This $.07 Upgrade Will Save You Hours
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- Опубліковано 20 лис 2022
- The complete guide to premium vs expensive sandpaper.
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3M 775L - lddy.no/1dszo
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Videos Referenced
Jonathan Katz Moses Video 1: • Which Sandpaper is the...
Jonathan Katz Moses Video 2: • Largest Sandpaper Test...
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3M 775L - lddy.no/1dszo
3M 710W - lddy.no/1dszp
3M 310W - lddy.no/1dszq
Pad Saver - lddy.no/1dszr
so what about carbide sanding discs like those from Duragrit? Seems like they should be superior in most areas. Stumpynubs made a recommendation for them a few years back. I've never had a chance to use them but imagine it could be a game changer as far as material removal is concerned. Not sure why we're still using crap glued to paper or even mesh when we have literal discs of rough metal now.
Rough topic. Smooth delivery.
Yes, a gritty performance
Eyyy
Hahahaha
Quick comment. Amazing work
You win
As a professional woodworker and carpenter, I've used just about every type and style of sandpaper out there. As soon as 3m released the 710W I spent close to $800 in sandpaper acquiring every grit I needed. This was after using my very first sample disc.
The 710W is hands down the finest disc out there, and most definitely the most cost effective sanding solution.
For those of you on a tight budget, I highly recommend you save the pennies and get the 710W. Over time, you will put more cash in your pocket.
Cheap sandpaper is just that. Cheap.
Remember... The sander is the MACHINE. The PAPER is the TOOL. Quality tools ALWAYS have a better experience, work faster, and cost LESS over time.
Couldn't have said it any better myself. The 710 really is an incredible product
Try Norton's Blaze line....what do you have to lose?
In the future when talking about multiple products with names like 775L and 710W it would be a big help to have an image of the product when mentioning it. During the ranking of surface quality portion I had a hell of a time keeping track of which name matched which disc.
At the end of the day I’m more concerned with finish than cost of material removed. What motivated me to use the 710w was the lack of noticeable scratches left behind. Like you have noted on previous videos is that a persons time is important. For me it is far more important than a bit of money, to have to go back & re-sand by hand after finding swirl marks or scratches negates any price difference. Thanks for the video, as usual great job!!
It was the 310W that had no visible scratches.
Yep, but after trying several types & brands of sanding mediums I settled on the 710w for the reasons I wrote above. Most consistent results.
YES. The 710 is love. Once you try it, it's so much better by light years compared to something like Gator or festool or even mirka. I think tool brands should not mess with sandpaper. 3m has it on lock!
So what grit are you people sanding to on your sanders to avoid swirls? I'm guessing at LEAST 220?
Might suggest that you actually might save time by sanding to a lower grit and then hand sanding, rather than going to a high grit to avoid hand sanding.
I think tool people trying to get in the sandpaper business is partially what probably helped drive such innovations....@@thenext9537
Great info! My time sanding is the most important factor to me behind a good finish. I originally bought a planer just so I could start with a more uniform, smoother surface on rough boards and cut down on sanding time. I was willing to spend $600 to not sand for hours. Added benefit of making them all the same thickness
You have just jumped into rarefied air, my friend. I place you in the same category as James Hamilton (Stumpy Nubs) and Jonathon Katz-Moses when it comes to the explanation of woodworking science. Well done.
Yay Stumpy, Boo JKM. He's a pompous douche nozzle
@@CP-mb7ly I hear you loud and clear C P. Consequently, I’ve learned to focus on content, not the presenter.
@@gbear056 That's unfortunate. I prefer not to support content creators that degrade their viewers, just my preference.
@@CP-mb7ly thanks C P. It’s food for thought. I may have to rethink my views. There are certainly a multitude of other creators out there!
@@gbear056 there's definitely a fair amount that don't take out their frustrations on their viewers in the comments :-) cheers!
