Why good cheap(er) watches are the best watches
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- When you find a great watch at 1000 dollars, you have to consider how much that brand went through to catch your eye. Nothing is harder than selling a relatively cheaper watch. Rolex, Vacheron and Richard Mille have it easy. In this video I explorer why.
Enjoy!
If you do, consider leaving a comment, a like and even a sub. I hugely appreciate your support.
Cheers
Mike!
For inquiries and collabs: twtw.mike@gmail.com
The average personal debt in America is $104,215 across mortgages, auto loans, student loans, and credit cards. Home ownership is starting to seem an out-of-reach fantasy for many young adults. The average age of personal vehicles is now over 12 years old. WHO, exactly, considers a $1000 watch _cheap???_
In a hobby where prices easily go into the millions, "cheap" will always be a relative term. Therefore also the use of the term cheap(er) in the title and thumbnail. For the same reason affordable as a term was not used as that connotes something different.
Cheers 😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Well expressed. I think I (and other commenters) were startled because we clicked on your video expecting (based on your tag line) ideas for watches in our price range. The largest demographic of non-aficionado watch buyers is going to spend under $100. We figure if you just want the time on your wrist and don't care about brand names, that should be plenty - and even in that market it shouldn't be hard to make them easy on the eyes. But yes, clearly 'Under $1000' _is_ cheap(er), relative to the different demographic you're in.
And bidenomics has only made it worse. Even bagged mulch is twice what it was a few years ago.
@@pamelah6431politics on a watch channel? Maybe you need to turn off the news
Quite right, just get cheap they all do the same thing, or get a sun dial for the garden
My new favourite watch youtuber. No bullshit. Lots of genuine business thinking. Very interesting and entertaining.
Agreed. Would love to see an even deeper look at the business side of the industry and key players. An analysis of their positioning, strategic direction, and competitive analysis would be great. Perhaps a semi-annual or annual examination.
I am with you on that. Also my new favorite watch youtuber. I really like the way he approaches watches and watch market. Bravo!
Hugely appreciated. Happy you appreciate my style and I will try my best to keep it up 😃😃
Fully agree!
I fully endorse your sentiment. 👍
Some people in the watchworld seem to forget how much money 1000 Dollar is.
Not untrue. 1000 is real money for most people 😃😃
😅 Yeah really... $1K "cheap(er)"...
I get both sides of this but, yes, when I see the word "cheap" being thrown around, I AM more inclined to believe that maybe some love is going to be thrown at Casio or Timex. 🤣
Come to think of it, ever notice Armitron never gets any love? 🤣
These are precision devices that often still involve a human watchmaker putting it all together and machining the parts by hand. $1k is a lot of money, but by the same token, one of those $1k watches might well last you an entire lifetime if you care for it with even the slightest bit of care. I've got a couple, probably less expensive, watches from the 19th century that work just fine after being repaired following a prolonged period of time sitting in a barn.
A watch is one of the few items that is likely to always be appreciated as a family heirloom. They don't take up much space and even if they stop functioning, they're still nice to look at.
A 1000 dollars is about 20% of a monthly average salary in the US. Slightly less than 20% for your average monthly in the UK. And about 50% of an average montly salary in a country like Poland.
This guy should be paid as a consultant to all the watch brands. He’s nailed every point on the pitfalls of design, marketing and more that all watch brands should be paying very close attention to if they wish to succeed. This was a really great episode.
Very kind of you - thanks 😀😀
Totally agree
I agree. I have a question. Why are there no women doing these kind of videos? A friend alerted me to this situation. Any ideas?
@@adrianjanssens7116Jenni Elle does though a lot of her stuff is Rolex price range
@@limirl Thank you. Why did I miss this? I am trying and can't find any sites from a women's viewpoint. I will check Jenni out. One out of hundreds of dudes.
This channel is quickly becoming one of my favorites. Erudite, no BS, no antics, calm delivery, and overall just a pleasant place to come hang out and listen to some excellent topics.
10/10 all day.
My thoughts too, only recently found this channel and its my no.1 now, as you say no gimics.
I appreciated the kind words. Will do my very best to keep it up 😃😃
Yep, couldn't say it better than you @thee...; really appreciate Mike TWTW
I was going to say the same thing. Good, sober work.
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch - I think you’ll do just fine!
Not hating or jealous, but dang it’s crazy watching people discuss buying watches over $900. I love watches but have a hard time conceiving that there’s truly a $1000 difference in value or quality between my Orient or Seiko or Glycine and an Omega or Breitling
Let’s be honest. Watches these days are more like Jewelry. For accuracy, mechanical watches can’t beat a $20 Casio. Getting a watch is more of a statement than basic time keeping. It’s way easier to do this with an established brand vs one that no one knows about. E.g you want something that shows off success and achievement, you get a Rolex. You want to show off your practicality and ruggedness you might get a Casio g shock. Collaborations with non watch brands are getting more common. Like sovil and Titus latest mickie mouse anniversary watch and anime themed limited edition watches.
