Thoughts of a Vulnerable Narcissist | 10 Covert Narcissistic Behaviors & Corresponding Thoughts
10 Ways to Manipulate a Narcissist | (Keeping the Peace with a Narcissist)
- Опубліковано 30 тра 2023
- This video answers the questions: Are they ways to counter-manipulate a narcissist? Are there ways to keep the peace with a narcissist?
There are two types of narcissism: With grandiose narcissism we see characteristics like being extroverted, socially bold, self-confident, having a superficial charm, being resistant to criticism, and being callous and unemotional. Vulnerable narcissism is characterized by shame, anger, aggression, hypersensitivity, a tendency to be introverted, defensive, avoidant, anxious, depressed, socially awkward, and shy.
Narcissistic personality disorder is a Cluster B personality disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. It has nine symptom criteria, five of which are required for a diagnosis.
1: Grandiose sense of self-importance
3: Special or unique
4: Requires excessive admiration
5: Sense of entitlement
7: Lacks empathy for others
8: Often envious
9: Arrogant attitudes or behaviors
American Psychiatric Association. (2013). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed.). Arlington, VA: Author.
Giacomin, M., & Jordan, C. H. (2015). Validating power makes communal narcissists less communal. Self and Identity, 14(5), 583-601. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Jonason, P. K. 1. p. jonason@westernsydney. edu. a., & Fletcher, S. A. . (2018). Agentic and communal behavioral biases in the Dark Triad traits. Personality & Individual Differences, 130, 76-82. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Rentzsch, K., & Gebauer, J. E. (2019). On the popularity of agentic and communal narcissists: The tit-for-tat hypothesis. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 45(9), 1365-1377. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Rogoza, R., & Fatfouta, R. (2019). Normal and pathological communal narcissism in relation to personality traits and values. Personality and Individual Differences, 140, 76-81. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
White, D., Szabo, M., & Tiliopoulos, N. (2018). Exploring the relationship between narcissism and extreme altruism. The American Journal of Psychology, 131(1), 65-80. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 8 798
The weird thing about living with a narcissist is the feeling that you might be the one who's toxic.
transfer of energies, mixed with gaslighting and or trauma bond .
I totally agree, it was always my fault, anything that was wrong in his life was my fault. Even when he assaulted another woman that he married and got us both pregnant at the same time... I pushed him to it by provoking him by the tone of my voice and hes still in jail because I haven't called his probation officer enough... but he can't seem to let me go... but I make him miserable... but he can't seem to stop physically abusing me or any other woman in his life. He stalked my house and my moms house, kicked my moms front door in.. I know it's over but he is still in jail blaming me and saying that he will never leave me alone. I literally had to call the police and get a restraining order and he still has contacted me
Wow, and I thought I had it bad with my narcissistic ex. But that's right. He calls me a narcissist on a daily basis 🤣😂
@Georgia Thomas please make sure you get emotional support and help to get past this.
Anyone who's lived long enough with a true narcissist will never go through it again. You learn quickly what behavior to look for in a person and push them away instantly.
That’s a very nice way of looking at it but it doesn’t apply for me. Narcissistic abuse can happen for years before the victim even realizes what they are dealing with. I can’t speak for anyone else but myself. For me, I keep finding myself in relationships with narcissists. I attract them. They are sneaky and play games with your head and your heart. I might see things , hear my intuition, but then for one reason or another I’m convinced that I’m off base. It’s the nature of the abuse to keep me confused and in the dark.
@Evalisa Bowers you need to understand the behavior and also how your behavior enables them and how they manipulate you. You need to study their behavior so you recognize it in others. It doesn't apply to you only if you are incapable of learning.
@JB8 I don’t know if you meant that to come across this way or not.. but of course I am capable of learning. You had me listening until you insulted my intelligence. I have been educating myself about narcissism. And the reality is that I a lot of disorders and extenuating circumstances can look like narcissism to the untrained eye. We can’t just go around diagnosing people. But what I was basically expressing was how I keep attracting narcissists like a moth to a flame. I can only guess why that is happening. I need a professional to actually diagnose me instead of some random internet person who seems to want to tell me that I am incapable of learning… also you sound like you’re victim shaming. There’s just so much wrong here
My first red flag incident with a recent narcissist was me having boundaries. They took boundaries in a negative way because they don't like when people have them.
Yep cause they want to and will cross them (boundaries) every chance they get when you let them.
Care to share some details? I'm curious
@Miwa I was going to comment that the same just happened with me and a newish friend.
She was a time manipulator, which i am very familiar with from previous run ins with Narcissists and sociopaths.
For just one example, Every lunch date gets moved, her needs for get-togethers became erratic and if we had plans to spend time, based on my idea, she would come then only stay for a few moments... this was after only being friends for a few months. So, I told her that I needed to make plans that stick and keep a schedule that allows me to share a car with my son. I did this to test her after picking up on the red flags.
Sure enough, the very next lunch we had planned (to celebrate a work victory on my part.) She called the day before wanting to "pivot" to just an hour before, she said her work was just too important to be there on the time planned and completely lost it when I firmly said I could keep the origional plan but, especially because I didn't have access to transportation at the time.
She tried to text debate and get super petty about me not caring enough about HER Needs, and when told her to stop and we could discuss it in the future, she just got hyperbolic. So I broke it off as friends and 'canceled' the work we were collaborating on.
It is very interesting to watch an otherwise intelligent person with a lot going for them, turn into a complete toddler over something so simple as setting one boundry like keeping plans.
@lizbunya I agree.
@Miwa I won't go into great detail but I set a boundary, they didn't like that so they tried to intimidate me by giving me the death stare and then I decided to not associate with them anymore and they tried to pull several unsuccessful manipulative tactics.
I love how he brings up the fact that sometimes you can't avoid the narcissist because they are your boss or your co-workers. In today's age, you will often encounter narcissistic people in every social setting, so going no contact is not the solution.
I agree in business you can definitely find yourself squeezed between narcissists but, grey rocking like he is describing here- will help. And then look for an exit pronto.
Bo contact is just one of the manny tool you can use, its not a universal tool that works in every situation. Sometimes it just comes in handy.
True, but how do we live life surrounded by these soul sucking parasites?? Any suggestions, please share. Because I’m facing the same problem, if I go no contact with everyone, I’ll basically be living under a rock. Guys any suggestions, with least damage to self are appreciated.
Ouch. That's hurts
@msredcurtains ouch. I am not like that.
“SOMETIMES IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS YOU JUST NEED TO SURVIVE” 😭😭😭 someone finally gets it❤️ some of us have no way out😔
so sorry Jessica 😔
You're not wrong, TY for that most necessary comment. 🧡
I agree. Manipulation is not the way to go. You have to study their behavior, be aware and then make plans to remove yourself from them. Work on yourself instead. Try to understand why you became the narcissist target in the first place. That is what I did. I am narcissist FREE! Good luck!
