Malignant Narcissism
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- Опубліковано 17 лис 2022
- In this episode, Dr. Ettensohn clarifies the concept of Malignant Narcissism, drawing on the model developed by theorist Otto Kernberg. Common misconceptions are dispelled. Object Relations Theory is used to discuss the origins of both NPD and Malignant Narcissism, highlighting developmental differences between each disorder.
Two meanings of malignant narcissism are discussed:
1. Malignant narcissism is a combination of narcissistic personality, antisocial traits, ego-syntonic sadism, and paranoid thinking that represents its own personality constellation distinct from Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
2. Malignant narcissism represents a phase or episode of narcissistic pathology in which repressed or split-off identifications with sadistic objects rise to the surface and become enacted in relationships. This is often due to loosening of grandiose defenses in psychotherapy.
Link to Episode discussing Borderline Personality Organization referenced in the video: • Is It Vulnerable Narci...
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References:
Ettensohn, M.D. (2011). The relational roots of narcissism: Exploring relationships between attachment style, acceptance by parents and peers, and measures of grandiose and vulnerable narcissism. (Doctoral dissertation).
Goldner-Vukov, M., & Moore, L. J. (2010). Malignant narcissism: From fairy tales to harsh reality. Psychiatria Danubina, 22(3), 392-405.
Kernberg, O. F. (1970). Factors in the psychoanalytic treatment of narcissistic personalities. Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association, 18, 51-85.
Kernberg O.F. (1984). Severe Personality Disorders. New Haven, CT: Yale University Press.
#npd #narcissism #mentalhealth #mentalhealthawareness #dsm #psychology #healing #psychoanalysis
I will remove comments that are abusive to any individual (including myself) or population. This includes comments that are abusive toward pwNPD.
You just mentioned the unconscious, I have an INFJ personality and believe that the unconscious does not exist but rather the right hemisphere which is aphasic but communicated by intuition. Language and logic are both left-hemispheric functions. Therefore the Ni-Ti loop in the InFj personality with the right hemisphere picking the material for the left hemisphere to rigorously logically evaluate and fit into the big picture. Therefore intuition is a better choice of words than the unconscious mind.
It is said that the original fairy tales had evil mothers but that was rewritten to step mothers to make the stories more palatable- saleable. One of the greatest taboos remaining is The Evil Mother.
Interesting take.
And truly, ironically it’s the reality of life for many children. It’s terrible how society often outright shuts out this problem as well.
So glad you point this out. It is a total myth that a mother cannot intentionally harm her child. My stepmother and I did not always get along but in the final outcome she proved to be one thousand times more mother to me than my bio-mom!
If I'm understanding this correctly, it would explain why "empaths" tend to be the common "target" of abuse by malignant narcissists. By showing compassion and attempt at understanding, they are evoking a defensive response, because the malignant narcissist genuinely feels attacked by such behavior
It's honestly very sad that the people who really want to help them and be there for them are unwittingly hurting them the most (which is then reciprocated)
This actually really helps me understand my older sister and the fact that being cruel to others seems to give her relief. Our father was very sadistic and abusive towards her.
So what now?
Yes, they feel relief, they feel joy.
Some people feel relief from raping and killing, and?
@@Wasp239Understanding & compassion doesn't = no consequences for the actions
Doesn't = its all OK
No-one is saying that
Same here
I stay away from her, but have loads of compassion for her why she is the way she is 😢
Same here. Totally Blow's
Same here
I’ve listened to various descriptions of personality disorders/illnesses but it’s when I hear the description of malignant narcissist that every time I’m slapping the table saying “yep! That’s it, hits the nail on the head”. Every little detail the sadism, the paranoia, the inability to understand that other people have their own mind and h thought process. All exactly describes my soon to be ex husband and I would see it but didn’t know how to even put it in words. Just always felt very disturbed and chaotic.
The therapist triggers the fight or flight response and defense mechanisms to activate. Because this topic triggers a lot of memories of really bad experiences. I don’t know if I have NPD, but I definitely have BPD and too much of these videos is overwhelming. Even though I have released myself from the constant state of fight or flight I feel the anxiety returning just from peeling apart the layers of my damage and how I responded and how I treat people today.
"None of us is responsible for the events that shaped our personality, but we are responsible for what we do about it.
The better you come to know yourself, the more empowered you become to make better decisions."👏👏👏
Oof. This was hard. I'm a disabled veteran, on my mental health healing journey. You just explained my childhood and why I joined the Army in a time of war. Now to share this with my MH provider and try to grow past these toxic patterns. Thank you.
The problem is a core lack of empathy and not being able to see another individual’s personhood. Also, there is a problem with muted conscience. Another huddle is the substance abuse disorder that almost always occurs alongside npd.
This was so my ex-husband. As far as I can tell, he practiced sadism only against me. He definitely got pleasure and stress relief from torturing me, and he almost did succeed in causing my death. Toward all others, he only ever wanted to appear to be a hero, a good guy, and a genius. He skillfully hid his torture of me from others, but our daughter did see some of it. Then she began to abuse me too...
Another interesting factor is that I think all three of us are autistic, but only our daughter has been diagnosed. I observed that he treated our gifted daughter as I suspect he had been treated by his mother (who is a very strong person, and obviously narcissistic).
Near the end I told him a couple of times that he was either incredibly emotionally stupid or an evil genius, and I just wasn't sure which. At that time he pulled out all the stops to try to end me with psychological torture and utter cruelty.
Was I faultless? Of course not. But I did want us to love each other, and I did love him, which only made things worse. How sad that he was incapable of being loved.
This describes everything I just went thru with my husband who is a diagnosed Malignant Narcissist. I didn’t know what a narcissist was before this. He turned sadistically evil…It all started making sense once I learned. These have been the worst two years of my life as well as the most threatening and frightening. Thank you for your concise explanations.
Before I watched your video, I was under the impression that once his defense mechanisms kicked in, the pendulum of his psychopathy became more severe and he lost touch with reality. It was scary and traumatizing.
Mine poisoned us
The Sociopath I know (4 days ago) was threatened with eviction, and so physically threatened his landlord. He told him "You ruined my life, and now I will ruin yours." So, he went into the apartment and set fire to the building. He didn't care about the threat to anyone else's life in the building. He was put in prison for 1 count of aggravated arson (setting fire to an occupied building).
