Our company has sold literally hundreds of those Mirkas and they actually are quite reliable. Only a handful have been sent to the factory to be fixed and more often than not the issue has been the power cord, people tend to lift the machine from it and that's a big no-no. Nowadays we check the machines locally before even sending them out. That pigtail issue is just due to it being more powerful than the Hyvst. I never use a grit coarser than 120 on wood with a ROS. Also the break when you let go of the lever is to not let your machine wander off if you set it on the table while still rotating. Cheaper versions don't have that. Happy holidays from Finland!
I purchased a used one as the piece is a bit pricey, but the machine ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxG6fbm3cHBd7CNTjk5D-dwYe9c9tCB9ZN has surpassed my expectations. We sand small parts by hand often, sized around 1"x1/2," and specifically look for a piece that's designed to be vertical. The motor has plenty of torque and great speed settings. The only inconvenience I had is that the disk measures 5" where we trim 6" stick-and-sand disks down easily by mounting it then cutting with a box cutter.
I will just give you a tip. Buy 3M sander. Hands down for low vibration, low noise, and reliable it ranks #1 with me. 3 yrs and no issues. Next is an Ingersoll rand sander which is an orbital air sander 6" . Same thing. Smooth low noise and reliable. And my 3rd choice and very happy with. Husky brand air orbital sander 6" . I am impressed how this has been working the last 3 yrs. Thank you. Nice to know people have other choices. Good video. Very thorough and good information. I love your honest opinion and experience with the product.
Thanks for taking the time to make the comparison Keith! Great video, and echoes my findings with the Hyvst 👍 Also, incredibly difficult to come up with visually interesting methods for eg dust collection performance, lol! As you say, it’s a total punt on wether the sander’s a worthwhile long-term prospect, but I’ll keep you posted! P
Cheers Peter, really appreciate you letting me try it out. Be interesting to see how well it lasts 🤞 I'd seriously consider buying one of the UK available ones once the mirka dies
@@briancunningham594 Yes, I've been using it as my main sander since Keith returned it, and have to say it's holding up just fine. Hasn't missed a beat so far. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop ok thanks Peter. Just been reading (on the FB Decorators forum) all the complaints about the Deros and it's poor reliability. Some have sent it back 3 or 4 times for repair. So it's either the Festool ETS EC 150/5 or take a a punt on the Sealey version of the Hyvst for me atm .
I have had to re watch this video because its recent to put a comment on an old video about the drawers having wooden runners and how you didn't like em. ... I've watched norm abram on discovery at half past five in the morning and wow.. he is ultimate builder of wood. No mechanics needed. Not to take away Keith. Keep up the channel and vids.
This is great thank you for putting it together. I feel like the internet is going crazy for the Mirka but I just can't fathom paying that amount of money for something that does get bad reviews for reliability. These alternatives are more along the lines of the budget for most woodworkers
Thanks for the mention Keith and has been really interesting watching both yours and Peter's videos about this sander. For folk watching, it really does bring the likes of that Sealy sander you referenced as a very tempting proposition, especially if it's from a UK distributor.
Really suprised re the finish difference. I've heard so many decorators bang on about the finish quality from Mirka, it was super interesting to see someone cut through the branding and test it! Nice one Keith.
The mirka did not have a new back up pad, and has a lot more wear. Same thing for stopping, if the chineese one has new bearings all around and the mirka has slightly worn bearings, of course it will stop later since it moves more freely. Mirka is really picky about back up pads. since they are weighted to be balanced with the tool. worn out pad can affect performance in the oscillating pattern.
I’m a painter and own both the mirka sanders. They get used every job I do and had them both now 3 years and still going strong. Having said that I have seen and heard about the problems with them. Fingers crossed
Been dreaming about getting Mirka. Just ordered the Pela instead... And now watching this. Very interesting comparison. Feels good now. Mirka cost 650 dollars here, and pela 250.
Metabo factory in Finland is producing Deros. They produce same machine for themself. It looks the same with green body, and have new improved Electronic elements. I have both, and can't imagine work without it. I use Abranet only for finishing, because it extract dust better. For all other works I use 3M Cubitron. It really last 3 time longer. Cheers from Dubrovnik in Croatia.
I watched Peter Millards review and you definitely added value to his review. The sound, dust collection and , most importantly, finish are all very counter intuitive. I found several rebrands in my local area (Poland) so I'm going to 'take a punt'. Thanks for the great in-depth review.
It always surprises me when people are surprised that all the tools that are made in China suddenly appear cheaper and identical all except the colour three minutes after the patents expire.....anyone know the brand “Katsu”? 🤷♂️😂
And don't forget you can buy this sander with a 2.5mm or 5mm stroke and it will accept a 125mm pad as well. If the carriage wasn't so ridiculous I'd have a punt. Good video Keith you built on Peter's original review nicely.
Id love to take it apart and examine the build quality of the electronics, be interesting to determine the likely failure modes. See if the lack of dynamic speed controller allows for the motor FET circuitry to actually be more robust than the Mirka.
Interesting video. I was recently looking into getting the Mirka, but was put off by the price of it. A note on the dust extraction comparison though. If the Mirka has already been used a lot, it might have a fine layer of dust inside of it, which could effect the air resistance and therefore the performance.
Fascinating. Always loved the concept and design of the Deros but reliability issues more or less started to appear a month after the tools release! That and, having held and played with it at a few shows, for me it's light weight was worrisome. The cult around it has always surprised me. Granted, being light working above head or around angles and curves is a bonus but in my experience, a bit of weight on a tool (in the right areas) has usually meant reliable. My choice would be the Festool ETS EC if I ever plump for a low-prof. Already got 7 sanders of varying types so I'm in no rush. Great comparison Keith.
The Mirka has a brake seal that will wear over time yours might need to be replaced. Mine still works fine and stops in about 2 seconds and the seal is virtually brand new. As far as the sander jerking, that is the motor disengaging it’s called a torque reaction. It’s similar to when you turn on a drill at full speed and then let go of the trigger suddenly.
