You don't imagine how useful it is for a boulderer like me trying to get into sport climbing! I have taken lessons with a qualified instructor first, but these video are a huge plus to my climbing knowledge.
@@bjrnvogelaar7497 100% this. Always take a quick belaying course. Hard is Easy is great for if you already know some stuff but its not a replacement for real-life guidance from a certified instructor
Forgot to mention that force measurements in the beginning were done just to demonstrate that you can't hold much if your brake hand is up. They are NOT accurate due to errors in measurement devices and also heavily depends on Rope diameter, stiffness, treatments, belay device used etc... Rope used: 9.0mm Mammut Sender DRY Also special thanks to everyone who provided feedback on Version 1 of this video many months ago... that resulted into much deeper research of this topic - that's why it took me so long to come up with improved version 2 :D
I thought the first version of this video was well done, but this revised version is fantastic! I’m very impressed with the amount of information you are able to squeeze into these and appreciate the work that goes into it!
This 2 version was spot on! Regarding grigri and trad. As a trad climber who frequently uses the grigri, it would be really interesting to see how much higher the force is on the gear when belaying with a grigri vs tube-device. Huge thanks for all the time and effort you have put in your channel, it is truly making climbing safer and educating people!
@@hannes8215 I've actually tested that a bit, the difference is very small to none if you have space to move or jump with Assisted devices, and ofc know how to do that :D On hanging belay it might be different story...
You make awesome videos! I attended a lot of classes and am still learning new things and refreshing old things. Regarding the correct carabiner for belaying devices there are certain carabiners that prevent auto-tubers from working properly, which may be quiet dangerous and maybe worth mentioning. E.g. DMM belay master combined with the MegaJul.
In reference to the demo @ 3:00 I recommend that you always show the backup belayer in a camera shot both for peace of mind for your viewers and to reinforce the safety themes of your most excellent channel.
Actually, while using a grigri, if you point the gate the other direction (right) while loading/unloading the rope, you can further decrease the risk of dropping, as the nose always stays hooked in. As a right-handed person, this took a slight bit of getting used to, but now it is very smooth and I'm glad to have this technique when up on a wall
According to the German alpine association (DAV) the currently accepted technique to take slack is the tunneling one. This is also how you learn it in climbing courses nowadays.
Super helpful. I learned Slip Slap Slide from some old dudes teaching a community college course back in 2004, and I used it for a long time with tube style devices. Only when I went back to school and took another climbing class in 2015 did someone teach me PBUS. The instructor wasn't that put off by Slip Slap Slide, he'd seen it used for a long time, but he asked me to use PBUS because it was "better". I didn't really get a satisfactory answer on why it was better until now. Thanks!
Great job on the HoH, PBUS, Tunnel. Having climbed for decades and in many parts of the world, it's always annoying when people tell me I belay wrong, while I am doing things by the book. It's good to know, and the discussion here confirms, this is a rabbit hole and people will often thing the method they been taught is THE method. I would be interested in learning more about the (dis)advantages of different acceptable methods.
Thanks for this great video! One thing (I might have missed in the video): If you need to take in a lot of slack fast, just take a few steps back. That is if possible, doesn't apply to multi-pitch for obvious reasons. Walking back two meters might take in a lot more slack than you're able to take in otherwise!
Man just a few days ago I was looking through your channel to see if you'd already made a video about different belay devices, and now here it is! You read my mind. Thanks for all the great education about climbing safety!
Sometimes i use another method to take slack in a toprope scenario: My brake hand stays on the rope, my other hand grabs the rope under the belaying device and then my brake hand slides to my other hand. I'm a climbing instructor in the Netherlands and i recommend your channel to all my students! Thanks for taking the time to make these video's!
Here is a video about the belay technique that is being taught (also) in Finland (ua-cam.com/video/muVFR1GyBOs/v-deo.html). Wondering why it is not more commonly used elsewhere. Was hoping this technique would be represented in Ben's video. Thanks for the great video anyways!
Here is a video about the belay technique that is being taught (also) in Finland (ua-cam.com/video/muVFR1GyBOs/v-deo.html). Wondering why it is not more commonly used elsewhere. Was hoping this technique would be represented in Ben's video. Thanks for the great video anyways!
There's another important use of tubular devices: retrievable abseil. Where the rope is threaded through or around an anchor at the top of a route (e.g. sport anchors or a tree) and you abseil off both strands. Some assisted tubulars (e.g. Edelrid devices) also do this.
If by retrievable abseil you mean that the rope can be pulled down once you reach the ground, that is also possible with grigris and other single slot devices. Tie a knot with a bight on the rope near the middle part, and either put the other strand of the rope around the tree and through the bight, or clip a locking carabiner through the bight and around the other strand of the rope. Descend with the belay device on the strand of rope that goes through the bight/carabiner, and then pull the other strand to get the rope down.
I'm glad that you explained hand-over-hand and covered the things to be careful of instead of just saying that it should be avoided. In three years of climbing everyone just says "don't do that" and moves on
At 16:00 into the video… Great videos/info! I’m new to climbing (started with coworkers) but I’m a SPRAT III and I wanted to share a better way to use the grigri. In the video, the biner is connected to the grigri, nose to face plate. A safer way to handle the grigri is to make the connection by the biner from the back of the grigri. Doing it this way will make it so you don’t have to fully remove the biner from the grigri (the biner will always be “mostly in” the grigri while you’re opening it). Open the biner and move it just enough to open the face plate. Then, open the device, put the biner back in place (locked), thread your rope, open gate to slightly move biner out of the way of the face plate, close face, slightly move biner back into locked position. I hope this helps.
The proper way to attach a belay device section at 13:20 is also important because it helps make sure that you attach it to your harness correctly every time. The folks who try to manipulate carabiner, device, and rope hanging out in space in front of them are also the folks who swap the climber and belay strands in the device most often, for example.
I taught climbing 20yrs ago and learned how to climb in Southern Cali from classic old schoolers like Bob Kamps. You did an EXCELLENT job in this video! Wonderful refresher for me! I agree with everything you said brother! Aloha from Colorado!
Your Belay Masterclass videos have been some of the clearest, thorough, and easy to follow I've seen on the topics you've covered so far. Thank you so much for making these! I imagine you might already be planning this, but I really hope you do a masterclass video on anchor building-covering the various sport anchor situations that climbers encounter when building a top rope anchor (just two bolts, connected with a chain, parallel vs diagonally aligned bolts, what if there's a rappel ring, etc.). Keep up the amazing work!
I appreciate your videos with the detailed risks that need to be considered and mitigated. Your style is entertaining and of real value to a newly like myself. Thanks.