You're not wrong on accuracy.... but in a digital age of everything being electronic... it's really amazing to have a mechanical watch run with no batteries and no electricity involved.... just physics and the power of your own body transferred into the spring. That's why i love mechanical watches. They are powered by my own body's energy
Formex, Christopher Ward and Traska are all killing it in the mix of design/quality/value space and i have experience with all 3. They are not the watches that say my Spring Drive or Moonwatch pieces are, but they can't be of course. And as an enthusiast I neither want nor can I afford to fill the watch boxes with Big Dogs. That's not the fun of this hobby for me. You keep knocking back those review offers: what brings me to this channel is the well-considered discussions of this space and no-one else is really doing it. Bravo.
There's not enough genuine opinions; There's more than enough UA-camrs sucking up to the brands. Please keep doing what you're doing.
Everyone of them sellout at some point.
@@khazelnut Yea, I reckon it’s because when they get a large following they can become full time UA-camrs, but then they have to bang out lots of content every week for revenue to pay bills. Watch manufacturers come along offering payment for reviews, it’s an easy pay day.
I’m sure you will have noticed how many channels review the same watch within days of each other. Coincidence? I think not. lol.
@@martinowl some are UA-camrs turned bad. Some are just facades of large conglomerates right off the bat.
@@khazelnutThe grift is real. On one hand, I admire the free market, the invisible hand, competition, and capitalism.
On the other hand, not every human interaction has to be mediated by filthy lucre.
I will do my best.... Thanks 😃😃
I accidentally stumbled onto this channel, and this video was so well done that I had to subscribe. It really is refreshing to see great content without any shouting, screaming, or hype. Just useful information and analysis.
Appreciated - Glad you have you on board. 😊😊
I think Baltic is the best recent success story in this space and I'm not just saying that because I have an MR01. They had initial success with dress and divers, now they have released a field option and they're not just teasing the same dial aesthetic each time, yet still maintaining a cohesive brand identity. I think they're killing it
I raise you Christopher Ward. THAT is insane value right there, especially the Twelve, if you manage to get one...
@@EskiZagraso the question becomes at what point does a brand become… “established” is a Muhle Glashutte not in this category because of it’s heritage? Ball? … Nomos? These companies I believe do offer offerings in that reasonable price point. I wholeheartedly heartily agree with the statement of “ thinking long and hard” before I drop a grand on a watch hell I think long and hard before I drop 500-800 on a watch. I feel he hit the nail on the head with a lot of the points in this video.
@@ssgmeader yes, I agree. The CW example i gave is just the stand out brand that punches way above its weight. There are indeed smaller, younger and also older brands that do well. Maen and Erebus for example. And yes, everyone thinks long and hard before dropping any amount of money on anything, let alone an 'accessory' like a watch. Spontaneously buying a Rolex is not really a thing...99% of the time. But work hard, be original, consistent, grow your brand and recognition and you will become ' established' eventually. I don't think there is a precise moment when that happens.
Very much agree.. It's not for nothing that I used them as a reference point in the video. They're doing really well 😃😃
I agree on Baltic, they put out watches in different categories and to me all of them look amazing. Yes, they compromise the price movement wise but therefore they offer a watch that looks and feels premium on the outside. The movements they use will still last longer than a lifetime and thats enough for alot of people.
As a guy with a 6” wrist and more pressing financial goals than a watch, the number of watches out there that I feel I can even consider are limited. While the big watchmakers are gradually moving away from the dinner plate sizes of years ago, there are still only a few options for a, say, 36mm watch in that ~$1000 range. As such, the extra variety offered by the up and coming brands is very welcome, in fact it has helped rejuvenate my interest in watches.
As another guy with a 6" wrist and not a ton of money to spend on a watch, let me recommend Glycine. I recently got a Glycine Combat Sub in 36mm, and it's almost too small, given how thin the case is and how the lugs curve down. The 36mm versions are a bit hard to find, so I went for one from eBay, but Gnomon has a selection for a good bit more than the 42mm ones that Ashford and Jomo carry. I'm also tempted by their Airman GMT watches, which beat Rolex by a year to be the first GMT watches on the market back in the '50s, and are available in a 36mm version to recreate the style of the original.
Seiko Speedtimer is your best friend then!
Check out the Traska 34mm commuter.
@@drpaulporras I'm struggling to choose between the 36 and the 34 😅
The silver lining is your wrist size weeds out 99% of the market! So if you might have an addictive personality you have a natural barrier against ending up with a collection of 30 watches you don't like any more
You’re an outstanding UA-camr for watch content. Well informed and eloquent and classy all together. Keep up the good work.
huge thank you!!! Really !! 😃😃
I was in shopping mode for a Tudor BB58 and ended up buying a Farer Lander GMT after I saw it being blown away by the unique dial and originality. The more you lean into the Microbrand game the more you‘ll love it not be mainstream…
I think that statement rings true for many people 😃😃
This is the second time ever that I've watched a video from you. It is also the second time I'm forced to accept that you're the best watch UA-camr when it comes to offering insightful, smart, reasonable, and concise information. Just wow! You deserve to have a huge platform, hopefully it will get there eventually
Very very kind of you. Thank you so much. 😃😃
I own at least one Baltic, Loirer, Nivada Grenchen, Scurfa, and Brew. Studio Underdog and Sinn are on my hit list too! One of the things I love about Micro Brands is meeting the owners and designers. So accessible and often such good people.
@ronvalentine3578keeping the internet classy!
Just bought a Baltic today !
