Hey, thanks so much for watching! Tim Cain recently added some additional context to this video about him taking a look at Van Buren in 2003, please check it out as well: ua-cam.com/video/OwoWRj0cfag/v-deo.htmlsi=XYAni0_ckhyTUoyl Additionally, my next video is about Black Isle's work on their cancelled Baldur's Gate 3, so you're going to want to subscribe! Get in touch here: linktr.ee/luckstat
Hi there. I'm Briosafreak, the guy that organized the Van Buren Leaks, the release of concept art, screenshots and the Alpha Demo for the game. Just wanted to say that this video is quite impressive, didn't saw any of the usual misconceptions or errors that sometimes show up here and there. I still have the original code, art and chat logs from those days, and I really don't have anything to add, so congrats, good work.
Hi! Thank you so much for the kind words! I recognize your screen name from the hours of diving through forums, and I can't thank you enough for the work you've done. Being able to actually play the game turned this project into something truly special
With that rate we would be 2 years away from fo6, but instead we're like 8 years away from fo5 (unless Bethesda outsources it to a more competent developer 🫣🫣)
Well it's funny because Bethesda will focusing their work on elder VI and it estimated to be out on 2026. That mean we wouldn't get a true fallout game like fo3/fnv for a long long time, or perhaps it dies with the greed from fo76. In the meantime we can still enjoy beautiful mod community providing us with tons of gameplay
@@imotekh6110 not really. Main plot and most of locations are nothing alike. Even same ideas like Hoover dam, caesar's legion e.t.c are quite different.
@@TwonklerBlue most of the stuff from VB wasn't reused in Vegas tho. Also there is big difference in been a prototype of something and just having a same name (Like Hoover dam).
@LuckStat First off, sorry for the thread necromancy but wouldn't that be sort of Deuterocanonical? Like, not part of the primary, yet not spin-off. Stuff that is still valid and official happening within the canonical setting but not directly impacting the primary storyline?
I like how, unlike Lonesome Road, the missiles cannot be stopped. There's an inevitability that destruction will happen. But you still have a choice about where that will happen and more importantly whrre it WON'T happen, and deciding such based on whatever you think is best for mankind. Kinda puts you in the same shoes as Mr House in a way.
It's great that so much of Van Buren was recycled to make Fallout New Vegas. Either by being translated into the game or by serving as periphery world-building.
I can imagine having such work put towards Van Buren helped the New Vegas team immensely. I personally prefer the Interplay team over Bethesda when I comes to storytelling but Fallout also needed to become a first person game at that time for it to be successful as it was.
Hi im JoacoN, one of the devs from Revelation Blues, great to see a shotout for the mod from you! It helps a lot to get the mod into peoples mind and create more public interest in it. Work has been very good so far, I joined February 2022, and we are working a lot into a special gift for the communitty
I wonder if Chris Avellone tracks the progress of any of these fan recreations? It must be weird to know there are people activly trying to finish a project you stopped working on years ago.
Its pretty crazy seeing how much if this was evolved and revamped into New Vegas. Additionally how much of the main story inspired the recent tv show to the point the villain are the same in some aspects.
Yeah this is what I was thinking too, I imagine that vault tec is basically going to take the role of the boulder dome scientists, and there was no one to stop their nukes that fell on shady sands
Oblivion will always be in my heart I remember when my dad came through the door and said “my boss man said you wouldn’t beat this in 2 days” took me 7 fucking years
Man, being able to spin the camera around in a traditional CRPG Fallout game would've been so cool! Imagine the unique gameplay and level design opportunities that one change alone could've introduced into the game. 🙁
@@nifftbatuff676 yeah thank god they didnt make FO3 and onwards as isometric view titles, thatswhy i avoid FO1&2, the pixel clicking and round based combat just doesn't fit, it is sooo much better as an fps with VATS, fits so much better including the immersion.
The biggest issue with this project seeing the light of day has been that over the years they messed with different engines, and new projects always ended up starting mostly from scratch again. I really hope PVB sees the light of day.