There is no "Peace" WITH a narcissist. However there is a "PEACE" WITHOUT a narcissist. You do not negotiate with the devil !!!
I'm happier without my sister or brother in my life. When I spend time with them I am miserable. They are true narcissist's.
I see we all come to the same conclusion in the end.
@Sadie Stoltzfus Same here with my brother. I’ll bet those pricks call you “disloyal” and crap like that just to convince themselves they’re not abusive
@RoboTurkeyNinja I'm the youngest of four children. My oldest brother is now seventy and I'm 54. Our mother is 92. He expects me to be the one to do things he could and should be doing like say going with her to the Dr. etc. My mother is not the typical helpless little old lady. She drives, takes care of her own bills,. And takes care of her own house. She also can be a pain in the ass bitching all the time about politics etc. She has no serious health issues. Anyhow my brother states I am jealous of him. States I take advantage of my mother.On and on. He also tries to boss me around. And I haven't spoken to him since 2013. He does this by telling my mom "get Sadie to do this". Get her to do that. And I don't which pisses him off more. I could go on but I could write a damn novel. Take care and Merry Christmas.
The list is a very helpful survival kit for children stuck with narcissistic parent(s). It's painfully ironic that many here are unable to think beyond their own situation..
In my opinion, the best way to deal with a narcissist is to take from them your attention. Conflict can not exist without our participation.
Yes! A key part of Grey Rocking isn't just shutting off our external reactions to them, it is redirecting our attention to what is healthiest for us, and letting them go without their permission, approval, or discussion.
Thats very true. I live with an narcissist and over time ive seen how much they are affected when I dont pay attention to them and how in a subtle way I completely dissociate and not care at all about anything they do since everything they do is calculated.
Yes! When our own ego needs certain outcomes or reactions or behaviors from others we cannot be free
I lived with a brother who was a narcissist who was enabled by our mother. I learned that it was best to ignore him. But even that lead to negative outcomes for me because he began to focus more in me. He would find ways to spy on me and lie about me and try to get me in trouble. He became obsessed with me. Physically tried to overpower me in subtle sexual ways. I eventually had to plan to move out of the house right after graduation from high school to avoid all this. Which meant that I had to go to work immediately and missed out on a couple free rent college years that my father was trying to talk me into. Eventually had to confess that I had to move out because of my brother and since he had power over them and would never kick him out I had to leave. I could never tell my father all the awful things he was doing to me because he would probably kill my brother and my brother might eventually kill him.
My motto is this... when I want to treat the narcissist the way they treat me, don't. This stuff is so draining. I'm done. In the middle of the reverse discard.
As the guy in the video said, this is for people who are in the midst of the narccisisst grasp who aren't able to get away yet.
They want your energy. They can get the gift of my silence.
Being with my ex narc for the past 6 yrs. made me observe this very pattern. I think they wanted to feel very important in a way that is disturbing. Instead of building trust with their intimate partners, they destroy the trust that they built with you (in that case lying when they tried to put you in their pedestal). Once they have a committed partner, they can’t stand being loved authentically by one person. Instead they go on and prey on other women that is susceptible to their love bombing. My ex narc was a compulsive pursuer in a relationship. He would go back and forth to the women he were involved before or try to meet women in complicated situation so that going public isn’t an option while having you as their main supply. In the end they destroy the very person that loved them. They are like toddlers testing your love for them. Showing and telling them you love them isn’t enough, they will cheat on your face to make you feel inadequate even if you are more than they deserve. They want to test your love for them so they keep hurting you and when you have enough of their abuse, you leave. Then they tell you, ‘you never loved me because you abandon me’. Well in fact it’s their actions and narcissistic behavior that made you leave or in other cases they discard you and will give silly reasons of the discard. Mine would use, ‘she’s crazy’, ‘she’s a nega-star’, ‘she insults me’, ‘she cheated on me’ et al. So with this pattern of infidelities and emotional abuse (who knows what else) it’s better to walk away. I did walk away and is now rebuilding my life with our daughter. We are struggling financially because I’m not earning enough to provide for my daughter but now we get to laugh and bring with us sunshine every day. No lies, no abuse and no fake love. We only live once, forgive yourself and move forward but never forget the lesson that narc abuse taught you. That is to respect yourself to walk away from what’s hurting and destroying you. That you deserve a life of solitude, happiness and love. Hugs*** :) Additionally I hired a private detective *Metaspyhub@gmail. com* . Once I knew what the narc was up to, it got easier to get over that lying, cheating, sack of doo doo, loser. I didn’t need closure from the narc, I paid for it. Best money I EVER spent!
omg everything you said is so true, especially the "They are like toddlers testing your love for them."
It's more than a year for me. I am still not fully recovered from the damage. I keep replaying what happened because I didn't have any closure, and I am still recognizing more and more lies I wasn't able to look through back then. She loved to make me jealous, talked about the plentitude of previous partners. I unfortunately missed the biggest warning sign and that was how horribly she talked abour her ex-partners. All of them were psychopats or incompetent. She only ever admired the one who was a pilot and actually was the only one who broke up with her. Before me.
👏 bravo. Any story of escaping an abusive narcissist deserves an ovation. Mine destroyed decades of my life. Almost 50, and I'm just feeling normal again
I love this checklist of problem-solving these relationships. I was in a narcissistic abusive relationship and asked my therapist for a year if I was a narcissist because I managed by using manipulation as a coping mechanism. Didn't realize it was ok.
I now realise I've been doing most of these to handle my narcissistic mother. The hard part is not to laugh or be disgusted at their fantasies.
My dad did all this with my narcissist mom for years, telling her she was always right, apologizing when she attacked him & flattering her all the time (especially as he was getting older and had lost all stamina to fight her). What he gained was a major depression, alcoholism and cancer, trying to keep it all inside for so long.
So very sad.
Yasaman Shaltiel he would have thought that things will change someday....his positive thinking didn't work
Sounds like how my mom was
So sad. I am sorry. Best to just get away if at all possible. Not healthy for one's mental health.
My dad di that too. Now he's 59, and takes the role of narcissistic enabler on top of developing severe traits of NPD too (they've been together for almost 40 years). He hides his sadness by distracting himself on social media and stuff. Never spend time just thinking.
Stay strong, you're not alone in this at least. Wish you all the best in your journey & healing ❤
Thank you for changing the term from manipulation to coping with the narcissist 🥺 as a victim of his, I couldn’t even think of manipulating him. I feel like the bad one.