Very interesting video you would automatically assume the Deros would out perform anything else on the market. The Hyvst dressed as other brands with warranties seem a decent option to me, totally looking into them this afternoon.
Definetly a rotex. DEROS is just a ROS, rotex is geared so it can also do very aggressive sanding and buffing as well. Plus you get 3years free repair and theft insurance. I think you get a receipt (possibly) with the mirka.
Rotex is heavy and bulletproof my oldest one is about 10 years old. It’s good if your doing flat work needing heavy sanding. Deros is great for overhead decorating work as it’s so light. Festool do so many sanders , cordless range is really good but you always need main extraction so great for those little jobs. Trouble is you need so many sanders for different applications, there is no one tool does it all. I do like the mirka abrasives use them on all sanders.
Reliability outweighs just about everything else. It only breaks when you need it. Also, for a sander especially I prefer switch selectable speeds as it’s a challenge (impossible) for me to maintain a steady pressure on the switch (any type) as I move the sander around. Thanks for the video.
@@koolkid1234ism простите, что по русски, переведете,но как раз китайские клоны надежнее, я хотел покупать мирку,отказался от нее именно из-за отзывов, очень много поломок у них. Купил екиджи, это тоже, что и на видео, работаю два года каждый день, все отлично, так я шлифую автомобили! А это для них хуже дерева
Here in Canada we get the maxxt with 150 mm pad and 125 mm pad combo for 225$ cad and performs exactly like the mirka , reliability wise not sure yet it's still new and hasn't been used alot , but if you looking for reliability then the festool ets 150 is ideal and reliable
if anyone is thinking of getting one,I bought the sealey one from Ffx for £162, and it really great, super powerful and pretty solid. The cable is ridiculously short though, but can be swapped out. would recommend.
I have a ceros since 2012. It has been back for repairs twice. The second time the price for the repair was about 2/3’s the price of a brand new one. I have a festool ets ec125 3 and a rotex ro150 and I prefer the ceros for most of my work. I believe the reason you are getting bigger scratch pattern is probably due to the fact that the pad is not as flat as it once was.
Bet this video took a long time to make Keith, especially with those re-tests. But excellent results. Given the surprising nature of some of the results, I'd like to see someone (not a Festool fanboy) do the same with some of those stupidly priced German tools versus cheaper options. Thanks for all that effort.
Go to Peter Millards excellent Channel 10minuteworkshop and he has loads of Festool v's Cheap Tool videos. Also before you get bent out of shape about the price of Festool Kit, go buy a few pieces and see for yourself why they are so highly regarded. Or maybe you should go and look at the prices of Mafell and other top end manufacturers. They charge what they do because they are worth every red cent and anybody who uses them will tell you the same.
@@1959ticktock Well if you don't think "Festool Fanboy" is a tad provocative I do. So come on then how many "stupidly priced German tools" do you actually own? Do you make your living from the tools you own?
@@Dickie2702 One, though I think that is actually Swiss? Of course Festool fanboy is provocative. It was meant to be. Peter Millard is still trading on the fact he used to be a business/fitter. If he were starting again, from where he is now, he'd be unlikely to be buying a set of Festool by which to judge everything else. Most hobby woodworkers would benefit from getting the 3 to 1 ratio of purchase power for power tools the Festool vs the rest implies. However, if you're going to use tools professionally, the investment might be justified. But how many UA-cam watchers are in that category? And if they are that alone implies a different status etc. This is the first time I've indulged in/entered into a Festool vs the rest dialogue. And I feel slightly silly doing so, given how cliche'd it is. But, at this moment in time, it beats the hell out of arguing whether it is right to wear face-masks or not. No offence Richard.
@@1959ticktock Not sure Festool make face masks but if they did................lol. Trust me I am as keen on saving money as the next person but as well as the undoubted quality of the tools they are, as someone who works wood for a living, an absolute pleasure to use, bit like driving a luxury car. Yes they are eye wateringly expensive but they can only command that price because they are, in the main, vastly superior and people like me see value in what they bring to the table. For example the Domino. Unique, unbelievably robust and reliable and just a total game changer for any woodworker at any level. It paid for itself within two weeks of me buying it and I would say to anybody if you are at all serious about woodworking this would be the one tool I would recommend they save up and buy. I guess I took offence as you seemed to be implying that these tools were simply overpriced. No they are priced right where they should be and they can only continue to stay at that level if they, and they do, put money in to R&D and continually innovate and produce tools that push the limits of accuracy and usability. So I guess you must own an Elu Router??? Glad we kissed and made up 😁😁😁
Another alternative is the Flex ORE 5-150 EC. Seems to be an original product of Flex, not a sibling of the Hyvst. Also brushless 150mm with 5mm stroke. Just got one at 280€. Initial impressions are good, but I can’t compare it to Deros or other 150mm 5mm stroke sanders as I have not used them.
Just a note that there is also a version of the mirka deros rebranded by Metabo, and as far as I can tell by using it, it's exactly the same. Even down to the fact you can use the mirka app via Bluetooth with it, even though in the manual for the Metabo, there is no mention of it being Bluetooth. www.metabo.com/uk/en/tools/cutting-sanding-milling/wood-processing/random-orbital-sander/sxe-150-5-0-bl-615050700-random-orbital-sander.html
Great comparison Keith.. I have nothad any issues with mine and got agreat deal when Mirka were doing a trade in deal... But these clones look a great option. I use the abranet (mainly because i got 4boxes free) but i have recently tried Mirka NOVASTAR Sanding Discs for my end grain cutting boards and they are really tough and last ages... Cheers Paul
6:35 The different result in sanding finish between both, in the advantage of the Hyvst, is propably due the lenght of the electric cable. The longer the cable, the more voltage drop. I bet, if you could do a RPM reading under load, that the RPM on the Hyvst is higher then on the Mirka. If my guess is right, and you have a energymeter (plugin device for measuring power consumption), that the Mirka consump more power due the lower RPM. The lower RPM draws more current through the entire device, and that could be the reason that the Mirka isn't reliable.
