What Was Stargate's Original Canon?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- #stargate #stargatesg1
Have you ever wondered about what Stargate's history and lore was before SG-1? Well come join me as I look into the books that told Stargate's story before SG-1.
Disclaimer I make no claim over any music or clips used.
I find it interesting that ultimately both cannons end up going over similar themes as the story goes forward. You can sort of see how the original idea of the predecessors ends up branching out as the Goa'uld and the Ancients.
Im a bit surprised that a nunber of plots from this have been brought into the SG-1 show alien weapon system like the ancient weapon system in Antarctica and Hathor being put on ice for millennia
@thestanleys3657 it is interesting how many there are. I have to assume the writers read some of the books.
While this version of canon was interesting, def love the SG-1/SGA/SGU canon best. However, I’m fully prepared and 100% confident that the Setim are the Furlings. No, you can’t change my mind 😂
Challenge accepted.
@@sg-24 ...well been waiting for the video to explain why or why not :)
Im curious now.
@heathb4319 I know, it’s something I really want to do. But right now things aren’t good in my personal life to let me work on making videos
@@sg-24...all good brother. Just messing with you a little is all.
Take care of yourself first for sure.
@healthb4319 you’re good. Your comment actually got me to pen to paper (not literally) about some of my thoughts on the idea.
Yup. You're right! I recently saw an interview on Gateworld with Dean Devlin and he had a completely different plan. The seven Chevron address to Abydos was the first movie, an eighth Chevron one to another galaxy, and the third movie was the nine Chevron address to yet a third galaxy. It was a trilogy movie scaled blockbuster plan and would have probably been close to the novel trilogy. It never got done because MGM and Showtime had a great relationship with success of other shows they did together and of course the fact that SG1 was so good and popular that it survived the souring of that relationship.
I read the first two novels but got busy doing culinary school and never got around to the third. So, thank you sir!
The types of drama are simply different in books, movies, TV shows and comics. That's why some stuff doesn't work when they try to do the same story in all forms. And books are better than movies despite being harder to consume. However Video games are more fun than either, comics and cartoons allow more creativity, and TV shows get the story to more people while not really being as good as any other form of media. That being said, I think SG-1 was nearly perfect for sci-fi TV and I only have one beef with it. And I'm not really complaining but they effed up. Sam Carter's first date with Pete has her saying to someone that there's no Zoo in Colorado Springs. While it's true there's no place called the Colorado Springs Zoo, there is one on Cheyenne Mountain. Where they moved the Stargate to. Cheyenne Mountain Complex is literally a few hundred feet from the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo. I live here, in the Springs, I can see both with binoculars from the roof of my house!
Wtf! How badly can you fuck up the EARTH.
Ugh. Yeah. Children of the Gods is a reboot because the second novel was out before the show. I think the novel could have made a great PS1 or XBOX game spawning sequels and different game genres. First a roleplay game, a fighting game, a kiddie style platform, a SimCity style government simulator game ( whatever). If the movie had been made twenty years earlier, it could have been popular during the 70s comic book comeback.
I'm into the cat people you talked about. An underutilized type of sapient lifeform in science fiction. Star Trek has Catians and Kzinti but we barely see them. Wing Commander had Kilrathi, Twilight Imperium had sapient felines but they were hard to play in an already hard board game. Not too many others.
Ooh, could the Furlings have been sapient felines in SG-1?
I think people have been saying the wanted the fox like aliens to be the Furlings, but I’m more for the cat people. Though SG kind of already has that. Check out my Sekment video.
I always say that Stargate was a great movie and (grew into) an excellent television series. And as much as I absolutely loved it, I *don’t* want more of it. I don’t want to be sold the same stories I enjoyed decades ago. Nine-tenths of the fun of science fiction is new ideas or even old ideas with new twists on them.
Oddly enough that is not the first time I have heard that point of view, and honestly I get it. I do see expectations to this that make me hopeful, but then I look at the rest of the current media landscape and agree with the idea of no more SG.
Read Stargate Rebellion, Retaliation, Retribution, Reconnaissance, and Resistance. Its not exactly what would have happened but Bill McCay had written those books and he put it together with Dean Devlin's blessing and even used production notes from the original movie.
I'm not big on serialized TV shows as they are doing them right now, the way that SG-1 and older Star Trek shows was much more enjoyable, which is why Lower Decks is so beloved and why the Orville was also a hit.
True, I just finished Star Trek Progeny, and it was done in that older style. But from what I’ve been told part of the issue is how shows are air today, ie on streaming platforms. They just get less money than being prime air time. Which means less money to make more episodes, so they tended to focus on more serialized stuff.
@@sg-24 ST Prodigy was phenomenal, I didn't know I needed it until I watched it. I have to say animated shows for these kinds of projects, like a continuation of Stargate TV universe, might be the way to go. I watched the animated B5 movie that came out not long ago and I really liked it.
We got good adult animated shows right now that would not be as great as they are if they were done live action, mainly because of the problem you mention. Having an overall story arc but making each episode self contained is easier I think when animated.
The other thing is that streaming services are not really taking advantage of the fact its something streamed. They do not need to constrain their episodes to the runtime that regular TV shows used to have.
They could run an episode for 50 minutes, another for 45 and yet another for 1hr20m if they wished, whatever the story called for.
As it stand each series is being done 8 episodes at a time, with a runtime comparable to what we used to call mini series, or just 4 movies. Yet they pretend to call them series and sometimes stretch stuff and add things to pad individual episodes that end up making it boring.
I remember watching the first season of Progeny a while ago and while it was fine I didn’t see it as that big, then I saw the next season on Netflix and they just swung it out of the park. I really hope it gets a third season. I also agree with you just said.