Between a Traska (scratch resistance big plus), Baltic, ...Maybe Hamilton. Was about to just get a Seiko Alpinist but seeing the Traska reset my shopping completely. Scratch resistance will probably affect my choice.
Mike, another elegant and compelling video where you have weighed and considered the various considerations on each facet of an issue. Well done.
Glad you enjoyed it 😃😃
For me, MAEN, Traska, Echo/Neutra and Serica are doing some fantastic work as micros in the
Yes, those are worthy additions!
Excellent
Good choices 👍👍
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I would love to hear your insight on all of these brands in a head-to-head competition. Maybe pick three at a time to compare, select a class of watch like "diver", and discuss the +/- that each brand offers.
Your strength is your business analysis, much more than your watch reviews or opinions (no offense intended). The business teaching you offer in your videos is invaluable.
None taken 😃😃 - I like to mix things up and there's no doubt where other youtubers have their strengths in reviews, reviews for me are a little more filler content and the business / analysis size of things is my bread and better 😃😃
Wow. One of the first honest and realistic videos I have seen. You hit all the good, bad and pain points. This was very refreshing. Thank you for this level of clarity
Thanks - glad you found it worth your time 😊
My favorite watch channel by far. Things nobody else talks about, fresh topics regularly, no bs.
I try. Thank you 😃😃😃
As you say there is terrific value in the sub 2k market, I recently purchased what is likely to be my most expensive watch (barring a suprise windfall) a Ollech&wajs c-1000 and it is fabulous. Not too long ago I got the chance to buy from Nodus a used sector deep 500 which is also beautiful. For even less money ,although some will look down there noses, a san martin I bought has unbelievable fit and finish. To some extent beyond the 2k I think the law of diminishing returns applies but maybe if I win the lottery this will go right out of the window!
HI Mike. What I like about your topics is that I never feel that I have wasted my time listening to you. Interesting, informative and maturely presented.
Just a thought - If you are sticking to, or restrained by, a dollar limit then there is way to get a better watch for the money - research and patience. Look for overlooked watches that depreciate quickly. I say quickly because that way you will be more likely to get something new or near new. And keep your options open. There are hundreds of thousands of watches for sale at any time so get fishing and find that bargain Tudor for Baltic money.
Thanks - Appreciate that. Trying to do something worth watching at least
Agree on your view. A lot of people go for the new, hyped releases in stead of waiting a bit until you can get a good deal. Also the added benefit of less impulse/mistake purchases where you get caught up in the hype 😃😃
So glad I found this channel. Some of the most sophisticated and well thought out watch commentary I have yet come across.
Funny story: Farer Lander was my grail watch. Spending more than $1,000 seemed and seems like an enormous indulgence, but the design was irresistible. My wife bought it for me for my 50th and I adore it.
Luck you 😃😃😃😃😃😃😃
I think there is a lot that could be learned by watch collecters and watch reviewers about the quality and value of less expensive watches and how they compare to more expensive well known watch brands. Sapphire crystals, stainless steel cases and bracelets, screw down signed crowns, applied indices, quality proven dependable accurate automatic movements, top of the line lume, enamel adventurine or textured dials etc. can all be had in the same watch at the $200.00 - $400.00 price range. Some examples would be Phoibos, Cronos, Seiko, and San Martin.
Orient comes to mind
Farer and Baltic are amazing brands. Farer has a unique design language and high quality standards. Baltic on the other hand offers classic design from vintage pieces of the big brands at an affordable price point without being direct copies and with an mechanical movement. If you want great design on your wrist and don’t care about heritage for every watch you own, these are exceptional choices. Goldberger said, great (dial) design is the most important thing, after that comes provenance and condition (quality). I think this applies here as well.
As a person who likes microbrand, this video is excellent. The way you approach this topic reminds me of how my consultant friends. Forget hiring other youtubers for design input, brands should come to you to help grow their businesses!
At first i thought this was another YT channel pontificating about big watch brands and bashing micro/"budget" brands. As soon as Jody's new brand was mentioned I zeroed in.
Great timing for a perspective on the current shift in the watch market AND putting a finger on the things that seem to be driving it. All while calling out the old snobbery, giving new makers credibility, and offering guidance to all.
Top marks 🤙🏽
Thanks a ton - Glad you gave me a chance 😃😃😃
Well done. I enjoyed your perspective and reflection of the vast inflection points of brands and watches below the $2k mark. Your spot on.
Great channel!
Thanks a ton!!! See you around 😃😃
It's said that you can judge a person by their friends. If that is so then going by the general politeness and positive relevance of the responses to your videos Mike you have attracted some good friends here compared to most other presenters.
Very kind of you to me and my humble community.
People are generally very very polite and reflected here and it's very much the way I'd like to keep it. 😃😃😃
Incredibly well spoken, knowledgeable, and logical. I really like this guy. Bravo!
Very kind of you, thanks 😊😊
This bloke is by far the best out there, he knows his stuff. I'm a big fan of micro brand, owning pieces from Farer, Formex and today I bought a Duckworth. I do own more expensive watches, like a Black Bay 41, but there is much more fun in finding the hidden gems that are out there in the micro brand community...