I was friends with a narcissist. Always painting themselves as the victim, and also as a great person who does stuff to help others. After a while the facade fell apart and what was left was the truth. Don’t trust anyone who has a tendency to tell people and act like they’re the victim, boo hoo wa wa. 1) that person has no sense of accountability and inner power or 2) they might be a narcissist.
Sounds very familiar.
I love when Dr. Grande cracks himself up. "Less disgusting" is how I want to be! We can (must) get away from "romantic" partners, but these tips will always come in handy for dealing with certain work and family folks. Thank you!
For those people who have no choice but to interact with the narcissist this advice is very important. Disarming them constantly is the best advice because they are honey badgers if you ever try to take them on.
If you need to manipulate anyone to be happy or survive then you stayed too long in that relationship. Don't lower yourself to manipulation of another human being. Just make your own life and fill it with positive people. You cannot make a human change.
For those of us who already stayed too long, the tips are not about changing the narc but managing to survive around them without intoxication.
These are the exact words that help very few to no one.
that's why he said it's for situations you CAN'T avoid. Like a co-worker, an ex you have kids with etc. It's tips to help maintain the peace while you are around them.
I think these exercises are for people who are in situations with narcissists where they can't run yet, but need to keep the peace for a certain amount of time in order to live.
The planning stage, I agree
Like the workplace
Yea, and like a family member… unfortunately
Yep. Agreed. Then leave ASAP!!!!
Be excited and not disgusted by narcissists is something I find soooo difficult.
"Yeah. I'd never thought of it like that before." They fall for that one every time.
“We never would have figured this out without you.” Is another one.
It’s like dealing with a child.
@[REDACTED] like talking to a gaping void of nothingness, it’s utterly insane LMAO there is no core of rationality
My best friend was a narcissist and once I realized this, I also realized she was done with me but had manipulated me in our friend group to be her "saviour" in a way, so she was trying to get me to stop being friends with her so she could keep face in the friend group and possibly get some sympothy. I utilized the second and third tactics of complimenting her when she would push me (i.e. telling her what a good and supportive friend she was for criticizing me), and I also criticized her (just little things like, "I think the roast is slightly overcooked, but it's good enough) in slight moments when people were around and she would flip into these unbridled rages that left everyone wondering what just happened. Now I technically used these things to manip[ulate her into ending our friendship...which worked, but I did end up losing a lot in the process.
This video made me self aware I’m a vulnerable narcissist, I realised retrospectively recently that when I was younger I was incredibly narcissistic (which I wasn’t self aware of at the time), and because of this video I now know I was a vulnerable narcissist. I’m a lot less narcissistic nowadays, but there’s still an undercurrent of it to my personality. Do you have any advice on how I can fully overcome my vulnerable narcissism?
Luckily in spite of being a vulnerable narcissist I think I have the ability to:empathise, accept criticism, practice self awareness,and not project too much on to others. Which has lessened the severity of my narcissism but I’m looking for more ways to heal ❤
Good wishes to you Kaddy. Idea: Find a counselor locally (probably covered by insurance if you have it) running a Dialectic Behavior Therapy (DBT) Group. You can grow and improve and heal and deserve all the rewards of doing so! 🙏🏻
@Chelsea Johnston Thank you for telling me about this❤️
Same. I had a TOUGH dad and upbringing which helped promote an unhealthy lack of self worth. I got picked on a lot and was super quiet and insecure. I allowed myself to become bitter and lash out at criticism. After all, I was harder on myself than anyone else could be so I didn’t need peoples’ critical feedback. At some point I became hyper critical of others.
After watching this dive into narcissistic behavior, I feel that I am probably narcissistic. Just being honest. I think insecurity and lack of self esteem is quite likely a form of narcissism. It certainly seems to manifest itself as narcissism. Who knew?
I s’pose self awareness is a start. I don’t think therapy is necessarily the answer. To me, therapy represents tactics to help deal with bad behavior. What needs to happen is a wholesale change of heart. Putting bandaids on symptoms is not a cure. For me, there’s a deeper issue that has to be exposed and dealt with.
Thank you for your thought provoking, intellectual perspective on the subject. I enjoy your channel.
@Eyedentity What you’re saying about insecurity and lack of self esteem being the origins of narcissism is so true. That’s how my narcissism started, and sometimes I think narcissism is the minds attempt at trying to self treat an insecurity wound; And then the obsession with trying to treat that wound makes you a pretty self-serving, and subsequently self absorbed individual. I’m planning to get therapy but tbh my vulnerable narcissist tendencies, as well as my desire to perceive myself as “holier than thou” to like myself is probably something that’s never gonna go away. All I can do is try to manage it so it doesn’t become self-destructive or destructive to others.
@Katty Ude Yeah. I get it. I’m not consciously bitter towards my dad. I love him and have made peace. The scars are there though. The tendencies are there. It’s not his fault. It’s how I dealt with it. That part was my choice. You’re right, though, it’s probably never going to go away but a good start is self awareness and an attempt to treat it. Treating it, for me, is to get under the surface to the root and not to just treat symptoms.
I'm deadass laughing my ass OFF! My dad is a narcissist and everything you're saying would work so well on him without any question, it's hilarious 🤣But the one issue is he'll get mad if I don't talk to him for the entire day every day if I started to compliment him, so.. You're right about this not working long term
When dealing with a narcissist, record every thing that they say. Trust me, you'll need the proof later on.
Yes. Yes yes. It may feel like breaking a boundary. But your gaslit self will appreciate that you recorded. Your potential lawsuits will appreciate that you recorded. Just record on your phone when interacting. Email it to yourself with a super short description of the convo. And don't listen unless you need to.
I wish I knew this tactic.
Listen to it when you weaken your resolve, when you begin to doubt yourself about your newfound understanding of what's happening in the relationship. Just replay one or two of those conversations-- and INSTANT RESOLVE! One review and SHAZAM you're back in the insanity-- fantastic device to prevent backsliding
Totally doing this now!! Guess I've been doing it, found several recording a few years old. Cant believe I put up with this crap so long!!
It's exhausting to keep giving a narcissist what they need to not flare up. I'd rather stay completely away. But if I have to be around it, these are great tips.
This describes the survival dynamic I had with my mom for most of my life. She is a vulnerable, communal narcissist. I really appreciate your videos Dr Grande. They are helping me identify and come to terms with a lot of the toxicity I had to ignore during my childhood. I used to feel ashamed that this is what I came from. But it's not like I chose my circumstances. Breaking down really emotionally charged experiences into facts and patterns helps me process it down to where I can think without reacting to the memories in anger, shame, or resentment.