@@sg-24 First season yeah it was finding its footing, not bad but better than the live action, then as you said they hit it off to orbit.
I tend to like the show better if for nothing else, the characters are more likeable. I always thought it would be cool if Russell and spader...or similar stand-ins had cameoed in the sg1 episode with all the parallel teams coming to our world. I wouldn't mind an animated version of this continuity tbh.
I would elaborate that while Stargate SG-1 is a reboot of the original movie…it wasn’t scrapping 10+yrs of content that was meticulously written.
That’s a fair point.
And I thought Earth Gov was a dick in SG-1, but that was nothing compared to how they are in the books.
I was a bit of a fan of the military command in SG-1, I read the books and in that version they are ashats. I much prefer the SG-1 stuff, its more like what I would want my peeps to behave like, you know the good guys.
Do you think the earth gov. is onland national government, underground military authority, Terran civilization government, Antarctic galactic council government, or the other government?
@linz8291 yes
I am fascinated by the cannon written in the books. I would love to see this storyline brought the screen (big or small).
Cat people who looks like various house cats (at least for their heads) as the Furlings
I am in favor of a reboot. I saw the original Stargate when I was little. I was a big nerd at the time. I would read the ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead. It had the hieroglyphs, the phonetics in the latin alphabet, and then the translation. One word that popped up a lot was "neteru." When it showed up in the film was when I knew they were speaking a reconstruction of ancient Egyptian.
So Stargate did something amazing for me then. It brought an ancient culture to life for me. Not just through language but also the sets, costumes, and general aesthetic. I fell in love. Then I found out about SG1.
SG1 took what was magical and special to me, historical accuracy in portraying an ancient culture, and threw it in the trash. Now I don't hate it but personally that aspect was a let down but I understand they were going for different things and are different mediums. But ffs is bleach blonde spikey hair, a fumanchu mustache, a twisted neckring painted gold, maile, and bright plaid really that hard to do for a celtic character like Camulus? They made him a generic leather guy.
Anyways there are really great aspects about both the film and show so uhhh... what if we merged the best of both worlds. I remember having heard that the creators of the film had wanted to do a trilogy and that the second would be Mayan or Aztecs (I forget which) so I was suprised you didnt bring that up at all. Imagine if we had a Stargate film, and even tv, series that blended the best of both Stargates. It could even take world building and plot aspects of SG1 but make it more cohesive, foreshadowed, and polished. While making us feel as if we really went somewhere else.
While I can understand people not wanting it to be rebooted... its been ages. Universe was strangled by the fandom. When Origins was made to gauge interest there wasn't enough. I think a film reboot could do the franchise some good. I sometimes wonder if that's the only real hope.
I actually agree on the culture thing. While I love SG I always felt they never really utilized the myths and cultures they were talking about to their fullest.
I never heard about the mezoamerican idea for SG movies, but now I really wish we had them.
The thing is while there are things they glossed over (just like they did with many ideas introduced in the series), they still acknowledged that the movie more or less happened and tried to explain many of the differences (Ra was lying about being the only god, etc.). In Continuum Mitchell even mentions he's uncertain about what date the program started ("1997, 1994, I don't remember the exact year").
That is true and I think what makes a lot of people forgive SG-1 when it comes to retcons. They tried to at least acknowledge those elements in some way.
Don’t reboot it, finish universe first
I think that if they do a reboot, they should consider doing two:
A) A live action reboot based on the novels/graphic novels.
B) An animated soft reboot in the same flavor as Space Battleship Yamato/Star Blazers 2199-2205.
The latter would allow the retelling of a lot of SG1 and Atlantis's stories, but perhaps with a lot more different kinds of vehicles and weapons, and the ramifications of the changes in strategy in response has some interesting story potential too. And also a chance to redesign the existing vehicles.
Why does the Prometheus look like a flying brick? It should be smoothed out, and the proportions change, but still keep the same overall configuration, and maybe have some battleship-style guns, and obvious point defenses, since it IS a Battlecruiser. They could give the Daedalus some bigger guns too. How would the Goau'ld respond to Apaches and armored vehicles, let alone actual tanks and mobile AA weapons? Would they build counterparts, and what would they look like? What about Goau'ld communities? Would they have their own vehicles and homes with electricity and modern luxury conveniences, similar to the Garmillas, albeit hoard such conveniences only to themselves, or might there be different classes of slaves, some allowed to have access to modern life themselves, while slaves of the lower class can be executed for even touching said technology?
I mean, why the fuck wouldn't Stargate Command send armored vehicles or helicopters through the Gate? I would think that they would have a parking garage next to the gateroom, even if they had to drill a fucking hole in the side of the mountain to do it. I mean, let's face it: we would love to see Jack over Apophis's guards in a tank.
Finally, it could give a second chance to include the Nox, and even the Furlings in the later arcs. For example, perhaps the Nox, while being unwilling to fight the Replicators or Ori, could offer refuge to refugees, or bolster the Tauri's shield technology. Perhaps this time, the Asgard can even have a happy ending, which I think a lot of us actually want.
I do agree with most of what you said. Especially the vehicles thing! But I like the Prothmeus design. Speaks t
How Earth was still learning to make ships. Which is why it looks like that.
@@sg-24 Then maybe they should just give the Prometheus realistic details. Space Battleship Yamato 2199 did this with all of the designs from the classic series, and it works wonders! (e.i. sublight engines based more on theoretical or near future engines or a stealth/military aesthetic, obvious RCS thruster ports, improved armor plating, obvious weapons emplacements, MAYBE refine the shapes and proportions around a little, similar to what was done with the Medarusa/Medalusa)
Think they should basically steal the "what if" Idea
I don’t really think some tie-in novels count as “original canon,” especially in the 90s. If Devlin had made a second movie, his first question was not gonna be, “wait, does this contradict that paperback I had absolutely no say over?” TIe-in novels, even mostly now, are just disposable entertainment to keep peopl’s interests up until the next movie rolls around,
@mahatmarandy5977 true, but from what I understand McCay based a lot of what he wrote on from the backstory notes given to him by the director/co writer Roland Emmerich.
