Types of Narcissistic Abuse | Exposure, Direct, Insidious, & Emotional Starvation
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 кві 2024
- This video attempts to answer two questions (1) What is the nature of narcissistic abuse? and (2) What are the types of narcissistic abuse?
The first type of narcissistic abuse is exposure abuse. This one's a fairly basic type of abuse. If someone is in a relationship with a person who is narcissistic, the arrogant and condescending behavior is embarrassing and could result in social isolation for the couple. This is a mild form of abuse or discomfort. The second type this gets much more serious and this is direct abuse. This is when somebody yells, screams, says derogatory remarks, and insults. This is not subtle and it has a fairly pronounced overlap with physical abuse. The third type of narcissistic abuse is insidious abuse. It is really the most common and when people use the term “narcissistic abuse” oftentimes this is what they're really talking about (this is the most discussed on UA-cam) This abuse involves manipulation (e.g. gaslighting) It is about maintaining power and control. We also see the classic guilt trip and the wounded hero mentality. The fourth type of emotional abuse I'll talk about here I call emotional starvation, lack of affection and sensitivity, and sometimes I also refer to this as a lack of depth.
Narcissism and psychopathy needs to be taught in schools. The earlier the better.
Catherine I agree with you! How can we get this changed or enforced??? Or out there in there in the dating world to break the vicious cycle!
@@janeknose6136 I think with internet the information is getting out there. There is much more awareness than 20 years ago where you could hardly find any information. People now seem to learn about these disorders after contact with these people which is better than before, where there was basically nothing. What I find interesting about the internet is what people become interested in when there is freedom to start groups, UA-cam channels etc when we are less dependent on the "official media", official psychiatric/psychological information. This subject has basically expoded....because there was a need. I predict this subject will continue to flourish in this type of media, unless the powers that be try to stop it....and they might. Hopefully it does get to the point where it is taught to children at a young age. Bullying in schools is so poorly managed in schools atm I can't see this happening in the near future but at least there is "the internet" now to spread information and hopefully it eventually gets to children in schools. Even if children were taught what abuse is including the more manipulative psychological abuse this would be a start. What we can do now is teach our own children and families. Sadly this is how change happens, slowly. There is nothing new about this either. Decades ago it was the feminist movement that brought child abuse/child sexual abuse to light. Not psychiatric/psycholgic sources as you would have thought.
@Le Wats I agree. Healthy boundaries are necessary. But why hide reality? These disorders exist. These people are incredibly destructive and there is no cure (maybe occasional improvement). They do incredible damage to people's lives even people who have healthy boundaries. Healthy boundaries alone are not guaranteed protection. If you get in the way of something they want they will do damage to you even if they don't know you (I have seen that as well). We need to develop a society that recognises these personalities and protects people. No sugar coating. We do need to be alarmist when these individuals are around.
I was home educated.
Read How to Spot a Dangerous Man (before you get involved). This book could stop all women from attracting emotionally broken men in its tracks. I tell every woman who is not in a healthy marriage/relationship about it. My ex is a narc...already educating my 15 year old daughter. @@janeknose6136
The old adage applies here: “If your date is nice to you but rude to the waiter, they’re still not a nice person”
Their niceness toward their date eventually turns nasty.
yep, as a food server I observed this many times.
Red flag I never detected early enough, consistently nasty to service people.
Dumb me, again.
I met an individual and observed his interactions with other people. This person was outright nasty. I thought to myself hmmmmm I wonder if he will ever treat me that way🤔 let’s just say it did not take long lol
Nah they still aight.
It took me 10 years to realize I wasn’t the one always at fault or mentally unstable, and another four years and approximately ten attempts to leave for good. Leaving the relationship was more difficult than quitting the painkiller habit I developed to cope with the abuse. I now choose to see the entire experience as the greatest gift of my life. At the end I was left with no sense of self, totally shattered, which gave me the unique opportunity to rebuild myself in a conscious manner. I’m not the same person I was prior to the relationship, I’m a better person in so many ways.
Thank you for contributing to getting this information out and doing it in an intelligent and unbiased way.
Elizabeth Rose,You are beautiful 🌹🌹🌺,you don't need a narc 😈 in your life!!
I am SO happy for you!! It sounds like you made some great choices, and got some great results!! Good for you!!! 👍🏼👍🏼😊
My experience is very similar except 25 years invested. I’m not the same person I was 3 years ago and that is truly a gift. I remember who I was before and have added the lessons from those years. I really appreciate who I am now. Excited about what growth is yet to come. Good life to you.
Elizabeth Rose. Your story parallels mine so closely. It took me 12 yrs to figure out what exactly was going on and then 5 years to get out with my tattered soul. But life improved steadily from then on. Blessings to you!
Wow. Truly inspiring
My mom is 💯 the emotional starvation. There was no second gear, she was not being manipulative. I learned to be emotionally independent early, to give up on getting any kind of positive attention, and to not ask for help ( negative attention).
Same. By the time I was ~8, I gave up trying to connect with my mom. It felt like she wasn't interested in having reasonable dialogue and everything was her way or the highway. I sought validation inwardly or from other adults. I was home alone often from the age of 5. moved out on my own at 15, and learned how to be independent from an early age. I struggle with asking people for help and prefer doing as much as I can myself.
My narcissist ex-GF was the opposite. She went to private school and was home schooled. Her mom micromanaged her and was overly protective. My ex was in "crises" often and constantly texted family and friends to help her out for basic things that she should either already know as an adult or could Google very easily. She even bragged about her weaponized incompetence and was very dependent on many people to help her.
Narcissistic abuse by your parent or parents is probably even more devastating. It can happen from the time you're born, and if you grow up with it, as a child you don't have a clue that your parent is sick. You grow up with massive psychological / emotional wounds that you may not recognise that you even have, unless you are somehow lucky enough to have the space, time & resources to start to undo the damage.
Hear, hear
I’m recovering from 7 years of narcissistic abuse by my husband who seems to fit into the categories of narcissistic personality disorder comorbid with borderline personality disorder. His narcissistic and toxic aunt was his caregiver. It’s a multi-generational tragedy which is affecting multiple other innocent people including his children. I’m using all my might to heal myself, to protect my child, and to break his family curse from further destroying me. Be strong, my friend. The truth has set you free. Now you can stretch your own wings and be yourself and find your own peace and joy. Love yourself first! Be strong!
@@shelchicago8997feel you... Hear you... You can do it!
Hi bunny.
.so true... Living this... Got to see it only 2years ago...the awakening!!! Now I am doing damage control for myself by myself... Tormented too long now I see the light.... Thanks Dr Grande for insight!
Betsy Cho.B - I had to go completely no contact with the few relatives I have, for reasons best not gone into. Since doing so, I have noticed my self-confidence return slowly, and therefore also my self-acceptance. Without the negative influence being in the background, my emotions have slowly begun to calm down, my mind is becoming clearer, and I have started to make positive changes that were long overdue in my life. I really believe that self healing work cannot begin to bear fruit, until you go completely no contact with whomever your abuser is.
This is what makes altruistic or communal narcissists especially dangerous...they will consistently show generosity and niceness to others but withhold that inside the family, behind closed doors.
Absolutely...personal experience with that
R N - yes I have met two like that, they are 100x more dangerous than an extroverted npd/bpd because their manipulations are far more subtle. It takes a lot of experience with learning how Cluster Bs behave, even to begin to recognise the covert/introvert npd/bpd.
Yes. The abuse of covert malignant narcs is subtle, passive aggressive, and deniable. Sometimes directed at certain individuals (as in a workplace, where these narcs will abuse only certain people in certain situations and everyone else only sees the saintly giving behaviors).
Shae yes so true.my husband is doing it to me and my children.best actor!!!
Virginia Fonacier me too! It’s just so sad & hard to deal with 😔
Oh my gosh!! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve told my husband that I would be happy if he would just treat me *LIKE A STRANGER!!* Wow. I had no idea...
I have told my husband many times that I wish he would treat me like he treats strangers. People think he’s so nice and he definitely is not.
