Malignant Narcissism | Is it Narcissism and Psychopathy together?
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- Опубліковано 28 кві 2024
- This video answers the questions: What is a malignant narcissist? How doe malignant narcissism manifest in work settings? Malignant narcissism is a construct is not well studied, but in general refers to an individual has a combination of characteristics related to narcissistic personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, paranoia, and ecosyntonic sadism in aggression.
Psychopathy:
There are two types of psychopathy: Factor 1 (primary, interpersonal affective) and Factor 2 (lifestyle, antisocial) psychopathy. Factor 1 psychopathy has characteristics like grandiosity, pathological lying, manipulation, a superficial charm, callous, unemotional, low neuroticism and lack of guilt or remorse. Factor 2 psychopathy has a parasitic lifestyle, being prone to boredom, sensation seeking, impulsivity, irresponsibility, a failure to have long term goals, poor behavioral controls, and criminal versatility.
Narcissism:
There are two types of narcissism: With grandiose narcissism we see characteristics like being extroverted, socially bold, self-confident, having a superficial charm, being resistant to criticism, and being callous and unemotional. Vulnerable narcissism is characterized by shame, anger, aggression, hypersensitivity, a tendency to be introverted, defensive, avoidant, anxious, depressed, socially awkward, and shy.
www.psychologytoday.com/us/bl...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
Kernberg OF: Severe Personality Disorders. New Haven,
CT: Yale University Press, 1984.
Kernberg OF: Aggression in Personality Disorders and
Perversions. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1992.
Kernberg OF: Aggressivity, Narcissism, and Self-
Destructiveness in the Psychotherapeutic Relationship.
Yale University Press, 2004.
It really hurts when you have a narcissist deliberately trying to hurt you and you did not see this coming. It is as if they have an on/off switch as they can be nice to others and strangers and have an inner hostility and negativity towards those who care about them.
Yes, they are very bad and they get much worse as they age! All you can hope for is an early death but, they always manage to hang on!
That sounds like my wife , she's so lovely to her friends , but to me and my family she has nothing but contempt.
Like my new daughter-in-law. She comes across as SUPER SWEET (gagging) to people she wants to impress. But for me she mean, nasty, condescending, and rude to me. If I stand up for myself she acts like the victim, but in private she goes for my jugular. Threatens to assault me. But my son hits me instead. Now no one is talking to me and she is so happy about it. She even posted it on Facebook (before she blocked me and my family) she is happy now and doesn't care who she hurts.
I no longer have my son in my life. She stopped him from even being with me very much before they got married. Now she had full control over him. I am left out in the cold like everything is my fault.🤕
That’s what they do, what they are and what they are capable of.
Because they haven’t ‘groomed’ either a friend, family member, or a coworker, because they can’t, they’ve elevate grooming you but then because you are among friends and any family left, they say negative things about you, those you thought you could depend on for sanity then because of the psychopath, thinking of you as a ‘nut’. The psychopath will build allies who defend him.
They can’t be themselves or they’d lose their ‘Safe’. Their ‘Safe’ is a downtime, average person who mirrors his/her normalcy. Now, someone who has recognized them would see you as the enemy when the narc is the true threat, the true enemy. They can’t ‘groom’ a friend, family member or a coworker so again you may feel you are isolated and have no one to see the psycho as the insane psychosis thing. Classic dog chasing their tail … the worst thing about this is the psychopath will not voluntarily say they are crazy, insane and manipulative. They have to make their presents know either as a serial killer or an undercover serial killer.
@@davidsarmas6494 This is sooo true!! Why are they still here?? They have NO purpose except to con or hurt or manipulate people. Why are they still here??! The one in my life serves no purpose at all! His employment is replaceable so there’s no contribution to society. He only preys on those who are vulnerable. I’m one if his victims, he groomed me and my young daughter so, because if this I had two views to consider and he knew that. The rest is almost a six year distant history.
These are the scariest people you'll ever meet. These people can fool counselors.
Yes they most definately can, manipulation is their favourite tool
They are also excellent in gaslighting and manipulating clinicians, including in couples counseling. This happened to me, and it can make a toxic situation even more dangerous!
Yes they can. I experienced this first hand.
You are so observant! Excellent and sharp remark! (Not really). As if other narcissists are rookies at fooling counselors :(
Add me to the list! I had a decent education with emotional skills and he was able to manipulate two counselors! Of course he didn’t want to go to my counselor...Ugh!
I know first hand just how dangerous this kind of person can be. I would describe their abuse like Being Murdered right in front of the world and nobody noticing. They use your “reactions” to their horrible behavior as a tool to convince others of their innocence and your “craziness”. It’s discrediting you and your character and done precisely well enough over time your reputation gets ruined. Very dangerous and so awfully painful. I’m going through it right now and it is unbelievable . I couldn’t write a storyline like this in my wildest dreams it’s that mind blowing.
Stephanie B,You got a lovely smile 😊
Yes, perfectly stated. I went through this with my mom. She’d use words in public that were threatening only to me. She’d say a kind of “kidding “ phrase which, when we were alone, meant that she was about to sadistically harm me. So when she’d smile and say the say thing in public , I’d react poorly and she’d say “ oh my you see…she’s so hostile for no reason “
You have described the narc
So very well. Its such a shock when they come after you after the love bombing stage. No wonder we in a state of confusion.I spent 30 yrs with a narc and found a way to exit for good. That was a year ago. It just gets
Worse, never better. I wish I could help you. Its hard to
Explain to anyone who has not been through it. I have my
Sense of humour back and have met some nice people
It is what I wish for you.
Please get away. It is like
Being terrorized every day.
I wish you luck and a good
Life after this nightmare is over.
@@EvonRomano-ge2ogI am so sorry that happened to you. I know exactly what you mean.
Going through and experiencing same as you right now. You are 100% correct.
For a long time you are just paralyzed, oppressed, and confused. Toward the end of this video, Todd gives great advice. You cannot react. Never let them get you off alone. They are beasts. They want to make you disappear. They are black holes, they take everything
jluttjoh,You look stunning 🌹🌷🌷 dear
To identify malignant narcissism removes years of trauma from enduring the gaslighting. Once you are able to see them do what they do so well in action and marvel at it while knowing that it has nothing to do with you at all, you become freed from their pathetic grip.
Absolutely right. I am about 80% healed after learning everything I needed to about why my dad is the way he is
I hit the parental jackpot. I have two cluster b parents. Needless to say, I've reparented myself, gone low contact with one, and no contact with the other. I've reconnected with inner child and I'm living a fulfilling life. I'm healing year by year, and I'm grateful.
Do you worry about being narcissistic too?
Ditto. My dad burned our houses down when my parents divorced.
I had to go no contact with my entire family, as they all live comfortably in cluster B. Five narcissists, one with sadism, and me.
Afro Centric still not healed
I was married to a malignant narcissist for far too long. I "coped" by doing a psychology degree at home which involved going away to summer schools. Later becoming a full time student at Uni when all my boys were at school. And finally managed to break out of this toxic relationship after many years of slowly shifting the boundaries he constantly set in favour of myself and the boys. It's hard to do because these people do appear so nice in front of others so there is no support when they resort to nastiness or completely ignoring in private. Happily remarried to my childhood sweetheart we went to one of my sons wedding and I saw my ex-husband for the first time in 20 years.
Did I feel some kind of smug revenge to see that the years hadn't been kind to him and realise what a dull little man he was in real life - of course! I am human! Was I pleasant to him at the wedding? Again, of course - because he has no effect on me now.
The best way to treat a malignant narcissist is with absolutely nothing. Hard to do when you're right in the middle of it though...
Thank you, Dr Grande, for your excellent videos.
The best revenge is a life well lived.
@@2degucitas And looking good!:)
Oh wow, spot on you're so right. Glad you got your life on track and are happy 🙂
@Kitty Sulivan We all have vulnerabilities. No one is absolutely immune, and sometimes there is an element of bad luck involved. And these guys can really play someone, when that is their goal. But whenever someone realizes and gets out, good for them!
After over a year of looking at my ex's (narcissist) Facebook page. He's now with a Thai girl 25 years younger and lives there. It has taken me this long to realise I need to get on with my own life and not to ever look at his page again.