Very kind of you - Thank you 😊😊
Man. I'm in watches, and your channel has a lot of important information for me. I like you so much, a lot of deep knowledge. Thank you
You're welcome. Glad you find my videos worth your time 😃😃
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch but i will desire more affordable ones with you critic point of view... Thank you
I’m a fan of the micro brand space. I believe you get good value for money as long as you’re happy to buy a timepiece without history! I feel micro brands are great for the watch industry because they push fun and interesting designs that are accessible to more people. I’m hoping to get my clemence Munro in March and tempted with the new zealos black tip!
this is one of the most holistic, objective, and well-written op-eds that I have ever watched. Please keep going mate, we need you! Cheers.
Thanks, will do what I can to keep it up 😃😃
Man I really liked this video and this channel is quickly becoming one of my favourites for really down to earth, level headed discussions and mirror to look at the watch industry especially from a business standpoint. Really interesting and unique within the watch space. Great video.
Thanks a ton 😀😀
I appreciate many cheaper watches from afar, but the reason i don't buy them is that I already have several higher value watches.
When i think about it, I'm unlikely to reach for a cheaper watch when already have nicer watches.
It's a constraint i wish i didn't feel, but now that i have them, I like have something high value on my wrist.
Happens to everybody, including me. The "Why wear my Nomos Tangente when I have a Saxonia?". I should be wearing the expensive watch.
For me it's a hurdle that you get over at some point and start to appreciate those affordable offerings again 😃😃
For me Christopher Ward, Formex, Venezianico are all punching above their weight and producing some fine watches at this price point! Excellent video subject matter…..
Thanks for sharing! 😃
Very logical and consistent presentation. As a watch collector, I learned nothing new but it is really useful for people who want to understand and avoid manipulative marketing of some brands. Just my 2 forints. Zoltan
Thanks for contributing. Yup - I try to bridge both the new watch enthusiast and the more seasoned enthusiast. This video is aimed for the new enthusiast as I got a lot of questions in the last months that circled this topic.
Cheers .😃😃
I think Jack Mason is doing quite well with their Strat-o-timer and Hydrotimer, in particular. I own the former and absolutely love it. The owners are truly engaging with their community on all social media platforms; they listen to their customers, are passionate about what they're doing and are constantly asking the community what watches would they like to see in the future.
Formex make excellent watches for the money I’d say the most watch you can get in that category
They are very compelling, I agree 😃😃
I found your video to be very thoughtful. Also I liked the ironic placement of empty shelves in the background. Normally the shelves have odd knickknacks on them to generate 'visual interest', but you go to the trouble to put up shelves and leave them empty! Well done Sir! I just subscribed!!!
Thanks for the sub 😃😃
1. As always, class pov and a great choice of topic.
2. Similar to high-performance vehicles where the focus is on bhp/ton rather than just top speed or weight, the essence in watches seems to lie in their value for the money-a comparison between value and cash. In this light, the value per dollar seems to diminish significantly beyond the $2000 mark.
3. I have a strong admiration for high-end items from less prestigious brands and budget-friendly pieces from more luxurious brands. It appears that both categories strive to make a statement-the less prestigious brand surpassing expectations, while the higher-end brand delivers quality without the exorbitant cost. Additionally, I assume that for high-end brands, the margin is significantly lower in comparison to their entry-level products. Ultimately, this situation works out favorably for us.
I own a Lorier, Unimatic and a Clemence, but it’s Lorier that has managed to develop its own design language that makes it an attractive visual alternative to entrenched grail watches without being an homage brand. Just hope they manage to pull out more diverse cases across their offering. If the Hyperion had a different case then the Falcon, it would have already been on my wrist. So indeed, it’s a challenge to go pass the plateau of the initial success, as you pointed out, Mike. Great content!
Thanks a ton for the feedback 😀
I think you’ve got some of the Lorier models confused. The Hyperion is most closely related to the Neptune, both are 39mm and have the same case height, lug to lug length, it’s just a smaller crown and a different bracelet. The Falcon shares its case with the Astra as both are 36mm, and other dimensions are the same. But in essence I absolutely agree with you, Lorier are a great example of a microbrand that has done things right, despite the 3 different variations of the Falcon, they’ve grown their model line up, whilst maintaining the ethos of vintage inspired watches from the last century.
Wow, this is one of the best videos I have seen in quite awhile on any topic, never mind wristwatches.
Very very kind of you 😀😀
Nice analysis. There's another point, too, that microbrands can be victims of their own success. By definition they do small runs. I just received a $500 watch I ordered in May. Waiting 6 mo for a $500 watch is ridiculous. This isn't my only watch, but if it were I wouldn't put up with that. There are a few microbrands I was interested in this year but did not buy because the watch I was interested in was not available. In one case I woke up at 1 a.m. for a launch, pressed "buy" 1s after the website was live, and the watch was sold out before the payment window popped up. In contrast that Tissot Sideral you allude to is interesting, quirky, and is a watch I could order online today and it would appear on my doorstep in 3 days. Which would I rather: a one-off watch that isn't available, or a well established brand that delivers an interesting, well-made watch to me, no problem?
@philipblockf2857 I totally agree; sometimes availability can be frustrating. That's one reason I consider Christopher Ward as something more than a micro brand; they have a large catalog and their watches are available.
A lot of in depth content and it didn't feel like a 17 min video! Thank you!