@@lianatrombley6400 I know exactly what you’re talking about! People who meet my husband think he is as sweet as candy. I wish he would treat me that way. Our 49th anniversary is coming up. I wish I would have had the guts to leave him a long time ago. Our son died suddenly last year, (Covid) and my husband would yell at me whenever I would start crying. He said he couldn’t handle my crying. He even lied to, and manipulated the ER doctor in order to have me committed to a mental institution the day after my son died! I was able to get myself out two days later because they had no reason to keep me there-i wasn’t suicidal, I was just very, very sad. I can’t handle him being so heartless and mean. I feel stuck because I have mobility problems, and I can’t live on my own. Which is why I am always so depressed. And, ever since my precious son died, I have wanted to join him. He was the brightest light in my life.
If you’re still reading this, thank you. I guess I just really needed to tell someone all of that. Thank you for “listening”.
@@Racingirl911 hope you are doing better, and so sorry for the loss of your son.
Thank you for the “will” and “won’t” explanation. Being in a “relationship” with a narcissist is like having all of the cons of a relationship but none of the pros. The depth that you expect to develop never does, and it is good to realise it’s not because there is something wrong with you needing it, it’s just that the narcissist is incapable of developing that depth and doesn’t even know they’re lacking in it, or that it’s critical to the development of any healthy relationship.
So sad🙁
My ex took some pride in being "disciplined" & unemotional. When I finally realized he just wasn't capable of empathy he didn't disagree. I had a moment of clarity then. When I left I told him that I felt sympathy for him. Imagine not experiencing true love or friendship ever. I'll take the the highs and lows emotional depth gives me any day over not.
He actually got quiet for once ; it hadn't occurred to him that he was ever missing out on something.
❤
Perfect summary "Incapable"💕
@@mtz6198 similar last event
"How relieved you must be this all came OUT!"
There are people who are kind to strangers, neighbors, etc., but cruel and manipulative in private. So you cannot be sure that because someone is kind to strangers, they will be kind to you.
mountain mermaid1331 Very, very true. This is the worst kind of person, especially a parent who does this to their own child.
Yep he tells people I'm crazy ,I'm making things up but he can get caught red handed it's my fault if you look for issues then you will find them! Wow I'm so done very hurt but I'm done. It's all about how he feels.
The destruction is so sad too. The 'strangers' they suck up to and treat like gold, will be gone, while their dependent family members, and loved ones are destroyed. Just who do they think they will be with them to spend their older years, or be at their deathbed? Oh, that's right... they don't think ahead.
e chase but they feel entitled to getting care from the ones they treated as second class, that’s what’s so sick.
mountain mermaid1331 that’s my mil then she tells them that I’m doing the abuse to her when she is the actual abuser
Ex husband treated strangers with more respect than he did me.
🖕 double barrel salute to him🖕
Yes that's how they roll. So damn stupid. I'm sorry i know exactly what you are taking about. But they don't. Because they are...never gonna get it never gonna it. Remember that old song 😂 That's why they make you explain yourself to death. They are not hard headed like we thought, they are narcissists🌺
Mine too. My husband would take me out once a year on our anniversary. Maybe again in his bday. Gets drunk and talks to absolutely everyone. Buys them drinks. I stopped having a drink when he takes me out. He leaves me standing alone and men will hit on me. Try to grope me. And he doesn’t care. I’ve been put in dangerous situations bc he trusts everyone. Leaves the bars in New Orleans with them, usually to show him another bar. But we are out in the street at like 4am. I want to go back to the hotel or go home, but I’m being negative and want to start a fight. We just get lured off, I’m walking by myself. Usually my feet are sore and I can’t keep up. People have tried to split us up on the road and get me to think he went ahead to some other bar but I checked them all til i found the one he was at nearby. I tell him right away about what is happening but he is having too much fun. Tells me to go buy a drink. I tell him again the next morning and I’m ruining his weekend starting a fight. One night a bouncer next to us got stabbed trying to break up some crazy knife fight with other patrons. My husband was so wasted that he didn’t see people running to the door. I had to grab him to pull him away. He called me a bitch. The next day he found blood specs on his shirt and asked about them, he thanked me and told me how good I was to him. Yadda yadda. Since then it has been brought up and I’ve been called controlling and I exaggerated a stabbing. I refuse to go out with him anymore. Now I’m just a bitch that wants to be miserable all the time. Then he’s sorry, because he wants sex, after sex I’m a controlling bitch again. He is a monster at all hours of the day. My monster. I feel sick when he hugs me, tries to kiss me and I cringe every time he says “I love you”. I’ve never hated a human so much in my life, but I am not allowed to leave or I will be punished somehow. He never lied about that. I hope one day, my son and I will make it out of here. I want to live again, but I’m afraid this woman was dead a long time ago. I hope we can all find a way to be stronger. I hope karma destroys our monsters for us.
@@dmknight08 you are not Unknown to me.. run if you can.
My boyfriend does too... I thought he was the nicest person I ever met when I met him. I thought "this could be a red flag" but I didn't act on my intuition
I know exactly what you mean.
A long term relationship with a narcissist will change the other person indefinitely. You can think, "this will never happen to me," but it can, & it's not easy to spot. It's a daily struggle when you're finally out of that relationship.
“There is no second gear.” Yep, a great way to spot a narcissist is the inability to see the world through anybody else’s lens but their own, and the expectation that others should instinctively read their mind. It’s typical in the supervisor/employee dynamic.
The narcissist will always try to rush the relationship to trap or bag you as fast as possible. This makes it harder to escape.
Yes
It’s called “Love bombing.” They know it’s only a matter of time before the mask slips and exposes their real self, so they must rush to get the person to commit to them.
Wanted to move in after three weeks. Took my antique loveseat to get it re-apholstered, and I never saw it again. I'd owned it for 16 years before I'd met him. Moved it out of the apartment while I was at work....
Yes. Everything is staged
Ppl need to realize the lovebombing is the beginning of the abuse cycle , if it’s too good to be true and over the top w txting all day calls and the phony compliments that’s how they suck you in . Academy award winning actors ... got this shit down to a science .🏆☠️
When Dr. Grande compared romantic relationships to car accidents, I felt that. 😊
Cause you'll be a wreck after?
Wrong time, wrong place
No it's much much worse then that. I know because I was involved in a horrific car accident where there was tampering of vehicle prior to accident. And that was nothing compared to what I been going threw for the past 5 yrs.
@@babydollinfamous6497 What? You mean narcissistic abuse is worse?
If that's it I'd say yes narcasistic abuse is worse too.
🤣😂 perfect analogy
Omw ... my husband passed away a year ago and I still haven't been able to grieve. I'm currently being treated for depression and PTSD as your description of Narcissistic abuse is spot on!! Even after 25 years of an mental and emotional abuse I could never figure out what was wrong with us. Wow, this has opened up my eyes and hopefully help me finally heal on this terrifying journey...
Love from South Africa
I’ve been married 25 years, and with him 26; he totally never can relate to how I feel; I’m 58 years old, and is this what I have to look forward to until I die????
I respect you for your bravery. You still live strongly without going for a suicide. Some people do as they don’t have strength to endure such pains and dilemmas.
Along with the awareness of the reasons for your imbalances, I hope your soul starts to heal fast now.. Let’s be grateful! No dwellings on past.. Many good things are on the way 🎉 Blessings for a good mental and physical health!!
I never grieved for my narc mother. Never!
I hope you have made healthy progressions on your healing journey. Gentle hugs from Texas and please know that you are loved. 💖
Watch Dr. Ramani too. It will also help you.
This is perhaps the most easily relatable explanation I’ve ever heard on narcissistic abuse. The fact that my ex husband never developed a deeper emotional capacity makes perfect sense as to how he could be so cold. He wasn’t necessarily withholding affection. He didn’t have it in him.
I wish you'd speak about parental narcissistic abuse. Unfortunately, narcissistic people still become parents.
I have a video coming out soon about bad parenting and narcissism - I will have do a little research to record a video on parental narcissism -
Does it have to be called bad parenting? I feel horrible. Taking steps to adjust some behaviors. Please mention more frequently that if humans are in these relationships to seek therapy and learn how to tell the parent. My daughter knew before me. I was leaving toxic work environment. Came to YTTV for strength and I had no clue about myself having a personality disorder. But I do. I didn’t feel or mean to raise my kids with bad parenting. Yeah, please push therapy. Before their adult children run away. Thank you.
iamlight ...yes they do !!