I just want to say that I appreciate you including Gator brand. I'm on a pretty tight budget (almost all of my big tools were gifts, sometimes I have trouble being able to just get some wood to work with) so Gator is what I always go with since it's cheap and readily available. I knew it sucked but didn't know how much!
@@MKRM27 he's not sponsored by 3m dingus, and the gator brand ends up costing more in the long run...
@@idhatemet00 I'm not sure why you are calling CeeJay a dingus. In the comment you are replying to they don't claim that the video is sponsored, and they say that Gator is crap, and were glad to discover it more expensive in the long run. Or the original comment has been edited, or I am missing something, or you owe someone an apology.
@@jeremybirmingham2316 that's because i wasn't replying to ceejay, the person i responded to deleted their comment apparently lol
I really enjoy your no BS approach to You Tube. Thanks.
Thanks for the great info once again. Always my man to watch when I actually want a genuine review or someone to break down what I need when I am not sure what I need.
I've been wondering about these higher end disc's for a while. Great video and really informative!
I love this video. I work in a cabinet shop sanding a lot of poplar lumber and birch plywood and I have questions about the intricacies of it, even though we use vibrate sanders, but no one else really thinks about it enough to teach me cause they just want it to be over haha
Thanks for sharing. Great info! I've been using 3M 710 for the last year or so and am extremely pleased.
I usually purchase more expensive sandpaper because of past experience where it outlasts cheaper stuff, but recently i bought some off Amazon pretty cheap for a small project i was doing with my kid. this sandpaper is surprisingly good and ill be ordering more just to have on hand
I've been a fan of the Diablo sand net due to thier price and being widely available at box stores. They also come with a pad saver.
I am limited to big box stores and have bought their sandpaper because I have thought is was decent and "cheap". After this video, I did a bit of investigatingand realized that these "Premium" discs are actually a fraction of the cost compared to HF, HD, L, etc. $20 for 50 discs for 3M or $6 for 5 discs at HF or HD.
I will only buy "premium" discs now and feel good about it because they are cheaper per unit than the "cheap" ones AND perform a lot better! Thanks for opening my eyes!
I like the little tip about drawing all over the board with a pencil before sanding it. I have a bad habbit of forgetting what does and doesn't need sanded. So thats a good way to know whats been done already and to help me so I dont over sand an area. Just move on once the pencil marks are gone.
use a pencil. The ink from certain ball point pens soaks in too deep
Objectivity, fact based and situational recommendations? Rad. Thanks for this ❤
Another thing to consider: Sandpaper doesn't just stop working when it gets dull. It starts cutting as if it's a higher grit than what's printed on the label. So a low quality disk will leave a "smoother" finish for the same amount of sanding-time than a good disk, just because the good disk is still sharp and cutting true to its grit level.
I don't think so. When your sandpaper becomes dull, it will sand slower, but the grits that are still on the sandpaper are the same sise as when the sandpaper was new.
Your video made me switch from a bulk Menards pack to the 3M sanding pads. I love the performance! Thanks!
Thanks! Over the last few months I've made over 100 cutting boards and seems like I get the best results with the 710 for all the faces, then switch to a 775 disc for doing all of the edges, for all the exact reasons you mentioned. I had not heard of the 310, yet, I will go check it out!
Have made dozens of cutting boards the last few months lately too. You should def try diablo sandnet!
Been watching your content since the start. Excellent. Superior. High value.
I appreciate your effort, man.
I appreciate that!
The 710w is great. On lower grits, I will use something else like 310, but higher grits I'll use the 710. Dust collection obviously needed on the finer grits no doubt.
Very informative. Thank you for spelling this all out for us.
I constantly use soft Swedish pine so this is super helpful and relevant, thanks
Love the humor man. Keep it up! Oh yea the tips and science were helpful too.