Once again a great video! There is another unofficial belaying techniek that experienced climbers use. Take slack, lock, move slack hand below belaying device to become the new locking hand and the old locking hand becomes the slank hand. You can belay really quickly without ever unlocking and reversing taking and giving slack halfway through is easy natural and safe.
I'm currently working with a couple of friends to teach them lead and send your videos to them to watch to get an even better understanding so thank you for all your work!
I searched for the episode you mentioned at 24:14 and didn't found it in your videos but after that I've realized that the current episode is really fresh, only 3 days old. Looking forward for the next episode with that awesome looking belayers, or belayerins 🤔
One thing I wish I knew before I bought my ATC, is the difference between the regular and guide versions. Ability to indirect belay your climbing partner during multi-pitch is well worth the extra cost of the guide, but at this point, I'm not sure I want to rebuy it. Edit: BTW, thank you for these videos. They are excellent! You have done a great service to the climbing community with these.
Thank you for this video. I agree with most things you said and showed in this video. In our climbing gym only assisted devices are allowed and we therefore teach the tunneling method combined with the PBUS technique (if at one point there is too much lack to take in comfortably with the first technique). The thing I criticize is how far up you take your break hand while belaying. It's not necessarry and makes it more dangerous. If you push the upper rope to the front instead of pulling it down you can easily pull it out to the front (both of the ropes parallel). This even works with assisted belaying devices. As well as reversed for giving out slack with assisted belaying devices. If you pull the rope out to the front, instead of up they don't lock (but they still would if the climber fell in this moment, because the break hand always stays low enough). You didn't mention the Giga Juul which I love for multipitch climbing as it allows me to use it as an assisted device for lead climbing and switch to a normal tuber to minimize friction when belaying from above or when rappelling. And in my opinion it's absulutely necessery to know how to belay with a knot (I don't know how this is called in english...) when one goes multipitch climbing (for emergencies). Much love from a climbing instructor from Swizerland! I always recommend your videos to my students :)
4:58 SOME tubers have a guide loop. Not all do (ATC-XP for example). Otherwise, thank you very much for a useful overview of what is out there. This entire series is quite informative.
That was a really in depth video. Liked it a lot and share it with beginners and advanced belayers as well. Thanks a lot for your work, thats worth it.
There is another method for taking slack, with alternating hands, I find this the most efficient and secure. This technique works as long as the breaking end of the rope is facing down (center) which is what happens anyways when you plug it all correctly to the belay loop. It's a pull, switch (pulling hand into breaking), break, release, there is no tunneling (then repeat all with the other hand as everything is now reversed). I suggest to give it a try and consider evaluating it's pros and cons. Thank you for all your great content, I find it very useful.
Good overview. Every belay method/device will have some weaknesses; none are perfect. It's important to practice and understand where those weaknesses may enter into a situation, and develop your usage technique to avoid them. Holding Gri Gris open is a common flaw; the phenomenon of a nearby directional carabiner being pulled against the gri gri and holding it unlocked is a real, but often overlooked concern, especially at a cramped anchor on multi-pitch routes. A huge belay error on single pitch sport routes is lowering where the rope end goes through the device - simply avoided with a knot in the rope end/ pre-tying it to something. Minor quibble - comprehensive testing in belay facilities has pretty well debunked the notion of a more dynamic, "soft catch" by an "experienced" belayer. Attempting to modulate the rope to add slippage actually just increases the total fall distance, which increases the chance for the leader to impact a ledge or bulge, but also increases the total energy of the fall; dynamometers have shown this creates a higher peak force on the top protection and leader, compared to a static belay which then allows the dynamic rope alone to optimally distribute the forces, never exceeding its maximum impact force, just stretching farther and over more time, as the fall's severity increases.
26:05 the reason is also that some people (a lot in germany for example) learnt to belay with munter hitch, where this position provide the best friction
Very good video :) In Czech Republic (Europe) climbing instructors should teach Tunnel technique as the main technique for taking slack. The reason why we are not recommending hand over hand is, besides the one you mentioned in video, that people have tendency to release main hand just a small moment before the second hand fully hold the rope. So there is possibility to fall to the not holded rope. BTW I like the Rule number 2 explanation :) I will use it in my class :)
Thank you for your videos! I‘m a beginner who only ever used a grigri and I always wondered how these other devices worked. Keep up the great work! I‘m looking forward to your future videos❤
The trainer world is split in two main groups here: One part say "let's all give them assisted devices from the get go. It's safer". The other part basically says "give them a tuber and let them feel the responsibility (because of rule #2) before handing them assisted devices". In optimal cases I tend to be on the second part.
@@chaosengine4597 I get that! The gym in my city seems to be on the first side, but i feel like they are relying to much on the devices assistance. The training wasn't too good and i already saw some other beginners doing some seriously dangerous stuff. I'm glad i found this channel to learn about the perks and limitations of the grigri and so much more. Rule #2 is pretty embedded in my brain by now.
I agree, I think everyone should learn toprope with a tube and practice with it for a while before upgrading to assisted! If you ever go on a multipitch, you'll need to have a good feel for the method, and it teaches you very strictly about the brake hand! After years with the grigri I find my brake hand often doesn't stay down when my climber has a big fall, because it doesn't "need" to... And I worry that will lead to bad habits!
Hey man, love your videos, tons of useful information, really appreciate it. One thing I noticed that you say about the gri-gri for multipitch security: You can add even a bit more of security if you turn your carabiner the other way (like for a southpaw), then you can still have the device in contact with the carabiner gate and open the side to put the rope and when you are to close it, you don't need to fully separate the gri-gri from the carabiner. Note: I'm waiting for the video about how to leave the route without using a maillon carabiner to rappel out. Cheers !!!
That is a great video! Very well explained,, thorough but not boring at all, and useful. It must have taken quite some work to make it. I subscribed inmediately. Thank you so much!
interesting, thanks for the info. When I learned belaying, there were only figure of eights, and stitchplates. It's interesting to see all the newer equipment. I learned hand-over-hand, so it is nice to see it is still used.
Dude, that was an amazing video. I didn't think I would watch everything but I did - and as a beginner climber, I thank you for the ton of lessons learnt. Subbed, obv.
thank you so much for this. I've been climbing in the gym with my university group with a teacher, but I had no idea how much of the information I am missing out
I’m so thankful for you! Your work is great and soo helpful to me. I learn so much watching your content. I’m sorry I’m not at a place to give you money but I’m thankful for you putting it on UA-cam. So I alway give you a like!
I am so excited about the tunneling video. Another small experiment could be about the assisted tubers: Fall while you unlock the device to give slack.
