Yeah I love it. Kinda pitty it's always the same guy playing the reckless one...if I ever meet him on the rocks I'll be having hard time to lead anything with him in a team...movie or not :D
It's really horrific, I climb for almost four years now, and I have seen so many people making significant mistakes with the GriGri. Most of them are the old ones, who learned belaying with the munter hitch and then switched to the GriGri. They grab the device with their whole hand or hold up the belay-side of the rope. If you try to tell them, that their belaying tecnique is dangerous, you just get an: "I have bin doing it this way for 20 years now, and nothing ever happend." -.-'
You are dead on, no pun intended. I started climbing in Idaho in 1977 and that included belaying with a Munter Hitch...the only way I knew/know how. It has literally been decades since I've done any climbing requiring belaying and I'm willing to insult my ego by freely admitting that my inclination would be to operate any belay device as if it was "the old way." Hopefully if called upon to belay a climber I'll be self aware enough to either learn the right way, employ the practiced and familiar method, in my case Munter Hitch, or just say no.
I find it interesting that all the demos are with brand new slick and perhaps a bit thinner ropes. I want to see demos with the ropes in a typical condition of a regularly used rope.
Serious and potentially dangerous translation mistake on Spanish subtitles: "spotting" in the climbing world means "portear", not "observar" (which means just "observe, watch, look out"). To care for safety you have to care for translation, so please correct that!!! Apart from that, the translation's quality is very good.
Georg Jiří Überall yeah, and at the crags are always only very clever people around... And the natural rock is of course way more predictable than the man made gyms you are most likely always climbing in when you say something stupid like this.
I tried paying out with the brake hand using the ridge (your second technique). It was very fiddly so I ended up reverting to tube techniques (the first technique you show). I did find in dummy fall testing (partner on the ground yanking the rope) that when I had the ridge technique it braked reliably even though with part of my braking hand on the device I feel I have less hold of the brake side than my normal holding position with brake hand pulling the brake rope back.
Reaching up to clip the rope in a quickdraw is not advisable since it puts too much slack in the rope. Better to clip when you are level with the protection.
+Davide Roverso You're generally right, but if you are talking about the scene at 02:52 she's at the first bolt and it doesn't make much difference (if she falls she would deck anyway, no?) ;)
+nic.bar Completely agree! Anyway, the most important thing is probably to clip from a comfortable stance. Better to clip high when comfortable then clipping at the right height but in an awkward position.
If you were using a standard atc belay, needed to deal with a knot in the rope, and therefore needed to tie the rope off, as shown in the video, would you tie the rope off in the same way? Considering the carabiners are completely different....
I've seen figure 8 knots put in, ether onto the carabiner or on a bight. The figure 8 can't pass through the belay device. On the carabiner it's stuck to the carabiner.
QUESTION: If I'm top-rope climbing with a very inexperienced belayer, is it safer to use an ATC or the GriGri? The answer should be "GriGri!", as long as they use normal belaying technique with their brake hand ALWAYS on the rope. If something happens where the belayer panics and takes his hands off the rope, then the GriGri's automatic cam acts as a backup. The way the GriGri can fail is if the belayer grabs the whole device or lifts the lowering cam.
I'm teaching my son and have a friend holding the tail of the rope. He can apply the brake force if needed. So far he hasn't needed to. It seems a safe way though. We're teaching him on the ATC because it enforces proper technique.
This video is only about lead belaying, not toprope belaying, but when it shows the belayer taking in rope at 5:40, it shows them using a simplified technique rather than PBUS. People should learn PBUS, not this simplified method, which works fine with a grigri but is unsafe with a tube-style device. Muscle memory is a limited resource.
Is the gaswerks method the new standard? My gym sells classes with thay method and likes it to be used more but i have to go deep on the internet to find people instructing it.
