@The Wood Whisperer. Hey man, great video. I think you were informative and unbiased and mentioned a whole slew of things I as a woodworker wouldn’t have thought of or at least would have overlooked. Your execution and wordage was spot on and I am entirely impressed with how you put together this video. Keep up the great work!
Little disappointed we can't enter the giveaway from Canada, eh 😁. I can't realistically afford either, would have appreciated the only chance I'd ever own one. Oh well, back out the workshop igloo.
@thewoodwhisperer Thanks for this vid! Tommorows my birthday and was planning on using my Bday cash plus what Ive been saving for the Mirka for long time now, but instead went to the pharmacy to find out my (very ill) wife lost her insurance and We had to use the cash for all her meds. Little sad, but the good news is, now YOU JUST SAVED ME $125!!!! I’LL definitely be saving for the Festool now instead as after watching this feel its a better fit for me. Ill be using it for making guitars/Ukes and other acoustic string instruments primarily. Ive getting by with my old Ryobi on a foot controller, but it has more faults than not and now it intermittently cuts power. Thanks again for your videos and Podcast. My wife and I love listening together and you’ve ( and Shannon n Matt) have even helped us through some rough times with your laughs and the fun y’all have. ~Beaty & Peace~ Kyle ( and Lucy too :) )
I’ve used the festool for several years at the cabinet shop I worked at. A MIRKA rep came by and left his sander with me to try out. As you were listing the likes and dislikes of each, I found myself agreeing with all of your comments. The paddle switch was the deal breaker for me. Changing hand position is absolutely necessary when sanding all day, or even all week as the case may be. One thing I did take away from that experience is Mirkas abranet sanding discs. I found those to be superior to the festool abrasives. At the time I was sanding miles of hard maple hand rail for a large hospital project and was able to purchase matching MIRKA abrasives for my festool and surfprep sanders which worked well. I found those abrasives to leave less swirl marks on the stain-grade wood than any of the other festool abrasives I tried. Excellent video, couldn’t agree more.
Totally agree. I’ve used that Festool for years, but was given a couple re-badged Mirka sanders (don’t want to say the company) and I just couldn’t get past all the things you pointed out. Great video for anyone shopping around.
@@W0pper1997 thanks, not sure what top secret info that dude was trying to keep safe by not telling us what clandestine, classified brand uses Merka parts.
Since my bread and butter comes refinish work I went with the Mirka and you nailed it when you mentioned pneumatic sanders. I used them on a professional level for about 27 years. I love the paddle for start stop. The only reason I never bought one later in life is the fact that takes a giant compressor to operate it. So for years after leaving a shop I farted around using the cheaper ROS palm sanders like Dewalt, Makita etc. Those burn out so damn fast and the vibration factor you mentioned is spot on. They are murder on the hands, especially when you have arthritis. So when the Mirka sanders came out, my business partner and I each bought one. Now this dude HATES sanding and our first job was 114 doors to refinish in a nursing home, those sanders did really help, especially with the low profile design. That was about 3 years ago, I finally changed the original pad last year after numerous furniture and construction jobs. Now I am sure the Festool would be just as good but like you mentioned it is a preference and mine is with the ergonomics and the paddle. Now would I kick the Festool out of my (very tiny) shop? Most likely not.
For me personally I prefer the Mirka. Primarily it's all about the lower center of gravity. However I'm also a cabinet finisher and use Mirka pneumatic sanders at work, so I'm used to that lower center of gravity that pneumatics have compared to most electric sanders. Electrics almost always feel top-heavy in my hands. Funnily enough when it comes to the actual paper, having tried maaaany different brands I don't like either festool's or mirka's offerings as much as 3M cubitron. It seems to cut faster, last longer, clog less and even seems to reduce what little vibration these premium sanders do have. Anyways, thanks for the comparison; it's always worthwhile to hear others viewpoints and experiences. Keep up the good work.
I have a lot of hours using both sanders. My thoughts 💭 1: I also prefer no paddle as sometimes I like to clamp the sander upside down for small parts, and like mark change my grip. 2: I like that you can buy a hard pad for the Festool. Helps keep corners crisp. 3: the mirka is cheaper in the 🇬🇧 you also can get sets with a range of mesh sanding discs included, extraction hose and a 125mm pad included, still cheaper than the Festool. 4: curveball - you can get a metabo version of the mirka that is identical but no Bluetooth gimmicks and cheaper, especially if you get the version that just comes in a cardboard box 📦 5: worth noting I got very noticeable swirl marks with the 5mm Festool. They seemed to think there was a fault with the machine to do that but I didn’t want to take the chance and swapped for the 3mm stroke that leaves a superb finish
This is by far the best comparison video of these two tools! Thank you very much. I really appreciate the work that you put into the video because it’s very precise and gives good overview about the specs the mechanics the brakes.
I think Mirka is oriented more to the paint shop than to the average woodworker and comes from the world of pneumatic tools, hence the pedal. For the paint shop, it makes sense to have a wide range of different abrasives to deal with different metals, composites and paints. And where even the slightest bit of dust is your enemy, all those holes or even the further development, grids, can be a huge advantage.
I’ve been painting cars for 15 years. I have the electric and pneumatic Mirka. Never used the festool but these are a great upgrade from a typical DA sander. I do a lot of vertical and horizontal sanding obviously on vehicles everyday. I also use the net disc which I think are only slightly better than the holes I find they creep on the pad only using maybe half a hole. I actually prefer the variable paddle, I liken it to a chainsaw or sawzall, where you can cut quickly or delicately by the amount of push on the trigger. Sandpaper makes the difference, mirka is supreme to 3M and they specialize in that market, only making abrasives but that market consist of different industries from wood, Collision, jewelry work etc. there is more to a sander than just sanding also. Most will only use the orbit motion but it’s also a grinder, spinning the pad up to full speed to specific work I do this all the time because it cuts differently. Maybe this is why you experienced jumping, the mirka spins more than the festool? On horizontal sanding I use my whole hand on top, while horizontal sanding I usually use both hands, one of the rear or grasping the hose and placing my fingers inside the hole and using my thumb on the paddle for ultimate control.
The Festool is a sander that doesn't jerk by switching on or off, and like this tes,t the Festool fibrates even less than the Mirka. For a guitar finisher that is gold, especially when wet sanding the last clear coats as i want the sander NOT to make scratches which a jerking sander will do. I sold the Mirka.
@@Steinstra-vj7wl I agree the mirka does jump. I use a smaller orbit DA for finishing 3/32 and larger for prep work 3/16. I can see how you don’t like the jump action in your context when your striving for perfection most likely on a high value guitar. The jump is no problem for me and is not even noticed I’m simply looking for a factory car finish that will survive the UV’s from the sun and 80 mph down the highway. My finishing is only for dirt nibs and not glassing out like you are. I nib with 1500, 2000, 3000 then compound and polishing. I think it’s constructive to criticize a tool that cost so much, maybe 2.0 will be better. Cheers
Hi Marc - I came to much the same conclusions as yourself when I reviewed these exact same units a couple of years back. It's worth reading the manual of the Mirka DEROS as it would have clarified a number of points raised. Regarding stopping speed, the pad has a number of metal shims on the spindle that are removed as the replaceable rubber dust boot/pad bearing surface wears. These increase the friction between the two and controls stopping speed. Both the dust boot and pads are consumable items. The DEROS has a combination of button presses that change the function of the paddle from variable to on/off, the exact combination of which doesn't occur to me right now. The Festool I received had an incorrect counterbalance fitted; that for the 3,0mm orbit and not 5,0mm which increased vibration in use. The Mirka has optional weight nut/bolts on the counterweight for adding/subtracting weight when one uses an interface or change between the 125/150mm pads. I settled on the DEROS and various sizes of Mirka pneumatics since I use them virtually every day in my professional life (wood, Corian, paint) and also for my personal home project work. I chose the 2,5mm orbit variant, stick entirely to using the 125mm pad and generally use Mirka's Abranet mesh rather than "holes with sandpaper added to keep them together". I rarely use paper on machines these days. I disagree that the Festool integrates with the rest of their ecosystem/walled garden beyond the Festool-specific power cable and systainer. The brand loyalty has longer legs than that integration! Over time I found that the paddle of the DEROS lays under the palm joint of my index finger and is very controllable without excess grip or pressure. Cheers, hope you're safe and well!
Had my Mirka for 4 months now and have to say it’s one of the best power tools I have purchased, it’s a dream to use lightweight simple and removes stock rapidly particularly if you use the Abranet discs. With regards your comments on the paddle switch when changing discs it’s simple turn it off, if you have a short lapse memory on this stay clear of Woodworking tools. If I want to just do a gentle sand just depress the paddle slightly or turn the speed down, but I never do I just apply less pressure. It’s a simple machine to use and after a few hours you get used to how to actually operate it. I can not comment on the festool as I had a Metabo orbital sander for 10 years previous to this never let me down but can not do half the things the Mirka can do just because of weight and low centre of gravity. I find this an extension of my hand and a joy to use, who likes sanding no one but this little machine makes it so much better.
Habits formed over 15-20 years are hard to break over a few hours, or even months. If you're working in a production environment, where you're sanding for hours and jumping between projects it's *very* easy for muscle memory to kick in and place the sander upside down. I'm glad you're enjoying the sander, I enjoy mine too, and someone finding flaws in it that only affect them doesn't take away from that.
Something really important to note is that if you want your Mirka to last more than a couple years. Run it at 1 or 2 clicks down from max on the speed controler. I used to sell both of these and we had A LOT of mirka come through for repair with busted speed controllers.
I've had mine 6 yesterday full speed and all been fine till a couple weeks ago when stopped working. Thankfully have now figured it's the sander cable that's the issue
I have a Handyman / Contractor business in Ontario Canada and I own both units. As you stated Mark the less weight of the Mirka unit makes it a good choice for overhead drywalling sanding. And the Festool sander is just another tool that I use with the Festool system....both do an excellent job.
@@lilbeanie5078 Hutchins has had dust collection for decades and the best quality pneumatic sanders in the industry, in my opinion. If you want pneumatic, take a look at them.
I apprenticed in cabinetmaking long ago, and all I have ever used (until recently), were Dynabrade pneumatic sanders. You can actually play that paddle like a fiddle after using one for years. Electric sanders seem like sanding with a hot brick that takes forever to remove material. 🥴
Less fatigue is certainly important if you sand often and for longer periods of time. I worked for years in shops where we had pneumatic sanders with the paddle switch and I think that's just something you get used to. Any of the less expensive alternates will do just a good a sanding job (several reviews bear this out). I'm on my 5th or 6th orbital sander (I"ve had Milwaukee, Makita, Black and Decker and Bosch). They all were fine, did the job but along the years were lost, stolen, dropped or moved on to my son. Sanding is my least favourite part of woodworking and I use hand planes, scrapers and my thickness sander whenever I can but using the Festool compared to the other orbitals is a nicer experience. If you only use an orbital occasionally or have a restricted budget any of the others sands just as well - a little louder and with more vibration but still does the job.
