Why Cartier is god tier and how the Santos Dumont proves it
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2023
- Cartier is THE god tier watch brand and not for the reasons you think. Taking a look at the Santos Dumont and what it says about Cartier I discuss what makes Cartier so special in the world of watches.
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Cheers!
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I am turning 60 years old and have just purchased my dream watch, a Cartier Santos. I am so excited and blessed.
Lucky you - good choice 😃😃
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Thanks so much and excellent video!!
At the beginning of the video, I was ready to give you a solid argument, but the more I listened the more I realized that you are 100% right. Anyone could argue one or two of the points that you brought up, but nobody would be able to argue every point and measure up against Cartier. Excellent analysis! Well done.😎👍🏼
LOL 😂😂😂
Really happy you thought I had an interesting perspective on the topic. 😀
See you around 👍
ETA movements?
Cartier never seems out of place because it’s got such a strong design language and heritage. Like a cult classic film, it’s not always the most respected or ‘best’, but it is appreciated by tastemakers.
Yes they sell largely mass produced products but those who choose Cartier pieces are often people with a particular taste level, a particular type of confidence and they go their own way. In a room of Pateks, APs VCs and FP Journes, a Cartier person can still fit in but stand out. The Cartier person isn’t competing on ranking, but is showing their sense of style or taste. A Rolex person however, may seem out of place in that room, or be seen as ‘less sophisticated’, or having an‘entry level’ in taste or budget. And this can be achieved with a small sized steel tank quartz watch. Because those who wear Cartier watches are not playing the same game, they’re playing their own game.
Good perspectives, thanks for sharing .😃
Well said.
This is the type of gate keeping snobbery that turns me off from associating with watch enthusiasts and why I’ll never attend a watch meet up.
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatchthank you this video was an educational experience, I own an automatic omega sea master 300 bond watch but I’m definitely getting a carrier next maybe a tank or this Santos I just need a dress watch for formal occasions
It takes a deep pocket to be in that room. But it takes taste and class to wear a tank.
I was a Friend of the Brand for Panerai for more than five years, and am currently looking for a watch to mark my 50th birthday. This is the absolute BEST break down of the Cartier watch brand I have ever seen, and look forward to adding one to my collection.
My theory as to why Cartier can do what it wants, so to speak, watch-wise, is because of its name. It’s known more for fabled jewellery, and hence luxury - therefore being able to flog overpriced pens, spectacle frames, handbags etc. You don’t buy the watch - as you do with a Patek or Lange - you buy an association.
That said, I’ve just realised a latent craving for a Santos de Cartier - and that’s because I remember, as an impressionable youngster, seeing it on the wrist of the leisured rich: an association.
You're probably not totally off. Those brand names tend to linger 😀
This is absolutely true - it succinctly describes the essence of Cartier watches, which I could never put my finger on. Irrespective of history or recency bias, irrespective of movement, irrespective of size trends, Cartier does Cartier and we love it.
I instantly click on your videos whenever I see you upload. Your videos are well researched and eloquently spoken. Can't wait to see ur channel grow.
Thanks a ton! Appreciated - Will try to keep it up 😀
I do the same. Mike is up there with the best reviewers. WFH
So Cartier wasn't even something I considered for a watch until earlier this year. I had no clue about their history, their creations, and how they pioneered the watch space early on. I've been obsessed with the Santos (large) for many months. Finally, found a good deal and awaiting for it's arrival. Great video, as always. ❤
Cheers 😀
You're a great communicator.
I couldn't help but agree with everything you said... because you are absolutely right, and explained why you are right very eloquently.
I appreciate that! 😃
One of the best watch videos I've ever seen. You've touched upon points that completely changes the way one looks at watches. Recently, I've been completely infatuated with Cartier watches and this video makes me love them more. Their designs for me are just perfect - minimalistic yet classic and ageless. Also, I love how it breaks the conventions of masculinity associated with larger watches. Right now saving for a Tank Must solarbeat and subscribing your channel for sure.
Really kind of you. I'm doing my best to make something people find worthy of watching, so when I hit the mark and people like you let me know, it means a lot. Thanks! 😀😀
So nice to hear a solid, straight forward South African accent and take on the subject. I've always liked Cartier watches and now even more so!
