Great stuff! Glad to see you back. Just did a belay from above that the rope extension master point would have worked perfectly for. Thanks for the Bonus Tip! Keep em coming :)
would love to see how to rappel and retrieve rope. keep the videos coming, i'm new and learning. i know i need to find a instructor and learn hands on but this is still good to learn.
Thanks! The last few videos I published bombed so hopefully this one will do better! You know why I stopped? Because my channel was going nowhere. So I gave up. Then a month later I got all these new subs and it has been getting views ever since-bizarre!
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool good content ages well. Thank you for the super useful video. The bonus skill was new for me, I really liked it. Quick Question: can you explain how to escape the system from that configuration.
Great content thank you. 1 question. Is it absolutely necessary to redirect when lowering the climber? Is there a reason you can't rely on the gri gri handle to lower? If I had to guess I'd imagine that with the gri gri upside down, if the cam were to fail than you couldn't hold the climber with a redirect? Thanks in advance .
We redirect the brake strand when lowering in order to maintain control. Otherwise there's no slow. Just really fast or stop, which would be dangerous for the person getting lowered.
any issues to consider when using a grigri in trad? I have been trying to research this whilst practising using a reverso in guide mode and generally folk are saying it can take the dynamicness (not a word) out of a belay . great vids, cheers
You can give a top belay with a grigri in trad climbing just fine. It works awesome. You can belay a trad leader with a grigri too. Is your question about belaying the leader or follower?
Sorry I am just now getting to your comment. I think you are asking about belaying the leader with a gri gri on trad? It's fine. The fact that a gri gri has braking assist and an ATC type device does not is a big deal. Many bad accidents due to the belayer dropping the leader. As to your point, yes, the gri gri takes some of the dynamic quality out of the catch compared to an ATC type device which is designed to slip a foot or so as you catch the leader. Could that make a trad piece more likely to fail? Potentially, but I think the benefit of having a braking assist outweighs the benefit of a dynamic catch. Having said that, most trad climbers don't bring a gri gri on multi pitch because it's heavy and makes rappelling difficult.
Very concise instruction .... One thing though I think the way you are running your gri gri is only approved by Petzel for the newer versions of the device. For the old ones they wanted you to bring up a second by having the device on your belay loop and the rope to the climber going up to a redirect point then back down to the climber. I think people used the old ones the way you are showing but it was not the approved way shown in their literature. They are very durable devices and there are probably plenty of the old ones in use.
The gri gri I used in the video I bought new in 2021. The AMGA has been training guides to use a gri gri in this fashion for a long time. It made it into the AMGA SPI manual back in 2014 but it was already a common practice in the guiding community before then.
very good display! question about the extended belay: how about using a less jamming knot, like an alpine butterfly? something easier to untie after loading, for example if partner falls
Interesting question. I have yet to struggle untying the BHK when using the rope, even after the follower falls. I would have to play around with the butterfly in this application before giving my opinion. Are you using this in an alpine context with gloves on? You could clip a non locker into the BHK to make it easier to untie.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool i havent actually used it yet, but i want to practice it... i actually started to climb alpine right now and plan to keep going this winter so i actually might have to
@@stefanomorandi7150 The techniques I show in this video are best for warm weather climbing. In alpine/winter settings you might find ways to simplify your systems to tie and untie less knots due to not wanting to remove gloves. The quad anchor can be reused without retying, for example. Also the 7mm cordelette I used in this video is too heavy for alpine climbing in my opinion.
As far as functionality goes, both the ATC guide and GriGri have the same general functions. You do need an extra locking carabiner to use the ATC guide, but they're both "autolocking" devices and both can be used to belay the first or second, as well as rappel. An ATC guide is $30 and a GriGri is $100. Personally, I use a GriGri to belay the leader and an ATC guide to bring up the second and to rappel. If you have two GriGris, then it's pretty convenient to belay the second with the GriGri (from above). Since I always bring an ATC guide to rappel, there is no need for me to carry a second GriGri. If you and your partner each own a GriGri, then it comes down to personal preference as far as what device you use to belay from above. I don't like rappelling off a single strand with the GriGri, so an ATC guide is always on my harness. While I know how to do it, I've never seen anyone rappel with the GriGri -- ATC's seem to be the standard rappel device. Be safe and I hope that helps!
A grigri can't belay double rope or twin ropes, which is much more common for trad climbing in Europe, and often used for alpine and ice climbing. The grigri also is not great for ice climbing belays, as any ice on the rope will bind in the grigri. Friends swear by grigris for simul rappelling, but I prefer not to simul, so I use an ATC to rappel off two strands. Basically, the grigri is limited to one strand of rope.
@@mls01981 Thank you. Rappelling with a grigri can be problematic. The reepshnur method can be used to rappel a single strand with a grigri and still retrieve your rope but it's easier to rappel with an ATC type device.