Well done ,sister...and stay strong. A 54yr old male in Aussie....who himself,has forgiven ME...and not in self denial....my mother has the severe mental health issues...of a COVERT-Narcissist. Sadly...i cant spk to her now....she still sends txt like>> "i dont Deserve this !!".."a mother has the Right, to know her son is alive"...etc.(more 'guilt trips for me....)..not Now !!!
Exactly, its not like we chose our childhood circumstances, yet trying to explain those events to my mother now......is Impossible. (She already has painted her 'True reasons of why,these bad events happened. My version and actual truth....Denied, Ridiculed,and attacked.
I hope you can stay on talking terms.....but at 50, and still being treated like a 'u must have fried ur brain ,idiot~ Demonizations. I finally realized....a complete STOP and Break Contact...the only way. At least now.....i have 'mental, psyche o logical....Peace. (-_-).
Good Luck....love and peace always.
* yes...forgiving ONEself First.....is the hardest. We have to contemplate our own morals,self esteem-egos, 'Pride'.....let go of the bad...hang on to the good.....and have far more compassion,empathy and Patience...with others. ONE has to fix,re-invent continually in this everchanging world......and opinions MUST change...if truth is exposed.
* my own "Death of the Ego" ...was helped by wks in hospital beds ....contemplating my life,and how i would survive now i couldnt work. I realised i was my own worst enemy with many of my thoughts ....just 'urban legend/ community or cultural tradition'..actual judgements.
.......eg~ i work hard, ur a lazy dolebludger/drug addict/+
@Dean Hall 🙏🏽💜💪🏽
That was really informative, I really found that quite interesting.
I’m really curious as to the nature of the potentially disturbing fantasies and dreams that the narcissist may have. Might they be horrific, or is it really more disturbing in the sense that they’re outrageous and unrealistic?
I’d also like to learn more about the distinctions between the vulnerable and grandiose narcissist. I’ll be looking through your back catalogue of videos to see what I can find in that regard.
Thanks for the video.
I once had a narcissist boss, who made my life hell. I realised that I had to get out of the job or I would become seriously sick, both physically and mentally. I used these manipulation techniques instinctively (I had grown up with a narcissist older brother and I had learned it as a way to survive childhood). You feel disgusted with yourself for being dishonest and enabling, but I used it to buy time while I found a way out of the job. It was particularly difficult to get out, as the boss was very wealthy and bought the loyalty of other people in the organisation, and even some of my friends, so I had almost no support from them in a smallish town where he had a lot of influence. The narcissist boss enjoyed my enabling so much that, after I left, he used to ring me out of the blue every now and then to try to lure me back to working for him, choosing times of the day when he thought I would be tired and more susceptible. He was highly intelligent and had studied psychological sales techniques which he tried to use to manipulate me into returning, but fortunately I could see through it.
Whew. I'm glad you picked up on it. All those flying monkeys makes it extra hard.
I love this. New insight into narcissists. Was married to one. Still recovering
Me too. Good luck with recovery.
I’m still married, I want out but hel take the house I bought before we got married. He won’t work or do anything, his true colors are coming out. I’m stuck and trauma bonded with CPTSD . AHhhhhhh
good luck . the hardest is to leave
My son was married to one. Hopelessly in love. But whatever he did was never enough. He was never good enough. She separated him from his side of the family. She gaslighted him, she lied to him, she cheated on him. All of it was his fault. He finally shot himself.
"Best revenge for a narcassist is cut the contact, when you start to heal, and when you succeed. Move on and be great."
Your right thank you ❤️
@Siona Pink 2 your welcome
this is impossible if you work with them.
These steps are a guide to show submission to the narcissist, and give up all your dignity in order to please them. It’s not manipulation, it’s not management, and it’s not going to bring peace to your mind. It’s basically giving up and fake your treatment towards them. I was hoping for the “part 2” of the video but it never came.
Totally agree, this was not the advice I was looking for.
Shaming/embarrassing them works. At least enough for them to leave you alone 🙂.
clearly you were never physically abused by a narc
psychologist can't recommend doing ANYTHING that will trigger rage in N ppl since they cannot regulate which N will be physically violent and which will not AND they know that ea victim will be different in their capabilities mentally to hold their own with a N. It's almost as if ea person has to be the psychologist for themselves when dealing w a N. Then, if you are willing to take them on, you will see that to do it effectively your mindset will have to CONSTANTLY be one spiteful, degenerate, deceitful step ahead of theirs. And personally I just don't want to think of them that much, I prefer my freedom. We all have to look at our situations w THESE ppl and hit where they are weakest at the right time. But who can tell you that time? Who can tell you that act? So you have very general blanket solutions that are safe. I can say, from experience, that these solutions worked when I was the N target but the N just turned toward my children then I had to employ my own methods. I have NO REGRETS but I would have if I was not willing to meet him head on taking the mindset that I may go down but I'm bringing YOUR HEAD w me!!
The best way I’ve found to deal with any narcissist is to keep them “contained” in a situation. Think about a playground with swings, slide, merrygoround, sandbox. As long as I keep the narc in the sandbox he or she can’t cause havoc on others in the playground. This is how I manage the situation at work. I’m not trying to beat the narc, but limit their damage to others.
This doctor is spot on!! You have to go along with them, but you have to be completely convincing because they suffer paranoia as well. They can sense if someone is not genuine.
Thank you for this podcast. This is very helpful. I like how you speak about it all with an even handed respect. You are meeting them where they Are in their heads and hearts. This was important for me to understand. Yes, a peace keeping mission why planning my get away plan. Lol I think I will watch this video a couple of times.
Precise and helpful! Thanks for the advice, Dr. Grande. These tactics work like magic with the cluster B folks in my life. I try to avoid ever opening up on a personal level and to stay confident in all interactions. Good video to rewatch as a training tool.
You're fighting a losing battle no matter what you do with them.....just run at all cost
Exactly! I lived with a narcissist for 3 years and lying and praising doesn't work at all. My narcissist boss was the same, he would pick up on fake compliments easily. They are master manipulators, you have to be a bigger narcissist to play this sick twisted game. This is just going to further complicate things and make you feel trapped and less of yourself. How long can a true person carry on a charade? It is draining for me.
Exactly!!!!……this is exhausting…..
Sometimes your option, it is NOT possible. Especially if a young adult who is still dependent on parent; a spouse financially dependent and/or with child; so on.
Life has many many facets not just from our own experiences.
So it’s always helpful and supporting to others, when we allow room to know that there are possibilities that are not available to others.
basically yes. Some techniques may work, but only for some time. You will need all of your self control to get along and avoid conflict and you may succeed for a couple of months, but all the frustration that builds up inside you from this constant effort will make you seriously blow up sooner or later. You're either going to get depressed or explode after a couple of months.
@Deepa Lall So far, 1 yrs., 3 months.