Very interesting perspective on that paddle, after seeing several other folks raving about the Mirka. Both are more than I want to spend, but still interesting to learn about. Thanks, Marc.
I have been debating this with as many guy’s I could find that own both, but never got as concise and accurate info as you convey! Thanks for making my decision to get the Festool a much easier one! Great comparison!
I have used Festool sanders for several years. We use the 5" at the shop where I work. We have recently purchased (6 months ago) 3 of the 5" Mirkas and all 3 have been sent off to be repaired. Still using the Festools that were purchased several years ago. The Mirka does seem to be more aggressive and cut the material down faster, but if it has to be sent off to be repaired, not really worth it. The other thing I have noticed is that the Mirka gets hot compared to the Festool. The Mirka rep has informed us that there is a power converter or some type of component inside that they will replace, so that the sander will not wear out as quickly. Reminds me of when DeWalt switched from one type of tool to residential and commercial, and you had to be careful to buy the right one.
Interesting side by side, and thanks for the insight from the wood side of things. A couple of things you said stood out, predominantly about the pneumatic sanders. It strikes me that the Mirka is aimed at automotive refinishers rather than woodworkers. The slow stop and paddle are benefits when working with metal, as is the variable speed to ensure that you don’t burn paint or warp panels. So from my background (automotive) these are definitely positives over the Festool. (That said at times doing woodwork in a predominantly metal shop has significant disadvantages). The other thing is the pricing, not sure why it’s so disparate in the US, but in Europe and Australia they are both even pricing, or the Mirka is slightly cheaper. Festool seems to command a larger premium here in Australia too (domino prices are crazy). Thanks again for the insight though.
I agree with your thoughts as I work in auto collision industry and mirka is a better product because of those things mentioned by you.While the pneumatic DA is still better and cheaper (if you already have a compressor)the mirka deros is a excellent tool if you have no air .I own one and hope it will give me many years of trouble free time.
Yeah, I dont know whats up with Festool prices in Norway, but here its even worse. The Festool is 1100 dollars, but the Mirka is alot cheaper at 690 dollars. Festool you can only buy in shops that is aimed at professionals. So I gues the pros have a lot of discount. I realy like a lot of the Festool products, but with the Norwegian importers prices for «normal» people, its just crazy expencive.
Thank you for this review / comparison of the exact 2 premium sanders that I’m considering upgrading to; particular thanks for your honest caveats! Your video has empowered me to know which sander is right for my needs (& desires); again due, in large part, to the caveats & closing comments you made. Grateful subscriber.
I have both. I thought I was gonna love the Mirka when I upgraded to it, but the paddle is kind of the deal breaker for me. I kept them both but reach for the Festool more because I don't like having to depress the paddle all the time. Spot on review Mark
Thanks Sam. Like i mentioned in the review, if you're used to that paddle it might be something you like. But if you never used one before, I can't see why anyone would prefer it.
I have both but my Mirka is the original Ceros. The Mirka does have the option of variable speed or a fixed speed. , you just need to read the owners manual to find out how. I do not like the Festool , I almost never use it as it seems to rough to me. I also use a Rotex Which I like for some work.
@@duaynenaugle561 The new model also has the two control modes. So The comment of only having 1/4" or paddle movement to control the speed applies to that specific control mode. I have the Ceros (old model) too but considering the new model Deros, I have my Ceros programed for on-off and not variable speed- to adjust the speed, which I do often, I use the + & - buttons.
@@woodwhisperer Thanks for this review. Couple of things, well three - this model Mirka also takes a 5" pad, no? Mirka also do a 8mm throw random orbit in Europe (maybe not available there?) . Lastly my experience of both sanders over a few years, is the Festool is the better engineered of the two, and the Mirka is the more ergonomic. For anyone out there deciding on the Mirka, it doesn't do well driving it at full speed for long periods of time, and even less so if leaning into the work (this will not do the duty of a Rotex like geared sander) - also the warranty (at least here in UK) does not cover the speed control or the power lead failing. All in all, if I had to choose between the two I'd second your conclusion. Saying that it's great to have the Mirka as well, particularly for overhead work.
Thanks! I'm sold! I have a window and door restoration company, and I am going to finally buy a top grade sander. I will buy the Festol...hands down. Appreciate the video.
This is what I’ve been waiting for. Glad you took the time to really compare these two. I am now leaning festool as I already have a couple tools in my shop.
Well done and thank you. Thank you for being able to post more on you tube as well. I am a partial guild member but I am impressed enough with your format that I will be joining soon
Thanks Marc. Great common sense review. So many outlets just proclaiming Mirka to be the best right now. Hard to know who to listen to and their motivations. This was just what I needed.
By the way. I just really want to say thank you for this review. I genuinely trust your opinion. I have been on the fence. I haven't found reliable reviews from creditable sources regarding Festool vs. Mirka, on UA-cam or in any of the wood working forums. So thank you again.
Marc, the Mirka paddle actually has 2 modes-in one mode it’s just on/off and in the other mode it’s variable speed. I just use mine in on/off mode. Regarding accessories, I got mine with both a 5” and 6” pad. The 5” is great for small work, and it’s super easy to switch pads, Also, mine stops dead within half a second so I’m not sure why yours takes a couple seconds. I got the Mirka because the Festool felt very uncomfortable in my hand, though I love the Festool’s switch. Also as you noted, the Mirka has a lower center of gravity. Great review covering so many aspects!
Thanks for you honest review, Marc. We went from Ridgid, to DeWalt, to Mirka. Brittany does 99% of the sanding, so her whole decision process was based on feel. She has small hands and the Mirka just fit her hand better. I’ve been looking forward to this since we never used the Festool.
Like you, I have both. I paid for both as well. I agree with 100% of everything you said in this video. Would like to add a few more comments for those sitting on the edge of the fence. Both products are expensive. Both products will break down and need to be serviced from time to time so one thing to consider is turn around time and warranty issues. Mirka made 2 big mistakes in the design of their sanders. First, the peddle is 100% useless and is only on the tool to make it look like an air sander. It actually causes more hand fatigue is very distracting while working because the sander goes on and off all the time when one has to adjust their hand. Mirka sand paper is hard to find where I live as well. As said in the video, they do make sand paper types, names and uses way to complex. Mirka also has a major problem with their control switches. They short out. I went through 3 sanders with very little use. All had the same issue. Warranty was honored and the customer service was good. I rarely use my Mirka's today for this one problem. I am afraid I will have to go through the return process again which has cost me too much money from lost production time without a working tool and waiting for the problem to be resolved. If Mirka does not get rid of the useless peddle and fix the computer control issues, it is my opinion that they will not be around in the woodworking business too much longer. Festool has problems too. First, their customer service sucks and is actually some of the worst customer service I have ever experienced in business. Second, Festool refuses to acknowledge they have a major problem with their sanding pads. The foam in the pads crumble forcing me to buy new pads all the time. They are not cheap and will fall apart in the package they come in as well. They need to address this problem once and for all. Festool also has a problem with the plastics they make their sustainers with. They fall apart when exposed to U.V rays. I own a lot of Festools' and this is a consistent problem. The Festool Hepa Vac's also have major problem Festool refuses to address. After my 3rd motor housing cracked, I no longer use Festool Hepa Vac's. Just my thoughts and sticking up for people like me who spend hard earned money on tools that are indented to make our projects easier, less costly in labor, and and end result second to none. Ender User/Painting contractor/Fine woodworking
Honestly I don’t see myself ever buying either of these two but I absolutely loved this video and did watch it till the very end. Somehow made me appreciate my crappy Rigid 6” sander more but no idea why!
Probably because you don’t see the $400 extra value in either of these sanders. And that’s not a dig on you, it just means that you wouldn’t fully need the extra value possibly in the amount of time you use your sander or type of work you do. I actually agree at this point in my woodworking as well, I def don’t need a $525 sander let alone a $650 one.
iit just shows you this is such an unbiased comparison compared to other channels that were clearly getting paid to favour one off the sanders. great to see honesty. one thing i think you forgot to say mirke do a 125mm sanding pad festool dont
Yup. Just don’t think that’s a big deal. Something I also forgot to mention is that Festool offers pads in different densities, a far more useful option in my opinion. So we’ll call that a tie. 😂
Thank you, Marc! This was such an informative overview of the two sanders. I do love my Festool, but next time I might have to try out the Mirka, my only hesitancy is holding down the switch. But now I'm not sure...Super excited about these weekly videos.
The grip on the mirka just slips into your hand and the paddle just nests naturally in your palm. Personally I find the mirka way more comfortable to use than the festool
@@aaronfransz1058 I might have to give it a chance and spend some time with a Mirka. I mean all the positive things I have heard about can’t be wrong. Have you tried to hold down the paddle with a rubber band or anything? Might be a silly solution but just thinking out loud.
Picked up Festool sanders 125 Rotex RO & ETS EC 125/3 plus a CT 36 dust extractor after watching your video (Newer Shop). I'm not a Festool fan , but your video made a lot of sense. Also think that it is easier to find supplies, as they are everywhere ( Time is Money). And all priced the same as far as I can tell. I should point out that I've been in production wood working for 30 plus years. So have use quite a lot of different sanders. From Festool to Dynabrade.
Just a FYI. The small holes in the pads actually push air out. What this does is move the dust from the centre of the pad to the outside where the vacuum holes are making your dust extraction more efficient
Yup, but that doesn't change the fact that it works just as well with a single hole at the center. I get it, it's technically better. But I see nearly 100% dust collection with a standard 8-hole pattern. The new hole patterns just seem like gilding the lily and it's pushing us further down the route of proprietary paper.
@@woodwhisperer That all might be fine for wood. But not for resin or composite based ((polyester/epoxy, and fillers with glass tot cotton, paint, primer etc) material where heat build up is fast, softens the material and ruins your work in a second second, etc. The many holes pushing and sucking air actually cools the surface and abrasive material. It also adds to less dust working vertical which in automotive, marine applications is 85% the case. Festool made a copy of the Mirka. And Mirka should copy the rotex machines:) As for buying into a system, with mirka you buy into an abbrasive tech system, which specializes in automotive, marine, aerospace applications with festool into a tool system with it roots in woodworking. For Price, Metabo licenced the Mirka Deros under its own name the SXE 150 for 100 euro's less. But for all sanders best quality abrasive is key, and in the end cost more than the machine, and 90% of the users use their abrasives way too long on their machines.
I've personally used both sanders for years in my work. Both are excellent BUT have to say that mirkas have had bearing and cord issues in the past. But those problems have come after heavy use and hundreds of hours of usage. Cord is easy to change... My perception of vibration is that festool has slightly less of it. Those millions of holes actually have a purpose. Most of them is just for sucking dust more effeciently but some of them are actually blowing air OUT of the machine. It improves the dust collection and cools the discs, thus improving the life of sanding discs. Outgoing air also prevents the dust stucking in the wood. Personally I own a festool sander just because i can use same dusthose and power cord with other festool machines. But i like the mirkas paddle more. When you learn to use the paddle you can control the sanding process so much more.
