I’ve been playing runescape for over a decade, and osrs since it was release. We, the player base need to do something about this. Boycott, don’t buy membership, don’t even log in. Whats more valuable to jagex, their loyal player base, or people who will *maybe* play the game longterm.
Hey Crumb, every time I check out the store so many items are sold out that there's nothing left I want to order. Is there something about the site I'm missing or are they just frequently out of stock?
yeah all they have to do is have them for new players... like 3 days or something that being said though if it had any impact then people would just make the bots be able to detect them
@@JeanMarieDuchesne afk cutting wood, suddenly a very angry drunken dwarf is wailing on you. Or, your ax head flies off and you don't notice, so someone swoops on your rune ax head and you're boned... Or the a dryad spawns and wrecks face.
Bro i remember skilling paid off very well. Now every single skilling method is so hard botted that u grind any aids skill for 200hrs and only make 10m
@@seeker296 LOL IF ANYTHING BOTTING MAKES IT EASIER. Look on the GE you can get Rune/Dragon weapons for like 10-50K back in the day it was like 500K for a dagger
Literally just improve account security. Enable email verification, enable phone verification. Link people's alt accounts to their main accounts so they don't need a phone number for each, but ban the whole group if any one account gets banned for botting. Yes it won't stop 100% of bots, but it would slow down, and reduce the profitability of bot farms with almost 0 inconvenicence to players, and increase overall account security. There's no reason not to enable verification, but instead they want to spend their time and resources on flaky resource intensive bot detection software that doesn't even work all the time.
Literally all they need to do is implement drop and trade restrictions on all accounts younger than 72 hours. Only a small fraction of bots will survive long enough to offload their botted goods. Even if they wait through the 72 hour hold before starting to bot, the window of time of time they would have to generate a profit would be reduced by 43%.
Well, they do have trade/drop restrictions that are lifted after 20 in-game hours, 10 quest points, and 100 total level. All 3 requirements have to be met. Changes were added in April 2020.
@@truemultipking3591 actually i tested this its 20 hours OR 10 quest points OR level 100. And this restriction only applies to GE. I can trade and drop with a brand new level 3 not 60 seconds after arriving in lumbridge
If you ran jagex and you wanted the most profit possible, would you stop bots before they even start, or would you let it continue? Jagex makes more money off stakers and botters than regular players. Runescape is a multi billion dollar business, they didn't get there by listening to you.
Jagex is owned by a megacorporation, a sale funded by Shanghai Hongtou Network Technology within Macarthur Fortune Holding LLC. They want their return on investment.
The one solution to TRULY stop this was what they tried back when they took away free trade and wilderness. That killed botting but also killed the game. Keep banning bots seems to be the best solution l suppose
It’s not worth ruining the game to get rid of bots. They just need to be smarter at their detection. A lot of these bots do repetitive moments and clicks that are obviously bots. It’s almost like Jagex doesn’t even try to get rid of them
Ai bot detection is what's needed, but that's a several million dollar investment, and jagex barely puts 50% of their earnings back into the game. They CAN do it, but truthfully, they make money off the bots. Every bot that does buy membership and get banned is something like $5 for jagex. If they can keep bots just earning enough to stay but not enough to break the game, that's what they truly want. And stuff like this TP membership for a week is a calculated risk. They gamble that the new players who might pay real money for membership later, is worth the short term damage to the game. See it doesn't matter if items get devalued, they can make new items. It doesn't matter if gold get's devalued, they can make a new money making method. The damage that the bots do id mitigatable over time, via updates, and via changes. So long as they keep the damage to a minimum at any time, the bots are actually profitable. For jagex
@@Goodvibez_live They do get rid of them, though. Like 90%+ are banned within a couple days. It's not that they're not seeing them, as the video explained, it's that you can't just insta-ban a suicide bot. That just lets the people who make the bots know what parts of the bot you're detecting, which they can then fix and then you have to improve your detection. It's an endless battle.
@@terabera3390 They've got AI bot detection - that's the vast majority of the bans, any cases that need additional verification get referred to their bot team to decide. It's just that they can't insta-ban accounts because that just lets bot makers know what needs to change. If you ban on a random delay, or at specific times in ban waves, it doesn't give the people who make the bots and hints at what they need to specifically change to avoid being detected.
Damn. I've been working overtime for the past 4 months and I was well on my way to high 90s thieving hoping to get 100% master farmer success. I come back to this.
It def has lasting effects. It causes huge inflation in the economy. Most notably you can see its effects in the price of old school bonds. 6 months ago they were 4m, now they're 5.4m. When you break down the price change, since the asking price from jagex or what you get from a bond hasn't changed: the only change is the value of gp going down. It is losing buying power just because of how easily it gets injected into the game from bots. On a day by day basis the change is barely noticable; but over a VERY long time; this is going to be a massive issue. Just look at how bad the inflation got in rs3; the only difference between the two at this point is the amount of time that the virtual economies have existed
I would actually argue that bond prices should be higher than they currently are. Bonds are $5 but only cost 5m gold which is only around $2.50. I would actually be willing to say this economy is much more stable than rs3 because the price of gold has stayed around $.50/mil for a couple of years now while rs3 gold was around $5/mil 10 years ago, if I remember correctly, and has dropped to being nearly worthless.
@@harrywolf4384 rs3 gold was more expensive because rs3 in 2007 days were very different. They didn't have all these money farming bosses etc and people had much less knowledge about the game so it was harder to attain gp.
@@Settings404 I wasn't really trying to compare them. I was just commenting that bonds going up in price was not really inflation and you could actually argue that bots cause deflation in the economy by lowering the price of necessary goods.