@@sg-24 it’s possible but we don’t actually know what he gave him. Like for example, consider the Babylon 5 tie-in books. They made a big deal at the time of saying “these books really count, they’re all canon! JMS is collaborating with the authors and giving them information to use in the books that will tie in with the future of the show!”
Thing is: while that was broadly speaking true, the amount of info he gave the authors was pretty trivial. Like, in the first novel the full input was the phrase “Invisible Isobel.” And in other books there was just a sentence, or “work this paragraph in” or what have you. Some years back, JMS said that out of the nine novels, only one full book and half of another were canon, and he gave a list of the elements that were in the other books, which ranged from two words to a couple paragraphs.
So even if it’s true that the gate novel authors were given some info, we don’t know what it was, or how much of it there was, or anything like that. And more often than not, it’s just something they say for marketing purposes, but it’s not true. So I remain skeptical.
I hope this didn’t come across as rude or dismissive or, y’no, *bad.* That wasn’t my intention, but I’m just kinda not buying it.
Oh I didn’t think you were coming across as rude. It’s a very fair point, we don’t know how much was McCays own ideas and how much was the backstory notes. And the SG books in general are very loose when considering their place in cannon.
@@sg-24 thank you!
As an interesting thing, when AEG had the RPG license, there was a planned sourcebook that covered alternate Stargate universes themed around the Quantum Mirror mixed with a way to cover other versions of the basics there.
The novels (along with the movie and Infinity) were each going to have their own "chapter" devoted to how to modify the rules to use that universes specific things. Some of the work for it had been put on their forums when the license got pulled during the main license transitioning in ownership at the time. The movie staff weapons and the various gear from the books and the species from it were set up, same with their Atlantis stuff they were ready to go with at the time.
I never knew that! I need to look this up. Thank you for the info.
@@sg-24 It was supposed to be their next "general" book for the SG-1/Stargate line. The published books were the core book, 2 season books, a world on a lot of new worlds, and one on the Goa'uld. They had 2 more season books, the universes one a NID soucebook, an atlantis core book and most of the 1st Atlantis season book along with parts of another (and an Atlantis non-season book). There was also Stargate content in several of their SpyCraft books (the 60's Decade book, the military books, and I think the Mastermind book), and an alternate Stargate universe that tied into their own Shadow Force Archer thing that was partially finished and intended as a Web Enhancement thing.
Unfortunately, a combo of the license being removed during their licensing shakeup, and then the push for SpyCraft 2.0, followed by the team behind it buying the SpyCraft license and separating into Crafty Games, AEG then purged their SpyCraft and Stargate forums, and later everything
@AzraelThanatos well that’s a shame. I’ll have to look into more for a video. But thank you for telling me.
@@sg-24 The AEG SG1 RPG had a lot of work put into it and the books and a lot of collaboration with various people involved in the series' at the time.
When the license shuffle happened, it was even more irritating that the license didn't get used by anyone else and it's only a few years ago when another RPG came out.
Out of curiosity do you have a link to the forums about some of this stuff, I can’t seem to find it.
The books are good. If the summaries on the web are this confusing, I recommend just reading them :D
Yeah I plan to, just did t have time for this video.
First. Love your content and Stargate, thank you for this
@cad4922 that you.
The problem with a continuation of the SG1/SGA/SGU is you have to be a hardcore fan to know the whole lore. Amazon wants to bring in new customers/viewers. If a hardcore fan wants to watch a continuation of Stargate and does not have an Amazon membership, s/he will go and get it bcs of the show. Depends how large is the hardcore fan base though. For people not familiar with stargate, reboot may be the better option. Or at least having sort of a standalone show like SG1/SGA/SGU.
In my opinion, Amazon should make a movie about Stargate being introduced to the public and facing a new enemy, which the whole world would know of. Then, there could be a series about the Earth working together against the enemy, setting up bases off-world, showing how the humans are implementing new technologies, building orbital defense platforms, etc. Though that would clearly require a bigger budget and is Apple TV style. I wish Apple TV + James S. A. Corey have picked Stargate up.
In the end of the day, whatever they make is gonna be great. I can't wait to see what they come up with.
So kind of like a soft reboot? Takes place in same universe, but they are not referencing it all the time. Kind of like what the 2018 God of War did.
@@sg-24 yup, something like Stargate Earth a.k.a. SGE
Apple did try to get the right to stargate but couldn't
@prtfdc2 not sure how good Apple shows are, but at least Disney did not get it.
As an escapee from the destruction of Star Trek, Star Wars, and Doctor Who I say with hand on heart DON'T LET THEM TOUCH YOUR FANDOM! Put it away somewhere safe, treasure it, and take it out occasionally for the sake of nostalgia, but keep rebooters and reimaginers well away from it.
Honestly, yeah I can agree with that. Just saw images from Rings of Power. Just why?
Hey fellow SG brother...
Just a saying hi and hope you are well in the new year.
Thank you, had a rough start, but things are looking up
@@sg-24 ...well if you fall down, fall on your back...because if you can look up, you can get up.
It can be okay. Startgate can be rebooted in a parallel dimension, as we've already been introduced to the concept in SG1. This story could go towards a totally different direction, but could have some easter eggs, like finding goa'uld fossils and learning that they died out centuries ago, excluding them from the new plot, but warming the heart of long time fans.
What if we never burried the gate? What if we rediscoveret it earlier? What if we discover it in 2500? What if there was no gate in Earth, and what if the goa'ulds never took humans to other planets? So many possibilities!
