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The Science of Antidepressants | Sci Guys Podcast
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- Опубліковано 12 лис 2022
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Scientists don't really know how antidepressants work... That sounds shocking but what does it really mean? In this week's episode, we're covering antidepressants and chatting about what scientists do & don't know about them!
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References & Further Reading
"www.nhs.uk/mental-health/cond...
www.nhs.uk/mental-health/cond...
imperialbiosciencereview.com/...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.nhs.uk/mental-health/talk...
www.mind.org.uk/information-s...
www.mind.org.uk/information-s...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19442...
www.cambridge.org/core/journa...
qbi.uq.edu.au/brain/brain-fun...
www.psychologytoday.com/gb/bl...
www.health.harvard.edu/mind-a...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NB...
cks.nice.org.uk/topics/depres...
www.google.com/search?q=antid...
www.google.com/search?q=auton...
www.google.com/search?q=tricy...
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@notcorry / @lukecutforth
I’m currently on paxil, welbutrin and seroquel. Working very hard on my mental health. The frustrating part about not know exactly how antidepressants work is being out on something and hoping it sticks. Not knowing how it’ll affect you for weeks, months or even years to come. The numbness the seroquel brings at night is relieving to the emptiness or overwhelm I feel from depression and trauma.
I was on serequil for a year. I haven’t had any long term health affects surrounding that drug that I’ve noticed. Hang in there because it does get better over time. It’s hard to say but I feel confident in saying I wouldn’t be here if medication was never introduced. It took me years to find the right one for me though. It’s different for everyone but that’s my 2 cents
being less depressed is pretty good
I've tried Citalopram and Sertraline - both SSRIs, both worked for a little while and then just.... weren't doing enough. I'm currently on Venlafaxine (have been for nearly 3 years now I think?) - an SNRI - and it's actually turned me into a (mostly) functioning human.
It was really interesting to hear more about how antidepressants work, thank you!!
(Edited to add that all of those were paired with CBT)
If you do another episode on depression, it'd be cool if you could talk a bit about transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS)! A lot of people aren't aware that it's an option for treatment resistant depression. I've tried probably a dozen antidepressants in my life and none of them worked, so my psychiatrist recommended TMS. I did it in 2020 and it actually helped for a year or two, I might be doing another round soon. I don't fully understand how it works though, I'm not sure if doctors do either lol but it'd be neat to learn more about it :)
Interesting and important fact: there are herbs you should not put in your tea or eat if you are on antidepressents, like St Johns Wort. It messes with it and the eeffect of antidepressents. It does the same with some birth control pills.
Been on antidepressants for 10 years now. I've been depressed on and off since I was 10. I'm on the lowest dose now. Trying to get off it, because I hate that I feel so numb. It's hard because of depression coming back everytime when I try. I hope it's going to workout this time
I've been referred to anti-depressants but was never for them. Probably should be on them now but still won't take them, I have a hard time remembering to take my HRT pills.
i was on sertraline briefly! didn't help, but hearing yall describe depression has done a lot more to remind me to believe my own feelings than every doctor that has diagnosed me. not to be sappy but this has been a really affirming episode, so thanks
Currently on generic Prozac since March 2021. That combined with therapy has helped me so much!🙂
I have had depression still working on things, but I never thought I was depressed. I was quite high functioning with it, but I was just hiding it to not show how I was truely inside. I think its something I will struggle with for most of the rest of my life but knowing what it is, I can make changes when I can see its becoming too much.
I found antipressents stabilized my mood, allowed me to function more, gave me clarity.
I was very similar, was definitely depressed but was dealing with it ok until I wasn't. Things got bad and needed to get help. Of course this coincided with me starting to transition and things just got too much for me. Long term therapy and low dose antidepressants have worked wonders though. It's amazing what we can put up with until a threshold is reached and it suddenly becomes too much.
@@lilyclimbstrees similar, some of due to gender identity and some due to work.
I feel much better about myself, although I am still working out exactly how I want to be seen. Still issues due to work but I know why but not much I can do about that without being unemployed haha.
@@chrisstanley4405 I went down the unemployment route, can't really say I recommend it but it has definitely given me a lot of time to work on my mental health. Of course the anxiety from constantly having hardly any money doesn't help things much.
I take citalopram for my anxiety and depression. I've always been more anxious than depressed. It has helped. I was afraid to be taken off after a year, but now a year and a few months, I'm thinking maybe I should be ready to go off of them. I don't know. I just don't feel like taking them anymore. Lol. I like feeling "normal," but it's like I'm bored with them. 🤷🏻♀️
It is so interesting to me that serotonin & other things we often think of as “brain stuff” also play a role in the digestive system. I wonder if it has been researched whether that aspect plays a role in depression? What if these functions are more correlated than we think and we’ve just been looking in the wrong place the whole time?