@@foggy_nights There was a demo that showed the basics that anyone needs to recreate it though. It was 3D Isometric and offered both Turn Based or Real Time With Pause combat. Pillars of Eternity 2 finally brought that combat choice to life, but not in Fallout.
@@LuckStat you should do a video about the retcons and changes in fallout 76 like how mutants exist far sooner than they should due to them being sterile, having been created by the master in southern california in the 2250's i think. yet somehow 25 years after the bombs dropped they are in west virginia
@@specificorb3 in 76 the super mutants aren't created by the master. They're created by some corporation I forget that was doing genetic testing. You can see flesh super mutants in pods and everything. Never played fallout 2 so don't know much about the master.
@@specificorb3I'm not sure that's a retcon when it's already implied in fallout 4 that super mutants and the FEV that cause them were already being worked on before the war.
Fantastic video, dude. Loved the black and white PD footage to tell the story, and the TV clips too. The B-roll is great too. So much effort here. Absolutely love it.
@@VintageSeanTV I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this, this is Desert Empire Part 1 a documentary on the state of Utah from 1948 archive.org/details/DesertEm1948
the games 50’s mad max premise at its core was very inspired but that’s only multiplied by all the unique weapons, mechanics npcs, enemies and antagonists
This really hammers home the fact that Interplay committed grand larceny on every crpg fan in the early 2000s through hubris and mismanagement. Does anyone remember any other title that Interplay was responsible for other than Fallout, Descent and the infinity engine games?
I always chuckle when people who are way too reactionary cry non stop about Bethesda. Don't get me wrong, 4 is one of the most lackluster games ever and 76 is a bad case of "what did you think was going to happen?" (though I must admit, I can actually enjoy 76 unlike 4). But they never signed off on Fallout: BoS, never thought "Fallout: Extreame" sounded like a great idea, nor actually paid people to pen a terrible script for what was definately going to be a terrible movie. I remeber a time when I was pretty sure Fallout as a whole was completely dead, and all that was left aside from 1, 2, Tactics, and the regrettable BoS were a bunch of stupid ideas for stupid canceled games. Games like Fallout: Extreame, and a BoS direction that made Bethesda's story choices look restrained. Then 3 drops, then we get New Vegas. Hopefully the next game can recapture some of that magic. Untill then I recomend Wastelands 2, Wastelands 3 (imagine Tactics with an actual dialog tree and better story), and Underrail (imagine Metro by way of Fallout 1 but with Psychic Powers!)
Here's a cool connection: John Gonzalez was the lead creative designer for New Vegas, and the narrative director for Horizon Zero Dawn. Now consider the parallels between the Nora of HZD and the Twin Mothers in Van Buren. Could it be that some of HZD's story is continuing Van Buren's legacy?
Thank you so much for watching! If you like what you saw please consider subscribing and telling a friend! CORRECTION: At 15:09 this isn't a photo of Chris Jones, co-founder of Obsidian, it's of another Chris Jones who worked as an artist on Fallout 2 Special Shoutout to Uninteresting Films and Eleven 17 Studios for lending their voice, check them out here www.youtube.com/@Eleven17Studios www.youtube.com/@JordansFilms1 Here are some special links: linktr.ee/luckstat
I have got to say that this video was a beautiful nod to fallout in every context. I haven’t enjoyed a video like this in a longtime. Really well thought out and made. Makes me want to play fallout from start to finish.
compassionate but still realistic. it's easy to romanticize or idealize something that never actually happen - you don't have to deal with a buggy launch ruining expectations like Cyberpunk 2077, you don't have to deal with an underwhelming realization of an amazing idea like the OG Fable. That we got A Fallout 3 at all, let alone New Vegas, is more than enough for me personally.
Exactly. The more I learn about FNV's deep ties with the original series, the more I am grateful Bethesda had the lapse of brilliance to allow Obsidian to have free rein on what's essentially a perfect amalgam of the old and new Fallouts. I would really like if Bethesda gave them more opportunities like this.
