Rogers and Spencer made in Utica, NY. My hometown for the win. Not a big surprise they are similar to the Remington made in Ilion, NY, just 20 miles away.
What I liked about my R&S was that the handle accepted my whole (average size) hand. Colt and Remington were uncomfortable to hold and shoot because my pinky finger was dangling in the air, the butts were too small. Better grip meant much better accuracy.
Mike. I cannot tell you how much angst you have saved me over the last 7 months as I've gotten heavily into this hobby. After scouring the bushes for months, I finally won a bid on a very nice R&S .44. I hope to see it by the weekend. I remember the hours of frustration early on (before I found your channel) trying to get my 1858 Remington Cylinder back in place. What a long way I have come. I started with a Uberti Navy London and have come to the point where I refurbished an 1860 Colt Army (CVA) that I tried to build back in the late 1980s. The R&S is one I've had my eye on. Thank you for this video. I will not be able to hit the ground running once mine comes in.
This is one of the few original cap and ball revolvers on the market now that is more commonly available than any other model, and most can even be obtained in mint or near-mint condition. I have heard from other shooters that originals are often mistaken as reproductions because of the quality of construction that went into these guns. The last N-SSA shoot I have been to had quite a few Rogers & Spencer revolvers on the firing line. The original factory that built these weapons was located in Red Hook, Brooklyn, right on the same street as the brewery that dispenses Brooklyn Lager now.
Nice video Mike. Glad to see the range you bought is working out so well. Always enjoy your vids my friend. I've always liked the looks of the Rogers and Spencer. Might have to pick one up to go with my Uberti 1858 Remy and my Pietta 1860's.
Great video. Talk about rarity, only 700 S&W Schofields made it to the civilian market before the Army sold off all of theirs. We see them (S&W"s) in a lot of movies now though. Thank-you for the video, Dante.
This is streets ahead of the Remington for people with normal size hands with its longer grip frame, it also has sensible size nipple ports that you can actually get caps on in the cold, unlike the awful tiny Remington ones , well done for bringing this one to my attention!
The video explains better than words a great design flaw in the R&S revolver. The radically flared grips and the very tall hammer spur may look exotic but are terrible for one handed shooting, requiring the gun be completely repositioned in the hand before and after cocking the hammer. I had one many years ago and to make it shootable I modified the grip into a semi-birdshead and cut off the hammer spur and reattached it at a lower position. And I might add, hanging the loading lever off the cylinder base pin is a bad idea. If you load tight fitting balls which require some force on the lever will bend the cylinder pin down. Perhaps that would not occur if the base pin were of better steel and heat treated but it is what it is.
Looks like there is plenty of room to get caps onto it. My main complaint about most c&b revolvers is that I can't get my fat fingers in there to put caps on. Have to use some kind of capper. I don't think I would feel too under gunned if I had one of those.
thanks for confirming my suspicions about the front of cylinder chain fire. I also think that if the ball seals correctly that a front of cylinder chain fire is impossible
Whoever said they seal correctly. That is what you lube it for. Good sense says it shouldn't happen, but it does. Just because it's never happened to you doesn't mean it won't.
@@timothyterrell1658 whoever said? Did you watch the video? There is no way in hell the other cylinders are going to ignite from the front unless you use the wrong size balls and i bet that's where the myth came from. With the correct balls a ring of lead comes off that's how tight they fit there's no way sparks are going to get past that. Plus I'd take this guy's word over yours any day of the week.
@@timothyterrell1658 Even with grease in front of the ball if there is not a good seal(ring of lead), you will see that on the first shot, most of the grease is blown off the other cylinders, chain fire occurs at the nipple end, only if the chamber is badly corroded or the ball is undersize can flame get into the other cylinders.
The Rogers & Spencer is the only cap and ball revolver I've found which fits my broad palm; go into the aiming position, and it's got the classic 'growing out the end of my arm' feel to it. All the Colts and Remingtons I've tried, the bottom of the grip is an inch too high in my palm, and they feel really insecure.