Had been on different antidepressants for two years, now off since 2014. At one point I was on three different one's at the same time and none of them seemed to do anything except have horrible side effects (the doctor gave them to me although I was 17 and the medication wasn't even registered for people below 18). Went to a different doctor who just put me on one, but that antidepressant at least helped to make me function. I would probably take the same medication if my depression ever got worse again but I definetly would be more careful with the doctor. Some just seem to throw every new antidepressant at you that they have.
I've never been on antidepressants but I probably should've been/should be 😅
I’m on Effexor (venlafaxine) after lexapro (escitalopram) ended up with me having hallucinations of ants covering the litter box, not sleeping for a month, and getting sun poisoning on my face. It did lower my appetite at first, and when I upped my dose it made me really ill for a few days but other than that, it’s been a much better experience overall. Also with Effexor, the half life is so short that if you don’t take it at the right time every day, you will almost immediately start feeling side effects (headache, fatigue, brain zaps). I know several people that have had an awful time on Effexor, but it’s helped me
4.5 years on antidepressant / antianxiety medication (semisevere depression and semisevere anxiety disorder). 3 years of therapy. Now I have started sloooowly decreasing the amount I'm taking. After consulting doctor, of course.
Worked for me well. Cutted of deepest valleys of sadness/hopelessness. Otherwise, no other effect to mood. About 0.5 years without diagnosable mentalhealth disorders. Now for months I have been actually at so good place that I feel I could survive without medication...but let's see. 3/4 amount of medicine at least seem to be ok, but I am open for possibility of still needing that medication.
Currently on wellbutrin. I have been on Buspar, trazodone, and Remeron
i’ve tried sertraline but it made me super sick and i’ve been prescribed another but going to wait to try it when i’m on break from uni in case it has similar effects
I am on Trintellix and Buspirone for depression and anxiety. Have had this diagnosis since my early 20's and I am 46 now. I have more anxiety than depression due to PTSD from things in my chidhood.
Permanent side effects such as PSSD are a major risk of antidepressants. They have a time and a place but their use needs to be judicious and infrequent.
Have you ever been on antidepressants?
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currently trying to get on some
Yes! More than one. If you brain doesn't want to make the right chemicals store bought is fine 😉
For decades. I’ve tried to get off them but I can’t cope without them
Fortunatelly no. I had depression few years ago but I beat it by myself!
i just stopped taking Zoloft a couple weeks ago after first starting on it. the medication made my depressive symptoms worse and i just couldn’t function in my day to day. i don’t think medication is the route for me personally.
but what a timely upload! the podcast encourages me to hear such in depth conversations on the science i never learned. i even listened once when my anxiety was going crazy (from the zoloft) and the Sci Guys’ digital presence helped calm my brain. appreciate y’all immensely! 💚
My antidepressant is this podcast.
I was on sertraline for a long time to get me through a particularly tough period of my life, I got myself off them because I got into a long term relationship and they were killing my libido...they helped me when I was particularly low but I don't think they fixed, and not sure what would, with the numb aspect of depression so to speak. I found the sertraline chilled me out so I didn't get so low, but it also dulled my positive emotions too. And that is more the characteristic of what I think is the depression I've experienced most of my adult life, probably since being a teenager, I feel like my baseline mood just seems to be lower than other people's. I find myself looking up 'happy pills', something that would be a mood enhancer, because I'm so fed up of being tired and miserable all the time. I know the gym helps, I should go more. If anyone else knows of something that is good for helping with this, I would love to know!
I've been on antidepressants for the last five years and tried a few different kinds.
For those who are just starting to take them my advice is to remember that the side effects do not have to be bad for you to determine that the current dose or drug is not working. If you feel numb or have a really high dose without feeling better it might be good idea to try another drug.
The thing for me was that before I started the I had been depressed quite a while so I actually didn't remember how it felt to feel good. Only when I quit the first one did I realise how much it had numbed my feelings. Ofc I did not feel as bad as before but I didn't feel joy either. That was two years of very high doses of Essitalopram for me.
Now I have Venlafaxin with Voxtra and it has been very good for me. Doesn't make me feel numb and voxtra gives energy to actually do stuff.
And of course I can not stress enough how important it is also to have therapy too. The drug can help you to get out of your house but usually long term solutions to mental health issues require help from qualified therapist too.
Good luck and lots of love for everyone in your healing journeys ❤
I am on amitiptilin for my headaches and it help though not that much with my "Depression"
Im on amitryptiline for my migranes but i use it more for the depression then migranes 😂
Can dpdr and depression go hand in hand?