Dr. Todd Grande
Hi is there a way I can speak to you , I need help
LIZARD ...it takes two to tango, and the responsibility lies between both parties. It happens to men as well as women !
“Wounded Hero” really sums up a style of covert narcissism that I’m personally familiar with. I’ve never seen anyone else pinpoint that duality so precisely.
That is the description I also would use to describe my narc husband. Loved being the "savior" and "herp", but at the same time always bellyaching that he wasn't appreciated. The hero's behavior was like a tic! No matter how many times you say, "Stop interjecting yourself!", he'd say, "I'm just trying to help". Trying to control, trying to manipulate, trying to make you dependent, and then trying to use your dependence against you is actually what he does!
Ugh me too
Chris watts was like this.
Tell me where exactly to find this "wounded hero" speech
The analogy you used while test driving the car- “there is no second gear” will stay with me forever, it’s ingrained in my brain now. Your analysis are just so profound.
Thank you again and again Dr. Grande!
My ex husband had no second gear in our relationship. Unfortunately I did see it before we married, but I was that “failure to learn” person. I saw the car swerving but I pulled up along side it thinking it would stop when it saw me - I thought I could teach him how to love smh. I was 21 and oh so naive. Now he has alienated me from my children and caused so much destruction to them but they take his side.
I agree. His analogy is perfect...
You have described my father to perfection! He was not only a narcissist and abusive to my Mother and all of his offspring, he was Bipolar, so our household was truly a living hell. I did not become narcistic, but each of us children has mental health issues which are deep rooted...
I was always blamed for his raging, demeaning, ignoring, and insulting.
Lydia Materno me too
Blame me for everything. He had CPS (child protective services) called on him by our kid’s (11 yr old twins) therapist, and blamed me for it! Saying I brain washed them, I secretly called and deceived the CPS professionals, I ruined the kids and made them neurotic. He then started gaslighting the kids, and attacking me if I dared bring up the abuse he caused.
He is evil. Now he’s smearing me in our friend circle for creating his depression. He can’t exist on his own - he must destroy me to exist.
May he rot in hell.
Me too, he wouldn't yell if I didn't piss him off, he wouldn't cheat if I wasn't so used up, he wouldn't insult me if I wasn't so damn stupid and be a good wife
If you have a lot of confidence... Then you can Bank on it, that this is why they get into those rage tantrums... They rage and scream and are furious all the time with you... When you have a calm composure, and self-confidence, nothing they say or do can shake it. Yes your self confidence must really be showing, and of course the narc can't stand that 😠 the more self-confident, calm, and logical, that you are, the more it p****s off the narc.
My vulnerable narcissist ex husband was convinced I was abusive because I seemed to be cold and unemotional. The truth was I instinctively knew there was no point in arguing with him so I would shut down. Saying no to him in any way would always (and still does) inspire revenge/punishment.
My ex wife couldn't figure out why I stopped interacting with her after years of freaking out, questioning everything I did, wanting to go through my phone, guilt tripped about everything and not complementing everything she did and how attractive she was. When I finally stopped engaging she completely flipped on me and accused me of being everything she was the whole time.
Exactly my experience.
Christina Beck I had the exact same experience with my ex. There was literally nothing I could say so that is what I ended up saying - nothing.
I remember him asking me a question about a household issue not long before I left and I replied that I did not understand why he was asking the question as he was going to do what he wanted anyway. He smirked and agreed.
I was in this relationship for over 12 years. It ended 7 years ago and my thinking is sometimes still skewed.
Example : my partner was given a speeding ticket and I apologised as I thought he would blame me - he had been giving me a ride to help me out, so I reasoned if I had not asked he would not have received the ticket, therefore it was my fault - this was 100% what my ex would have said. My partner could just not understand the/my logic at all. This is because he is not an abusive narcissist .
What's your plan to get out?
Damn girl you're fine as wine :)
Very good explanation; there simply is no second gear. They’re unable to achieve true intimacy, but they are able to pretend there is long enough to trick you into the relationship. I’m glad I watched.
The one thing I've realized that has helped me in life and in relationships is that its possible for two people to completely disagree about something and to both be right.
Calm normal people thinks that way.
Narcissists will never agree on it.
Because narcissists are angry people by default. Deep inside, they know something is wrong with them because they throw anger fits like a 5 yr old tantrum but trapped in adult body.
Anger is the air these narcissists breathe. If a day passes without anyone to bully, argue or fight, that day is boring for a narcissist.
There is no second gear! Mannnn, that is such a simple concept, yet EXTREMELY profound!
Extremely!!
There is, it doesn't work and because you've let a stranger drive you without telling them about it you are sat in the middle of the road, dithering, waiting for a truck.
Here the narc is being more narc than intelligent
Ιn England the diagnostic term for these people C***
Handbrake, jump out, walk back to your own car
The rub is that this person has absolutely no idea how mean it is to make anyone waste their gas, and time to test drive a vehicle that is not road worthy. It’s ‘as if’ they have spent their entire lives making other people as unhappy as themselves.
3rd gear becomes 2nd gear.car is actually a 4 speed.
Many other Simple wise sayings about this: 1. “Don’t keep going back to that well ; it’s bone dry, and there’s no rain coming.”2. “When a person shows you who they really are, believe them.”3. “ A leopard doesn’t change his spots;“4. “Rescuers need victims.“5. “There is no there there.“5. “What’s that sucking sound I keep hearing? It’s your bottomless pit of need at your side. “ lol and The most empathetic in describing the partner, “the loneliest place one can feel is that of an unloving partner. “
Trying to have a close relationship with a narcissist is like trying to knit socks with machine guns and worms
I stay in such a relationship because on some level it is interesting to study. Also, fear keeps me stuck. Yet, I sacrifice myself. I am slowly more detached. Finally, I will be prepared to separate.
Is he a musician? My marriage was like this too. Your description is great! Keep your freedom.
😂
😀
In other words, 'it's impossible'!
My dad acts so nice around anyone “your dad is so nice what a good man”
At home he would scream and very rarely get physical with me
Mines like that as well, except he ALWAYS puts on the "im a holy man" mask and belittles us in the smallest ways. But when we have fights, his "holiness" gets thrown out of the window lmao
I feel you both. My stepdad loved to kiss up to priests, would get up at 4:00am to say the rosary, then kick the cat and threaten to blow up the house. When he put a gun to my sister's head when she was 16, she mocked him by falling to her knees saying a "Hail Mary", to which he replied that he didn't care if he went to hell for murder (for a minor infraction). Throughout our teen years we were told repeatedly what a kind and generous man he was and if we dared to speak the truth people would say we were exaggerating because he couldn't possibly be that way at home. In fact, I begged a woman I babysat for not to bring her son to our house because my stepfather might be cruel to the boy. She didn't believe me, and he ended up twisting the child's arm and threatening him. I find that it's still pointless to discuss with anyone but my step-nieces who didn't believe their own mother when she gave them the light version of the abuse she suffered, until I confirmed the stories and added more details that had been left out.
It is so nice to see a genuinely excellent psychiatrist simply giving a comprehensive guide to help people, without any promotion to get counselling from him, or read his series of books, or watch his seminars. Dude, the world needs more peeps like you!!
Yes! Intelligent, educated, informed!!
So helpful!! Love thos’
Love this guy!
As a clinician, I am really appreciating the way that Dr. Todd makes the information that he presents so digestible!
Estelle A,You are beautiful 🌹🌺, hope you are not with a narc 😈!!
@@christianpulisic7784 Thank you. Be blessed.
Thank you for showing me that the total withholding of affection and withholding sex is a type of abuse. I always felt it was and that he even takes sadistic pleasure in hurting me that way, but I’ve never heard anyone say it the way you just did.. thank you for validating my feelings on this subject.
Debra Anchante This is so confusing to me. I have been so nervous and on edge with mine that I never wanted sex. He always wanted sex but it was as if that’s all he saw. . He said I was withholding sex, but really I just did not want it.