I recommend a locker. A non-locker should work fine in almost all situations. However if the brake strand were to come out of the redirect carabiner for any reason your lower becomes uncontrollable. As you release the handle nothing happens at first and then the rope just explodes out of the grigri and the climber starts rocketing down the cliff! In other words you lose the clutch. It's either on or off. Stop, or go way too fast.
When we're belaying from below and the brake strand is held up high it won't necessarily lock as well, though. When belaying from above and the brake strand going down it's in the same orientation, so isn't that unsafe?
If the rope is too skinny or too icy then it's unsafe. I have belayed like this from above literally thousands of times and never had a failure of the grigri to catch. Some ropes grab more readily. Some are more prone to slipping. If you ease onto it it doesn't catch as quickly as if you fall on it. Get to know how your rope behaves on your grigri. These systems require constant vigilance. Make sure you tug on the rope to check that the grigri is grabbing before you say on belay. Assume the grigri might fail and you might have to bring your brake hand up as a last resort, as you state. As I moved into more advanced forms of climbing I found that "rules" I was taught as a beginner are over simplifications of complex topics.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool So... yes it's unsafe? :/ It seems like that could be fixed by just redirecting the brake strand while belaying as well as lowering? Then it's always in the S shape like belaying from below. I haven't tried it to see how uncomfortable it is, though.
It's safe if the belayer is aware of all the variables in play and has the experience and judgement to use this advanced system. If you redirect while belaying it would be too hard and slow to pull rope through and you'd end up with slack which would put the climber at risk. @@eyescreamcake
Thank you. I'm not very good at making videos but I can teach trad techniques in person at a high level with a dedication to detail and current professional standards. In fact, all of our guides at California Climbing School are able to teach at a high level of quality and consistency. Please consider taking a class sometime and we can help you raise your climbing to the next level. Thanks again.
Great video!! When California Climbing School showed up when I googled “grigri belay from anchor” you know that’s the one I watched!
Thanks, crisp, clean and to the point.
Awesome video. Your quality and clarity of communication is the best I've found on youtube. Thanks for what you do!
Thank you!
This channel is so great! Please don't stop making vidoes!
Great post! Thanks for showing the hauling and the extended anchor all in one video 🙏
Love extending that belay with the rope technique. Awesome!
That trick changed my life when my buddy Markus showed it to me.
That was indeed very helpful! Thanks
Great video very clear and to the point added the link to the climbing file
Great instruction, thank you!!
Wish I knew about extending the master point. Thanks now I know .
Good overview!
Great stuff! Glad to see you back. Just did a belay from above that the rope extension master point would have worked perfectly for. Thanks for the Bonus Tip! Keep em coming :)
Thank you!
Learned something new
Omg I like that last trick I was wondering how to do that!
Fantasic guide
Thank you!
would love to see how to rappel and retrieve rope. keep the videos coming, i'm new and learning. i know i need to find a instructor and learn hands on but this is still good to learn.
Thank you. You're right, I should do a rappel and retrieve rope video.
Back after 2 yrs! Welcome!
Thanks! The last few videos I published bombed so hopefully this one will do better! You know why I stopped? Because my channel was going nowhere. So I gave up. Then a month later I got all these new subs and it has been getting views ever since-bizarre!
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool good content ages well.
Thank you for the super useful video. The bonus skill was new for me, I really liked it.
Quick Question: can you explain how to escape the system from that configuration.
Thank you!
@@Spinsser Yeah the bonus skill was a revelation for me when I learned it.
Great content thank you. 1 question. Is it absolutely necessary to redirect when lowering the climber? Is there a reason you can't rely on the gri gri handle to lower? If I had to guess I'd imagine that with the gri gri upside down, if the cam were to fail than you couldn't hold the climber with a redirect? Thanks in advance .
We redirect the brake strand when lowering in order to maintain control. Otherwise there's no slow. Just really fast or stop, which would be dangerous for the person getting lowered.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool thanks
any issues to consider when using a grigri in trad? I have been trying to research this whilst practising using a reverso in guide mode and generally folk are saying it can take the dynamicness (not a word) out of a belay . great vids, cheers
You can give a top belay with a grigri in trad climbing just fine. It works awesome. You can belay a trad leader with a grigri too. Is your question about belaying the leader or follower?
Sorry I am just now getting to your comment. I think you are asking about belaying the leader with a gri gri on trad? It's fine. The fact that a gri gri has braking assist and an ATC type device does not is a big deal. Many bad accidents due to the belayer dropping the leader. As to your point, yes, the gri gri takes some of the dynamic quality out of the catch compared to an ATC type device which is designed to slip a foot or so as you catch the leader. Could that make a trad piece more likely to fail? Potentially, but I think the benefit of having a braking assist outweighs the benefit of a dynamic catch. Having said that, most trad climbers don't bring a gri gri on multi pitch because it's heavy and makes rappelling difficult.
Very concise instruction .... One thing though I think the way you are running your gri gri is only approved by Petzel for the newer versions of the device. For the old ones they wanted you to bring up a second by having the device on your belay loop and the rope to the climber going up to a redirect point then back down to the climber. I think people used the old ones the way you are showing but it was not the approved way shown in their literature. They are very durable devices and there are probably plenty of the old ones in use.