Thank you sir, It looked like a fine day to be in the field with a blackpowder firearm. It is freezing cold here in Colorado. (-2) I am hoping for warmer weather. What price was Bannerman asking for one of those?
I remember these looking more handsome when I first got interested in bp some ten years back. Now they seem a little less elegant than say the Colt. Must be the way the hammer looks.
If you are loading a revolver to shoot it right after loading I am not sure I understand what makes the one empty cylinder safer than the other five. It was my understanding that the revolver was loaded and carried in a holster and that the empty chamber was for protection in case the gun was dropped from the holster. Even as old and decrepit as I am I probably will not drop the gun while at the range firing it. And if I do what is to say I will not drop it after firing two rounds or so. Thanks for the video and the look at the old guns.
+cerberus Im the same way... Ive asked this question before and have actually gotten flak by some for saying I load all 6. But what exactly is the harm if im going to immediately shoot it?...
+sergeantbigmac from what I have read in historical accounts the cowboys kept one chamber empty because while they were building fence and other cowboy type jobs the revolver was very prone to falling out on the ground. Personally I only load my bp revolver when I am at the range and I load all six. I am not going to be carrying it around in a holster loaded or unloaded.
cerberus Ive heard the same and of course since there is no transfer bar, the hammer is directly over the primer. Its a good idea to keep one chamber unloaded if youre carrying it... But again whats the problem if youre going to immediately shoot it? It all comes down to common sense I think. What makes the most sense in any given scenario and all that.
+cerberus In SASS matches, the rules require that only five cylinders be loaded, with the hammer down on an empty chamber, just in case there is some kind of mishap on the way from the loading table to the firing line. Nearly all Colt clones except for the Ruger Vaquero and one other I know of have a hammer-mounted firing pin, which could cause a discharge of the gun was dropped while the pin was resting on a primer or percussion cap. After you've been doing it for a while, it becomes a habit that's hard to break.
at the end when you shoot at the camera, if you stop the video you can see the 44 cal balls . and the second shot curves down to your right. proves what you said when the barrow gets filled up.
I just picked one up today. Any suggestions on a holster? Not looking for a competition one, just one to use at the range. Hard to find any listings for this revolver on the holsters makers pages.
Piękne pistolet też mam taki mam pytanie ile dokładnie prochu tam wsypujesz do jednej komory i jakiego rozmiaru przebitka filcowa tam jest dziękuję za pomoc i pozdrawiam z Polski👍
I know you made this vid a while back but... have you ever used conical bullets in this pistol ? If so I would like to know how it went. Oh yea... there is another channel called "cap and ball" he had an original with the military markings and even a couple of what looked like kill notches on it that he admittedly didn't know what they were there for. I hope you get this.
With the old notary standard of penetrating a one inch pine board as being a lethal wound, how about seeing how many these old school weapons will penetrate?
Excellent video and great historical background. I guess the R&S is the "Zouave" Rifle of the revolver world. Made during the War and never issued to troops. Doe you know what the rifling twist rate is on the R&S? I'm curious how it would shoot conical balls.
Why does this video come up under a search for "Pettengill Revolver"? I have a Pettengill with a broken sear spring. Need to see what it looks like whole so I can make another one.
greetings from sweden I have question about my rogers ans spencer cal 44 6 shoot revolver.its got a low nr 662 on the side, but the poederbar press whats it called has a nr 661. ho do i find info on this revolver.
Great video Mike. I always thought the R&S would make an excellent subject for a bulldog project. With a rounded gripframe and a shorter barrel it would be an awesome handgun. What do you think?
Got a stainless repro RS. This is a sturdy, practical and accurate revolver. Its a bigger and better Remington. Best with Swiss black powder. The dirty stainless pistol can be dropped into a pot of boiling water and comes out clean and self drying. Too much polishing rounds of the crisp edges. SS is pretty soft. Adjust your bp load so that the ball has minimal clearance to rifled barrel and it shoots perfect to 25m.