Wow! My ex who I identify as a dark empath, malignant narc, machiavellian and socio was arrested late last year for M. I spent 10 years with him bc he wouldn't let me get away from him. I can't believe he has committed such an act. His problem was that he'll torture you to the brink of end to get what he wants and I think this time he went too far.
This is why iij have no sympathy for them. They have no problem with making other peoples lives a living hell
As someone who is trying to get better with malignant narcissism, this is extremely accurate and one of the best descriptions I’ve seen of my pathology. I sent it to my partner because it made me feel seen and understood.
You are awesome 🎉
How do you know someone with malignant narcissism can/wants to heal? Is that even possible for all or is there a point where they're too far gone or can never reach healing? My comment about my husband is below. He has the same thing and I've seen outreach but then withdraw and cold hatred...which he is displaying right now. I tried everything with him... Prayer, church, therapy both individual and couples and he only ever said they were supposed look into it... It's so sad but I can't help him, I tried everything and now I have to protect my children because of his history of violence.
@dammitdelta ... How did you learn that you are a malignant narcissist?
I think I am malignant I feel sick I knew something was wrong I thought I was stressed and my moods then I thought something isn't right I'm not me anymore questioning myself am I too sarcastic putting others down underneath I was so unsure n down but in an instant when my ex asked for a break I became a monster I overeacted vented to family which has caused a smear I really am suicidal I can't forgive myself for realising I abused him I have hurt our kids why am I hurting people now I'm hurting people more cause I can't undo this how do I tell everyone I am evil and how do I stop manipulating
How do we get better when we have hurt everyone I feel bad for the hurt I caused but I am causing more hurt
My mum was a malignant narcissist, I walked away 8 years ago, she died about 2 years ago and I thought the nightmare was over, how wrong I was. One of older sisters who contacted me about our mother dying has taken her place, she's manipulated our dad into giving her everything in his Will when he passes, he's told me he has to do as he's told because she does so much for him. I'm not aloud to go see him and nor am I aloud to have any of my mums things. Unfortunately my daughter has genetically inherited this narcissism too and im going to have to go no contact with her as well as my father. I have done everything to try stay in these toxic relationships but all it does is continue to make me feel like im the bad one, things I did 45 years ago are thrown at me for why I'm being treated like this, even going no contact makes me feel like a bad person. It's an awful situation to be in but I have to leave them behind.
❤ Praying for your strength and healing 🙏😌
I don't think narcissism is passed down genetically . You should have a good look at yourself
@@theblackrainbow1 ok, is that why now my dad has asked me to come down to see him because he knows the way I'm being treated is cruel and he's giving me my mums English blue and white dinner set and has now given me her gold and ruby ring. You seem to have the answers to my family history, what's your interpretation of that????
@@theblackrainbow1 in other words......naff off,
@@tinkingtinking2134 okay . Your response sheds a bit of light on it all . NPD is not a genetic disorder
I found that very helpful, thank you. I've finally gone no contact with my surviving parent, my mother. I tried to do it years ago, when I was in my early 20's. For both my parents as both repeatedly made my childhood a living nightmare. But a well meaning family member let my mother into my home back then as I couldn't get to the front door first or try to explain just a fraction of the actual situation.
It's been incredibly hard to recently understand my parents & the true extent of what I've been dealing with. Especially as my dad is now passed.
My dad was very detached. & the tiny family budget after essentials, was all his to enjoy himself away from home. He wasn't as scary, dominant, loud & cruel as my mother. But more cold & furtive.
When he passed my mother got worse. I didn't think it was possible. For my own safety & sanity, I was left with no other choice but to go no contact recently.
I appreciate that there's a raft of behavioural traits within any disorder. That sometimes the person with the disorder feels helpless themselves. Worse still, they're destroying the most precious relationships in their lives.
My mother went to counselling years ago. Sadly that made her worse if anything as all the therapist did was give her another stage to solo perform on, without touching on the real reasons.
I'd urge anybody who thinks that they may have a personality disorder to seek proper, professional, constructive help. I've known two people in my life who passed, when it looked like they were agitated. It was like by the time they really tried to speak honestly, they were in their final hours of life and unable to. It's so sad.
I got you’re book 📖 . This explanation of NPD is a lot closer to my personal experience . I’ve had to watch this repeatedly
My younger sister is either a malignant narcissist or a sociopath. I don't recognize anything that's being posed here. I consciously remember her birth. And when she was a couple of months old she began crying relentlessly. I have not seen any sadistic abuse towards her, quite the contrary. When she was 6 months old, suddenly the crying stopped and she became extremely violent. Everytime I (or anyone else) came close she would do everything she could to hurt that person in the most vicious way). She had serious behavioural problems and all the time she was treated like a princess. I cannot subscribe to the notion of abuse causing NPD. I was the one who was systematically abused by almost all family members, including my younger sister. She was treated with all the attention and she always got what she wanted, most of the time at my expense. I believe there is something else going on. Later I had a narcissistic partner who also told me that he cried a lot when he was a child. And after the crying stopped, narcissistic behaviours came up. He claimed he was never abused in any way by his family.
Around 6 months, your sister started to eat solid food? Maybe can be an hidden allergy or intolerance?
@@CharlyArea my sister was extensively examined by several doctors and specialists. No physical cause was found.
@@PegasusysTarotClub Thanks for your answer. I could see with my own eyes in a near person, as hidden allergy can transform the behaviour in the terms similar as you described.
I'm not specialist, but I have the feeling, a group of people with hidden allergies, can shows behaviour which they can go inside by the label "NPD".
@@CharlyArea That's something that should be looked into. It would be amazing if people with behavioral disorders could be treated! If allergies can cause that, (which I wasn't aware of) that could be a relatively easy fix for these issues!
Would you mind sharing what specific allergy was causing this? Or is it a general effect of allergies?
@@PegasusysTarotClub In the case I met, the link was with chocolate / caffeine. When this person stopped to consume it, the behaviour changed tremendously.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK436949/
I recommend you to read this study.
I am not telling always the cause of NPD is because of it, but, I could see with my own eyes, this person had a lot of patterns of NPD, and when stopped it, the behaviour was from rage to a better mental calm state.
When you told about the story of your sister, and you mencionated the age of 6 months like a change on her, to me had sense to think was the age when she started to receive solid food.
Maybe, a part of people could be inside in the label "NPD", can have an allergy is producing this patterns. Because if the brain has inflammation, has all sense to show an "anormal" behaviour.