Someone did suggest a What If show like in Marvel.
I have to think of these books and comics as that one comment said, like fanfiction. There are multiple ways to explain the difference between the first movie and the series. You have the unreliable narrator effect in that Daniel got the info about Ra being the last of his race from ancient writing that would have been based on whatever Ra told the people he enslaved. Then there is the consideration that Earth tech at the time would have no realistic way of tracking the wormhole, especially since they didn't even know the symbols were constellations until a few minutes before that, so there was no reason for them to think it was another galaxy besides a mistake in scale. There is also artistic license to consider in that they never expected the movie to be popular enough to warrant turning into a series. And lastly, there is also the fact that no cross-media adaptations ever survive 100% intact. So, I see the books as either fanfiction or an alternate universe timeline or something along those lines.
EDIT: Heads up! Unless something drastic happens in the next few months... this summer will see a Stargate *SERIES* revival go into preproduction for release in summer 2025 on MGM+. This is a "revival" and not a hard reboot. The planned movie has been pulled and I have no idea if it's ever going to be made.
Hey...that scene with the hockey stick that had RDA, Hamond of Texas and Carter in it...what is that from?
I have no memory of it.
It’s from the episode Fire and Water, the one where a fish man makes them think Daniel is dead. It’s in season 1 I believe.
@@sg-24 ...
Thanks bud.
as many times as i have seen that episode i do not remember it at all.
But since I have the series downloaded i will go watch it again.
probably a lull in the action or energy and i went to the bathroom or something :)
Very late-comer to your vid, and also havent read the books (which you said you havent either), but as i remember it Ra was a grey-ish alien at the beginning of the movie, but was always within the serpent-head armor after abducting his future human host at the beginning of the movie.
Yep, that’s what the movie set up. The shows went create the snake body for them. I believe it was the older RPGs which tried to come up with a reason for this. That being that Ra took an Asgard as a host
Fair enough, it just came off as I was listening to it as if they completely changed it from "Ra was a grey alien" to "Ra was a symbiote snake" and I always felt the movie made it clear that Ra was searching for a new host because his old one was dying, and that's why he ended up getting a human host. Guess it's time for me to watch the movie again!
Well remember it was in the RPG this was stated, not any of the shows or movie.
@@sg-24 fair enough, I must have missed that in your vid and never saw the RPG content outside of mentions like this vid
I read those books in high school in the early 00s, while also watching SG1 in its heyday. I liked how it presented a somewhat more lonely and mysterious universe, and it was pretty good mil sci-fi (modern vs alien weapons, Earth hastily mobilizing space to defend against Hathor). I didn’t like the “drama” plot lines, e.g. Daniel’s marital problems and how Abydonian refugee difficulties were presented.
Stargate is like star wars if you watch it in a movie or show its cannon. Any thing else is legends. First movie can easily came before Sg-1.
But wasn’t Legends canon until Disney?
I don't mind the idea of a reboot, but I don't want something that disregards all the mythology of the SG1verse. The proposed Devlin/Emmerich back to basics remakes felt like a slap in the face to SG1, given that SG1 was the thing that made it successful enough for a reboot to even be considered. Have a reboot, but I want the Asgard, Jaffa, Wraith etc reimagined in some way
Earth is pretty OP right now, and at this point the Stargate should be public knowledge anyway which takes away from a central premise of the show. Hard to see how a future show in the SG1verse will really work without it just being a generic futuristic star trek esc sci fi, present day (with current tech) was part of the usp
Thought i like the series, i think this alternate canon looks better; i like Abydos on another galaxy, Ra being the last of his kind: it feels more mysterious. The Goa'uld thing somehow feels odd and furthermore, i wish there would be more about the race Ra was the last of.
Just finished another rewatch of all 3 series, (took 9 months). I am thinking I should turn my attention to all these comics and books. I am not sure where to even start! Seems like there is a lot out there I didn't even know about.
@Stargateuntangled yeah the books and comics do have a lot going on. Sometimes good, and sometimes bad.
a lot of us don't particularly like the fandom because they like to "pretend" that the novels and comics are cannon, when they clearly aren't, and they will try to convince you any way they can possible of this, but no, just no.
as Michael Jordan once said, STOP IT, GET SOME HELP.
and yes, we want to follow the cannon of the "tv show", not the movie, just so there is no confusion here, and they can't expect us to want to either i don't want to read the uncomfortable comics or the novels, if the story's suddenly existed in the show on our screens, then i might be forced to accept it, it doesn't mean i like it though, i loved brad wrights universe adaptation, there is more mystery and nuance where not everything is fully explained so it keeps us guessing and speculating, that is good writing that i hate to admit has sadly gone missing with a lot of new writers of shows of today, that style is good because it keeps us guessing and intrigued to want to learn more about the universe, and sometimes where other stories ended, it gets you to speculate on further motives with some story arch's and the other character's involved.
why do you think people still love to talk about this show after a decade of it being off air?
@user-tp5yb4hr4w when you said the fandom do you mean the website or the actual community of SG fans? Because most I have talked to agree that the books are not canon. Even thoughts who like the books.
As for the rest I do agree with you. So much media today makes extra material required to fallow a universe. I know Halo as an example had this issue for a long time, and still kind of does. I mostly cover the extra material stuff in SG because I find it interesting and just fun stuff to know. When SG returns if they don’t fallow the books I wouldn’t mind… unless the books end up being better. God I hope not!
I'm not a fan of a reboot. When it comes to reboots it needs to have a good reason for it. The show did some interesting ideas with its reboot that makes it good.