What were the holster you used here made to fit? I have a pair of these and need holsters, I checked and el Paso saddled and old west reproductions do not have patterns for these. I don't have any saa holsters for 71/2" barrels, just 51/2 and wondered if that is what I need. Don't want to buy 71/2" holsters for colt saa unless I know they will work
duelist1954 thanks, do they seem to fit well enough for carry? I'm mostly looking for carrying around my wooded property but maybe the occasional sass match
I find it hard to believe out of the 800 civilian guns, none went west. Cap and ball revolvers were certainly used during the late 1860s and early 1870s. Not everyone could or did switch to cartridge guns the second after the war.
Either .375" or .380" inch round balls, 3Fg black powder, Remington #10 percussion caps and either Ox-Yoke wads, or grease for the chamber mouths, and a powder measure. There are lots of other things that are nice to have, but that's what you need to have.
+duelist1954 Are the sights easy to adjust on the 1851? Most shooters at my range put grease at the end of the chambers but it does look like a more measy way so i'll most likely go with the lubed patches
No. There are several different methods...none particularly easy. These videos may help ua-cam.com/video/xtErGRq6Q84/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/tPffq2pbggY/v-deo.html
hi mr duelist i was given a old 1851 navy i cant find any italen poof marks on it my grandpa says it been in my family for years i dont think it is a oriengla it does have colt stamped on the back strap.
Anyone know if either version came nickeled? A friend of mine says the civilian version came nickel plated, where as the army model didn't. Anyone know for sure?
Personal experience tells me that is wrong. No matter what this guy says use the lube. I made that experiment myself. Guess what happened to me. Several times.
Rogers and Spencer made in Utica, NY. My hometown for the win. Not a big surprise they are similar to the Remington made in Ilion, NY, just 20 miles away.
Loved the history and esp the shaving cream!
What I liked about my R&S was that the handle accepted my whole (average size) hand. Colt and Remington were uncomfortable to hold and shoot because my pinky finger was dangling in the air, the butts were too small. Better grip meant much better accuracy.
The rear edge of the grip can be rounded with amazing results. Looks good and much more comfortable to use. Does not add bulk to the gun.
Mike. I cannot tell you how much angst you have saved me over the last 7 months as I've gotten heavily into this hobby. After scouring the bushes for months, I finally won a bid on a very nice R&S .44. I hope to see it by the weekend. I remember the hours of frustration early on (before I found your channel) trying to get my 1858 Remington Cylinder back in place. What a long way I have come. I started with a Uberti Navy London and have come to the point where I refurbished an 1860 Colt Army (CVA) that I tried to build back in the late 1980s. The R&S is one I've had my eye on. Thank you for this video. I will not be able to hit the ground running once mine comes in.
Good old percussion revolvers. Always interesting and elegant pieces.
Best bad guy view ever, you can see the felt wads sailing towards the camera as you fire! Very cool.
Hi Mike i wathing your films every time is the grate!
I also have RS San Paulo 1979. Its a grate rewolwer but l also love Colt.
That is some fine shooting at the end my friend. R&S is nice for big hands like mine.
Nice looking revolver. Thanks for the video.
You explain things so well.
This is one of the few original cap and ball revolvers on the market now that is more commonly available than any other model, and most can even be obtained in mint or near-mint condition. I have heard from other shooters that originals are often mistaken as reproductions because of the quality of construction that went into these guns. The last N-SSA shoot I have been to had quite a few Rogers & Spencer revolvers on the firing line. The original factory that built these weapons was located in Red Hook, Brooklyn, right on the same street as the brewery that dispenses Brooklyn Lager now.
Surprised that the NSSA allows them, since they were not used in the war.
A guy that joined my Facebook group has an original one. It's very impressive.
Glad to see you came out of your cave to make a couple of videos.
Nice video Mike. Glad to see the range you bought is working out so well. Always enjoy your vids my friend. I've always liked the looks of the Rogers and Spencer. Might have to pick one up to go with my Uberti 1858 Remy and my Pietta 1860's.
