were true they wouldn’t need a formal alliance, they would just be friends.
That applies for friendship, but not objective efforts. When you need to coordinate on something tangible, formalization is a must.
@@becausebuzzbomb6133Tywin Lannister would disagree and so do I. You may need organization to accomplish something in most cases. But if what you are trying to accomplish is friendship, than it’s not really friendship. Take NATO. Do you need organization so that different armies from different countries can work together? Absolutely you do. Logistics wins wars and you can’t have logistics without organization. Do you need to set conditions on why and how you will help each other? Only if you don’t trust each other to begin with. In which case it’s not really friendship.
@@joen0411 Tywin might be correct with regard to individuals, but when you are dealing with multiple groups of individuals, it needs to be formalized. Especially if the goal is to promote friendship and peace. Not having things formalized is how you cause misunderstandings that lead to war.
@@LainK1978 there have been plenty of formalized treaties and agreements for thousands of years that still resulted in wars. They don’t avoid wars anymore than a pinky promise. The point of Tywins quote has nothing to do with individuals. I don’t have a written contract with my best friend that outlines our friendship. It applies to any organization like countries, in his case family houses and in SG1 different species. If the Asgard, Nox, Ancients were truly altruistic or whatever idealistic word you want to use to describe them. They wouldn’t need treaties to outline their friendship. The point of this video isn’t when, where and how the four species communicated with each other. Yes, that requires a certain level of organization. The point of the video is to ask, were they truly friends? My point and Tywin’s is that if they were friends they wouldn’t need to outline the terms of that relationship.
I personally believe the Nox were warmongers in the past and only later became pacifist. Their extreme pacifism seems to be the result of a great cultural trauma/guilt. Kinda similar the how the Nordic countries are very peaceful today that its hard to imagine they were decended from Vikings.
This.. Something most likely occurred where the nox went pacifist. Something cataclysmic that caused them to say never again. And the Asgard know this and is why they respect the nox for who they are now, and give them their space.
the simplest explanation is the writers didn't know how to deal with having so many aliens that were superior to the Goa'uld. In almost every other episode SG1 encounters an alien race that is capable of defeating the Goa'uld but chooses not to and has a non-interference policy. also, the Nox live ridiculously long compared to other alien races
Just one of those things with Science Fiction series. There are always holes.
The Asgard suffered from cloning duplication errors. I don't buy for a second that they don't completely understand how DNA works and could not fix anything functional in their DNA or even alter their species radically to survive different environments.
SG1 did some time traveling. Could the Asgard not time travel in some form? They would only need one trip into the past to setup a sleeper research colony to collect genetic samples from their entire history. They could even limit the knowledge of the research group so as not to affect the past. Collect samples. Go to sleep for a while. Collect more samples. Rinse. Repeat. They could even reveal themselves to themselves in the past but keep it a secret. We messed up some things evidently and need this data.... They could even get more samples from the original generation one clones and this time write the DNA sequence down. That is if they wanted to continue cloning. Evidently it stunted their development somewhat.
Just some interesting note I wanted to add. In the books the Tok’Ra had a plan to use time travel to solve their population issue, I don’t think it went done the way you talked about. But definitely a possibility for the Asgard to do.
Awful lot of supposition in this theory. Just because we never see them interact does not mean they didn't communicate. SG is focused on humanity's place in the galaxy, not the ancient established races. It could easily be that the Asgard reached out to the Nox for help with their genetic problem before humanity had even discovered fire, and the Nox are pacifists, they could quite easily have had a strict policy on sharing technology with races that were not. Similarly we have little idea of the capabilities of the Replicators or the cloaking technology, we don't even know if it is technology or some psychic ability. What this theory does expose though is just how little we know about the council races, something new SG will hopefully explore.
Yeah I’ll agree there’s a lot of supposition in this video due to lack of info. Which kind becomes more evident when people can’t agree when the alliance formed.
I kind of liked the SG Universe. "OMG! You killed Daniel! You Bastards!"
I am a big fan of this series, my feeling is that they exist on a level that really doesn’t translate directly into the same political arena as humans. Both were advanced beyond our understanding and ideological patterns of behavior
That an interesting point, though I feel that’s more true for the Nox than the Asgard.