In fact thats a common mistake i just wrote an article about myself. Nearly everyone let go the brake strand when giving slack with autotube style devices. And with thumb deblocking it, there is nothing braking. Nearly all accidents with these devices happen this was. Nice vid as always btw
@@HardIsEasy if.... But a lot of climbers Open there fingers much wider than necessary. Just Look in accident reports/ numbers of ground falls with autotube devices. How do you think do they Happen. It is always wrong usage or too much Rope. Go in a Gym and watch what people do and you will see that opening hands while giving rope all the time. More or less obvious, but very often wrong. More often than with grigri i would suppose. Nice vid as always.
Great highly informative video! Always good to be refreshed on best practice. As an ex Click-Up user (I really wanted to like them but eventually moved back to a Grigri) I think I can answer your question about why Climbing Technology recommended using only their dedicated HMS biner with their Click-up. I found using some other HMS biners (e.g. Petzl and DMM) with this device if the Click-up happened to move into a cross loaded position over the biner gate the screw lock mechanism can jamb inside the slot in the Click-up causing it NOT to be able to ‘click up’ and lock the rope in a fall. The screw lock on the dedicated Climbing Technology Click-up biner is a larger diameter and as a result can’t slide into and jamb inside the biner slot in the Click-up. More than likely you could use a Click-up with a non-dedicated biner for a lifetime and never have this issue arise, but it’s worth knowing the potential exists. If you are using a click-up with some other locker check and make sure the screw lock mechanism can’t slide into the Click-Up biner slot!
Can you tell me why you moved back to gri gri? I use the gri gri, but I'm thinking about buying a click up, I'm intersted in knowing some reasons I should not
@@Rankidu I liked the original Click-up for its relative lightness, no moving parts and smooth operation. I bought the Click-up Plus thinking it would be even better but it was worse (more grabby). One downside is when the Click-up locks you have to actively unlock it before you can feed the rope freely again. This can be frustrating (for both climber and belayer) when you find it ‘accidentally’ locked right when you want to pay out rope quickly. If you take the time to master it’s quirks it can be a nice device to use but mastering the quirks of the Grigri was slightly easier for me in the end. If you are thinking of buying a Click-up it’s worth reading the review and comments on this UK Climbing review: www.ukclimbing.com/gear/climbing/belays/climbing_technology_click_up+_assisted_braking_belay_device-11853
hello, your episodes are very clear, I often suggest them to my students, if I may, the systematic use of belaying gloves changes lives and can save some...
There is actually a 4th way to belay which we teach in the Netherlands, don't know about other parts of the world. We only teach this for top rope, since we use tunneling for lead climbing. It is a variation on PBUS, which could be described as PBDS. 'Pull' and 'Break' are the same, but then your non-dominant hand is placed just below the belay 'Device' (this is the hand that was holding the climber's rope during 'Pull'), instead of placing this hand under your other hand like during PBUS. Then, your dominant hand 'Slides' up to meet your non-dominant hand just under the belay device. So you begin and end always with two fists under your device, which is a natural, comfortable and safe resting position, with as many hands on the break rope as possible at all times. As a Dutch climbing instructor, PBUS looks cumbersome and weird to me, as we're used tot PBDS, and some gyms also teach the 'hand of over hand' method. In fact, in the Netherlands I have never seen a single person use PBUS. Awesome video, love your content and keep up the great work! :)
I've been taught toprope twice in The Netherlands, because I needed a refresher. And I never got taught that method, always the hand over hand. That 4th method seems to be slightly unsafe even, but mostly for the belayer. If the climber takes a fall, your non-dominant hand could get sucked in. Of course, your dominant hand would be tunneling the rope, so it should be safe for the climber, just painful for the belayer. I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm not an experienced climber, this is my view and I'd love it if you could give me some more insight into this. Always curious to learn more :)
@@StalenStefan Thanks for your reply :) Personally I regard the hand over hand method to be slightly unsafer, when performed sloppely as the belayer gets a little too comfortable with the technique. It gets so fast that the hand switching starts to happen above the device with the posibility that you're not properly holding the rope in a position with less to no mechnical advantage. Whereas the PBDS technique ensures always one or two hand holding onto the rope at all times, as often as possible in the break position. When in the break position there's not enough slippage that a hand could be sucked in. It's not like your non-dominant hand is incapable of catching the fall, the belay device takes care of that :)
One comment on megajoule and joule. This was my first ever belaying device and I've been using it now for 5 years. You can actually get used to giving slack without unlocking the device with your right hand and thus never changing the position of fingers of your right hand. All it takes is a little thug back (direction of taking in the rope, not the fall). 2nd method: taping with the thumb knuckle of right hand. Idk if that would work with many assisted tubers, perhaps with mammut one. Hope this is useful:) Great (quality) video!
My first belaying device was Click up plus and I (un)fortunately lost it and moved to Rama. Not only it is almost 3 times cheaper (carabiner included), but it feels so much smoother to give rope to the climber and unlike clickup, it actually locks evrytime.
Man, great video! Turned the bell on for the first time! Can't wait fot the belay device comparison (interested in the assisted tubular devices primarily due to being left handed) and the social experiment!
one note with the release of assisted gear from touching other gear, tech climers use a carabiner on their harness to add friction to the 'free end' of the rope, which assists breaking the rope (STOPPING IT) when a rapid movement occurs ( think it helps the 'toggling action' of the device, so it locks, even if you have the rope held loostly).
Excellent vid. I wouuld like to point out that for giving or taking out slack you can help it by taking one step forwards or backwards. I feel that it is an advantage to be a little bit mobile when belaying, specially when you need to give slack quickly when the climber is clipping. thank you for your efforts an d excellent material. Cheers
I train this out of climbers because the majority of locations I have been to simply do not have flat and clear enough landings for this to be feasible. Two of my local and favorite projecting crags are on ledges which simply would not be wide enough, and enough are irregular that I wouldn’t be making much progress while being poorly positioned and being attentive to avoiding rocks. Most folks just need to resist the temptation to pull in slack after a clip and give more slack than is just enough. I also train this out of climbers, the difference is getting rid of the illusion of safety to make people properly assess safe falls like a softer but further catch.
That is absolutely true in a gym and that's what I usually do, specially with an ABD, but on mountains or multi pitch climbs you are hanging from the protection you placed or you are on a tiny ledge and you can't move .
It is nice to find all this in one place. Thanks! I think a comparison of auto tubers with regards to rope drag etc would be very useful to many beginners trying to pick their first / second device. For me Jul 2 wins hands down for top rope and lead, while I am still trying to get to like giga.