Lets assume they both use 0,5mm cable thickness (gnd and +) and draw 2A (which would be 460W) even then, voltage drop would just be 1.4V (0,6%). Thats completely negligible. :)
Looks pretty much like the Menzer ETS 150 5.0. Menzer is a German company and the ETS 150 5.0 comes with a systainer and many accesories as well with waranty and support for 220€.
Hi Keith. I just dropped a vid about the Mirka and was told you had too, seems we both had very similar to say although I didn't know about the reliability issues - long story short Ive been having issues with the Festool plug-it cable/sockets on my ETS and Rotex so borrowed my brothers Mirka, well I didn't like it at all. Anyway I'll get to my point I see you have a plug it cable hanging up in the background, have you had any issues with this where the tool stops and starts when in use? Im trying to get to the bottom of it, right down to sawing in half a plugin cable, I've ordered new cable and female socket for the ETS if that solves it, I'm worried the issue could of spread to other tools sockets... Also a subscriber said in a comment on one of my videos a while ago saying something like "he's a bit late to the came and comes from a recommendation from you" I didn't know anything about that till then, I asked where so I could come and thank you but I never received a reply from him, please dont think I was being rude I just didn't know, while I'm here thank you for that, that was very kind of you!
Hiya Ben. Yeah I watched your video about the sanders. Agreed with almost all your points apart from the cable one: the Festool cables feel flimsy to me, I always feel like I'm gonna break it, whereas the Mirka feels more like a quality cable to me. Hate the way it plugs in to the sander though, awkward to get to. I haven't had any issues with the Festool cable though and I got it secondhand with the domino so it's doing well really, I'm probably just paranoid about breaking it. I only have the one Festool tool so not much experience but I've heard that Peter Millard has broken a few over the years. I've not tried the ETS150 sander although would like to, especially hearing your thoughts. No worries about the recommendation it was on a podcast called Workshop Banter, episode 7 or 8 I think it was... Next time I do a vlog video here on my channel I plan on mentioning here too. First video I saw of yours was the table saw restoration that came up in my recommendations, I was absolutely blown away by the work you did to that. Amazing to watch. And been binge watching your channel ever since. Keep up the good work! And sorry for the essay 🤣
They Hyvst seems to have jumped in price since Peter's/Your video. The Sealey is now almost the same price and almost certainly worth paying the few £'s extra for the warranty and support.
Very interesting review, Keith. Like you, I assumed the Mirka would out-perform the Hyvst. I can't see beyond the 'F' I have at the moment, such that I would take some convincing not to get another one when it goes tits up. Although I try not to be a brand slave. All the best for you next year!
The Mirka is much faster sanding and best in class in terms of dust collection but only when using abranet disks. The machine is designed for those disks and it shows.
I've had my mirka for probably 7 years, and it's been absolutely hammered. In total we have 3. And 2 vacs. Had it serviced once. And trust me its Rock hard. And your using 120 grit on a 5mm orbit....that's not a design for any sort of finish...if the hivs doesn't leave marks. It's probably not good enough. For finishing you be better of with the 2.5mm orbit. And 180...Bluetooth? The arbranet disks are far superior to any sanding disk. Even on timber. If your trying to be convinced on sanding disks. Come spend some time with us..not trying to be negative but. In my opinion. A heavy mirka user. I'd put them over festool.....
Is there going to be an update video on your table saw now you have had it for a few months? Has the step up from the Dewalt DW745 been as remarkable as you hoped for? Do you get much better accuracy and refined adjustments on your new saw? And how about those niggles you mentioned in the table saw video - have you overcome them, learned to live with them, or are they so minor that you don't even think about them anymore?
What sanding discs were you using? Didn’t look like Abranet. Stick those on and you’ll see the Mirka extract nearly all the dust particles. The other one wouldn’t.
As explained in the video, the Hyvst is not my sander so not sure why you're asking me how it's performing. When you say can't find one anywhere, where are you looking? I type Hyvst sander in to Google and the first result is the Hyvst sander available to buy 🤷♂️
Just been on the Ali express website and it’s £113 with no accessories and £140 with the accessories plus £23 carriage. Would be much better to go for the sealy that has a guarantee and a dedicated online back up
This is the second video about the Mirka of yours that i have watched. Since you purchased the Mirka on Ebay, do you know the stroke pattern on the Mirka? If it's a more aggressive pattern, then you will get more sanding marks. However both sanders appear to have the same sanding time. For sandpaper try Cubitron by 3M. Available on Amazon in the US.
I actually won my Mirka on the Popular Woodworking Christmas drawing. It stopped working within the three year warranty and they fixed it without any problems. However it stopped working again after the warranty had expired. No, they would not fix it again at no charge. I debated a couple of weeks before I decided to throw a $230.00 repair into the $650.00 (free) sander. If it breaks again, I’m not sending it in for repair again. As mentioned in the video, a home wood shop use of this “professional “ tool is just a few hours. I doubt if I’ve used it even 50 hours total. I would be totally pissed if I was a drywall installer and my $650 sander went kaput twice in four years.
Those pigtails are from the crappy punched hole sandpaper, any Sander will make those. Interesting to hear of your customer relation issues with mirka considering the price of their products
I watched the video a while back and watched again as I was thinking about a Mirka. I then realised you compared the Hyst to Menzer. I think Hyst is just a copy. I live in Germany and Menzer is a German company. They specialise in sanders especially larger industrial sanders like Drywall and Floor sanders. Given the various Mirka reliability issues and the fact Menzer is German I will go for a Menzer.
I don't know if they're available in the UK but Metabo makes a licensed version of the Mirka, it's the exact same machine and actually cheaper. Haven''t used the Metabo yet but I use the Mirka daily and I gotta say it desevers the hype in my view.
Really interesting video keith. Like you i hate sanding. My sander cost £40 as im poor & the idea of spending lots of money on a sander doesnt appeal to me. Not right now anyway.