I think if that’s the only problem there could be other reasons.
I was victim of this 2
Not always; sometimes withholding S£X can be a good thing; and used as a laying down boundaries technique. Depending on the situation. If they don't settle down with you don't get intimate with them.
Untethered yeah same. I just don’t feel comfortable having sex all the time. I’ll admit that whenever he gives off signs of being turned on, I notice I leave him to watch UA-cam (mostly subconsciously). I think it depends on the situation and you seem to be in the right. My boyfriend never gets mad at me for leaving so I should probably consider his needs more
Thank you Dr. Grande for bringing awareness about narcissistic abuse. Everything you said about the heat slowly rising was extremely validating for me. I had no idea what narcissism even was until about 2 years into my marriage, we're now on four years. Many people who don't have a full understanding of narcissism and the abuse that comes with it have no idea how difficult it is to just up and leave. Thank you for shedding light on such an important topic.
I met my narc ex-husband in university. I was an academically advanced, naive girl who had never had a boyfriend. Nearly twenty years later, I was running for my life because the God of the Universe revealed to me that my ex had a complex scheme to murder me. Mr. Moneybags Rockafeller didn't want to spend his money to divorce me, so he 'logically' concluded it would be cheaper to off me. So, sometimes you DO have to just up and leave, if you want to live. Although, you are exactly right that dealing with this type of relationship is very difficult. Just be ready to protect yourself physically, emotionally and certainly financially.
True, it is difficult to leave. Not impossible though with the right support- Womens Aid in the UK. It may take several times of leaving the narcissist to finally get free. I recommend the work of HG Tudor on UA-cam in helping you realise exactly how the push & pull process of being in a relationship with a narcissist works. And he explains how to leave for good.
I feel like a big part of the challenge of learning sooner vs later is how charming they can be in the beginning and what a good show they can put on. They can be nice to everyone around you and charming in the beginning so it takes some time to see around the facade / the wall / the show, to see them be less respectful to someone else and of course you. And when they start with those behaviors towards you, It’s easy to be confused and think the fault lies somewhere with yourself. My therapist kept saying it was like dating a politician.
100% my experience too!!
@@KY-jb4vd I’m sorry you had to deal with that too. I must admit hearing you say that feels validating and reassuring to be truly understood, so thank you
@@ginnyrick I am so sorry that you also were caught by one of these types and hope that your healing is bringing back your strength and power. I definitely feel my power returning now that I can see this for what it truly is, rather than a constant feeling of anxiety that I am doing something wrong/am annooying etc. All the best to you!
@@KY-jb4vd I’m happy to hear that your feeling your power coming back too!
The nc abuse start to occur immediatly after our wedding. Before no red flags, nothing- being 4 years together and living together.
After the birth of our son it start to be emotional hell for me!! After 1,5 years I noticed it's not a phase, it get's worse, nothing helps and I felt like murdered from the inside. I left and divorced and never regret it!!!
Yeah, it seems to start after a birth of a child. Glad you got out!
Design Your Own Jewelry W O R K S H O P -do you have any idea why after a birth of their child? Is it jealousy or suspicion that it may not be theirs?
@@tmo.48 I think they know there's a life long connection then - much harder to leave then. And a child becomes the center of attention v them
My husb. was jealous when I sang
to the baby. He punched the kitchen benchtop and shouted STOP!
This is an extremely important subject, there are many of us who have suffered these kinds of abuse, and it validates our experiences. Thanks so much Dr. Grande.
I agree. Dr Grande's description is more more accurate than the simplistic explanations of the pop therapist who, tho accomplished and offers much insight, insists that the recipient (or spouse) of the narcisistic abuse must always have a condition of codependency or lack healthy self love. A darn good person, as I think Dr Grande explains, might not have clear evidence of the spouse having NPD. The personality traits of insidious abusive self- centeredness can show up later at some point in a relationship after a loving healthier spouse has made concession and demonstrated tolerance for human faults, saying, "No one is perfect. I accept the good with the flaws. After all, that's what mature love does." The spouse attempts to sometimes heroically rise above the faults to overlook, not lie about, but confront to no avail, and then choose to tolerate without resentment, the withholding shallow insensitive spouse. Especially if the NPD is good at fake apologies, fake attempts at improvement, goes to marriage counseling that utilizes the better aspects of coaching modalities, etc. The soulfulness that once appeared real can become apparently unreal, fake, an act of manipulation. I think Dr Grande is more precise in describing the NPD's shrewdness. Rosenberg's statements
about the spouse always being codependent or even addicted to the NPD from what I understand, is too simple. However, every recipient of NPD abuse can to a lesser or greater degree benefit, I'd think from reflecting on healthy self care, practicing it, and healing from the damage that's been done as a result of the neglect, lying, and manipulations such as triangulating and / or tricking as in setting up or on the spot "gasligjting" types of avoiding truth telling, or healthy risk taking, or avoiding vulnerability.
Authentically-fake, immature, people who have symptoms of pathological lying and devious behavior are hard to treat as their default behaviors kick-in under little to moderate stress. So the work of counseling in earlier days can be thrown off, ignored, and insidious selfishness can take over all too easily. These behaviors can be, imo, elaborate and confusing for a genuine person. Genuine people would require some skill in clinical psychology and forensics to accurately identify the elaborate web the NPD creates. Children sadly can learn to treat others in such a manner, or might identify with the
non-victim--heroic type parent and struggle to realize that NPD is an actual "thing." After learning however, breaking away can be very difficult to do. But saving one's own soul can be a good enough reason, an heroic reason to leave and realize that to stay is to participate in a lie. When you understand that you've been dancing with the devil and exposed to all sorts of immorality, save your soul and those of your children Id say. That's if the patterns are repetative and do not tespond well to professional treatment. And by that time, the healthier spouse will have injuries that will require new and extensive help to heal because it's as if one's mind has been rewired to some extent, emotions very harmed, and even mild to complex PTSD has been sustained. The extreme dangers on either ends are taking too much responsibility with guilt ridden shame, or the lack of not looking at one's own behavior and readjusting to function with new insight, wise discernment, and forgiveness of self and the other person without allowing a repeat performance in yet another relatiinship. Better boundary setting can be a skill if that's lacking. One's sanity can feel threatened by living with a pathological liar over time.
I couldnt have put it any better.
Absolutely..
Deana Burnham - Great Post. I always felt a little uneasy with R Rosenberg. I do like Thrive After Abuse, she is very knowledgeable and I don’t get any feeling of unease watching her videos.
narcissistic abuse doesn’t exist
14:42 is spot on. I consider myself a fairly smart person and it took me quite some time to figure out that my partner is a narcissist and I'm being abused. All this time I've been thinking it was me the problem. Now thinking of an escape plan. Pray for me.
So strange how hard to figure out a plan to get out. I am having same problem. I do not understand my own brain. I have this hope that all will work out. Even though I do not know if he is telling truth or lies. But I stay. I am sick of myself to say the truth
@@jenniferredman3565 Assume they're ALL lies. Tell them nothing. No contact. Save any evidence. Don't get mad, they'll use it against you.
Expect nothing from court. Maybe let your brother or whoever go talk to him instead. Going to court and being maligned as a DV victim (in the immense negative, that you're a liar with no proof) is worse than the abuse itself even tho they'll likely have a record of such previously.
Read up on DV and emotional immaturity. Lundy Bancroft, The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker.
Adult children of emotionally immature parents by Lindsay Gibson. If you find abusive men, it's extremely likely you have abuse at home. Especially if it's more than one, even if it IS extremely common. Or if it goes on a very long time. It means you were primed to accept abuse early on.
Also, kids who live with it are primed to become abused (female) or abuser (male).
Library has them.
@@jenniferredman3565 I'd have sense enough to take off with next to nothing if necessary. Hope tf you don't have kids.
Don't announce where you go. Don't tell the post office, even. They're 1st to sell all your info, btw. Put everything online. Double/triple password all of it.
Move if needed. Change number and job. Delete all social media. Sell the car, don't use credit cards (easy to trace/track) and look up into on losing all trace of yourself. Change your name if needed.
Another tack is to be crazier than they are and in a state you can shoot them if they break in.