After testing soooo many variants, I came to the conclusion that the perfect sport climbing setup (for me) is owning BOTH grigri and revo. I will give revo to inexperienced belayers so that they won't short-rope me; I sometimes belay with it when my climber aims at sending his project in one go. GriGri is most useful for projecting, since it provides rest for the belayer (of course, breaking hand stays on the rope). It also allows to evacuate from a belay point that is above the ground (happens sometimes) or if I need to recover 1sr quickdraw(s) due to overhanging terrain that won't allow my climber to do it. Unfortunately it requires some training, and inexperienced belayers or tuber fans will often short rope during clipping.
Singing rock Rama proved to be the best belay aid for us. It is a copy of Mammut smart or Black diamond Pilot. My son, who provides me with belaying, once let go of both hands from the rope. He was startled and confused, and if it weren't for the semi-automatic safety device, I would have fallen from six to seven meters to the ground. It was in an indoor climbing wall. Otherwise, many thanks for the great videos, very useful especially for us beginners.
Great video. I have one more tip in order to no lose any of gear which is clipped via wiregate/ hms. Keep the gear at the bottom of the carabiner in the way that once the gate is open it blocks they way out. I've lost my atc once on multipitch and since then I always do it this way, so there is no phisical way of loosing the gear unless you drop the whole thing.
Great Video! One important "device" you missed is the munter hitch/hms. When you talked about dropping your device on a multipitch I was sure you were going to say something like: "If you drop your device, here's what's going to save your ass."
Regarding the clic-up carabiner, the diameter of the carabiner probably affects how well the device works with different types of ropes. That and/or the device can get jammed in the gate so a directional carabiner is needed
Again a great video! Regarding Tubers: In germany they are banned from most climbing gyms. You are only allowed to belay with an assisted braking device.
@@HardIsEasy I don't think it is/was a good idea to ban all other devices than ABDs (i also think the cause/reason is very debatable). Every device has pros and cons. e.g. the soft device-catch can only be done with tubers (or better plate-like-devices) but with all other devices you are forced to work more with your body, which is harder especially for beginners. There was a non representative study (i can't find anymore) about the connection between banning plate-like-devices and the increase in injuries from hard catches the time after. With banning these devices people who belayed for years with their plate-like-devices had to relearn belaying with other devices. Of course, it's not rocket science, but learning means also making mistakes and uncertainties. Imho everyone should belay with the device which suites them most. There is nothing like "the best belay device", therefor the title of my belay courses is "There is more than just the GRIGRI".
Really... In my gym in Germany they have no rules on device, I have even seen a couple oldtimers using HMS in the gym. There is no belay "test" either. Most people I know have a strong preference for assisted devices, but the gym doesn't care.... But I have heard that some gyms in N America have rules about which devices you can use? And I know they make you take a test, which isn't such a bad thing
@@ingridk2469 All DAV-gyms (and i think also some outside facilities too) and many more follow this policy. The gym i am working at also has a "take the device you like"-policy. I've been in some DAV-gyms in germany who are also testing your belay-skills if you don't have the DAV-certificate.
I work at a climbing gym in the Netherlands and the tunnel technique is pretty frowned upon here. We're even told to tell people using that technique to belay with at least one hand firmly grasping the break rope at all times. And if you need to move your hand up the rope we're taught to grab the break rope closer to the belay device with our other hand and slide our main hand up until your two fists make contact, only then can you let go with the other hand again. It's a slower technique but safer for sure. I didn't even think the tunnel technique was accepted anywhere else until now. I don't frown upon it as seen described in this video, but I still feel like it sacrifices some safety just for efficiency, and that it wouldn't hurt the be-layer to use a safer technique. Or maybe that's just me... I just know I would feel more comfortable climbing if I knew my be-layer always had one hand with a tight grip on the brake rope. Anyways, otherwise amazing video! I feel like I learnt a lot. Can't wait to see an extensive video about climbing knots :)
Even though they taught me the same belaying technique at the Klimmuur in Rotterdam, the tunnel technique is certainly not frowned upon in the whole of Netherlands. In fact it is the NKBV approved method of belaying since the DAV also approved of it. Have a look at page 29 of the NKBV indoor toprope course manual: nkbv.nl/files/Academie/Documenten/Klimsport/KVB/CursusbIT2018.pdf
You don't imagine how useful it is for a boulderer like me trying to get into sport climbing! I have taken lessons with a qualified instructor first, but these video are a huge plus to my climbing knowledge.
Amazing! Welcome to climbing more :D
Hard is easy with @@HardIsEasy , bro.
Try to get lessons
Make sure to take a course with a qualified instructor first. As useful as these videos are he can’t check if you are actually doing it correctly.
@@bjrnvogelaar7497 100% this. Always take a quick belaying course. Hard is Easy is great for if you already know some stuff but its not a replacement for real-life guidance from a certified instructor
Forgot to mention that force measurements in the beginning were done just to demonstrate that you can't hold much if your brake hand is up. They are NOT accurate due to errors in measurement devices and also heavily depends on Rope diameter, stiffness, treatments, belay device used etc...
Rope used: 9.0mm Mammut Sender DRY
Also special thanks to everyone who provided feedback on Version 1 of this video many months ago... that resulted into much deeper research of this topic - that's why it took me so long to come up with improved version 2 :D
I thought the first version of this video was well done, but this revised version is fantastic! I’m very impressed with the amount of information you are able to squeeze into these and appreciate the work that goes into it!
This 2 version was spot on! Regarding grigri and trad. As a trad climber who frequently uses the grigri, it would be really interesting to see how much higher the force is on the gear when belaying with a grigri vs tube-device.
Huge thanks for all the time and effort you have put in your channel, it is truly making climbing safer and educating people!
@@hannes8215 I've actually tested that a bit, the difference is very small to none if you have space to move or jump with Assisted devices, and ofc know how to do that :D
On hanging belay it might be different story...
You make awesome videos! I attended a lot of classes and am still learning new things and refreshing old things. Regarding the correct carabiner for belaying devices there are certain carabiners that prevent auto-tubers from working properly, which may be quiet dangerous and maybe worth mentioning. E.g. DMM belay master combined with the MegaJul.
In reference to the demo @ 3:00 I recommend that you always show the backup belayer in a camera shot both for peace of mind for your viewers and to reinforce the safety themes of your most excellent channel.
That knot tying at 17:22 was so incredibly smooth!
Check the episode on Knots ;) You'll love it :)
Actually, while using a grigri, if you point the gate the other direction (right) while loading/unloading the rope, you can further decrease the risk of dropping, as the nose always stays hooked in. As a right-handed person, this took a slight bit of getting used to, but now it is very smooth and I'm glad to have this technique when up on a wall
I don’t even climb and this guy makes it interesting.. he could be talking about anything and I’d watch… great energy !! You got it
According to the German alpine association (DAV) the currently accepted technique to take slack is the tunneling one. This is also how you learn it in climbing courses nowadays.