Right up my street.I have two Farers,Jackson Classic Chronograph and Freshwater diver.The CC was above 2k but has a Dubois Depraz module and the colour, quality and finish of both are good value.Went off piste a few years ago and ordered an Ophion Velos with a salmon dial.They are Madrid based and components 30% German 70% Swiss;the owner is honest about everything.Because CNC does the tedious jobs although it was over 3k still think it was good buy I if exclusivity is important mine is #97 and case made by Voutillinan and Caitlin.
Great topic and astute insights. I think the psychology of numbers definitely plays a role; > $500, then > $1000. That’s why stores mark products at values just under whole numbers ‘and 99 cents.’ And $1000 is where people start to look at their weekly pay and calculate what % the watch will eat up.
Own 2 Farers; that Lander with its Milgauss-like dial may be the 3rd.
It's tough these days. 1000$ used to get you a lot more. 10 years back this video would have been about sub 1000, sub 500 watches, but the floor has just been raised.
Thanks for contributing 😃
Another interesting and insightful discussion. I’d personally add Straton and Helm into the low cost, high quality basket.
Thanks! HAve to admit I had not heard of Helm. Will have to check them out 😃😃😃
My sweet spot for spending on watches is around $300-400. I've found many quality watches in that price range, and I especially love my Citizen watches (I have 6 of them). Of course I love all cool watches and I don't turn my nose up at fun, inexpensive offerings from Invicta, which I think gets a lot of unfair hatred.
I bought a great sub-$300 dress watch from Island Watch. They have an impressive stock of styles and brands.
just iscovered your channel ancd watched 3 vids...you're always on point and you're very analytic in your (also pleasing to watch not only to hear) contents! and i agree 100% in what you said here and about other stuff (cartier and longines legend diver). BRAVO!
Thanks for joining the community 😊😊
So,you've been to Warsaw!!
How nice!!
Decent people are always welcome here.
Hope you've enjoyed your visit.
Trzymaj się,mate.
Been to Warsaw many times. Used to work for a company that had offices in "mordor". I aways eat at Concept 13 whenever I'm there
Cheers 😃😃😃
Greek. Doxa = Glory. Yema = Blood. Nomos = Law. Omega, etc. I find it interesting how many different watch brands are using Greek names... As a Greek, I like it. There are clearly many in our hobby who have a great deal of style. Merry Christmas all & Free Bethlehem. ;-)
Free Bethlehem from what/whom?
Free Bethlehem from what/whom?
Free Bethlehem from what/whom?
Free Bethlehem from what/whom?
Free Bethlehem from what/whom?
This channel is like free watchmaking industry business analysis report. Thumbs up
Thanks (I think) 😂😂
Learning a lot from your videos especailly your business/corporate mindset differentiates from other youtubers. Keep sharing your honest views and thoughts on watch industry. Respect👌 Thanks
Thank you! Will do! 😃😃
Mike, Merry Christmas & Happy New year! Every time I watch your channel I am more hooked! You are enlightening me/us what truly makes a great watch at every price point. I was not aware of the compromises that watch makers are forced to make until you made it obvious. As a result, you have carved out your own unique niche which gets me to return and continue my watch education. The one point you did not mention, but more collectors look for, is how well a watch/brand holds value. Meaning if you spend $1,000 or more, will the collector be able to resell the watch at a price point that is close to the $1,000. Else, it may be a better to buy the watch on the pre-owned market at a lower price then retail.
Ironically, many of the points you made about the smaller watch brands competing at the $1,000 and less price point can be said for your UA-cam channel, and you are already at 12,000 subscribers (and 35,000 views for this video alone) just by word of mouth! Keep up the great work!
Glad you enjoy my approach. Just trying to do my own thing and happy people find it worth their time
Happy new years 😀😀
Your videos are really good, and I enjoy them tremendously - you always present a very thoughtful distillation of the importance of design and design language, and the many factors that influence its development over time. Yours has become one of my favorite watch channels. Thanks for posting.
Thanks a ton for the kind words 😃😃
I would agree with all of that. I own a Farer, it was an expensive purchase but feels very much premium, but as you say, lots of competition in this bracket. I think where Microbrands win is by producing watches that are unique, that aren't just another seiko/tissot clone. I think some other good watch companies in this area are Phoibos, Zelos and Vario, you could also add Jack Mason.
I really start liking your content a lot! What I'm thinking right now (and might be biased) is that even if your are aware of brands like Baltic, once you have bought a watch from a more reputable brand you might feel like taking a step back when then buying a micro brand watch. And then the thought process kicks in and it might end up with: why not saving a bit longer and getting a BB Pro or whatever instead
Also, the, say, Black Bay Pro I can sell again at little loss .. but what do I do if I were to sell my "unknown" watch brand watch?
Thank you!!
Agree. Once you get bit by the brand bug, you do risk ignoring "non-big- brand" offerings 😃😃
My problem with all modern watches in the $500-2000 bracket is that I find vintage and especially neo-vintage offers way better value for my tastes.
Exhibit A: 90s Eterna triple calendar moonphase chronograph in 18k gold for under $2k.
Sub-$500 I still reckon there are modern bargains to be found especially when heavily discounted, e.g. the smaller Quartz PRX and the Tissot Seastar with thermocompensated movement around $175-250 and the Zodiac Olympos Automatic which is pretty unique-looking for $400.