.save everything but never get mad. They'll try to make you look crazy, even if they have a history of this. And court will believe them unless they damn near kill you or actually succeed.
Change all passwords.
If you have them show up in front of your house or try to break in, call the cops. Don't tell them it's your ex. They'll take their time and you'll be dead by the time they show up.
Yes I thought it was me too. It’s awful, praying for you.
Exactly! One time my daughter cried because her father behavior made her embarrassed with people around in a fast-food restaurant. He yelled at a person in line in front of him. He has a problem with controlling his emotion. It took me a long time for preparing my leaving because I need a career to be financial independent to take good care of my kids. I wanted my kids to be successful and they are.
My tip is too listen to what your mind and body tells you..I’ve been around so many narcs my body automatically detects them🤣
I love that tip. It is so true, too. My body would tell me and I would just ignore it. I will try to stay more in tune from now on about this.
Same. Grew up in family. And My instincts just know and each time I’ve tried to be “rational” it was the same outcome anyway, and at my own expense.
@@1chienandalou oh man.... I know exactly what you mean
Their go to phrase when confronted is " there's something wrong with your thinking "
OMG that hits home for me! I dated someone who was great at first- romantic, thoughtful etc... But I kept finding myself running late when we had plans, & I would feel anxious in a not excited way. My subconscious knew he wasnt a good person WAY before my brain caught on. Ugh, years of drama for nothing.
Once I finally cut off contact I felt so much happier & physically great.
And it’s difficult to break up with a narcissist, especially when kids and custody are involved.
And Like I don't even know how to.
Yeah cuz they keep coming back and won't let you leave.
What to do? How? Children involved...he's saying that he wants to change for his children (that is of course after he realized that he's loosing everything!) He wants help and doesn't want to continue this vicious cycle...but how can I ever continue relationship when there is no love, no trust, dirty disgusting infidelities!! I hate him for rendering me this person I became...codependent, broken shel of a person....what do I do??
@@user-vn9jm2gm7k cry out to God for help ,deliverance and direction, He will also give you Peace in the midst of the storms.
which is a WAY too common situation.
This is the best analysis I have heard on this subject. Thank you!
I've got to say, my ex treated other people with a whole lot more respect than you treated me. You never would have been rude to wait staff or customer service people, and was never demanding in public. He was very aware of this image at all , and was very sensitive to embarrassment. It is why things were so much harder to suss out in the beginning. He often seemed depressed, so I rationalized that the silent treatments, condescension, sarcasm, guilt trips, insulting behavior etc., could somehow explained by depression. To me, the fact that he is thought of by so many people as such a great guy is the ultimate gaslight of all.
Hi girl, all of what you said is me too ❤
I was with a narcissist for 10 years and didnt know it. I thought he fell out of love with me and i blamed myself. This info is so validating and helpful. I just wish I knew before I spent 10 years with him and had 2 children with him. The emotional starvation thing is right on. Thank you.
How’d you get out?
I am a man dealing with the same bs
@@dilciaenid57 I quit my job bc I was so mentally unstae from all the abuse and he said he would not pay the bills on his own and he left! Lmao! I was discarded! I had always worked and only been unemployed for 2 months at the time! I was sad for about a month and then I started to feel like myself again! Best thing that ever happened to me!
Oh hell yea last year I was sick with Covid bronchitis sinusitis and pneumonia and all he did was complain I kept him awake did not lift on e finger to help me just bitched And complained about me coughing and spitting up my god how pathetic is he he probably gave it to me and didn’t know he had it cuz he didn’t get it and every time someone asks him if I had Covid he tells him bronchitis he leaves Covid out oh gees like I need that attention he’s so pathetic rn now the jack ssss is giving me the silent treatment LOL who cares
My story has been beyond destructive,
My narcissist abusive ex destroyed my life and our 3 in so many ways.
I ate out of a garbage bin due to my ex driving my finances to level 0 due to him stealing my money, lying, forging my signature, future faking and delusions.
He was unemployed and I am still a school teacher.
Come on Dr. Grande, narcissists are murderers and they murder their victims multiple times in horrific ways.
Blessings to you ❤️
I'm sorry you went through that. They don't all murder people. Some become CEOs, doctors, politicians, celebrities, and work in other areas where they can control people and elicit adulation.
I never knew what narcissism was or that it was a type of behavior , I’m in that situation now and grateful for this channel. Thank you for shedding light it is an enormous weight of my shoulders now that it has been exposed, something I can work with or work around and talk to other people about , Could have very easily lost mind dealing with this abuse . Actually ended up in jail for no reason . This type of behavior can ruin lives.
That story about “there is no 2nd gear” was so powerful. I’m watching your videos feeling very thankful for these insights and explanations. It’s helping me learn how to protect myself .
Where were you 20 years ago. I wish I would have known about narcissism before I met my ex. I guess that is pointless. It is what it is. Thanks for your wonderful wisdom and direction. You explain everything so plainly!
Me too - 40 + ywars wasted, in addition to a child. (I should have had an abortion.)
Don’t regret your child... it not the child’s fault
Thank you Dr. Grande, I am a survivor who had to leave a marriage due to the abuse. My thought has always been if I knew early on I would not have allowed myself to stay for so long. The other issue as is the case with my situation I had two narcissistic parents that makes it very difficult to recognize abuse because it is unfortunately what survivors thought was love. Once it is identified and you see your place in it I believe full recovery is possible. I am on my healing journey and am 2.5 years no contact with my ex. I am happy and at peace. Thank you I find your videos very informative this helps me after many years with a therapist.
'No second gear' is such a helpful analogy. There can be no 'abuse' if you understand this and choose not to have it in one's life. Great explanation and life lesson. Thank you.
Struggling to tie in the car accident scenarios of blame to narcissist abuse. “There is no second gear” makes sense. Although I’ve been victim to his intentional manipulation I can also tell there is a lack of depth, affection, sensitivity- there is no second gear. For myself It was emotional starvation and kindness starvation. It was debilitating.
thank you for your straight forward explanation. As you said there is a lot of jumbo mumbo out there about narcissism , but the way you explain it makes sense and is clear . I am just now 18 months out from a 23 year marriage, 4 children . i still love my narc husband , but I was left with nothing, he took the money, the house that we built together , the children, and my dignity and my friends. He turned almost everyone against me , it was not until a year down the line that my family and close friends saw what I was saying. i tried to take my own life once and thought of suicide several times.He is a well known, wealthy , very respected high high up in society, and I know I am blamed by most people for what happened. Now that I spend most of my time on my own , I remember the abuse that happened that passed right in front of me unnoticed , verbal, emotional, silent treatment for a month , telling me I needed a psychiatrist for my mood swings, telling everyone I was the one wearing the trousers in the house a joke he always used and I hated, any way many many many stories. Most recently physical abuse too.
Maybe you're thinking your former friends see you as he did. This sounds cliche but I adopted a stray from a shelter when things were really rough. I hadn't had a dog for years I deeply underestimated how much happiness pets can bring.
And I don't recommend this if you not a pet person obviously! You say you're alone a lot & maybe you ruminate like I did... Dogs live in the moment, they think you are the best thing ever & it forces you to get out & about with them.
Funny thing- all the traits I went in looking for (small, not a puppy etc) went out the window & I ended up with a now 50 lb pit bull mix who started as an odd looking hyper 4 month old puppy. Sometimes the universe gives you what you need, even if you don't realize it at first!
Verbal, emotional, silent treatment for a month........ Yah. Tears. Long time ago, now, but like yesterday. So sorry that you went thru all this.
Wow. That is so horrible. I cannot imagine going through all that. I'm so sorry. I'm glad you didn't succeed in taking your own life.
He took everything including the kids , abused you in so many ways, put the kids thru all of this and you still love him? I wish you took what you were entitled to from him and I hope you get the Councelling you need and the kids too.
Awesome video. I am 54 and still damaged from a Narc mother albeit I have made some progress over the years.
hazel, I don't think it is possible to be healed 100%. I believe "good enough" healed, is much easier to achieve. I'm reading "It's not me" by Anabel Gonzalez, it's been revelatory, so I recommend it.