Great to hear that at other parts of the EU they accept it, because in Hungary (Budapest) at some places they don't allow to use that technique.
@@szilardhazi like not at all or just with the tuber?
Super helpful. I learned Slip Slap Slide from some old dudes teaching a community college course back in 2004, and I used it for a long time with tube style devices. Only when I went back to school and took another climbing class in 2015 did someone teach me PBUS. The instructor wasn't that put off by Slip Slap Slide, he'd seen it used for a long time, but he asked me to use PBUS because it was "better". I didn't really get a satisfactory answer on why it was better until now. Thanks!
The quality of this content is incredible! I learn so much every single video, genuinely thank you!
Great job on the HoH, PBUS, Tunnel. Having climbed for decades and in many parts of the world, it's always annoying when people tell me I belay wrong, while I am doing things by the book. It's good to know, and the discussion here confirms, this is a rabbit hole and people will often thing the method they been taught is THE method. I would be interested in learning more about the (dis)advantages of different acceptable methods.
Thanks for this great video! One thing (I might have missed in the video): If you need to take in a lot of slack fast, just take a few steps back. That is if possible, doesn't apply to multi-pitch for obvious reasons. Walking back two meters might take in a lot more slack than you're able to take in otherwise!
Yup, great trick! Works both ways too: move forward to give that extra foot of slack! 👍
Backing up on a multi will take up slack fast too. It's just a bit harder to give the slack back afterward.
Man just a few days ago I was looking through your channel to see if you'd already made a video about different belay devices, and now here it is! You read my mind. Thanks for all the great education about climbing safety!
Sometimes i use another method to take slack in a toprope scenario: My brake hand stays on the rope, my other hand grabs the rope under the belaying device and then my brake hand slides to my other hand. I'm a climbing instructor in the Netherlands and i recommend your channel to all my students! Thanks for taking the time to make these video's!
This is also the technique I got taught in the Netherlands and still use.
This is technique what you learn in Finland!
Here is a video about the belay technique that is being taught (also) in Finland (ua-cam.com/video/muVFR1GyBOs/v-deo.html). Wondering why it is not more commonly used elsewhere. Was hoping this technique would be represented in Ben's video. Thanks for the great video anyways!
Here is a video about the belay technique that is being taught (also) in Finland (ua-cam.com/video/muVFR1GyBOs/v-deo.html). Wondering why it is not more commonly used elsewhere. Was hoping this technique would be represented in Ben's video. Thanks for the great video anyways!
Welke hal?
There's another important use of tubular devices: retrievable abseil. Where the rope is threaded through or around an anchor at the top of a route (e.g. sport anchors or a tree) and you abseil off both strands. Some assisted tubulars (e.g. Edelrid devices) also do this.
If by retrievable abseil you mean that the rope can be pulled down once you reach the ground, that is also possible with grigris and other single slot devices. Tie a knot with a bight on the rope near the middle part, and either put the other strand of the rope around the tree and through the bight, or clip a locking carabiner through the bight and around the other strand of the rope. Descend with the belay device on the strand of rope that goes through the bight/carabiner, and then pull the other strand to get the rope down.
I'm glad that you explained hand-over-hand and covered the things to be careful of instead of just saying that it should be avoided. In three years of climbing everyone just says "don't do that" and moves on
And here I am in France in a beginner's class where it's only hand over hand and the other methods are forbidden 😂
Your videos are the most thorough, clear, and concise on all of UA-cam. Well done and much appreciated 👍
Your videos are so clear, so thorough, and so entertaining! I just had to support you on Patreon!
Dude thank you so much!
Dude. Your videos are SO helpful and digestible. You're killing it!
At 16:00 into the video…
Great videos/info!
I’m new to climbing (started with coworkers) but I’m a SPRAT III and I wanted to share a better way to use the grigri.
In the video, the biner is connected to the grigri, nose to face plate. A safer way to handle the grigri is to make the connection by the biner from the back of the grigri. Doing it this way will make it so you don’t have to fully remove the biner from the grigri (the biner will always be “mostly in” the grigri while you’re opening it). Open the biner and move it just enough to open the face plate. Then, open the device, put the biner back in place (locked), thread your rope, open gate to slightly move biner out of the way of the face plate, close face, slightly move biner back into locked position.
I hope this helps.
The proper way to attach a belay device section at 13:20 is also important because it helps make sure that you attach it to your harness correctly every time. The folks who try to manipulate carabiner, device, and rope hanging out in space in front of them are also the folks who swap the climber and belay strands in the device most often, for example.
I can really see these videos being used as supplemental material in climbing courses. Fantastic video, thank you.
I taught climbing 20yrs ago and learned how to climb in Southern Cali from classic old schoolers like Bob Kamps. You did an EXCELLENT job in this video! Wonderful refresher for me! I agree with everything you said brother! Aloha from Colorado!
Thanks for doing these man, more people will be able to climb safely because you did this.
Your Belay Masterclass videos have been some of the clearest, thorough, and easy to follow I've seen on the topics you've covered so far. Thank you so much for making these! I imagine you might already be planning this, but I really hope you do a masterclass video on anchor building-covering the various sport anchor situations that climbers encounter when building a top rope anchor (just two bolts, connected with a chain, parallel vs diagonally aligned bolts, what if there's a rappel ring, etc.). Keep up the amazing work!
I appreciate your videos with the detailed risks that need to be considered and mitigated. Your style is entertaining and of real value to a newly like myself. Thanks.
I appreciate that!
I would trust my life climbing with you. Excellent video and education.
Once again a great video! There is another unofficial belaying techniek that experienced climbers use. Take slack, lock, move slack hand below belaying device to become the new locking hand and the old locking hand becomes the slank hand. You can belay really quickly without ever unlocking and reversing taking and giving slack halfway through is easy natural and safe.
I'm currently working with a couple of friends to teach them lead and send your videos to them to watch to get an even better understanding so thank you for all your work!
I searched for the episode you mentioned at 24:14 and didn't found it in your videos but after that I've realized that the current episode is really fresh, only 3 days old.
Looking forward for the next episode with that awesome looking belayers, or belayerins 🤔
9:20 best part! instant sub
Love this series! So well made and informative. I used this series as a supplement when I was learning top-rope climbing!
I would definitely appreciate a buyer's guide, especially as a starting climber who mostly wants to get practicing indoors as safely as possible
I started working at a sport climbing gym a couple months ago, these vids have been a great resource for helping out our members!
Dziękujemy.
Dziękuję Ci również
Your videos worth a lot more than all the climbing courses I’ve taken… huge thank and I hope this channel will continue!
Been indoor climbing for 10+ years. Best video and explaination technique for belaying.. subbed.
These videos are incredible. Really helpful for lead newbies. Keep em coming Ben!