This is such a good deep dive! I love the level of detail and research and the last detail about the story being about people in this, at times, chaotic hobby we've grown to love. The algorithm has blessed me!
Very nice video production, making me feel like I need to put in more effort now! Appreciate the Project Van Buren mention aswell! Don't think Adam has left a comment here but he's the one that brought this up, so safe to say he enjoyed it too. Keep it up!
Like many who will probably be commenting today, I found this video because Tim Cain linked it in his video about the part he played in Van Buren's cancellation. I have to say, I'm really impressed with your writing, research and production values here. It's a crime you have so few subs as you do when you're putting out quality stuff like this. But you've got at least one more now! 😉 Keep up the great work!
Awesome video, getting a deep dive on the plot of Van Buren made me realize what Chris meant on twitter when he said he felt his soul die seeing the ending to the fallout show. What the show does to Vault Tec is almost identical to the plot of the main villains of Van Buren, so it must have devastated Chris to see a different team essentially take credit for an idea he already had and had the intention to actually make over 20 years ago.
I will always remember playing Fallout and Baldur's Gate in early 2000s. Then both their sequels. I love these games. Nostalgia evokes powerful feelings, thank you very much for this video. Subscribed and waiting for The Black Hound video.
It kind of fascinates me how the Wasteland series was basically turned into the spiritual successor of its own spiritual successor. Or, more specifically, because of the tone, the atmosphere and the writing, the spiritual successor of a sequel to its own spiritual successor. And, considering how Wasteland 3 has a gang of killer clowns, it might be a jab at Fountain of Dreams which was itself considered by EA a sequel to Wasteland for some time and which had killer clowns as one of the strongest enemy types which became a one of the most widespread points of ridicule of that particuar title. The whole situation is just so fascinating
A spiritual successor of its spiritual successor is such an interesting concept. I'm not sure if I can think of another example of that happening in games
Van Buren was actually my first Fallout. I wanted to play Fallout 3 but my pc couldnt run it, so I was looking around and somehow found the van buren prototype so that's what I played lol
i like the sweetness of the bittersweet end to the Van Buren saga you found, much like the intended original ending for Van Buren itself! i'm so happy Fallout is where it is though and am thrilled to get to play New Vegas over and over again forever
Bitter part: Had Van Buren was finished, it could've been a successful game that let developers keep their creation under their control and not let Bethesda ruin it. Sweet part: We got New Vegas from all this mess.
always love to see stuff that sheds light on things like this where the average fan wouldnt think to research so deeply or havent heard about it at all also love that much of the game design was driven by a TTRPG campaign though im sure it was very common for CRPGs since they were obviously based on them
I’ve lost count of how many times I watched this. This is a great video on Van Buren. Just to let you know, the luckstat site for this episode, keeps taking me to the assassins’s creed one. Stellar work!!
28:12 Fallout Online Engine isn't made by Interplay, but by Anton Cvetinsky (cvet), a Russian programmer who developed the engine and put Fallout graphics on top on it. He started the FOnline community that still lasts, even though the two original servers TLA and FOnline 2238 are long gone. He later released a SDK as Open Source, that the Fallout Yesterday is based on.
Nice video! Even though Fallout 1&2 were formative games for me, I didn't follow the history of the company's struggles and projects after that very closely, so it's good to catch up. I do remember seeing the Fallout 3 news articles in the gaming magazine I used to buy, including that recurring screenshot of the menu screen.
3:22 Chris Avellone is not only a Falllout dev but also was made into a character in Fallout (1998). When you reached at him in the game, no dialogue was possible but if you insisted on clicking his character (three times, if I remember correctly), he would attack you after warning you about getting bothered. Inside joke, I guess...
Despite what a lot of Fallout friends say, I found your essay unique. There are a lot of retirees complaining about BGS, but if they hadn't purchased the rights and updated the gameplay, Fallout would simply not exist today.