The bots actually cause deflation. Take an economic class. Bonds are up in value because it's Corona time and everyone wants to play the game with their time off. Literally that simple
michael george saupe corona messed with a lot of prices because people played like mad then everyone dumped all there items and sold the gold when they went back to work lol
@@Lariat_V I know, what Im saying is the twitch prime that you can claim for the 7 days last longer. It last for a month, then none for a month, then next month its back. Doesn't give much time for items to regain value
The first and easiest fix is to restrict new osrs account from being made using an email without having the need to go through the verification process. As long as Jagex enforces people to verify their accounts before logging in then suicide botting will be drastically lowered.
I'm not sure if that'd help all that much, as there are a million different temporary email services or you can just use the +1,+2,etc trick with gmail accounts to make a million accounts off the same email. And there are already services to auto-verify bot accounts available - that'd just make them mandatory instead of optional.
They need to make tracking trade numbers. A unique number tracker for every trade in game. Then if a bot is discovered, they can see who they have traded with and find the main account and ban them all.
They do have that kind of implementation. But if they would just ban the person that the bot traded the money to bots could just trade innocent people and get them banned for nothing
During twitch prime events or anything involving free membership, make it so that those people can not trade or use the GE until after the event is up.
Once I tried botting flax picking like 3 years ago, I was immediately disconnected and banned for 2 days 😂. Never did it again, but yeah I was impressed with how good the anti botting was
Lmaoo had the same thing happened to me.. i managed to get flax tho, i got banned while spinning bowstrings. (Got my account back and still playing that account now) 😂
Lmfaoo ran air runes from falador then when the update dropped ran at varrok legit. Got banned for botting at lv 80 didn't know what a bot was. After that I made a few accts to make money for my new acct I made that I played legit on and bots never got banned I ran 3 all day for like 2 weeks with a online for 6 hrs offline for 1 hr cycle. Long story short their anticheat was terrible and banned legit players and let bots go about doing what they do
theres bots in f2p doing the yes emote at castle wars bank n logging back out theyve been there for a few months xD ive no idea whats goin on but everytime i go to w1 theres always some logging in and out
man the sceptre being like 4-5m now.. I remember a month or so before that I did 91-99 thieving at Pyramid Plunder and managed to get four sceptres and they were around 6-7m..
The scepter going down reminds me of share dilution, where a company issues more shares outstanding, or in this case.. bots bringing more scepters in the game as you described. Also my brother ordered one of those Jad figurines. I held it for myself, the weight to it is nice. He even had a joint sitting in its mouth waiting lool.
given the GE is analogous to real markets that shouldn't be surprising. I wonder how many 12 year olds went on to become finance majors from merching GE.
I am someone who just resubbed to OSRS thanks to amazon prime promotion. The problem with adding additional restrictions to accounts with such memberships would be disadvantageous to actual real life people playing the game. Membership is supposed to be full access to the game. It almost doesn't feel like being a member if you can't trade or similar kind of shit.
These item surpluses may have a lasting effect on the market depending on how disposable the item is. For example, an herb seed is not very disposable. You could argue that, it can be farmed for herbs, but then that price of the herb will fall. It will cause a chain reaction to where the price of a potion made by the herb will decrease, until more players in the game want to train their herblore. These effects would likely last a month, or a couple of months. Another example of a non-disposable item would be the warrior's ring (I'm sure everyone remembers that huge scandal back in the day). However, some examples of disposable items would be blood runes, cannonballs, zulrah scales, etc. One could argue that, there would still be a large surplus of these items in the market, if they were to be botted. That is correct, but with the large demand of these items, those prices would only fall slightly. Blood runes get consumed with the scythe of vitur; cannonballs are consumed with the use of a dwarf cannon; zulrah scales are used up while using a blowpipe. The effects of a decreased price will only affect the quantity demanded, which means we should see an increased consumption of these items. These effects would likely only last a few days AFTER the bots have been completely terminated.
bruh i heared that shit way too often. Botting is popping since 2006, nothing has changed. Game is still doing great and trust me: bots are not only bad for the game, they have pros too.
What exactly is a pro of botting to the game integrity/economy? Yes botting has been around since early game. But bots are more sophisticated now, doing zulrah l, Brando’s, raids etc. It’s not just cutting logs anymore. You’re crazy if you think a game run by bots will survive
@@TylerPotato134 the player-base will be literally dead if u throw all the bots out. What happened when trading restrictions happened back in 2010 or so? It killed the player-base, because a fucking LOT of players that play rs are more interested in the rwt part of the game. Thats why rs is so fking interesting and addicting, because many people try to make a fucking buck out of it. Now tell me what will happen to the economy when: bots will be thrown out, rwt will be impossible and most likely 60-70% of the player base will vanish. It already happened before so just search up the history of it.
When it comes to the price of seeds decreasing, I would expect that to re-balance eventually once the suicide bots are gone, since seeds are consumable and the main reason players buy seeds on the grand exchange is to consume them.
I feel like adding a trade limit to prime accounts might be more difficult than it seems because think of all the legit players with established accounts who grab the free 7 days and just add it onto their membership days left. But they should make it so new prime accounts have restrictions, there’s no reason a new player would have even 1m on their account unless they bought bonds anyways.
I think stopping Prime memberis account from trading over 500k-1 mil worth of items should be enough? no new player is legitimately going to go over that limit to harm them and the bots would not make a whole lot of profit
After i quit about 13 years ago i didn't imagine botting could be any worse...I just started an account a week ago and its really insane. Aswel for the membership price which costs about 200% more.
That idea to limit Twitch Prime membership accounts from trading is actually amazing. I was trying to think of what they could do, because as pointed out the people are suicide botting and you can't just insta-ban suicide bots or they'll just evolve and it's an endless battle. Trade restrictions would be great, though. I've got several accounts that I do smithing or fletching and stuff on while I'm afking on my main account, the hardest part about running multiple accounts is the trade restriction until you've become a member - it means you need to pay for a membership, or use bonds initially. Locking trade for prime membership accounts if they haven't previously had membership from a non-prime source would probably fix it as it'd make trading over the money difficult.