Thank you for all the time and effort you are putting into the belay masterclass series!
Well done for this remaster of the belay device video 👍🏼 it’s much more thorough and it shows you’ve done lots of research. Kudos brother 💕
Yes please! A comparison video would greatly add immense value to the classes :D
I would definitively love an in depth and objective review of the benefits and drawbacks of the various devices
One thing I wish I knew before I bought my ATC, is the difference between the regular and guide versions. Ability to indirect belay your climbing partner during multi-pitch is well worth the extra cost of the guide, but at this point, I'm not sure I want to rebuy it.
Edit: BTW, thank you for these videos. They are excellent! You have done a great service to the climbing community with these.
Thanks! It was very useful.
Thank you for this video. I agree with most things you said and showed in this video.
In our climbing gym only assisted devices are allowed and we therefore teach the tunneling method combined with the PBUS technique (if at one point there is too much lack to take in comfortably with the first technique).
The thing I criticize is how far up you take your break hand while belaying. It's not necessarry and makes it more dangerous. If you push the upper rope to the front instead of pulling it down you can easily pull it out to the front (both of the ropes parallel). This even works with assisted belaying devices. As well as reversed for giving out slack with assisted belaying devices. If you pull the rope out to the front, instead of up they don't lock (but they still would if the climber fell in this moment, because the break hand always stays low enough).
You didn't mention the Giga Juul which I love for multipitch climbing as it allows me to use it as an assisted device for lead climbing and switch to a normal tuber to minimize friction when belaying from above or when rappelling.
And in my opinion it's absulutely necessery to know how to belay with a knot (I don't know how this is called in english...) when one goes multipitch climbing (for emergencies).
Much love from a climbing instructor from Swizerland! I always recommend your videos to my students :)
4:58 SOME tubers have a guide loop. Not all do (ATC-XP for example). Otherwise, thank you very much for a useful overview of what is out there. This entire series is quite informative.
Very well explained.(With a good english accent understandable by a frenchy like me !).
Good job.
Thank you very much.
That was a really in depth video. Liked it a lot and share it with beginners and advanced belayers as well. Thanks a lot for your work, thats worth it.
Dude! The sound affect for #2 had me rolling throughout the entire video.
Been using a Black Diamond ATC Pilot for the last year or so and I absolutely love it.
There is another method for taking slack, with alternating hands, I find this the most efficient and secure. This technique works as long as the breaking end of the rope is facing down (center) which is what happens anyways when you plug it all correctly to the belay loop. It's a pull, switch (pulling hand into breaking), break, release, there is no tunneling (then repeat all with the other hand as everything is now reversed). I suggest to give it a try and consider evaluating it's pros and cons. Thank you for all your great content, I find it very useful.
Good overview. Every belay method/device will have some weaknesses; none are perfect. It's important to practice and understand where those weaknesses may enter into a situation, and develop your usage technique to avoid them. Holding Gri Gris open is a common flaw; the phenomenon of a nearby directional carabiner being pulled against the gri gri and holding it unlocked is a real, but often overlooked concern, especially at a cramped anchor on multi-pitch routes. A huge belay error on single pitch sport routes is lowering where the rope end goes through the device - simply avoided with a knot in the rope end/ pre-tying it to something.
Minor quibble - comprehensive testing in belay facilities has pretty well debunked the notion of a more dynamic, "soft catch" by an "experienced" belayer. Attempting to modulate the rope to add slippage actually just increases the total fall distance, which increases the chance for the leader to impact a ledge or bulge, but also increases the total energy of the fall; dynamometers have shown this creates a higher peak force on the top protection and leader, compared to a static belay which then allows the dynamic rope alone to optimally distribute the forces, never exceeding its maximum impact force, just stretching farther and over more time, as the fall's severity increases.
26:05 the reason is also that some people (a lot in germany for example) learnt to belay with munter hitch, where this position provide the best friction
just f**k munter hitch
Very good video :) In Czech Republic (Europe) climbing instructors should teach Tunnel technique as the main technique for taking slack. The reason why we are not recommending hand over hand is, besides the one you mentioned in video, that people have tendency to release main hand just a small moment before the second hand fully hold the rope. So there is possibility to fall to the not holded rope. BTW I like the Rule number 2 explanation :) I will use it in my class :)
I'm in Germany and was taught tunnel technique with assisted tubers.
Thank you for your videos! I‘m a beginner who only ever used a grigri and I always wondered how these other devices worked. Keep up the great work! I‘m looking forward to your future videos❤
The trainer world is split in two main groups here: One part say "let's all give them assisted devices from the get go. It's safer". The other part basically says "give them a tuber and let them feel the responsibility (because of rule #2) before handing them assisted devices". In optimal cases I tend to be on the second part.
@@chaosengine4597 I get that! The gym in my city seems to be on the first side, but i feel like they are relying to much on the devices assistance. The training wasn't too good and i already saw some other beginners doing some seriously dangerous stuff. I'm glad i found this channel to learn about the perks and limitations of the grigri and so much more. Rule #2 is pretty embedded in my brain by now.
I agree, I think everyone should learn toprope with a tube and practice with it for a while before upgrading to assisted! If you ever go on a multipitch, you'll need to have a good feel for the method, and it teaches you very strictly about the brake hand! After years with the grigri I find my brake hand often doesn't stay down when my climber has a big fall, because it doesn't "need" to... And I worry that will lead to bad habits!
Huge video!!! really interesting even for experiment climber... I didn't know the PBUS technic ! thanks a lot for this masterclass 👍
Vielen Dank für ein Video ohne nervige Musik. Das ist nicht selbstverständlich heutzutage.
Not only are your videos very informative for me, but they are entertaining also!! Keep them coming.
This channel has been so useful me I'm stoked to be able to learn extra on top of my other training without having to pay an arm and a leg
Hey man, love your videos, tons of useful information, really appreciate it.
One thing I noticed that you say about the gri-gri for multipitch security: You can add even a bit more of security if you turn your carabiner the other way (like for a southpaw), then you can still have the device in contact with the carabiner gate and open the side to put the rope and when you are to close it, you don't need to fully separate the gri-gri from the carabiner.
Note: I'm waiting for the video about how to leave the route without using a maillon carabiner to rappel out.
Cheers !!!
This is quickly becoming the preeminent guide to climbing! Thanks for all the hard work!
Your videos always teach me more than I expected. So many useful tips. Thanks very much 😀 👍
That is a great video! Very well explained,, thorough but not boring at all, and useful. It must have taken quite some work to make it. I subscribed inmediately. Thank you so much!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is an absolutely excellent series of videos. Very enlightening - many thanks.
interesting, thanks for the info. When I learned belaying, there were only figure of eights, and stitchplates. It's interesting to see all the newer equipment. I learned hand-over-hand, so it is nice to see it is still used.