Ja boet! Thanks 😀
Absolutely loved this one! I was not aware of all the paradoxes you brought up and how absolutely gangsta Cartier are. Cheers
Thanks and….
Cheers 😀
Nice video, I enjoy the vibe you give! Agree fully. Cartier are proper watch makers where everything they do is class.
Thanks for watching! 😀😀
I'm a relatively new watch enthusiast and the Cartier Santos is at the top of my list. In no other world would I ever consider spending that much on a watch. Not even a Rolex (although I did have a passing interest). And yes, you're 100% right about the quartz vs mechanical argument. I think quartz has its place, but I think most enthusiasts agree that quartz doesn't belong in $3k+ watches, with the exception, of course, Cartier.
I recently tried on the Santos de Cartier in large and was hooked. I go for pilot watches because I am an aviation enthusiast, and while it doesn’t check the usual boxes, being “the first watch made for piloting” is pretty special!
I admit to cognitive dissonance here - even though I know Cartier’s history with watchmaking, I tend to think of them as primarily a jewelry brand, and I prefer brands who focus on watchmaking. This one is going on my wishlist though!
We're all slaves to storytelling. I've learned to embrace it 😂😂
I like Cartier over Rolex, when it comes to Dress watches….
Great video. I own a Santos de Cartier, and I wear it almost daily. Your video makes me want to buy another Cartier!
My apologies for helping you empty your bank account 😂😂
100% agreed, I m in the process since a month of figuring out if I go vintage galbée or carrée OR Santos de cartier OR Santos Dumont, and i still hesitate, although the medium santos de cartier is in the lead. Great vid btw
Thanks - Appreciate it. Let me know what you end up deciding on 👍
I am convinced and had to rewatch the video to soak it all in. I still remember my backpacking trip during college in Paris. I saw a couple on the train with matching Cartier (some model of Santos) and was amazed by them.
😃 Glad you found it worth your time 👊
Agreed, the medium santos is amazing and the skeleton santos is an incredible design wish they made it also in medium.
This is absolutely true, I was with my white dial Tissot Gentleman Powermatic 80 silicium and my godfather has a Quartz white dial Cartier Santos Galbee Large and I was mesmerized by it, kept turning my head every once in a while just to look at it. I don't know what it was, but something that kept me thinking the whole time why was I so stunned by that watch...
I really enjoyed this video and your freshness as a watch reviewer. And I agree, Cartier has that special power. Yes!
Thanks - Glad you enjoyed it 😀😀
I have an early 1980's Cartier Santos, steel and gold "Carree" model. My mother gave it to me for my 21st. It was my every day watch for over 15 years. I still have it and wear it every so often. It is small compared to my other, more recent watches. However that face, the screw down crown and the way the bracelet captures/reflects light as you roll the wrist represent a unique combination that makes up for any size deficiency and forces you to like it!
I tried on the Santos Dumont XL recently. Beautiful timepiece and on my shortlist to acquire in the near future.
Hi Mike, every time my wife wears her Cartier Santos 2-tone, I can't take my eyes off it; God tier indeed. Really appreciate your insightful & professional comments on world of watches not to mention that you are not trying to sell watches, as most watch commentators try to do. JNRA
Thanks. Appreciated 😀
May I ask the size of her watch?
@@eskim21 My wife's Santos is 27.6 mm wide, 37.8 mm lug to lug, lug width is 15.6 mm and it is 7.5 mm thick. Hope this is useful.
More good stuff. I think it's worth adding that Cartier transcends Richemont. It is given free reign and not condemned to Veblen pricing and a limiting 'theme.' The irony is that Richemont's watch brands are treated and positioned like jewellery, while Cartier (undoubtedly a jeweller first and foremost) is allowed to be a watchmaker. What I mean by this is that Cartier starts with a design first, while other Richemont brands start with market segmentation analysis. The enthusiast community unconsciously sees this.
Yep. Agree and again a good point. Tudor always has to consider movement and watch as one, going back and forth in design until both design criteria are met a- which initially lead to thick cases to accomodate thicker movements.
Cartier? They draw something pretty and find the movement that fits.
Cheers 😀
Love it! What a great video. I got into Cartier 20 years ago with the 2004 Santos anniversary model. I loved it until they came out with smaller versions which looked better. I found myself falling for the smaller and sleeker models, meanwhile I still wore big Panerais among others. I’m even more stoked to go try out the dumont, Santos medium, and some Tanks. Well done!!