Part of me wouldn't mind seeing where the films would go, with them being two separate canons but if i were to pick one I'd rather have the shows canon, cause the film timeline is just weird, and although interesting, doesn't sound as good, it's very 90s (which I like but not sure would work today).
For me I'd want sort of a requel, set in present day, where in the gap between universe and now being when the stargate program became public knowledge after an event where to save the world SG1 destroyed a ship in a way that couldn't be covered up. The new show starts with the stargate program being restarted, after being on hold while the aftermath was handled, and a new SG1 goes put to explore the galaxy and assess to current state after a decade of isolation. I'd also like the science officer in the team to he the grown up clone of Jack (taking a different path and embracing his intelligence).
The past characters and events still but you get a bit of a clean slate to reintroduce older factions and have new factions that have risen in the power vacuum.
A few plotlines for past characters could exist, like Daniel and vala disappearing thrpugh the stargate after travel was banned and also the current status of Atlantis, which returned to help fight the wrath before the stargate shutdown and the people on Atlantis refused to abandon the city.
It was getting ridiculous that the stargate program was still secret and was becoming a bit of a problem writing wise and i think any continuation would need to have a public stargate program, which is also a perfect explanation for the huge gap in the show.
I think Stargate is a bit more susceptable to power creep than most show/movie IPs. What i think they should have moved to is more galactic diplomacy/regional conflicts. Several episodes hinted toward multiple pocket interstellar civilizations which hadnt grown past a few dozen systems locally without using any stargates.
The Goa'uld were a glactic power with ships but they basically only really traveled between systems with Stargates, as well as systems with naquadah. Humans were their target host for whatever reason, and we almost never saw any groups that weren't descended from the original human hosts in the Milky Way.
Even in SG1's later seasons, the Lucien Alliance is a group of former subjects using Goa'uld tech/ships and doing similar things to the Goa'uld but on a regional basis. Any reboots/renewals should focus on regional conflicts as well as the fact that Earth is now leagues ahead of any previous power structure technologically.
Explore things like forming a galactic government, struggles with expansion without just becoming a colonial power, revealing the Stargates to the general public, etc.
There's a lot of scifi that hasnt really been explored well by other major IPs that could make for some GREAT material for a new SG show.
Love the comment. A lot of cool ideas that I agree with. I think a lot of IPs right now are doing the Dragon Ball Z thing of continuous growing of threat levels, but you can tell good stories without needing to go full galactic scale of things.
@@sg-24 I think what I'm trying to get at here is that without a retcon, Earth *is* a galactic power. We can get anywhere in the galaxy within 72 hours, near guaranteed, because we can get to the Pegasus Galaxy inside of 3 weeks (I wanna say 15 days by end of Atlantis). Every power gain that the SGC got was thru adapting another civ's tech. We cobbled together our first FTL drive via researching Goa'uld tech. We jumped ahead with Ancient tech, and then again with Asgard weapon tech (though there is a show-based reason we might not get to keep Asgard weapons).
I want to see regional non-gate civs with slower but stronger ships and us expanding out and encountering them. There's ways to do things without retconning down Earth power levels, and ways to bring conflicts that can work with current Earth power levels (Lucien Alliance for instance I think is a lot bigger than most people think).
a few things i liked,
fristly the SGC actualy got around to sending advanced armored vehicles through the gate. i do kind of tilt my head with heliocopters as those might be to big to fly through a gate with out cliping it with their rotty blades;. but they might have being modifed to fit or taken through on a truck and depolyed on the other side
long have i wished for the SGC to use tanks and jeeps and what not in their obration. i would also love to see like gould, wraith, ori and lucian alliance ground vehicles beyond just their verous fighter craft. ok i wont lie i just want a star gate RTS game. like in the stile of command and conquer 3. with the cover system form dawn of war 2 or coh
come on dose the idea of that not get you hot and bothered
2ed thing i like is their are more alien races, as in truly aliens. stargate truely needed more guys than just humans with glowy eyes and goth vampires in space
an hell yeah id love to see the seti and lion aliens return, and the star gate program become puplic. i think just a little regigging could do it like how you think bad guys from stargate infinity could work. just change them up
thats an idea for an epiosde, how would you intergrate them into a possable show
Probably they disassembled them and re-assembled them on the other side. We saw them do similar things on SG1 a few times, most notably when they built the large multistage rocket to try to prevent a an Amish planet’s sun from dying
The only SG show that did aliens well…alien was SGU. As all the one see met were not humans and the humans we did meet was Destiny crew’s descendants.
I would like a xcom like Stargate game more
Stargate made me fall in love with HFY! decades before i even knew what that is
humanity OP is the goal!
NGL, I kinda like this continuity better than the TV series.
I kind of agree. I wouldn’t go so far to say it’s better, but if they made a show or movies based on the books I wouldn’t mind.
The book continuity is interesting and probably has a stronger basis for building a franchise on than the movie alone. But its biggest strength seems to be its political realism, and the parallels to real world human/American/corporate imperialism, so I'd be surprised if those themes survived the transfer to a relatively big budget TV show or movie.
Stargate Canon is Simple...
• Stargate (1994) Film Universe Canon.
• Stargate (1997-2010) Tv Series Universe Canon.
• Stargate Novels Universes Canon.
• Stargate RPGs Universe Canon.
Funny enough most people like to argue with me about the canon of the books and RPGs
@@sg-24... But each medium has its own changes to the backstory & events.
It's just the easier to say Each is their own multiverse of the Stargate settings.
It's less messy that way. Nothing gets retcon'd, it all exists in their own pocket universes.
TV series is the Biggest and most well known source though.