Great video. Talk about rarity, only 700 S&W Schofields made it to the civilian market before the Army sold off all of theirs. We see them (S&W"s) in a lot of movies now though. Thank-you for the video, Dante.
Cool revolver. Thanks for sharing.
This is streets ahead of the Remington for people with normal size hands with its longer grip frame, it also has sensible size nipple ports that you can actually get caps on in the cold, unlike the awful tiny Remington ones , well done for bringing this one to my attention!
Yeah, but it's ugly, and the Remington isn't.
Really good video, Great explanation of the history of the gun, and great camera angles. Your cameras really pick up sound good
That looks fun!
Awesome miss this stuff
Cool Mike! Hope to see more videos!
The video explains better than words a great design flaw in the R&S revolver. The radically flared grips and the very tall hammer spur may look exotic but are terrible for one handed shooting, requiring the gun be completely repositioned in the hand before and after cocking the hammer. I had one many years ago and to make it shootable I modified the grip into a semi-birdshead and cut off the hammer spur and reattached it at a lower position. And I might add, hanging the loading lever off the cylinder base pin is a bad idea. If you load tight fitting balls which require some force on the lever will bend the cylinder pin down. Perhaps that would not occur if the base pin were of better steel and heat treated but it is what it is.
Looks like there is plenty of room to get caps onto it. My main complaint about most c&b revolvers is that I can't get my fat fingers in there to put caps on. Have to use some kind of capper.
I don't think I would feel too under gunned if I had one of those.
Another great video. Thanks, Duelist.
thanks for confirming my suspicions about the front of cylinder chain fire. I also think that if the ball seals correctly that a front of cylinder chain fire is impossible
Whoever said they seal correctly.
That is what you lube it for.
Good sense says it shouldn't happen, but it does. Just because it's never happened to you doesn't mean it won't.
@@timothyterrell1658 whoever said? Did you watch the video? There is no way in hell the other cylinders are going to ignite from the front unless you use the wrong size balls and i bet that's where the myth came from. With the correct balls a ring of lead comes off that's how tight they fit there's no way sparks are going to get past that. Plus I'd take this guy's word over yours any day of the week.
@@timothyterrell1658 Even with grease in front of the ball if there is not a good seal(ring of lead), you will see that on the first shot, most of the grease is blown off the other cylinders, chain fire occurs at the nipple end, only if the chamber is badly corroded or the ball is undersize can flame get into the other cylinders.
Beautiful gun.
Excellent. Thanks for sharing.
Nice! Looks like they can get the job done on Evil Roy and his gang.
I like the new place great vid
I like the design of that
The Rogers & Spencer is the only cap and ball revolver I've found which fits my broad palm; go into the aiming position, and it's got the classic 'growing out the end of my arm' feel to it. All the Colts and Remingtons I've tried, the bottom of the grip is an inch too high in my palm, and they feel really insecure.
You're one hell of a good shot.
thanks brother
Hi mike, great video as usual. I'm pretty sure Pedersoli still make a Rogers and Spencer.
There is a Spiller and Burr. Same gun with a brass frame.
Greg Pecaut No it is not the Spiller and Burr is a different design
I lucked out and grabbed one of these at the same time I was able to get a Pietta Starr SA new in the box
I guess Evil Roy and his gang didn't get to drink or shave much that week.
I had one of these once and I sold it. I have been kicking myself ever since. I'd give my right arm to get my hands on another one.
You just may be in luck
Thank you sir, It looked like a fine day to be in the field with a blackpowder firearm. It is freezing cold here in Colorado. (-2) I am hoping for warmer weather. What price was Bannerman asking for one of those?
+Hugh Batesel I think it was 25 cents
The first time I forgot to put grease in front of the bullet, was the first time I ever had a flash over.
I remember these looking more handsome when I first got interested in bp some ten years back. Now they seem a little less elegant than say the Colt. Must be the way the hammer looks.