But I'm probably not a typical watch buyer - I don't care about specs, I like yellow gold and I'll happily wear watches down to 30mm.
We definitely think (and collect) alike!
No doubt that if you dive into vintage, there's a whole new world of options out there for sure 😃😃
Thanks for this and your other videos. So many insights delivered with clarity and ease… a real treat to find you on YT. I’m a fan of Baltic and Farer and see Christopher Ward some great designs and value.
Wow, thank you! 😃
Really informative video. I felt as if I was being educated , rather than just being sold another watch.
That's what I was aiming for, so thank you 😀😀
Affordable watches are the catnip gateway drug that can eventually lead to Swiss 🇨🇭bankruptcy. Merry Christmas 🎄 Mike!😎
Or not. After a few Seikos, I moved to Breitling, Omega and Rolex level. Then realized that was quite a lot of money and that there was no correlation between price tag and enjoyment. My most expensive watches are a Tudor BlackBay 58 and a GS quartz GMT, which I both enjoy wearing but don’t get the lion’s share of the wrist time.
I feel more comfortable operating at Scurfa / Sinn / Formex / Citizen The Citizen level. I could sell the more expensive stuff and not miss it that much, but the idea of losing 30% when selling to Watchfinder is enough to make me keep them.
@@jeanlefranc3817 agreed 👍 I wear my affordables more than my Rolex.
Lol. For some it does lead to escalating purchases. Happened to me (not bankruptcy though). Currently, I am very much back in the lower price range finding huge value.
😃😃
Hi Mike, great topic!
There are a ton of sub $2000 Watches out there as you pointed out. Brands I have always kept my eye on are some that you have mentioned like Yema who were a bit wobbly in the past but, recently have developed their own in house anti magnetic and shock resistant 70hr power reserve movement which looks quite impressive, Marathon who issue their GSAR (Government Search And Rescue) Watches to the American, Canadian and Israeli Forces, CWC who have been making Watches to Military specifications since 1972, Nivada Grenchen whose Chronomaster Aviator Sea Diver Chronograph really looks the part with its vintage aesthetic, Vaer Watches who pay tribute to classics like the Hamilton field Watches at just a couple of hundred dollars, Maen Watches coming out of Sweden with their stunning looking Skymaster 38 Chronograph, Isotope Watches with their Hydrium Nordblad Diver used by record breaking Finnish Women’s free diver Johanna Nordblad, not to mention Doxa Watches in this price range, Out Of Order Watches from Italy with their colourful ‘Shaker’ collection of GMT Watches that remind me of Studio Underd0g’s colour palettes, Serica Watches out of Paris with their California dial 6190 field Watch on its ‘Bonklip’ bracelet as well as their quirky 5303 Diver that reminds me of my Tudor P01.
I like so many ‘Budget Brands’ and would be happy to wear them rather than expensive Watches in the current climate of Watch crime that we unfortunately live in. They have so much to offer to the Watch enthusiast and a very wearable collection of Watches covering all bases from Sinn and brands you have talked about can be enjoyed for the price of a luxury Watch.
Again, another great video Mike. Have a very Happy Christmas 🎄 and an even better 2024 my friend. ✊
You on speed? The old Billy wiz??
im not a watch enthusiast nor a watch collector, I only have 2 watches though and were given from by loved ones. With this channel, looks like i'll be starting to collect watches now.
Lol. My apologies for getting you into this... 😂😂
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch At least you're not pushing something expensive like model trains. Have you any idea how much it costs to buy a new house because the one you've got hasn't got enough space for the trains? At least watches don't take up much space.
Fantastic video, I really enjoyed this! I've worked with quite an amount of Microbrands (and still do). I also get people 'starting' watch brands get in touch with me, asking how they can sell 150 units on their first drop without a marketing budget (yes, that is an actual conversation that i've had). Some microbrands also don't fully appreciate the importance of effective marketing - the ones that do, always do very well. Another key issue i've found over 3 years of marketing watches (and nothing else), is that everything is so different from generic marketing. Time to buy is a major consideration, and because new start / brands in their infancy don't fully appreciate these nuances they don't invest in top of funnel / new customer attraction. It's a vicious cycle at times.
Thanks for sharing - It's appreciated 👍👍
I have the recently released Christopher Ward C60 Atoll 300 in Reef Blue. It’s a stunning watch and a great company to deal with!
Exactly 😃😃
Thanks for such a thoughtful video Mike. For me I'm quite satisfied with Christopher Ward and Monta being the top end of my range and both are sub $2K.
Glad you enjoyed it! 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Also subscribed.
My very first watch after seriously getting into watch collection was Astor & Banks ranger and it was a preowned. I absolutely loved it knowing it had SW200 and I've never owned swiss movement watch. Microbrands are so easy to start as a beginner.
During my passionate watch journey so far I purchased quite a few under 1000€ watches. I ended up selling all of them over time except one, which I ended up gifting to my father. As you said it, there is always a compromise when buying cheap and as is the case with everything in life: Over the years you start to appreciate the inner values more and more...