Oh I see, sorry I misread your comment. I thought you were saying the films/show/books:/RPGs were one big universe. Again my bad
Personally, I hope they don't adapt the books into movies. I don't like the story. While Stargate SG1 was a scifi about discovering new worlds, and fighting evil aliens, the books are pretty much just the US invading and occupying foreign land. The US goes with an army, occupies foreing land that happens to be a desert, has disputes with locals that live there, and then it has to leave that land, and then goes and invades another land, where they try to take it from the natives, so they can resettle their people there. Yeah, pretty sure I already heard both those stories. And honestly, throughout moat of what you said, I wasn't able to root for SGC, as they pretty much appear to be just less evil bad guys. Especially in last two books when they pretty much invade an inhabited planet, settle on it, and fight with the locals, who just try to defend their land. And they doesn't even seem to ask, why those cats are, and why are they fighting.
@anne.andromeda I can see most of your points and to be honest I never really thought about it that way. I guess I just made a disconnect between the SGC and the corrupt government officials. Though I’m not sure if the cat people are from the planet. So they might not have been locals.
Thanks now i have to get these books. 😂😂😂😂
i understand why they want to move to movies instead of a show, they simply make more money on movies than they do with shows, but with a show you get to tell stories with a lot more depth and details over a movie and the audience tends to crave a show more than a movie.
don't get me wrong, i like movies, but if i watch a movie i will only enjoy it that one time, but i often find myself watching a movie that i liked and will often think that movie would make a great show where the story could be continued.
let me pick up another movie i watched a little while ago, so i saw the movie Odd Thomas, after watching that movie i thought it would make a damn good tv series, maybe not like stargate but it opened up for some great potential story telling, i know some people would want another movie because they could make more money off of it, but the potential for a good story with lots of depth and details is something that show would need, the problem with movies is they are temporary joy and they leave so much potential behind because there's not really a whole lot you can fit into a movie because of the format won't allow it.
did you know that brad wright had planned for 2 more seasons of sg1? but he couldn't use all that material because the show was canceled, and the only way he could put in at least some of that story was the movie the Ark of truth, that's over 40 established written hours all being condensed into a 2 hour movie, that's why the show has so many gaps in the story making some of the explanation's feel incomplete near the end of the story Ark, and sad to say, but this is why movies suck so much, because so much potential is sucked out for mediocrity and action.
the movie and series was another situation.
First it where the 90tys
second when they made th movie, they couldnt know how humans love the film
third : you can interpret the movie right if you want:
like they just thought Anubis as the last and th grey alienthing as a reflection of the inside of the Indiivum becouse of the light of the explosion and so on
While interesting what other paths could have been taken, I like the version we got as the show better. If they had done more then a book, they would have been the same, as is how TV shows are written. In a way, you can see all these stories DNA in the existing show to one degree or another. Also, I think the series is less reboot, and more "conversion" to the small screen. RA being the biggest change and the location Abidos of course, as said.
I think when it comes to what is "Canon", one might better say "Continuity". In one respect, the books are their own "Canon" and the TV show is not "Canon" to the books, and the reverse is true. But you can not mix them and it be logical or consistent. You can have branch points, where both share the same history, and go in different directions, but can't re-merge after that branch.
Star Trek has this, Both the 2009 Series and the Discovery and other NuTrek branch off of the same original shows, Both do different ways but can't remerge or be counted as original time line materials. None of them are invalid, but they can not claim to rejoin the main timeline by branched from. The exception is how Picard Season 3 ditched 95% of Season 1 and 2 story to attach its self back to the OG TNG timeline. But that's vary rare for a story to do that, I am not sure that's even happened before. Given this, perhaps its best to say a story can't claim its self as part of another story's timeline, unless it highly respects that timeline's continuity.
Bottom line, everyone has their own opinion on what is "Canon" to a story, and it is opinion based on narrative data from the material. The greater the inconsistency within that narrative can sway opinion on of that story should remain part of the arc of the narrative.
I kind of disagree on the reboot and conversion thing. Theres examples of franchises moving to the small screen (the MCU and DEU) and they didn’t need create a brand new continuity. On that note I do agree maybe I would have gone with that word over cannon.
I’m also not too sure on that Star Trek examples. I know the 2009 movies did get set off in their own continuity. But from what I recall a big reason people didn’t like Discovery is that it was set in the prime universe even with all the breaks to cannon. Though I haven’t really kept update as to what’s been happening with it other than it ended recently.
The idea of rebooting something that already has an established Canon and characters and everything else is stupid. You can just take it off in a new direction. Good example was be when they finally decided to do something like deep space nine and Star Trek instead of just another ship or when they decided to go with an actual new class of ship new crew and a new area of the galaxy when they did voyage this whole idea of going retro and going back to the past and and, bumping that up is crazy. My point is there’s no point in rebooting a show that it’s already got a fan major fan base why not just do something new Stargate Academy or I don’t know a new SG unit. or somewhere else there’s a lot of ideas out there
Oh I agree, Stargate has plenty of opportunity to tell different stories in its setting. The one in these books just seem like an interesting route to go, some have suggest doing a what if kind of thing with it.
personally, I don't think movie reboot of stargate is a good idea. Aesthetically (and to a large extend, thematically), it would end up being a knock-off of Villeneove's Dune movies. I don't think we really need that. A show reboot would also likely go up in flames, constantly being compared to its much more successful predecessor.
Personally, I consider Stargate to be over. I don't really see a way that anything could be meaningfully added to it, without it being a net negative over what we currently have. I don't think the unresolved plots of SGU and SGA, and the loose threads in the cannon (like the furlings) are necessarily a problem.
That’s definitely an interesting point of view. I almost agree with it, as all the shows ended in such an open ended way that it’s not clean what is left to go forward with it. That being said I remember franchises like Star Wars and Star Trek being in similar situations. And yes a lot of what has come out from those franchises has not been good, but I’ve personally found some hidden gems. Even Brad Wright had come up with a script for a new show, and things were all set to go, until Covid hit and then Amazon moved on with their own ideas.