@@BunnyUK JESUS HEALED ME !!
@@Melody-fu4uz a purely psychological phenomena
Then you aren't so damaged which; means you are healing and that's a good thing.
Hello and thank you for this powerful series. I've been binge-watching them since yesterday and I can say my perspective on the issue has literally evolved. Your statements "we are all a little bit narcissistic" and "we start out as narcissists and grow ourselves out of it" really hit me hard. Opened a whole new door to how I look at the subject, without blaming the abuser, but understanding that they are where they are in their journey from narcissism to genuine self-love. I find it ironic how when you manage to define and exit such a situation, you are able to do so because you have just started loving yourself, after hitting rock-bottom and have nothing else to do except facing and accepting yourself.
Thank you for acknowledging this is real. The journey to learning about narcissism you describe is exactly what happened to me. I was naive and innocent and got trapped by a spider.
Thank you Dr Grande for acknowledging the victims’ suffering!
"Romantic relationships are like car accidents". Thank you for this analogy. That makes me feel a bit more relieved after being recently ghosted. I kept thinking there must be something wrong with me and re-thinking what I did wrong. There was definitely chemistry between the two of us. But maybe I was just caught in a hit-and-run situation. The guy who hurt you didn't really care about how you feel. He could just go on with his own life as if nothing happened.
When im so up in my head, most of the times regarding the people around me i want to have the control on, where well go, what we'll do etc..That naturally comes in my mind what i want and that making it happen, sometimes even using bad words. That being sad, i attempt pretty much everything with a plan of how i want things to happen, relationships including. (i know its ridicilous, but i do that). And if thinga dont go to according to my print i usually let go in my way meaning i let go first in my head and eventually the person figures it out aswell.
I’m sorry to hear that…what I learned from being ghosting is to respect the Dead and Move On..
Wow..you've explained things as clearly as I've ever heard..after 8 years of learning about narcissism. Thank you.
I love Dr Grande !! He breaks it down so simply. Emotional Starvation and a lack of depth was exactly what I experienced from a covert narcissist partner. It it was that, that made me realise my now ex was a narcissist. If your mind doesn't realise you are being abused your body does !!! Your body reacts to how you are being treated, stomach craps, disordered breathing, headaches etc. I also stared having vivid drams / nightmares in which I was consumed with panic and distress with my ex completely disregarding me and almost gloating at my pain. Vile stuff.
Temperature increases slowly: Boiling frog phenomena.
Yep thats what I thought of too. It's a great analogy
Yep, so true in my recent relationship.
I read somewhere that the saying goes, pay attention to how they treat others because that's exactly how they're gonna treat you.
Christina H. It’s not true. My husband treated others very well, almost self sacrificing at times. But behind closed doors he’s a different person. Victims of narcissistic abuse feel very lonely because friends and family never see behind the mask and actually question the victims’ sanity!
usually when dating, if you probe them about past relationships, they'll generally trash others and things were never their fault. I think you have to pay close attention to even how they talk about people from their past. Also, narcissists can portray a wonderful persona but they're always quick to rush a relationship because it is difficult for them to maintain their mask of charm. They can't stand for relationships to develop slowly.
Christina H. He did blame his exwife and their children. Little did I know was that he then blamed me for not going to see his children. He’s a master of manipulation and triangulation
so true - we always think we will be the exception
@@shelchicago8997 yes. I haveproblem coming to terms ..with this as well.. how they are so chameleon like ..they don't like children not even their own flesh and blood... They are too full of themselves to love....i really understand where you are coming from...the victim is always said to be the crazy one...and no one believes a word you say to defend yourself.... They always believe the narc...the abuser... They can maintain their cool facade because they got no empathy whereas we the empath are played by them and chopped up for their amusement... The more you hurt the more they got power...perhaps listening to Dr Grande dark triad. On npd psychopathy and macheviallianism... ( pardon me. Tough word to spell) will let you have a better understanding why it thrills them to hurt people...it will never make sense why they do what they do... But basically they want to watch their effect on you and from there flourish on your emotions... Sick and twisted really but my significant other does it to me all the time... When nobody is around
The "there is no 2nd gear" analogy opened my eyes! I've written it on my mirror to remind me of all u taught me!
TY for making these videos. U have changed my outlook & brought such clarification to light on why I'm my spouse's verbal punching bag. I've felt helpless against him; but u have given me hope for the future. With or without him, I will find myself again & become strong as now I can identify his every trick & shut it down. Though vulnerable & scared, I'm choosing to seek talk therapy to get my mental health well so I can gain a brand new healthy start. 23 years of daily abuse, emotional starvation, chronic anxiety & crippling fear... I want to have a better life so that I can be an even better Momma. I'm so worn from pretending I am fine- when I am surely not fine. It's exhausting. Today, I have HOPE Because of YOU! Thank you Dr. Grande!
Wow! The “there is no second gear” example hit the nail on the head. I am finally ending a toxic marriage after 20 years, and there is no obvious “abuse” I can really prove. Just 20 years of “there is no second gear.” It’s not about the actual words, it’s the delivery and the attitude in which they are conveyed. It is insidious and has slowly destroyed me until I finally ripped the blinders off and knew getting away was more important than staying together because our lives were enmeshed with a house, kids and finances.
Would love to see you talk about relationships as mirrors. We are often more compliant in these relationships than we care to admit. If someone is emotionally starving me, they’re mirroring the lack of love I have for myself... if they take from me without giving, they are mirroring the ways I am giving to everyone else without balancing that with giving to myself... In one way or another, they are showing you something. When you reconcile this and heal your shit, you don’t get into relationships with these type of people anymore.
I would love to see a video on some good tools to apply when beginning to extricate oneself from this type of relationship
Kendra K,You are beautiful 🌹🌷🌺,you don't need a narc 😈 in your life!!
@@christianpulisic7784 I think you really just make a decision that you're done. Sounds easy and it is but getting there was rough! For me it was finally believing that my emotions weren't helping me make good decisions & to go to the rational part of my brain & realize he couldn't give anyone a real connection.
And another comment mentioned listening to your body- so true! If you always feel somehow depleted or "off" after seeing someone than you did before hand- leave!
Yes, that’s my late husband to a T. 20 years of trying to keep all expression out of my face and voice because I never knew what would set him off.
l LOVE the analogy of the car stuck in first gear to the narcissists inability to respond emotionally in a mature and heartfelt way to another person.
I was diagnosed with autism in October. I lost my oldest closest friend of nearly 30 years a few months later, after she put me through a campaign of psychological abuse, which got worse and worse and she then cut me off completely after a disastrous meet up: she insulted me and then ate a meal I had paid for whilst I cried my eyes out in front of her. I have been trying to understand why she treated me so badly. It’s obvious that my diagnosis was an issue for her but when I really thought about it, I realised that she had started to treat me badly several years ago, when my husband and I moved house. We moved to a larger house than hers and for the first time I had something she didn’t have. I knew she could be very difficult to get on with at times but she’d never shown any jealousy until we moved. I missed the signs for so long because I had a very busy, difficult period in my life. However, when I remembered back, I realised that she had never said anything positive about the house, which was odd because it’s in a rural area, and she supposedly loves wildlife. I think my diagnosis was simply the tip of the iceberg. I’ve been trying to understand why she treated me so badly, she has very few positive relationships in her life and I’ve always been there for her: It’s completely illogical for her to push me away. I now think she has a form of narcissistic personality disorder. I have been watching a few of these videos and yours do seem to be well informed, well balanced and well researched. Presumably you’re a psychologist or psychiatrist? I do think that people forget that this is not just an issue in relationships. Just over a year ago I had a manager who was horrible to me. When I suffered a very sudden, unexpected bereavement she smiled at me! A colleague kept saying she was a narcissist but I had no idea what that meant. I can now see where my colleague was coming from. People with this condition have the power to bully people in all areas of their lives, not just their partners, especially people like me who don’t understand non verbal communication. I ended up having to leave that job after just a few months for my own sanity. I think the worse thing is that narcissists have no idea there’s anything wrong with their behaviour, they feel completely justified in their actions and they can’t understand why others are offended or upset by it. I am sure there’s been more than two in my life but they always seem to come out smelling of roses somehow, while I’ll never forget the way I’ve been treated.