It has felt great to be free of those thoughts of him everyday ☺️
'Reaction is something that a malignant narcissist wants you to do', 'Just lay low'. Very, very good advice. When I started working in the financial services, I was wondering why some of my colleagues, who were so competent, had been repeatedly passed over for promotion, and were just doing their hours, keeping a low profile, and going home. Now I know they were in survivor mode. I slowly learnt to imitate them, downplaying my achievements (when I couldn't hide it : letters of praise from clients!) or hiding them (for example, not saying I was going away to Cornwall to hike several dozens miles, over the Xmas break) but it's been counterintuitive, as our neoliberal ideology recommends that we should all be striving to show how successful we are. Unfortunately, if you work with or for narcissists, that only triggers them and you become their target.
Having one for a parent is just hopeless.
Dark Tetrad mummy left me literally tattered and bleeding.
I thought I was an evil child because I never loved her and used to fantasise about her dying in a car accident so I could love her in retrospect.
She never stopped trying to destroy me… up to my 63rd year… when she died.
I wish I’d known all this stuff before.
My aunt is a bone chillingly ruthless old woman. Dr. Grande this video is the most comprehensive explanation of highly dangerous narcs. Thank you!
Mine too! She recorded our private conversation when I thought she was my only hope, then played it for the whole family. I wasn't told this happened, so I had to stay with her since mysteriously things got worse instead of better. She put me in a horrible position and ENJOYED it! I sensed something was wrong when she introduced me to her close friends then only had horrible things to say about them after. I moved back in with my parents (18 at the time)
She wouldn't allow us to visit our grandparents when they were sick. SHE was in total control. If we came over without her there, my grandparents would get nervous and tell us not to tell her we had visited. They had bruises which she claimed were from helping them, but as an assisted nurse, even if they bruise easily I know I never bruised anyone like that (suspicious places and severe). Then one night she called my Dad to gloat. I overheard it all. She caught my grandparents favorite cat peeing on some paperwork and decided to take revenge. It was below freezing with 22" of snow, she marched the cat out to the creek and threw it in. She told Dad she stood and watched until it stopped coming up for air. My Dad started crying and said "I'm sorry, I can't listen to this anymore," and hung up. I called adult protective services and PETA. They investigated, but my grandparents hid the truth. The cat came back 3 days later, half alive. I'm not sure why the cat came back, but I tried to be part of my aunt's life again recently too. I'm not smarter than that cat.
The older they get - the worse they get....
Same here except it’s my oldest sister. She is terrifyingly cruel. She knows when to shine it on to strangers but when the mask comes off - she’s sadistic! It does get more dangerous as she gets older. Heaven help whoever is in her crosshairs!
My mother was one too, and a hoarder to boot. Her siblings are the same. They brought her here for four years after a health problem. My small apartment was totally trashed by her hoarding and tossing trash everywhere. She would go into a rant and raving rage if I tried cleaning up. She would drop her heart meds on floor and go into a rage if I tried to pick it up to keep my dog from getting it. Nothing I cooked was good enough. She would rather eat greasy burgers from a local diner; then would refuse to take her fluid pills which resulted in her legs and abdomen swelling up. She would then tell her siblings that she was being starved and her medication schedule neglected by me. When she went to nursing home they insisted that all of the contents of her storage unit dating back to the 80's be crammed into this tiny apartment. I'm still trying to clean up the four years of hoard and mess that was brought in here from storage. I am overwhelmed to say the least. She passed in 2020 and still there is hostility from her siblings towards my son, me and even my little dog. This whole situation has wiped me out mentally and physically.
@@maudemathildeh335 oh I am so sorry! What a painful, tragic nightmare.
Malignant stands for sadism. It's as simple as that. Malignant narcissist is a narcissist with the traits of sadism
@@a-jhartung627, half of the population are sadistic in a certain degree. You can't put 1/2 of the Earth in prison. Improving childhood experience for all children is a better alternative: a well-cared-for child will never be a sadist
@@a-jhartung627 Phychopathy is tracable to brain abnormality. Narcissism is not. And sadism is not. What I'm trying to say in my comment, Malignant narcissists are sadistic narcissist, they are not necesserily psychopaths. So, society can hypothetically isolate all psychopaths based in brain scans, but malignant narcissists will remain among us all the same. P.S. I am against nazi-style social engineering, and I don't subscribe to your idea of isolating 'bad people', I'm speaking hypothetically only
@Majic C , you're right. It's not true that all narcs enjoy hurting. )) Some are quite content with one-upmanship and the praise over their altruism, it gives them enough supply to bide their time
Not in my experience, @Majic C They do, of course. They do feel fine after they prove their worth by putting another person down. But it doesn't constitute their only source of supply. Similarly they feel relieved after they win in a more-or-less honest competition, after a compliment, after a pat on the shoulder, affter getting popular acclaim, after they get an unshared attention etc. Since narcissism is principally uncurable, what do you think therapists do during narcs' visits to them? They teach narcissists to act humanly, not to trespass other people's boundaries and try not to retreat to negative supply. And sumetimes they succed in that.
Sorry, you stopped making sense for me
You can find another job, but if this person is your parent then you are really in a precarious position from the very beginning before you have the understanding and skills to be able to lessen the impact. In my experience a malignant narcissist also gets worse with age.
No contact. It's really difficult to make other people that you're not a bad child and that your parent isn't a victim of your selfishness etc.
That's true ! My mom did !
Gray rock
So true!
@@yehmen29 i went through that judgement
That's my mother right there.
Everything he said applies to my "so called biological mother ".
The giver of life in people's eyes and the streets angel, but behind closed doors she was very mean, sadistic, a bully, and a dictator.
I can't believe that I survived that kind of childhood. It all turned me into an anxious adult, which is another burden to carry in life.
What a horrible genetic bad luck.
I’m so sorry to hear that. Being anxious is an awful way to live
I was in an 8 month relationship with a malignant narcissist! Constant attack on any discussion we had. He would say don’t say those things I didn’t even know I said anything bad. He always looked for fights I could have spent 4 hours scrubbing the house but I was stupid for leaving the mayo out. Constantly tearing me down. He would say I was flawed and stupid. He screamed if I didn’t do things his way. He’s abusive at his job and say they don’t praise him or he made an employee cry.! He’s mean!
You cannot do anything rite, cannot have mutuality. He would say be careful how you talk too me. I’m an empath good hearted. I felt I was going to have a breakdown before going there. I had to leave him I could not take the picking, rage, yelling, dictator.
SagiCorn,You are beautiful 🌹🌹🌺,you don't need a narc 😈 in your life!!
Proud of ya ❤️😁 not many would or can do it so
@@christianpulisic7784 x
This is a perfect description of my sister. I wasn't sure what to call her (psychopath, malignant narcissist). Now I know. She manipulated our mother against me for years when I was very sick with ulcerative colitis in my early to mid twenties. I had no idea why my mother was treating me so badly. It got to the point that I broke off contact with her for six months to protect myself from the abuse until my father died. That's when it all came out. My mother is a grandiose narcissist, which makes her easy to manipulate. She always wants to be liked. My sister, who is 21 years older than me, took full advantage of that.
When my father died in 2016 she treated my mother like shit so they stopped talking to each other, which imo is really great.
She's the worst person I know.
She's jealous (esp. of other women), spiteful, has bad impulse control, is verbally and physically abusive, arrogant, shallow, and super fake.
If you meet someone like her, all I can say is RUN! They destroy everyone and everything around them. Protect yourself!
@@ttTTTTttttr that's called "flipping the script", how do you determine who is at fault? A quip as a response reveals you.
Wow! I’m going through a similar experience right now with my sister-in-law. Your comment really resonates with my experience. You cannot reason with either one of them, bytheway and it’s toxic, escalating and it’s difficult to get others to see it as they operate covertly and seem positively charming and kind to others. It’s insane!!!
So sorry 💔 feeling your plight
My sister is a monster it started with her bullying as a child as young as ten it just progressed to the most evil, gaslighting , expert liar actor manipulator, it would take me days to tell you the inhumane way she treated me after my husband died ( at 47 from Leukemia). The district in of my life I am 62. But she started treating my daughters abusively and it felt like she wanted them ,I have four , as her own.