Hi Marc - really appreciate the comparison and your experiences / impressions of both. The knot skipping is a big deal to me; therefore I'll hang on to the Festool sanders.
One thing that may not have been mentioned in the comments is that the 6” Mirka can be converted to a 5” sander with their weighted pad. Kind of a cool feature. I do like that you can use the Festool sander with oil finishes. Mirka told me that they didn’t recommend that with the Deros.
When I helped out a friend who is a pro cabinetmaker I worked with the Mirka that has a separate transformer thing & that was an okay experience, mostly because it was very light and you can use it for hours without much pain. But the Deros is awful. I am a 100% Festool user when it comes to sanding (and a lot of other uses!), and as a lot of fellow Festool users will tell you the ideal configuration of sanders is (and this order is important!): DTS400, RO 140, ETS EC 125 (with 150 pad). Feel free to swap the square RST with the delta DTS, go for battery or not (I do not see the case for a cordless when you are going to use extraction). OTH The Mirka dust extractors are pretty good (I own one, besides a Festool Midi), but those are rebranded OEMs, eg mine is identical to the Nilfisk 33 - and they are also sold as Makita and other brands.
We got the Mirka 2 years ago for our custom shop and I love it. I actually like the paddle switch and use the variable speed quite often. I haven't used the Festool but would be interested to try it. I agree with the cons of it not slowing down fast enough and the paper being annoying to switch between. The light weight and low center of gravity definitely are nice when using it on a daily basis.
Fun just watched this video. When mirka came out with Deros. So I was at a dealer who sells festool and mirka. Stood and talked to a representative from mirka. I tested Deros with the abranet and I notice that mirja vibrate more than festools that I just tried. We came to the conclusion that it was due to the pad saver. I picked up a festool and put the pad saver and abranet on the festool. It vibrated less. Mirka's representative also felt the difference (he reluctantly admitted). He showed me that on Dero's counterweight there are three screw holes where you can put in a small screw. In this copy there were two screws. So it is possible that you can work with these screws. When we put on only the abranet, there was no difference between the machines I think that none of the machines are good when you sand horizontal things a flat surface. As both machines are heavy at the back. And you have to compensate it with the hand as a result of me getting tired on the bak of the hand. I prefer Festool ETS. Sold my ETS ec for that reason. By the way i liked the end of the video😊
Great review, I love the approach you took here. There is one additional factor that I would consider. I have a bunch of Festool stuff, but I do personally prefer the Mirka when sanding curved objects due to the lower center of gravity and ease of "flicking it around". I do agree, I think the extra weight of the Festool helps on large flat workflows.
I appreciate your expertise and candor about the expense. I watched another vid by another UA-cam woodworker and I thought his responses to questions about his purchase of (or endorsement from his free Mirka) was a bit arrogant “you want good tools you just pay for them”. I think it was because of him I sprung for the Festool which I absolutely love. It is damn expensive given you have to buy the vac too but it was woodwork-life altering. Thanks …as always… for your perspective.
I liked the video and the description. For me, I prefer mirka for sanding. They are the authority and expert on sanding. Festool has more tools, but that has nothing to do with sanding. I have a festool vacuum and I like my fein vacuum much more and my fein has not broken in 20 years. My festool has to be completely rebuilt after 40 hours of use. I had no vaccum for the two week turn around. Most festool tools are not impressive. My 2¢
The Mirka is meant to be best used with Abranet sheets and that is why the machine has more holes than a normal pad and it makes a massive difference. The paddle design is traditional especially when most sanders used in industry and manufacturing and repairs are actually air driven machines and this is based on that.
The ETS 150 has the same number of holes as the Deros 650. They both work off of the same vacuum/dust principle. Same goes for the ETS 125 and the smaller 5" Deros.
I love the way you approached this video. I was recently shopping for sanders that are on the next level and I got to try Mirka and Festool. I recently purchased my first Festool. the 125 ETS. I had a DeWalt that started to go on the fritz. I was looking at things like cost and other factors. the Dewalt was $99 for a new one but I plan on sanding a lot. to be fair I was in the "F" Festool camp, but I noticed so many people were using it and it seemed the difference as to weather or not they had it was weather or not they had Festool money. I decided to try it. The warranty caught my attention as well. after purchasing and using the Festool I was very upset...Upset that I didn't buy one sooner. I am now a Festool Junkie. if their entry level tool is built this well I have no fear paying for their stuff. I love the fact that it doesn't kick up as much dust as my DeWalt, it doesn't jump, the pad stops much faster, the pad drive is better for giving an amazing finish. I'm not saying the DeWalt is a bad sander by any means, just that it is in a different league as the Festool is on a whole different level. just sadly your budget needs to step into that world as well. my two cents is that the DeWalt is fine for occasional users or people just starting that are on a budget. However, if you're ready to get serious or have the work flow to allow it then it is Festool all the way.
I appreciate your efforts to remove your bias from the comparison. It is difficult to remove your years-of-use preferences (just look at the Apple vs Android debates). You did a good job being fair in your comparison. I got on the Festool bandwagon years ago when they offered the only tracksaw I found. I have stuck with Festool because they were available at my local woodworking stores.
I think choosing to invest in a high end sander is a huge point of contention for many al-home/hobbyist woodworkers. There are a lot of pros to justify it, but then you look at the best sanders from Makita/Dewalt/Milwaukee and they don't even come close to the cost of these brands, and realistically they pretty much do the same thing (slightly poorer and slower). Its not like choosing to buy a specialty tool like a track saw or domino cutter where there are no cheep alternatives that perform comparably. I think this is one of those things I would only invest in if I find the right deal on craigslist/offer up. Thanks for the great insight!!!
As with all tools, upgrade the tool you use or impact the end result the most when on a budget. If you don't sand hours at a time a heavier, taller sander will do fine. Although it must be said, if you are a weekend warrior, you probably don't want to spend half the day sanding, so invest in a powerful one. But it doesn't have to be a flagship sander like this, I used the heavy Makita BO6030J for years and it is plenty powerful and comfortable to use for longer stretches. It is just heavy and tall, so you want to use it for horizontal surfaces as much as possible. But it is virtually indestructible and never breaks a sweat.
My selling point was weight and dust extraction having used others before. Was my first festool product and I got it for overhead and wall use because the Sanders I had from Bosch were too heavy for extended use. And dust collection was lacking.
Thanks for a very informative review. I've watched a few reviews of the Festool sanders and was also interested in the Mirka. I'm just an occasional user who appreciates quality tools and I found your commentary to be particulary helpful.
Good comparison - the 2 things that would get me are the free spinning when I’m done and the holding pattern. When sanding a table top I do the same and switch hand holds often. That paddle is a killer to me - plus I like the ETS125 for finish sanding
I use Mirka sanding discs at work. They have their motto printed on the box, made me chuckle the first time I saw it, considering they're based on Finland. "Dedicated to the finish" We use 3M air sanders, though, not festool or mirka.
I have neither of these but hope to get one some day. The Mirka is so hyped up but this may have swayed me towards Festool. I don't own any Festool tools yet but the dust extractor and sander would be amazing. I also really wish my Makita track saw had the riving knife like the Festool so maybe an upgrade is in my (distant) future
Although not a “scientific review”, your review was very practical. I liked the lesser weight & lower center of gravity of the Minka sander. However, your comments about difficulties with holding the Minka paddle so that it would keep sanding and how that limited the ways to hold the Minka sander and change hand positioning was very helpful to me. And I’m sure others woodworkers with carpel tunnel syndrome found that comment to be good information.
@@chrisreese9133 I've had for about 6 months so far and have put it to good use. I've read and watched some reviews stating that about longevity and decided to gamble...so far I'm not disappointed. I have not used the festool so I don't know how it compares.
@@chrisreese9133 I have one for 4 years, no problem at all. I just buy the delta model few months ago, such a great tools. What a like about mirka are they build sanders and nothing else.
Hello, Thank you for this, in my opinion fair, comparision of both sanders, very professional - despite it is already 2 years old. I bought the Mirka as my first sander, means I have not used before orbital sanders. I am using it a lot and in general it work fine, especial the dust collection. The special power cord is a point, where I see room for improvement. Either using a standard plugable power cord or make it slimmer. Yes, as you mentioned, both are proprietary. If someone using primarily Festool, then the Mirka power coard is an obsticale. Especial if you are on a job site, you always have to remember to take this special power cord with you otherwise no sanding is possible. This annoys me, together with the paddle during the media change. In the meantime I had the opportunity to use several different Festool sanders these are fine too and another bonus in favour for Festool are the easy access to spare and accessory parts - at least for me here in Switzerland. Mirka is here not common and so are the spare parts. Kind Regards, Andreas
Thank you for the very interesting information. I had Mirek's sander for about 4 years. I used it more occasionally than every day, unfortunately the housing inside was worn out, which caused a short circuit and the main board exploded. I had to go back to my 17 year old Festool Rotex. I think after watching this video I will buy Festool. I completely agree with your opinion about Mirka and regret that I spent money on it earlier.
I prefer when Festool owners boast about Mirka and sell their used Festool haha. But legit, that’s how I got my CT 48, then a week later my Rotex 125 both used. Both previous owners needed the cash to buy a Mirka.
I just got the MaxXT sander - a copy of these pro grade orbital sanders. I'm glad I did. It's disappointing that a product is inferior on at least two parameters, when it is more than twice the price. MaxXT has speed control in the full length of travel of the paddle. Also it stops immediately when you release the paddle.
I looked at the Mirka a few months back. What is alarming is the number of reviews in which the sander lasted a few months and then died. It's a HUGE number of people that have had their Mirka's die well within a year of normal use. That is just inexcusable for a $650 sander.
i think you do a great job of being honest when it comes to products. Whatever you say in the woodworking world, we can pretty much take to the bank. That is why your channel is one of the best and we love your video's. I own a ETSC 125 and Rotex 125 and love them both. And dang they are $$$.
I live in the land of Mirka. Mirka sandpaper are made 15 minutes drive from my house. And... I don't use Mirka... I have used bout Festool and Mirka and i did sell my Mirka sander. I hated the pedal and I use other Festool tools so the plug is so convenient. (Really funny how you pronounce Mirka 😄) Great video Marc
Based on my experience, the most recent mirka deros is significantly lighter, vibrates substantially less than festool's ets ec 125/3, and has improved their electric break system to be on par with festool. Mirka's sander can also reach much lower speeds than festool's, which is important when you're doing lots of finish sanding. Mirka's is also much quieter than festool's, which is important to me. I bought a festool really hoping that it would be just as good or better than mirka, but mirka just outperforms festool in too many important areas.