Thanks for mentioning we should use the backing with a net disk. Wittworks just did a video on those this past weekend and that was the first time I had ever heard they exist and why I need one. You're the only other UA-camr I watch that's even mentioned their existence or purpose. I just got into woodworking this Spring and bought the "Xtract" net disks after seeing Jonathan Katz Moses's video but never knew I needed a backing. Thankfully I haven't done a whole lot of sanding since I've just been building garage furniture and shelving but I'm definitely buying a backing for next year.
I go bareback on my sander and live dangerously. But yes- interface pads are importanter
Thank you for this video and the testing. The sandpaper options can be kind of overwhelming and it seems to be a subject a lot of people gloss over. I've been using some Amazon variety pack cheap sandpaper without dust extraction. Now I've ordered some 3M products and am excited to see what kind of difference they make.
You wont ever look back
Hmm, interesting. I am mostly a bowl turner. In experimenting some time ago, I found that with the Mirka/woven type of abrasives, in grits up to about 180 or 220, they were much slower than the full cover abrasives. Over 220, there was no difference that I could tell. I don't have the fancy things to be able to exactly measure grams for differences.... One abrasive not here is a blue abrasive, maybe 'Deer' logo, that I get from VinceswondNwonders. I believe there is some ceramic abrasive particles in it. I had Vince make me some discs to fit my 5 inch Festool sander. It is the longest lasting abrasive I have found for sanding bowls, frequently getting several bowls out of one set of discs, rather than maybe one bowl per disc. or some that were just the inside of a bowl with one disc. My favorite saying about 'when to change' discs was some thing like 'use sanding discs like my 2 year old uses toilet paper', or 'like some one else is buying it'. You lose time using dull abrasives. I do keep the rubber eraser sticks handy, and they help extend the life once in a while. The cubitron is only available in 2 and 3 inch discs. The ones I get from Vince are 2 3/8 and 3 3/8, so they lap over the edge of the 'interface' pad, which is what we call the cheap pad that we can waste rather than the main mandrill. Oh, the hooks can leave serious scratches on a finished piece.
You can not remove 80 grit scratches with 220, unless you want to sand for hours. If I start at 80, next is 100, 120, 150, 180, 220, and with my bowls I go to 400. Grits above about 600 to 700 or so are invisible to the human eye. The finer grits are more 'polishing out scratches' rather than sanding and removing stock. Paint grade stuff, 150 max grit. Surface finish, 220. Wipe on finishes, however high you want to go. Not sure where a hand planed surface is in this list...
One turner said, "Never take a finished piece from the shop into the house on a sunny day. Sun light causes scratches." I prefer the natural light type of lamps for seeing scratches. A raking angle does help. Oh, cheap reading glasses from the big box stores are okay, but not good after a while, you need glasses from an optometrist.
Solid video as always sir. Appreciate them, and you. Keep it up!
gritty delivery. Love it
Super interesting video, thank you! I'm still very new to woodworking, so I was using cheap amazon sandpaper, until I saw Katz-Moses' video and switched to the 710W and I really love it, the difference is so much more than I thought it would be! It's probably the thing that's made me rethink my instinctive cheap-stakes-ness the most! It looks like the 310W is a little harder to get my hands on in the UK but I'll give it a try if I can find some.
Might be beneficial to replace only some grits. For example, if you care more about just removing material (lots of rounded edges or gradual shapes in projects, for example), get fancy coarse disks. If you are more into fine finishes, invest into finer grits and use cheaper coarse ones.
If you are working with sap-y woods, working it with a scraper first can help to keep disks from clogging. Certainly helps with autobody fillers since they tend to get a gummy layer on top as they cure.
Great video and appreciated the informative comparison and summary of the 'model #'s' of the various 3M discs with cubitron.
I noticed the 775L would not stick to the hook and loop pad on my Milwaukee sander (brand new pad). Would constantly fly off across the room whenever it had the chance. Never had tyhat problem with any other sandpaper. The 710W doesn't seem to have that problem is shockingly fast at material removal compared to the Klingspor discs I had been using. Very happy with the 710
Great video, Jon. I watched it because Suman’s stories told me to! I have always preferred the 710W over the 775L and have yet to try the new 310W.