I agree with your perspective. It makes a lot of sense. Very enlightening. My malignant narcissist ex was just like you described underneath. Here are some of my observations and conclusions from our relationship: in my non- expert opinion I feel that they have zero distinction beetween themselves and other people - especially those significant others. No respect for boundaries because they CANNOT see them. Everyone around them is just an extension of their SELF, not a separate human being. They will sadistically emotionally abuse significant others just as they sadistically abuse themselves. The latter happens largely subconsciously, the former - I'm still not sure to this day.
Mine screamed into our faces "NO! You are just EXTENSIONS OF ME! You are just parts of MY BODY! You should like what I LIKE! You should feel what I FEEL! You should BE MORE LIKE ME!" Many, many times over the years. There is no reasoning with them, no reaching their heart or mind, and no safety.
I still watch this months later .
My friend was abused as a child. He spoke to me about it. Told me that if these things would not have happened to him, his life would have been completely different. I pray for him but I could have stay with him. He was very abusive to me. He could not help himself.
Thia video just summed up my mother word for word, it's taken 13 years of research to whittle down what exactly is wrong with my mother i this has confirmed my research pointing to a malignant narcissist. Thank you so much❤
Arrested Development, Bad Parenting.. Peace, Peace. Peace. I like how well you articulated this topic, thank you. Be Well.
Villains in cartoons are actually a very accurate depiction of narcissists/malignant narcissists. For those of us married to them it’s just shocking realizing that person was a villain pretending to love you to get what they want from you, steal your personality, things you have, etc.
I experienced an almost 2 year entanglement with a malignant narc / psychopath / cluster b (I saw all traits back to back most of the time) and I stand firm. no compassion. the worst encounter I've have ever had full-stop....
that 'person' was setting me up to die.....they love inflicting harm and they play everybody, even family....and after being blocked for over 2 years, still calls my phone, ending up in blocked messages.
I changed my phone number.
I am so appreciative of your videos. So refreshing compared to the demonizing views found online. It seems to me though partners of these malignant narcissists are still better off not cohabiting with them. I have experienced destruction of my life due to this relationship. I had no idea what I was dealing with for 18 years. Now I know but what to do?
I agree. Malignant narcissism can be dangerous due to the paranoia, sadism, and psychopathic traits.
Make discreet plans to move away if you haven't already.
New information has opened the idea that narcissistic personality is now able to slide on the scale...
I've been involved with NPDs, I have absolutely no compassion for them. My childhood was far from normal, but I didn't take it out on my loved ones or others.
I think it’s a common misconception that different forms of abuse or relational trauma are somehow interchangeable - like if one person had a difficult childhood but didn’t develop these particular issues it is somehow a reflection on their strength - as though they had some choice in the matter of what pathways got laid in their brain in response to events that were outside of their control. The fact is, if you or I had the exact same childhood and the exact same genes as someone who suffers from NPD, then we, too, would suffer from NPD.
@@healnpd I wouldn’t be so absolute…
@@melliecrann-gaoth4789 Brain scans have shown that their brains shrink from the abuse. They probably have a genetic predisposition to it as well since it seems to run in families and goes back generations.
Absolutely 💯 I’m sick of excuses for bad behavior!!
@@healnpd they know exactly what they are doing! They choose to abuse!!
Thank you for your compassion and expertise. I feel both camps of the UA-cam approaches are needed. Living with a pwNPD had been so destructive to me and my children. We believed in compassion and care for the pwNPD. It was weaponized against us and now we have so much to heal from. Please consider both are true, and yes the pwNPD is treated very harshly. They have treated us closet to them very harshly and we need someone to validate the way we have been treated by the pwNPD.
Right
It is important to be validated too, esp. if you're still in that toxic relationship, you most likely have to get away for the wholeness of you and your children. Do watch out for channels that validate though, because they can keep you stuck in a victim mindset that isn't healthy for eventual healing. There does need to be a balance. If you were in a sadistic type of relationship like what he describes in this video, then all my sympathies, and please get away. This does not seem to be most narcissists though.
Great video. I have had a very troubled relationship with what is I believe is a malignant narcissistic or sociopathic (is there a difference in meaning there?) mother. She has obvious ego-syntonic sadism, I can often see in her eyes that watching me suffer gets her "high" as if she had drunk a good glass of whisky. Literally I would say she often has evil eyes, but only with me, not with other people. She suffered from post partum depression as a result of my birth "getting in the way of her needs" and ever since I can remember I have been her emotional punching ball through constant verbal and emotional abuse including threats of murder and suicide.
Now away from that "woman", I suffer myself from what I would describe as a mix of BPD and schizophrenia : I have very severe abandonment issues, no impulse control (substance abuse notably, as you may have guessed from the whisky reference), severe paranoia (targeted but also oftentimes generalised), moments of confusion, physical "hallucinations" (like feeling needles in my veins), compulsive ruminations and constant derealisation/depersonalisation/doubt about reality/existential terror.
I don't feel like I have ego syntonic sadism eventhough my empathy is low. I have a delusion of negating the existence of my own body. I was wondering if any of those symptoms make you think I suffer from some form of narcissism and am at risk for being malignant? I know it's not really the subject of your video but any answer would be welcome.
Best regards
You seem to have much self-awareness. I would encourage you to see a therapist, which I am not. Thank you for your story, it hits home a bit for me! I wish you good fortune leaving the addictions alone. Please get help with that. You're worth sobriety!
THANK YOU, for explaining this in an easy ‘ish way for a layperson to understand.
There are so many types of narcissism it can be difficult to discern.
Looking forward to watching more.
Wow! I'm so glad I just found your channel... :)
This is the most informative video I've watched on the subject of narcissism.
The information laid out here confirms my own conclusions about the disorder and the malignancy, especially the sadism part. I'm so proud of myself that I came to these conclusions without studying medicine or psychology!
High five! Same here! Knowledge is empowering!
I'm just starting to watch this, but I'm pretty sure not all narcissists are malignant.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 But this video is specifically about malignant narcissism.
@@Analysis_Paralysis Yes it is. Maybe I misread how you meant. It sounded like you'd concluded that all narcissists are malignant and sadistic. Apologies if you were only referring to malignant narcissism, which certainly is that way.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 Yeah, I was just referring to this subtype.
I found this very helpful in understanding the behavior of someone I have to deal with. Your description of malignant narcissism explains a lot.
Thank you for your perspective, which is quite rare considering current popular sources for cluster b disorders. Your approach (hypothesizing the origin of NPD as well as it's manifestation in the adulthood) "feels" more accurate when I compare it to my personal experience.