I shouldn't have even tried to start to explain only someone who has been abused by these monsters can know how deep the robbing of our spirits and soul feels. Thinking about her gives me such fear and anxiety that it has taken me four years to start healing a little bit, I try to read as much as I can and watching tube videos like these to try and come to terms with the abuse loss of previous years being manipulated controlled belittled daily , and feeling my very soul weaken then my daughter Charlotte showed up to "Aunties". We were renting a farm house in a very rural isolated setting, and Charlotte second oldest daughter knew how controlling and cruel Auntie's was and saved my life. She showed up in the middle of one of my sister's rages demanding me answer a question I couldn't because I had no clue what when why or where she was talking about but a hundred answers later and ten hours into this rage of my wrong answers Charlotte witnessed her hit me and, went to my sister with her anger at the abuse she witnessed and never being afraid of my sister stay in rlll
Charlotte stood up to this monster she did not fear, and my ability to stand up to her and control the fear I had of her had simply disappeared, and I was a shell of who I used to be. My sister could not lie her way out of this one, or start the line of lies before I could call for help which I never did but she always made sure she told her story first after these attacks thinking I would reach out to my daughters. But I kept this ugly , painful, shaming treatment by my sister was not something I felt they needed to deal with losing their father was soo painful and he was missed so much I did not burden them to rescue me, for some reason I lied and told them how perfect my life was getting all the enjoyable days I spent with my sister , gardening etc. Lie after lie but social media has a way of connecting anybody who has an account and so Charlotte stopped by. I left with my daughter that day I had very little belongings left my sister would steal from me daily, twenty five years of marriage and I had to ask my sister for a pair of clean underwear she had taken 95 percent of clothes a lifetime of memories and my husband's carpentry tools destroyed two vehicles so I couldn't leave and robbed me monthly . I have not called her, text her, answered any call , ignored third party attempts by her to tell me she sorry please come home,. That was four years ago. The healing will take a lifetime,. But the memories are fading as long as I never go back .
Perfectly describes a boss I had once. I felt bad that I quit that job so fast when the abuse started, but now I realize I was really smart to get out when I did.
As a child I had a school Principle who would walk through the hallways screaming at the children. He was a short man with a bad temper. One time he spanked a young boy in front of the entire class for the "crime" of not getting to class before the bell rang. What angers me the most is that the teacher just stood there and let him do it. I'm so glad times have changed.
Yep. You are describing my mom to the T. Very envious, physically neglectful, and sadistic towards me. I learned by the age of 5 not go to her, even when I had broken bones that needed care. She was a master gas lighter. and could cry on demand. She can dish but can't take it. She can't even stand it when I use "when you do X I feel Y" language. Not paranoid but aggressive. She'd scream and throw things when angry.
She was a pediatrician. When accused of malpractice she had no empathy for the child she hurt because she had beef with the child's father. But she got any with it all, because she could act like the 'compassionate', 'warm' Catholic motherly type. To this day I never know what mother I'm going to get when I have to contact her.
Anarchist w/ Endometriosis there’s nothing inside them, they’re an empty shll soulless monsters
No wonder you ended up w endo. My mom + aunt tortured me as a hobby. Stress affects female tract.
Sorry to hear that you endured that. Hopefully your mother is no longer a pediatrician or in a position where she can cause further harm to children.
Are we related? At five I also knew daddy could take my life and routine beatings WITHOUT mother's concern ever was between the times my SIBLING wasn't abusing me too.
I've worked for two such people & in both cases, it was my success & achievements that got me fired. Anyone positioned above them saw them as angels. Anyone working under them, justifiably hated them. Calculating, duplicitous & treacherous. Basically, if anyone like this sets their sights on you, don't prolong the process, start looking for another job. I do have them to thank however, it's because of them I decided to work for myself & I'm doing just fine! =)
So true. The more competent you are, the more you will be undermined and sabotaged.
Same thing here. If only I had watched this video 2 decades ago, I would have been able to carry on studying for a BSc while working (online, Open University) and then to change careers. My managers' ambition was to make me drop out, at every company I've worked. They were also antagonised by the fact that I went to the gym regularly (12-15 hours a week, mostly Pilates, to remain flexible and prevent sciatica), that I cook from scratch and eat a lot of vegetables (I have to, I have coeliac disease), and when I started studying for professional qualifications they were enraged. I was fired from one company because I had passed too many exams, and at my next company, I was told that if I passed any more exams, I would be fired, so I had to hide that I was still preparing exams, and passing them. I ended up being more qualified than my managers... The clients preferred to deal with me than with my colleagues (less mistakes, less delays - when one of my colleagues left, we found that she'd sat on 2 death certificates for 10 and 11 months respectively, we ended up with 2 complaints from the clients' families) and I was accused of trying to steal the clients away from the advisers (I had the same qualifications them). Don't work in financial services (or real estates), it's full of narcissists.
@Olga Martin Thanks! Yes, I did. You keep sane & good too ;)
Don't let negative experiences with aggressive narcissists colour your ideas about work environments generally. There are still a lot of positive work environments.
Me too , i now working for myself .
So very true. It only took me 40 years to figure out how “duped” I was. Once I figured it out, I turned and ran like hell. Divorced and finally at peace. Healing each and every day. 🙏🏻
Congratulations
Congratulations to you. I was only in on and off for a decade and it was tough. Good for you for rebuilding after that. There is life on the other side.
I took several psychology courses in college in the early 90's including abnormal psychology. I've learned more from Dr. Grande's videos the last 6 months than I did in any of those courses, great stuff!
@Mark
Me too!
That’s bcoz you didn’t finish !
Sadism. They enjoy when people are sad. Yes, I agree with the closeness to Psychopathie. Yes, Manipulation. Exactly, about Power. They want to break people down. Yes, they hurt on purpose to see people suffer. Very good Video. Thank you.
That is true what you say about their Gaslighting. Yes, they can behave. No impulse controll. Scary! Right. Very charming and nice. Best Informations about Malignant Narcs.
They are kill joys.
Their presence turns a thriving happy atmosphere into a stressful anxious one.
They won't partake but rather just want everyone to stop what they are doing and admire them bloody cf's.
The little smile you catch cross their face when something goes wrong in someelse's life, ugh!
Seems like he's reading out a personal report of Trump's psychopathy!!
😊✌
Yup this is how my mom was. She loves it when someone fails in life for example. You can see her smile when it happens
@@warorislam they do seem to thrive on making other people suffer. I think because they don't feel true joy themselves.
You are such a wealth of information- a real expert and are helping so many people! Keep it up and Thanks!
Thank you so much!
@@DrGrande
Would you consider a profile on Meredith Miller from the channel, "Inner Integration"?
@@DrGrande
Yes, Dr. Grande has taught me so very much, and that my Narc mother is primarily responsible for her confused & wounded offspring. It took me many years to realize that I am a good, loving, kind, intelligent individual. I was the scapegoat of 4 children - my mother truly resented me in many ways. My childhood was not fun; I spent most of it trying to blend in with the wallpaper!. In my late 20's, I moved away from "Mom". I didn't know why I chose to move so far, but knew I had to put distance between us! Over the years, and distance, I began to figure out her NPD. She is now 93 and hell on wheels. My mother = the human woodchipper!
@@lindsayschilling8707 I'm glad you got the distance you needed. My Mom has NPD as well. She's only 62 - and I swear to you I am not exaggerating - she looks about 38. Lol, I suspect she'll make it to 93 like as your mother has. What is it with these people? A lot of them seem to manage to live FOREVER!! 😄❤
I have found that the "malignant narcissists" in my life aren't paranoid HOWEVER they are able to use another person's insecurities to create paranoia in them.
It's quite sick and twisted.
Yep
The one I know is paranoid
You just described my mother. She made me so crazy I stopped believing my own self.
Texas Cat,You look gorgeous 🌹🌷,Hope you are not with a narcissist!
I have always had an interest in psychology. I took a class years ago, but we never really talked about NPD in depth. Years later, I went through being a victim of collective narcissistic abuse and thought I was the toxic one. Now, that I'm healing, I am inspired to go chase my dream of becoming a psychologist. Your videos are so informative and insightful. I appreciate all the validation you have/ are giving me and others while helping us recognize healthy and unhealthy behaviors. I really admire your work and look forward to each and every video you share. Thank-you!
Likewise 😊 Self analysing has been my thing .Also very committed to understanding the animals .Wishing you all the best in your quest to study and learn more about this fascinating subject.
Im just out of my 16 year hell with one. I'm going back to school and university at the age of 44, to get my psychology degree, to help others make sense of the sheer magnitude of damage they do.