Maverick abrasives is worthy of mentioning. Orca is good stuff too. Great video, educational, informative!
Very nice. Thank you for the details. Especially who should be using what disc. Good work.
Appreciate the video and insights - always enjoy your content and take on things. Based on your previous videos I know you aren’t trying to do videos on the reg, but I always look forward to them!
Thank you!
Great explanation. Thank you!
Well, another great video. I'm now returning the $50 in gator sandpaper I bought from Lowes yesterday (5 grits, 15 discs per pack at $10 each) and purchasing sets of the 310w and 710w to try both with my projects. $56 dollars shipped for 10 discs of each kind in 5 grits. better sandpaper at a better price? no brainer!
I had never heard the word "mattering" before. I looked it up and it is a real word. That's what I learned from this. Oh, about sandpaper, I sand until it is smooth enough and don't get too hung up on cost. But that's just me.
Nailed it. Congrats.
thanks for the excellent video jon! great info in here!
Super informative. I feel like I went from novice level on sandpaper to craftsman level on sandpaper in under 14 enjoyable minutes, saving myself $ and ages of agony debating with myself on which to use when. Liked and subscribed!
You're oblivious that you just watched a commercial...
Excellent video!
Well done!
I used to hate sanding, the dust, noise, frustration, then I got a Festool sander and dust extractor, and I love sanding now. Turns out that removing the dust at the source makes a better finish, I’ve gone from sanding to the finish room without vacuuming or wiping
I thought I knew the answer to this watching the original JKM video, but you proved me wrong. Great analysis!
Quite a lesson!
Thank you!
In my woodshop class at school i go through the mkst sandpaper by far. But others dont really care about the outcome of their prodjects. After i polyurethane my projects feel so smooth and its because i spend so much time on sanding making sure its near perfect
Yep, I am one of those who uses sandpaper until it's just paper. I go through so much of it, that I keep some for later use ... albeit it might not cut as much, but in the times that I use it the scraps are worth getting every cent out of the paper. Great video, thanks!
Me too. I do mostly hand sanding, and spent years restoring century-old wooden entryways on brownstones in Boston, and there was no way to use power sanders on them, except on some small areas that were flat. For hand sanding, I found Norton Pro-Sand sheets to work the best for me. And I save the small scraps, too.
@@grizzlygrizzle I should have lead with that, that I do mostly hand sanding. I'll rough down some wood with a palm sander, but after that it is all by hand ....
Just ordered some of those 3m discs. Sounded good to me.
Thanks for making this video. You are the first person to ever explain sand paper in lay terms without a biased opinion. As a professional painter, I use thousands of dollars of sandpaper a year for finish work and abatement. I have to be honest, I did not even know 3M was a major competitor in quality and price. Until now, every time I change paper, it feels like I am throwing a dollar away. Many thanks.
Without a biased opinion? It's basically a 3M ad.
@@yabbieo8466 Yep, and with the links to buy.
I just finished binge watching all of the videos in your channel, and yours is one of my favorite channels on UA-cam. You are informative, entertaining and I love your sense of humor. Your research and information on sandpapers will save me a lot in an upcoming project. Thank you for you wonderful content. May the Force be with you. Stay well! ❤️🤗👍🏼
As a woodturner, mesh discs are great because you can tear them into teeny tiny strips for getting into all those nooks & crannies.
3m stuff is all fantastic I love their stuff
Jesus that's a comprehensive video! Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks brother!
You got it!
I do a lot of hand sanding while wood turning and have tried the 3M disks for that. They seem to remove material extremely well but also dull quickly in that application.
Lots of good info here, thanks. I sand way too often w/out a vacuum. I have a crappy shop vac because I'm too cheap to buy a better on... Need to get shopping.