Just got my Grigri.. and while i understand everything that has been showed, i just can’t seem to be able to do it right. Firstly, paying out slack keeps activating the cam and locks the rope no matter how much curve i form. The fast method of pressing down on the cam works fine though. Secondly when doing the lowering as shown in the video, with the finger in the finger catch and 3 fingers wrapped around the brake end rope, i get serious rope burns on those 3 fingers as the rope slides while i lower. What exactly did i do wrong may i know? Ended up being so ineffective.
Don’t worry, pal: it’s just a matter of practice. The more you will do it, the better you will get at it. Also, be sure you ask a trainer or an experienced guide in a gym for advice. They will be able to let you find your most suitable belaying technique!
For paying out slack, the rope thickness and cleanliness of the rope can make a huge difference. If the rope is 10.5mm or bigger or very dirty, it will be difficult to pay out slack without using your right hand to push down on the cam. And for lowering, try having your belay hand down by your leg. There is no need to have that belay hand on the device when lowering.
When tying off the rope when leader is on tension would the use of a smaller carabiner to lock off the knot be hazardous? I could see a smaller clip be able to slip through the knot and a the carabiner attacking the grigri to your harness.
@@kylenakamura4353 I think Petzl recommends to use D shaped carabiners to prevent your carabiner from rotating. This prevents cross-loading on the weak minor axis of the carabiner.
I use a DMM ceros locksafe carabner with my Grigri. It has a small "horn" that doesn't allow the grigri to ever cross-load and belay loop clips into the bottom keeping things always oriented the right way. The tripple autolocking feature takes a little getting used to but after a few gym sessions I don't even think about it anymore. I recommend looking into it.
The knot from 09:04 it really works ? If you pull the rope from the gri gri side the knot will be undone. That knot is useless, is not redundant for blocking the rope to have hands free.
Not a true mule hitch, which Id prefer to use (since it also works with an ATC) but given the minimal friction needed to get the grigri to bite and autobrake, I can see why a simple slippery overhand blocked by a carabiner would be ok.
Your Belay demonstration at 03:13 takes place on the exact wall that Petzl used to edit their original video. ua-cam.com/video/i6EzpBaKYTs/v-deo.htmlm59s Did you also edit out your original footage? where did this clip art footage come from that you are all usinging>
Use a redirect so you're not taking the full weight of the fall. So you'll be facing your master point, not the climber. Then becomes a top rope as if you are on the ground, but now with one very short rope length.
@@jonettang Listen closely to what is said: "Clip the loop, to prevent the knot from coming undone", nothing about "locking" the rope to something, it's only to keep the knot in place. Look how the thing doesn't move a bit with him not touching the rope at all.
Wardog11111 Well I know I wouldn't want to climb with you, and that Nina Caprez is still alive and well after clipping wrong all this time. But then again, she did trust her life in the world's worst belayer.
Glenn Johnson, ...common but still completely unnecessary. Not recommended or required by neither Petzl, Beal or other manufacturers either. In rope access, it’s discouraged. British Mountaineering Council has reluctantly recommended (whilst admitting that it isn’t really necessary) a stopper knot as they have concerns that the tail may not be long enough when climber gets sloppy. What’s not cool is adding unnecessary stuff which isn’t required nor serves any good purpose, thinking it is unsafe if you don’t. You’re arguing to back up a figure 8 with an inferior knot... how do you back up an alpine butterfly? How would you back up a double overhand knot? You don’t... A stopper knot after the figure 8 makes it cluttered and actually more difficult to inspect. If you’re worried about, or unable to tie a figure 8 correctly and your partner can’t spot it or do it, then climbing might not be for you. If you’re using a bowline though, sure! A bowline needs a stopper knot (or a correctly done Yosemite finish), a figure 8 does not.
Help. I am afraid of heights. However, based on this video, it appears that all women climbers, well at least those that use Petzl gear, are stunningly beautiful. Should I take up climbing or not ?
Those staged falls are a thing of beauty...
Yeah I love it. Kinda pitty it's always the same guy playing the reckless one...if I ever meet him on the rocks I'll be having hard time to lead anything with him in a team...movie or not :D
It's not staged. The climber broke her funny bone.