I like and use both but started years ago with a 5" Mirka and miss the paddle when using the Festool. For horizontal work I use the Festool and for sculpture and vertical work I use the Mirka because of the lighter weight and smaller pad. After your excellent review, I will delay replacing my elderly Mirkia Ceros until I can play with a Deros at a show. Many thanks!
Interesting review and comparisson. Guess the choice between Mirka and Festool is almost like a religious question. Using a Deros 5650 CV for a while and am super happy with it. When comparing prices in Germany the Mirka sold for approx 440€ whereas Festool is sold for approx 560€ and consequently more than 100€ more expensive. To me, the biggest difference occurs when using Abranet or Festool Granat net. For both the dust collection is amazing. It enables almost dust-free sanding. However, my impression is that Granat net tends to wear off a little better and that Abranet has a slightly better performance. Really curious to try Klingspor next and see how it compares.
Do not undersell the fact that the Festool stops almost immediately! That is a MASSIVE help! I turn it off and set it down. No waiting. I'll say it...game changer.
There was a lot of opinion about the usability of the tool, but little comparison of the finish quality between them. Visible scratches left after sanding that needed to be hand sanded out. I owned the ETS EC 150/3, and couldn’t get rid of the pigtails all over my work pieces. They were especially noticeable after applying stain, which meant I had to sand all the stain off and restart. I read all the forums, changed the pad density, changed the speed of rotation, the suction of the vacuum. It got better but still wasn’t acceptable. I switched to mirka and used the abranet abrasives and all that changed. I did grow up using a pneumatic sander in my dad’s cabinet shop, so the paddle system wasn’t hard to get used to. I appreciate your opinion, I was hoping to see a performance quality comparison that’s all.
This was very helpful. I’ve seen a lot of hype from others on UA-cam on how fantastic the Mika sanders are and I’ve wondered if they were worth the extra money. From what I gathered from your comparison is that I’m just fine sticking with Festool if I want to add another sander in the future. Thanks.
@@JoeC92 while I agree but it’s difficult sometimes to cut through the influencers who have been influenced by gifts and/or money. That’s why hearing Marc’s thoughts on the subject is so helpful. BTW - Since I’ve had a Festool sander for close to 20 years I can vouch for how well they hold up. The only issue I’ve had with both of my sanders is that the foam pads degrade over time and must be replaced.
Great comparison, Marc~! I've been using my Porter Cable 333 for years and have been thinking about going upscale in this department. I not had any interest in entering the realm of Festool ($$$), but after a very good demo at a Woodcraft store, my interest has really been piqued. I've asked questions to several UA-camrs that use Mirkas, but have never gotten any responses nor do they have any videos discussing their experiences with them, so your video is much appreciated. I've been following you since the beginning and have come to greatly value your advice & opinions. Thanks so much~!
It's amazing how some reviews will gush over the Mirka when they get em for free or half a dozen to fill out their shop or school. I don't have either yet, and was leaning festool, but was Mirka Curious. But the added cost, paddle, and jumping kills it for me. A sander has to be damn near perfect for me to drop $500+ on it. I went Bosch for now and they were half the cost...so far so good for now. Thanks for the review and giving it a proper amount of time first... probably the only one that did.
Agree. My Bosch may have a bit more vibration but works well and has excellent dust collection (with Fein vac - also cheaper than Festool) for a fraction of the cost. That said I love the Domino and the precision of the Kapex is unbeatable. I'm basically brand agnostic.
@@waynerudiger1756 Чуть большую вибрацию)). Я чуть без руки не остался с этой вибрацией. Бере6ите руки и не пользуйтесь плохим инструментом. Про эффект белого пальца не слышали? От чрезмерной вибрации очень большой вред здоровью.
Do you guys with Bosch sanders (with rotary and random orbital modes) find them to be noisy? Mine seems oddly noisy and specifically clanky to me (in ro mode). Not sure if it’s just the drivetrain since my other sanders are straight RO sanders with no rotary mode, but by comparison they’re much quieter and smoother than my Bosch… hence, my watching videos while planning to buy something different. My Bosch is also my only 6” sander so maybe that’s part of the reason it’s noisier.
Thank you for a good honest, down to earth comparison between these two premium sanders. I am in the market for a premium sander and having used other Festool tools, I lean towards that brand as here in the UK the service, warranty and spares availability is about the best there is. I thought I would give the flappy paddle sander a go, but like yourself and others, found that it caused my hand to cramp up and I was never really comfortable using this type of sander, horses for courses I guess!
Regarding sanding disks. The best i've used are the 3M blue hookit sanding disks. They last far longer than any of the festool branded stuff and are cheaper.
There's actually a nice research on this which confirms what you're saying: cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0091/2169/3747/files/Sanding_Review_Complete_PDF.pdf?v=1590608214 That being said, I'm not familiar with the source (Taylor Toolworks) so you be the judge of its legitimacy.
Great video. Thanks for being so objective in your review. I’m not going to spend that much on a sander but I’m building a my collection of wood working tools, as a novice and I’m one that doesn’t like to buy twice so I buy tools that I will be happy with and keep for a very long time. I’m not convinced that I need a sander that cost this much but maybe my opinion will change. Thanks again.
Actually been considering these two and weighing the options. As always, great video. Thanks a lot for helping. I hate to start drinking the green kool-aid, but now if only I could find one in stock someplace. - Chris
This review was just in time. I already have a Festool RO 150, but was looking for a lighter sander. Since I'm already in Festool, I'll likely lean that way. Since the RO 150 already has a Random Orbital in 5mm, would it be wise to get the 3mm on the ETS EC 150 or just stick with the 5mm?
I also have the Rotex 150 and I think for me the ETS EC150/3 makes sense. The Rotex already has the larger stroke and is for material removal. I consider the ETS EC150/3 only a finish sander and don't care about removal.
I have had the Festool for 6 years and zero problems. I tried the mirka a week ago and I liked that it is lighter but felt more vibrations and didn’t enjoy the paddle trigger. I kept putting the sander down on my extractor, on its back, and it would then start up again. I liked the Mirka but would still chose Festool. Festool also have the theft guarantee as well as the wear and tear warranty. I’ve had to use the Festool warranty with my RTS and extractor and it’s been a great service.
Really appreciate the review. I was in market for a “luxury” sander and couldn’t decide which one. I am well down the road with the Festool line so Festool sander it is! Thanks Mark.
I much prefer the opinion based reviews over the pseudo scientific ones. Because people forget that for scientific research to be validated, it has to be measurable and repeatable. Most reviews to a great job at trying to "measure" results, but I've yet to see one that even remotely scratches the surface of repeatable.
Exactly. And all reviews, including mine, are hindered by the fact that we only have a single sample. I've seen reviews of tools where the reviewer complains about something that doesn't exist on my version of the same tool. However the reviews are done, they all have to be taken with a grain of salt.
@@woodwhisperer I also own both sanders, and can 100% agree with the assessment. I literally had all the same nitpicks and loves for the Mirka, but it boils down to the fact the Mirka isn't worth another $125. The biggest factor for me is that spin down time on the Mirka. When I first got my ETS, I didn't know how I'd sanded like a Pilgrim for so many years, just sanding there waiting for the sander to spin down before I set it down. So that was definitely a big regression when using the Mirka.
I'd say project farm is as close to repeatable as you could get. With the exception of when he runs stuff over with the Winnebago (that's for entertainment purposes though lol). But yeah like AvE as funny as he is, tearing down a single tool off a factory line and judging it isn't going to exactly give the full story.
I'm guessing the people who say it sands faster either a) did not use the same sandpaper b) just had an implicit bias from the placebo effect and high cost c) had some sort of monetary compensation provided by mirka.
Yeah I'm not sure. All of those are viable reasons. I also think some people may have gone from a 3mm Festool to a 5mm Mirka. That could certainly impact stock removal speed.
Very timely video and awesome to see that Mirka works just as well with the Festool hose (love my CT MIDI w/ Bluetooth hose button). Based on the features and what I think would be comfortable, I find myself leaning towards Festool. Funny enough, in Canada the price difference is negligible and right now there's a Mirka kit with 150 Abranet sanding discs (50x 80/120/180) for $800 CAD, which makes it a good value compared to the Festool ($784 CAD w/ no sandpaper).
Yeah, the Mirka without the extra sanding kit is cheaper than the Festool here. I picked mine up for $650 CAD on a black friday sale a couple years ago.
For anyone that wants a giggle, check out the little promo video we made for this review: ua-cam.com/video/RGuo6TwlzKs/v-deo.html
Yes yes yes!!!
@The Wood Whisperer. Hey man, great video. I think you were informative and unbiased and mentioned a whole slew of things I as a woodworker wouldn’t have thought of or at least would have overlooked. Your execution and wordage was spot on and I am entirely impressed with how you put together this video. Keep up the great work!
I have seen it and loved it.
Little disappointed we can't enter the giveaway from Canada, eh 😁. I can't realistically afford either, would have appreciated the only chance I'd ever own one. Oh well, back out the workshop igloo.
@thewoodwhisperer Thanks for this vid! Tommorows my birthday and was planning on using my Bday cash plus what Ive been saving for the Mirka for long time now, but instead went to the pharmacy to find out my (very ill) wife lost her insurance and We had to use the cash for all her meds. Little sad, but the good news is, now YOU JUST SAVED ME $125!!!! I’LL definitely be saving for the Festool now instead as after watching this feel its a better fit for me. Ill be using it for making guitars/Ukes and other acoustic string instruments primarily. Ive getting by with my old Ryobi on a foot controller, but it has more faults than not and now it intermittently cuts power. Thanks again for your videos and Podcast. My wife and I love listening together and you’ve ( and Shannon n Matt) have even helped us through some rough times with your laughs and the fun y’all have.
~Beaty & Peace~
Kyle ( and Lucy too :) )
I’ve used the festool for several years at the cabinet shop I worked at. A MIRKA rep came by and left his sander with me to try out. As you were listing the likes and dislikes of each, I found myself agreeing with all of your comments. The paddle switch was the deal breaker for me. Changing hand position is absolutely necessary when sanding all day, or even all week as the case may be. One thing I did take away from that experience is Mirkas abranet sanding discs. I found those to be superior to the festool abrasives. At the time I was sanding miles of hard maple hand rail for a large hospital project and was able to purchase matching MIRKA abrasives for my festool and surfprep sanders which worked well. I found those abrasives to leave less swirl marks on the stain-grade wood than any of the other festool abrasives I tried. Excellent video, couldn’t agree more.
That's impressive, actually knowing the tool before offering an opinion. Well done.
First comparison in history where Festool was the cheaper option lol. Im definitely a fan of the Festool sander, and all their products really.
I’m from Canada and the Mirka is cheaper here
Everything from Mafell is more expensive than festool. And where I live the makita tracksaw is 10 dollars more expensive than festool one.
@@joshmcgowan4 new Zealand here mirka $1500
Mirka is about 100 cheaper "real price" here in Germany..