I've climbed for years and still learn so much from your videos. Thank you. God bless
Dude, that was an amazing video. I didn't think I would watch everything but I did - and as a beginner climber, I thank you for the ton of lessons learnt. Subbed, obv.
Would absolutely like to see a video of a breakdown of the pros and cons of different devices :)
thank you so much for this. I've been climbing in the gym with my university group with a teacher, but I had no idea how much of the information I am missing out
I’m so thankful for you! Your work is great and soo helpful to me. I learn so much watching your content. I’m sorry I’m not at a place to give you money but I’m thankful for you putting it on UA-cam. So I alway give you a like!
Always stoked to see you put out a new video. Much appreciated.
I am so excited about the tunneling video. Another small experiment could be about the assisted tubers: Fall while you unlock the device to give slack.
Ghmmm... I kinda expect them to lock if you use them properly... but gonan put to my list maybe try it out :D Thanks :D
In fact thats a common mistake i just wrote an article about myself.
Nearly everyone let go the brake strand when giving slack with autotube style devices.
And with thumb deblocking it, there is nothing braking.
Nearly all accidents with these devices happen this was.
Nice vid as always btw
@@HardIsEasy if.... But a lot of climbers Open there fingers much wider than necessary. Just Look in accident reports/ numbers of ground falls with autotube devices.
How do you think do they Happen.
It is always wrong usage or too much Rope.
Go in a Gym and watch what people do and you will see that opening hands while giving rope all the time. More or less obvious, but very often wrong.
More often than with grigri i would suppose.
Nice vid as always.
@@marcus_diy Thanks for sharing, gonna def put that to a list of things to try to film
@@marcus_diy Hi Marcus, would it be ok, do share the link to your article?
Great highly informative video! Always good to be refreshed on best practice. As an ex Click-Up user (I really wanted to like them but eventually moved back to a Grigri) I think I can answer your question about why Climbing Technology recommended using only their dedicated HMS biner with their Click-up. I found using some other HMS biners (e.g. Petzl and DMM) with this device if the Click-up happened to move into a cross loaded position over the biner gate the screw lock mechanism can jamb inside the slot in the Click-up causing it NOT to be able to ‘click up’ and lock the rope in a fall.
The screw lock on the dedicated Climbing Technology Click-up biner is a larger diameter and as a result can’t slide into and jamb inside the biner slot in the Click-up.
More than likely you could use a Click-up with a non-dedicated biner for a lifetime and never have this issue arise, but it’s worth knowing the potential exists. If you are using a click-up with some other locker check and make sure the screw lock mechanism can’t slide into the Click-Up biner slot!
Can you tell me why you moved back to gri gri? I use the gri gri, but I'm thinking about buying a click up, I'm intersted in knowing some reasons I should not
@@Rankidu I liked the original Click-up for its relative lightness, no moving parts and smooth operation. I bought the Click-up Plus thinking it would be even better but it was worse (more grabby). One downside is when the Click-up locks you have to actively unlock it before you can feed the rope freely again. This can be frustrating (for both climber and belayer) when you find it ‘accidentally’ locked right when you want to pay out rope quickly.
If you take the time to master it’s quirks it can be a nice device to use but mastering the quirks of the Grigri was slightly easier for me in the end. If you are thinking of buying a Click-up it’s worth reading the review and comments on this UK Climbing review: www.ukclimbing.com/gear/climbing/belays/climbing_technology_click_up+_assisted_braking_belay_device-11853
hello, your episodes are very clear, I often suggest them to my students, if I may, the systematic use of belaying gloves changes lives and can save some...
There is actually a 4th way to belay which we teach in the Netherlands, don't know about other parts of the world. We only teach this for top rope, since we use tunneling for lead climbing. It is a variation on PBUS, which could be described as PBDS. 'Pull' and 'Break' are the same, but then your non-dominant hand is placed just below the belay 'Device' (this is the hand that was holding the climber's rope during 'Pull'), instead of placing this hand under your other hand like during PBUS. Then, your dominant hand 'Slides' up to meet your non-dominant hand just under the belay device. So you begin and end always with two fists under your device, which is a natural, comfortable and safe resting position, with as many hands on the break rope as possible at all times. As a Dutch climbing instructor, PBUS looks cumbersome and weird to me, as we're used tot PBDS, and some gyms also teach the 'hand of over hand' method. In fact, in the Netherlands I have never seen a single person use PBUS. Awesome video, love your content and keep up the great work! :)
This "4th way" was the one I was taught in a top rope course in Finland.
I've been taught toprope twice in The Netherlands, because I needed a refresher. And I never got taught that method, always the hand over hand. That 4th method seems to be slightly unsafe even, but mostly for the belayer. If the climber takes a fall, your non-dominant hand could get sucked in. Of course, your dominant hand would be tunneling the rope, so it should be safe for the climber, just painful for the belayer. I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm not an experienced climber, this is my view and I'd love it if you could give me some more insight into this. Always curious to learn more :)
PBDS could stand for pull brake dominant slide, but it could also be peanut butter door stop
@@StalenStefan Thanks for your reply :) Personally I regard the hand over hand method to be slightly unsafer, when performed sloppely as the belayer gets a little too comfortable with the technique. It gets so fast that the hand switching starts to happen above the device with the posibility that you're not properly holding the rope in a position with less to no mechnical advantage. Whereas the PBDS technique ensures always one or two hand holding onto the rope at all times, as often as possible in the break position. When in the break position there's not enough slippage that a hand could be sucked in. It's not like your non-dominant hand is incapable of catching the fall, the belay device takes care of that :)
One comment on megajoule and joule. This was my first ever belaying device and I've been using it now for 5 years. You can actually get used to giving slack without unlocking the device with your right hand and thus never changing the position of fingers of your right hand. All it takes is a little thug back (direction of taking in the rope, not the fall). 2nd method: taping with the thumb knuckle of right hand. Idk if that would work with many assisted tubers, perhaps with mammut one.
Hope this is useful:)
Great (quality) video!
My first belaying device was Click up plus and I (un)fortunately lost it and moved to Rama. Not only it is almost 3 times cheaper (carabiner included), but it feels so much smoother to give rope to the climber and unlike clickup, it actually locks evrytime.
Glad to see this episode back up. Great information.
Your videos are very engaging and informative. Thank you.
I'd love if you pointed out your favorite devices, and why.
Thanks for another great vid.