I'm so glad to see/hear a knowledgeable, qualified professional making this distinction. Thank you.
You and Sam Vaknin have my attention. Thank you, very educational. I extremely like the compassionate flavour you bring. We both have to protect ourselves from people with narcissistic personality disorder and we have to be open to understanding the traumatic effects people with NPD suffer from.
This is the best explanation of this I’ve ever seen. I will be watching this video again and checking out those papers. My father is exactly like this and I have spent a sizable percentage of time in my life around others like this. Mostly in the past now, thankfully.
Glad it was helpful!
This video is one of the most informative videos on malignant narcissism I’ve ever watched.
Thank you so much for sharing your excellent understanding with us! Incredible work! You've filled in SO many blanks.
Woow, this is profound, it is so helpful for my healing journey from malignant narcissism, a very brutalvtype of narcissism. However through this video i have gained objectivity when looking at narcissism especially the likelihood of the root cause. Woow, thank i am today your follower, after having listen to many, your presentation is paramount. Thank you
Thank you for your clear explanation
This gave me chills. This was my ex partner to a T and he camouflaged it behind kink/BDSM attempting to masquerade as a Dominant. He had all of these traits. All of them. The fact that he tries to camouflage it and just claim he is kinky indicates to me he’s very self aware of what he is. I got discarded as soon as I told him I believe he is a narcissist or antisocial. He already had another person lined up and had been carrying multiple hidden relationships with others behind my back
Significant psychopathy and sadism in a personality can make the individual quite dangerous under the right circumstances. Glad you are taking care of yourself and leaving relationships that aren’t healthy for you.
Indeed, "None of us is responsible for the events that shaped our personality. However, we are responsible for what we do about it. The better you come to know yourself, the more empowered you become to make better decisions." ❤
Thank you for sharing this vital information. You helped me to understand people who are suffering from this disorder ❤❤❤❤
My daughters father and daughter have this. I'm genuinely concerned.
Beautifully articulated.
THANK YOU FOR THESE RELIABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION WHEN IT COMES TO NARCISSISM MANY PSYCHOLOGISTS ON YOU TUBE DO MORE ARM THAN GOOD
I burst into tears watching this. This is my identical twin. I'm heartbroken to know that this can't be fixed easily even though I was forced to go no contact because of her extreme gaslighting among other things. THIS is the content I need: factual education, NOT the drivel otherwise out there on UA-cam that just demonises the narcissist, however cruel he or she is. That simply doesn't HELP! Thank you so much for this video.
I’m glad you found it helpful. Thanks for watching!
The fact that you are heartbroken is very painful. Thus the videos that you say "demonize" NPD are expressing that. I don't anyone who says narcissists are evil or doing everything on purpose. Mostly they are not. But the damage still happens and we must deal with that.
Woah, this is coming from your twin? What happened?
@@intodewood0598 I always knew our relationship wasn't normal. She bullied me, beat me up, and told lies about me and to me ever since I can remember. I should have cut her off after I received a letter from her wife telling ME off for having beat HER up our whole lives! Wtf. I finally did stop contact after my heart quite literally broke (it failed). She can live in her own world, but I don't have to prop it up for her as she expects.
@@CraigVerdi-MindfulMoney I appreciate your view that they aren't doing everything on purpose. Some really aren't! But the ones in my family calculate, plan... it becomes obvious after the fact. So it appears our experiences diverge a bit. Thank you for your care and concern.
My mother was a textbook malignant narcissist. She was the middle child and both of her siblings are normal and well-adjusted adults. So I believe some people are simply born this way.
What is the psychological breaking point in our childhood that decides if we're going to be either overly empathetic with people pleasing tendencies OR extremely self-centered with malignant tendencies? What is the moment or trait that determines the final coping strategy?
Choice. - I was abused physically and emotionally daily since birth for 2 decades. I was also r@ped at 18. I genuinely thought I'd be killed by Dad and only stayed to protect my Mum, sister and cat (he despised women and animals). My Mum and Dad blackmailed me into not telling anyone and I thought he'd kill my family if I did. I've been empathic since I was a young kid and would never abuse anyone.
And I'm not overly empathic. I don't give it to the wrong peolle unless such people manipulate out of me... When I find out they're being manipulative I go permanent no contact. But I believe I am a 'super empath', as HG Tudor (a self confessed 'greater or ultra' narcissist) describes in his videos.
@@Narcissism-TheDarknessintheWorI don’t think it’s a choice,I think it has to do with the temperament of the person which they say one have already at birth and a lot of small details in the brain that affect how we see reality & interpret it.choice is a very slippery slope I think.
@@reflectonthings3008 interesting, it's definitely a combination of factors. I believe to abuse itself is a choice though... In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure why the self centredness starts at such a young age for many of them. 🤷♀️
@@reflectonthings3008 as in I can't wrap my mind around it as I've always had a lot of empathy even when I was a kid... The empathy had already developed maybe not to its' fullest extent, but I remember having the choice to act 'good' or 'bad'... I don't even wanna say bad but 'naughty'... 🤣 Because it wasn't anything major and I never had bad intentions... I remember. Maybe if I'd have been more like my Dad and abused animals or went fishing and been the son he wanted - he said he wanted sons not daughters himself - I'd have received fewer beatings. Couldn't even bring myself to go fishing at a young age because I remember thinking I don't want to hurt the fish - put a hook through their mouth and knife them or crush them as they're suffocating from being out of the ocean. Turns out they can actually feel pain, it's been scientifically proven, so I'm glad I didn't go fishing and erred on the side of caution. 🐟🙏 Another thing that made me feel physically sick is when kids would step on ants in a colony of ants or whatever and deliberately crush them... Couldn't do it, wouldn't do it. Saw a group of boys who had gone crabbing (they had taken crabs from the lake and put them in their bucket) who were grabbbing the crabs from their bucket and cutting off the legs of a crab and laughing then throwing them back into the lake without some of their limbs, and laughing at the crabs as they tried to stumble to the lake... I was infuriated and had adrenaline pumping through me instantly. My Mum and I went up to them and confronted them and made sure they stopped doing that... This is what I mean by perhaps my level of empathy hadn't developed to its' fullest extent, because those boys probably just went off and did it elsewhere because they were smiling when we were confronting them albeit they seemed a bit cowardly at that point as I think we mentioned the authorities and were persistent in our condemning of them being freaks but they were trying to act 'hard'... Nowadays, I would have realised that I was completely justified in my *righteous anger,* realised they'd do it again by the fact that they're still laughing and cut off their fingers and/or hands to make sure they didn't do it again because they were acting 'hard' smiling, albeit they were timid when my Mum and I confronted these freaks of nature... They only acted timid to avoid getting in trouble with the authorities, they were still laughing and said 'it's just a crab'... Who the *fuck* does that to a crab apart from a sadist who thinks he's "Godlike"... Who laughs at a crab while they're cutting of its' limbs and watching it stumble to the lake? FREAKS. That's who. You don't even want to know what I'd do nowawadays. I'm *VERY* impulsive even when it puts me in harms way. I've risked death several times due to witnessing abuse of animals... Why would I care about risking someone elses' life as well, let alone the life of a waste of space abuser? In that moment, I don't have free will, I put myself in harms way because my subconscious mind *completely* takes over... I'm not even joking. At that point I don't register any conscious thought... Because I'm not thinking. I'm angry, I'm hurt, an injustice has occured, correct it immediately, that's all I know... I'm not even thinking that, because I'm not thinking but that's the message coming from the anger that has been triggered by witnessing the abuse of another, *especially an innocent, infinitely precious non-human animal.* Maybe it's due to being abused from a young age but I have a *complete inability* to regulate my own emotions, *especially when I see the abuse of others, and especially when those others are innocent, vulnerable non-human animals who are infinitely precious and Godlike by their very nature.* Evil is evil. I will *NOT* allow for it to happen, especially *NOT IN MY PRESENCE.*
Excellent! I have shared your video with a good friend. Narcissists are not evil they are mentally ill.