I love these types of videos because they show the truth behind botting and how Jagex handles it. They will never be able to stop 100% of bots, but they could certainly eliminate a good portion of them by employing some knowledgeable ML experts and developing a much, much better system for detecting and banning them. That said, it'll never happen. Even if the OSRS team wanted to, I doubt the higher-ups would allow a direct loss in revenue to help the game itself out. Besides, they still aren't very good at detecting AHK ;) Looking forward to more videos like this!
Jagex isn't concerned about actually getting rid of bots. Bots use bonds, which increases the price on the G.E. That encourages people to buy more bonds for gp, or it encourages people to pay straight up for a monthly membership. They make their intentions pretty clear by not assigning a couple of people whose soul job is go through worlds and check hot spots, banning these bots.
I think that adding restrictions to accounts which only have membership through twitch is a good idea Like during the 7 days they can't trade or use the GE - that might be annoying to people who are legit and just want to check out runescape, but I don't think that the GE or trading is very important for those people during their first week of playtime. Being able to explore all the content is the more important thing.
You must be joking... 2006/2007 were prime botting years where bans were far and few between, you could write a basic script in about 30 minutes and suicide for weeks.
I'm surprised that Jagex doesn't track where the gp goes, banning all accounts across the chain, including the eventual buyer for the gp. Other games do that
"suicide bots get banned in a day or two" u are kinda wrong here, ppl with private scripts survive a lot longer, today is my 7th day on that batch of accounts
I only played runescape for a few weeks about 15years ago..but enjoy watching these videos...it's amazing the lengths these botters go to go make money. ..but if there's money to be made, people will do it...especially if you don't have to leave your bedroom and just sit back n let bots make you money
@@RileyReidMeABook i made new acc, played on it 4 days like 40 hours total, just afk training transfered from main like 25m too, switch from pc to mobile and soon get permanent ban from macroing, and never botted
@@ottomehtala6487 Damn, jagex really messes up with who they ban man, that really sucks. I've never been perm banned on an account and I've been botting passively since summer 2019. Until I started full on botting in march this year anyway.
@@RileyReidMeABook yea thats unreal.. pisses me off.. i just tried making that kind a 75 def pure acc 1 att 1 str etc so i just afk at monks clicking once like 15 min somehow gets me banned.. like why would i even bot that. Then did appeal for unban some mod emails me he checked it and is sure i used some kind of cheating botting client, nicee
0. Throw out RuneScript 1. Choose a NON JAVA game engine 2. Rewrite codebase 3. Implement Anti-Cheat software 4. Start a patch war against cheaters Result: MAYBE a few less botters. My point: There will always be people that try and cheat the game. Surely you could implement features like trade limits and remove the wilderness but we've all experienced that, but at a certain point, it's like you said: They've got to even out the gain vs. loss. It sucks when OSRS floods with bots and I hate how much OSRS is being exploited, but Jagex has proven it has done enough about the issue and I have no doubt that will only improve. LY JAGEX XX
You know what, if they release OSRS on steam like they did the newer one. They should make that version of RS exclusively steam where everyone starts from scratch like WoW Classic. And crack down on bots hard. In a perfect world.
I personally think jagex itself has some back door deals with some of these major companies for profits. I say that because look at the bot counts. You can't say you're actively banning accounts when nothings changed. It's more or less as if they are allowing it or turning a blind eye to it. Especially with rwt. Personally I myself know people who rwt all the time, and never get caught. And we are talking billions of gp.
I got hacked and banned even after investing money into my account 6 years ago, even talked to support on twitter and the ost creator begging to simply look at my vpn data to prove it but they didnt care, shows how much they care about their customers.
im pretty sure for items like seeds and things that get used up they will not affect the economy in the long run. pheros scepter its hard to say because they are an item that will slowly be removed from the game for poh spell book swaps but id guess more of them will be coming into the game then are being used up.
Yeah they don't get taken out as fast as they are being generated, however the botter than used to run pyramid plunder and supply most of the games sceptres no longer bots osrs
Yeah. It makes total sense as to why Jagex does this. Reverse Engineering these days with the vast amount of resources, it's not that hard. These botters can literally spin up AWS /Azure / Digital Ocean / GCP servers and do heavy computation work to easily do ML learning and then deploy a working bot that circumvents Jagex's Anti-Cheat system. Growing a player base is much more important in the long term. You can always see a massive drop in player activity around the fall time for most games. That is how it is statistically. So to offer prime membership bonuses around this time is actually not that much of a loss. Most of the player base that needed to take a temp quit won't really have to see this much.
Jagx should make mid to late game content consume low level items. It will hurt new players but maybe offer good with membership to help with the low level items being so cheap. It would allow mid/high levels to capitalize on the bots competing for resources and the chance of them getting to mid/high level is much lower.
It was great, I love the vorki my first pet, but if you open dusk and dawn for any price I’ll get them, it will be good luck on the hunt 4.5k kc and still not pet
The bots are allowed by jagex it would be so easy to stop all this but they choose on purpose to allow botting makes them way more money and inflates their player numbers
Maybe another way is to get the bots to think that they aren't getting banned and "iron man" them, they cannot trade, sell or drop the items they've obtained. If they do then they disappear from the account and no-one can pick them up. this way the bots will just gather a mass amount of the botted item but it'll never be able to leave that account.
Problem with trade limits is that they limit you. If you've ever been f2p and new to the game you'd understand. I think you need 20hrs in game, 150 total and 15 qp to remove trade limits or even trade on the Ge. As a new f2per, not being able to trade on an MMO is very off-putting and confusing
i got my account hacked and had the person use my account for 10 mins to advertise gold selling websites .. perma banned . reports a bot farm of 15players and nothing happens ..