What’s interesting is I’ve employed some of these tactics with my father who is a hardcore narcissist. I was surprised to find out that I came up with some of these tips on my own years ago. I’ve been looking for ways to up my game which is why I’m here lol.
What a kind compliment any man would love. Anyway the first breakuo email said my sense of humor and intellect were what she dessired in me and how truly heartbroken she was. The second email mentjined jokes and various outrageous lies things i just woukdnt say and how awfuk my sense if humor was. What was never mentioned why i was at faukt for her five month affair immediateley beginning after my dad dying. These two emaiks are the only proof i have. The years of abuse people just wounkdnt understand Its as if every time she punched men SHE woukd have a black eye and okaying the victim. The injustice of it makes me sick.
Very informative. I am a nurse and I have to tip toe around patients who come in to do what I need them to do without taking away their control
I’ve watched hundreds of videos on how to deal with the narcissists in my life, and this is hands down the most informative and useful. I appreciate how you included dialogue examples too. It honestly reminds me of talking to a toddler. 😂
Anyway. My hang up is that it feels so insincere to placate these ppl. Even if it’s to my benefit. I know I’m just playing the game but Lord I feel like I’m no better a person if I become a supporter and encourager of their delusions. I need to work through this and appreciate advice from anyone!
Good luck with the search
It seems to me that narcissists are beyond redemption and beyond help. Trying to deal with them is ultimately a futile exercise. Stay away from them!
Well said 👏
No what you do is treat them like they treat everyone else. But worse. You have to be the biggest narcissist you can to them and they will stop and realize how shitty of a person they are. Yes there's some that nothing but a bullet would fix, but majority of the time it will work.
Exactly. Stop wasting your life. Stop entertaining their presence.
Not true. I'm a NDP. I'm changing
Both of my parents are narcissists. This is great. Learned all this growing up. My sister will love this 😂. The disgust is real, and overcoming that is indeed key to proceeding with that relationship. Vulnerable narcissism. One thing to be careful of is that the narcissist may be attempting to play you off of whomever they're complaining about when you choose to play along with who hurt or wronged them. They can try to pull you into their neurotic drama, and will. There is risk, substantial at times. Plz be careful doing any of this. The risks can be profound. Ime it's best to just tell them they have a problem with narcissism, anything else just empowers their negative behavior. Their lack of empathy is key. An ability to "act" is invaluable. Narcissists are less disgusted by other narcissists, which is how the playing along with them helps - they will take you somewhat seriously. Great show
“A narcissist paints a picture of themselves as being the victim or innocent in all aspects. They will be offended by the truth. But what is done in the dark will come to light. Time has a way of showing people’s true colors.”
- Karla Grimes
@Comander Shadow God bless you Hope lifes treating you extremely kindly now 👍🍀🙏
@Evelina thank you and yes, god is sending me good messages for what comes next for me
Usually after one of the two dies. One of my sisters passed away. Her Ex-husband, a minister is a narcissist, convinced the congregation she had mental issues (she did because of him!!) and a horrible wife. He literally stalked her after their divorce. She checked herself into a mental well-being facility and he couldn't access. While there she met someone who was dying, they married. She took care of her wonderful MIL. Later my sister passed. My mom happened to tell me what happened. Sad 😔
They are very sneakie creatures
Unfortunately, I'm in a situation right now, in which I must interact with 2 narcissists. I've been trying to stomach being around them for years, and it never gets easier. Avoiding them or cutting them out of my life has been the only thing that's worked for me. Never let them get control over you. NEVER!
It's crazy I'm a big big strong 6 6 guy, I'm loud just by existing, in an industry with the kind of people who think everything is about their manhood and pride. I use a lot of these tips to come off passive toward (a huge portion of) people I work with who have huge ego problems. It's generally how I avoid any kind of confrontation.
I've been living with my mother for about a year now because I have had some health issues (I am almost 30 now). I have come to realize that she is a vulnerable narcissist and it can be incredibly difficult to live with her at times. She has a complete disregard for other people, unless you can make her feel good about herself. If you show any resistance to how she is doing something, she often flies into a narcissistic rage and comes totally unhinged (if you criticize how she is doing something, or her in any way, she pulls the "I am just worthless, no one cares about me, etc") . Having to move back in with my mother has COMPLETELY changed my opinion of her and I can't wait to get out of here. She is still my mother and cares about me, but I realize now that she is imperfect, whereas before, I thought she was great. She does have some redeeming qualities, but when she thinks she has been slighted, or if you disagree with her in any way, she thinks it is a personal attack. I've learned to just be passive and stay away from any topics we might disagree about. Realizing that she has many narcissistic traits has saved me so much stress.
The problem I find with all of this is that they just get worse. I used to say that one of the narcs in my family went very quickly from gratitude (for what I was doing for her) to expectation (that of course I would keep doing it) to demand (that if I stopped doing it, I was breaking some kind of trust).
I think this was very insightful as to what makes a narcissistic person tick. The tragic thing about the narcissist is that he/she/they are people who have been traumatised so deeply as children that they repress their true emotions so that they can no longer distinguish a genuine feeling. And they do not trust others. Therefore, as the Doctor points out, any interaction is potentially risky. So I can understand why so many choose to go no contact.
I lived with one for 9 years and actually subconsciously did all this to keep the peace. IT IS EXHAUSTING and will drain your lifeforce. Not recommended for longer than extremely short term interaction....
Oh I agree! I had 20 yrs in but was only surviving to help my children & I honestly did NOT know my rights. I knew getting out would be dangerous due to constant threats & it took 4 years in Court to get full custody of my kids & a fair divorce!
Wish I had left long before I did
I've also been using some of these tactics just to try to keep the peace. It's been 20 years and I'm truly exhausted but at least being consciously aware of what I've been doing and learning a few more ways I can smooth things over is incredibly helpful. I'm planning an exit strategy now but it's going to take some time so I agree, these are great for short term interaction but if you extend it beyond a few months or maybe a year it will drain you considerably.
What is lifeforce?
Sounds like very good advice. It really does seem like everyone is a little bit narcissistic, so this advice could work well with a large number of people. We have to pick and choose, though. Like the doctor says, there has to be sincerity. If we're just trying to manipulate them they'll know it.
The most infuriating aspect about dealing with narcissists is that you can’t challenge them. They are not like typical jerks who can be *“put in their place”* - you have to give them their way or avoid them. 😅
Spot on. One trait my husband has, among many, is he is mega, over the top, hyper sensitive to ANY criticism whatsoever. It's maddening because my husband lies. They mostly are minor but still, I hate it, feel used, feel like I'm being played the fool, etc. and no matter how kind or respectful I try to set a boundary when I catch him and show dignity to myself, he blows up and gets extremely angry. He defends himself - basically lies more - then turns it on me, he gaslights me. I hate it. But as I'm getting older, I am surviving better by not challenging him, just taking it. It sucks but the anguish after is worse.