Kidding aside, I think you’re right. Without Black Isle, Interplay’s plans for the franchise weren’t more games like Fallout 1 and 2, it was more Brotherhood of Steel. Say what you will about the Fallout 3 we got but at bare minimum it was better than BOS
@LuckStat I rarely make any comments on videos, but I've been playing Fallout since 97ish. I have enjoyed all the main Fallout games since then. The fill in titles are mostly garbage. None of those were made by BGS. BGS deserves much credit for keeping the game alive. Even with Todd Howard at the helm, the games are still great.
Hi, PJ Hexer here, project lead of Van Buren in Fallout 2 engine called Fallout Yesterday. Thank you so much for featuring the project and kind words! ☢️ Also, I want to shed some light on Brian Fargo’s copyright of Van Buren name. What happened in 2014, when we were still using the Fonline engine, someone from RPGCodex showed him our demo and that’s when he copyrighted the name. He never reached out to us so we don’t really know why he did it. But back then, the team thought he wanted to make sure we don’t do anything on “his turf” without his involvement. Perhaps because we used Fonline engine, he assumed we were planning on selling it or something? Who knows? Anyways, it will remain a mystery until he addresses it.
Thanks for stopping by PJ! I'm very excited to see what you cook up, it seems like a really cool project. Also appreciate the added context around the Van Buren copyright. That would definitely explain why he didn't actually do anything with it despite developing games that could've easily been his own "Van Buren." I'll add it to the far too long list of questions I would ask him if I ever run into him!
@@LuckStat That would be great! Also worth investigating further are some uncanny similarities between Van Buren and Horizon Zero Dawn. Interestingly, John Gonzalez, the lead HZD writer, worked on FNV as lead creative designer prior to that which means he had to read Van Buren design documents. Definitively ask him about that if you get a chance, some of us would be curious to hear what he has to say.
Honestly van buren is so interesting even though it was never finished its also fascinating seeing all the concepts that were reused for later games and how alot of its lore got canonised with new vegas.
Your channel is so criminally underrated, your content quality is great, especially for a channel with 4k subs, keep up the great work, I'm sure that the recognition that you deserve is definitely already on the horizon, you just got yourself a new subscriber
This was probably the most amazing way to see these cancel games shown right thank you for this vid as long time interplay gamer this made me happy while also very sad
In light of the fallout series and all of the interplay based lore they chose to go with im really hoping for this era of fallout to make a comeback soon. Im not an avid hate of bethesda era like most people since it was my introduction, but i cant help but love and even long for the concepts of all of these original games. I really appreciate how much versatility all of this real life history brought to the fallout experience, i really hope it starts branching out and we maybe even see a day where Bethesda starts giving a space to the old creators again and work together to create a much needed love child. Both have had such fun and creative qualities, i could only imagine the kind of game we'd get if they came together properly.
Shout-out to Atomic Postman's Van Buren 170 pages pdf fleshing out the original idea and making it fit with current Fallout New Vegas Lore, available in NoMutantsallowed. may he rest in peace
It is sad that Van Buren didn't come out but thanks to its cancellation we ended up with the amazing Fallout NV. Remember that Titus Interactive the French publisher that bought Interplay was the same one that release Superman 64. Titus completely mismanaged Interplay and ruined what was left.
It blows my mind that I've played and loved games from all these companies. Played games from all these people, who all were at Interplay. It almost brings a tear to my eye
Holy fuck is your name actually goated. Like actually. Brilliant UA-cam name man. I haven’t even gotten two minutes in and I’m impressed af. The editing is so fucking good. The VO sounds great! Keep up the UA-cam grind! You got this one in the bag
Believe it or not, the crew originally wanted to do something else on the East coast but Bethesda said they didn't want Obsidian to do that because they wanted to do something there. So their plan B was to break out the Van Buren script and use that for their new game. End Result? Bethesda is jealous that Obsidian did a better Fallout game then they ever could.
New Vegas is the sequel to Van Burens story. If you actually read the docs, it sets up a lot of its story. Hoover dam ran by mutants, Legion as just tribes, etc.