Y'all gotta remember one main thing. Jagged is a for profit company who has shareholder they have to make money for. In the grand scheme of things everything comes down to one thing. Money. If it makes them money, they will keep doing it. Bitting is a past problem, it's a present problem it's a future problem. It will always be in RS. They will continue to do Twitch prime memberships until they do not make money off of it
Crumb think there's a Huge botfarm at motherload at least 8 accounts each world with full prospector all round 30-50cb but with 90+ mining and all wearing the same full prospector and a skills neckless should check it out
As a botter myself, if Jagex would not allow players which redeemed a Prime membership to use the market or trade / drop their GP, this would mostly kill the bots.
Wouldn't a simple solution to this issue be having to link your phone number to an account before being able to redeem the free membership? And then you could only use the phone number once to redeem membership during the promo. Haven't played in a while, so I don't know where Jagex is with linking phone numbers to accounts, but since two-factor authentication exists, this shouldn't be a problem.
✅ Check out our OSRS Figurines & Gifts: crumb.store/
I’ve been playing runescape for over a decade, and osrs since it was release.
We, the player base need to do something about this.
Boycott, don’t buy membership, don’t even log in.
Whats more valuable to jagex, their loyal player base, or people who will *maybe* play the game longterm.
I wouldn't be surprised if jagex is selling gold.
This is why I hope Trump nukes Venezuela and China in a fever.
Hey Crumb, every time I check out the store so many items are sold out that there's nothing left I want to order. Is there something about the site I'm missing or are they just frequently out of stock?
Should join runescape pin grand exchange ;) we make pins and crafts just like you!
Jagex need to employ someone who watches youtube videos for their improvements department.
I volunteer as tribute
tired of the ones that camp reddit
Real shit
Jagex don't have that much staff, you wanna volunteer?
@@leon6777 they are doubling their staff by next year
We need random events that attack again.
Or that just kidnap you lol
yeah all they have to do is have them for new players... like 3 days or something that being said though if it had any impact then people would just make the bots be able to detect them
you just fixed bots!
@J K which is why i said for 3 days only they might of done something... and i said straight after the bots would only get changed anyway
@@JeanMarieDuchesne afk cutting wood, suddenly a very angry drunken dwarf is wailing on you.
Or, your ax head flies off and you don't notice, so someone swoops on your rune ax head and you're boned...
Or the a dryad spawns and wrecks face.
"that was all the way back in 2017 and nothing has changed to this day but there have been some changes"
lol had to look for this comment when I heard it.
Glad I’m not the only one who noticed that
200iq
😂😂
Let´s sum it up quickly: Runescape is a thick ass business now.
Runescape is a bunch of assholes and degenerate botters trying to one-up each other.
I feel that having so many bots hurts the true new players trying members
Bro i remember skilling paid off very well. Now every single skilling method is so hard botted that u grind any aids skill for 200hrs and only make 10m
@Devils Advocate bruh even souljaj boy started play osrs wtf are you telling me
@@MK95 without bots, your stuff wouldn’t sell because the price would be too extravagant
Yes bots make it impossible for new players to play RS without spending irl money. Aka RS is strictly p2p now because of bots
@@seeker296 LOL IF ANYTHING BOTTING MAKES IT EASIER. Look on the GE you can get Rune/Dragon weapons for like 10-50K back in the day it was like 500K for a dagger
it wouldnt surprise me if it was runescapes team behind the gold trading all along
Oh yeah!
I love that during the advert. that there is a yellow progress bar.
More youtubers should make the effort of including that.
Remember when this was a game that we played for fun?
No
6:08 "And nothing has changed even til this day, but they have made some changes" ????????????????? Crumb pls logic ty
Crumb rhymes with dumb
Lol
@@Crumb #themoreyouknow
Literally just improve account security. Enable email verification, enable phone verification. Link people's alt accounts to their main accounts so they don't need a phone number for each, but ban the whole group if any one account gets banned for botting. Yes it won't stop 100% of bots, but it would slow down, and reduce the profitability of bot farms with almost 0 inconvenicence to players, and increase overall account security. There's no reason not to enable verification, but instead they want to spend their time and resources on flaky resource intensive bot detection software that doesn't even work all the time.
Its cuz jagex actually runs the runescape black market, too
@@mettataurr I dunno about that, but they definitely benefit. Jagex began making serious money when bots started making their way into Runescape.
What they should do is increase password entropy (high entropy means they're harder to hack). The passwords aren't even case sensitive.
@@mettataurr proof?
Also runescape passwords aren't case-sensitive 😂😂😂😂😂🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
Literally all they need to do is implement drop and trade restrictions on all accounts younger than 72 hours. Only a small fraction of bots will survive long enough to offload their botted goods. Even if they wait through the 72 hour hold before starting to bot, the window of time of time they would have to generate a profit would be reduced by 43%.
Well, they do have trade/drop restrictions that are lifted after 20 in-game hours, 10 quest points, and 100 total level. All 3 requirements have to be met. Changes were added in April 2020.
@@truemultipking3591 actually i tested this its 20 hours OR 10 quest points OR level 100. And this restriction only applies to GE. I can trade and drop with a brand new level 3 not 60 seconds after arriving in lumbridge
The fact that you call Jagex out about them allowing this on some level and I’ve never seen a single employee dispute that says something.
If you ran jagex and you wanted the most profit possible, would you stop bots before they even start, or would you let it continue? Jagex makes more money off stakers and botters than regular players.
Runescape is a multi billion dollar business, they didn't get there by listening to you.
Probably even jagex employees bot themselves..
@@chrissan2378 OS Buddy is owned by jagex affiliates.