For me, Christopher Ward is the best example by far ☘️
Very much agree. Thanks for contributing 😃😃
Great discussion, Mike. There's no question that the big boys have advantages when it comes to scale. But I think it's worth noting that increases in quality and technical superiority between small, independent brands and large established brands is incremental in nature while the difference in price is exponential. For instance, let's compare a Rolex Submariner with a Christopher Ward Trident 300. There is no way to argue that the Sub isn't the superior watch. However, is it twice as good? That might be fair, depending on your point of view, but there is a 10x price difference. Now, to some, the provenance, prestige, and reputation is worth that huge premium, and if you can afford it, good for you. I reside happily in the sub $2000.00 watch space and am very happy with the many high quality options available there. There are lots of great options that do not require you to take out a second mortgage to purchase them.
Very good point. There's no doubt that you're at some point paying a price premium that far outweighs the improvement in quality - I've said in other videos that I generally feel the "linear/parallel" relationship between price and quality starts to disappear after 4-5K.
Go above 15K and that correlation is effectively gone
Thanks for sharing - hugely appreciated 😃😃
I would place Nodus as a cut above the rest. The quality of the build plus design (despite the compromises) has resulted in a formidable brand with prices peaking at around $700 (collabs excluded).
wow i just find my favorite watch expert youtuber way to go buddy great job we your channel
thank you 😀
Very, very interesting discussion. Perhaps your best thus far, methinks. Too many good points to list. You make an interesting point about the plethura of watch brands under $1K USD, yet I was bit surprised at your inclusion of Erebus as it is brand new, and a Chinese manufacture as are literally hundreds of other micros. I see your point re: watch UA-camrs launching brands, a phenom that leaves me cold, yet obviously is working for Jody and TGV, to name just two. For my own $.02, I'd add Nivada Grenchen, CWC, Smiths and Marathon as companies with long histories and legitimate backstories in the military field and dive watch segment. I'm one of those guys "coded" to think this is important. For me, if I see someone buying one of these new UA-cam micros, I instantly think he (or she) is an easily influenced, empty vessel. Why, really, does someone buy a watch from Jody as opposed to buying one with some history and pedigree? I just don't get it. Jody does great videos that I enjoy, and I wish him well, but I'd like my watches to have a firmer base than one man's talent in front of a camera. As far as successful, new brands, I fully agree on Baltic. Baltic is doing remarkably refined designs with innovations (their Hermatique!) at eye catching prices, at least for me. In any event, well done, and thanks for the food for thought.
I Agree .
Aren't N.G.& Smith's existing brands who have been bought by others years down the line ?
I bought two old/ new stock Seiko 5s instead of a CW 63 36mm as I'd really like an OP and the CW is a fifth of the price of the Rolex so in five years..hopefully...( unless CW improves their movement).
@@jaysterling26 Could be! Businesses change often. And I think someone trying to carry on a heritage brand is better than none at all. Watches are symbols, not just a fashion statement or a "good look" or a tool, at least to me. And I'd like my symbols to have some meaning, however thin. I get you on the Seiko 5's, good choice! All the best.
Thanks. Appreciated 😂
Also good thoughts on your side as well. No doubt that the YT platform is giving individuals a way to launch brands that otherwise likely never see the light of day. For me the jury is still out on whether or not that's a good thing - but ultimately: All the power to them. If people want them, they'll buy them 😃😃😃
Christopher Ward, although some of their iconic watches are over 2k.
Searching for a 4hz watch, with date at 6 done nicely in a dial colour. Is there anything that beats Christopher Ward for the same price? Tissot is 3hz, Longines costs much more.
Definitely a contender for value winner for sure 😃😃
This is one of the best made watch [commentary] videos I’ve ever seen!
Very kind of you - thank you 😊😊
There are two things that drive me to buy mechanical watches:
1)I value the ability to be disconnected and not have to worry about batteries/charging or looking at another digital display.
2) GADA watches that can work well with a suit for a wedding, work conferences/meetings, travel or in the backcountry fishing and camping. That means it has to look good and be reliable.
For my money - Sinn is the best brand I’ve found that makes high quality watches I can trust. I found a steal of a deal on an older 857 UTC with the ETA movement and it’s been amazing.
I get about +.5 /spd at the moment, which is better than a Rolex. Now, would I take a Rolex Explorer II if given to me? Yes! Will the functionality be better? No. Not for 10x what I paid.
I have a watch, it tells time well, it has the date, it has a second time zone. That’s all I want.
You nailed it - as usual. I was pulled into the enthusiast watch world after wearing my wife’s family’s Cartier Santos Carree for decades and then learning more about it and other luxury watches in the last year or so. My first watch purchases during this learning phase were inexpensive exploratory purchases at less than $150 (Casio, MWC, Timex). After figuring out what I liked, I made plans for my first nice watch. I skipped over the $500-4000 price block because I wanted to save for something I would enjoy for a lifetime and not just have a new toy. My Pelagos 39 is perfect for me and hopefully an Explorer 40 is next. Timeless designs with history and bullet proof build quality is what I’m looking for. I’m willing to save more and wait longer to get that.
Thanks! Super relevant perspective you have. There is definitely a lot of merit to holding off until you get the watch and the watch quality you truly want ... 😃😃
TUSENÖ is my new favourite micro brand. I bought the orange Windseeker and got hooked. I preordered the new white V2 Shellback and looking forward to receive it. The backside of micro brands is that they are making watches in small and limited batches which sells out to fast.