I'm too much of a fan of SG1 and SGA to accept a reboot. Never knew there even was a book/ comic series. Maybe I'm a little too biased, but these stories don't sound very good to me
Well I can see that these stories are not for everyone.
Is all good to me
I like the darker tone of the first books, with racism and exploitation of weaker people. Its more true to life also the stargate doesnt stay secret for 20 god damned years. The show is just so positive where competent and well meaning people win out after a minor struggle. Where keeping the stargate secret is a good thing and not a complete betrayal of our trust in our leaders.
star trek reboot sucks balls, and I will not watch a stargate reboot at all. After the first spiderman I stopped watching for the 2nd spiderman, and the only reason why I watched the new one is because its part of the main mcu. If they reboot him again I'm done with spiderman. So sick of how the answer to everything is just to reboot it and try again. This is why no one watches dc comic movies. They reboot after 1 movie.
You are the author of your own discontent.😂
@@awesomesause I just hate watching stuff that sucks
If you watch it as an alternate dimension with a vastly different timeline it makes it bearable and, if you apply the logic of timelines from the Flash movie it makes it logical enough. That's if you don't have an aversion to alternate dimensions/multiverses.
I loved both the movie and SG1 , but lost interest halfway through stargate atlantis? the concept and idea is good, but its no star trek? hell its not even close . plus better shows aired at the time, Buffy & Angel being one of them, plus the return of doctor who in 2006
I’d say give Atlantis a chance if you are looking for something to watch. It has some advantages over SG-1
o.k cheers 😀
@@sg-24 i have been looking into SGU , looks interesting
Yeah some people really don’t like it, and while I think the first season is kind of rough the same can be said for SG-1 and Atlantis. Second season is pretty good.
My problem isn't really with a reboot. My problem is with a reboot in the _current year._ That I absolutely can not abide.
Perhaps in a decade or even sooner we can have nice things again, but atm any production would be irreparably tainted by modern western ideology. Thankfully, said ideology is in the process of being purged by common sense returning, but it will take time and until the Overton window is back to a saner time I'm entirely against any reboots of anything made in the west.
Mind you, I have no interest in a reboot and wouldn't watch it, but if done several years into the future I probably won't be actively hostile to its existence.
If anything, and this might be an unpopular opinion, I actually liked SG:Universe and would love to see it continued more than any other option.
I really agree with this. We have seen good reboots in the past, it’s just right now reboots/media in general kind of suck.
Also I can say you are not alone. I would like to see a continuation of some kind for Universe.
Stargate just the old TV show Time Tunnel on steroids, not say Time Tunnel was a bad show, it was good for it's time. And Stargate the same
I’ll have to check out this time tunnel
it's 17 years not a decades worth.
the decade is the time the show has been off air.
@user-tp5yb4hr4w didn’t I say over a decades. Though you are right. Probably would have been better to say around 2 decades.
Yep...more than two decades.
A book series!?
Yep, there’s also SG-1/Atlantis books.
I hope they don't reboot it. Not for any other reason than I think it's great the way it is. I've seen the mess they've made of Star Wars and Star Trek. I think they need to leave their hands off of this one.
Let the fans do fan fiction and they will make any changes that's needed to be changed.
After all, as far as I can tell, all of the reboots recently are just really, really bad fan fiction. With a big budget.
This sounds more like an anime that it does a live-action TV show if they did an anime version of this I would not be upset because I would feel like it is something entirely different than the TV shows that I know and love the Stargate TV shows could ever be a anime of any kind yes I am talking about Stargate infinity and while a lot of us have a fond memory of that and I find it for the lack of a better word cute I do not count that show as Stargate as I enjoy it. But this screams anime to me
I would love a stargate anime.
Here’s the thing Emrich and Devlon couldn’t write or direct for shit. It’s true for nearly everything that Emrich did.
The solution is simple. Continue the show and jettison Stargate Universe as apocryphal. Nothing of value would be lost.
I mean I liked Universe, and so did the show writers/producers like Robert C Cooper. I doubt they would be willing to give the show up.
@@sg-24 Considering it's what killed the series I imagine it'd be the best route regardless of the minority who liked it.
And setting aside personal taste, Universe introduced the most ridiculous and unworkable concepts in the entire series, such as Earth being simultaniously incredibly overpowered thanks to Asgard tech yet the Lucian Alliance somehow being a tangible threat.. which is pretty much like making a story where the United States is in an equal rivalry with an LA street gang.
I just don't see a continuation when the world building has been torched that badly.
That’s fair.
They could just make destiny as a mystery that's in the background and a possible plot point later on
@zephyr8072 I think the issue with the Lucien Alliance is that it never really got fleshed out. What they did show in the shows is that the Lucien Alliance is a group of worlds (no real numbers given, is it a couple of solar systems or several dozen) that are using Goa'uld tech and ships, mixing in Earth tech (mostly computers) when they can.
The show fleshed out the Goa'uld as regional warlords with a quasi-government council body (the System Lords) that kept any one warlord from getting too powerful. The Lucien Alliance could very well be Anubis-level or even larger power, but with a more resilient structure because power isn't just concentrated in a single warlord. We just wouldn't know unless we had a viable spy network within the Lucien Alliance, which the shows suggest we do not have. We seem to have some allies that are near/local to them that will report rumors, but little more than that.
Personally the movie Canon got some things right like aesthetics and sgi early series got some things right like scale and science. However from series 4 onwards sg1 is not that good, looses focus. Reboot with original focus of exploring ancient cultures through ancient alien lense again would be cool.
I can agree with that idea for a reboot. I do like SG1 as a whole, but I think some focus was lost, and power scale become a problem.