The brake ring on your Mirka is worn out. Just remove one or two washers from the sanding pad (the're on a mounting screw) and you'll see how quickly it stops. Regarding the sanding quality I have also some doubts cause mine doesn't leave those nasty swirl marks. There may be any problems with the bearing or anything. It's not too correct to compare the brand new tool with the one that has a hard life behind.
I noticed that it's been 8 months since you uploaded the video, how do you like the sander since then? Did any problems come up ? Btw that was a great video, thank you so much for taking the time to make all these tests. As well as for being so realistic and fair with what each product offers. It was greatly useful!
I’d love to see how the Airvantage 5” palm sander stacks up against the Mirka. From what I can tell they are direct competitors. Both known for their quality air sanders, and have since branched to include electric. The price difference is enough to raise the question, at almost 50% 😳.
Hi Keith. Thanks for the vid, was thinking perhaps the main issue with your mirka breaking down originally was with the company you brought it from, and the runaround they gave you, as i seem to remember you rang mirka direct about it and it was resolved straight away with that company more or less? So perhaps there lies the main headache, as you seemed to have highlighted that issue more than once?. I bought my Deros from Mirka direct, to avoid that headache if there was a problem with a 3rd party, such as you've experienced.My Deros hasn't let me down once, absolutely fantastic tool,but all tools , as we all know, no matter what price paid can and do break down, that in mind would i take a chance on a chinese one at half the price with no 3 year warranty? Nope.Been there too many times before. Would be good to hear from mirka what thier 'true' warranty rate is on the Deros, i.e. taking out factors like abuse or misuse, doubt they'd ever divulge that tho'.Would like to see the dust fall out test with the abranet discs on the mirka, would be very good to see that test comparrison. Anyways, all the best,keep up the good work 👍G..
Yes Mirka resolved the issue swiftly, it was the repair company that were trying to be awkward. The fact that I had an email confirming the warranty from Mirka after I registered it as far as I'm concerned means they need to stand by it and repair without question
my Mirka stopped working i checked the cable and it was broken put a new cable on it and it’s been ok since Don’t wrap the cable round the mirka like I did !!!
Great vid and yes, I think this us the same as the Sealy. Been using Abranet sanding discs for about 5 months now and yes, they do last longer because they don’t clog and because of this they also provide a better more uniform finish with less effort than conventional papers.
Great video as always, you were inventive on methods of testing. Great looking pieces of kit, very quiet compared to my £40 b&d!! Strewth what a price though. How do both compare to a Milwaukee equivalent? I've tried looking for those new mesh sanding discs, but not been able to find any..saw a good review by Katz-Moses & Stumpy Bubba on them, they sounded indestructible!
It is not a fair comparison. The Mirka is a used tool.The Hivst is almost new. My Mirka for example has been repaired too but has never been as good as new when it performed beautifully in terms of finish quality, noise and vibration. Now it is almost like a normal sander, unfortunately.
My hobby use deros broke after only a few hours of use. It would just never turn off. The warranty service was not great either. I had to send it back twice, and then they finally sent me a new one. It has been fine since. It seems as if they are just not acknowledging that they have a very large bad batch of units. Very poor choice in the companies part.
![Is a $135 brushless sander anything like the Mirka Deros? [video 428]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/46Ws3Bgp_bA/mqdefault.jpg)
Our company has sold literally hundreds of those Mirkas and they actually are quite reliable. Only a handful have been sent to the factory to be fixed and more often than not the issue has been the power cord, people tend to lift the machine from it and that's a big no-no. Nowadays we check the machines locally before even sending them out. That pigtail issue is just due to it being more powerful than the Hyvst. I never use a grit coarser than 120 on wood with a ROS. Also the break when you let go of the lever is to not let your machine wander off if you set it on the table while still rotating. Cheaper versions don't have that. Happy holidays from Finland!
I purchased a used one as the piece is a bit pricey, but the machine ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxG6fbm3cHBd7CNTjk5D-dwYe9c9tCB9ZN has surpassed my expectations. We sand small parts by hand often, sized around 1"x1/2," and specifically look for a piece that's designed to be vertical. The motor has plenty of torque and great speed settings. The only inconvenience I had is that the disk measures 5" where we trim 6" stick-and-sand disks down easily by mounting it then cutting with a box cutter.
3 years later.... is this sander still working?
I will just give you a tip. Buy 3M sander. Hands down for low vibration, low noise, and reliable it ranks #1 with me. 3 yrs and no issues. Next is an Ingersoll rand sander which is an orbital air sander 6" . Same thing. Smooth low noise and reliable. And my 3rd choice and very happy with. Husky brand air orbital sander 6" . I am impressed how this has been working the last 3 yrs.
Thank you. Nice to know people have other choices. Good video. Very thorough and good information. I love your honest opinion and experience with the product.
I have a video about that too! ua-cam.com/video/ojJctlaMzeg/v-deo.html
Thanks for taking the time to make the comparison Keith! Great video, and echoes my findings with the Hyvst 👍 Also, incredibly difficult to come up with visually interesting methods for eg dust collection performance, lol! As you say, it’s a total punt on wether the sander’s a worthwhile long-term prospect, but I’ll keep you posted! P
Cheers Peter, really appreciate you letting me try it out. Be interesting to see how well it lasts 🤞 I'd seriously consider buying one of the UK available ones once the mirka dies
Have you had a chance to use the Hyvst much Peter and if so how's it performed and holding up? Debating between a Festool and Mirka at the moment .
@@briancunningham594 Yes, I've been using it as my main sander since Keith returned it, and have to say it's holding up just fine. Hasn't missed a beat so far. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop ok thanks Peter. Just been reading (on the FB Decorators forum) all the complaints about the Deros and it's poor reliability. Some have sent it back 3 or 4 times for repair. So it's either the Festool ETS EC 150/5 or take a a punt on the Sealey version of the Hyvst for me atm .
I have had to re watch this video because its recent to put a comment on an old video about the drawers having wooden runners and how you didn't like em. ... I've watched norm abram on discovery at half past five in the morning and wow.. he is ultimate builder of wood. No mechanics needed. Not to take away Keith. Keep up the channel and vids.