Update?
Omg. Right now, I am in "survival mode" and I've seen others attacked while I lay low. I have told myself that the attack is a life experience. Maybe if we could all receive education about mental health issues while we are younger, we could be more prepared for this type of life experience-the fact we are ALL going to be in the company of a socially aggressive person at some point in our lives. I really feel that education is the best protection and prevention!
Im doing the same, have been for the last 9 months. I escaped from him after 16 years of pure hell. But im alive, and I have my sanity, and I have God back again ♡ I wish you all the best with your new life, it's hard at first, but it does get better, trust me. Time and knowledge are the best healers. Dr grande has been on loop with me for the whole time, the man is amazing!
It's utterly appalling that detailed education about personality disorders is not provided to kids from around 11 up, especially young girls and women
Another comment that needs a heart from Dr. Grande!
I agree! We must educate children about this, especially encourage them to tell someone they trust. They do this because they like it and because they think they can get away with it.
Holy crap, I got off easy! My ex literally has BPD, all the traits of sociopath, nearly all of psychopathy, and all of malignant narcissism. I can see why people think there are demons amongst us. She was smoking hot, too, giving her even more power to manipulate others. Thank god she ran away the second I figured her out, and she learned she had no power over me.
Did you have red flags? Which ones? How soon?
With « no power over you » your position must have been secure…
Thank God
In my life the worst people I've met were dx BPD or bipolar. Perhaps it was a wrong diagnosis I don't know. One of the people dx bipolar stabbed a man. The
I was so naive. After 20 years of marriage to one, I’m physically, mentally, emotionally & spiritually exhausted.
Jeanie Mattone,You are beautiful 🌹,You don’t need a narcissist in your life!
My ex husband of 20 years was a borderline vulnerable narcissist. It took me along time to figure it out, caused so much emotional and physical illness in me, I am still recovering. I get sick to my stomach when I remember situations with him, so thankful that I don’t have to see or talk to him
Whats a borderline vulnurable n.? Im finally figuring out why what the hell was going on took me 25 years my girl ex is trying to legally destroy me in every and any way possible ive tried over n over i keep getting sicker and she makes me believe its me i know its not now im 65 disabled and now shes trying we dont live together to put me in the street making me look like im the bad guy its not true ive lived here 15 yrs now she comes in trying to force me into the street saying im abusive its 100% the other way noone knows she waited until all my friends died no witnesses nothing she scares the **** out of me !
She has no empathy never been wrong and on her mothers d.bed was called the worst human ever she knew her mother stated.
I had a boss that did that. She would destroy you. When I left she started in on someone else. She was a devil!
This is amazing Dr. Grande. My ex has every one of everything you mentioned. I became homeless to escape at year 27. It has taken 8 years to stabilize but I am beginning to heal. He has kept my divorce going since 2009 with delusional beliefs charges in court!!! The last time it took the judge 16 typewritten pages to convey his disbelief of all charges. The MN is like a battering ram, they never quit.
I have been in a marriage for 59 years. I had a friend attorney who told me to forget it at my age. Things go well most of the time now unless our children R around. Why does their presence disturb him?
@@nancyjensen6409 Because he isn't the center of your attention.
@@pattytheseeker8902 and he wants to be the center of theirs.
Exactly what I found, one must not giving any reaction... and laying low ... stay out of their vision and eventually they will move on.
The gray rock method is helpful, but be ready when they accuse YOU of having the attitude
Sometimes they still don't / WON'T move on, even when you do try and keep off their radar. 😕
Anyway, I had to reply to you to say that.. I'm a fellow 'Brown' and have 2nd, 3rd Great Grandparents- who were *JENSEN* (that go back as far as all generations before, on the 2nd / 3rd Great Grandad's PATERNAL lineage)......
as well as ask, was JENSEN your Maiden (birth/given) name, and BROWN.. your married name, or were you born a 'Jensen Brown' ? Where abouts are you from? ✌ From Melbourne, Australia. 😊🐨
Ive learnt that the hard way, but at least I've learnt!!
@@romb4649 I am from Canada. That is cool. So you must have Danish heritage.
@@helenwoods1467 It took approx.10 years and finally my X left me alone... Important thing is you got away... You Won!!! Also too, they are very good at getting away it... Remember they are the abuser/lier/criminal there is a reason our countries have jails!!!
My narc who passed away last year, leading me down this path of recovery/discovery, had literally every, EVERY trait/marker you listed. I was so trauma bonded, even once I started to suspect after coming across material online regarding narcissism, I couldn't get out, I just couldn't. It was a choice and yet it wasn't because my addiction to my abuser overtook everything. I know many of us here can appreciate how much an experience like this changes you. I'm at a point right now where I am ok being alone. I don't see myself in another relationship. My kids are grown. My narcissistic terror was my second relationship after my divorce. I just won't risk losing any more of my life to that garbage. I use to be a hopeless romantic. I use to look for the good in everyone. Now I just look for the truth in everyone. My views of others and romantic relationships have been changed forever.....
Same. Every single trait.
My abuser ex died as well. He was run over by a dump truck. Really.
Anyway I'm right there with you. And altho I'm finally ready to start thinking about dating, every time I talk to someone it's one little red flag and I BOLT.
@@joed180 forgive me..but I had to laugh my head off..run over by a dump truck???
@@helgagaines3598 I used to say I hoped he'd get run over by a school bus, but hey I was pretty close. 🚍
Same.
The first clue was his out-of-the-blue statement: "I can crush you".
My mother's usual threat to me and others: "I'll make you sorry you were ever born." It was true; I'm STILL sorry I was ever born.
@@chimene3851 Thank you for your encouraging words. My mother is gone now, but I admit her words and her intense multi-faceted abuse still haunt my mind. For some of the truly bizarre details, you can read my Featured story on the website Similar Worlds; I post under the screen name: greenmountaingal
The story is entitled: I Want To Know The Truth About My Family's Secrets and Lies. It tells the story of my earlier years growing up as a reject of my mother's cult-like group. They were scary people.
My awful ex would lean in close and threaten me in my ear, and then step back and let everyone around see what a great guy he is. It was like living in a made for TV movie. Still have anxiety over it.
Same.
"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" he said, referring to the major street in New York City that cuts through Manhattan's large commercial district. "It's, like, incredible."
My mother is a malignant narcissist with ego syntonic sadism. Even through medical school and neuroscience training there were no diagnostic criteria to describe her or put language to the level of cruelty she intentionally put me through, finally in 2012 I saw clearly the level of sadistic cruelty she was capable of towards me, how the abuse had not just been covert and strategic but insidious, severing my bonds with anyone she knew including my siblings. I didn’t know how ill she was but internalised all the trauma and group abuse perpetrated by her agents towards me. I ceased contact with her, no one understood the level of trauma nor that a mother could be so callous. I grieved for the loss of my whole family, and suffered post traumatic stress because for the first time I was safe enough to process the trauma. I am finally free and I am getting my health back. Cruelty takes it toll even on the strongest and most resilient of us. I hope therapists, doctors, trauma counsellors start to educate themselves. I had no one even as a professional, no one to support me or even listen to me. Never turn your back on someone who asks for help after psychopathic abuse. it’s real and pervasive. All love to everyone reading ❣️❣️🥰
Hope you are doing better. Takes a lot of strength to recover. Good luck.
I have one of those evil unloving mothers. Mine has about 13 comorbid diagnoses. She was so unstable she would go manic and throw me from moving vehicles as a teenager for no reason. I've been calling the police on her violence for 30 years and then she masks. They never admit her to a psych hospital. She picks up knives and swat team has pointed guns at our house. She is crazed out. I had to move her into a condo down the hall she is so dangerous. She is so vindictive, she threw away everything i owned, hired a crew to clean me out including my 9 year old cat. The lifelong abuse is enough to write a horror movie about. I take her to mental health professionals and they never have any treatment program for her like dbt. It's beyond sad. It ruined my life. I had to leave school so many times. She made me homeless many times. I would come home and all my bedroom furnuture and toys would be gone.
@@damiarassam7956 I’m so sorry for the things she put you through and the suffering she created for you. I hope you’ll find a peaceful solution and build relationships with people who are able to care for you in a mutual way. It’s a shame our health care model lets families and children down. the lack of alternative support is just as brutal as the abuse imo. Blessings & love 🥂
I am so sorry that has happened to you. Can relate.