Sawyer REALLY likes going back and forth on this mindset of what happened with NV. For awhile after it released, he tried to crucify Bethesda saying they weren't given enough time, a statement he would basically handwave away in future interviews. Which is true, they had an engine, assets and somewhat established lore hand deliveried to them to build the game with. Hell even recently Sawyer seems to be very positives towards Bethesda, possibly hinting that he might want something to do with an anticipated new game
It's so strange to see that Eagle @9:30 with so little around it... There are just skyscrapers now all around it. I wonder what Salt Lake would have looked like after the bombs dropped. I've always wondered if we'll get to see it someday in the games.
When you said Baldur's Gate III's Jefferson Engine, I realized interplay worked on a canned BG3. If anyone here has seen Larian Studio's new attempt at Baldur's Gate, I'm sure they'll agree with me that Larian needs to be given an Old School Fallout a shot. Larian is literally the single best company in the industry as far as turn-based CRPG's go these days. They'd fuckin kill it.
@@cal5365 what the fuck. You did see the trash the original BG3 was gonna be, right? That was gonna be based on 3e DnD. BG3 by Larian uses 5e DnD rules, which are muuuuuch better. Sure I agree that BG 1 was better (im a huge fan of the ADnD 2e ruleset myself), but Larian's BG3 knocks the original one out of the water
@@paulstein8854 I dont mind the ruleset and mechanics, its more the entire awful game they built around it. It looks awaful, the companions and characters are awful etc. Far prefer something like Owlcat did with Pathfinder
Really solid video, I hadn't ever heard very much about Van Buren, so I learned alot! And your b-roll is seamless, I liked how you got the star trek footage in there; it flows really well!
Stupid question, honestly, but does anyone know the name of the font used in that map in the intro as 00:11, for the text "COLORADO SPRINGS PIKES PEAK REGION"? It's really common in American documents, especially military ones, and I have no idea what it is (but it's beautiful). It has the perfectly round 'O' like Futura, but I'm not sure that's what it is.
Glad to see another font geek in the wild What The Font didn’t provide me with much luck, but if I find that map in a few weeks I’ll get a cleaner grab and try again. To me it looks like a bold helvetica or even Boston heavy (which has always reminded me of a softer edged Futura and I believe is the font I used in the fake Van Buren logo iirc). The G without the base throws me off, though I’m not sure if you’ve encountered this video before but Phil Edwards covered the NASA Graphics Standards Press Kit and some of the Post Office stuff from the 70s which may provide a starting point: ua-cam.com/video/HAKsoiHR8JU/v-deo.htmlsi=qQ6XmOqYq-ABdDYu
@@LuckStat Dude, that link is right up my street! Something about the font used in that map really grabs me. I know they used Futura way back, even during WW2, and Helvetica is definitively post-war. Boston Heavy does have the beautiful, circular letter O, I wasn't familiar with the font but I love it. I'm not American, grew up in a different graphic design culture; I find American graphic design, especially WW2 onwards, very interesting and different. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a font nerd, but I'm fascinated by things like signs, information plaques and warning graphics, uniforms, the way stuff is presented to the public in general. It's not the most glamorous thing in the world, but does require human effort that often goes completely unnoticed. When it's done right, it really grabs you, and when it's done wrong, it really hurts to look at.
I see a lot of inspiration from this game being used in later entries. For starters, Presper's faction is a mix between the institute and the think tank
I it was… inevitable that Van Buren would be written by the people who created it, one way or another. The story of the games development along with the destruction of the company creating it resulting in the lose of the game just for a rebirth of the company to rebirth the game but in a different way…. History doesn’t repeat itself, it only rhymes.