This is great thank you for putting it together. I feel like the internet is going crazy for the Mirka but I just can't fathom paying that amount of money for something that does get bad reviews for reliability. These alternatives are more along the lines of the budget for most woodworkers
Didn’t even Keith’s first one get sent back because it was dodgy, or was that the Bosch?
Thanks for the mention Keith and has been really interesting watching both yours and Peter's videos about this sander. For folk watching, it really does bring the likes of that Sealy sander you referenced as a very tempting proposition, especially if it's from a UK distributor.
Really suprised re the finish difference. I've heard so many decorators bang on about the finish quality from Mirka, it was super interesting to see someone cut through the branding and test it! Nice one Keith.
The mirka did not have a new back up pad, and has a lot more wear.
Same thing for stopping, if the chineese one has new bearings all around and the mirka has slightly worn bearings, of course it will stop later since it moves more freely. Mirka is really picky about back up pads. since they are weighted to be balanced with the tool. worn out pad can affect performance in the oscillating pattern.
Love the shout-out to AvE. One of my favourite non-woodworking channels 😄
I’m a painter and own both the mirka sanders. They get used every job I do and had them both now 3 years and still going strong.
Having said that I have seen and heard about the problems with them. Fingers crossed
Been dreaming about getting Mirka. Just ordered the Pela instead... And now watching this. Very interesting comparison. Feels good now. Mirka cost 650 dollars here, and pela 250.
Metabo factory in Finland is producing Deros. They produce same machine for themself. It looks the same with green body, and have new improved Electronic elements. I have both, and can't imagine work without it. I use Abranet only for finishing, because it extract dust better. For all other works I use 3M Cubitron. It really last 3 time longer. Cheers from Dubrovnik in Croatia.
Can you tell me the metabo model?
I watched Peter Millards review and you definitely added value to his review. The sound, dust collection and , most importantly, finish are all very counter intuitive. I found several rebrands in my local area (Poland) so I'm going to 'take a punt'. Thanks for the great in-depth review.
We have two mirkas (2018)at work and both suffered speed control issues.. both were fixed under warranty.. no issues since.. great sander but fragile.
I’d be interested in some sort of follow up video to see how well these cheap sanders have done over time
It always surprises me when people are surprised that all the tools that are made in China suddenly appear cheaper and identical all except the colour three minutes after the patents expire.....anyone know the brand “Katsu”? 🤷♂️😂
Yeah katsu chicken with ramen
Happy to see someone doing db readings properly for once. Well done Keith 👍🏼
Had no idea if I was doing it properly!
Pity you didn't comment on the sound levels, 72.6-67.4=5.2db more than _TWICE_ as loud (3db = 2x) 😁😁
Wow what a difference between the two sanders.Excellent indepth video,we need an update on the sander in 12 months
And don't forget you can buy this sander with a 2.5mm or 5mm stroke and it will accept a 125mm pad as well. If the carriage wasn't so ridiculous I'd have a punt. Good video Keith you built on Peter's original review nicely.
Id love to take it apart and examine the build quality of the electronics, be interesting to determine the likely failure modes. See if the lack of dynamic speed controller allows for the motor FET circuitry to actually be more robust than the Mirka.
AvE should get on it!
Interesting video. I was recently looking into getting the Mirka, but was put off by the price of it.
A note on the dust extraction comparison though. If the Mirka has already been used a lot, it might have a fine layer of dust inside of it, which could effect the air resistance and therefore the performance.
That's a very good point. Thanks
Fascinating. Always loved the concept and design of the Deros but reliability issues more or less started to appear a month after the tools release! That and, having held and played with it at a few shows, for me it's light weight was worrisome. The cult around it has always surprised me. Granted, being light working above head or around angles and curves is a bonus but in my experience, a bit of weight on a tool (in the right areas) has usually meant reliable. My choice would be the Festool ETS EC if I ever plump for a low-prof. Already got 7 sanders of varying types so I'm in no rush. Great comparison Keith.
Cheers 👍 the ETS EC looks interesting. Aaaaand then I saw the price 😳
Love the nitty bits of humour in your videos. Can't fight ageing, recessing hair lines nor shaking hands on the hair trimmer :D
I have also had a series of repair issues with both the Deros and the previous Mirka Ceros sander.
The Mirka has a brake seal that will wear over time yours might need to be replaced. Mine still works fine and stops in about 2 seconds and the seal is virtually brand new. As far as the sander jerking, that is the motor disengaging it’s called a torque reaction. It’s similar to when you turn on a drill at full speed and then let go of the trigger suddenly.
Very interesting video you would automatically assume the Deros would out perform anything else on the market. The Hyvst dressed as other brands with warranties seem a decent option to me, totally looking into them this afternoon.
Cheers Alistair yeah I completely agree, if/when my mirka dies I will probably be investing in one too 👍
Mirka has better bearings?
Or the bearing have freed up more due to usage.
I'd love to see a similar review of the Festool sanders, I've been debating between the Deros and a Rotex.
It's a no-brainer! You will never regret buying a festool sander ( unless you buy the wrong one for the job you are doing!)
Definetly a rotex. DEROS is just a ROS, rotex is geared so it can also do very aggressive sanding and buffing as well.
Plus you get 3years free repair and theft insurance. I think you get a receipt (possibly) with the mirka.
Did you see my rotex125 review?
@@BrainFizz not yet, gonna have to go watch it.
Rotex is heavy and bulletproof my oldest one is about 10 years old.
It’s good if your doing flat work needing heavy sanding.
Deros is great for overhead decorating work as it’s so light.
Festool do so many sanders , cordless range is really good but you always need main extraction so great for those little jobs.
Trouble is you need so many sanders for different applications, there is no one tool does it all.
I do like the mirka abrasives use them on all sanders.
Reliability outweighs just about everything else. It only breaks when you need it. Also, for a sander especially I prefer switch selectable speeds as it’s a challenge (impossible) for me to maintain a steady pressure on the switch (any type) as I move the sander around. Thanks for the video.