Thanks for sharing 😊😊
I actually saving up for a Cartier Santos. The design, the history and even the specs all speak to me.
I went to go buy a Santos today and decided to wait one day ... after this video I realized it is the perfect watch for me ...... thanks bro!!
Good choice! 😀
cartier is so class and so cool, i have one and i am always amazed by the look of it... just like my vacheron overseas
@@bensaigon3589I’ve been looking into Vacheron and I was considering saving for a vintage model
Great review! Couldn't agree more! The Santos Dumont is so elegant and versatile! Would love your thoughts on the Reverso!
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed the vid.
A reverso vid would be a good idea - noted 😀😀
All fantastic points. I have the Santos Medium and would LOVE someone to come up with an aftermarket quick connect that could allow the use of a springbar. That would extend the life of the watch forever, because I worry about strap support - think along the lines of Roadster.
Agree - I went into a large Cartier store the other day, in a major city and getting a strap had a huge wait time on many versions. Frustrating honestly 😀😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch exactly! Lead times were months, not weeks, at my local AD. Delugs was a great alternative till they shut that down, but if Cartier discontinued these like the Roadster, many people would be up in arms. I guess there’s always the bracelet as a backup in 30 years.
I was set on the Santos Dumont, but never pulled the trigger. Then on a recent trip, stumbled on the black Santos on the rubber strap.
Never seen it in person and after checking second hand prices, the reason was clear:
It's maybe the best Santos and sells out as soon as it hits the display case.
Needless to say, made the deal and zero regrets. Absolutely love it, despite not...liking the Cartier "brand" since it's so associated with luxury/flex culture.
Fun fact : on steel the Cabochon is a spindle on rare metals (gold, etc) it’s a sapphire.
Well said. You nail it. Cartier was able to impose his vision and standard and that is power.
Over a 100 years and still going strong 😀
I was surprised how slim and comfortable the xl was on my wrist. Would love to own one some day. ❤
Hi, really liking your stuff this video of your was my final end to skepticism on the domunt and pull it for a purchase , enjoying my quartz peice throughly.
All the points are so true. I own santos dumont L with the quarz movement. When I shop watches I compare everything from value to movement but not for this watch. I simply dont care about the quarz movement because it looks and feels amazing. But I also do think that Rolex has the same power and it would also tick all the boxes mentioned if they introduced watches like this one.
Yeah - Rolex is up there for sure. 😀
Definitely the tortoise and the hare. Before I wouldn't have dreamt of considering them, but, with the history , style and build quality they're certainly on the radar now, pardon the pun!
Really well thought out video and I'm sure there's lots of us agreeing and scratching our heads.
I am 69 yrs old and only recently started to take a close interest in watches thanks to informative UA-cam channels like yours. My collection is less than 2yrs old and includes Omega, Rolex, Longines, Christopher Ward and Seiko brands. I now have my eyes on a Cartier Tank in stainless steel for my next watch to celebrate my 70yrs on this troubled planet.
I am struggling to decide between a Cartier Tank Must Solarbeat Large and the Cartier Tank Must Automatic Extra Large. I've tried both watches at my AD and both look fine on my 7in wrist but a case size somewhere between the two would be perfect. Compared to the Large model, the Extra Large is more expensive but seems to offer a lot of watch for the money. I would appreciate your thoughts to help me come off the fence on this one. Thank you.
Great video. I’m looking for a dress watch and have been thinking of the Santos Dumont or Tank for a long time. Which model would you lean?
That's for you to decide. 😉
I definitely lean Santos Dumont, but if I went tank it would be one of the pure black dial models just for variety 😀 Buy what you like, is all I can say 😀😀😀
Excellent. And without screaming at me. Keep it up.
I prefer not to scream (as opposed to others..... 😎) 😀
Recently got my first santos, the steel and grey one, best watch I’ve ever had and best been gift ever gifted
I live in a tropical region so water resistance was the deciding factor for me, but I can see your points.
Fair point. These are not ideal for monsoon and hurricane climates 😀
It also doesn't look like these watches can handle the amount of daily humidity in tropical and subtropical areas. I live in a place that rains a lot and has high humidity on days without rain. Not sure Cartier specs can withstand these conditions.