Some are definitely evil.
I love your channel and I can't thank you enough for what you're doing! You totally nail it and It's nice to be seen and to be thought of as a person who is in incredible pain instead of the monster most of the Internet and people IRL believe. I was wondering if you'd do a video about a connection between NPD and pathological narcissism and DID and other kinds of plurality. I think a lot of the things you said really feel like a plural experience, particularly with dissociation and splitting. I know they're often co-morbid, but I've not been able to find much about it through internet searches other than harmful and uninformed lists.
Great Video. Very insightful and easy to understand.
Glad it was helpful!
7:10 (Enemies, or fools, or Idols) in individuals. This is amazing precised language thank you so much for this concept! This helps me make sense out of the problems I have with other individuals turning me into another within these three formats. It almost feels like stages that my experience with them go through.
To combat this I have just learned two walk away and move on to other individuals and groups.
In gamer terims. I have learned to level grind friends and groups. So I'm never left stock having to live within this framework.
Your content is thought provoking. The image from narcissistic abuse recovery community of the perennial boogeyman/woman is often oversimplified. Narcissists are damaged people. Codependents are damaged as well and sometimes our maladaptive behaviors can be almost as toxic as that of the narcissists we have served. It’s a vicious cycle particularly damaging to children. At least we’re talking about it. 30 years ago I was met with so much resistance when coming to terms with my own mother’s cruelty. I was expected to try harder, be more understanding but I knew nothing was going to change. This was long before I even knew what narcissism meant let alone scapegoating. It’s important to be compassionate but finding common ground with those suffering from NPD can feel more like you would have better success negotiating with a terrorist!
Dr. MARK, Great 👍 Video, REALLY HELPFUL in understanding the Malignant. WELL EXPLAINED.
I am grateful for you work, GREAT Channel.
Thank You !
Glad it was helpful!
Amazing explanation 🙏
Clearly informative, new subscriber. THANKS
Great editing 👏🏼
Thanks for that
Can there be a malignant form of borderline? Or would it simply mean the person had a comorbidity between the two?
I know someone who has the emotional lability, warmth and affect of Bpd when not triggered (no devaluing, no noticeable grandiosity), but when triggered they would become everything this video described, particularly the sadism, which I came to sadly realise may have been pleasurable and propping up a repressed aspect of self esteem, but your description that it is more about fear- becoming the big bad wolf means you’re less scared of it (I noticed a fear of abandonment also) makes sense as well.
Thank you for describing the difference between this form of Npd and standard Npd, it really helps to explain differences I’ve noticed.
Best content on this topic that I’ve found.
This was a FANTASTIC video & explains why Borderline Organization is observed in various personalities. If you feel that gaslighting or abuse you received was more of a breaking down & destruction you - received as more intense, see Malignant Narricisim in this video series. It may more align with one experience. Thank you for all of your videos.
This was a very cohesive, thorough and clear explanation of this construct. Idk if you take recommendations, but I'd love to hear your opinion on the differences/similarities in the function of projective identification in narcissism vs. borderline.
I do consider recommendations. Thanks for making one. 😊
@@healnpd please, if you consider, your view on what choices we see and make in early childhood that determine if we cope with trauma by being narcissistic or inversely empathetic. I believe the childhood trauma experience may be similar, but the coping mechanism is different. I enjoyed prof.Vaknin"s view that you go through different strategies, e.g. BPD, NPD, psychopathy (for the sake of simplicity), and you stop at the one that finally works for you. Thank you. Live long and prosper :)
Hi. Thank you for this very interesting video. I am interested in learning how to respond to a narcissistic family member who has done a great deal of damage over the course of three decades. Virtually all advice about this I've found is to either go "no contact" or to "grey rock" the narcissist (essentially bore them by avoiding situations where you can get baited). I have no doubt that these methods work in the sense that they can liberate people from the influence of the narcissist, which of course can be hugely important. However, I am also aware that, of course, the narcissist a) didn't choose to be a narcissist, b) doesn't have the self-control or ability to stop, c) is suffering internally; his/her inner experience is filled with powerful negative feelings almost all the time. I don't mean to justify enabling narcissists in any way, but I do question the humanity of the recommended response. Is going no contact/grey rocking the most humane of responses the average person can opt for? Put another way: if we considered NPD as a form of illness, it seems cruel to abandon the ill person and force them to live out the suffering they experience without support. Would we do this for any other illness? If a narcissist's internal subjective experience is filled with suffering, and then - on top of this - has to deal with people cutting him/her off, would this increase the likelihood of depression, drug abuse and even suicide? I've tried to look for reliable information about the latter too but I can't find any evidence one way or another. Do narcissists have a greater than average likelihood to develop suicidal ideation, especially after people have cut off/reduced contact? Sorry to write such a long comment and ask so many questions. Thank you in advance for any thoughts you might want to share about this.