The Nox piss me off. The thought that they are for not causing harm is bullshit when you look at the simple reality. The Gu'ald killed massive amounts of life and the Nox hid away like cowards. The Nox allowed the Gu uald to enter their planet and hunt and slaughtered and kidnap and torture rare endangered species while they hid like cowards. The entire race of the Nox hid from the Universe. The Ancients were dying of a plague and the Nox hid like cowards. The Asgard were also effected by that plague and the Nox hid like cowards. All planets of the Furlangs were extinct sense that plague hit and Nox hid like cowards. I have a realistic theory what if the Nox created the virus and then they hid away like cowards. Hell from what is known about the plague well the Nox are immune to it which kind of is weird when you realize all races and all species were effected except the Nox. Are the Nox actually allies or are they pure evil? The Nox hide in all ways but they pretend to not be enemies of anyone but lets look at reality while their supposed allies were dying they hid like cowards. Their allies asked for help and the Nox ignored the call. Why were the Nox never effected by that plague? Why did they have a cure when no one else could even figure out what the plague was? The plague hit so fast and so hard advanced species could not fight it but the Nox already had ways of not getting effect by it which means they had the cure the entire time. By having the cure or a blatant way to not get infected or effected in any way the Nox obviously knew exactly everything about the plague. Hell the plague hit so hard they didn't even have a chance to name the plague. The plague was so deadly that nothing could survive long enough to name it and yet the Nox were 100% unaffected. By the fact the plague spread across the entire galaxy as if it was about to travel in space itself yet if you think about the location of the home world of the Nox that is the direct center of where the plague spread from. The Nox created the plague which forced the Asgard to well live in clone bodies because in reality the Asgard had no more of their regular DNA left and in order for their species to survive the plague they downloaded themselves into computers in order to survive the plague that killed the Ancients and the Furlangs but the Nox were 100% unaffected. Hell its hinted that the Gu ald were created from the mutated DNA of the Furlangs themselves in order to survive the plague. To put it bluntly the Nox are the actual evil of the entire universe and instead of answering for their crimes the Nox hid their entire species in a sub dimension and made themselves un effected by the rest of the galaxy. Asgard lost the ability to keep breeding and were forced to clone themselves to survive, the ancients had to evolve into a higher form to survive, and the Furlangs were just gone but the Nox were unaffected completely. The Asgard most likely yes they hate the Nox. Even when mentioned the Asgard treat the existence of the Nox as something they don't want to know at all.
Or maybe, if they didn't hide, no one would've survived. Lya was hot. Go Moss People!!!
I think it was more that the two civilisations drifted apart. The Nox were isolationist, although they obviously took a liking to the Tollans, and the Asgard maintained a program of scientific exploration and fostering human cokony worlds throughout their war with the Goa'uld. I don't think there was any enmity, they just moved on when the Alliance ended ten thousand years ago.
@tompearce5418 complexly possible, though now I don't know what's sadder. Losing a friend because you had a fight, or the two drift away.
If we consider Nox as nature lovers, they may also be looking at asgards using cloning to extend their lives as complete heresy (breaking natural cycle of life)
The Nox and Asgard have some pretty fundamental differences that make it pretty much inevitable that they would approach issues differently. I think their alliance failed after the ancients disappeared and they each went their own way. The Asgard tried to step up to the role left by the ancients, but weren't quite successful and the Nox became rabid isolationist and seemed to have only made contact with the Tolan after they became a very advanced race on their own. The Nox were threatening to pull their support from earth on behalf of the Tolan not the Asgard.
Nox and Tolan seem to have form some sort of alliance. I wish we got to see more of that. Isolationism and may be the Tolan learning their lesson about helping younger races. It would have been interesting to see the two clash after the Tolan homeworld was destroy.
In my head canon the Asgard, Nox, and Furlings are descendants of human seedlings by the Ancients. This was millions of years before the plague that took out the Milky Way. Over time they evolved and changed. The Nox are more like Ancients with their healing abilities and are far along towards ascension. The Asgard meddled with their genetics and cloning. For the Furlings I always saw them as human like but somewhat different. Mainly I saw them as the ancestors of the Jaffa. Yes they said that the Jaffa were enslaved from people brought from earth but what if the original Jaffa were enslaved creators of the Gua’uld? Those that gave much of the technology to the Gua’uld. A proposed caretaker race that was evil. Some of the original Gua’uld got out during testing and took over the Unas then invaded the Furlings through taking over the scientists that studied them.