Completely agree 👍
You could just buy 2 of the china version to solve the reliability issue and it would still be cheaper than buying one deros.
@@koolkid1234ism простите, что по русски, переведете,но как раз китайские клоны надежнее, я хотел покупать мирку,отказался от нее именно из-за отзывов, очень много поломок у них. Купил екиджи, это тоже, что и на видео, работаю два года каждый день, все отлично, так я шлифую автомобили! А это для них хуже дерева
You just saved me a LOT of money! Thank you!!
Come on Sealy, send Mr. Brown a sander for him to evaluate!
A good honest review 👍👍
Great vid and loved the Ave reference! love that guy's channel lol
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
What is the vibration values of the tools? I'm sure mirka used to be best in class for that spec?
Here in Canada we get the maxxt with 150 mm pad and 125 mm pad combo for 225$ cad and performs exactly like the mirka , reliability wise not sure yet it's still new and hasn't been used alot , but if you looking for reliability then the festool ets 150 is ideal and reliable
Mirka is still lighter and has lower gravity point.
if anyone is thinking of getting one,I bought the sealey one from Ffx for £162, and it really great, super powerful and pretty solid. The cable is ridiculously short though, but can be swapped out. would recommend.
I have a ceros since 2012. It has been back for repairs twice. The second time the price for the repair was about 2/3’s the price of a brand new one. I have a festool ets ec125 3 and a rotex ro150 and I prefer the ceros for most of my work.
I believe the reason you are getting bigger scratch pattern is probably due to the fact that the pad is not as flat as it once was.
paint brush for the dust removal has won the competition ;)
Bet this video took a long time to make Keith, especially with those re-tests. But excellent results. Given the surprising nature of some of the results, I'd like to see someone (not a Festool fanboy) do the same with some of those stupidly priced German tools versus cheaper options. Thanks for all that effort.
Go to Peter Millards excellent Channel 10minuteworkshop and he has loads of Festool v's Cheap Tool videos. Also before you get bent out of shape about the price of Festool Kit, go buy a few pieces and see for yourself why they are so highly regarded. Or maybe you should go and look at the prices of Mafell and other top end manufacturers. They charge what they do because they are worth every red cent and anybody who uses them will tell you the same.
@@Dickie2702 Hmmm, see, no critical distance at all.
@@1959ticktock Well if you don't think "Festool Fanboy" is a tad provocative I do.
So come on then how many "stupidly priced German tools" do you actually own?
Do you make your living from the tools you own?
@@Dickie2702 One, though I think that is actually Swiss? Of course Festool fanboy is provocative. It was meant to be. Peter Millard is still trading on the fact he used to be a business/fitter. If he were starting again, from where he is now, he'd be unlikely to be buying a set of Festool by which to judge everything else. Most hobby woodworkers would benefit from getting the 3 to 1 ratio of purchase power for power tools the Festool vs the rest implies. However, if you're going to use tools professionally, the investment might be justified. But how many UA-cam watchers are in that category? And if they are that alone implies a different status etc. This is the first time I've indulged in/entered into a Festool vs the rest dialogue. And I feel slightly silly doing so, given how cliche'd it is. But, at this moment in time, it beats the hell out of arguing whether it is right to wear face-masks or not. No offence Richard.
@@1959ticktock Not sure Festool make face masks but if they did................lol.
Trust me I am as keen on saving money as the next person but as well as the undoubted quality of the tools they are, as someone who works wood for a living, an absolute pleasure to use, bit like driving a luxury car. Yes they are eye wateringly expensive but they can only command that price because they are, in the main, vastly superior and people like me see value in what they bring to the table.
For example the Domino. Unique, unbelievably robust and reliable and just a total game changer for any woodworker at any level. It paid for itself within two weeks of me buying it and I would say to anybody if you are at all serious about woodworking this would be the one tool I would recommend they save up and buy.
I guess I took offence as you seemed to be implying that these tools were simply overpriced. No they are priced right where they should be and they can only continue to stay at that level if they, and they do, put money in to R&D and continually innovate and produce tools that push the limits of accuracy and usability.
So I guess you must own an Elu Router???
Glad we kissed and made up 😁😁😁
Another alternative is the Flex ORE 5-150 EC. Seems to be an original product of Flex, not a sibling of the Hyvst. Also brushless 150mm with 5mm stroke. Just got one at 280€. Initial impressions are good, but I can’t compare it to Deros or other 150mm 5mm stroke sanders as I have not used them.
Cheers, wasn't aware of that one. Looks interesting 🤔
Just a note that there is also a version of the mirka deros rebranded by Metabo, and as far as I can tell by using it, it's exactly the same. Even down to the fact you can use the mirka app via Bluetooth with it, even though in the manual for the Metabo, there is no mention of it being Bluetooth.
www.metabo.com/uk/en/tools/cutting-sanding-milling/wood-processing/random-orbital-sander/sxe-150-5-0-bl-615050700-random-orbital-sander.html
Great comparison Keith.. I have nothad any issues with mine and got agreat deal when Mirka were doing a trade in deal... But these clones look a great option. I use the abranet (mainly because i got 4boxes free) but i have recently tried Mirka NOVASTAR Sanding Discs for my end grain cutting boards and they are really tough and last ages... Cheers Paul
6:35 The different result in sanding finish between both, in the advantage of the Hyvst, is propably due the lenght of the electric cable.
The longer the cable, the more voltage drop. I bet, if you could do a RPM reading under load, that the RPM on the Hyvst is higher then on the Mirka.
If my guess is right, and you have a energymeter (plugin device for measuring power consumption), that the Mirka consump more power due the lower RPM.
The lower RPM draws more current through the entire device, and that could be the reason that the Mirka isn't reliable.
Lets assume they both use 0,5mm cable thickness (gnd and +) and draw 2A (which would be 460W) even then, voltage drop would just be 1.4V (0,6%). Thats completely negligible. :)
And you can't get a USA version 🥺 I can't find a US merca knockoff compatible with our electric outlet anywhere . 😞
Do you know what the equivalent knock off is for the US market?