Lithuanian mirka almos 200 e cheaper
Totally agree. I’ve used that Festool for years, but was given a couple re-badged Mirka sanders (don’t want to say the company) and I just couldn’t get past all the things you pointed out. Great video for anyone shopping around.
Metabo
@@W0pper1997 thanks, not sure what top secret info that dude was trying to keep safe by not telling us what clandestine, classified brand uses Merka parts.
Hilti uses a re badged MiRka for the 9” drywall sander
@@alwayson999 some sort of weird cry for attention and specialness. Some people are very strange in not a good way.
Since my bread and butter comes refinish work I went with the Mirka and you nailed it when you mentioned pneumatic sanders. I used them on a professional level for about 27 years. I love the paddle for start stop. The only reason I never bought one later in life is the fact that takes a giant compressor to operate it. So for years after leaving a shop I farted around using the cheaper ROS palm sanders like Dewalt, Makita etc. Those burn out so damn fast and the vibration factor you mentioned is spot on. They are murder on the hands, especially when you have arthritis. So when the Mirka sanders came out, my business partner and I each bought one. Now this dude HATES sanding and our first job was 114 doors to refinish in a nursing home, those sanders did really help, especially with the low profile design. That was about 3 years ago, I finally changed the original pad last year after numerous furniture and construction jobs. Now I am sure the Festool would be just as good but like you mentioned it is a preference and mine is with the ergonomics and the paddle. Now would I kick the Festool out of my (very tiny) shop? Most likely not.
For me personally I prefer the Mirka. Primarily it's all about the lower center of gravity. However I'm also a cabinet finisher and use Mirka pneumatic sanders at work, so I'm used to that lower center of gravity that pneumatics have compared to most electric sanders. Electrics almost always feel top-heavy in my hands. Funnily enough when it comes to the actual paper, having tried maaaany different brands I don't like either festool's or mirka's offerings as much as 3M cubitron. It seems to cut faster, last longer, clog less and even seems to reduce what little vibration these premium sanders do have. Anyways, thanks for the comparison; it's always worthwhile to hear others viewpoints and experiences. Keep up the good work.
That Festool has also a low center of gravity...
He's talking about an even "lower" center of gravity. Please keep up!....lol @@Steinstra-vj7wl
I have a lot of hours using both sanders.
My thoughts 💭
1: I also prefer no paddle as sometimes I like to clamp the sander upside down for small parts, and like mark change my grip.
2: I like that you can buy a hard pad for the Festool. Helps keep corners crisp.
3: the mirka is cheaper in the 🇬🇧 you also can get sets with a range of mesh sanding discs included, extraction hose and a 125mm pad included, still cheaper than the Festool.
4: curveball - you can get a metabo version of the mirka that is identical but no Bluetooth gimmicks and cheaper, especially if you get the version that just comes in a cardboard box 📦
5: worth noting I got very noticeable swirl marks with the 5mm Festool. They seemed to think there was a fault with the machine to do that but I didn’t want to take the chance and swapped for the 3mm stroke that leaves a superb finish
This is by far the best comparison video of these two tools! Thank you very much. I really appreciate the work that you put into the video because it’s very precise and gives good overview about the specs the mechanics the brakes.
I think Mirka is oriented more to the paint shop than to the average woodworker and comes from the world of pneumatic tools, hence the pedal. For the paint shop, it makes sense to have a wide range of different abrasives to deal with different metals, composites and paints. And where even the slightest bit of dust is your enemy, all those holes or even the further development, grids, can be a huge advantage.
I love how you recognize that you are not the typical hobbyist woodworker like most of your followers.
I’ve been painting cars for 15 years. I have the electric and pneumatic Mirka. Never used the festool but these are a great upgrade from a typical DA sander. I do a lot of vertical and horizontal sanding obviously on vehicles everyday. I also use the net disc which I think are only slightly better than the holes I find they creep on the pad only using maybe half a hole. I actually prefer the variable paddle, I liken it to a chainsaw or sawzall, where you can cut quickly or delicately by the amount of push on the trigger. Sandpaper makes the difference, mirka is supreme to 3M and they specialize in that market, only making abrasives but that market consist of different industries from wood, Collision, jewelry work etc. there is more to a sander than just sanding also. Most will only use the orbit motion but it’s also a grinder, spinning the pad up to full speed to specific work I do this all the time because it cuts differently. Maybe this is why you experienced jumping, the mirka spins more than the festool? On horizontal sanding I use my whole hand on top, while horizontal sanding I usually use both hands, one of the rear or grasping the hose and placing my fingers inside the hole and using my thumb on the paddle for ultimate control.
The Festool is a sander that doesn't jerk by switching on or off, and like this tes,t the Festool fibrates even less than the Mirka. For a guitar finisher that is gold, especially when wet sanding the last clear coats as i want the sander NOT to make scratches which a jerking sander will do. I sold the Mirka.
@@Steinstra-vj7wl
I agree the mirka does jump. I use a smaller orbit DA for finishing 3/32 and larger for prep work 3/16. I can see how you don’t like the jump action in your context when your striving for perfection most likely on a high value guitar. The jump is no problem for me and is not even noticed I’m simply looking for a factory car finish that will survive the UV’s from the sun and 80 mph down the highway. My finishing is only for dirt nibs and not glassing out like you are. I nib with 1500, 2000, 3000 then compound and polishing. I think it’s constructive to criticize a tool that cost so much, maybe 2.0 will be better. Cheers
Every single point mentioned in this video was exactly what I hoped he would mention.
You made an excellent job on this one. Thumb up!
Hi Marc - I came to much the same conclusions as yourself when I reviewed these exact same units a couple of years back. It's worth reading the manual of the Mirka DEROS as it would have clarified a number of points raised. Regarding stopping speed, the pad has a number of metal shims on the spindle that are removed as the replaceable rubber dust boot/pad bearing surface wears. These increase the friction between the two and controls stopping speed. Both the dust boot and pads are consumable items. The DEROS has a combination of button presses that change the function of the paddle from variable to on/off, the exact combination of which doesn't occur to me right now. The Festool I received had an incorrect counterbalance fitted; that for the 3,0mm orbit and not 5,0mm which increased vibration in use. The Mirka has optional weight nut/bolts on the counterweight for adding/subtracting weight when one uses an interface or change between the 125/150mm pads. I settled on the DEROS and various sizes of Mirka pneumatics since I use them virtually every day in my professional life (wood, Corian, paint) and also for my personal home project work. I chose the 2,5mm orbit variant, stick entirely to using the 125mm pad and generally use Mirka's Abranet mesh rather than "holes with sandpaper added to keep them together". I rarely use paper on machines these days. I disagree that the Festool integrates with the rest of their ecosystem/walled garden beyond the Festool-specific power cable and systainer. The brand loyalty has longer legs than that integration! Over time I found that the paddle of the DEROS lays under the palm joint of my index finger and is very controllable without excess grip or pressure. Cheers, hope you're safe and well!
Had my Mirka for 4 months now and have to say it’s one of the best power tools I have purchased, it’s a dream to use lightweight simple and removes stock rapidly particularly if you use the Abranet discs. With regards your comments on the paddle switch when changing discs it’s simple turn it off, if you have a short lapse memory on this stay clear of Woodworking tools. If I want to just do a gentle sand just depress the paddle slightly or turn the speed down, but I never do I just apply less pressure. It’s a simple machine to use and after a few hours you get used to how to actually operate it. I can not comment on the festool as I had a Metabo orbital sander for 10 years previous to this never let me down but can not do half the things the Mirka can do just because of weight and low centre of gravity. I find this an extension of my hand and a joy to use, who likes sanding no one but this little machine makes it so much better.
Habits formed over 15-20 years are hard to break over a few hours, or even months. If you're working in a production environment, where you're sanding for hours and jumping between projects it's *very* easy for muscle memory to kick in and place the sander upside down. I'm glad you're enjoying the sander, I enjoy mine too, and someone finding flaws in it that only affect them doesn't take away from that.
Something really important to note is that if you want your Mirka to last more than a couple years. Run it at 1 or 2 clicks down from max on the speed controler. I used to sell both of these and we had A LOT of mirka come through for repair with busted speed controllers.
I've had mine 6 yesterday full speed and all been fine till a couple weeks ago when stopped working. Thankfully have now figured it's the sander cable that's the issue
I have a Handyman / Contractor business in Ontario Canada and I own both units. As you stated Mark the less weight of the Mirka unit makes it a good choice for overhead drywalling sanding. And the Festool sander is just another tool that I use with the Festool system....both do an excellent job.
When I was in cabinetmaking school, we used pneumatic palm sanders. I loved how light and powerful they are.
@@lilbeanie5078 Hutchins has had dust collection for decades and the best quality pneumatic sanders in the industry, in my opinion. If you want pneumatic, take a look at them.
I apprenticed in cabinetmaking long ago, and all I have ever used (until recently), were Dynabrade pneumatic sanders. You can actually play that paddle like a fiddle after using one for years. Electric sanders seem like sanding with a hot brick that takes forever to remove material. 🥴
So excited to see weekly videos from you, Marc!
Yeah boyeee!
Thank you for finally calling out the confusing sandpaper names. I thought I was the only one.
A large shop I work with refuses to buy Festool paper. They use 3M Cubitron and converted me about a year ago. Best disks I've ever used
Less fatigue is certainly important if you sand often and for longer periods of time. I worked for years in shops where we had pneumatic sanders with the paddle switch and I think that's just something you get used to. Any of the less expensive alternates will do just a good a sanding job (several reviews bear this out). I'm on my 5th or 6th orbital sander (I"ve had Milwaukee, Makita, Black and Decker and Bosch). They all were fine, did the job but along the years were lost, stolen, dropped or moved on to my son. Sanding is my least favourite part of woodworking and I use hand planes, scrapers and my thickness sander whenever I can but using the Festool compared to the other orbitals is a nicer experience. If you only use an orbital occasionally or have a restricted budget any of the others sands just as well - a little louder and with more vibration but still does the job.
Very interesting perspective on that paddle, after seeing several other folks raving about the Mirka. Both are more than I want to spend, but still interesting to learn about.
Thanks, Marc.
I have been debating this with as many guy’s I could find that own both, but never got as concise and accurate info as you convey! Thanks for making my decision to get the Festool a much easier one! Great comparison!
Your ability to contrast and compare is unparalleled in the UA-cam WW world. Thank you for this.
Thanks Daniel!
I have used Festool sanders for several years. We use the 5" at the shop where I work. We have recently purchased (6 months ago) 3 of the 5" Mirkas and all 3 have been sent off to be repaired. Still using the Festools that were purchased several years ago. The Mirka does seem to be more aggressive and cut the material down faster, but if it has to be sent off to be repaired, not really worth it. The other thing I have noticed is that the Mirka gets hot compared to the Festool. The Mirka rep has informed us that there is a power converter or some type of component inside that they will replace, so that the sander will not wear out as quickly. Reminds me of when DeWalt switched from one type of tool to residential and commercial, and you had to be careful to buy the right one.