I'm autistic, too. I've heard a lot of anecdotal evidence that we tend to attract bullies and manipulative people who might or might not have a diagnosis of narcissism. I have also experienced that in my life.
Thank you for your videos. I want to say that any couples counseling with a malignant narcissist will never be productive, unless you want to be abused by a third party (the counselor) when the narcissist lies to that person about you in front of you, and the counselor is persuaded. This is something I have experienced, and it was retraumatizing. The narcissist seemed to enjoy it, however. Especially after he begged me to go to couples' counseling with him when I told him I wanted a separation. Someone with true pathology will only learn to be a better narcissist through couples counseling.
This is why I refused to attend marriage counseling with my now ex-husband. I knew that he would lie, play victim, fake emotions, pretend to be empathetic, and any manipulative thing to convince the therapist that he would do anything to save our marriage. Once he had the therapist on his side he would stop pretending with me and increase his abuse vindicated. His flying monkeys however were convinced that a therapist would fix me and therefore helped him in an effort to abuse me into seeing how wrong I was and make me desperate financially and emotionally so that I would "reconsider my marriage". The attack was spearheaded by my own narcissistic mother who was determined to prove that she was a good mother and wasn't going to allow me to make what she decided was a mistake. Because he was a normal husband that I didn't appreciate and was making petty complaints about because so many other women had worse lives and marriages than me. More than 17 years later my mother is still slandering my character trying to PROVE to me and others that everything is my fault and now she is the victim of my inability to see that she was only trying to help me.
Thank you for saying that it can be helped with counseling. Many others I have watched all say “get out, there’s nothing that can be done”. Also, “there is no second gear” describes perfectly some relationships that I’ve always wondered about…genius!
Where did he say it can be helped?? He said leaving isn’t always a viable option, but I must have missed the “helped” part. A very small fraction of 1 % of narcissist will ever change at all. Most will use counseling to get much better at being destructive.
Exactly. I don’t know why that person believes narcs change. I’d like to see what study ever produced that expectation because it doesn’t exist
How can someone who believes YOU ARE THE PROBLEM be helped? Thinking they can be helped is TOXIC HOPE and has costed many people their LIVES 😡 They are VERY DANGEROUS and the only way to help them is to HELP YOURSELF and GO NO CONTACT🤷🏾♀️
@@johnholmes6741 As a Life Coach, I NO LONGER accept couples when one is a narcissist. I took ONE couple and will NEVER do it again! It doesn't matter how skilled you are, the narcissist punishes their innocent spouse who has no clue. It's too painful to watch or participate in.
"just as long as it's not directed at me" was my mantra for years. When it started to be directed at me, I could look back and see the subtleties that it always could be.
I went to 8 years marriage and family therapy with my narcissist ex-husband and our blended with a MA and a psychiatrist. I never figured out what was wrong in all that time. Then after 14 years, he beat up my youngest, and he spent the night in jail. I was then working with a CPS therapist when I heard the words emotional abuse and narcissist and they showed me the power and control wheel. That is why the narcissist channels exist, too many counselors fail to recognize what is happening, the narcissist fools and manipulates them, too. That therapist of 8 years was his friend on Facebook.
I am sorry this happened to you...i find npd individuals spent lots of time in deception...Self deception ...too
Hi life... Agree and still cannot believe. .the extent of their deception... Really psychopathic that is all I can say...hang in there...
@@betsycho.b5022 Thank you, it is sometimes still hard to believe.
Hello, could you explain what you mean with ”the power and control wheel”? I am a victim of both parental and spousal narcissistic abuse and I see a psychotherapist since a year back, but this term is new to me. It just seemed like something I should learn more about, it might maybe teach me more about the hamster wheel type of logic I am implementing on myself. Thank you.
Oh my gosh, that is so sad. Maybe this is what keeps so many from seeking help because it is not recognized by some therapist and you end up not getting the proper help. Hugs of support to you.
What a “godsend” you are for those who are in my previous predicament, 30 plus years ago when help and info was difficult to find. It was a long slow learning process, but I finally stopped blaming myself and moved on. I am old now, and “single”, but peaceful and happy. I have learned the games and steer clear. Narcs can be fun people. Just don’t let them take your soul. The only thing we have control over is ourselves.
Hi Sophia..I am afraid my soul....has been taken...trying very hard to come back from the dead....yes it took me a long long time to recognize abuse ...I am happy for you because you found peace...so I hope like you I find peace and harmony..thanks
You end up so low when someone does this to you...
It's incredibly destructive
Thank you! I watched this hoping to learn about someone a friend is in a relationship with.
Instead, I saw myself and a former husband.
I felt a weight lifted from my heart, finally knowing that I was not actually at fault for the, as you said, ‘insidious manipulation’ and hurtful remarks. There was also the lack of empathy and caring. I could go on and on.
It’s all clear now nearly 20 years later. Thank you again.
I was going to make a comment also about how a person with behaviors like NPD can show extreme kindness to strangers with no particular obvious benefit to themselves ( except of course to impress others or themselves), and then turn around and be utterly cruel to those closest to them. I experienced this which contributed to my confusion and increased my pain when abandoned. I witnessed this in a male family member of this person as well. Someone who would fix anything for someone else. What was also confusing was that this person would say they “hate” a particular local news person for no apparent reason and continually state this each time this person appeared. I guess we all have those well known people we don’t like or can’t stand for some reason, but to declare hate seems a bit much. Because of this, I wonder if I am now that person in conversation with the new person and with family. I never even knew about narcissism or realized how much emotional abuse I had endured, before I was abandoned for someone else after a very long marriage and had to try to figure it out. Thanks for your videos, Dr. Grande.
wow just described my husband to a T!!!! i feel so betrayed
YES! Spot on, especially number 3 (the insidious nature of narcissistic abuse)! More confirmation and validation. Thanks, Dr. G! 👍💯
Thats right my lovely!
I really would like to see you discuss how a parent can teach their teenage and adult children ways to recognize and avoid relationships with narcissists like their other parent. For example, when I was between 13-25, and asked my father why my mother was rude and neglected me. I wish he had not made excuses for her behavior, but discussed when he realized she was a narcissist and what he learned in therapy (to never choose another partner like her). This would have helped me immensely to learn what to avoid, but he said he didn't want to talk badly about her. I would like to change this for the generations of my family going forward. Suggestions from you would help me, but I feel the discussion needs to occur in communities like yours to help many others.
This is an excellent point, Michelle. Many tears were shed, hearts were damaged and lives injured by lack of knowledge, awareness when one endured a malignant narcissistic parent. This does need to be opened up and the next generations need to be armed with this knowledge and how to spot a malignant personality like this going forward so as to avoid the pitfalls of potential broken marriages and other relationships. That would be due to their developing psyches registering this errant behaviour on the part of their narcissistic parent as "normal" when it was anything but that. One feels compelled toward this end especially after having witnessed the destruction of entire families that were led (or really "mis-lead" ) by a destructive narcissist at the helm.
Oh my goodness, "leaving might not be a viable optuon". So incredibly on point.
This is the first time I’ve seen a video that addresses the slow progression of narc abusive behaviors. I thought I was the only fool to have missed it before it was too late.
you saw the signs...we all did...the mire you stay they improve in some ways but other ways get worse depending in the individual....we just got deeper and deeper in....
Reflexiones De La Biblia yep!!
Thank you Dr. Grande for stating that it can be difficult to identify the narcissist early in the relationship. I married a man who I believe to be suffering from NPD. (I know I am not qualified to diagnose him.) Prior to our marriage, I just believed my husband to be very confident and found this trait very attractive to my co-dependent personality. It was only after suffering from his lack of empathy, his arrogance, his two-year old tantrums, his coldness, his gas-lighting and manipulation of me and everyone else in his life etc. that I began to seek answers. I truly had never met anyone quite like this man.Learning what was going on and what was wrong was life-altering. I know now what is going on and I have learned how to handle this situation effectively until I determine my future. Thanks to you, and a few other reputable experts, I am healing, growing, and have turned the focus on me and off him.I do believe that this is the key to my future...healing me so that I don't fall victim to another narcissist.