The Danger Belay Man has a serious vibe going.
Great video. Thanks for a demonstration of good techniques.
6:14 holy...
Finally a great instructional video on this. Thanks! I'm off to take my test!
Belay's are need to be trained too ! So , enjoying all the fun !
It's really horrific, I climb for almost four years now, and I have seen so many people making significant mistakes with the GriGri.
Most of them are the old ones, who learned belaying with the munter hitch and then switched to the GriGri. They grab the device with their whole hand or hold up the belay-side of the rope.
If you try to tell them, that their belaying tecnique is dangerous, you just get an: "I have bin doing it this way for 20 years now, and nothing ever happend." -.-'
You are dead on, no pun intended. I started climbing in Idaho in 1977 and that included belaying with a Munter Hitch...the only way I knew/know how. It has literally been decades since I've done any climbing requiring belaying and I'm willing to insult my ego by freely admitting that my inclination would be to operate any belay device as if it was "the old way." Hopefully if called upon to belay a climber I'll be self aware enough to either learn the right way, employ the practiced and familiar method, in my case Munter Hitch, or just say no.
One word: complacency
I have seen a seen like that ....this is the reason why I'm watching this video.
I find it interesting that all the demos are with brand new slick and perhaps a bit thinner ropes. I want to see demos with the ropes in a typical condition of a regularly used rope.
Anyone catch the hold breaking at 2:08?
Serious and potentially dangerous translation mistake on Spanish subtitles: "spotting" in the climbing world means "portear", not "observar" (which means just "observe, watch, look out").
To care for safety you have to care for translation, so please correct that!!!
Apart from that, the translation's quality is very good.
Hello. We have done the modifications. Thank you for your feedbacks! Best regards
They are wearing helmets indoors, but not outdoors? Really Petzl?
Nothing like quality, quality and quality!! Oui!
the risk of having SOMEONE fall on your head is much higher indoors, because there can be a lot of (stupid) people
Georg Jiří Überall yeah, and at the crags are always only very clever people around... And the natural rock is of course way more predictable than the man made gyms you are most likely always climbing in when you say something stupid like this.
4:15, great showing what you are not supposed to do, luckily they where using a grigri which is more forgiving.
Very good
I tried paying out with the brake hand using the ridge (your second technique). It was very fiddly so I ended up reverting to tube techniques (the first technique you show).
I did find in dummy fall testing (partner on the ground yanking the rope) that when I had the ridge technique it braked reliably even though with part of my braking hand on the device I feel I have less hold of the brake side than my normal holding position with brake hand pulling the brake rope back.
Nina’s accent is so cute.
🙄
Reaching up to clip the rope in a quickdraw is not advisable since it puts too much slack in the rope. Better to clip when you are level with the protection.
+Davide Roverso You're generally right, but if you are talking about the scene at 02:52 she's at the first bolt and it doesn't make much difference (if she falls she would deck anyway, no?) ;)
+nic.bar Completely agree! Anyway, the most important thing is probably to clip from a comfortable stance. Better to clip high when comfortable then clipping at the right height but in an awkward position.
Nina on sighted the Shadow!
what is the rope doing at 1:07
Blowing in the wind? Maybe an updraft?
Super video 😁
If you were using a standard atc belay, needed to deal with a knot in the rope, and therefore needed to tie the rope off, as shown in the video, would you tie the rope off in the same way? Considering the carabiners are completely different....
I've seen figure 8 knots put in, ether onto the carabiner or on a bight. The figure 8 can't pass through the belay device. On the carabiner it's stuck to the carabiner.
QUESTION: If I'm top-rope climbing with a very inexperienced belayer, is it safer to use an ATC or the GriGri? The answer should be "GriGri!", as long as they use normal belaying technique with their brake hand ALWAYS on the rope. If something happens where the belayer panics and takes his hands off the rope, then the GriGri's automatic cam acts as a backup. The way the GriGri can fail is if the belayer grabs the whole device or lifts the lowering cam.