@@camellia8625 thank you, same for you. All best. ✌🏽🥂
In closing; respond, do not react. Don't show emotion to them. Don't let them see that they got an emotional rise out of you. When you do that, you're cutting off their supply. Emotional vampire is another term for these people. When you're in there with a real narcissist, you can't afford to play games. I say "real" because these days, people throw the term narcissist around in the same way they do OCD. They can really missuse those terms. Those of us here know when we've met a real full blown narcissist because you never forget them. Ever. They leave deep scars that will always stay with you, in one way or another. Guard your hearts, dear ones.
Grey rock
My mother. She's narcissistic to the point of stealing and expecting people to just be ok with it. And she often does get away with things because she usually spends a lot of time calculating how to manipulate a situation and get people to rally on her side. She spent over a year setting things up (not to sound dramatic, but literally PLOTTING, lol) to be able to steal from me and have other people in the family and community back her up. It is insane how much energy malignant narcissists spend on planning deceit. And if it doesn't go their way, there's rage and playing the victim.
Agreed. I’m a psychiatric nurse and we often see people on adult in-patient units, who have co-occuring disorders that include ASPD and certainly are not grandiose and prefer to avoid people rather than require admiration.
My father is Malignant narcissist he used to beat me all the time always angry over anything he was a monster
yep
So sad.🙏🏾🙏🏾
I am very close to someone who had the same experiences with their father and I see the effect of the multifaceted abuses that they survived. It is beyond cruel. But someone that should share in the blame and shame is their mother who watched their child being broken down piece by piece and did and said nothing. She shares in the responsibility for the devastation that happened to her child. Shame on that family. The sad thing is that the family passes in society as a “good family.” We need to listen to the voices of the abused so that we can see through the masks of these deceptive people.
@@FindTheTRUTH337 every thing you said is 100% true my mother was a covert narcissist she used to tell my father that we are bad and we deserve punishment and she used to watch him beat us with a smile on her face
@@zanobiaX , I am sorry from my heart for what you and your siblings had to endure. Praying 🙏 for your healing and that you will have the wisdom, strength, and peace that you need to find and be your true self, not the person that they tried to make you. ❤️
17:00 People attacking an individuals actual achievements and trying to undermine belief in self, gaslighting
Absolutely horrible..
Hurting others is covered by him saying you/they deserve it. The bright eyes shows the enjoyment.
Yes, scary eyes. They get bright and shiny when they see the pain they are inflicting. RUN.
"Nice guys finish last." I was informed of this sine qua non for the facility in which I once attempted to work in a leadership role. This was a humiliating, miserable experience. I am different....but, I learned. Those who are smart, well-seasoned, and ethical don't aspire to finish. They aspire to continue their work with others. Most interesting talk. Dr. Grande.
When you uploaded this video I was in the middle of the abusive relationship with my ex. I was in the period of gaslighting, first open attacks and criticism.
I was absolutely oblivious of what was going on: I didn't realized yet that my suffering was caused by him. It's really hard to explain how he managed to hurt me so much without me noticing that I was suffering because of his behaviours. I was so inconscious and ingenuous.
These memories give me shivers.
This is my mom 🤦🏽♀️😭 I currently have no contact with her
I understand...is it like Jeckyl and Hyde ? It is like emotional whiplash..?!? Right ?
🤗 hugs & prayers, I know it’s painful but for the best
@@chimene3851 ...painful is an understatement, because when you realize that you are dealing with someone who will "flip" on you for a dime, literally, cannot take responsibility for her previous/current actions, is so covertly jealous and refuses to go to counseling,...there is only one solution to save yourself. Trying to establish boundaries with her may be futile and pointless if you are dealing with a malignant narcissist. Good luck !
@@chimene3851 ...I am glad it worked for you without reprocussions. For me, there is always backlash, and the crazy makers who play their sadistic psychopathic criminogenic games comes from all sides, not just her. Have a good night....
😰😢💜
I believe that all Supervisors and Managers or those wanting to be in that role, should study this disorder thoroughly! I have seen how brutal these people can be to others in businesses. This information needs to be in high schools and colleges as a requirement! Thank you Dr. Grange for a great video!
Salient point about the issuing of criticisms in such a way that aims to prevent the target from being able to retaliate or provide a rebuttal, I have frequently found this to be the case.
I agree
Well put!
Yup
Experienced it just yesterday. I see that whenever we were starting to get close on an intimate level, he would start criticizing something. Last night he began criticizing and almost lecturing me about not respecting him (total projection) and I just tried to keep being nice because I wanted to see him. (I see how he follows a predictable pattern when you try to get close to him.) The criticisms escalated and then he tried to hurt me by canceling ours plans. He did not like it when I calmly agreed and apologized. He really wanted me to come but wanted to mess with my mind. It’s all so twisted.
Yes! They run away.
Hi Dr. Grande! I binge your videos. Have a wonderful day :D
👍🏻 you can’t go wrong binge watching these!! 😊
I think I binge watch the videos of Dr. Grande more often than any kind of series on Netflix 😁
I binge watch too. I actually find his voice soothing, which is weird because the subject matter can be pretty dark.
@@2lynnw 😁😁😁
@@2lynnw ikr lol
This description fits perfectly the psychopathic malignant narcissist. There are many malignant narcs in corporate and investment banking environments. I used to report to one a while ago. He was scary. He used to shout, swear and terrorize everyone apart from his superiors who constantly fluttered. He damaged other people's health, and created business disruption and legal risk for the organisation. Management knew about his behavior and did not do anything for twelve years.
They are jealous and think others are jealous of them. I know that guy.
They belittle achievement. Same guy.
well said and they will get many people involved by telling them how terrible a person you are that is their danger its their enlistment of society to badmouth and humiliate their targets once they have the power of society/friends they can change their targets life for the much worse god almightly run from these creeps
@@gobblelevclass3nuclearsubm393 yeah it first is helpful to be able to identify them
Oh yes. I have met people like that. Mine used to play the victim card....and I bought it. At first. But then, it seemed to me, he was always the victim and that rose my eyebrows. Never taking responsibility. Told him my mind and never answered back. He had substance abuse, lied a lot and was quite sadistic. Never again.
It’s so true they belittle achievement. In my experience they are also very unsupportive during hard times and quick to point out failures.
I have a friend who's an altriustic narcissist. She's a real narcissist: she's very controlling, she fails to be emotionally empathic, she is very repetitive and rigid in her altriusm, she forces her goodness on people and hunts for appreciation. But she's not malignant. When she sees, she's about to hurt someone, she stops and steps aside. She doesn't quite understand the reason, but she never goes on with something hurtfull. On the opposite, my wife and my mother are malignant covert narcissists. When they see someone gets hurt from their words or actions, they step up their efforts to bring the person down. They derive pleasure from seeing somebody hurt, they get high with it. At the same time they don't demonstrate signs of psychopathy: they are not antisocial, I don't feel uncomfortable with them in public, they try to appear tactful, considerate and so on, like pure narcissists, without psychopathic additions. So, I take it literally, as Kernberg said - MALIGNANT NARCISSIST IS A NARCISSIST WITH THE TRAITS OF SADISM. And sadism is an 'inverted empathy' - getting high from seeing others suffer, it usually derives from unfortunate childhood, from being a victim of sadistic behaviour. Sadism prompts narcissist to seek 'negative narcissistic supply' - derive pleasure from scandals, from other people's misfortunes and so on.
Fantastic explanation!
Also, I'm sorry you are dealing with that double impact!
Sounds like your friend might actually be a good fit for therapy, if one could help her with insight, sounds like she's just working with what she was raised around/by. It could be borderline personality, they're not usually sadistic, just lost and hurt but handle situations horribly, bless their hearts. Note what kind of mental states she cycles through if any. Borderline has a strong stigma to its prognosis, but it is treatable.
Sounds like your friend could be OCPD.
Sounds like you are surrounded by narcissists. From what you’ve described they sound like pretty average selfish people. Most people are selfish and display some narcissistic traits. I think real narcissist are less common and have bigger hunger for big money and power. They are not very common in general population
Quite interesting. Thank you for sharing this.
Thanks for posting in-depth detail! Please listen to, think about, then like this informative upload!
rueben brown “Criticism timed for effect. quoting Dr. Grande” I could just hug him to death for telling us that!!!!