With all due respect, the hurt a narcissist causes can not be overlooked. Talking about NPD as if the sufferer was the victim is very triggering when you are trying to overcome and heal the abuse of a narcisitic mother . I understand she feels bad and worthless and unloved ect . But she categorically refuses to admit she has an issue . Instead she tries to make everyone else around her feel worse so she can get a kick of supply. There are many more mental illnesses and at some stage people with those illnesses recognise there is a problem . But narcissists almost never do . I believe it's out of choice
Why are you continuing to watch content on my channel if you find it triggering? I understand that you may have stumbled across the first video you commented on, saying you found it triggering. But this is now the second video you’ve watched and commented that it is triggering. It’s okay if you are not at a point in your own healing journey where this sort of analysis of the psychology behind pathological or malignant narcissism feels okay to hear. I would recommend you stop watching videos like this and focus on your own healing. Come back to this sort of information when you feel less reactive to it.
@@healnpd okay, I'll stop watching your content . I didn't mean to be offensive . For some time I thought there's no hope that my mother would ever get better and I found your content that says she could, or at least in my understanding. I'm sorry to be a bother
You’re not being a bother. 😊 I’m honestly concerned for your mental health and well-being. It seems like you need to focus on you right now, and getting a better handle on adaptive boundaries with your mother. I hope you’ll come back when it feels safer for your mental health to do so. 🙂
Great video!
Thank you for watching!
Thank you for the video. I absolutely love the guitar music at the beginning and end of your videos. Would you mind sharing what this tune is called?
@Anne….. - Glad you liked the video. The intro music is from a website that helps people build video sequences. I don’t know the name of the riff offhand, but I can look it up. 🙂
@@healnpd Thank you, that is very kind of you and I would appreciate it very much 🌿🦋
@Anne..... - Here you go: ua-cam.com/video/9mxs_Gk7jVY/v-deo.htmlsi=Z-uESQVSWNVs65Bl
Malignant narcissists you say is like a bad cold. I married a malignant narc another worse than a bad cold they are monsters
@user-ds5uj6mj9n - I am not saying that malignant narcissism is like a bad cold. Please watch that part again. I am addressing the relationship between typical narcissism and malignant narcissism and the misconception that malignant narcissism is just a “really bad case of typical narcissism;” which it isn’t.
I am a narcissist but not a malignant narcissist a former friend of mine is and I am very interested about that topic. Thank you for this video and your videos in general
Amazing simplifies version! Theory put into story often helps-even master level clinicians on this subject. Makes me want to continue my Dr 👩⚕️ on this fascinating subject we seem to be encountering more often.
Thanks for your feedback, and for watching. 😊
I enjoy the use of your cartoon characters for understanding better certain malign personality disorders.I pretty much agree with your malignant narcissistic model!😊
Thank you dr. Mark. I really hope this will be in a hundred years be eradicated. No one deserves to feel this and the induced suicidal the narc parents give to their children. I really want to forgive and walk away from the evil cult that killed my mother and my husband. Managed no contact for almost a year. But I cannot have enough to live or retire now and must face the narc. He has been knighted while treating his children and spouses like slaves. God needs him to answer to his sins because I am not able to live and walk away. Please heal them.
That was an excellent video. Very interesting and informative. It highlights a few different ways to think about some events in my past.
Thank you, and please keep up the good work.
Thanks!
Thanks !
Hey Doctor Mark! Nice intro
Thanks! 😊
There should be laws against people with these traits having any right or the privilege to deny their need for treatment, and be allowed in the general population, if they cause significant harm and lasting damage to others for nothing more than to serve their own pleasure and satisfaction !!! To just…allow these types to be unconditionally exposing their recklessness and cruelty just so they can feel comfortable with their insidiously fractured self, is a real threat to public health and safety and should therefore be treated as such!! Just like any other infectious and incurable disease like TB, HIV, or AIDS!
That's a terrible idea
I agree.Dr Ramani position on this would be too
A fascinating description. It would be helpful to expand our understanding of the mechanisms by which malignant narcissism facilitates a fascist political movement- a societal contagion. This is alluded to in the introduction
My sister and i were raised in a loving home. Best parents ever. Yet my sister is a narcist and has caused so much pain in our whole family. So i dont agree on blaming the parents!!!
It's sometimes said that no two children were raised in the same family. Family roles can be dramatically different between siblings, depending on birth order, what's going on in the family when each is an infant, parent health, financial circumstances, etc. Such events can have tremendous impact on one sibling because of their developmental stage when they occurred, while having relatively little impact on the other sibling. I also notice what appears to be some idealization in your comment ("best parents ever"). Do you think your sister would agree with that assessment? If not, what makes her perspective wrong and yours valid? In dysfunctional family systems, there are often specific roles played by the children. One may be the golden child/hero. That child is treated as a good object by the parents and consistently praised, while another child may be the identified patient or family scapegoat. The family will scratch their heads about why that one member is ill or has problems, not realizing that the whole family has been subtly dumping their issues on that family member for decades. Don't know if that's your family, but I've seen it often enough.
Your videos are so informative and I will listen to them again. I'm going through an extremely bad time, one of the 2 men I have put in court, 2 dental people, has denied any wrongdoing, the other has admitted 'failing me', only he didn't just fail me, he lied and this is only because an Expert has failed him. I am having to take the case myself. As a resukt of what has happened to me I have chronic stress and anxiety, I have psychogenic tremor, I also need an operation. The Lies from the first defendant are off the scale, everything he has said, in writing, is a lie.
wow thank you
I have bpd and an addictive personality since December 2013 , I got a docter s note from a specialist.
It a not a mental illness but a personality disorder, if I take medication, your fine.
Drinking is a no no because it s binge drinking , if I know myself I will not get in trouble.
This was an informative video. I love how you clarify things so there’s not any guessing. Like when you broke up border line, I immediately thought you meant me (the personality disorder Borderline personality disorder).
I had a sadistic caregiver and so having support from teachers in elementary, do you think that played a part in me developing BPD instead of another disorder?
My older brother was my sadistic caregivers golden child. I believe my brother has ASPD though he was not abused. It seems like he took on her traits and he would abuse me to get attention from our caregiver (parents abandoned us).