I own a new Santos de Cartier(Lg) with the quick change bracelet and tooless link removal and it is by far my favorite watch and I own watches from Breguet, Rolex, Omega, Breitling, Bucherer, and Tag among others. It makes both a great sport watch and of course and excellent watch to wear with a suit. I’m thinking about buying the blue face or a Tank Americaine…
A man with good taste 😉
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Thanks
I pulled the trigger on a Tank Must XL that I had been vacillating over and I hold you and this video solely responsible, Mike.
That's a very fascinating point and I agree with you. I'm still waiting for the Cartier solar Tank to return on the shelves.
Thanks for the feedback.
The solar - for sure. Good watch .😃
Thanks for the review - very interesting. What are your thoughts about the Cartier Tank MC and their in-house movements?
Great video, very informative. I've never considered getting a Cartier before because of two reasons: 1) the polished stainless steel surfaces scratch too easily which would drive me crazy every time I look down at my wrist, 2) the jewel on the crown makes these watches look like fashion watches. Overall these watches look too delicate for every day wear.
Wow ! Now that was a great watch (pun or no pun intended). Wonderful video !
Lol. 😂
Come back again if you have "time" to "watch" another one... 😉
great video and agree Cartier is God Tier…..I own the XL Gold Dumont LE and a black grey dial Santos L and a Tank Solo L and a Cartier de Calibre. my favorite brand. I have three additional straps for my Santos, not to mention the rubber one which came with the watch a plus 😊
Thanks and yes, yes they are 😃😃
They are also the only watch brand that does other stuff besides watches and dont get looked down on it for it.
I feel like they are in their own category.
Good point. Totally agree 😃
Excellent! Watching from Farsta, vacation day 23.
Seriously envious of you! Do you even need to work?? 😂😂😂
Thank you for your amazing review. Do you think the Dumont XL would fit a 6.5 inch wrist?
The XL might seem a bit large on 6.5 for some, but give it a shot... It is very much subjective 😃😃
New subscriber here!.. Amazing review, Mike! You’re a natural. You single-handed renewed my love for Cartier, the Santos in particular. Celebrating my 55th birthday & this will make the perfect way to celebrate the milestone.
Thanks - happy to have you on board 😀
What an interesting set of arguments! Your one line on Panerai now makes me weary on wearing it ever 😂
Lol! 😂😂
I wrote a disclaimer in the video stating "not my own opinion" 😂
Especially since I have been known to wear a Panerai myself...
Even worse I wear a Duo 38
😳😂😂😂
Watch collecting is a rollercoaster. I bought a Cartier Ronde De Santos quartz 10 years ago it was my second watch . I almost forgot about it ( small, quartz and effeminate ) but now love it. Cartier god tier why not
Outstanding analysis!
Glad you like it 😃😃
Spell check, spell check, and spell check again. lol 😋
Still, an OUTSTANDING and spot on video - thank you. What you described in your video, I simply call the "Cartier vibe". I feel it when I wear either my Tank XL or Santos Carree. It's a level of confidence like no other watch I own (GS, Omega, Paneari, GO, or Zenith).
Because you brought it up in your video, I debated long on this one - I chose my Tank Xl primarily because of the in-house MC1847 movement (same as the Santos) over the Tank Large quartz movement. Whereas, I actually prefer the Tank Large as it's more in line with the Tank Louie.
This is an awesome (!!!) analysis. Really, really well done. Couldn’t agree more. Cartier is THE god tier watch brand. Full stop.
Glad you enjoyed it 😀
There are so many UA-camrs in the watch community who are merely scratching the surface of this hobby, and who keep repeating the same sentences in every video (not to mention some of them are recycling their own videos with a slightly changed title and slightly different commentary). Your videos are what I would consider to be serious watch-related content. Thank you.
Glad you like it - I am trying to be my own kind of UA-camr and am thrilled that my approach resonates with some 😃
When I wear one of my Cartier watches, I feel like I’m wearing a luxury timepiece. It makes me feel that I’m wearing a classy watch. You are absolutely right that it is a recognizable timepiece. I see other people looking at my wrist because they know Cartier.
Shockingly insightful!