Man, great video! Turned the bell on for the first time! Can't wait fot the belay device comparison (interested in the assisted tubular devices primarily due to being left handed) and the social experiment!
one note with the release of assisted gear from touching other gear, tech climers use a carabiner on their harness to add friction to the 'free end' of the rope, which assists breaking the rope (STOPPING IT) when a rapid movement occurs ( think it helps the 'toggling action' of the device, so it locks, even if you have the rope held loostly).
Excellent vid. I wouuld like to point out that for giving or taking out slack you can help it by taking one step forwards or backwards. I feel that it is an advantage to be a little bit mobile when belaying, specially when you need to give slack quickly when the climber is clipping. thank you for your efforts an d excellent material. Cheers
I train this out of climbers because the majority of locations I have been to simply do not have flat and clear enough landings for this to be feasible. Two of my local and favorite projecting crags are on ledges which simply would not be wide enough, and enough are irregular that I wouldn’t be making much progress while being poorly positioned and being attentive to avoiding rocks.
Most folks just need to resist the temptation to pull in slack after a clip and give more slack than is just enough. I also train this out of climbers, the difference is getting rid of the illusion of safety to make people properly assess safe falls like a softer but further catch.
That is absolutely true in a gym and that's what I usually do, specially with an ABD, but on mountains or multi pitch climbs you are hanging from the protection you placed or you are on a tiny ledge and you can't move .
It is nice to find all this in one place. Thanks! I think a comparison of auto tubers with regards to rope drag etc would be very useful to many beginners trying to pick their first / second device. For me Jul 2 wins hands down for top rope and lead, while I am still trying to get to like giga.
Great video! What do you think about using "belay-gloves" to decrease the risk of rope-burn and avoiding getting your own skin caught in the device?
You look much stronger in this video compared to say the rope episode. Good job!
Thank you so much for yet another amazingly informational video! Will recommend to all my climbing buddies.
After testing soooo many variants, I came to the conclusion that the perfect sport climbing setup (for me) is owning BOTH grigri and revo.
I will give revo to inexperienced belayers so that they won't short-rope me; I sometimes belay with it when my climber aims at sending his project in one go.
GriGri is most useful for projecting, since it provides rest for the belayer (of course, breaking hand stays on the rope). It also allows to evacuate from a belay point that is above the ground (happens sometimes) or if I need to recover 1sr quickdraw(s) due to overhanging terrain that won't allow my climber to do it.
Unfortunately it requires some training, and inexperienced belayers or tuber fans will often short rope during clipping.
How is gri-gri related to short-roping? I couldn't feel the difference when i used it, but maybe my climbers did
Singing rock Rama proved to be the best belay aid for us. It is a copy of Mammut smart or Black diamond Pilot. My son, who provides me with belaying, once let go of both hands from the rope. He was startled and confused, and if it weren't for the semi-automatic safety device, I would have fallen from six to seven meters to the ground. It was in an indoor climbing wall.
Otherwise, many thanks for the great videos, very useful especially for us beginners.
Thank you for making videos. You are an excellent teacher. Keep it up!
Thanks
Cheers Pablo!
Great video. I have one more tip in order to no lose any of gear which is clipped via wiregate/ hms. Keep the gear at the bottom of the carabiner in the way that once the gate is open it blocks they way out. I've lost my atc once on multipitch and since then I always do it this way, so there is no phisical way of loosing the gear unless you drop the whole thing.
not sure if I understand your tip...?
Great Video! One important "device" you missed is the munter hitch/hms. When you talked about dropping your device on a multipitch I was sure you were going to say something like: "If you drop your device, here's what's going to save your ass."
I would add that tubers are also great for rappelling down quickly and easily. Probably not useful for everyone but for me it's definitely convenient.
such comparision would be really cool since it looks like You have some experience with more then one/two devices.
Il miglior video sul web ! complimenti !
Danke!
Thank you Monty!
Regarding the clic-up carabiner, the diameter of the carabiner probably affects how well the device works with different types of ropes. That and/or the device can get jammed in the gate so a directional carabiner is needed
Several gems of info in this video - even for experienced climbers !
Excellent videos! Super informative with a bit of humour thrown in. I just subscribed
Again a great video! Regarding Tubers: In germany they are banned from most climbing gyms. You are only allowed to belay with an assisted braking device.
Interesting! And I guess good :)
@@HardIsEasy I don't think it is/was a good idea to ban all other devices than ABDs (i also think the cause/reason is very debatable). Every device has pros and cons. e.g. the soft device-catch can only be done with tubers (or better plate-like-devices) but with all other devices you are forced to work more with your body, which is harder especially for beginners. There was a non representative study (i can't find anymore) about the connection between banning plate-like-devices and the increase in injuries from hard catches the time after.
With banning these devices people who belayed for years with their plate-like-devices had to relearn belaying with other devices. Of course, it's not rocket science, but learning means also making mistakes and uncertainties.
Imho everyone should belay with the device which suites them most. There is nothing like "the best belay device", therefor the title of my belay courses is "There is more than just the GRIGRI".
same for lots of Austrian gyms. Usually when they had jet another belaying accident.
Really... In my gym in Germany they have no rules on device, I have even seen a couple oldtimers using HMS in the gym. There is no belay "test" either. Most people I know have a strong preference for assisted devices, but the gym doesn't care.... But I have heard that some gyms in N America have rules about which devices you can use? And I know they make you take a test, which isn't such a bad thing
@@ingridk2469 All DAV-gyms (and i think also some outside facilities too) and many more follow this policy. The gym i am working at also has a "take the device you like"-policy.
I've been in some DAV-gyms in germany who are also testing your belay-skills if you don't have the DAV-certificate.
I work at a climbing gym in the Netherlands and the tunnel technique is pretty frowned upon here. We're even told to tell people using that technique to belay with at least one hand firmly grasping the break rope at all times. And if you need to move your hand up the rope we're taught to grab the break rope closer to the belay device with our other hand and slide our main hand up until your two fists make contact, only then can you let go with the other hand again. It's a slower technique but safer for sure. I didn't even think the tunnel technique was accepted anywhere else until now. I don't frown upon it as seen described in this video, but I still feel like it sacrifices some safety just for efficiency, and that it wouldn't hurt the be-layer to use a safer technique. Or maybe that's just me... I just know I would feel more comfortable climbing if I knew my be-layer always had one hand with a tight grip on the brake rope.
Anyways, otherwise amazing video! I feel like I learnt a lot. Can't wait to see an extensive video about climbing knots :)
Even though they taught me the same belaying technique at the Klimmuur in Rotterdam, the tunnel technique is certainly not frowned upon in the whole of Netherlands. In fact it is the NKBV approved method of belaying since the DAV also approved of it.
Have a look at page 29 of the NKBV indoor toprope course manual: nkbv.nl/files/Academie/Documenten/Klimsport/KVB/CursusbIT2018.pdf