Interesting side by side, and thanks for the insight from the wood side of things. A couple of things you said stood out, predominantly about the pneumatic sanders. It strikes me that the Mirka is aimed at automotive refinishers rather than woodworkers. The slow stop and paddle are benefits when working with metal, as is the variable speed to ensure that you don’t burn paint or warp panels. So from my background (automotive) these are definitely positives over the Festool. (That said at times doing woodwork in a predominantly metal shop has significant disadvantages).
The other thing is the pricing, not sure why it’s so disparate in the US, but in Europe and Australia they are both even pricing, or the Mirka is slightly cheaper. Festool seems to command a larger premium here in Australia too (domino prices are crazy).
Thanks again for the insight though.
I agree with your thoughts as I work in auto collision industry and mirka is a better product because of those things mentioned by you.While the pneumatic DA is still better and cheaper (if you already have a compressor)the mirka deros is a excellent tool if you have no air .I own one and hope it will give me many years of trouble free time.
Yeah, I dont know whats up with Festool prices in Norway, but here its even worse. The Festool is 1100 dollars, but the Mirka is alot cheaper at 690 dollars. Festool you can only buy in shops that is aimed at professionals. So I gues the pros have a lot of discount. I realy like a lot of the Festool products, but with the Norwegian importers prices for «normal» people, its just crazy expencive.
Thank you for this review / comparison of the exact 2 premium sanders that I’m considering upgrading to; particular thanks for your honest caveats! Your video has empowered me to know which sander is right for my needs (& desires); again due, in large part, to the caveats & closing comments you made. Grateful subscriber.
I have both. I thought I was gonna love the Mirka when I upgraded to it, but the paddle is kind of the deal breaker for me. I kept them both but reach for the Festool more because I don't like having to depress the paddle all the time. Spot on review Mark
Thanks Sam. Like i mentioned in the review, if you're used to that paddle it might be something you like. But if you never used one before, I can't see why anyone would prefer it.
I have both but my Mirka is the original Ceros. The Mirka does have the option of variable speed or a fixed speed. , you just need to read the owners manual to find out how. I do not like the Festool , I almost never use it as it seems to rough to me. I also use a Rotex Which I like for some work.
@@duaynenaugle561 The new model also has the two control modes. So The comment of only having 1/4" or paddle movement to control the speed applies to that specific control mode. I have the Ceros (old model) too but considering the new model Deros, I have my Ceros programed for on-off and not variable speed- to adjust the speed, which I do often, I use the + & - buttons.
@@woodwhisperer Thanks for this review.
Couple of things, well three - this model Mirka also takes a 5" pad, no? Mirka also do a 8mm throw random orbit in Europe (maybe not available there?) . Lastly my experience of both sanders over a few years, is the Festool is the better engineered of the two, and the Mirka is the more ergonomic.
For anyone out there deciding on the Mirka, it doesn't do well driving it at full speed for long periods of time, and even less so if leaning into the work (this will not do the duty of a Rotex like geared sander) - also the warranty (at least here in UK) does not cover the speed control or the power lead failing.
All in all, if I had to choose between the two I'd second your conclusion. Saying that it's great to have the Mirka as well, particularly for overhead work.
@@blbradford1957 on the ceros. If you depress both buttons at the same time , you have full speed
No matter how hard or soft you press.
Thanks! I'm sold! I have a window and door restoration company, and I am going to finally buy a top grade sander. I will buy the Festol...hands down. Appreciate the video.
This is what I’ve been waiting for. Glad you took the time to really compare these two. I am now leaning festool as I already have a couple tools in my shop.
Well done and thank you. Thank you for being able to post more on you tube as well. I am a partial guild member but I am impressed enough with your format that I will be joining soon
Honest video and insights as always. Keep up the great work and unbiased reviews
I don't know about unbiased, but I can definitely claim honesty. :)
Thanks Marc. Great common sense review. So many outlets just proclaiming Mirka to be the best right now. Hard to know who to listen to and their motivations. This was just what I needed.
By the way. I just really want to say thank you for this review. I genuinely trust your opinion. I have been on the fence. I haven't found reliable reviews from creditable sources regarding Festool vs. Mirka, on UA-cam or in any of the wood working forums. So thank you again.
Marc, the Mirka paddle actually has 2 modes-in one mode it’s just on/off and in the other mode it’s variable speed. I just use mine in on/off mode. Regarding accessories, I got mine with both a 5” and 6” pad. The 5” is great for small work, and it’s super easy to switch pads, Also, mine stops dead within half a second so I’m not sure why yours takes a couple seconds. I got the Mirka because the Festool felt very uncomfortable in my hand, though I love the Festool’s switch. Also as you noted, the Mirka has a lower center of gravity. Great review covering so many aspects!
Mine also stops with in 2 seconds.
Thanks for you honest review, Marc. We went from Ridgid, to DeWalt, to Mirka. Brittany does 99% of the sanding, so her whole decision process was based on feel. She has small hands and the Mirka just fit her hand better. I’ve been looking forward to this since we never used the Festool.
Yeah I can definitely see hand size playing a role in the buying decision.
She won't be disappointed with that purchase
@@punkrockdave1000 hasn’t been yet! 6 months in and she still loves it!
Like you, I have both. I paid for both as well. I agree with 100% of everything you said in this video. Would like to add a few more comments for those sitting on the edge of the fence.
Both products are expensive. Both products will break down and need to be serviced from time to time so one thing to consider is turn around time and warranty issues. Mirka made 2 big mistakes in the design of their sanders. First, the peddle is 100% useless and is only on the tool to make it look like an air sander. It actually causes more hand fatigue is very distracting while working because the sander goes on and off all the time when one has to adjust their hand. Mirka sand paper is hard to find where I live as well. As said in the video, they do make sand paper types, names and uses way to complex. Mirka also has a major problem with their control switches. They short out. I went through 3 sanders with very little use. All had the same issue. Warranty was honored and the customer service was good. I rarely use my Mirka's today for this one problem. I am afraid I will have to go through the return process again which has cost me too much money from lost production time without a working tool and waiting for the problem to be resolved. If Mirka does not get rid of the useless peddle and fix the computer control issues, it is my opinion that they will not be around in the woodworking business too much longer.
Festool has problems too. First, their customer service sucks and is actually some of the worst customer service I have ever experienced in business. Second, Festool refuses to acknowledge they have a major problem with their sanding pads. The foam in the pads crumble forcing me to buy new pads all the time. They are not cheap and will fall apart in the package they come in as well. They need to address this problem once and for all. Festool also has a problem with the plastics they make their sustainers with. They fall apart when exposed to U.V rays. I own a lot of Festools' and this is a consistent problem. The Festool Hepa Vac's also have major problem Festool refuses to address. After my 3rd motor housing cracked, I no longer use Festool Hepa Vac's.
Just my thoughts and sticking up for people like me who spend hard earned money on tools that are indented to make our projects easier, less costly in labor, and and end result second to none.
Ender User/Painting contractor/Fine woodworking
Honestly I don’t see myself ever buying either of these two but I absolutely loved this video and did watch it till the very end. Somehow made me appreciate my crappy Rigid 6” sander more but no idea why!
Probably because you don’t see the $400 extra value in either of these sanders. And that’s not a dig on you, it just means that you wouldn’t fully need the extra value possibly in the amount of time you use your sander or type of work you do. I actually agree at this point in my woodworking as well, I def don’t need a $525 sander let alone a $650 one.
iit just shows you this is such an unbiased comparison compared to other channels that were clearly getting paid to favour one off the sanders. great to see honesty. one thing i think you forgot to say mirke do a 125mm sanding pad festool dont
Yup. Just don’t think that’s a big deal. Something I also forgot to mention is that Festool offers pads in different densities, a far more useful option in my opinion. So we’ll call that a tie. 😂
Thank you, Marc! This was such an informative overview of the two sanders. I do love my Festool, but next time I might have to try out the Mirka, my only hesitancy is holding down the switch. But now I'm not sure...Super excited about these weekly videos.
The grip on the mirka just slips into your hand and the paddle just nests naturally in your palm. Personally I find the mirka way more comfortable to use than the festool
@@aaronfransz1058 I might have to give it a chance and spend some time with a Mirka. I mean all the positive things I have heard about can’t be wrong. Have you tried to hold down the paddle with a rubber band or anything? Might be a silly solution but just thinking out loud.
@@TimberBiscuitWoodworks it doesn't need much pressure at all to hold down just holding the sander in your palm with a natural hold is comfortable
@@aaronfransz1058thanks for the info!
Picked up Festool sanders 125 Rotex RO & ETS EC 125/3 plus a CT 36 dust extractor after watching your video (Newer Shop). I'm not a Festool fan , but your video made a lot of sense. Also think that it is easier to find supplies, as they are everywhere ( Time is Money). And all priced the same as far as I can tell. I should point out that I've been in production wood working for 30 plus years. So have use quite a lot of different sanders. From Festool to Dynabrade.
Just a FYI. The small holes in the pads actually push air out. What this does is move the dust from the centre of the pad to the outside where the vacuum holes are making your dust extraction more efficient
Yup, but that doesn't change the fact that it works just as well with a single hole at the center. I get it, it's technically better. But I see nearly 100% dust collection with a standard 8-hole pattern. The new hole patterns just seem like gilding the lily and it's pushing us further down the route of proprietary paper.
@@woodwhisperer That all might be fine for wood. But not for resin or composite based ((polyester/epoxy, and fillers with glass tot cotton, paint, primer etc) material where heat build up is fast, softens the material and ruins your work in a second second, etc. The many holes pushing and sucking air actually cools the surface and abrasive material. It also adds to less dust working vertical which in automotive, marine applications is 85% the case. Festool made a copy of the Mirka. And Mirka should copy the rotex machines:) As for buying into a system, with mirka you buy into an abbrasive tech system, which specializes in automotive, marine, aerospace applications with festool into a tool system with it roots in woodworking. For Price, Metabo licenced the Mirka Deros under its own name the SXE 150 for 100 euro's less. But for all sanders best quality abrasive is key, and in the end cost more than the machine, and 90% of the users use their abrasives way too long on their machines.
I've personally used both sanders for years in my work. Both are excellent BUT have to say that mirkas have had bearing and cord issues in the past. But those problems have come after heavy use and hundreds of hours of usage. Cord is easy to change... My perception of vibration is that festool has slightly less of it.
Those millions of holes actually have a purpose. Most of them is just for sucking dust more effeciently but some of them are actually blowing air OUT of the machine. It improves the dust collection and cools the discs, thus improving the life of sanding discs. Outgoing air also prevents the dust stucking in the wood.
Personally I own a festool sander just because i can use same dusthose and power cord with other festool machines. But i like the mirkas paddle more. When you learn to use the paddle you can control the sanding process so much more.