If you are loading a revolver to shoot it right after loading I am not sure I understand what makes the one empty cylinder safer than the other five. It was my understanding that the revolver was loaded and carried in a holster and that the empty chamber was for protection in case the gun was dropped from the holster. Even as old and decrepit as I am I probably will not drop the gun while at the range firing it. And if I do what is to say I will not drop it after firing two rounds or so. Thanks for the video and the look at the old guns.
+cerberus they left one chamber empty so they didn't shoot off a foot while drawing the pistol.
+cerberus Im the same way... Ive asked this question before and have actually gotten flak by some for saying I load all 6. But what exactly is the harm if im going to immediately shoot it?...
+sergeantbigmac from what I have read in historical accounts the cowboys kept one chamber empty because while they were building fence and other cowboy type jobs the revolver was very prone to falling out on the ground. Personally I only load my bp revolver when I am at the range and I load all six. I am not going to be carrying it around in a holster loaded or unloaded.
cerberus Ive heard the same and of course since there is no transfer bar, the hammer is directly over the primer. Its a good idea to keep one chamber unloaded if youre carrying it... But again whats the problem if youre going to immediately shoot it? It all comes down to common sense I think. What makes the most sense in any given scenario and all that.
+cerberus In SASS matches, the rules require that only five cylinders be loaded, with the hammer down on an empty chamber, just in case there is some kind of mishap on the way from the loading table to the firing line. Nearly all Colt clones except for the Ruger Vaquero and one other I know of have a hammer-mounted firing pin, which could cause a discharge of the gun was dropped while the pin was resting on a primer or percussion cap. After you've been doing it for a while, it becomes a habit that's hard to break.
Great show , I read that they sold for .25 cents after the war and they were never issued to the troops .
not seen a roger and spencer strip down
have you done one
Good video
I don't know if you 'll see this but a local gun shop has a beautiful original. Man would I like to bite.
thanks so much for showing this! I love these revolvers but not cap sucking that goes along with it.
Dixie Gun Works still have them listed, but now they are at $500.00.
Saddlebag Preacher sold out now.
nice pistol mike
like your hat Mike
at the end when you shoot at the camera, if you stop the video you can see the 44 cal balls . and the second shot curves down to your right. proves what you said when the barrow gets filled up.
I just picked one up today. Any suggestions on a holster? Not looking for a competition one, just one to use at the range. Hard to find any listings for this revolver on the holsters makers pages.
Civil War Collection - Rogers & Spencer Revolver
Some like Pietta or Uberti should make these again! Even Pedersoli no longer makes these.
Piękne pistolet też mam taki mam pytanie ile dokładnie prochu tam wsypujesz do jednej komory i jakiego rozmiaru przebitka filcowa tam jest dziękuję za pomoc i pozdrawiam z Polski👍
I know you made this vid a while back but... have you ever used conical bullets in this pistol ? If so I would like to know how it went.
Oh yea... there is another channel called "cap and ball" he had an original with the military markings and even a couple of what looked like kill notches on it that he admittedly didn't know what they were there for.
I hope you get this.
They were loaner guns. I only shot them with round balls
I fired 2 gr, hollow points from a Lee mold, they were very accurate.
With the old notary standard of penetrating a one inch pine board as being a lethal wound, how about seeing how many these old school weapons will penetrate?
Excellent video and great historical background. I guess the R&S is the "Zouave" Rifle of the revolver world. Made during the War and never issued to troops. Doe you know what the rifling twist rate is on the R&S? I'm curious how it would shoot conical balls.
I believe it is 1:26
nice
I like these revolvers but I think I would like that spur dropped a bit.
Great vid
Why does this video come up under a search for "Pettengill Revolver"?
I have a Pettengill with a broken sear spring. Need to see what it looks like whole so I can make another one.
The Rogers and Spencer was an "improved" Pettengill. It's based on their action.