Jagex is owned by a megacorporation, a sale funded by Shanghai Hongtou Network Technology within Macarthur Fortune Holding LLC. They want their return on investment.
Because you dont reply to bullshit accusations
The one solution to TRULY stop this was what they tried back when they took away free trade and wilderness. That killed botting but also killed the game. Keep banning bots seems to be the best solution l suppose
It’s not worth ruining the game to get rid of bots. They just need to be smarter at their detection. A lot of these bots do repetitive moments and clicks that are obviously bots. It’s almost like Jagex doesn’t even try to get rid of them
Yeah that does seem to be the beat option.. But if u get rid of pking the game isnt even worth playing anymore, to alot of us
Ai bot detection is what's needed, but that's a several million dollar investment, and jagex barely puts 50% of their earnings back into the game. They CAN do it, but truthfully, they make money off the bots.
Every bot that does buy membership and get banned is something like $5 for jagex. If they can keep bots just earning enough to stay but not enough to break the game, that's what they truly want.
And stuff like this TP membership for a week is a calculated risk. They gamble that the new players who might pay real money for membership later, is worth the short term damage to the game.
See it doesn't matter if items get devalued, they can make new items. It doesn't matter if gold get's devalued, they can make a new money making method.
The damage that the bots do id mitigatable over time, via updates, and via changes. So long as they keep the damage to a minimum at any time, the bots are actually profitable. For jagex
@@Goodvibez_live They do get rid of them, though. Like 90%+ are banned within a couple days. It's not that they're not seeing them, as the video explained, it's that you can't just insta-ban a suicide bot. That just lets the people who make the bots know what parts of the bot you're detecting, which they can then fix and then you have to improve your detection. It's an endless battle.
@@terabera3390 They've got AI bot detection - that's the vast majority of the bans, any cases that need additional verification get referred to their bot team to decide. It's just that they can't insta-ban accounts because that just lets bot makers know what needs to change. If you ban on a random delay, or at specific times in ban waves, it doesn't give the people who make the bots and hints at what they need to specifically change to avoid being detected.
Damn. I've been working overtime for the past 4 months and I was well on my way to high 90s thieving hoping to get 100% master farmer success. I come back to this.
It def has lasting effects. It causes huge inflation in the economy. Most notably you can see its effects in the price of old school bonds. 6 months ago they were 4m, now they're 5.4m. When you break down the price change, since the asking price from jagex or what you get from a bond hasn't changed: the only change is the value of gp going down. It is losing buying power just because of how easily it gets injected into the game from bots. On a day by day basis the change is barely noticable; but over a VERY long time; this is going to be a massive issue. Just look at how bad the inflation got in rs3; the only difference between the two at this point is the amount of time that the virtual economies have existed
I would actually argue that bond prices should be higher than they currently are. Bonds are $5 but only cost 5m gold which is only around $2.50. I would actually be willing to say this economy is much more stable than rs3 because the price of gold has stayed around $.50/mil for a couple of years now while rs3 gold was around $5/mil 10 years ago, if I remember correctly, and has dropped to being nearly worthless.
@@harrywolf4384 rs3 gold was more expensive because rs3 in 2007 days were very different. They didn't have all these money farming bosses etc and people had much less knowledge about the game so it was harder to attain gp.
@@Settings404 I wasn't really trying to compare them. I was just commenting that bonds going up in price was not really inflation and you could actually argue that bots cause deflation in the economy by lowering the price of necessary goods.
The bots actually cause deflation. Take an economic class. Bonds are up in value because it's Corona time and everyone wants to play the game with their time off. Literally that simple
michael george saupe corona messed with a lot of prices because people played like mad then everyone dumped all there items and sold the gold when they went back to work lol
Literally was just in the mage training arena and it suddenly flooded with bots
GE flippers buying the sceptres on bulk while they are low and sell once the Twitch events over
(the last eventit went back up to close to 8m)
@@HjbProductions except it's not. Previous events were 14 days, this is only 7
@@Lariat_V I know, what Im saying is the twitch prime that you can claim for the 7 days last longer. It last for a month, then none for a month, then next month its back. Doesn't give much time for items to regain value
@@Lariat_V That doesn't really matter too much considering account sellers have thousands of hacked amazon accounts to use to create new prime bots.
The first and easiest fix is to restrict new osrs account from being made using an email without having the need to go through the verification process. As long as Jagex enforces people to verify their accounts before logging in then suicide botting will be drastically lowered.
I'm not sure if that'd help all that much, as there are a million different temporary email services or you can just use the +1,+2,etc trick with gmail accounts to make a million accounts off the same email. And there are already services to auto-verify bot accounts available - that'd just make them mandatory instead of optional.
You can create burner emails easily.
They need to make tracking trade numbers. A unique number tracker for every trade in game. Then if a bot is discovered, they can see who they have traded with and find the main account and ban them all.
They do have that kind of implementation. But if they would just ban the person that the bot traded the money to bots could just trade innocent people and get them banned for nothing
During twitch prime events or anything involving free membership, make it so that those people can not trade or use the GE until after the event is up.