Thanks 😀
I was already serious about buying a Santos-Dumont L or XL. After your analysis, I decided to buy one this year. I will try depending on my 16.5cm wrist to see which is better.
Such a nice watch . . . Too nice for a T-shirt and hoodie.
As says my wife to. But neither she nor you have a say in what I choose to wear. Style be damned.
Cheers😂😂😂
Since the cartier masse mystérieuse, my idea of them as a watchmaker completely changed.
I much prefer the Louis to the santos dumont. It’s the highest refinement of the brand imo. The santos might have been first but the revised tank iteration from being stubby and more elegant by Louis himself is the gold standard imo.
Hard to disagree with you. The Louis does have that extra level of refinement 😃
Would you always advise buying new in order to get the 8 year warranty plus the extra leather strap, cleaning kit and case etc as opposed to the secondary market that seems to me only marginally cheaper without the thrills and warranty? Maybe I’ve answered my own question.
Great analysis.
Thank you 😃😃
best line in video, "square isnt quite as challenging as tonneau but it isnt for everybody."
It’s up there with “ask not what your country can do for you” 😂
I'd say Chopard comes pretty close even though they are off course not anywhere near in size. They do jewelry, quartz (the famous Happy Diamonds) and ETA in Mille Miglia topped with high end/haut de gamme watchmaking in their L.U.C line.
Chopard is still very much a connoisseurs brand, for those in the know, but it does in many ways resemble Cartier.
Recently I bought a Two-Tone Santos Medium. Never likes TT, on no watch at all. The Santos however, is simply awesome in Steel-Gold. For me that is another prove of how Cartier is different and how their design can be perceived in a totally different way than with other brands.
Fascinating and informative video. You made a lot of good points. However, as a watch lover - mechanical, quartz, high end, microbrand, indeed anything that catches my eye at the right price - I cannot love any of the current range of Cartier square or tank models. I find the slender Roman numerals underwhelming visually.
Instead, I’d prefer a Jaeger-LeCoultre Reverso. The quality of JLC is excellent. And arguably the designs more watch than jewellery.
Personally it took me a while to warm to the roman numerals and the tank is still not a watch I really see myself owning, but the pure squares - those I like.
Thanks for sharing 😀😀
My santos 100 is undeniably the most understated and the most desirable in my collection! Every time i wear it people comment on its strap or the design of the watch. I laugh, as to me it’s a design classic!
Question for you and perhaps you won’t be able to answer this. But going forward, say 10-20 years from now, do you see Carrie still supporting their proprietary quick change system. The only reason I haven’t bought a Santos XL is because I don’t want to be stuck unable to find a watch strap in a decade from now when I need a new leather strap for the watch. Dropping 10-15k on a watch and not being able to wear in 10 years from now would really suck.
I love Cartier. The JLC Reverso is another contender.
Grew up in the 80s and it was the Miami Vice/Gordon Gecko era - two watch choices the Solid Gold Rolex Datejust on a jubilee or the Cartier two tone Santos. In recent years I looked at both to connect me to my youth. Pleased to say I went with the Large S&G Santos - it is an amazing watch and I kinda feel like an outlier vs being part of the Rolex Club (don't get me wrong Rolex are terrific just not a brand for me)😀
I feel cartier watches are making a strong comeback. Suddenly a lot more interest in these watches. My fav is still the ball blue ❤
Excellent video!
Thank you very much! 😀
Thanks! Love the dumont and feel drawn to the two tone, quiet expensive quartz watches though haha, but like you say, they get away with it! What do you prefer, Cartier or Rolex?
Putting me on the spot there....
Let me put it this way. I have an excel sheet where I can see exactly by day, which watch I wore most in a year.
This year. So far.
3rd: Rolex Explorer
2nd: Cartier Santos
1st: Seiko SPB143
Cheers 😃😃😃
Well done!
Thanks 😀
Is a good point Carter minimise their watch size by using quartz, but I think is also to do with profit margin, they can put a mechanical manual wind movement in it and we know they had done it, e.g Basculante 2390. People don't question Cartier's movement as most watch collectors don't collect them, well except now when the collectors/dealers like Eric Ku and Goldberger once again wanna make money in the market as they have fully saturated the vintage Rolex market.
😎 Je suis Parisien, et je confirme votre analyse.
Cartier... c'est Cartier.