Looks pretty much like the Menzer ETS 150 5.0. Menzer is a German company and the ETS 150 5.0 comes with a systainer and many accesories as well with waranty and support for 220€.
Hi Keith. I just dropped a vid about the Mirka and was told you had too, seems we both had very similar to say although I didn't know about the reliability issues - long story short Ive been having issues with the Festool plug-it cable/sockets on my ETS and Rotex so borrowed my brothers Mirka, well I didn't like it at all. Anyway I'll get to my point I see you have a plug it cable hanging up in the background, have you had any issues with this where the tool stops and starts when in use? Im trying to get to the bottom of it, right down to sawing in half a plugin cable, I've ordered new cable and female socket for the ETS if that solves it, I'm worried the issue could of spread to other tools sockets... Also a subscriber said in a comment on one of my videos a while ago saying something like "he's a bit late to the came and comes from a recommendation from you" I didn't know anything about that till then, I asked where so I could come and thank you but I never received a reply from him, please dont think I was being rude I just didn't know, while I'm here thank you for that, that was very kind of you!
Hiya Ben. Yeah I watched your video about the sanders. Agreed with almost all your points apart from the cable one: the Festool cables feel flimsy to me, I always feel like I'm gonna break it, whereas the Mirka feels more like a quality cable to me. Hate the way it plugs in to the sander though, awkward to get to. I haven't had any issues with the Festool cable though and I got it secondhand with the domino so it's doing well really, I'm probably just paranoid about breaking it. I only have the one Festool tool so not much experience but I've heard that Peter Millard has broken a few over the years. I've not tried the ETS150 sander although would like to, especially hearing your thoughts. No worries about the recommendation it was on a podcast called Workshop Banter, episode 7 or 8 I think it was... Next time I do a vlog video here on my channel I plan on mentioning here too. First video I saw of yours was the table saw restoration that came up in my recommendations, I was absolutely blown away by the work you did to that. Amazing to watch. And been binge watching your channel ever since. Keep up the good work! And sorry for the essay 🤣
@@RagnBoneBrown I think i you you’re in Norwich aren’t you?
I am yes
They Hyvst seems to have jumped in price since Peter's/Your video. The Sealey is now almost the same price and almost certainly worth paying the few £'s extra for the warranty and support.
I’ve always used Dewalt sander but only last 1 year I’m going to try a different brand may Bosch
Não sei falar em inglês.
Na sua opinião são bastante parecidas?
Very interesting review, Keith. Like you, I assumed the Mirka would out-perform the Hyvst. I can't see beyond the 'F' I have at the moment, such that I would take some convincing not to get another one when it goes tits up. Although I try not to be a brand slave. All the best for you next year!
Thank you, happy Christmas
The Mirka is much faster sanding and best in class in terms of dust collection but only when using abranet disks. The machine is designed for those disks and it shows.
I've had my mirka for probably 7 years, and it's been absolutely hammered. In total we have 3. And 2 vacs. Had it serviced once. And trust me its Rock hard. And your using 120 grit on a 5mm orbit....that's not a design for any sort of finish...if the hivs doesn't leave marks. It's probably not good enough. For finishing you be better of with the 2.5mm orbit. And 180...Bluetooth? The arbranet disks are far superior to any sanding disk. Even on timber. If your trying to be convinced on sanding disks. Come spend some time with us..not trying to be negative but. In my opinion. A heavy mirka user. I'd put them over festool.....
Wish I'd seen this before buying the Mirka... 🙄 ...great vid as usual but was surprised not to see the cat involved in the sound test???
3 years in how’s your Mirka holding up?
HI have you looked at the Metabo 615050000 240v 150mm SXE 5.0BL looks like a bit cheaper version of the mirka
Is there going to be an update video on your table saw now you have had it for a few months? Has the step up from the Dewalt DW745 been as remarkable as you hoped for? Do you get much better accuracy and refined adjustments on your new saw? And how about those niggles you mentioned in the table saw video - have you overcome them, learned to live with them, or are they so minor that you don't even think about them anymore?
Thank you, a well researched and balanced view. Cheers Dave
Thanx! All I need to know.
What sanding discs were you using? Didn’t look like Abranet. Stick those on and you’ll see the Mirka extract nearly all the dust particles. The other one wouldn’t.
I explained in the video about abranet. I don't like them. I highly doubt the mirka would beat the hyvst if abranet were used on both
Ok. How are both sanders performing now?
I’m trying to buy a Hyvst to give it a go. Can’t find one anywhere. Do they still make them?
As explained in the video, the Hyvst is not my sander so not sure why you're asking me how it's performing. When you say can't find one anywhere, where are you looking? I type Hyvst sander in to Google and the first result is the Hyvst sander available to buy 🤷♂️
🤷🏼♂️
The brake only stops the orbital part..
The mirka spinning on longer shows that the bearings better
Just been on the Ali express website and it’s £113 with no accessories and £140 with the accessories plus £23 carriage.
Would be much better to go for the sealy that has a guarantee and a dedicated online back up
This is the second video about the Mirka of yours that i have watched. Since you purchased the Mirka on Ebay, do you know the stroke pattern on the Mirka? If it's a more aggressive pattern, then you will get more sanding marks. However both sanders appear to have the same sanding time. For sandpaper try Cubitron by 3M. Available on Amazon in the US.
I actually won my Mirka on the Popular Woodworking Christmas drawing. It stopped working within the three year warranty and they fixed it without any problems. However it stopped working again after the warranty had expired. No, they would not fix it again at no charge. I debated a couple of weeks before I decided to throw a $230.00 repair into the $650.00 (free) sander. If it breaks again, I’m not sending it in for repair again.
As mentioned in the video, a home wood shop use of this “professional “ tool is just a few hours. I doubt if I’ve used it even 50 hours total.
I would be totally pissed if I was a drywall installer and my $650 sander went kaput twice in four years.