Just bought the vorkath and jad figurines for Christmas gifts. I can’t wait for them to come in
Thank you man! :) I really appreciate it
Once I tried botting flax picking like 3 years ago, I was immediately disconnected and banned for 2 days 😂. Never did it again, but yeah I was impressed with how good the anti botting was
Lmaoo had the same thing happened to me.. i managed to get flax tho, i got banned while spinning bowstrings. (Got my account back and still playing that account now) 😂
Lmfaoo ran air runes from falador then when the update dropped ran at varrok legit. Got banned for botting at lv 80 didn't know what a bot was. After that I made a few accts to make money for my new acct I made that I played legit on and bots never got banned I ran 3 all day for like 2 weeks with a online for 6 hrs offline for 1 hr cycle. Long story short their anticheat was terrible and banned legit players and let bots go about doing what they do
I was too lazy to get mining so I got a free power mining script, left it on when I went to school i came home and I was banned lol
Meanwhile 10 million stevens are running around
Just unlucky i guess, or got a free bot. I bought a few bots scrips for 50$ each. Got 4 accounts 4 99s each without bann. This was 4 years ago
theres bots in f2p doing the yes emote at castle wars bank n logging back out theyve been there for a few months xD ive no idea whats goin on but everytime i go to w1 theres always some logging in and out
Hey sweet I was just binging your vids and a new one pops up
:) enjoy man!
love when that happens
Wow never thought I would hear that someone was using Bing. Are you a bot? 🤔
"that was WAY back in" 3 years ago
lol
2017
yes, i remember, ages ago, ahhh yes, the good old days of ancient times
man the sceptre being like 4-5m now.. I remember a month or so before that I did 91-99 thieving at Pyramid Plunder and managed to get four sceptres and they were around 6-7m..
Thank you for these videos! I don't even play anymore, but love to stay up to date on the latest deets.
why does this sound exactly what happened in the main game? removal of wild, those other free trade limitations... all to combat bots
Stopping bots is cool and all but have you ever done dishes and gained xp?
Osrs is afk enough to get xp and wash dishes without bots
That's why I love fishing and wood cutting so much
If you play a game with bots you are not enjoying this game. Youre addicted as fck. Thats it
The scepter going down reminds me of share dilution, where a company issues more shares outstanding, or in this case.. bots bringing more scepters in the game as you described.
Also my brother ordered one of those Jad figurines. I held it for myself, the weight to it is nice. He even had a joint sitting in its mouth waiting lool.
given the GE is analogous to real markets that shouldn't be surprising. I wonder how many 12 year olds went on to become finance majors from merching GE.
Yo Crumb another super interesting video!
Thanks for the shoutout my man ❤️
I am someone who just resubbed to OSRS thanks to amazon prime promotion. The problem with adding additional restrictions to accounts with such memberships would be disadvantageous to actual real life people playing the game. Membership is supposed to be full access to the game. It almost doesn't feel like being a member if you can't trade or similar kind of shit.
These item surpluses may have a lasting effect on the market depending on how disposable the item is.
For example, an herb seed is not very disposable. You could argue that, it can be farmed for herbs, but then that price of the herb will fall. It will cause a chain reaction to where the price of a potion made by the herb will decrease, until more players in the game want to train their herblore. These effects would likely last a month, or a couple of months.
Another example of a non-disposable item would be the warrior's ring (I'm sure everyone remembers that huge scandal back in the day).
However, some examples of disposable items would be blood runes, cannonballs, zulrah scales, etc. One could argue that, there would still be a large surplus of these items in the market, if they were to be botted. That is correct, but with the large demand of these items, those prices would only fall slightly.
Blood runes get consumed with the scythe of vitur; cannonballs are consumed with the use of a dwarf cannon; zulrah scales are used up while using a blowpipe. The effects of a decreased price will only affect the quantity demanded, which means we should see an increased consumption of these items.
These effects would likely only last a few days AFTER the bots have been completely terminated.
Just bought one of your figures from your website I know for a fact my older brother will love it! Thanks again!
Thanks man!
Love the vids. If you can make an Olm that peeks over the back of my monitor, I'd 100% buy it
that's a sick idea honestly, might make one for myself haha
Crumb selfish. Make them for the publiccccccccccccccccccccccc
Bots are the worst part of the game, and eventually will be the downfall
Infuriates me that its gotten so bad and not much seems to change
Dont worry they will eventually go away mostly, and this is just prime, there are not nearly as much bots in normal botting than in prime time.
bruh i heared that shit way too often. Botting is popping since 2006, nothing has changed. Game is still doing great and trust me: bots are not only bad for the game, they have pros too.
What exactly is a pro of botting to the game integrity/economy? Yes botting has been around since early game. But bots are more sophisticated now, doing zulrah l, Brando’s, raids etc. It’s not just cutting logs anymore. You’re crazy if you think a game run by bots will survive
@@TylerPotato134 the player-base will be literally dead if u throw all the bots out. What happened when trading restrictions happened back in 2010 or so? It killed the player-base, because a fucking LOT of players that play rs are more interested in the rwt part of the game. Thats why rs is so fking interesting and addicting, because many people try to make a fucking buck out of it.
Now tell me what will happen to the economy when: bots will be thrown out, rwt will be impossible and most likely 60-70% of the player base will vanish. It already happened before so just search up the history of it.
@@TylerPotato134 bots fkn pk
'and that was back in 2017 and nothing has changed even till this day. but they have made some changes'
Quitting Runescape and starting a RSPS
If it gets big enough you can bet you'll have the same botting problem that jagex does XD
@@ericsarason9099 I'd turn it into singleplayer with added player bots for different places
@@antonybirkov2081 That actually sounds like a pretty interesting concept.
@Antony Birkov how’s the ps going?
Your suggestion of setting limits to prime membership tickle my hair in a good way.
Gz on the 50k man! This video will push you over :)
When it comes to the price of seeds decreasing, I would expect that to re-balance eventually once the suicide bots are gone, since seeds are consumable and the main reason players buy seeds on the grand exchange is to consume them.
I feel like adding a trade limit to prime accounts might be more difficult than it seems because think of all the legit players with established accounts who grab the free 7 days and just add it onto their membership days left. But they should make it so new prime accounts have restrictions, there’s no reason a new player would have even 1m on their account unless they bought bonds anyways.
do NOT alter the game to make botting less convinient. just ban em.
You ban one, 10 more join.