Une image unique. 🥰
Merci 😊😊😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch 🤗 Merci à vous, j'ai observé dès le début de votre vidéo, que votre cerveau était beau. Vous avez mis les bons mots pour décrire ce que je pense et j'ai maintenant un allier contre ceux qui me reproche d'aimer les monstres Cartier.
Thank You !!! 🥹 Vous êtes un homme avancé.
Luxury watches rely mainly on their heritage. Yes, they are brilliantly designed, craftfully engineered, meticulously finished (and often hideously complicated), but their main selling point is their story. Cartier's story? They had the first purpose-built men's wristwatch. Coming from that chauvinist age (to our slightly less chauvinist age), it's a claim nobody else can make (only make up).
Good perspective 😀
cartier's designs are so god tier that it makes people forget to ask about the movement lol
"i love how cartier exposes our own cognitive dissonances and inconsistent buying rationales"
that's a god tier line.
first time i got my hands on the large dumont and i'm completely bought into the brand. i'm no longer, and probably has never been, a movement enthusiast to the degree i like to tell myself.
i just want handsome pieces.
ya'll do too.
Precisely - Me want good looking watches. No more. No less.
Thanks for sharing 😀😀
I am not a gold watch kind of guy, but the one gold watch I own (out of 18 watches total) is Tank Louis and I couldn't be happier with it.
Well, maybe except for the crown. That tiny crown is a damn nuisance to wind.
Louis? Very good choice. Love that watch 😀
Great video. You got another subscriber
Thank you so much 😊😊
Superb information-I love Cartier. I held off buying the medium Santos because I was afraid the bracelet and strap would not be long enough for my 7.5 inch wrist. Is there a way to get a medium with a long)enough bracelet and strap?
Thanks - Glad you enjoyed it.
I don't actually know. I know from other purchases the Cartier does customise sometimes, but if they do it here and at what price - No clue 😀😀
I have a 7.75" wrist. No issues with the standard bracelet or strap provided
The Santos is just so versatile, it works as a dress watch but you can pull it off in sweat pants heading to Starbucks if you are feeling fancy 🎩
Great insight, thanks for sharing. Do you own one? Love to see a video of your personal collection :)
Thanks, you're welcome. I own a Santos . Never pulled the trigger in the dumont but have been tempted multiple times 😃😃
Cartier is God tier but you are better off buying brsnd new from the grey market. Their value drop is horrendous.
Very true. Retail is a tough sell. It's not more than 5-6 years ago that Cartier had to buy back thousands and thousands of watches from the secondary market so they didn't tank their own brand... 😀😀
Exactly. I posted a similar comment before reading yours. They are such a bad buy, new.
One day they will line up their screws...
Joking aside, amazing watches. Very iconic design.
I love the Santos Dumont and there is a serious lack of videos on UA-cam taking this watch seriously. Excellent video and analysis!!!
Thanks - Glad you enjoyed it 😃😃😃
Next year I want to get a tank must mechanical. Simply love how it looks but when splashing thousands I pretty much demand mechanical and not a battery
Cartier sets the highest standard. In the universe of watches which other brand can come close to its nearly mystical level of prestige & desirability? “I own a Cartier,” or “my husband bought me a Cartier.” Bow down to the highest standard.
Exactly. 😃
I was considering santos but quartz. And Im not sure with which one to go...
Can’t go for these yet as I’m only 32, just doesn’t feel right. But santos top of the list 10 years from now 😁
I love the shape and the oval watches such as the Omega DeVilles. They’re classy and make you look twice.
My W3103H3 is sublime, imho outshines the Daytona and has a date function, and affordable!
I haven’t had my Santos that long, but I knocked it a few times and the bezel hasn’t visibly scratched yet, maybe Cartier has increased the hardness
Or you’re lucky. Either way - enjoy the watch 😀
My small wrist size dictates small cartier watches including the Panther Cartier which originally was designed for……you got it…..for men.
what i love is, cartier is willing to take risks. even if sometimes it destroys the watch, eg: the santos 100 was hated so much when it came out, and i don't like it even now. But i still love that they're willing to take that risk. zero chance rolex will have the balls to do that
No guts, no glory as the say. Playing it safe doesn't get you the next iconic design 😀😀
Thanks for sharing you thoughts👍