The gri gri I used in the video I bought new in 2021. The AMGA has been training guides to use a gri gri in this fashion for a long time. It made it into the AMGA SPI manual back in 2014 but it was already a common practice in the guiding community before then.
very good display! question about the extended belay: how about using a less jamming knot, like an alpine butterfly? something easier to untie after loading, for example if partner falls
Interesting question. I have yet to struggle untying the BHK when using the rope, even after the follower falls. I would have to play around with the butterfly in this application before giving my opinion. Are you using this in an alpine context with gloves on? You could clip a non locker into the BHK to make it easier to untie.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool i havent actually used it yet, but i want to practice it... i actually started to climb alpine right now and plan to keep going this winter so i actually might have to
@@stefanomorandi7150 The techniques I show in this video are best for warm weather climbing. In alpine/winter settings you might find ways to simplify your systems to tie and untie less knots due to not wanting to remove gloves. The quad anchor can be reused without retying, for example. Also the 7mm cordelette I used in this video is too heavy for alpine climbing in my opinion.
I thought it was harder to untie a butterfly than a BHK...no? Where did you get the idea to use a butterfly knot?
I'm pretty new to any sort of multi pitch climing, but noticed you have an ATC guide on your harness too. Is there stuff the grigri can't do?
As far as functionality goes, both the ATC guide and GriGri have the same general functions. You do need an extra locking carabiner to use the ATC guide, but they're both "autolocking" devices and both can be used to belay the first or second, as well as rappel. An ATC guide is $30 and a GriGri is $100.
Personally, I use a GriGri to belay the leader and an ATC guide to bring up the second and to rappel.
If you have two GriGris, then it's pretty convenient to belay the second with the GriGri (from above). Since I always bring an ATC guide to rappel, there is no need for me to carry a second GriGri. If you and your partner each own a GriGri, then it comes down to personal preference as far as what device you use to belay from above. I don't like rappelling off a single strand with the GriGri, so an ATC guide is always on my harness. While I know how to do it, I've never seen anyone rappel with the GriGri -- ATC's seem to be the standard rappel device.
Be safe and I hope that helps!
A grigri can't belay double rope or twin ropes, which is much more common for trad climbing in Europe, and often used for alpine and ice climbing. The grigri also is not great for ice climbing belays, as any ice on the rope will bind in the grigri. Friends swear by grigris for simul rappelling, but I prefer not to simul, so I use an ATC to rappel off two strands. Basically, the grigri is limited to one strand of rope.
I agree with everything Molly said. Good question.
@@mollyohm756 Yes!
@@mls01981 Thank you. Rappelling with a grigri can be problematic. The reepshnur method can be used to rappel a single strand with a grigri and still retrieve your rope but it's easier to rappel with an ATC type device.
Why do you need to have a locker for the redirect? what would happen if it came out?
I recommend a locker. A non-locker should work fine in almost all situations. However if the brake strand were to come out of the redirect carabiner for any reason your lower becomes uncontrollable. As you release the handle nothing happens at first and then the rope just explodes out of the grigri and the climber starts rocketing down the cliff! In other words you lose the clutch. It's either on or off. Stop, or go way too fast.
When we're belaying from below and the brake strand is held up high it won't necessarily lock as well, though. When belaying from above and the brake strand going down it's in the same orientation, so isn't that unsafe?
If the rope is too skinny or too icy then it's unsafe. I have belayed like this from above literally thousands of times and never had a failure of the grigri to catch. Some ropes grab more readily. Some are more prone to slipping. If you ease onto it it doesn't catch as quickly as if you fall on it. Get to know how your rope behaves on your grigri. These systems require constant vigilance. Make sure you tug on the rope to check that the grigri is grabbing before you say on belay. Assume the grigri might fail and you might have to bring your brake hand up as a last resort, as you state. As I moved into more advanced forms of climbing I found that "rules" I was taught as a beginner are over simplifications of complex topics.
I actually wrote the reply above but didn't realize I was logged in on my other youtube account. Erik Kramer-Webb@@theboulderhoppers8673
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool So... yes it's unsafe? :/ It seems like that could be fixed by just redirecting the brake strand while belaying as well as lowering? Then it's always in the S shape like belaying from below. I haven't tried it to see how uncomfortable it is, though.
It's safe if the belayer is aware of all the variables in play and has the experience and judgement to use this advanced system. If you redirect while belaying it would be too hard and slow to pull rope through and you'd end up with slack which would put the climber at risk. @@eyescreamcake
Volume is really low
Thank you. I'm not very good at making videos but I can teach trad techniques in person at a high level with a dedication to detail and current professional standards. In fact, all of our guides at California Climbing School are able to teach at a high level of quality and consistency. Please consider taking a class sometime and we can help you raise your climbing to the next level. Thanks again.
audio is terrible. moving onto the next video...
Lol what are you talking about. Your ears are terrible