Agreed don't change the game integrity
It’s either kill the game or just fight the bots, there isn’t much choice
Just ban them?! Whaaat?! Surely nobody has ever thought of that before!
@@runelt99 if you watched the video you'd know that you can't ban them right away
I think stopping Prime memberis account from trading over 500k-1 mil worth of items should be enough? no new player is legitimately going to go over that limit to harm them and the bots would not make a whole lot of profit
This is true
That's pretty clever, actually.
someone call Jagex
Gimme that vorkath figure!!! I need it!
After i quit about 13 years ago i didn't imagine botting could be any worse...I just started an account a week ago and its really insane. Aswel for the membership price which costs about 200% more.
6:10 "And nothing has changed even to this day, ...but they have made some changes." hahaha
Bots. Might be attacking The gauntlet
That idea to limit Twitch Prime membership accounts from trading is actually amazing. I was trying to think of what they could do, because as pointed out the people are suicide botting and you can't just insta-ban suicide bots or they'll just evolve and it's an endless battle. Trade restrictions would be great, though.
I've got several accounts that I do smithing or fletching and stuff on while I'm afking on my main account, the hardest part about running multiple accounts is the trade restriction until you've become a member - it means you need to pay for a membership, or use bonds initially. Locking trade for prime membership accounts if they haven't previously had membership from a non-prime source would probably fix it as it'd make trading over the money difficult.
I love these types of videos because they show the truth behind botting and how Jagex handles it. They will never be able to stop 100% of bots, but they could certainly eliminate a good portion of them by employing some knowledgeable ML experts and developing a much, much better system for detecting and banning them. That said, it'll never happen. Even if the OSRS team wanted to, I doubt the higher-ups would allow a direct loss in revenue to help the game itself out.
Besides, they still aren't very good at detecting AHK ;) Looking forward to more videos like this!
Jagex isn't concerned about actually getting rid of bots. Bots use bonds, which increases the price on the G.E. That encourages people to buy more bonds for gp, or it encourages people to pay straight up for a monthly membership. They make their intentions pretty clear by not assigning a couple of people whose soul job is go through worlds and check hot spots, banning these bots.
I think that adding restrictions to accounts which only have membership through twitch is a good idea
Like during the 7 days they can't trade or use the GE - that might be annoying to people who are legit and just want to check out runescape, but I don't think that the GE or trading is very important for those people during their first week of playtime. Being able to explore all the content is the more important thing.
The fact the black market even thought it was bad and banned it shows something
Anyone remember when this game was actually fun to play around 2006? when there wasn't so many money hungry greed bots.
Back in 2006 I was f2p since wr were poor but I still remember soooo many bots hogging yews, willows at draynor and fishing bots at Karamja.
You must be joking... 2006/2007 were prime botting years where bans were far and few between, you could write a basic script in about 30 minutes and suicide for weeks.
a good quick fix for the sceptres could be to make them obtainable only from e.g room 6 and above untill the botting has quited down
As someone who has never been there I thought it already was like that.
bruh jagex makes money on everyone, the bots, the gold sellers; new players.
I'm surprised that Jagex doesn't track where the gp goes, banning all accounts across the chain, including the eventual buyer for the gp. Other games do that
Lol Jagex are in on it too.
This reminds me of pre-botnuke RS3...
And I think RS3 is still recovering from the economic devistation the bots caused back in 2010-2011.
Store is awesome! Got my Jad a couple weeks ago.
I don't even play runescape but this is like watching expert breaking down the effect of corona virus in the long term.
Far more complex my friend
"suicide bots get banned in a day or two" u are kinda wrong here, ppl with private scripts survive a lot longer, today is my 7th day on that batch of accounts
How is OSRS right now? I logged in like a year ago to chop some woods and chat with people but all of them were bots lol.
I only played runescape for a few weeks about 15years ago..but enjoy watching these videos...it's amazing the lengths these botters go to go make money. ..but if there's money to be made, people will do it...especially if you don't have to leave your bedroom and just sit back n let bots make you money
"No" - Jagex
"But I didnt even ask anything yet" - Me
"No" - Jagex
Jagex dont ban bots but then bans regular players who have never botted for macroing :D hilarious
I've been botting on 3 accounts for 8-10 hours each a day since march, only caught a 2 day macro ban once, about a month ago. :)
@@RileyReidMeABook i made new acc, played on it 4 days like 40 hours total, just afk training transfered from main like 25m too, switch from pc to mobile and soon get permanent ban from macroing, and never botted
@@ottomehtala6487 Damn, jagex really messes up with who they ban man, that really sucks. I've never been perm banned on an account and I've been botting passively since summer 2019. Until I started full on botting in march this year anyway.
@@RileyReidMeABook yea thats unreal.. pisses me off.. i just tried making that kind a 75 def pure acc 1 att 1 str etc so i just afk at monks clicking once like 15 min somehow gets me banned.. like why would i even bot that. Then did appeal for unban some mod emails me he checked it and is sure i used some kind of cheating botting client, nicee
Sure Buddy
0. Throw out RuneScript
1. Choose a NON JAVA game engine
2. Rewrite codebase
3. Implement Anti-Cheat software
4. Start a patch war against cheaters
Result: MAYBE a few less botters.
My point: There will always be people that try and cheat the game. Surely you could implement features like trade limits and remove the wilderness but we've all experienced that, but at a certain point, it's like you said: They've got to even out the gain vs. loss.
It sucks when OSRS floods with bots and I hate how much OSRS is being exploited, but Jagex has proven it has done enough about the issue and I have no doubt that will only improve. LY JAGEX XX
You know what, if they release OSRS on steam like they did the newer one. They should make that version of RS exclusively steam where everyone starts from scratch like WoW Classic. And crack down on bots hard. In a perfect world.
Another great video! I didn't think about Jagex stopping these events because of how much money they make. Brought up some good points.