True true. U never have civil conversation
@Chele why haven’t you left him yet? Children? If so and they’re still minors please don’t subject them to the damage having him as a father is causing. My mom had the same problem and decided to run away with me when I was 5. My dad’s a wife-beating narcissist
@darkprince56 Thanks for your reply. I haven't left him for many reasons and one of them is my very strong faith. And yes, I have minor children, which for the most part, my husband is very good to. (Sometimes he does get quite belligerent and exasperating with them but it is only in very small doses) There are other reasons too but for my faith, even tho I am struggling a lot in this marriage, God's hand is in this and He has greater things ahead for this. Jeremiah 28:11
When I have to be around my narcissistic mother, I’ve learned to just not react to her. I’ve learned since I was a child to turn off my emotions in a way. Which is good around her but I’ve been learning that I don’t need to do that for everyone so that’s been hard to deal with
Would you support being able to alert about a coworker (ideally including those in leadership roles) on the basis of narcicistic traits? And then, ideally, they would ger professional evaluation and a probation period…and get fired if they fail to show adaptivity for their role. 😍
One of my biggest fears is encountering a narcicist at work higher than me in the hierarchy.
I’ve been doing this for several years but there is one HUGE disadvantage to this and that is that they will want to contact you through text or phone calls to have you feed them their supply. It’s never enough for them and imagine having 8 narcissists blowing up your phone demanding an ear daily!! It gets old!
RUN! trying to be on a narcissists good side is so draining and demeaning
Gigi Gerst,your lovely smile can make the news
Right? You don't even get anything by being on their good side. Just cut them out all the way!
It's like wearing a kick me sign on your forehead
@Abcde fuck I member them days fuck that one day had enough and told myself let’s see how strong my resilience actually is
I agree with all the comments about avoiding them as much as possible, and also think it’s great to have some tips for dealing with them when we can’t avoid (work, etc). Most of what I’m hearing here seems to fall under the heading of treating others with empathy and kindness.
My son said to me, "It's really more a description of a fundamentally bad person than it is a diagnosis." I think I would have to agree. The theory is that they could get better, but no one actually knows because there cannot possibly be anything wrong with them. Why should they seek help?! However, their victims certainly keep good therapists in business. I went no contact. Amen.
"It's really more a description of a fundamentally bad person than it is a diagnosis." WOWWWW... whew this is so spot-on, girl.
Many thanks, this was awfully helpful 🙏🏻 Now, judging from my own developed behavior, I can identify my mother as a vulnerable narcissist.
You do a better job at explaining it than I could !
Woke up to my husband being a “vulnerable narcissist” learning that was helpful. This is an absolute nightmare situation.
IMO, the best way to deal with a narcissist is to be emotionally healthy and self reliant. Once they realise you have healthy self esteem and are not very susceptible to manipulation, they will quickly move on to an easier target.
Of course, there might be situations when you're in a narcissist's way (e.g. at work) and then you need to be very careful to protect yourself.
Yes. Manipulation should only be done to survive whilst extricating yourself from the situation at the earliest available opportunity. After that the goal should be strengthening your own worth and boundaries and never significantly engaging in the first place.
@Goldilocks my thoughts exactly. This sounds like enabling them. This would work to keep peace until u leave.
This is well and clearly said.
I totally agree with this,on point.
I've always known it wasn't me. This started long before I had a mean or cruel bone in my body. And yes, I have a very difficult time hiding my expression of shock and disgust ... And I'm well versed in dealing with my mother's radical and confusing behavior and horrific treatment. I try to love her from a distance, only spending at most 15 minutes around her at a time, and many days/weeks in between exposures. I have PTSP, Bipolar Disorder, Acute Anxiety, Clinical Depression and ADHD from all the abuse and neglect. I'm in treatment and therapy, have been consistently for over 35 years. I still can't tolerate too much of the wildly erratic and demonstrative attacks. It has a very negative and debilitating effect on me for anywhere from 24 to 36 hours at the least. I'm simply not equipped to cope with that frequently. I would become a danger to others and myself. I've got a pretty good handle on my diagnoses via medication management and therapy ... So long as I'm not subjected to abusive treatment and wild changes in attitude toward me ranging from insanely callous to overt and preposterous praise which is easy to see is just a play at manipulation or gaslighting. I no longer fall for those polar opposite attitudes and verbal admonishments. However, she does catch me off-guard about every 2 to 3 months ... That's when we both know a several day or week break needs to happen in order for her to remain physically safe. I become triggered and react with violence very quickly, long before any words will come from my mouth. I've been violence free for a long while now and I have no intention of allowing myself to behave like a wild animal. Any time I've reacted with physical force, I feel horrible about myself, criticize my core being mercilessly, and attack myself emotionally and mentally, on occasion violently to punish myself for allowing someone to cause me to lose control, abuse myself for behaving as if I have zero self control and deserve to be exterminated. It's such a mind-twisting, emotionally decimating state of being. My body will squim around of its own accord, I begin to develop what appears to be a physical tick, spastic movements I cannot bring to a halt, stutter and confuse my speech, become overwhelmed with the slighted chore or task ... It's a soul-crushing way to exist.
I don't hate her, in fact I've tried over and over, countless times to repair this relationship ... It's just not possible.
I have no father, many of my family members are clearly unstable, however do not discuss or even attempt to comfort or relate to one another about our individual struggles. It's just a den of poor interpersonal function, lies, shame and guilt slinging. Please believe, I've been trying by myself to change these sad and alienating dynamics to no avail. No one is interested in facing it, getting help and learning to be better to and for one another. It's heartbreaking, frankly.
Thinking of my own recent situation, just leaving, even though I took a huge financial loss was best. Complimenting when they can be so abusive? The thought, “it would gag a maggot” comes to mind.
I feel this. I am incapable of that level of theatrics .
it literally brings me physical pain, but it's worth it to avoid a delusional tirade.
Thank you for this. I know a daughter, let's call her C (third of three). A (the firstborn) sadly passed away at 23, after a lifelong terminal illness. C is using these some of these tactics by acting as a 'flying monkey' or 'dancing monkey' - but only acting. She is baiting the mother into financial gain by pretending she wants to have children (which is one of the mother's primary goals, she wants to be a grandmother to look good and post more Instagram photos). The C daughter has no genuine intention of having children.
Unfortunately, B (the middle child, primary young carer to A) is very authentic, and a scapegoat as a result - constantly punished through financial abuse, neglect and social slander by both the mother and the remaining sibling. The complexity of that level of abuse is...astounding to me.