I totally agree with this vid! The last part really hit me personally, as I knew that as long as the narcissist that I was living with was focusing on telling someone else how to live by berating them with telling them of their shortcomings, I was not being attacked by him. Yet, yes, I did feel remorse that he was attacking others. Of course it would eventually come back to him berating me with his ranting on how "wrong" I was in how I behaved, the things that I wasn't doing for him..etc. He was extremely impulsive in what he did, always keeping me in a whirlwind of activity to satisfy his needs, and then abruptly switching out and saying he never meant any of that. Yes..there was no "fixing him" or even getting him to see anything about his behavior, and I feared his anger so much that I just did not. That was 3 and a half years ago, to which I escaped with my life, yes, it was that bad in the end, I have done a lot of inner work and am genuinely happy and I have peace now.
Just excellent!
Yes!
My mother was a malignant narcissist, and I was her Grade A Supply! That is .... until I left!
I was in absolute horror & shock when I discovered her treating a family member & cook at our restaurant in the very same abusive manner! Especially, in that she was highly competent in her cooking, and could cook as good as my mother! She was confident in that, so my wicked mother tried to bring her down a few notches, but would, of course, hide that from everyone, flip it around, and masterfully play the victim so that other unsuspecting members of the family would believe Slobodanka was the culprit!
She was not, and I knew it only too well! But, alas, the rest were eternally fooled by my calculating * mother.
I felt extreme survivor’s remorse, and so apologized to Slobodanka for the cruelty of my wicked mother! Am even in tears writing this after her passing. She died in her sins, totally unrepentant. A willing vessel of Satan an entire lifetime, but a first-class actress that fooled everyone, but ME! I HATE unrighteousness, deceitful ness & underhanded ness, and DISAVOW it in My God-Anointed Life, while my family feeds it more supply unwittingly & wittingly.
I still feel more sorry for Slobodanka, my cousin, who SO didn’t deserve that treatment!
Drip, drip! ....
I am just so sorry I was not there for her to help her more! My mother”s goal was to make her target”s life a living hell. And she would revel in that!
God Almighty Forbid!
And everyone allowed her to get away with that cruel behavior as she was the (most ineffective, unfair, brutal) manager of our family restaurant!
Only my father kept her in check.
By ignoring her shenanigans, and shutting them out.
She was afraid of him.
When +he passed, she went hog-wild, and there was no one to stop her insidious, malignant, psychopathic narcissism!
Then she passed on her cursedness to 2 succeeding generations as she groomed them so, and they fell for the bait! So she lives on in them. She massacred the family, creating an utterly toxic, dysfunctional, cold-hearted family, where love has waxed cold. Frigid.And false narratives are the given, the norm, and upheld with all der our & diligence, in a continuum to demonize ME, the most spiritual member of our family! They think if they all remain United in their false narrative, they can breathe truth into it!
Wrong!
They will only be damned in doing do.
Yet they don’t fear that, don’t dig for the truth, don’t care to correct their ways, and don’t atone fir their sinfulness!
None of that do I accept or uphold. That is of Satan, and I am of God.
I am just so sorry, Slibodanće!
Please, please forgive me, my dear sister!
You are worthy!
My
Mother was the sinner ...
And I am SO eternally sorry I did not have your back more!
She was just so vicious!
All of My Love & Respect, Apologies & Remorse!!
xoxoxo~A
I'm very happy to be retired and away from all that. Excellent video Doctor. Thanks.
James HIgbie hi, exactly what I was thinking 🙂
James....There are everywhere!....
The malignant narcissist sounds just like one or two individuals I’m dealing with. Both females. I have been undermined for years and had my own family turned against me. One has tried to spin it and say I’m the narcissist. The destruction these individuals cause is devastating.
Female malignant narcissists or APD seem harder to spot. I'm not easily intimidated and am open and empathic, so I'm a perfect target. I got fairly good at flying under their radar, but I think they see me seeing through them and it gets ugly quick!
My Aunt too! She recorded our private conversation when I thought she was my only hope, then played it for the whole family. I wasn't told this happened, so I had to stay with her since mysteriously things got worse instead of better. She put me in a horrible position and ENJOYED it! I sensed something was wrong when she introduced me to her close friends then only had horrible things to say about them after. I moved back in with my parents (18 at the time)
She wouldn't allow us to visit our grandparents when they were sick. SHE was in total control. If we came over without her there, my grandparents would get nervous and tell us not to tell her we had visited. They had bruises which she claimed were from helping them, but as an assisted nurse, even if they bruise easily I know I never bruised anyone like that (suspicious places and severe). Then one night she called my Dad to gloat. I overheard it all. She caught my grandparents favorite cat peeing on some paperwork and decided to take revenge. It was below freezing with 22" of snow, she marched the cat out to the creek and threw it in. She told Dad she stood and watched until it stopped coming up for air. My Dad started crying and said "I'm sorry, I can't listen to this anymore," and hung up. I called adult protective services and PETA. They investigated, but my grandparents hid the truth. The cat came back 3 days later, half alive. I'm not sure why the cat came back, but I tried to be part of my aunt's life again recently too. I'm not smarter than that cat.
Learning to lay low accurately describes my childhood. Members of family of origin are highly narcissistic and I learned to become invisible to them in any way possible to mitigate the toxic effects of their abuse.
You don't get to eat very regular when you grow up this way. You don't have much in the way of clothing either.
I likely already commented on this brilliant video topic and presentation. But this is my daily life in my very dwelling. I was going to attempt to leave and due to my level of disability there’s nowhere for me to go. So I just stick. But my heart breaks daily and I wish to disappear rather than go through this any longer. I wish I would have seen signs many years ago, and tried harder then before I became disabled. My heart goes out to everyone in this position.
Kimberly Creator,You got a lovely smile 😊
Canadian Mum,You got a lovely smile 😊
We shouldn't feel sorry for people like this.They are fully aware of what they are doing and they enjoy it.
Exactly
So true!!!
We may feel sorry for them because we may feel it wasn't in their control of being made that way. But you are right we have free will even if your makeup leans a way
Had a relationship with on of these predators... example: he left me in a rainforest, screaming for my life. I will never forget that terrifying incident.
@@maryswobodapishney7559 That’s fucked up.
Thank you Dr. Grande! I hung on every word. This describes my ex to a T.
One time, when he was threatening to bash my head, he picked up a glass vase and held me down and held the vase above my head. But I guess it wasn't quite scary enough because he put it down and picked up a giant pair of heavy plumbers pliers instead. Now, that really did scare me to the point I thought I was going to die. The look on his face, I knew he was enjoying my terror.
I've never heard it said that way, but yes, he had a sadistic streak.
A perfectly delineated synopsis!! Perfect for those who project their own conscientiousness onto others, such as malignant narcissists and psychopaths, who have no conscious.
This is how most people get duped by them, by assuming they have a conscience when they don't.
Travel Around With Lesli,You are beautiful 🌹🌷,Hope you are not with a narcissist!
@@jackpetersen7545 ha ha I hope so too 😂
@@LesliWebandMediaSvcsonUA-cam You are welcome.I am Jack from USA 🇺🇸.You?
@@LesliWebandMediaSvcsonUA-cam Which country are you from?
Now I know what disorder my new manager has!! This was a great tutorial. I realize now that my father may be a malignant narcissist. I left home after 19 years of hell. He stalked me for awhile after I left but then I moved to another state and he gave up. I don't know if he is alive. If I counted correctly, he should be 93 years old. He is a multimillionaire. I went 25 years no contact. Dr. Grande is the best! Keep up the good work Doctor.
Since I was raised around too many toxic people, I find psychology fascinating. I had an equine manager from the racetrack tell me that I needed to go to school for psychology. She said I'm very perceptive and knowledgeable when it comes to who is toxic.