Discovered now this channel. And as enthusiast of watches I will follow it!!. Great videos.
Welcome aboard! 😃😃
holy sh*t just heard you talk 17min straight of sane, honest, down to earth economics of the watch industry and found it fascinating (Subscribed). I have a farer, boldr... a rolex, and some in between. Love them all. But good microbrands are absolutely great watch brands.
Lol.... Words my wife has never said... 😂😂😂
Thank you 😃
hahaha here im thinking how to buy a $120 watch man tou have to be a millionaire to afford being a watch collector
What watch are you wearing there? Do you have a review on it?
It's a Royal Oak Chrono (26331st) from my personal collection. I haven't reviewed it but may do at some point. 😀
The best video on watch industry so far! Brilliant job.
Thanks a lot 😊😊
I just started with the Hobby and assembled a small collection for just under 2000€. Mostly brands like tissot / Seiko and a few micro brands. The price point you said, where serious cost cutting steps need to be taken. For One watch. Iam now looking at an original design San Martin watch. Ceramic bezel, with intricate cutouts that are perfectly painted, highest grade of lume, perfectly enamel dial, applied indizes, on the fly adjustable clasp that works as good as rolex system ( i have tried both) and basically all the specs you named. Additionally the Seiko Movement hast been running +1 Seconds as long as I have owned it. That watch cost me 200€ delivered and Iam sure San Martin still makes a pretty penny on every watch they send out. Iam aware that it is a chinese brand but it still makes that argument of "cost cutting" beyond 1000€ seem like a bit of a joke.
Sounds like you're putting some thought into your purchase. Good! Enjoy your watches .😃
Monta is an excellent brand in this price range
Agree! 😃
Micros simply didn't exist when I bought my first automatic watch 25 years ago.
To come back to the world of watches after 25 years was like coming from the Dark Ages to 2023.
The first shock was the perceived cachet of Rolex and Patek Philipe - these were considered nouveau riche, up-start brands who had to advertise in in-flight magazines. Rolex, in particular, was worn by working class men who were cabbies, upholsterers, and market traders - men who played membership dues at golf clubs because it was perceived as a high-status activity.
Second shock was the rise of micros. Personally, I only wear microbrands.
I've been patronising Marloe for about two years. Very happy - unique designs, great quality and customer service.
A couple of years ago I decided that micro brands were desirable to me. Supporting them with my hard earned cash and getting unique fresh designs in return seemed like a win-win. I started with a Stella Watch Company piece because they had a New York story and a funky, yet classic aesthetic. I then purchased a Farer Chrono - lovely piece. This year I purchased a Formex Essence 39 - after it surprised me after trying it on at WindUp. Bought a second one as I was able to procure a color splash model. In the midst of all this I honored my 65th birthday with an Omega Aqua Terra in Summer Blue. My point is? Well, I have no point. I’m on the waiting list for an Explorer 36, but the feeling like I have to kiss the ring of the AD is wearing thin…. You’re making me think about how many thousands I’ve been throwing around. May be time for that Casio😂
In my opinion there are 4 brands that deliver the best watches between 500 and 2000 EUR. Hamilton, Mido, Seiko, Squale.
I would really like to buy the micro rotor Baltic but I simply can’t because it does not have a sapphire crystal.
That and the movement is not a prominent one.... I'm not scared buying seikos movements or sellita/eta. That chinese micro rotor is scary.
I love Squale for their story and value for money and because they’re independent family owned brand
Squale would be my fave among those for sure.... 😃
Mate, put something on that empty shelves 🙁
I'm also concerned about the unframed mike poster.
Check my other videos... There's usually something there. Wife had been dusting and hadn't put the things back, and I didn't notice 😃😃
I just found your channel. You did an excellent job of explaining how things work in a realistic view.
Thanks - Glad you took the time to watch 😃😃
I think the massive advantage big brands have over the microbrands is that i can go to the shopping mall or close by big stores to actually try SOME of the watches on, compared to these microbrands where i cant really say for certain if it will fit me, be confortable, have the brand's connection in case i want to send it for repair, etc. Looking at something and thinking it looks great, while actually TRYING on that thing makes a massive diffrence. It wouldn't be the case but watches are pretty savings-account diving for something thats basically a toy, when you see a car, you need to at least sit on it, a perfume, you need to at least try it, and for watches you do need to put it on and see if it activates your neurons up, blind buying it and only to disapoint you is a big risk in certain contexts.
Also, most watches enthusiasts know that 5 times a 1000 ish watch gets you a very large choice of luxury and great watches
True... and 50 times gets you a piece unique, one of a kind hand made creation 😃😃
Rolex Submariner is an 1250$ watch. If any conformist is willing to pay 1000% markup, that's fine, but a lot of microbrands offer great value for cost.
Zelos for example has an evergrowing fan base.
Maranez / Helson / Armida / Gruppo Gamma / Nethuns offer great choices for larger humanoids, without the silly costs associated with Panerai and their post ETA shabby in-house movements.
So spot on. I tend to like Mido as much I like Tissot but I feel inclined to fancy these micro brands you mentioned here too.
Thanks - There's a lot of good options from those microbrands for sure 😃😃
Baltic are a great entry level/gateway option! Micro-rotor for under $700 is pretty amazing!