Oh and nice to see a real comparison/review after real use and not a typical "I unboxed this other thing at it seems blaablaa". Great review!
Hi Marc - really appreciate the comparison and your experiences / impressions of both. The knot skipping is a big deal to me; therefore I'll hang on to the Festool sanders.
Great side by side comparison. I’m glad I came here first. Def leaning towards the festool after this video. Thanks!
One thing that may not have been mentioned in the comments is that the 6” Mirka can be converted to a 5” sander with their weighted pad. Kind of a cool feature. I do like that you can use the Festool sander with oil finishes. Mirka told me that they didn’t recommend that with the Deros.
Hello! Do you know why they didn't recommend using the Deros with oil finishes? .
Im not 100% sure but it may be because the Mirka could have some suction when being used but I’m not totally sure.
When I helped out a friend who is a pro cabinetmaker I worked with the Mirka that has a separate transformer thing & that was an okay experience, mostly because it was very light and you can use it for hours without much pain.
But the Deros is awful. I am a 100% Festool user when it comes to sanding (and a lot of other uses!), and as a lot of fellow Festool users will tell you the ideal configuration of sanders is (and this order is important!): DTS400, RO 140, ETS EC 125 (with 150 pad). Feel free to swap the square RST with the delta DTS, go for battery or not (I do not see the case for a cordless when you are going to use extraction).
OTH The Mirka dust extractors are pretty good (I own one, besides a Festool Midi), but those are rebranded OEMs, eg mine is identical to the Nilfisk 33 - and they are also sold as Makita and other brands.
We got the Mirka 2 years ago for our custom shop and I love it. I actually like the paddle switch and use the variable speed quite often. I haven't used the Festool but would be interested to try it. I agree with the cons of it not slowing down fast enough and the paper being annoying to switch between. The light weight and low center of gravity definitely are nice when using it on a daily basis.
Fun just watched this video. When mirka came out with Deros. So I was at a dealer who sells festool and mirka. Stood and talked to a representative from mirka. I tested Deros with the abranet and I notice that mirja vibrate more than festools that I just tried. We came to the conclusion that it was due to the pad saver. I picked up a festool and put the pad saver and abranet on the festool. It vibrated less. Mirka's representative also felt the difference (he reluctantly admitted). He showed me that on Dero's counterweight there are three screw holes where you can put in a small screw. In this copy there were two screws. So it is possible that you can work with these screws. When we put on only the abranet, there was no difference between the machines
I think that none of the machines are good when you sand horizontal things a flat surface. As both machines are heavy at the back. And you have to compensate it with the hand as a result of me getting tired on the bak of the hand.
I prefer Festool ETS. Sold my ETS ec for that reason.
By the way i liked the end of the video😊
Great review, I love the approach you took here. There is one additional factor that I would consider. I have a bunch of Festool stuff, but I do personally prefer the Mirka when sanding curved objects due to the lower center of gravity and ease of "flicking it around". I do agree, I think the extra weight of the Festool helps on large flat workflows.
I appreciate your expertise and candor about the expense. I watched another vid by another UA-cam woodworker and I thought his responses to questions about his purchase of (or endorsement from his free Mirka) was a bit arrogant “you want good tools you just pay for them”. I think it was because of him I sprung for the Festool which I absolutely love. It is damn expensive given you have to buy the vac too but it was woodwork-life altering. Thanks …as always… for your perspective.
When I was looking for a sander that paddle turned me away also, glad to hear I was right on it being annoying/restrictive!
I liked the video and the description. For me, I prefer mirka for sanding. They are the authority and expert on sanding. Festool has more tools, but that has nothing to do with sanding. I have a festool vacuum and I like my fein vacuum much more and my fein has not broken in 20 years. My festool has to be completely rebuilt after 40 hours of use. I had no vaccum for the two week turn around. Most festool tools are not impressive. My 2¢
The Mirka is meant to be best used with Abranet sheets and that is why the machine has more holes than a normal pad and it makes a massive difference. The paddle design is traditional especially when most sanders used in industry and manufacturing and repairs are actually air driven machines and this is based on that.
@@espressomatic ? The Mirkas been around since the ETS was waiting for a glint in muma festools eye..
The ETS 150 has the same number of holes as the Deros 650. They both work off of the same vacuum/dust principle. Same goes for the ETS 125 and the smaller 5" Deros.
@@mattcable6379Festool has a very long history of innovating and outright inventing things we take for granted today, including the track saw.
I love the way you approached this video. I was recently shopping for sanders that are on the next level and I got to try Mirka and Festool.
I recently purchased my first Festool. the 125 ETS. I had a DeWalt that started to go on the fritz. I was looking at things like cost and other factors. the Dewalt was $99 for a new one but I plan on sanding a lot. to be fair I was in the "F" Festool camp, but I noticed so many people were using it and it seemed the difference as to weather or not they had it was weather or not they had Festool money. I decided to try it. The warranty caught my attention as well. after purchasing and using the Festool I was very upset...Upset that I didn't buy one sooner. I am now a Festool Junkie. if their entry level tool is built this well I have no fear paying for their stuff. I love the fact that it doesn't kick up as much dust as my DeWalt, it doesn't jump, the pad stops much faster, the pad drive is better for giving an amazing finish. I'm not saying the DeWalt is a bad sander by any means, just that it is in a different league as the Festool is on a whole different level. just sadly your budget needs to step into that world as well. my two cents is that the DeWalt is fine for occasional users or people just starting that are on a budget. However, if you're ready to get serious or have the work flow to allow it then it is Festool all the way.
Thank you Marc for finally doing this video.
I appreciate your efforts to remove your bias from the comparison. It is difficult to remove your years-of-use preferences (just look at the Apple vs Android debates). You did a good job being fair in your comparison.
I got on the Festool bandwagon years ago when they offered the only tracksaw I found. I have stuck with Festool because they were available at my local woodworking stores.
I think choosing to invest in a high end sander is a huge point of contention for many al-home/hobbyist woodworkers. There are a lot of pros to justify it, but then you look at the best sanders from Makita/Dewalt/Milwaukee and they don't even come close to the cost of these brands, and realistically they pretty much do the same thing (slightly poorer and slower). Its not like choosing to buy a specialty tool like a track saw or domino cutter where there are no cheep alternatives that perform comparably. I think this is one of those things I would only invest in if I find the right deal on craigslist/offer up. Thanks for the great insight!!!
As with all tools, upgrade the tool you use or impact the end result the most when on a budget. If you don't sand hours at a time a heavier, taller sander will do fine. Although it must be said, if you are a weekend warrior, you probably don't want to spend half the day sanding, so invest in a powerful one.
But it doesn't have to be a flagship sander like this, I used the heavy Makita BO6030J for years and it is plenty powerful and comfortable to use for longer stretches. It is just heavy and tall, so you want to use it for horizontal surfaces as much as possible. But it is virtually indestructible and never breaks a sweat.
My selling point was weight and dust extraction having used others before. Was my first festool product and I got it for overhead and wall use because the Sanders I had from Bosch were too heavy for extended use. And dust collection was lacking.
Thanks for a very informative review. I've watched a few reviews of the Festool sanders and was also interested in the Mirka. I'm just an occasional user who appreciates quality tools and I found your commentary to be particulary helpful.
Good comparison - the 2 things that would get me are the free spinning when I’m done and the holding pattern. When sanding a table top I do the same and switch hand holds often. That paddle is a killer to me - plus I like the ETS125 for finish sanding
I beleive the Festool has a brake which is why it stops quick and doesn’t free spin
The deros comes to an instant stop whilst still on the material surface. It will only free spin when held in the air like this video.
I use Mirka sanding discs at work. They have their motto printed on the box, made me chuckle the first time I saw it, considering they're based on Finland.
"Dedicated to the finish"
We use 3M air sanders, though, not festool or mirka.
Been waiting for this one!
I have neither of these but hope to get one some day. The Mirka is so hyped up but this may have swayed me towards Festool. I don't own any Festool tools yet but the dust extractor and sander would be amazing. I also really wish my Makita track saw had the riving knife like the Festool so maybe an upgrade is in my (distant) future
Although not a “scientific review”, your review was very practical.
I liked the lesser weight & lower center of gravity of the Minka sander. However, your comments about difficulties with holding the Minka paddle so that it would keep sanding and how that limited the ways to hold the Minka sander and change hand positioning was very helpful to me. And I’m sure others woodworkers with carpel tunnel syndrome found that comment to be good information.
I have the Mirka and have no regrets. Personally prefer the paddle style.
How long have you had it? I hear bad reviews about the longevity
@@chrisreese9133 I've had for about 6 months so far and have put it to good use. I've read and watched some reviews stating that about longevity and decided to gamble...so far I'm not disappointed. I have not used the festool so I don't know how it compares.
@@chrisreese9133 I have one for 4 years, no problem at all. I just buy the delta model few months ago, such a great tools. What a like about mirka are they build sanders and nothing else.
Hello,
Thank you for this, in my opinion fair, comparision of both sanders, very professional - despite it is already 2 years old.
I bought the Mirka as my first sander, means I have not used before orbital sanders. I am using it a lot and in general it work fine, especial the dust collection.
The special power cord is a point, where I see room for improvement. Either using a standard plugable power cord or make it slimmer.
Yes, as you mentioned, both are proprietary. If someone using primarily Festool, then the Mirka power coard is an obsticale. Especial if you are on a job site, you always have to remember to take this special power cord with you otherwise no sanding is possible. This annoys me, together with the paddle during the media change.
In the meantime I had the opportunity to use several different Festool sanders these are fine too and another bonus in favour for Festool are the easy access to spare and accessory parts - at least for me here in Switzerland.
Mirka is here not common and so are the spare parts.
Kind Regards,
Andreas
great professional review. I can't afford either one but still fun to watch.
Thank you for the very interesting information.
I had Mirek's sander for about 4 years. I used it more occasionally than every day, unfortunately the housing inside was worn out, which caused a short circuit and the main board exploded. I had to go back to my 17 year old Festool Rotex. I think after watching this video I will buy Festool. I completely agree with your opinion about Mirka and regret that I spent money on it earlier.
I prefer when Festool owners boast about Mirka and sell their used Festool haha. But legit, that’s how I got my CT 48, then a week later my Rotex 125 both used. Both previous owners needed the cash to buy a Mirka.
I just got the MaxXT sander - a copy of these pro grade orbital sanders. I'm glad I did. It's disappointing that a product is inferior on at least two parameters, when it is more than twice the price. MaxXT has speed control in the full length of travel of the paddle. Also it stops immediately when you release the paddle.
I looked at the Mirka a few months back. What is alarming is the number of reviews in which the sander lasted a few months and then died. It's a HUGE number of people that have had their Mirka's die well within a year of normal use. That is just inexcusable for a $650 sander.