Too bad Pietta or Uberti hasn't picked up on making that one. That's one I would like to have.
greetings from sweden I have question about my rogers ans spencer cal 44 6 shoot revolver.its got a low nr 662 on the side, but the poederbar press whats it called has a nr 661. ho do i find info on this revolver.
Will a R&S cylinder work on my Euroarms "1858"
Great video Mike. I always thought the R&S would make an excellent subject for a bulldog project. With a rounded gripframe and a shorter barrel it would be an awesome handgun. What do you think?
Got a stainless repro RS. This is a sturdy, practical and accurate revolver. Its a bigger and better Remington. Best with Swiss black powder. The dirty stainless pistol can be dropped into a pot of boiling water and comes out clean and self drying. Too much polishing rounds of the crisp edges. SS is pretty soft. Adjust your bp load so that the ball has minimal clearance to rifled barrel and it shoots perfect to 25m.
I would like to know if ball and cap revolvers can be loaded and stored for later?
TheRfleming yes. As long as it is in a dry environment.
thank you.
your site is very informative on black powder guns.
What were the holster you used here made to fit?
I have a pair of these and need holsters, I checked and el Paso saddled and old west reproductions do not have patterns for these. I don't have any saa holsters for 71/2" barrels, just 51/2 and wondered if that is what I need. Don't want to buy 71/2" holsters for colt saa unless I know they will work
I was using SAA holsters
duelist1954 thanks, do they seem to fit well enough for carry?
I'm mostly looking for carrying around my wooded property but maybe the occasional sass match
as I recall...they were borrowed guns, just for the video
I find it hard to believe out of the 800 civilian guns, none went west. Cap and ball revolvers were certainly used during the late 1860s and early 1870s. Not everyone could or did switch to cartridge guns the second after the war.
It was interesting to see the wads flying at the camera in the last sequence.
What would people recommend for a first time black powder shooter? I've been thinking of going for a .44 but i'm not too sure
I'd recommend a .36 caliber, steel framed 1851 Navy, go with Uberti
+duelist1954 Thanks for the info, what other equipment is needed?
Either .375" or .380" inch round balls, 3Fg black powder, Remington #10 percussion caps and either Ox-Yoke wads, or grease for the chamber mouths, and a powder measure. There are lots of other things that are nice to have, but that's what you need to have.
+duelist1954 Are the sights easy to adjust on the 1851? Most shooters at my range put grease at the end of the chambers but it does look like a more measy way so i'll most likely go with the lubed patches
No. There are several different methods...none particularly easy. These videos may help ua-cam.com/video/xtErGRq6Q84/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/tPffq2pbggY/v-deo.html
I have a stainless Rogers and Spencer how much is it worth?
It’s pretty😍
hi mr duelist i was given a old 1851 navy i cant find any italen poof marks on it my grandpa says it been in my family for years i dont think it is a oriengla it does have colt stamped on the back strap.
Colt made replicas in the 60s for the centennial of the American civil war.
Could also have been a defarbed replica, reenactors do that quite often
george bannerman ? or francis ?
The bad guys view at the end of this video I'd swear I could see the lead balls flying, maybe it was the wads ...
Can anyone tell me where to order one of these?
Anyone know if either version came nickeled? A friend of mine says the civilian version came nickel plated, where as the army model didn't.
Anyone know for sure?
I have read up pretty well on these over the years. I have 2 repros and now an original
Never saw any book references of that.
I've seen some nickeled on the British website "Henry Krank" , have a look if you can ..
Greetings from France
Same motion applies to a M1895 Nagant revolver cylinder replacement,,,,just say 'in. :)
You said "from 1965 until 1901" LoL. Nice vid though.
I said Remington to myself. Thank you.
Pedersoli makes them now
Almost forgot... when cap and ball fired his pistol the second round failed to fire just like yours did... strange huh.
s/b 1865-1901 not 1965-1901
Personal experience tells me that is wrong. No matter what this guy says use the lube. I made that experiment myself. Guess what happened to me. Several times.