“It’s very likely Bethesda’s second best game behind whatever Elder Scrolls title you played first” That’s a good line lol. I’ve always said that about people’s favorite elder scrolls game is based off the same thing
so that means..... Ulysses from Lonesome RD is a synth with the personality of Ulysses(VAN BUREN/CANON FALLOUT)(the good side he wasn't able to tap in, almost like Brain with Desmond from the Far Harbor DLC how they took his conscious and put it in on a brain so he could technically continue "living".) Also explains why Ulysses wears a mouth mask. Almost like to translate the sound of his voice from robot/synth to human to make him sound more believable and human. You should look into this because I truly believe this is a grave possibility because at the end of the Day the NCR is the United States and even in Fallout Lore our government was still running covert hidden projects. And the NCR probably used the Courier because of how revered he was in the Wasteland to clear the lonesome rd for their safe travels. At the end of the day the NCR means Good but other than their High Ranking Snipers they are quite pathetic with the likes of the Enclave and Brotherhood of Steel. My guess. Cheers.
Hey, thanks so much for watching! Tim Cain recently added some additional context to this video about him taking a look at Van Buren in 2003, please check it out as well:
ua-cam.com/video/OwoWRj0cfag/v-deo.htmlsi=XYAni0_ckhyTUoyl
Additionally, my next video is about Black Isle's work on their cancelled Baldur's Gate 3, so you're going to want to subscribe!
Get in touch here: linktr.ee/luckstat
Sounds great, looking forward. Thanks for your hard work!
I get obsessed with Rainbow Six Patriots every so often so I'm definitely looking forward to that!
Im interested!
@@SeedSnatcher It's out now! ua-cam.com/video/Sb0GbIBTsgo/v-deo.htmlsi=NafpnhaG3u0o5sV_
Hi there. I'm Briosafreak, the guy that organized the Van Buren Leaks, the release of concept art, screenshots and the Alpha Demo for the game. Just wanted to say that this video is quite impressive, didn't saw any of the usual misconceptions or errors that sometimes show up here and there. I still have the original code, art and chat logs from those days, and I really don't have anything to add, so congrats, good work.
Hi! Thank you so much for the kind words! I recognize your screen name from the hours of diving through forums, and I can't thank you enough for the work you've done. Being able to actually play the game turned this project into something truly special
Pls make a mod from it, like fallout new mexico. The Van Buren story sounds awesome.
Did you work at interplay or just know someone there?
@@plaidchuck we knew lots of people there
Sorry if this is a dumb question but where can I see this complication?
"It would be the last fallout game for nearly 5 years"
I love how that sounds like a long time, yet we havent had a regular mainline game since 2015
With that rate we would be 2 years away from fo6, but instead we're like 8 years away from fo5 (unless Bethesda outsources it to a more competent developer 🫣🫣)
@@johngardner3758 me when I'm retarded
@@The_Cloud_District11 But doesn't hold a damn candle to an Obsidian Fallout game. Cope harder and choke more on it.
Well it's funny because Bethesda will focusing their work on elder VI and it estimated to be out on 2026.
That mean we wouldn't get a true fallout game like fo3/fnv for a long long time, or perhaps it dies with the greed from fo76.
In the meantime we can still enjoy beautiful mod community providing us with tons of gameplay
@@The_Cloud_District11 local man gives worst take, asked to leave community
Me listening to the plot of van buren: "Holy shit, these guys should play that new vegas game"
New Vegas is kind of a sequel to van buren
@XxSTACKxX It could be considered a proto-New Vegas. The raw ideas that began and were held close until they could be used again.
@@imotekh6110 not really. Main plot and most of locations are nothing alike. Even same ideas like Hoover dam, caesar's legion e.t.c are quite different.
@@pantonearqm2791 that's why he said prototype, a vision of what COULD be
@@TwonklerBlue most of the stuff from VB wasn't reused in Vegas tho. Also there is big difference in been a prototype of something and just having a same name (Like Hoover dam).
The thing about New vegas, not only is not Van Buren, but its more of a sequel, asuming some events of Van Buren as past events.
Yeah, this is what I was thinking as well. It's weird to have a game that wasn't made be *almost* canon.
@LuckStat First off, sorry for the thread necromancy but wouldn't that be sort of Deuterocanonical? Like, not part of the primary, yet not spin-off. Stuff that is still valid and official happening within the canonical setting but not directly impacting the primary storyline?