@sg-24 what do you think about the focus being taken off Jackson and moved to O'Neil, from movie to series? Personally I would have liked the suicide soldier aspect of oniel explored more, that he is willing and ready to do anything to save earth even if it means his and the people around hims death is a heavy subject and when exactly he lost that is never explored.
To be honest I’m not sure. I saw the series before the movie. So for me this is O’Neill. The show did try and touch on his pain a few times, but as it went on they addressed it less and less. One could see that as growth, but I can see why for others it’s off. As for the move between Daniel to O’Neill I felt there were both kind of the leads of the show and got roughly equal screen time.
One thing I no longer enjoy is the whole "primitive humanity against a highly advanced species" trope. It's been done *to death* since I've been watching scifi (40+ year old trope). Most Stargate plots rely on that trope, and as a result, Stargate never interested me in the slightest (Stargate Universe is an exception, I really liked that show as it reminded me a bit of Star Trek Voyager). I really wish there would be some movies or shows based on the HFY premise (Humanity, F**k Yeah!).
I'm sorry, but rebooting SG-1 is sacrilege. It is not like the Star Wars EU which was no doubt bloated and convoluted, (But let's be real, what Disney has done is 1000x times worse. So all in all, scrapping built up canon is still a massive mistake either way.)
Oh I agree, I want them to keep the current canon, but if we had to get new Stargate at the cost of old canon I wouldn’t mind this.
@@sg-24 I would rather preserve the old and keep it in the past to be fondly remembered, instead of something coming out that bastardises the franchise and splits a fandom.
Fair given how current shows are. Star Wars and Star Trek are 100% victims of this.
Personally i hate reboots with a passion as i prefer continuation of already established canon and its characters. I especially dislike BSG because after that every show wanted to be as edgy and dark as it was which made every show look the same and feel the same.
Sorry but i don't want more remakes and reboots.
That’s fair. I know how burnt out people are by them.
I don't know about Stargate having an open ending after all, I like many folks who were big fans of Stargate SG-1 and/or Stargate Atlantis pretty much voted with our feet when Stargate Universe didn't continue to tell the same sort of semi-serialized episodic adventures and instead opted for Mystery box high interpersonal drama with a bunch of awful people in leading roles coupled to shaky-cam faux-documentary style including talking to camera - the same style that ruined prime-time comedy and action films of that era. So as far as I'm concerned the ending of Stargate was with the film Stargate Continuum.
What about Atlantis? Didn’t it kind of end open ended?
Read it you are going to review.
I’m mean this wasn’t so much a review, but a story summery. Which yes probably should have read, and will at some point.
Classic BSG is better.
There, that's how you say it.
I dont want a reboot because they will ruin it with all the dei woke stuff. They need to wait a few more years
Just wondering, what DEI woke stuff you talking about? In my memory, Stargate has always had a lot of focus on respecting cultures and taking down those that are attempting to exploit people.
@@saurianwatcher4437 I wasn't referring to the old stuff. The old stuff is great. I was referring to if they started a reboot in 2024. It's not that I really care about the Dei stuff, I am sure someone likes it. It's just that I don't and I hate them trying to trick me into liking it.
Stop saying "Marines". They were NOT "Marines". They were AIRMEN. In the Air Force. 🙄
I think in the books they used marines.
@sg-24 actually I read the book too. They kept switching back and forth between Airmen and Marines. I don't think the author knew the difference.
To be fair the SGC did have a few SG teams that were made up of marines.
Honestly, I'd kinda like the idea of telling these stories as a reboot of Stargate
It's familiar, but it doesn't taint the show's legacy, because it's in a different universe
The multiverse has already been established to be a thing in Stargate, so this is just a peek through the quantum mirror, you might say
Also, imagine the absolute hype if, in the last few seconds of the film or season or whatever, Carter, Daniel, Vala, Teal'c and Mitchell stumble through the malfunctioning Stargate of that alternative earth as a soft launch for SG-1 season 11
@JugglingSword oh I love that idea!
I only now realised I listed them in the order of how much I like each character. Wild : )
The movie was cannon and something's were reconnected but it's still a bit a movie you honestly need to get your info right
But what the fans are actually worried about is how this will more than likely be a reboot to make a woke stargate which we’ve seen before ala rings of power, Star Wars, marvel movies… so let’s say ok if it’s a legitimate reboot and not a nonsensical destruction of another classic ip but blame the ‘fandom’ due to blah blah blah but old same song and dance 🤷♂️
Wah wah wah
@@aonary5382 I’ll be honest I really want to see them make a woke remake of Forrest Gump let them switch genders on Forrest and Jenny and watch the meltdown that would occur lol 😂
The real question is: what ever happened to the Furlings?
🐻❄️
"boat of a million years". that is some really corny shit lol.
but the comics you read were corny as well too lol.
it might be good for a Saturday morning cartoon back in the 90s, because that's what the writing consisted of for me. funny enough i probably would have enjoyed that cartoon as a kid.
i mean i watched some weird shit cartoon that i freaking loved but was just as weird and corny.
i just remembered the name, it was called "Mighty Max" really corny cartoon show lol, funny enough in some ways that silly cartoon reminds me of stargate as the show did a lot of history and time travel and fighting bad guys, but it was just so weirdly done.
i even found the corny cartoon i loved as a kid on youtube and it's all episodes too lol.
ua-cam.com/video/visexFSp0sU/v-deo.html
Not my idea, though I do kind of like it. Oddly enough that image I showed was from a book not related to SG. I’m pretty sure it’s a reference to it. Sounds kind of interesting, 11 immortals decided to leave Earth and explore the galaxy.
Isn't Boat of a million years from Egyptian Mythology?
I’m not sure, only source I found was that book I mentioned, but it’s been a while.