Would Kanika Bantra from UA-cam fit? She identifies with both NPD and ASPD. She has been diagnosed with both formally.
surgically precise, thank you
God Bless You Gurlfriend ✌❤
This sounds 💯 like my ex. I suspected it, definitely called it before. I became so fucking enraged by his caregivers he had no choice to have. Ive cried many nights wishing he never had to be forced to develop like he has, that he never should have faced such cruelty so that he wouldn't become their puppet and let his abusers win by becoming them. I am broken from walking away the final time. I can really feel it's over now and I want that part of my life to be, I have to want to. I understand him and so I forgive him. Hurt people hurt people. A narcissist is just 1 of the most trauma riddled adult child kinda souls who also just needs to be seen and heard. I definitely tried to still keep him in my life while doing so but seriously would end up sacrificing my self finally if I had be with him again. So I do all the seeing and hearing from aAAAALLLLLL All the way over here far away from him, the further the more it grieves me but the better for it my survival mode becomes. I can only send him love , that courage needed to finally 1day wake TF up and taking accountibility for the pain he causes so he can grow and change from it instead of geting so triggered by the risk of even admitting to him self, let alone claiming it out loud to in order heal and become stronger. He refuses to realise that to have true power, is to master 1 self and not others. That's what coward pussies do. I just pay he wakes up and heals. He deserves a chance to be a genuine, healthy good man. And not just play pretend anymore. Don't they get drained from all the superficial pretence eventually? I couldn't do it anymore.... Kept telling me I make up stories in my head, makes sense now. Maybe that's the line he was mostly fed as a child too... I wish he wasn't this way, I so desperately didn't want to believe it. Not about my person😢
They are cultivated, not born. They make them…the best looking child the golden child gets the most abuse and marks them a future predator. They get the honour to carry the line of evil. They r sadistic and hate people and told forced to suck up there emotions and take the pain of abuse without crying.
You just described my older sister to the T.
I do identify with one characteristic of when shown gentle care kindness it brings out cruel hostile much to my disappointment and the best mental health service in UK could not refer me due to poor outcomes.
Would you think that Attachment theory obviously but the avoidant-approach and malignant narcissism are most highly correlated?
My dissertation looked at the relationship between narcissism and adult attachment styles. The grandiose expression was correlated with the dismissing-avoidant style, while the vulnerable expression of narcissism was correlated with the fearful-avoidant attachment style. I did not look at malignant narcissism…but to the extent that malignant narcissism contains aspects of grandiosity, I would imagine it would be more correlated with dismissing-avoidant attachment.
Erich Fromm suggests that narcissists aren't able to form *any* attachments, which makes quite a lot of sense! Their attachment style is non-existent. They simply do not get attached to others.
This is me. I wish i could help myself but it feel so hopeless and angry.
it feels like you, Mr. Ettensohn, are saying only domestic abuse contributes to forms of narcissism, so what about being spoiled and pampered? doesnt that also lead to narcissism? arent spoiled and pamepered indivduals considered grandiose narcissists that have yet to feel insecurity and vulnerability? If not, what would they be considered as?
The literature often points to a particular combination of cold, aggressive, or cruel treatment of the child in combination with overvaluation of the child for one or more favored qualities. While being spoiled or pampered may set someone up to be egocentric or entitled, it would not necessarily create the internal fragmentation and conflict found in pathological narcissism. It’s not enough that the person is entitled or selfish - that alone is not pathological narcissism. This is where the diagnostic criteria of the DSM gets it only 50% right because it largely misses the mental illness part of NPD.
In your question, you use the phrase “domestic abuse,” which is most often associated with physical violence - at least in the US. The kind of early experience (combined with a temperamental or genetic vulnerability) that is thought to contribute to most personality disorders is called relational trauma. It does not have to be overt. It can be the cumulative impact of years of subtle neglect or emotional invalidation, or it can be a sudden and traumatic loss or tragedy in the family sustained at just the right moment in psychological development and that has lasting consequences down the line.
@@healnpd Okay thank you for Clarifying
I do understand your thoughts about this.
My bro was spoiled. Handed everything. I consider him a malignant narcissist becuz if you correct him in the mildest of ways he got physically abusive. My whole family was narcissistic. It has def done a number on my life. Nnow I know what it is I’m going to march forward to a life of me.
My Mom is a cruel Narcissist. You mention this trait is a result of a cruel upbringing.....but, I had the same upbringing and I am an empath. I CHOSE not to be like my Mother. So, why didn't I become a Narc? Not judging, just curious. My siblings are like my Mom and I realize no matter how much loving-kindness I display, they still chose to be self-centered. I have no idea WHY they are like this. Thank you for listening. Appreciate your videos.
@sagebay2803 - Cruelty isn’t the only factor. People who are treated cruelly by their parents often develop some kind of psychopathology, but it isn’t always the same kind. The specifics matter. Superficial similarities don’t add up to identical experience. No two people have the same upbringing, and therefore no two people have the same choices to make.
Thank you for your response. I appreciate it very much.@@healnpd
Haven't watched the video.
But when I saw the picture of the Wicked Queen from snow white, I just had to comment, when I describe my older sister, that's the exact character I use, I was snow white she the wicked queen so envious jealous just had to destroy me, get rid of me ... behind my back of course !
How would you change this? How do I change this? I identify with everything you said. I don’t have any remorse. How do I change?
A person might lack remorse for a number of reasons. Some might be organic, other might be psychological. If you identify with this description of malignant narcissism, then you should see a mental health professional if you haven’t already done so. They could provide you with a proper diagnosis and help you determine what can be changed. But even if it were determined that you can’t develop a stronger feeling of empathy or remorse, it doesn’t mean that you can’t be a good person.
So I'm curious what your take is on this. I've always been kinda dubious about the use of the term malignant narcissist as a construct because of the lack of literature in relation to it. And the fact that there is no empirical evidence that I'm aware of that supports it. Of course people like that obviously exist to some degree, but do you think it's even a stable enough construct for it to be relevant to treatment? Kinda curious cause I have mixed feelings on it lol Thanks!
I think the concept has limited clinical utility outside of forensic applications. That being said, I also think it is beneficial for clinicians to understand the role that primitive aggression plays in (some) narcissistic and (most) antisocial presentations, and also the role of sadism in certain clinical situations. I didn't go into it in the video, but Kernberg also discusses the role of sadism in certain kinds of self-harm, where the patient isn't enacting self-directed aggression but rather sadistic cruelty toward the clinician in an attempt to make the clinician feel powerless, small, inept, worried, or afraid. Essentially, self-harm or suicidality can be a power-move for some psychologies, used in a perverse manner to prop-up grandiosity via humiliation of the therapist. Therapists who don't understand this variation would make the mistake of trying to support the patient in the usual ways, not realizing that such interventions are only further inflaming the patient and contributing to more acting out.