In a way, New Vegas is the true Fallout 4
@@tikalthewhimsicott2736 I mean honestly I consider New Vegas to be the true Fallout 3 and 3&4 to be spinoffs. Much easier to enjoy that way
I like how, unlike Lonesome Road, the missiles cannot be stopped. There's an inevitability that destruction will happen. But you still have a choice about where that will happen and more importantly whrre it WON'T happen, and deciding such based on whatever you think is best for mankind.
Kinda puts you in the same shoes as Mr House in a way.
I haven't played Lonesome Road in a while but I remember being able to stop the nukes. I think that you had to sacrifice your Eddie in order to do so.
pretty sure you can, you get bos fame for it as well as fame with the followers
@@vall182They said UNLIKE Lonesome Road. Theyre talking about the ending of Van Buren.
@@StokelingThey said UNLIKE Lonesome Road. Theyre talking about the ending of Van Buren.
@@vall182that’s not what they’re saying.
It's great that so much of Van Buren was recycled to make Fallout New Vegas. Either by being translated into the game or by serving as periphery world-building.
I can imagine having such work put towards Van Buren helped the New Vegas team immensely. I personally prefer the Interplay team over Bethesda when I comes to storytelling but Fallout also needed to become a first person game at that time for it to be successful as it was.
Hi im JoacoN, one of the devs from Revelation Blues, great to see a shotout for the mod from you! It helps a lot to get the mod into peoples mind and create more public interest in it.
Work has been very good so far, I joined February 2022, and we are working a lot into a special gift for the communitty
That's great to hear, JoacoN! I'm really looking forward to what you all cook up!
So that's where Arcade from Fallout NV had his roots since Obsidian is comprised of former Black Isle employees
He was directly Josh Sawyers creation.
@@brysonkuervers2570 tbh arcade looks like a blonde josh sawyer
I wonder if Chris Avellone tracks the progress of any of these fan recreations? It must be weird to know there are people activly trying to finish a project you stopped working on years ago.
He does follow a couple of the creators on Twitter, so more than likely he's at least seen Project Van Buren
Well fans completed Kotor 2 where he was the main writer
They can't finish his project though, theyre all starting their own forks
I believe so
@@varvarvarvarvarvarmaybe they should start there own spoons than.
Its pretty crazy seeing how much if this was evolved and revamped into New Vegas. Additionally how much of the main story inspired the recent tv show to the point the villain are the same in some aspects.
I side with thé thé enclave you do you bro
Yeah this is what I was thinking too, I imagine that vault tec is basically going to take the role of the boulder dome scientists, and there was no one to stop their nukes that fell on shady sands
“Behind whatever Elder Scrolls game you played first.” It hurts because it’s true.
Oblivion will always be in my heart I remember when my dad came through the door and said “my boss man said you wouldn’t beat this in 2 days” took me 7 fucking years
Man, being able to spin the camera around in a traditional CRPG Fallout game would've been so cool! Imagine the unique gameplay and level design opportunities that one change alone could've introduced into the game. 🙁
OSRS is a good example.
It's a pain in the ass.
@@nifftbatuff676 yeah thank god they didnt make FO3 and onwards as isometric view titles, thatswhy i avoid FO1&2, the pixel clicking and round based combat just doesn't fit, it is sooo much better as an fps with VATS, fits so much better including the immersion.
Would've saved me all that time I spent hugging the southern wall of buildings to make sure the wall isn't obscuring any objects
Lil takodachi
The biggest issue with this project seeing the light of day has been that over the years they messed with different engines, and new projects always ended up starting mostly from scratch again. I really hope PVB sees the light of day.
A lot of these projects never finish
@@XxSTACKxXafaik NONE of them have so far
And the engine last left off had no actual game releases for the community to learn from :/
@@foggy_nights There was a demo that showed the basics that anyone needs to recreate it though. It was 3D Isometric and offered both Turn Based or Real Time With Pause combat. Pillars of Eternity 2 finally brought that combat choice to life, but not in Fallout.