We don't know the nature of that alliance. But just like human society, I would not expect it to last forever. The ancients either ascended, or died. (or blended into human society) The nox apparently retreated back to their homeworld. (we never hear about them being anywhere else.) The asgard left the milkyway. And we know nothing at all about the furlings; perhaps they left, died out, or are on an unknown planet.
When you consider the very heavy investment in military technology that the ancients had as well as their investment in things like science culture in pacifistic projects like the Stargates. Them being a semi militaristic Middle ground between the knocks and the asgardians makes perfect sense.
The war may be the reason why the NOX developed their pacifism. Perhaps millions of years ago they were more like the Tollan. Advanced in weaponry and space travel tech yet not willing to interact with primitive people.
They took away futility from the war and when the ancients were gone, they turned pacifist and disappeared
That’s a cool idea, and one I can see happening.
IMO, feels to me like the Nox and the Asgard just had nothing in common on their own and went their separate ways without the other races to bring them together. Doesn't seem like either group would even be capable of hating the others, it's more like how people just never talk to people they knew back in high school ever again.
The Nox were probably just high all the time and the Asgard got tired of their nonsense. They're obviously a bunch of weed loving hippies.
That one Nox did lick something off a tree……
@@sg-24 a bunch of space koalas ^^
@@khatack A tad smarter, but still koalas :v
Thumbs up if you're a Furling!
I think hate is a strong word for those two races. The Nox didn't hate any race, but just valued life, and although the Asguard preferred a peaceful solution; they were always ready for a fight, but nothing indicates that they would actually hate each other, even if they didn't communicate anymore.
Ivth8nk the Asgard were just too proud as a while to ask for help on such a delicate matter.
They did say they don't like to talk about it with other races, so that could be it.
A couple of things I really disliked about Stargate:
1. How little the writers involved powerful alien allies
2. How poorly the Russians were treated, and how unrealistic international reaction and co-operation was written once other countries learned of the Stargate.
And one very personal to me.. How they ended the Asgard.. I will never forgive them for that and I am still salty lol
I mostly agree with your points. I think only the Asgard were given a good reason for not being more directly involved with most events.
For point two I think Stargate was very clean in how they handled international relations, though maybe that’s just because we are in the darkest timeline.
And yeah the end of the Asgard was a hard hit, but they did bring them back in Atlantis, as a whole group of Lokis. Which I will admit I kind of like, seeing a different side to them.
@@sg-24 Yeah, I agree the Asgard had a good reason, the Nox too. But it's a shame we don't see the Tollan or the Serrakin join the fight against the Goa'uld in some way. It would have been pretty cool to see their warships/soldiars with their more advanced technology in combat, or at least hear about it. It always felt like us earthlings were the only planetary force fighting the big bad Goa'uld.
The other countries had reasonable demands imo, wanting the gate in neutral territory and teams assembled from multiple countries going through the gate and sharing technology... I disliked how the show used Thor to pretty much settle any and all future arguments in favour of the US keeping exclusive and all control over the gate and technology recieved from it, acting as the sole representatives of Earth. The SGC and its leadership had such a gross attitude toward the idea that the other nations should have a say in things that absolutely effect them all. There's a lot of episodes where they try to pass on a morally positive message, but that episode spat in the face of democratic values which is held so highly in the US and it was all portrayed as being a good thing. It's not something I noticed as a kid, but re-watching it as an adult, it's kind of unsettling.
Totally agree, it was good to see them back in Atlantis and that having that more moral grey side to them, I wish we could have seen more of them.
I admit, I was also really hoping to see an Ha'tak or two go against a wraith hive when those two were trying to reach earth haha
The Knox were completely different than what they are now after all, the alliance was more than 7 million years ago a lot can change in 7 million years
5:31 No hatred. Rather a profound divergence of aspirations and political choices.
I think if the Nox disapprove of the Asgard's cloning, it's probably more because using clones replaced natural reproduction than the life extension itself.
The Nox could be immortal, but they still have children. There are no new Asgard, just the same old ones, repeated.
It sounded like the alliance was trying to balance different elements to achieve a more... diverse decision making. Could be with 2 balancing forces gone, the alliance lost its main purpose.
Especially with the 2 remaining being so different.
I also don't think there was hate, or that the Nox refused to help. The Asgard - regardless how cool they are - were quite arrogant, even when they asked SG 1 to help, it was more like asking as an afterthought "Oh, we're doing this, unless you have something better". The Nox probably felt that as well, and decided to respect the adult race to decide their own fate.