Dr Grande thank you so much for this explanation. The temperature kept rising and I didn’t notice it. When abuse has always been a part of your life sometimes you don’t recognize narcissists . Also, thank you for the insight and reassurance that the answer isn’t as easy as just leaving after 25 years. This video will save a lot of women from heartache if they learn & heed the warnings.
Two points that resonated with me :first, “There is no second gear”, when referring to the ability of people to be caring or sensitive, and secondly, that people who show unpleasant behavior towards others will eventually get around to treating you poorly. It reminds me of the Queen Bee girl bully personality.
This should be taught in schools maybe instead of sex education. It sure would’ve opened my eyes many years ago.
Wow, i literally was gonna comment that Exact thought. You are SOOOO Right!!
Instead of?
No, along with. The aspects of biology and health that come with sex Ed are important, but it's just as (if not more) important to learn healthy boundaries, how to identify abuse, etc.
Both need to be taught.
Laurie Hobin I said the same thing! How can we get this "CHANGED" seriously! Because this is a horrible continous "CYCLE"!
Rebekah Castro m
Absolutely...
'The way she treated her ex is the way she will treat you'
My wife and I were driving the old lemons we had each inherited from our upbringing, but immediately after the collision, found ourselves driving away together in a brand new Ferrari.
This is so true. They will show others such selflessness and generosity. The ones they isolate are the ones that they are neglecting and refusing those things and convincing them they are unworthy of such gifts.
Insidious / Manipulation Narcissism. Yes. I know this form of Narcissism all to well. It's horrible to live with someone who has this. 😔
This is one of the best explanations of narcissistic abuse that I’ve come across. Thank you so much Dr. Grande!
Wrong wrong wrong!
My narcissist was always very nice and generous to neighbors and friends. Charming and kind to strangers. But to me and the kids he was a monster.
That’s what doc said.
Dr. Grande, I love the "car accident" comparison. I had an accident where the car was coming at me in the other lane. I could tell they were crossing the line and that the driver wasn't looking at the road, however I had a guardrail on my side with water running underneath a small bridge where the collision point was going to take place. I had 2 options: intentionally crash my car into the guardrail which may or may not have be safer and may or may not have allowed me to escape the on-coming vehicle OR hold onto my steering wheel and pray to God that the driver sees me and corrects their vehicle. I chose the latter. It didn't go well for me as they hit me head on doing 30 miles above the speed limit. I feel like this relates to my life as I am surrounded with narcissists with no safe exit.
The second gear analogy was brilliant and one I will remember. Some people just can't....and it's that simple. Thank you DrG; great stuff.
Hello Dr. Grande. I was married to a narcissist for 13 years. I left him 2 years ago and am working on becoming more trusting. I’ve noticed that in the time I was married I also became emotionally unavailable to people in general and manipulative towards the narcissist. Can you talk about the changes that can come about to the spouses personality after living so long with a narcissist. I also have a son with the narcissist. My son has to see his father but my son says he doesn’t know how to handle his dad when he gets really upset. How can I help my son manage his dad without making me sound like I’m taking bad about his father. It’s so hard to be tied to a narcissist and I want to help my son.
Evie I'm in exactly the same situation. My ex will not accept that our marriage is over. My son has lots of issues which he needs counselling and treatment for and I'm legally obliged to involve his father in decision making even though he is the cause of my son's problems.
It sounds so easy to go "no contact" but the narcissist uses whatever he can to keep control and that often means through using the children. My ex constantly sends me messages about how we must "work together" to help the children. It's so frustrating. By "working together" he means going along with his brainwashing of the children.
Yes! The changes that victims see in themselves from dealing with the narc! By the time our relationship ended, he accused me of being the narcissist! I gave him everything and anything while receiving nothing in return and immeasurable chances for him to change. However when I realised that was not happening, I for sure changed the way I interacted with him! I don't think that makes me the narc. I was just trying to not be abused! And not have a mental breakdown!
Counseling may be an option? We did that. She insisted on going alone the first few times (hence manipulate the therapist). The counseling was a joke. She just projected to the counselor the exact same things I told her. It was like listening to a recording. It was kinda spooky to be honest. I've been discarded like trash and treated with the outmost contempt. We're divorced now and I'm still trying to come to terms with everything that happened. It was a rollercoaster and of course it was all my fault. I was also getting afraid if it was Jackyl or Hyde who was coming home the last few months. I told her I got a bit afraid and got very stressed of her behaviour. You know what the answer was? "You see, I can't stay with someone who is afraid of me!" Really, I ask you, how do you respond to that! Devious creatures they are....and I'm the one on medication now to heal from the raw pain and depression. At least I realise I will get better.
edit: if I sound angry, I admit, I am. I'm in this angry stage of the grieving process. Being emotionally depleted and got your identity erased, well, I'm allowed to be furious. I know it will pass..
I know exactly what you are saying. After years of this crap, you are so angry that you allowed it for so long without realizing what the heck. Just having a sibling with this nutty behavior has had this effect on me. I trying to recover from it now that I am aware of what it is. Such deep dark pain is all they give you. Yes, you can recover now, but they will carry on as if nothing ever happened or that you ever existed. It is disgusting for sure.
ruby The sibling situation is difficult for sure. My sister is like that, and my ONLY solution after years of trying is total disconnection.
Yes that is familiar. "I can't stay with someone......" the blanks changes from week to week.
From. ."..who doesn't like how I talk to them, get someone else." .."has a. physical
condition..." etc.
I feel ya' all too well, but I'm not out I feel trapped. 😔
Blessings to you and may you heal ad get better each and everyday. 🙌
Mine did the same thing. I told him he was gaslighting me and I thought he was a narcissist. He convinced the therapist it was the other way around. Everything I say about him he just flips it on me, without even knowing what it means. It is crazy making. Any time I say I can't do this anymore he says yeah I can't do this anymore.... And I'm like what can't you do anymore? I'm not doing anything to you. I'm still with mine and it ruins every part of my life
Incredible. This describes my relationship of 13 years. I'm trying to get out and the pain of it all is surreal. Thanks for the upload.
That’s been the first man I dared and was in a relationship with after my husband passed away and I think the grief I was in made me give in to hiss manipulation I heard and I discovered he’d been unfaithful and he got mad at me for knowing and he’d holler at me for knowing and abused me with viscosity verbally because he hurt me emotionally and he lied and he still lies even though I broke up with him but the beauty of it is I have the truth in messages and screenshots. He has never been sorry about anything he she ever.
You expose the mystery of my wife’s narcissism. Hang off your every word. Trapped; no way out. Bless you.
Love your precision and logic, Dr. Grande.
Wow, the directional portion of the talk sat with me so deep. I saw my ex partner directing hostility, cruelty, and other negative acts towards the outside world. But never thought it could ever be directed towards me, but when than reality hit. Appreciate the insight and information. Helps ease the pain a little.
This has been the best example of these traits that I’ve ever heard. Thank you!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, with such a sensible explanation... insidious abuse is hard to pin point early on and in a romantic relationship we want to take the other person’s narrative in good faith, even expensing our own gut instinct and ignoring the signs... so true if somebody can be abusive, arrogant, deceitful & manipulative to others they will eventually be to their partner... abuse also changes the chemical balance in our brains in adults and children... I think this type of valuable information should be taught in schools , equipping people for life = less victims for abusers to target and much emotional damage & pain avoided for so many 🙏🏼
I appreciate what you touched on near the start of the video, being the difference between narcissistic traits (which we all have) and a narcissistic person. As you discuss towards the end, so often the difference is not identified until lives are too entwined to separate. For so long, the reasonable person can clearly see the traits, but explain them as "nobody's perfect". It's often only after many years that the pervasiveness of narcissism can be identified.
As always, I found this content of yours so helpful, Dr. G. Some of these older videos of yours on this topic are calming and re-centering me today. ❤️
Wow. Out of 100s of videos I’ve watched on the insidious nature of narcissistic abuse, it is in this one that you have most closely modelled my experience via your apt description and use of the language & behaviours that have punctured my life and my soul over the past 4 years. Thank you 🏆