Thanks, it’s hard to believe many reviewers, but this convinced me to buy the festool.
i think you do a great job of being honest when it comes to products. Whatever you say in the woodworking world, we can pretty much take to the bank. That is why your channel is one of the best and we love your video's.
I own a ETSC 125 and Rotex 125 and love them both. And dang they are $$$.
I live in the land of Mirka. Mirka sandpaper are made 15 minutes drive from my house. And... I don't use Mirka... I have used bout Festool and Mirka and i did sell my Mirka sander. I hated the pedal and I use other Festool tools so the plug is so convenient. (Really funny how you pronounce Mirka 😄) Great video Marc
Based on my experience, the most recent mirka deros is significantly lighter, vibrates substantially less than festool's ets ec 125/3, and has improved their electric break system to be on par with festool. Mirka's sander can also reach much lower speeds than festool's, which is important when you're doing lots of finish sanding. Mirka's is also much quieter than festool's, which is important to me. I bought a festool really hoping that it would be just as good or better than mirka, but mirka just outperforms festool in too many important areas.
I like and use both but started years ago with a 5" Mirka and miss the paddle when using the Festool. For horizontal work I use the Festool and for sculpture and vertical work I use the Mirka because of the lighter weight and smaller pad. After your excellent review, I will delay replacing my elderly Mirkia Ceros until I can play with a Deros at a show. Many thanks!
Interesting review and comparisson. Guess the choice between Mirka and Festool is almost like a religious question. Using a Deros 5650 CV for a while and am super happy with it. When comparing prices in Germany the Mirka sold for approx 440€ whereas Festool is sold for approx 560€ and consequently more than 100€ more expensive.
To me, the biggest difference occurs when using Abranet or Festool Granat net. For both the dust collection is amazing. It enables almost dust-free sanding. However, my impression is that Granat net tends to wear off a little better and that Abranet has a slightly better performance. Really curious to try Klingspor next and see how it compares.
You are really great, Marc!!! Great video. Thanks for reading my comment to the end.
Do not undersell the fact that the Festool stops almost immediately! That is a MASSIVE help! I turn it off and set it down. No waiting. I'll say it...game changer.
There was a lot of opinion about the usability of the tool, but little comparison of the finish quality between them. Visible scratches left after sanding that needed to be hand sanded out. I owned the ETS EC 150/3, and couldn’t get rid of the pigtails all over my work pieces. They were especially noticeable after applying stain, which meant I had to sand all the stain off and restart. I read all the forums, changed the pad density, changed the speed of rotation, the suction of the vacuum. It got better but still wasn’t acceptable. I switched to mirka and used the abranet abrasives and all that changed. I did grow up using a pneumatic sander in my dad’s cabinet shop, so the paddle system wasn’t hard to get used to. I appreciate your opinion, I was hoping to see a performance quality comparison that’s all.
I saw no real difference. Both sanders gave me a surface without real noticeable swirls.
This was very helpful. I’ve seen a lot of hype from others on UA-cam on how fantastic the Mika sanders are and I’ve wondered if they were worth the extra money. From what I gathered from your comparison is that I’m just fine sticking with Festool if I want to add another sander in the future. Thanks.
Also keep in mind that some of those Mirka sanders were "free gifts." A great sander is even better when it's free. ;)
Festool has better reliability from what I've seen online.
@@woodwhisperer Very true. That’s the main reason I was curious in your thoughts. I know you’d be honest.
@@JoeC92 while I agree but it’s difficult sometimes to cut through the influencers who have been influenced by gifts and/or money. That’s why hearing Marc’s thoughts on the subject is so helpful. BTW - Since I’ve had a Festool sander for close to 20 years I can vouch for how well they hold up. The only issue I’ve had with both of my sanders is that the foam pads degrade over time and must be replaced.
@@wb_finewoodworking 100% agree.
I've noticed it's hard to take a lot of reviews seriously when the people are sponsored by them
Great comparison, Marc~! I've been using my Porter Cable 333 for years and have been thinking about going upscale in this department. I not had any interest in entering the realm of Festool ($$$), but after a very good demo at a Woodcraft store, my interest has really been piqued. I've asked questions to several UA-camrs that use Mirkas, but have never gotten any responses nor do they have any videos discussing their experiences with them, so your video is much appreciated. I've been following you since the beginning and have come to greatly value your advice & opinions.
Thanks so much~!
It's amazing how some reviews will gush over the Mirka when they get em for free or half a dozen to fill out their shop or school. I don't have either yet, and was leaning festool, but was Mirka Curious. But the added cost, paddle, and jumping kills it for me. A sander has to be damn near perfect for me to drop $500+ on it. I went Bosch for now and they were half the cost...so far so good for now. Thanks for the review and giving it a proper amount of time first... probably the only one that did.
I went Bosch as well, just could not justify the the cost.
Agree. My Bosch may have a bit more vibration but works well and has excellent dust collection (with Fein vac - also cheaper than Festool) for a fraction of the cost. That said I love the Domino and the precision of the Kapex is unbeatable. I'm basically brand agnostic.
@@waynerudiger1756 Чуть большую вибрацию)). Я чуть без руки не остался с этой вибрацией. Бере6ите руки и не пользуйтесь плохим инструментом. Про эффект белого пальца не слышали? От чрезмерной вибрации очень большой вред здоровью.
Do you guys with Bosch sanders (with rotary and random orbital modes) find them to be noisy? Mine seems oddly noisy and specifically clanky to me (in ro mode). Not sure if it’s just the drivetrain since my other sanders are straight RO sanders with no rotary mode, but by comparison they’re much quieter and smoother than my Bosch… hence, my watching videos while planning to buy something different. My Bosch is also my only 6” sander so maybe that’s part of the reason it’s noisier.
Thank you for a good honest, down to earth comparison between these two premium sanders. I am in the market for a premium sander and having used other Festool tools, I lean towards that brand as here in the UK the service, warranty and spares availability is about the best there is. I thought I would give the flappy paddle sander a go, but like yourself and others, found that it caused my hand to cramp up and I was never really comfortable using this type of sander, horses for courses I guess!
Regarding sanding disks. The best i've used are the 3M blue hookit sanding disks. They last far longer than any of the festool branded stuff and are cheaper.
There's actually a nice research on this which confirms what you're saying: cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0091/2169/3747/files/Sanding_Review_Complete_PDF.pdf?v=1590608214
That being said, I'm not familiar with the source (Taylor Toolworks) so you be the judge of its legitimacy.
@@vergil.penkov Interesting test thanks for the link
Prefect timing on this video I am looking to replace my older sanders that are at least 20 years old and suck when it comes to dust collection.
Great video. Thanks for being so objective in your review. I’m not going to spend that much on a sander but I’m building a my collection of wood working tools, as a novice and I’m one that doesn’t like to buy twice so I buy tools that I will be happy with and keep for a very long time. I’m not convinced that I need a sander that cost this much but maybe my opinion will change. Thanks again.
Actually been considering these two and weighing the options. As always, great video. Thanks a lot for helping. I hate to start drinking the green kool-aid, but now if only I could find one in stock someplace. - Chris
Really more money than good sense?
Always appreciate your honest opinions!
This review was just in time. I already have a Festool RO 150, but was looking for a lighter sander. Since I'm already in Festool, I'll likely lean that way. Since the RO 150 already has a Random Orbital in 5mm, would it be wise to get the 3mm on the ETS EC 150 or just stick with the 5mm?
I also have the Rotex 150 and I think for me the ETS EC150/3 makes sense. The Rotex already has the larger stroke and is for material removal. I consider the ETS EC150/3 only a finish sander and don't care about removal.
I have had the Festool for 6 years and zero problems. I tried the mirka a week ago and I liked that it is lighter but felt more vibrations and didn’t enjoy the paddle trigger. I kept putting the sander down on my extractor, on its back, and it would then start up again.
I liked the Mirka but would still chose Festool.
Festool also have the theft guarantee as well as the wear and tear warranty. I’ve had to use the Festool warranty with my RTS and extractor and it’s been a great service.
Very interesting, in germany the price difference is the other way around:
Mirka 380€
Festool 530€
Same here in Belgium !
Well done MARK! Great analysis and comparison. I always like watching your videos.
Props to Cremona for getting this Mirka in Marc’s shopping cart.
Really appreciate the review. I was in market for a “luxury” sander and couldn’t decide which one. I am well down the road with the Festool line so Festool sander it is! Thanks Mark.
Angerboners. I learned a new word.
One of my favorites.
Came for the reviews stayed for the vocabulary lesson
Thanks for the comparison. I doubt I will ever own either one, but it's interesting to see how they compare. Good video.
I much prefer the opinion based reviews over the pseudo scientific ones. Because people forget that for scientific research to be validated, it has to be measurable and repeatable. Most reviews to a great job at trying to "measure" results, but I've yet to see one that even remotely scratches the surface of repeatable.
Exactly. And all reviews, including mine, are hindered by the fact that we only have a single sample. I've seen reviews of tools where the reviewer complains about something that doesn't exist on my version of the same tool. However the reviews are done, they all have to be taken with a grain of salt.
Haha. Scratches the surface...
@@woodwhisperer you are a sneaky one👍🏻
@@woodwhisperer I also own both sanders, and can 100% agree with the assessment. I literally had all the same nitpicks and loves for the Mirka, but it boils down to the fact the Mirka isn't worth another $125. The biggest factor for me is that spin down time on the Mirka. When I first got my ETS, I didn't know how I'd sanded like a Pilgrim for so many years, just sanding there waiting for the sander to spin down before I set it down. So that was definitely a big regression when using the Mirka.
I'd say project farm is as close to repeatable as you could get. With the exception of when he runs stuff over with the Winnebago (that's for entertainment purposes though lol). But yeah like AvE as funny as he is, tearing down a single tool off a factory line and judging it isn't going to exactly give the full story.
Really fantastic review! So glad to hear a review from long time use.
I'm guessing the people who say it sands faster either a) did not use the same sandpaper b) just had an implicit bias from the placebo effect and high cost c) had some sort of monetary compensation provided by mirka.
Yeah I'm not sure. All of those are viable reasons. I also think some people may have gone from a 3mm Festool to a 5mm Mirka. That could certainly impact stock removal speed.
@@woodwhisperer ohhh yeah that's a solid possibility as well.
Very timely video and awesome to see that Mirka works just as well with the Festool hose (love my CT MIDI w/ Bluetooth hose button). Based on the features and what I think would be comfortable, I find myself leaning towards Festool. Funny enough, in Canada the price difference is negligible and right now there's a Mirka kit with 150 Abranet sanding discs (50x 80/120/180) for $800 CAD, which makes it a good value compared to the Festool ($784 CAD w/ no sandpaper).
I imagine availability might play a role in a buying decisions these days too. These things are kind of hard to track down right now.
Yeah, the Mirka without the extra sanding kit is cheaper than the Festool here. I picked mine up for $650 CAD on a black friday sale a couple years ago.