I think the Nox were isolationist. And the Alliance dissolved with the replicator threat to the Asguard the growing G'ould threat in the milky way and and the Alterans had the virus. The virus also probably wiped out the Furlings. Before this, the 4 probibly did work together and since there wasn't conflict the Nox where OK with being in the Aliance.
So I think it is fairly clear in the episode that RA /gaould had never knew or been to Heliopolis.
I think the “big wedge “ was philosophical the nox just has a unique view on the universe where as the Asgard interpretation of the universe is more hands on.
Here is my thoughts on the alliance of four races is when you say alliance that normally means military or defensive, what/who were these heavyweights allied against ❓there is a suggestive feeling that there was some big conflict that was there maybe the ori or something but definitely someone there that these races felt that they needed to create an alliance.
I think that that the alliance of the 4 great races is just them coming together to share knowledge.
never understood the cloning problem. any race that advanced would surly have multiple backups in many different star systems of their genome repository at every stage of development.
The Asgard effd up with the cloning crap. And eventually killed themselves. The nox retreated behind their technology and piety and mostly became useless. The ancients also became a useless entity. So everyone became useless in one way or another.
I just want to suggest that the Nox pacificism and full integration with nature could be the result of the perceived failure of being more willing to be violent in the service of the earlier alliance.
Here are my thoughts on it.
Every, friendly, advanced race all seem to have some form of non intervention policy when it comes to those technologically less advanced.
The tolan indirectly caused the destruction of an entire planet, and nearly caused their people to go extinct. So they dont give tech to anyone, period.
The ascended ancients saw younger races getting wiped out through their interventions; which is one of the reasons for policing each other.
The asgard seem to be big on letting people advance at their own pace. Which is why they set up sanctuaries to protect primitives from hostile space faring species, but otherwise leave them alone until they are advanced enough to have a seat at the table. Also they are against giving tech that could be used against themselves.
The Nox may have elected to just remove themselves from the galactic equation to prevent their presence from affecting those less advanced. It is entirely possible that they were less pacifistic and more interventionalist in the past but caused a degree of harm that resulted in them taking a step back.
The Asgard and the nox probably do not dislike each other, but instead view the other's approach less as a "right vs. wrong" and more of a "not right for me" kind of way.
It's been a while since I watched the early episodes of the show, but even after their first encounter with the Tau'ri, future interactions were likely interpreted positively by the Nox. After all, Daniel Jackson enabled the Tollans to ask the Nox for aid in the first place, even when the NID pressured the SGC to turn the Tollans over to them. And the Nox were also willing to mediate in the Skaara v. Klorel trial.
Even as for the pacifism, I don't think it's that absolute - Lya was perfectly willing to hide a Tollan Ion Cannon, as long as she didn't have to fire it herself. The Nox have the means to avoid conflict, but they don't appear to expect others to not defend themselves if threatened. What bothered them in their first appearance was O'Neill's insistence on trying to kill Apophis in their front yard.
That’s a fair counter point in defense of the Nox, though Lya’s thing was very close to breaking their rules. And if I remember right she admitted that in the show.
I think Lya being a young Nox, was slowly being corrupted by SG1
I'm glad I didn't comment before the end of the video. Cloning was the main thing that popped into my head. It's worth noting that each of the three we know enough about had pursued longevity: Ancients ascended, Asgard cloned and copied over their minds (Alerted Carbon much?), and the Nox were able to revive the recently dead on top of obviously having insanely long lifespans. It's also worth noting that each of them had a greater mastery of gate tech: Ancients invented them while both the Nox and Asgard could activate them remotely without generating the splash, which is too much of a coincidence for there to not be forethought to that lore. The Furlings had portal tech as well separate from the typical gate network. How did the Furlings extend their lives? Did they face a severe cataclysm that mirrored the plague and caused the others to seek longevity/immortality? Is that why they didn't interact more? Was it out of self-preservation and desperation that drove a wedge between them by pursuing it in their own district and non-complimentary ways? It also just occurred to me that maybe healing wasn't tech the Nox developed and maybe it was a facet of their advanced evolution in pursuit of the Ancients. I wonder if the Nox are so limited in their population because of their pursuit of Ascension and little need of future generations with their extended lives.
Ok. Rant over.
How did I not stumble on this channel years ago?