I used Mirka for years in auto body. A pad saver is a must though a net backed discs still is useful for non vacuum systems as they keep the media cooler thus longer life.
Yep - dont sand without one! The mirka sander is so comfortable
Honestly, the biggest problem I've had with the 710W while connected to dust collection is that the sander literally wants to stick to the work piece because of the suction thru the sanding disc. This happens on either my Bosch GET75-6N or the cordless Bosch GEX18V-5N with the cordless sander being by far "stickier" than the 6" sander. On the 5", I get the same effect with the Diablo mesh discs, too (It's the only other mesh disc I've tried). I suspect the 5" cordless wants to stick more because it's much lighter-weight than the 6". In fact, I tend to skip the dust collector altogether when using the cordless Bosch because it extracts pretty well already, and with the 710W, it's even better.
Excellent video. Thank you
Another great video. I placed my order using your links. Thanks.
Excellent info!
Great video, thank you for sharing your insights and recommendations. I have been a 3m fan for a long time, and I am now going to look at the 310W for my inexpensive grade woods. Cheers!
Great to hear!
This was great to see and supper helpful thanks
Just what I needed!
Wow this is a complete detailed report. This should be the science channel.
I've wondered what kind of sandpaper one should focus on. No one seemed to have any idea on what to buy, how to look for it and how long sandpaper would/should last. Thank you for clarifying it for me. I'm going to see if I can find some of the good stuff for my orbital sander.
Great video! Most woodworkers are miserable finishers… hopefully they see the most important segment of the video… don’t skip grits and clean in between!!
Mind is spinning with all those numbers. What I learned was sandpaper has come a long way. Great video. And amazing research BTW👏
Thank you!
I hate sanding… but the new Diablo SandNet is my new fave. Seems to last 3 to 5 times longer than traditional old-school sandpaper.
The sandpaper revolution in woodworking lately is quite interesting. My father was an auto body repairman and painter by trade and never used anything but 3M sandpaper. I literally have old stock of 3M sandpaper passed down to me that probably outdates most of you watching this video. As a woodworker I've tried serval different types and brands of sandpaper. Honestly all of them get the job done on wood, but recently have decided to go back to the trusty 3M paper. I appreciate the time and effort you have put into your presentations. My first question/concern would be considering the material you're trying to sand. Every species of wood is different unlike sanding other materials such as a painted piece of sheet metal found on an automobile. Why do I bring up this point? I'm not an industry insider but I'm willing to assume that 3M develops its products for the people that use their products the most. The amount of sandpaper used by DIY woodworkers versus the automotive industry is negotiable. The weekend warrior makers can definitely benefit from the premium products that 3M has to offer, if it fits into your budget. But splitting hairs over little fine scratches seems excessive, especially when you can overcome these obstacles with patience. The vast majority of people working in a home garage could probably care less one way or the other as long as it looks acceptable. But I digress. For us woodworkers there are so many possibilities when it comes to fit and finish unlike an automobile that has to be absolutely perfect once the paint is applied. I could be wrong but companies like 3M develop their products to suit the needs of the most demanding sector of the industry. That is where the real laboratory tests exist. There's definitely a place for premium tools and materials in the woodworking shop. I appreciate all the information regarding these topics. It's definitely entertaining to hear about other people's experiences.
Yep, 3Ms cubitron was developed for industrial applications like you said. Automotive and aerospace like you said. Most people assumed it was too aggressive for wood because it wasn't developed for that. If you're doing commission work, I wouldn't sell a tabletop with those scratches for instances. They are def noticeable. At the end of the day we all want to sand less
@@Lincolnstww Then just use the cubitron until the last grid. Saves you time and gives you the finish. TBH, not sure if that will work well, but it could be worth a try.
I really like the idea of not having to align the sanding pad holes.