This is such an awesome video. I feel I need to listen to it a couple more times. Thank you so much. This is the sort of thing I want to learn and understand more about. I thought gaslighting was making the other person question their reality and their sanity but it makes sense that it is convincing the other person that they are the problem and that there is nothing wrong with the narcissist. That over a long period of time: is what my mother did with me (still to this day). I reacted and reacted and reacted and the more it hurt me the more she'd do it (I still can't help to feel badly triggered). I almost believed it and it has me a little messed up in my sense of self and knowing who I am and my self esteem. Working to heal all that.
iamlight bless your heart ♥️ one day at a time. Youvare unique , amazing and valuable . Keep your head in the here and now and continue to move forward 🌈
Yup, my boyfriend did this to me for a long time and so his family acted like I was the problem. 8 years later im still the only one taking care of our kids. I think that speaks for itself
Yes, these videos are so helpful. IMHO, the longer you are without contact with the narcissist, the more you will heal. Difficult when it's your mom, but essential for your well-being. Hopefully you've achieved much in the past 2 years!
@@leighblacklocke7190 it was my mom too. It wasn’t until she died that I even began to start to heal! I’m a senior now and finally free, but my heart breaks for these wonderful individuals writing here. 🌱
@@Schiffon God bless you with total healing, Pam. I hope these senior years are wonderful for you!
Thank you for pointing out the differences between psychopaths and malignant narcissists. I have been looking for this type of information for one year. Your presentation was excellent! I have observed all of the criteria separated along the lines exactly as you described them.
I see you have met, and accurately described my ex!! Malignant and vulnerable narcissits are the scariest and most dangerous!! One of the best days of my life after escaping was realising I was no longer scared and I was finding joy in my life. If these people cross your path... don't walk... RUN... and fast!!!!😉 Thank you for your awesome videos Dr Grande!🙏🙏🙏
That’s my dad. So many years I wanted to die now I know how strong I am ❤️
Wow! So much information, I'm going to have to watch this again! It wouldn't be the first time I've rewatched one of your videos Dr Grande. ☺
I know I'm late! But i have watched this video at least 4-5 times.
Everything explained my friend / businesses partner perfectly.
Yes they take away your confidence, your reality, they can do anything to get into power, they'll do anything to destroy you if they think you are in their way. Mine was paranoid in that way.
Thankfully I got out of it, even though I almost ruined my career.
This is a spot on description, and there should be no disagreement about their characteristics as described. They are as exactly as described. Very evil, very dangerous and very very sick. After having to deal with 2 such individuals, I can attest to this . People Need To Know....
I also had to deal with one 400 # narcissist guy and a 100# narcissistic woman , It was a nightmare .
I agree with your take much more than with his. I believe that the paranoia is something a malignant narcissist will pretend to have, just like pretending to have OCD... To make it look like they are a victim of their own abusive side and to make their "dark passenger" look like something that is torturing them too and something they can't deal with on their own so they need the compassion of their partner to become healthier. It works well on codependent empathetic partners. Thank you for helping unblur the lines.
Another excellent insight Dr Grande. I agree with you on how best to deal with them, especially in a work setting since I recently experienced attacks from one of them, my concern is that’s how they get to progress within companies, and their destructive behaviour is not only justified in their minds but also on other people’s minds, creating a truly toxic environment. I wish society was better equipped to deal with this, maybe educating managers would be an option? Thanks again Dr Grande.
Thank you for mentioning the chameleon aspect as a component of malignant narssisism...I suspected that.
The strangest part was a complete change of charicature, very different voice tone , the fake smile when answering the door. It's all a stage.
I witnessed this with my boyfriend and was fully grossed out. Some "hood" people would ask for him and his voice would get ghetto. I was like wtf
I was born in a narcissistic family. When there is no problem, these people have to start problems. The way I learned to survive is laying low. They don't see me or hear from me. What is weird is that many people I became friends with were also narcissist. Narcissistic people are everywhere. What I went through with family and friends that are narcissist have made me a loner now. It is hard for me to trust people. I have a wall around myself and this world. These people traumatized me and caused a lot of damage that only God can repair. If anyone shows signs of narcissism it is safe to stay far away from that individual. Stay out of their radar. They are devils.
I can so relate to everything you said in your post. I too enjoy my own company because I've been burned many times and now have trust issues as well.
I think you have given the most detailed and accurate descriptions ever of my experience of this topic.Large family consisting of the malignant matriarch who has made 3 adult offspring codependant.The golden one,the invisible one,the one who has psychopathic traits.I was warned by a previous neighbour but even though I had knowledge of a male narcissist,it's much worse when there are so many out to cause harm.They present as pillars of the community at first but instinct made me feel uncomfortable in their presence.I was left alone the first year as I was seen as a good babysitter for a poor relative of theirs who had developed memory loss.After months of helping out, I was warned by another neighbour that if the relative who was elderly were to trip up in my home,I could be sued and I was advised the family had history in that area.As soon as I reduced contact,bad things started to happen.Neighbour nearby was renting and multiple complaints made to their landlord in attempts to get them moved.A new neighbour had dared to try to stand his ground over a dispute with them and hours after each upset one of his cats would return home and not wake up again.They put their home up for resale and left.Then as they were running out of targets,it was my turn.The narcissist manipulated a family friend by playing the victim and blaming everything they had done to us and reversed it as if we had done it to them.They were overheard planning how I was to be set up with a complaint that would warrant a visit from community police.Safe to say that it backfired badly for the malignant narcissist and friend. If you get the better of them you will be punished.One of my cats had been sitting on the footpath and a van had mounted the sidewalk and crushed her.The culprit had hidden at the bottom of the avenue til all dispersed and I waited alone and saw them drive past at 60mph in an attempt to avoid recognition,but they failed.The second poisoned 6mths later,on cctv which we had to install.What I don't understand is why the great number of flying monkeys believe the narcissists pathological lying. Surely the fact that trouble is wherever they are must make them doubt that one person has constant conflict but it's never their fault.You are absolutely spot on when you mentioned that there is little chance of resolution. We attempted to calm things down after an attack by one of the narcissists male relatives against our person.It was a total fail as when we hoped the eldest daughter might cooperate we found she nodded to the narcissist to move near my husband and shouted into her phone ,yelling get back,get back to make out they were being threatened.We left and next day the Anti social unit contacted us and said an attempt to bring a case against us had been stopped as there was only the sound of them shouting on the recording.Its never ending and you are right again about other neighbours who not wanting to be targeted try to keep low profiles and are too worried to say anything even when one of them witnessed the relatives physical attack on us.So I read and study as much as I can to try to understand this problem.It helps a great deal to listen to your detailed videos.On the plus side a lengthy bombardment has changed me from a people pleaser into a person with boundaries and a greater understanding of how to live life.
You have a calming voice , I enjoy learning more about these subjects and mainly listen just before bed , your vids seem to help my sleep issues too 🙂thanks.
Yeahhh,.....more than 29 minutes listening to Dr. Grande🙌. This is an excellent video. Thank you very much doc. I have learned again some new good interesting stuff😃
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Dr. Grande's insights are so accurate! A physician here. My experience with two sisters and ex-brother -in-law clearly on the NBD spectrum plus a covert narc with BPD as well. When you love your partner or in my case my female siblings as such, even with my medical training I was "blinded" by familial bonds to the sad truth of narcissistic abuse. And there is definitely a level of sadistic motivation. Psychology should be taught to students in middle and high school to explain the behavior of sadistic and malignant individuals on the spectrum to emerge in late adolescence and early adulthood. But when you know how they are wired, they seem to be reading from a script.
I called out a narcissist in front of a supervisor by laughing at him. Shocked myself when i did so. He transferred to another department and gives me hateful looks when our paths cross.
Liking the longer videos. Very informative. Thanks Dr. G hope your having a great weekend =)
Divorce or quit or go gray rock (lay low) in the workplace. Just get away from them if you are able. Mine told me he had no Hope with a big "H" to ever change. I think that is the truth. A good analysis!
I agree, but it’s difficult to go Gray rock on the job because they seek you out.
This describes my father and my sister perfectly. My father has passed away and the world became a better place when he did for me, my sisters and my mom, but now my sister displays the same behavior as my father did. I didn't really recognize it until you described it in this video. Luckily, I have gotten away from her and we no longer are in communication and I have felt so much better since. I love my sister, I want the best for her, but I can't continue to be around her,as degrading as she is to me. So, thank you for your videos. I learn a lot from them.
Sherri Lynn,You deserves better 🙏
Thankyou Dr. Todd for the time and energy u put into these talks...u deserve to b compensated on patreon...you're AMAZING !