Normally I only subscribe after watching 3 videos from a channel, but I'm a lifelong Stargate fan and there are _precious_ few channels dedicated to it. Subscribed, instantly.
Oh thank you, I appreciate that. As for why, I’m not sure. The mysteries of YT.
@@sg-24 All I know is that comments help this process and, as such, I do try to drop a comment on most of the videos I watch and enjoy, if possible.
Thank you then. It does help.
I never really thought about it before, but I wouldn't think of the Asgard as militaristic. Granted, they weren't above fighting back, but the Ancients weren't above that either. In fact, I'd consider the Ancients to be more militaristic than the Asgard. Regardless, I need a great Stargate themed FPS. I doubt you'd know anything about it, but there was a whole mapset created for the original Unreal that was Stargate themed and while it didn't work perfectly, it was still a lot of fun. Unfortunately for me, I couldn't speak whatever language the script was written in, so I couldn't really get the story, but they did model a staff weapon that you could use.
Sadly I haven’t heard about the one you are talking about. But there are plenty of SG mods out there, as well as SG Resistance, which does have a player base that tries to meet every Sat.
They definitely have different ways of doing things but I don't think they hate each other. Neither of them is a hateful race. The Nox just prefer to stay hidden & isolationist & the Asgard respect their wishes.
I think this "Alliance" was most likely -way for Ancients to create certain stabiity unless these powerful races decided to ah...confront each other. Imagine, how Nox and Asgard looked at height of their respective power. And yeah - Nox went 'noble savage', natural, pacifistic, philosophical route; Asgard - high tech, militaristic, pragmatic. I'd say that MAYBE overt pacifism of Nox was resutl of them overdoing violence against somebody at some, to level that e.g. forced Ancients to intervene and send nox on way of attonement.
the Nox seem to not do interact that much anyone that much anyway
At least not actively, no.
Irreconcilable differences might be a better term. Their lifestyle choices would have made for little intersection.
Between the Asgard and the Nox. I think the Asgard are actually a noble race. The Nox are just do nothing cowards.
If you think that the Nox are cowards, then you should think that the Asgard are egotists and narcissists, not exactly noble.
Cowards act or don't act out of fear. The behavior of the Nox has nothing to do with fear. The Asgard cloning and mind transfer however does all come from a place of fear.
Egotists look down on others and believe that others cannot survive without them. Narcissists have to have it be about them and take whatever means to keep themselves safe.
@@LainK1978 The Nox are cowards they don't do anything at all to help the people of the Galaxy who are under brutal oppression by the Goa'uld. Just like every other group or organization that uses self righteous pacifism to turn a blind eye to evil. There were plenty of people around the world during the early 20th Century that did the same when Hitler, Stalin and Mao were doing very evil things. They all used the Nox's talking points. And those people are not looked at fondly today and for good reason. At least the Asgard is actually doing something.
The Asgard are repelled by the Nox lack of personal hygiene.
Embrace your natural bodly functions.
@@DKNguyen3.1415 The Asgard have evolved beyond bodily functions. The Nox look like they may have fleas.
@@barneyfyfe8313 I saw your partial comment in the notifications and thought you were going to say the asgard have evolved beyond their need for asses
@@DKNguyen3.1415 Thor would not approve of such crass language... even from O'Neill.
@@barneyfyfe8313 but Hermiod might
I think that either the Nox or Asgard wiped out the Furlings (why? Who knows!). The Ancients were involved but got nobbled by the Plague (created by the Furlings to get them off the board? Could this be the reason why the Nox or Asgard turned on them?). The Ancients left due to their collapse and whichever turned on the Furlings was despised by the other. Honestly I think the Nox took out the Furlings and have taken on pacificism as a culture wide guilt. When the Go'auld rose, the Asgard stood against them but the Nox refused and warned against this, leading to the rife between the two. Well, it's a theory!
That’s definitely a wild theory, an interesting one I will say.
Nice video. I always figured the Goa'uld could have been one of the Asgard's embarrassing mistake. The Asgard were looking for a way for a way to be immortal without using cloning. The longevity of the parasitic Goa'uld combined with the "sarcophagus" made the Goa'uld immortal. The Goa'uld queen could selectively imprint their memories on their children.
All this would make the Asgard interested in researching and uplifting the Goa'uld as a potential stepping stone for their own immortality.