Thanks for the video and the link to the discounted order. Definitely going to try out those 310s (and the price was great on the 710s as well).
You bet!
thanks for all the information...
I bought all kind of grits( 80-300) of the 710W for a staircase renovation. Here in Europe they can be had for under €0.50 per disc (around €23 per packet of 50 discs) and it holds up better than anything I tested, including abranet, Bosch nets & festool, who are all magnitudes more expensive. If 3M is keeping this up they will own the sandpaper disc market in a matter of years.
Which variety of Abranet did you use? I got the Abranet ACE (ceramic abrasive) and I'm in doubt switching to the 710W. Mostly end grain sanding, some general purpose work.
Please advise :)
@@mlrodenburg1990 Ik denk dat het de gewone Abranets waren, maar ben niet zeker want de doos is intussen al weer een jaartje op. Was ook meer dan prima schuurpapier, niet slechter als 3M imo, gewoon veel duurder. Zeker geen reden om abranets buiten te gooien, de 710W gaat geen merkbaar beter resultaat geven. Ik heb 3m gewoon bij slijpexpert gekocht, maar zie dat het intussen ook al weer wat euro's duurder is. Wel nog steeds rond 55cent per schijf,
This is such a great channel!
Great breakdown.
Appreciate & Enjoyed Ur Video!
Greetings from Australia.
Love your channel and content!
Have subscribed and will watch more of your work.
Regards
One Handed Maker
This video is fantastic!
One interesting test would be about dust extraction. You weigh the board before sanding and after. You weigh the dust collected (in the bin + change of weight of the filter). Dust collected / board weight loss is extraction efficiency.
On its own it probably isn't a useful measure, because it depends on the kit that you are using for dust extraction, but you can certainly compare the different sanding papers that way.
The intuition would be that some backing materials are more porous than others, maybe the size of the dust particles depend on the grit material.
Whatever could help to reduce the airborne dust in the shop would be helpful.
Another hot Saturday night: I’m in the kitchen watching a video about *sand paper*! We’ll done. Thanks for the info.
Very helpful- thank you!
Thanks for this. Found that they sell the 310w here in Japan so will give it a try (will use on Hinoki cypress, quite resinous).
This video keeps showing in my YT recommendations. I like this channel well enough but I'm not in the market for sandpaper at the moment so I've just ignored it. However, each time I see it, it has a different thumbnail. I guess this one finally worked because here I am. Keep up the good work.
Glad I finally got ya!
Very much enjoy your delivery, sense of humor, and more importantly your teaching.... and just for the record "A New Hope" (original of course) was the best (my humble opinion).
Oh no - not a new hope
Im only 3 minutes into the video and holy F you dont overthink anything. Awesome man! So cool.
Good information and great video. Thanks for your work.
Thanks for watching!
oh thanks, I didn't know what I didn't know, now I have no excuse except continue to be stupid or be enlightened. Will work on being enlightened, but hopefully not from the light at the end of a tunnel. After all there may be a train or a bus. Really enjoy your videos.
...I did not know pad savers existed. I have a squishy foam pad on my orbital since I often sand on curvy stuff (guitar things).
Thanks for sharing!
Very helpful video!
this is the one video that convinced me to subscribe to the channel...
and I don't even do wood working
so glad you did this.....
Smooth commercial delivery for Jackery. I was not compelled to skip.
The Wyoming ball cap caught my eye. Nice.
Mirka sander and Abranet discs have been a life changer after 30 years of building furniture
I tried a pack of the 710 and it was ok for quality of results, I just found the dust build up on the pad to be inferior to the Festool paper. Use what you like, so far I’m sticking with Festool.
I am such a woodworking nerd. I watched your entire video and didn't fast forward once (through the usual sanding at least). SOOOO worth it. I have so much crap sandpaper. Gonna check out Taylor now. Hope they have combo packs.
Yay! A UA-cam video that means I stay with my current product instead of buying new!