Thank You for referring to Otto Kernberg, who defined narcissists as people with a total lack of empathy in his, for as far as I can recall, Borderline Conditions and Pathological Narcissism (1975); that Marie-France Hirigoyen would mention in her, on workplace and family bullying, groundbreaking book Stalking The Soul (1998) wherein she described the narcissist as having no existence of his own. In my opinion Your scientifically constructed point of view on the matter is more nuanced and more helpful than Kernberg's take on the continuum between NPD and ASPD/Psychpathy. I don't know how You do that, but it's like You're transforming psychological theory into mathemathical detail, and I've never quite heard anything like it. I'll have to be a bore and say I must listen a lot more to your channel before giving either positive or negative feedback on what you're indeed saying or chances are I'd make myself look a very silly layman. I hope all that made sense:D
Excellent! My brother has ASPD and my dad was sadistic, so I’ve been interested in this my whole life.
I know people who have many of these traits. It's creepy how this video lists traits and behaviours I hadn't even considered in those people before but they have them! Those examples of behaviour are spot on.
Thank you Dr. Grande, you do humanity great service
Although I love your videos and am grateful for your insights, I disagree with your suggestions at the end of this topic. I do not believe that anyone should lay low and allow the narcissist at work (or in a personal relationship) to continue to bully and intimidate. This encourages and perpetuates the problem. If we want to be proactive in handling the issue and preventing further destruction caused by narcissists, they need to be properly confronted and brought to justice. New legislation as well as company rules need to be implemented so that victims can defend themselves and get justice. These individuals are criminals because they have such a devastating impact on other people's lives and wellbeing. A narcissistic boss is a terrorist that threatens the welfare of other workers. I know, because I had 2 bosses who were narcissists, and I, as well as others, developed feelings of anxiety and lived in constant dread of being humiliated and terminated. I will not go into to many personal details, but I believe many people will understand my point. I actually got sick with severe migraines when I worked for the last bully, and I was eventually fired, because I was not "complying" with his outrageous demands. I made the mistake of laying low and not issuing a formal complaint against him, because he was intimidating physically and otherwise. Something has to be done so that these bullies do not continue on their unstoppable course of terrorism.
There is no justice to be had through the legal system, and enacting new laws is even more preposterous, ...no offense intended, just a fact. Handle the malignant narcissist privately.
I agree. Workplaces need to know what it is and take responsibility. There's enough information around and consistent victim impacts from their bullying and cruelty.
I agree with you, but I found it was better to stay out of the way professionally speaking
I'm not saying you shouldn't stand up for your self, you cannot work for someone like that. They cause to much stress sorry you went through that
Been there, done that, Pop. It is a terrible situation to be in!
I give your videos a 10 out of 10. Very helpful , as is your availability explain complex topics in an understandable dialogue . Thank you
I had a "reconciliation" meeting with my bully boss, who charmed his way through the session. There were some clues the counselor missed, for instance he made a statement at the beginning of the meeting that there was "nothing wrong with my work performance", but later said "oh that must be the reason for your poor work performance". But he was so charming, the counselor fell for it. At the end of it, I told the counselor straight- "you don't know this guy, I do. I've worked with him for three years and don't trust him" and that was it!
Brilliantly spoken.. I’m in awe with your spot on explanation.. survivors remorse from a malignant narc.. so well said.
This is a wonderful breakdown of intents, my biggest question on the topic has always been to what extend are they doing it intentionally or is it all a byproduct of protecting their ego. Great perspective!
Sammyjo that was always my main question as well. I still think it can sometimes be both possibly but I’m not an expert 😊
We're all products of our nature and environment eh?
I also question the intentionality of the behavior because, in his case, it ends up hurting him more than the victims. He sabotages opportunities and doesn’t understand why people won’t help him anymore. And of course I tried to explain 😂
At what point , when they murder to get what they want . They no what there doing . Why do we have to always come back to the mental health labels . I was in a relationship with a man like this. He did everthing to break me down and control me. When that didn't work and I said no he tried to kill Me. I belive he had done the same thing before he met me. He wasn't crazy he new and still nos what he's doing. He still stalks me . In random werid ways were it doesn't look like he's doing it. He's very smart. To smart and I actually belive he has got away with murder . I would of been his next victim but I survied . He is now out there doing it again and I no he is I have seen him on the Internet. I don't no if he wants me to see him tho , trying to scare me. I'm not afaird of him I was for a while but it got very dangerous when I started saying no . Please belive me these people are smart charming but very very dangerous. Beware. They should come with a warning sign
My sister has been seeing a psychologist that specialises in personality disorders and trauma, and she thinks our dad was the worst case of a malignant narcissist that she’d ever heard of. I always thought that sounded a little strange, because he definitely had no sense of shame or caring for what anyone thought of him. Whatever he was, it’s probably good that he’s not around anymore.
This description fits perfectly to my dad. No contact. Thank you Dr Grande!
Great explanation in breaking down the differences. Thank you Dr. Grande.
It's the first video where I have noticed you have brought your own values into it and I think that's a really good thing.
I know from an academic point of view a personal opinion counts for nothing, but when it comes to personality and mental disorders I think it helps people like me, who have been and are victims of narcissist, when ones values are confirmed - which is that deliberately hurting others is wrong.
Interestingly enough my mother used to always cut me down when I succeeded and only seemed happy when I was doing poorly.
Jim Jones is a classic example of a malignant narcissist. One could argue that his paranoia was primarily stimulant-induced, but I think he had these traits beforehand. I don’t necessarily agree with the soft application of these terms being applied to the general public. I think that unless it’s problematic, it’s not good practice to attach these terms to average “troubled” people.
Why look to history, you have had a guy on you tv screen every single day since 2016 with all these conditions! You never noticed?
I think Jim Jones was more Borderline Personality Disorder mixed with Sociopathy. He was narcissistic, sure, but it sure wasn't his main trait, IMO. And honestly, for pastors like him, I'd say a form of codependency, as well. They really view their congregations as their surrogate family members.
@@jessiehermit9503 why do you think borderline personality disorder???
You have described meticulously my mother. Every time I cook a nice dinner for us, my mother will find anything to criticize even it’s not there…too this or too that. She then acts to fix whatever her claim is there. I know she really intends to deny my efforts by putting it down, by not approving. She let me know of her demands but she also make their goals unreachable. I have heard of an analogy of the trap playing a slot machine: one keeps trying because one never knows when the reward will come. That is precisely what it feels like in one sense. Except with mother, there is also a sense of not good enough for my mother. Such things just don’t stop there. She will bring the same criticism as a cautionary comment or observation on the next time I cook the same thing, even though the problem was never there to begin with. This is just one exemple of her expectations of me. She does not stick with facts, her stories can change just to make her point. SHE NEVER BACKS DOWN.
The most perfect description I have ever came across.
Dr. Grande- I also hope you can talk about malignant narcissism in the context of romantic relationships. For those who have been affected by those on the low conscience/low remorse spectrum, it's often difficult to characterize the behavior. For me, I've been in a relationship with a someone who's behavior doesn't really quite fit in the "quiet narcissist" category, because he was much more harmful. Factor 2 psychopathy seems to fit, and does capture some of the gaslighting and other characteristics you mention. He seems to fit in the framework you just describe in this video, but I'm very interested to learn how you see the same personality type's behavior playing out in a romantic or interpersonal setting.
I ain't no expert, but I'd say a lot of flattery, induced conversation, and charm up front.
Sounds a lot like my old step dad... Thankful he is not in my life anymore. Again, would love to hear about a narcissistic parent, especially this malignant construct. Also, how to deal with trauma which is largely due to having a narcissist in the family.
My mother is like this. I learned over time that best way to deal with her, from my experience, so take this with a pinch of salt because my strategy may not work for others. But I learned to be just as cold to her as she is to me, meaning that, I simply blank her, but if she gets too into my face, I take a breath and just laugh at her and fall her out on her narcissism, and walk away while she rages. She doesn't like being called out at all.
Excellent analysis Dr. Grande! I have lived with one for over a decade and everything you say is spot on!
Thank goodness for this content.
I have been trying to understand the behaviour of an individual in my work environment, and I have recognised so many of these traits and behaviours - turning on and off the charm and compassion; keeping subordinates off-balance through alternating shallow praise with harsh public criticism and exclusion; cloaking aggression as passion; in the face concerns from leadership, deflecting bad outcomes from their poor decisions onto others and playing the victim when subordinates resign.
Your expert advice has helped me to systematize them cohesively and make some decisions on how to respond moving forward.