I find setting boundries that are win win helps. Like giving the narc notice if change is coming because they hate not being in control. So if you give them heads up on something it helps them feel like they have some control. Meet them half way if you can.
You have the most professional explanation, and logical ways to handle a narcissist, that simply put, just can't be walked tossed aside, and walked away from. Thank you for being there, with a voice of reason, and clarity, when I needed it the most. If I can ever help you in any way, do not hesitate to ask. Have a blessed day. Peace out for now, Flyingsun.
The best way to keep peace with a narcissist is avoid interaction as much as possible. Most importantly, this preserves one's inner peace by eliminating an unwelcome stressor.
It’s always good to Avoid Trouble when possible. “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!”
But then they get mad cause u aren’t glorifying them
Dr Grande videos are always filled with unoriginal comments that all say the same thing but have little depth.
Dr Grande, it’s astounding of all channels/creators/content on UA-cam addressing narcissism- you’re the one nailing my specific question on the head! I was unable to word it properly+ accurately. This video popped up within an hour of contemplating it (thinking of ways to phrase the question) and before much searching. Thank you for knowing your sub’s minds + hearts, and current, hot button, events as they unfold.
These advices are so helpful. There so many of these people in my circle in different levels of narcissim. Thank you Dr. Grande.
Wow... Exactly what I needed to hear 👏 🙌 🙏🏽. You have given me a Exactly the answer I have been searching for a long time. Thank you very much Dr Grande.
Thank you so much. This piece of information was so very important to me. I am in a family of narcissists. I came to know about narcissism just a month ago, but being a narcissistic survivor ally life, even without knowing and even without meaning to I had been using narcissistic fluffing a lot. And then I used a strategy which blew my mind when I consciously recognized it. I had felt like I was in a lake of several sharks. So I fluffed up the biggest great white shark and stuck to it like a sucker fish to escape from the less powerful narcissists in my family. And all this without even knowing what narcissm is.
Thank you so much for this! And your explanation in the beginning - so awesome!
I feel that manipulation as a way of dealing with a narcissist is repulsive and actually makes them worse. I personally will avoid them, having been abused for years by one, I learned the best relationship with one, is a zero relationship with them.
Perhaps a parent, without the option of abandoning a disordered child, could get some peace and protect their own mental health using the techniques. If it's your co-worker or neighbour etc, wouldn't this be enabling and set them up, along with the people around them, for a bigger narsistisic crash and fall out at some point later on?
Try having your dog that you bought named and trained stolen from you, and your only option to get him back is manipulation, you wouldn't say absolutely anything so you could to get your son/daughter/dog back?
@Test Drive Nutrition i think that she is talking about a general rule of thumb.
@TK someone with a vulnerable adult child and divorced narcissistic spouse who has guardianship, one has to figure ways to deal.
Yeah I think this advice is good for a more remote narcissist in your life like a boss who has to be dealt with but you’re not personally close or intimate with. I would always try to avoid engaging even to the extent recommended here with the family narcissist. I get through with grey rock as best I can on holidays etc., when having to deal. Of course no contact is best. There no practical fix for toxic personalities just have to navigate the situation as best you can and get away ASAP and stay away or keep engagement to absolute barest minimum where possible. 🥰
It's super nice to hear some viable solutions. Thank you kindly. I will be watching this again and literally writing these things down. I don't know if I could even apply this but I'm going to try. I know that it's no recompense for my pain and injustice to tell him the truth about himself, however I also try to do this in text so he can go back and read it again. Idk. I'm an INTJ female so he probably thinks I'm a narcissist, which most people think a self sufficient woman is. I struggle with this area so much also because of cptsd or ptsd whichever it is. Very taxing
My husband, I think, could be a "socio-narcissist," according to the characteristics I've read about online. He is very old, and I think it's just a waiting game at this point to see who outlasts who.
I wish you some sweet years of joy and freedom ahead. You deserve to savour life and be free.
Rooting for you to last the longest!
sad. hope you DO outlive him. but it's torture to care for a dying narc, that's for sure! luckily, my ex just stopped taking his seizure meds (out of stubborness) so had endless seizures for a day until he died (on hospice, at a care home, age 54!!!!) i always figure, he went out with "fireworks" in his brain and body, like endless electroconvulsive treatment, which he apparently "needed" or was "given" by God. now he only haunts me in memory, in my head, i still hear his mean comments to me. so weird to watch old movies of us, and see him criticize me and say mean things to me. my reality is pretty weird, but everyone's is, who has survived narc abuse.
Very good advice . When dealing with a narc in the workplace , it is important not to loose your cool , and stay neutral . They are very sick and vindictive .
My father is a self-made (college dropout) financial advisor inflating his grandiosity. I apply what I like to call “Reid’s appease technique!”
I've done all these, but only as a child with a sociopathic father. When you're trying not to be killed or injured, these are good tactics. As an adult, it's complete no contact with abusers. At work, its complete gray rock and much documentation. Good luck, all. It's a jungle out there!
Robin Donnelly my challenge is in the work place . Do narcissist see other narcissist ?
@Gigi Girl As Dr. Grande said in the video, narcissists do see, and respect (or less contemn, are "less disgusted by") other narcissists, as peers in elitehood.
How about a grey boulder dropped on their head from a freeway overpass?
@JudgeJulieLit, narcissist will battle with each other a lot too. I've seen a bunch of times where they try to work together on something/someone only too start going head on with each other. They are very toxic people and will go back and forth with each other for power and/or control.(Well power and/or control in their delusional little worlds though.)
My brother was like this until he was brought down by some people that had it in for him. I knew that this would happen because he thought he was smarter than everybody including me and he judged people based on how much material gain that they have and completely ignored his family because he though he didn't need us anymore until he got into trouble with the people who he thought were on his side but they were working against him. He quit eating and had a number of money problems. he self-destructed
These are all brilliant reactions. Amazing different points of view. Thank you!
These recommendations are spot on and I also found them to be very amusing. I’m also a clinical psychologist, but practicing Ecuador.
Thank you for all your videos. You have made my brain so much more wrinkled and I can’t thank you enough for it.
dealing with a narcissistic ppl really very exhausting..you must be knowledgeable , smart w/o letting them know you are..they never let themselves compete by the high ranking, but they do to their subordinate and lowly🥺 ..all your advises really works 💪
you are right .they could twist the reality into lies to destroy you..
Keep in mind, that peace isn't always worth having. Especially if as a result you're not at peace with yourself.
It's more of a detente.
Isn't it so!
True. But if it's a safety thing, these are okay ideas. But still just for as short term as possible. It's soul crushing to say the least to pretend you're someone you're not.