Thanks man :)
How big of an issue were bits when afk was not allowed. I dont remember many being an issue
You keep OSRS alive. Know that. Thank you
I personally think jagex itself has some back door deals with some of these major companies for profits. I say that because look at the bot counts. You can't say you're actively banning accounts when nothings changed. It's more or less as if they are allowing it or turning a blind eye to it. Especially with rwt. Personally I myself know people who rwt all the time, and never get caught. And we are talking billions of gp.
I got hacked and banned even after investing money into my account 6 years ago, even talked to support on twitter and the ost creator begging to simply look at my vpn data to prove it but they didnt care, shows how much they care about their customers.
im pretty sure for items like seeds and things that get used up they will not affect the economy in the long run. pheros scepter its hard to say because they are an item that will slowly be removed from the game for poh spell book swaps but id guess more of them will be coming into the game then are being used up.
Yeah they don't get taken out as fast as they are being generated, however the botter than used to run pyramid plunder and supply most of the games sceptres no longer bots osrs
Could u guys make some dragon scims or dragon long swords? Maybe a collection of all the dragon weapons. Maybe a slayer helmet? Id buy those figurines
Yeah. It makes total sense as to why Jagex does this. Reverse Engineering these days with the vast amount of resources, it's not that hard. These botters can literally spin up AWS /Azure / Digital Ocean / GCP servers and do heavy computation work to easily do ML learning and then deploy a working bot that circumvents Jagex's Anti-Cheat system. Growing a player base is much more important in the long term. You can always see a massive drop in player activity around the fall time for most games. That is how it is statistically. So to offer prime membership bonuses around this time is actually not that much of a loss. Most of the player base that needed to take a temp quit won't really have to see this much.
I literally did a spit-take with my water when I saw the prices of the figurines 🤑
The resin for a resin printer is really expensive, plus a figurine that size would take a significant time to print and airbrush.
You should see the price of anime figurines lol
75 not tooo bad I was expecting to see a stupid insane amount like $120
Botting is worse now than it was in runescape classic at the all time high back then.. Crazy to think about.
Jagx should make mid to late game content consume low level items. It will hurt new players but maybe offer good with membership to help with the low level items being so cheap. It would allow mid/high levels to capitalize on the bots competing for resources and the chance of them getting to mid/high level is much lower.
Greetings from Brazil, Rio de Janeiro!
Very intelligent video, i love it!
Is it beautiful
well, I used a friend's twitch acc to redeem those 14 days of membership just to escape f2p, but I did't knew about all these bots.
Nice crumb video before lunch hell yeah!
Enjoy your lunch brother!
It was great, I love the vorki my first pet, but if you open dusk and dawn for any price I’ll get them, it will be good luck on the hunt 4.5k kc and still not pet
The bots are allowed by jagex it would be so easy to stop all this but they choose on purpose to allow botting makes them way more money and inflates their player numbers
Jesus don't talk about things u dont know about
@Crimson Eros what are YOU talking about? Your comment has nothing to do with mine, you mongolian
@J K and when i have claimed otherwise?
Hello crumb and thank you for the content and hard work you do!
Thanks Baros! I appreciate it
Crumb your welcome! Hoping soon I can order a KBD. That looks sick AF.
Maybe another way is to get the bots to think that they aren't getting banned and "iron man" them, they cannot trade, sell or drop the items they've obtained. If they do then they disappear from the account and no-one can pick them up. this way the bots will just gather a mass amount of the botted item but it'll never be able to leave that account.
Bring back random events that attack you or stop your actions!
Fr
Please dont.
With the rise of AHK bots they would actually make a difference. complex bots however wouldn't be affected.
I still don't understand why we can only have 4 digit pins and not the options for 6 or 8 digit ones
What's black hat?
Problem with trade limits is that they limit you. If you've ever been f2p and new to the game you'd understand. I think you need 20hrs in game, 150 total and 15 qp to remove trade limits or even trade on the Ge. As a new f2per, not being able to trade on an MMO is very off-putting and confusing
20 hours in one run, or in many segments?
@@oofmcoofy6769 overall. But if the average new player plays half an hour a day. thats 40 sessions. If they play an hour a day, thats 20 days.
i got my account hacked and had the person use my account for 10 mins to advertise gold selling websites .. perma banned . reports a bot farm of 15players and nothing happens ..
Y'all gotta remember one main thing. Jagged is a for profit company who has shareholder they have to make money for. In the grand scheme of things everything comes down to one thing. Money. If it makes them money, they will keep doing it. Bitting is a past problem, it's a present problem it's a future problem. It will always be in RS. They will continue to do Twitch prime memberships until they do not make money off of it
That’s a great solution, cool figures. Love Vorkie! Unfortunately too much $ for me, broke college kid.
Crumb think there's a Huge botfarm at motherload at least 8 accounts each world with full prospector all round 30-50cb but with 90+ mining and all wearing the same full prospector and a skills neckless should check it out
they need to bring green dragon bots back so we could see some awesome content of youtubers skull tricking them bots. =)
What if accounts can't trade if they are less than 3 days old? Since most bots are gone by 2 days.
So how does that work for low lvl new ppl. Everything on the low end crashed so why would new players stay when it's harder to start out??
As a botter myself, if Jagex would not allow players which redeemed a Prime membership to use the market or trade / drop their GP, this would mostly kill the bots.
Jagex doesn't ban all the bots because they want to desperately increase the player base.
Love the idea of restricting accounts that get prime memberships
Wouldn't a simple solution to this issue be having to link your phone number to an account before being able to redeem the free membership? And then you could only use the phone number once to redeem membership during the promo. Haven't played in a while, so I don't know where Jagex is with linking phone numbers to accounts, but since two-factor authentication exists, this shouldn't be a problem.