I'm teaching my son and have a friend holding the tail of the rope. He can apply the brake force if needed. So far he hasn't needed to. It seems a safe way though.
We're teaching him on the ATC because it enforces proper technique.
2:48 it’s not backclipped?
Looks like it. Came here to say that too
This video is only about lead belaying, not toprope belaying, but when it shows the belayer taking in rope at 5:40, it shows them using a simplified technique rather than PBUS. People should learn PBUS, not this simplified method, which works fine with a grigri but is unsafe with a tube-style device. Muscle memory is a limited resource.
PBUS is strictly an American teaching, Europe uses a hand-over-hand method
at 02:48 she back clips on a quick draw
No she doesn’t, bud.
@@caffpillzAre you sure ?
Is the gaswerks method the new standard? My gym sells classes with thay method and likes it to be used more but i have to go deep on the internet to find people instructing it.
Just got my Grigri.. and while i understand everything that has been showed, i just can’t seem to be able to do it right. Firstly, paying out slack keeps activating the cam and locks the rope no matter how much curve i form. The fast method of pressing down on the cam works fine though. Secondly when doing the lowering as shown in the video, with the finger in the finger catch and 3 fingers wrapped around the brake end rope, i get serious rope burns on those 3 fingers as the rope slides while i lower. What exactly did i do wrong may i know? Ended up being so ineffective.
Don’t worry, pal: it’s just a matter of practice. The more you will do it, the better you will get at it. Also, be sure you ask a trainer or an experienced guide in a gym for advice. They will be able to let you find your most suitable belaying technique!
For paying out slack, the rope thickness and cleanliness of the rope can make a huge difference. If the rope is 10.5mm or bigger or very dirty, it will be difficult to pay out slack without using your right hand to push down on the cam. And for lowering, try having your belay hand down by your leg. There is no need to have that belay hand on the device when lowering.
Was that Lynn hill?
When tying off the rope when leader is on tension would the use of a smaller carabiner to lock off the knot be hazardous? I could see a smaller clip be able to slip through the knot and a the carabiner attacking the grigri to your harness.
i have seen
Why use an HMS carabiner with a grigri?
According to your own recommendations (and common sense) HMS style carabiners aren't the best choice
What's wrong with HMS + Grigri?
@@kylenakamura4353 I think Petzl recommends to use D shaped carabiners to prevent your carabiner from rotating. This prevents cross-loading on the weak minor axis of the carabiner.
I use a DMM ceros locksafe carabner with my Grigri. It has a small "horn" that doesn't allow the grigri to ever cross-load and belay loop clips into the bottom keeping things always oriented the right way. The tripple autolocking feature takes a little getting used to but after a few gym sessions I don't even think about it anymore. I recommend looking into it.
The knot from 09:04 it really works ? If you pull the rope from the gri gri side the knot will be undone.
That knot is useless, is not redundant for blocking the rope to have hands free.
Not a true mule hitch, which Id prefer to use (since it also works with an ATC) but given the minimal friction needed to get the grigri to bite and autobrake, I can see why a simple slippery overhand blocked by a carabiner would be ok.
Your Belay demonstration at 03:13 takes place on the exact wall that Petzl used to edit their original video.
ua-cam.com/video/i6EzpBaKYTs/v-deo.htmlm59s
Did you also edit out your original footage? where did this clip art footage come from that you are all usinging>
Someone make a left handed gri gri, please 😭
6:14 damn...... 😬😬
LOL!!!! Soooo Funny...Bun not... :(
Thx Petzl !
Почему у них страхующий не на самостраховке?
Hey can I use the grigi from the top as well
yuh
Use a redirect so you're not taking the full weight of the fall. So you'll be facing your master point, not the climber. Then becomes a top rope as if you are on the ground, but now with one very short rope length.
who wrote that script?
what are you talking about? I about you so preety> tak ładna po polsku
5:31
Great video. I know this is an instructional video but there is a major flaw at 9'15". Let me know what it is. It is very subtle!