I’m just going to do this until I have enough money to leave. It would not be a way to live long term.
Hi Dr. Grande. Love your work. The 5-Factor model OCEAN really helps me to understand personality traits and to know when a trait is uhealthy. I wish you would set up a presentation that shows normal vs abnormal. I think that would be a tremendous help for us all. Maybe parents would be able to identify areas while children are still matuating.
That snark is next level. 😂 I love it!!
Oh and the info is extremely helpful!! Thank you Dr. Grande.
I tease them, turn into jokes whenever possible and ignore their actions and comments, occasionally I am nice to them. I never give in. Trying to keep them in the corner I designated for them. It's not easy but it works. I learnt the hard way that they are not capable to be true friends. They are very good pretenders, they perfected deception, which they meticulously plan well in advance, their life is just a performance. Sadly, sometimes, for your own good, you can not get away from them.
Thanks.... I have a bullying 28 yr. o. Grandson living with me & my husband. My narcissist Mother, I got away from, raised him. She died & I found a relief... a Peace I'd never known, then comes my Grandson living here & behaving just like my Mom. I don't just kick him out because I understand the damage done to him by my Mom, after all, she raised me & ( my twin brother committed suicide 💔 because of our childhood abuse ) . Now, here I am, stuck with a bully 😤. All I want is Peace, so any coping skills are greatly appreciated. I'm learning to emotionally detach & my mantra is; " ITS NOT ABOUT ME, ITS ABOUT HIS ISSUES".. walk away & do something I enjoy.
Then they beat the snot out of you and lock you in a closet. I'm finally recognizing that Grey rock is best.
Dr. Grande does a great job throwing in subtle jokes that the Narc prolly will not get for a while. They usually unconsciously block any true info that they interpret as painful or possibly detrimental to thems. The joke does effect them though. Like a mountain of pebbles sitting on their craven chests.
@Sara Courtemanche whats grey rock?
"Corners I designed for them" hahah killer 😅😅
This information is relevant, purposeful, and helpful. Thank you.
A lot of this advice would feel risky with a covert narcissist. If my mum is in any way representative, I've learnt that being an attentive and discreetly supportive audience works best. Any strong validation can already backfire even when genuine. I also wonder, ethically, how helpful it is to fuel a narcissist's self aggrandising view..? Is that throwing fuel on fire in the long run..?
When I disengage from a narcissist manipulating and controlling the conversation, I like to point randomly and shout “ Look! A squirrel!” Then I walk away. Positivity to all.❤️🇨🇦
Jason Berezny Very funny 😂
Thank you---I will be using that💯
Ha ha ha good one, this made me smile.
The part about the fantasies is dead on. They really don't realize how awful the world would be-how much others would suffer-if their wishes were granted. Or perhaps they do realize, but they think that awfulness would somehow be "worth it." The suffering of others may strike them as deserved.
This is excellent for the workplace...I'm not so sure with my sister. I've gone no contact for 5 years and I'm at peace.
I find myself no reaction to them works the best. I'm dealing with one right now. Just tries everything in the world to engage me in an argument. And I just look at her and say and a few times. Shut them down every time I won't praise them I'm not looking to pump them up even if I don't feel it. I don't know I thought I heard him say treatment they can't get treatment cuz they think they're all good and you're messed up. Like this malignant narcissist here which is married to my pretend father. After just being nasty for 40 years. Says to me a few months ago I forgive you for everything you've done to me. You're so delusional they can't be helped.
The way I dealt with my mother for most of my life was always having someone else in the room. That worked until all of her friends died and now she's in assisted living. Now she focuses all the negativity and insults on me. It's exhausting.
My mother was kicked out of assisted living! She’s not even allowed back on the property, to see her so called friends
Is there a follow up video to this? I really feel like there could be a video about the interplay of being open, honest, direct, and wanting to help a narcissistic person grow, and appearing valuable and important in front of them. Because something about "my opinion is of high value" as a lying/manipulative tactic does sound very dangerous beyond momentary engagement. Because I feel like it's hard for anyone who's humble to make themselves appear grandiose to appease someone for anything more than a conversation or statement. For me personally, it feels like a very dangerous game of "we both are so much better" that you end up stepping into. Other than that though, very sound advice. This guy deserves support and he clearly really cares about the fact most people are hurt versus broken even if most can't be fixed
The horrible thing is... narcissists really like to make you miserable no matter how happy you make them. They're going to backstab you in the end as hard as they can. And I think it gets worse the more you make them happy, actually. It does make them worse. And worse.
You are so right. Actually they seem to hate happiness.
I used to hear my mom on the phone in the living room gossiping about relatives and even me lots of times to whoever she was talking to on the phone, I used to feel very angry at what she’d say about me, and when I would walk into the kitchen to make a drink or snack, I’d make eye contact with her and she’d smile so sweetly and wink or something as if what she had said never happened and after I’d go back to my room she’d say more things and I would cry listening to her say embarrassing things, she’d even exaggerate to get a bigger reaction from whoever she was talking to.
Narcissistic ppl thrive on other ppls energy and reactions. They thrive on gossiping and talking bad about other ppl. There’s a verse in the Bible that says if you talk negatively or give someone a bad name behind their backs, that that’s a form of murdering that person. In Gods eyes she has murdered so many ppl.
@blk_velvet i have a parental figure who feeds off my pain. i feel for you, the shit they say without any shame usually playing themselve up as the big hero or the alleged victim. The smirk is one of the worst parts that usually means they got the reaction they needed at your cost. yes document and record everything discretely.
@Kristin M Do we have the same parent?? Because it sounds like you’re talking about my mom haha!
Well there’s something we can take away from this. And that is “how NOT to be” as a person lol
Your tips describe an entire relationship I was in.
They did try to paint me as a narcissist I'm not sure if I am or not. They did try to tell me I have BPD which I'm also not sure whether I have or not.
At some point they went to the intake appointment for a new therapist and said that they were given a preliminary diagnosis of borderline traits, which did seem to fit.
Later they said that no that's never said that I only said that to you to make you feel better. You're the one with BPD.
Intentionally or not, though, they had certainly exhibited each of these tactics at various points in our relationship.
So informative and validating. Thank you
Grey-rocking works wonders. My mother would respond to nearly every single call by shrieking “I THOUGHT YOU’D FORGOTTEN ABOUT YOUR MOTHERRRRR!!!” It irritated me to no end. So instead of starting a fight over it, I’d just remain quiet. A few awkward seconds would pass, and she’d say “Hello?” and I’d start from there, acting like she hadn’t just shrieked in my ear. It only took about 3 weeks for her to stop. I’ve since gone no-contact, which I feel is by far the best method for dealing with a narcissist.