To the extent that pathological narcissism is about excluding unwanted aspects of the self from awareness, I think it is important that clinicians not collude by *also* excluding the "ugly" parts of a patient's psychology from awareness. Therapists want to like their patients, and this can create a conflict of interest in which the therapist unconsciously tries not to see less flattering aspects of the patient's personality. Not only does this do a disservice to the patient, but it also endangers the treatment. Therapists can unwittingly inflict further narcissistic injury on patients by refusing to see the whole picture.
Clinicians should strive to see the aggression, hatred, envy, and even sadism in a patient, while also working to develop a compassionate understanding of those facets - both in order to lessen the likelihood of such "malignancies" derailing the treatment, and also to help the patient begin to integrate those facets of their psychology into a more cohesive experience of selfhood.
ЗДРАВСТВУЙ! МНЕ КАЖЕТСЯ ТВОЙ ПОСЛЕДНИЙ РОЛИК О ИЕРАРХИИ - ЭТО ОДИН ИЗ ЛУЧШИХ ТВОИХ РОЛИКОВ! Я ПОНИМАЮ, О ЧЕМ ТЫ ГОВОРИШЬ. ПОЖАЛУЙСТА, СНИМИ ЕЩЕ РОЛИК НА ТЕМУ - КТО ТЫ ВНУТРИ? ПРО СВОЕ ЭГО. РАССКАЖИ, КАК ТЫ ЭТО ВИДИШЬ. ТЫ НЕ СУЩЕСТВУЕШЬ ВНУТРИ. РАССКАЖИ ОБ ЭТОМ ПОДРОБНЕЕ
I’m going to assume that the psychological attacks could also be directed at a life partner who is being patient, accepting and understanding?
It makes me very sad that these processes are more than likely what caused the behavior of my ex boyfriend which resulted in me leaving him.
I always knew he carried a lot of personal pain. So do I. I used to say “like knows like” to him on those occasions when I think he was trying to be open and vulnerable. Unfortunately, I wasn’t prepared nor do I have the capacity to help him. I can barely help myself and when his defenses were triggered so that he was tearing me down because he loved me, I couldn’t take it. I had to leave to protect myself and yet I still feel guilty about it. In the end I abandoned him just like everyone else.
You say that malignant narcissism is made up of grandiose npd and antisocial traits. That's misleading. Almost all NPDs are a mix of covert and overt to a degree. Especially in the case of extreme NPD people are a mix of both covert and overt. Malignant Narcissists can be covert, overt, or both. The picture of Walter White you show is a good example of a mainly covert malignant narcissist.
This is what I mean when I use the terms over and covert: Overt Or Covert NPD? (the answer will surprise you)
ua-cam.com/video/Hq8yW6rs5iw/v-deo.html
Saying Grandiose NPD implies that malignant narcissists can't be vulnerable or covert narcissists.
@knick9318 - I’m speaking to the particular defensive constellation thought to be a factor in malignant narcissism. All individuals with pathological narcissism have underlying vulnerabilities. In typical narcissistic pathologies, the vulnerabilities are compensated by grandiose defenses. However, the person remains subject to periodic collapse of grandiosity into the underlying vulnerability. In malignant narcissism, the grandiose false self is fused with aggression, making it easier to maintain the defenses via projection and cruel treatment of others. According to the model used in the video, this configuration makes it less unlikely for a malignant narcissist to collapse into the underlying vulnerability.
How do we feel about the biology of aspd as an evolutionary state to fend for ourselves. Where the social self would then actually be the successful integration thus more "normally common" since this allowed for more regular breeding and higher survival rates?
I feel like a different society would keep aspd in check.
But society will always consist of social pretentious expectations (morals, considderation, compassion ect) where aspd are more flexible due to brain chemistry. I think there is a goldilocks zone though.
@@riaandewinnaar5040
But the society I envisioned wouldn't reward antisocial behavior.
So surprised by your words at the end that are directed to malignant narcissists themeselves. Is it even possible that such person could realise that they have a condition? Even if they realise it, aren't they usually using their awareness to become even more destructive towards other people by learning more about their "features"? Are there even any cases of such people coming to therapy trying to change and what makes them do it?
@nikitasakharov5578 - It’s rare but possible. I have been contacted by a few people who self-identify as having malignant narcissistic issues and who are seeking help. Remember that these issues exists on a continuum of severity as well.
Can malignant narcissism as a phase of healing be concerning?
Do you have anything on pwNPD who had a normal childhood?
The idea of a ‘normal childhood’ is a bit misleading. It is virtually impossible to define ‘normal.’ There’s no way to account for individual differences when it comes to the impact of seemingly similar events. The interactions between family dynamics, temperament, and individual psychology are far too complex. The same event could be traumatic and highly disruptive to the development of one child and have relatively little impact on another. We can either explore one person’s psychology in depth and learn about which events were impactful to that person, or we can aggregate data in order to speak of trends in the general population. We know that certain kinds of sudden or chronic disruptions in childhood are highly correlated with adverse future outcomes. Look up Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) to see those data. Similarly, attachment research looks at very early interaction patterns between infants and caregivers and provides robust longitudinal data tracking those patterns over time. There may not be overt “abuse,” but subtle trends in the pattern of responsiveness, etc. can impact the child’s attachment style over time. Those impacts become adult attachment patterns that are correlated with mental health. So even if someone’s childhood appears ‘normal,’ it doesn’t mean that there wasn’t relational trauma that impacted their psychology. Very early trauma, such as adverse events or problematic attachment patterns that occur during the first four years of life may not be remembered consciously by the adult individual, and the parents or surrounding family may not be reliable historians (because they don’t remember, aren’t insightful, are in denial, etc.) In addition, I have often found it to be the case that patients come to therapy unaware of serious dysfunctions in their family of origin. Even egregious problems can seem ‘normal’ when it’s all you’ve known. There can even be resistance to recognizing dysfunctional family dynamics on the parts of patients or family members. Family systems and individual psychologies are often resistant to anything that disrupts the status quo.
@@healnpd I see. What do you think can be done for a pwNPD who became that way without external trauma? Like they feel averse to being 'normal'?