Now, it is assumed that the "sarcophagus" tech was made by the Ancients. But, no "sarcophagus" was shown in Ancient cities and ships. It is possible while part of the "sarcophagus" was based on Ancient tech, it is also likely it was based on Asgard tech, and maybe even some Nox tech.
The Goa'uld could have rebelled against the Asgard, with the Asgard treating the Goa'uld like rebellious children. With the Nox washing their hands of the whole situation.
Now that would be an interesting twist.
@@sg-24 While no real proof, this would explain why the Asgard always sidestepped the question of why they never dealt with the Goa'uld.
Except for the impowered Anubus, every time the Asgard and Goa'uld fought, the Asgard curbstomped the Goa'uld.
@@WilliamAGould I would say the fact that they could always easily curbstomp them is why they never took any further action.
I have seen that/those series, but as I remember the hate is a concept that the Nox does not understand anymore and Asgards have a similar view in a different reason.
I’d argue the Nox do have some understand of hate, as the Nox dad confronted O’Neill about him teach his son “poisonus ideas”, but it wouldn’t be how we feel/see hate.
@@sg-24 They are kind of a race who can reached the level of the next step to follow the ancients, but they dont have the ambition to do that. They are there they want to be there. Sadly we had just a glimpse of their life. As I remember they have floating cities, so maybe the simple nature loving life is just a choices of many.
The Asgard are capable of fully understanding and appreciating the Nox position.
They were evolved to the point where they didn't even bother asking for help.
And yet they had to ask people dumber than them for help in dealing with the Replicators.
@@sg-24 I just meant they wouldn't bother asking the Nox, because is it become an intellectual certainty what their answer would be.
Oh I see what you mean. Yeah that makes sense.
@@sg-24 I am prone to master of the obvious answers, so I never mind a double checking. :-)
6:12 and this answers your video question. The Nox are not capable of hate, or at least not like humanity is.
Just discovered your channel via a random UA-cam suggestion. Really enjoyed the video, talked about stuff that I had not even known and made me think. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for watching, should be able to get some more videos out soon.
I would think of something like: The Nox could have helped the Asgards but both sides wouldn't be pleased with that. The Nox would have created a new archetype that wouldn't be the old Form the Asgard had, probably even with a physiology that was not 100% compatible with their "known" motor function. The Asgards wouldn't want something that isn't 100% the best as a Solution, as seen when Carter simply blew up the most advanced ship they had, to prove a point. (Spoilers: Thor didn't like it, but wouldn't admit it.)
So I am guessing, the situation would be something like this:
Nox "Here is the Prototype, but you would need to ease into it over a few iterations."
Asgard: "This would be counterproductive, since we would need to make clones, changing our DNA with each step."
Nox: "We will not help you with that."
Asgard: "This is an Expected Outcome."
Or in other words: "Here you go." "I can't fit in that!?!" "Your problem" "Fine, doing it myself..."
From what I saw in SG the Asgards were always logical and absolute. They never thought that the outcome justified the risk or sacrifices. This they had to learn again with the help of the Humans.
While the Nox were absolute pacifists, and with their technologies they pulled it off.
I don't think that they hate each other. It's more of a mutual respect and rivalry. Asgards go for purpose technologies while Nox go for defense and sustainability.
Both don't see why the other would bother with that. But also are intrigued by how far the other has made it that way.
It seems to me that if your looking for who might have held the aliance together, maybe it was the Furlings. Whatever happened to them, if they were what held the aliance together, when they were gone, it would make sense the alliance fell apart. Maybe it was the Nox that were responsible by accident and thats why they are isolationist pacifists now. An interesting thing to notice is, the Nox, the Ancients and the Asgard all are more or less in favor of a doctrine of interference. The Asgard simply less so than the others. (In that they will intervene in some cases). Maybe the Furling were the driving force behind the aliance and perhaps a policy of direct action, and thst lead to didaster and ultimately their own downfall and the other races policies are a resoonse to that.
Perhaps the reason for the Nox not ascending is the same reason they dont interact with the Asgard. Perhaps they see both as engaging in blind progress without sufficent concern for the consequences. In addition to the problems the ancients created when they were mortal, their ascention to led to the Ori and Anubis and who knows what else. The Asgard have destroyed their own genome and made the replicators (which were pretty much gone) into a significant threat to the galaxy and provably cause a kot more fires that they forunatly (hopefully) managed to put out. So the Nox just stay out of the way, and live their lives.