Very interesting. I imagine the speed up being slower and spin down being slower on the Hyvst would be down to weight?
Could be the bearings.. More Resistance on the cheaper one perhaps
que diferencia hay entre la de 2mm y la de 5mm ?
Thanks for video What are the dust attachments your using on the sanders?
Hey, great video. Was that a Milwaukee "SYSTAINER"? The stacking tool boxes look a lot different from the ones we have in the USA. just curious.
Those pigtails are from the crappy punched hole sandpaper, any Sander will make those. Interesting to hear of your customer relation issues with mirka considering the price of their products
I watched the video a while back and watched again as I was thinking about a Mirka. I then realised you compared the Hyst to Menzer. I think Hyst is just a copy. I live in Germany and Menzer is a German company. They specialise in sanders especially larger industrial sanders like Drywall and Floor sanders. Given the various Mirka reliability issues and the fact Menzer is German I will go for a Menzer.
Great review that 👍🏻
I don't know if they're available in the UK but Metabo makes a licensed version of the Mirka, it's the exact same machine and actually cheaper. Haven''t used the Metabo yet but I use the Mirka daily and I gotta say it desevers the hype in my view.
Could you do a comparison of the Metabo SXE-150? It looks identical to Deros and I read that it even allows you to use the Mirka app to pair too it.
It is the same as the Mirka, or so I've heard
Really interesting video keith. Like you i hate sanding. My sander cost £40 as im poor & the idea of spending lots of money on a sander doesnt appeal to me. Not right now anyway.
Yeah neither of them are cheap unfortunately
The brake ring on your Mirka is worn out. Just remove one or two washers from the sanding pad (the're on a mounting screw) and you'll see how quickly it stops. Regarding the sanding quality I have also some doubts cause mine doesn't leave those nasty swirl marks. There may be any problems with the bearing or anything. It's not too correct to compare the brand new tool with the one that has a hard life behind.
That's a fair point I guess
I noticed that it's been 8 months since you uploaded the video, how do you like the sander since then? Did any problems come up ?
Btw that was a great video, thank you so much for taking the time to make all these tests. As well as for being so realistic and fair with what each product offers. It was greatly useful!
Hi. It's not my sander, as explained at the beginning of the video
I’d love to see how the Airvantage 5” palm sander stacks up against the Mirka. From what I can tell they are direct competitors. Both known for their quality air sanders, and have since branched to include electric. The price difference is enough to raise the question, at almost 50% 😳.
what is the difference between these machine and the regular other orbital sanders like Makita bo5030 ?
They have a 5mm stroke, the Makita only has 2.8mm
A great comparison test.
All that talk and no spreadsheet. For shame keith, for shame. Great and thorough review. Happy holidays
No graphs either! Next time 👍
Video top bem explicado 👏👏👏
I think that the results would have been different if the Mirka was used with the designated Abranet grid sanding paper.
That would not be a fair comparison. And if I used it on both sanders I expect both sanders would perform similarly anyway
Hi Keith.
Thanks for the vid, was thinking perhaps the main issue with your mirka breaking down originally was with the company you brought it from, and the runaround they gave you, as i seem to remember you rang mirka direct about it and it was resolved straight away with that company more or less? So perhaps there lies the main headache, as you seemed to have highlighted that issue more than once?. I bought my Deros from Mirka direct, to avoid that headache if there was a problem with a 3rd party, such as you've experienced.My Deros hasn't let me down once, absolutely fantastic tool,but all tools , as we all know, no matter what price paid can and do break down, that in mind would i take a chance on a chinese one at half the price with no 3 year warranty? Nope.Been there too many times before. Would be good to hear from mirka what thier 'true' warranty rate is on the Deros, i.e. taking out factors like abuse or misuse, doubt they'd ever divulge that tho'.Would like to see the dust fall out test with the abranet discs on the mirka, would be very good to see that test comparrison. Anyways, all the best,keep up the good work
👍G..
Yes Mirka resolved the issue swiftly, it was the repair company that were trying to be awkward. The fact that I had an email confirming the warranty from Mirka after I registered it as far as I'm concerned means they need to stand by it and repair without question
Absolutely right Keith👍
Ordered one after Peter’s review. Still waiting for it 😂
Could be sometime but I have never had anything from Bangood or Aliexpress not arrive eventually.
my Mirka stopped working i checked the cable and it was broken put a new cable on it and it’s been ok since
Don’t wrap the cable round the mirka like I did !!!
SAND DUST SPREAD-OUT FROM THE COOLING FAN BLADES ON THE ARMATURE ! 👍
Great vid and yes, I think this us the same as the Sealy. Been using Abranet sanding discs for about 5 months now and yes, they do last longer because they don’t clog and because of this they also provide a better more uniform finish with less effort than conventional papers.
Same here the power blew off on me twice ! Mirka needs to get their shit together for a $700 sander
Great video as always, you were inventive on methods of testing. Great looking pieces of kit, very quiet compared to my £40 b&d!! Strewth what a price though. How do both compare to a Milwaukee equivalent?
I've tried looking for those new mesh sanding discs, but not been able to find any..saw a good review by Katz-Moses & Stumpy Bubba on them, they sounded indestructible!
I use the Mirka deros daily for wood finishing and love it 😍
Thank you very much
I think Peter has already covered this!
It is not a fair comparison. The Mirka is a used tool.The Hivst is almost new.
My Mirka for example has been repaired too but has never been as good as new when it performed beautifully in terms of finish quality, noise and vibration. Now it is almost like a normal sander, unfortunately.
Great comparison video. Have you used the Hyvst much since this ,if so how's it been holding up?
It's not my sander, it was loaned to me
Great video
Same weight?
My hobby use deros broke after only a few hours of use. It would just never turn off. The warranty service was not great either. I had to send it back twice, and then they finally sent me a new one. It has been fine since. It seems as if they are just not acknowledging that they have a very large bad batch of units. Very poor choice in the companies part.
In comparison to the hyvst the menzer has a 4 meter cable
Fascinating!
Cheers John