From what I understand (as a longtime being in mental health world), more severe dissociation, like dpdr and dissociative identity are reactions to trauma. Trauma and depression and anxiety(as well as numerous other things) often coexist
have been on citalpram for over a year now and I'm still not sure it's actually doing anything, but I'm also afraid to go back to the doctor :/
Why are you afraid?
I don’t think Citalopram is particularly strong, it just has a different dosage system
All the SSRIs inc fluoxetine, sertraline, Citalopram are pretty similar although you can react differently to different ones
Venlafaxine was the craziest one I’ve tried
Full on withdrawals if you miss one dose and horrible ‘brain zaps’ and dodgy vision when I was withdrawing
Not to mention the fact it made my restless leg syndrome permanently a lot worse
I find it so funny to hear the pronunciation of these neurotransmitters in English. I study biomedical science so I know these neurotransmitters already but they sound very different in Dutch than in English.
Waiiiit maybe Quantum physics or what the subatomic particles do is following the formula that makes the bigger particles conform and follow the laws of physics?! Like computer code itself usually seems erratic and random and looks like the scribbles of a crazy person but it makes the software function correctly.
💕💕💕
Why do Antidepressants specifically not work for Bipolar?
Lexipro for about... 3 months now, still feel like shit 😫😫😫
Serotonin syndrome lol, never heard about it then got told off because I did the example lol ... Twice... Lol mdma didn't do shiiiiiit on ssri's
Ions are definitely influenced by quantum mechanics! Where are you getting that?? more details later.
@ 20:35 The body didn't "work out" electrical signaling lol, if you dig down to the base physics of what is happening, alllll things are still just moving based on fundamental physics. Ions "pumps" for example, they are not "making a choice to pump ions to stay alive" it's simply happening because the physics is there. (forget the specifics of ions pumps, I believe it's ATP that triggers a transfer of an ion against the gradient, but there's a whole bunch.) But even something simpler, the transfer of salts within the body, that just happens because of osmosis (or simply salts diffusing into all the solvent surrounding it).
It is not like the body "knew" and started working with the behavior of atoms/electrons etc. it's just millions of years of evolution, things that not work die, things that do survive, creating a gradual trend towards the "working" body as we see today. But if you look at the efficiency of it, or simply the structure of where things are, it's pretty bad lol. The way it's stated here gives me "intelligent design" vibes, but it's so unintelligent honestly, (because it quite literal is done without ANY knowledge on what would work) it's amazing and cool to see how it works, but not very intelligent. If I go ahead and assume creationism is true, god is either dumb as fuck or enjoyed watching people die for millions of years before starting to get it right lmao
Oh! and ions are still small enough to be heavily influenced by quantum mechanics...not sure where you are getting that Corry. Quantum mechanics plays a big role in biology. Anything below a mass of about 22 ng (nano grams) is small enough for quantum effects to be non-negligible. a Na ion weighs like 10^-24 kg hahaha, 22 ng is 22x10^-9 kg. I know certain "ion pumps" or other similar things are known to experience quantum tunneling, and this effect is vital for the efficiency for the "pump"
I think you’re taking what was said far too literally & being a bit pedantic here… I’m well aware that the body doesn’t “work out” anything, that all processes are based on physics & chemistry. We constantly talk about how “unintelligent” the design is, I was just showing my personal delight for this one specific process of the body…
When it comes to ions, that’s really an oversight on my part coupled with poor explanation. Usually would catch something like this in the edit, not sure how I let it slip through.
@@SciGuys Another thing regarding this bit, there's no way I'm to know that you are aware of that, most people DO think the body/mind has like an awareness of what it needs to do to stay alive and thrive. Despite hearing you talk about unintelligent design before, it's totally possible you could still think this way regarding biology. Awesome to see you have enough education to know that though! It's just impossible for me to know your level of education. So when hearing you speak very much as if it does, I was confused. But I see now it was more liking the result of the evolution.
I studied biology. You can literally google that.
Destroyed my life these pills.
The episode was just...poorly researched. Not so much "wrong" information, but outdated.
The fact that aromatic compounds were called so because they smell is an old naming thing, they are not called that anymore. It was before the structure of organic compounds was known, now the names are based on the structure of the molecule itself, like all organic compounds basically.
MDMA possibly causing Serotonin syndrome is interesting, did not know MDMA had some SSRI like effects, the much bigger one is LSD, that basically depletes serotonin, that's why if you take it again too soon it most likely wont do anything, and also if you are on an SSRI it's possible LSD wont have an affect on you at all. buuuut even then it's rare, it's almost always a long-term use of a combination of SSRI type meds leading to too much serotonin, very very rarely "acute" syndrome. Another one that can sneak in there, are pain meds such as tramadol (pretty common) or tapentadol, they are opiates but ALSO SSRI effects, that's one you might be needing to take long term as well. Don't go on tramadol if you are already on SSRI!