Personally i like to think the Old alliance was one of extremes. Each race suffering from major flaws. The Humans having to learn from those mistakes/flaws to become better than what came before them.
Nox -> Extreme pacifism
Ancients -> mad scientist that will accidentally blow up solar systems.
Asgard -> Being so scared of death, you doom your whole race to prevent it.
Furlings -> Being so cudly they got turned into pets (we dunno)
I think the alliance worked because they balanced each other out, once it fractured, each race was doomed.
It seems more likely to me that there was just respectful distance between the two. Let's suppose two hypothetical people. They're friendly enough with each other, but one is a vegetarian, the other loves meat. The Meat Guy is probably not going to invite Veggie Guy to a barbecue, and Veggie Guy has learned that Meat Guy isn't going to give up steaks and bacon. This means, in an ideal world, that they're probably going to have limited interactions. That's the vibe I got from them.
Also, while the Nox did obviously use technology to build their flying city, they also appeared to use the same sort of powers that led to ascension. Lya didn't have any visible tech when she hid the ion cannon, she just did it. The Nox seem to be a compromise between the Ancients and Asgard. Psychic Powers + Physical Science.
And here I thought the ancients left for Pegasus, they effed up there with the Wraith and Replicators and ran back to Milky Way where they died to the plague and to counter that they ascended.
Well there has been some debate about that in the comments, which I will talk about at a later date.0
Nox: Let help the Asgard against the Replicators. Here is cloaking tech.
Asgard: Thanks
Replicators: Sniffs out the tech, has lunch.
Now we have invisible replicators.
No thanks!
Oh God, what have I done!
It could have been that the knox and furllings actually fought the goa'uld initially but got nearly or wiped out, so they retreated into hiding. The asgard on the other hand being from another galaxy intervened but much later but couldn't be wiped out the goa'uld or be wiped out
That is an interesting idea
I think a more interesting point would be if the Nox had at one point been so militaristic that it caused some sort of cultural trauma to turn them pacifist, like post WWII Japan. Would also explain why the Asgard would choose not to press them into anything, no need to pick at scabs.
I'm pretty certain the Nox didn't help the Asgard because 1) the Asgard reside in a completely different galaxy, and 2) they probably didn't ask them for help. It's very likely as simple as that.
I mean given how powerful the Nox are and the fact the Asgard do have stargates in their galaxy a Nox could journey there.
@sg-24 they're some problems here. For one, the Nox had access to the stargates, sure. That didn't mean they had the means to travel to Ida. There's no guarantee that they even had the address for intergalactic travel, but considering dialing a gate over four million light years away requires an utterly insane amount of power, like a zero point module, with their aversion to non-natural technology, they simply might not have had the power to travel that far. And when the Asgard abandoned the Ida galaxy in favor of Othala, which had no stargates, that would have isolated them further. And, again, the Asgard likely never asked them for help.
But most importantly, even if the Asgard had thought to ask for help, by the time they knew they were in generic trouble, they were balls-deep in a war with the Replicators. That's a foe the pacifistic Nox would have been completely at the mercy of. It's just as likely that the Asgard were keeping them isolated from their relentless foe, or that the Nox just didn't want none of that smoke.
The Nox pissed me off so bad. Having the technology to prevent genocide but choosing to stand by and do nothing makes them just as responsible. I know they were pacifist but they could have shared defensive tech like that amazing cloaking tech or shared their medical abilities/techniques. But the Nox would not do anything to help. What good is having the ability to help and choosing not to help? Seems selfish to me. The Nox assumed everyone will become pacifist like them but they are 100% wrong!
So I will play devils advocate since many have argued that the Nox would not share tech like that to younger races (the Asgard had a similar rule). But I do agree about their belief that they thought everyone would become like them.
My guess is that by the time the Asgard were willing to ask for help it was too late for even the Nox to help. if we look at the war with the replicators they were on the verge of total extinction before they were willing ask for help. the Asgard have a bad habit of not asking for help until the last second.
Do they? I maybe I’m miss remember what after they felt Earth was a good ally they seemed to come to them a lot to help them solve their problems.
@@sg-24 by the time the Asgard were willing to start asking for another race for help they were on the verge of getting wiped out. what may have happened with their Genome is that they just waited too long to ask for Help. This would mean that the Nox could not help forcing the Asgard to use Cloning. As for why the Nox did not help fix the issue with the clone bodies? well they likely would not do anything as clones are not natural. sp the Asgard basically backed them selfs into a corner over pride.