Enlighten the world with your wisdom, mysterious stranger!
OMG, the LOCKING carabiner in the video, um, is not LOCKED!
@@jonettang Listen closely to what is said: "Clip the loop, to prevent the knot from coming undone", nothing about "locking" the rope to something, it's only to keep the knot in place. Look how the thing doesn't move a bit with him not touching the rope at all.
Wrong carabiner you are looking at. The one where the Grigri is attached to!
@@jonettang Ah ok, yeah it's a bit too open, didn't notice.
Riyalli supper
05:22 - beautiful girl 💔
holy sh** the music and video is scary hahaha
Я бы там тоже полазил 🤣
Y'en a 1 dans la vidéo, je n'aimerai pas qu'il m'assure lol !! 😅😅
didnt she backclip at 2:52?
MidgetGretzky52614 Looks like it yes
Wardog11111 But then in the next shot it's clipped correctly I think
MidgetGretzky52614 No, pause the video 2:48 and take a closer look
rich liang Yes, that is backclipped
Wardog11111 Well I know I wouldn't want to climb with you, and that Nina Caprez is still alive and well after clipping wrong all this time. But then again, she did trust her life in the world's worst belayer.
a screw-lock carabiner isn't allowed anymore 1:41
what is recommended now?
No stopper knot on the fig-8 tie in?
Not necessary... sufficient tail is more than enough. The idea of tying a stopper knot together with a figure 8 have krept over from a bowline.
i climbed a lot in the 90's with no stopper but local climbing wall insists on this for safe practice now.
If you can tie a knot you must have enough tail, thats why it krept over, unlike a bowline where it is actually mandatory to make one.
Glenn Johnson, ...common but still completely unnecessary. Not recommended or required by neither Petzl, Beal or other manufacturers either. In rope access, it’s discouraged.
British Mountaineering Council has reluctantly recommended (whilst admitting that it isn’t really necessary) a stopper knot as they have concerns that the tail may not be long enough when climber gets sloppy.
What’s not cool is adding unnecessary stuff which isn’t required nor serves any good purpose, thinking it is unsafe if you don’t. You’re arguing to back up a figure 8 with an inferior knot... how do you back up an alpine butterfly? How would you back up a double overhand knot? You don’t...
A stopper knot after the figure 8 makes it cluttered and actually more difficult to inspect. If you’re worried about, or unable to tie a figure 8 correctly and your partner can’t spot it or do it, then climbing might not be for you.
If you’re using a bowline though, sure! A bowline needs a stopper knot (or a correctly done Yosemite finish), a figure 8 does not.
JAKA PIĘKNA JESTEŚ > ZAKOCHAŁEM SIĘ W TOBIE
Comment
I have so often watched people "do it wrong". They most of the time are reluctant to take good advice. Break a neck...
atc gang here
Help. I am afraid of heights. However, based on this video, it appears that all women climbers, well at least those that use Petzl gear, are stunningly beautiful. Should I take up climbing or not ?
The conclusion is simple: Grigri is not suitable for lead belaying. Do not belay a leader with it.
???
Hard to understand her English , I’m sorry.
7:39 the belayer releases his break hand -_-
he's using a hand over hand technique which isn't taught anymore, but is still safe. there is always one hand on the brake rope.
2:45 clipped the wrong way.
Nope
John Rioux look closely. Always from the Rock to you. Not the other way around😉
@@maxzellner5569 nope. that would be back clipping. it's you to the rock.
Oops you‘re right🤦♂️. But it‘s wrong at that point in the video anyway.
Forget it. It seems I should get my Eyes checked. I was wrong. Sorry about that.
Step 1 sell your grigri Step 2 get a tube style belay device and enjoy your climb.
Wrong !!! GriGri 2 GriGri Plus takes 8.5 to 11mm wow wrong facts get your info straight
Indeed you're right ! The video has been produced before the invention of GRIGRI+ and the brand new GRIGRI
they are all wearing helmets... indoors....