Also 95% of your serotonin is produced, and used wherever it's needed, in the gut. The serotonin made in the gut is *not exclusively* used in the gut...have no idea where you got that from.
I'm team fluoxetine as well, so sorry they did that to you Luke, that's BS. I just stayed on a low dose, 10-20mg/day. I also did citalopram initially, side effects were worse on that and it has a lower half life so you feel it sooner if you miss a dose yah. Fluoxetine has a long half life, so you generally don't notice if you miss a day or two. It's literally a recommendation for the sexual side effect, called a "drug holiday". Also you *can*==== drink on them :/ lol, you should just start slowly because your tolerance or feel to it might be a bit different (specially citalopram)
1. I was unaware that aromatic is no longer used to broadly describe organic compounds with “aromatic” rings. Most sources I’ve found use the term & it was being used when I last studied organic chemistry in university. If this is what you’re saying then it’s news to me.
However the point was more that the origin for the term is based on the compounds being described tending to have distinct odours. Not that aromatics are currently classified or specifically named for their smell.
2. This isn’t really a correction? Or even an example of poor research? We touched on Serotonin Syndrome just so people are aware that it exists & specifically stated that we could do an entire episode on the topic. The reason we mentioned only illegal drugs is because legal & prescribed drugs will likely be regulated & not taken at the whim of the user. This is based on NHS advice. We didn’t remotely imply that MDMA was the only potential problem drug and actually said to clear any illegal drug with a healthcare professional…
3. Not sure we did say that the serotonin produced in the gut was exclusively used there? Do you have a timestamp for that?
Granted - it should have been mentioned that serotonin is primarily produced in the gut.
4. By you “can’t drink” I’m referencing the fact that many medical associations recommend avoiding alcohol whilst using antidepressants, in part due to alcohol being a depressant & in some cases due to the combination producing somewhat negative effects. We definitely could (& should) have been clearer about this.
These episodes are produced on varying topics every single week. We don’t have a team of expert researchers. We have one person trying to tackle different topics. Of course, we do our best but we’re not so bold as to assume we cannot make mistakes. As such, we are certainly open to criticism & corrections!
However, in this case, these examples of poor/outdated research don’t all seem to entirely hold up?
Comment 2
I think you’re taking what was said far too literally & being a bit pedantic here… I’m well aware that the body doesn’t “work out” anything, that all processes are based on physics & chemistry. We constantly talk about how “unintelligent” the design is, I was just showing my personal delight for this one specific process of the body…
When it comes to ions, that’s really an oversight on my part coupled with poor explanation. Usually would catch something like this in the edit, not sure how I let it slip through.
@@SciGuys
#1 that makes sense ya, probably just a historical use vs. real meaning thing. The names I saw were perhaps like never actually used in practice.
#2 ya that's cuz that was not a correction. that was one thing i actually just liked, hence "...was interesting", sorry for the confusion.
#3 28:10 , said like "serotonin is produced in the gut, but used for something totally different..." to me it very much implies "serotonin is made in brain to do brain things, gut to do gut things". But it could just be me.
#4 yea i guess that's just the problem then, using the word "can't" has a pretty clear meaning, if i can't take the word can't literally then i can't do this AHHHHH lol
Ya that's totally fine, 99% of the episodes I watched were totally fine, but some of the ones were I am knowledgeable about (specifically physics stuff, but also other things) I find mistakes, which is totally fine, this one just had a lot more. I stand behind the mistakes I pointed out, as there were others I didn't as well, but it's not a bad thing really. I don't comment to throw shade, it's more like "these are some things that might have been a little inaccurate, I encourage the viewers to do your own research on them"
And about comment 2:
not sure why you need sort of a "defense" here, this is *science*, it's meant to be literal, factual, etc. you say I'm being too literal and then admit to a mistake I pointed out :/ And I'm aware you have talked about unintelligent design before, which is why that bit felt very out of place and I was surprised.
Anyway, please don't confuse my attempt at corrections with hate! I very much like the show, I just also think it's good to point out potential mistakes as a way of constructive feedback, but also more to the viewers than the creators. But also thanks for taking the time to reply!! :D
We appreciate the response. This isn’t just science; Sci Guys, a comedy science podcast. We are not always entirely literal in our conversations as that’s not how people communicate. We are not aiming to give an absolutely literal listing of facts. We share information & have conversations around it. Sometimes we use similes, metaphors, and speak figuratively to get a point across. You are being too literal if you take an obviously figurative comment as literal & then criticise it as such.
Of course we admit a mistake, it was a mistake, we strive for accuracy in the information we give. We just do more than give absolutely literal science information. Otherwise there’d be no jokes or conversation, it would just be a plain listing of facts & figures.