But thats just my theory.
It’s a good theory
I'm not sure there was any way the Nox could have helped the Asgard. Nox didn't appear to have any medicine aside from their ritual in which they brought the recently dead back to life. They wouldn't have been any use in the various fronts the Asgard had as they were pacifists. I think the sides rrespected eachothers positions and would have been unwilling to ask one to get involved in any action that would have been against their moral position as they understood it. The Asgard would therefore be unlikely to ask the Nox to fight, Perhaps they approached the Nox about their cloning problem early on, ha they been aware the secretive Nox were still in existence. The Nox planet might not be their original homeworld.
i dont think they hated each other more had a uneasy co-operative centered around the other two races, both acknowledging the advanced technological nature of each other but disliking the culture design the other enforces among their people, i also beleive the asguard did go to the nox for help with the genetic problem but the nox might have put a condition they didnt like on their help so the asguard said f-it i'll fix it myself.
On the sharing potential cloaking technology;
Asgard's problem fighting the replicators was their strategy of sending their newest/best technology, which ended up with them losing said technology to replicators, and making them stronger...
(This is why they came to asks help from SG-1 to come up with less sophisticated strategy, since those had been proven more effective)
Would you want to give cloaking technology to someone with clear tendency of losing their technology to dangerous enemy?
I would argue it would give them an element of surprise over their enemies. However, given the Asgard were losing because they kept throwing more advanced tech at the Replicators…. Yeah they don’t seem to be the best strategists.
It’s a good point I looked over.
7:52 you had the PERFECT opportunity to say "PEACE THROUGH POWER!" and ya blew it.
I have never heard of the phrase before. But I really wish I had because that would have been perfect.
@@sg-24 Boy have you missed out on a GREAT fuckin' game franchise. ua-cam.com/video/k8H5DXkGgvw/v-deo.html
The ancients were the glue that held the alliance together. Each race saw enough of themselves in the ancients to form the alliance. The ancients learned from each of the races. Ancient ships are awfully similiar to the Asgard. The ZPM looks like Furling tech. Ascension seems like something the Nox would do.
Yes. The Knox would be violently repelled by the Asgard response to the invasion of Thor’s planet. They killed everyone, both Jaffa, and ga’old alike. (See Thor’s Chariot).
Did they kill them? I always assumed it was some kind of teleport thing
@@sg-24 Since Thor’s hammer was absolutely lethal to singular Ga’uld , I assume that rampaging Jaffa (who would die when their infant larva were killed) and the leader Ga’uld would die as well. Further the Asgard transporter beam has a much different sound and behavior than these beams which seemed to disintegrate both ships, equipment and men. Just my 0.02$.
Maybe the reason the Nox are extreme pacifist is because they are responsible for the destruction of the Furlings thru some technological means. Feeling regret over their action they have forsaken violence and most technology. Since the Asgard still embrace technology, they do not converse with them in fear of reverting back to their old ways. Also has anyone considered the Gadmeer may actually be the Furlings?
@@scottblankenbeckler5828 The brimstone lizards? Good idea.
Apart from maybe the Ashen I doubt the Nox are even capable of dislike as an emotion except against violence. The Asghard do have emotions but those are very subtle or at least appear as such considering the Asgard barely have any facial features. The Asgard have one set of beliefs that are opposite to the Nox dito.
I believe the Nox may have been more "active" but at some point decided on withdrawing to their homeworld and into isolation.
The Ancients keep pissing me off with a LOT of what they did even AFTER their cowardly ascension - Anyone remember how they helped Anubis?!?
Well it was more that one Ancient helped him ascend. Then the rest decided to punish that one by letting Anubis do a lot of bad things.
@@sg-24 Indeed Oma Desala did mess up by helping him but then tried to fix her mistake THAT was when those other ornery bastards decided on giving Anubis Juuuust enough to mess up several human civilization chief among them Tollan which was destroyed and all just to show Oma the "error of her ways" until she sacrificed herself by simply eternally fighting the little shit.
Pity that they only had that one "Ascended killing" weapon - They could have saved those of Oma's group like Morgan Le Fay (Because she is hot) and then fired the weapon off getting rid of a lot of ascended dead weight as well as the Ori.
very interesting take, would love to here Baron destructo's point of view on this.
You can never let your heroes be too strong, or the story is over too quickly.