16:23. "And the last Fallout for nearly 5 years" We really have come full circle haven't we?
Oof, I can't believe it's been that long since 76
@@LuckStat you should do a video about the retcons and changes in fallout 76 like how mutants exist far sooner than they should due to them being sterile, having been created by the master in southern california in the 2250's i think. yet somehow 25 years after the bombs dropped they are in west virginia
@@LuckStat 76 was so awful
@@specificorb3 in 76 the super mutants aren't created by the master. They're created by some corporation I forget that was doing genetic testing. You can see flesh super mutants in pods and everything. Never played fallout 2 so don't know much about the master.
@@specificorb3I'm not sure that's a retcon when it's already implied in fallout 4 that super mutants and the FEV that cause them were already being worked on before the war.
Also, Fallout New Mexico, a mod being developed for FNV, has elements from the original Van Buren docs, like their own version of the Tibbet's prison
Playing as a super mutant would be so cool.
Fantastic video, dude. Loved the black and white PD footage to tell the story, and the TV clips too. The B-roll is great too. So much effort here. Absolutely love it.
Oh and that "whatever Elder Scrolls you game played first" is bang on ☺️
Does anyone know what movie(s) he used clips from at 8:09 is called?
@@VintageSeanTV I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this, this is Desert Empire Part 1 a documentary on the state of Utah from 1948
archive.org/details/DesertEm1948
Nice B-Rolls! Usually people just put generic royalty free stock clips but I like that you actually put in effort to fit the fallout setting
i agree i want to know what these films are now
It's insane how creative Fallout is.
the games 50’s mad max premise at its core was very inspired but that’s only multiplied by all the unique weapons, mechanics npcs, enemies and antagonists
Also the retrofuturism. Inspiration from pulp sci-fi and the atomic age. It's like the Jetsons, but atomic age instead of space age
Damn so New Vegas seems like a revived Van Buren but things are different
More refined versions of the ideas in Van Buren. It's very cool.
This really hammers home the fact that Interplay committed grand larceny on every crpg fan in the early 2000s through hubris and mismanagement. Does anyone remember any other title that Interplay was responsible for other than Fallout, Descent and the infinity engine games?
Interplay had the Star Trek license in the 90s. Made some great games. Most of them are on Steam or GOG.
I always chuckle when people who are way too reactionary cry non stop about Bethesda.
Don't get me wrong, 4 is one of the most lackluster games ever and 76 is a bad case of "what did you think was going to happen?" (though I must admit, I can actually enjoy 76 unlike 4). But they never signed off on Fallout: BoS, never thought "Fallout: Extreame" sounded like a great idea, nor actually paid people to pen a terrible script for what was definately going to be a terrible movie.
I remeber a time when I was pretty sure Fallout as a whole was completely dead, and all that was left aside from 1, 2, Tactics, and the regrettable BoS were a bunch of stupid ideas for stupid canceled games. Games like Fallout: Extreame, and a BoS direction that made Bethesda's story choices look restrained. Then 3 drops, then we get New Vegas. Hopefully the next game can recapture some of that magic. Untill then I recomend Wastelands 2, Wastelands 3 (imagine Tactics with an actual dialog tree and better story), and Underrail (imagine Metro by way of Fallout 1 but with Psychic Powers!)
I remember them working on some titles with Blizzard, in the early 90's when Blizzard was still à small studio.
Ya, Arcanum, steam works of magic and obscura...
But nobody else seems to remember it. 😂
@@alnu8355what the fuck does the original comment have to do with Bethesda
Here's a cool connection: John Gonzalez was the lead creative designer for New Vegas, and the narrative director for Horizon Zero Dawn. Now consider the parallels between the Nora of HZD and the Twin Mothers in Van Buren. Could it be that some of HZD's story is continuing Van Buren's legacy?
Oooh that’s pretty cool
Thank you so much for watching! If you like what you saw please consider subscribing and telling a friend!
CORRECTION: At 15:09 this isn't a photo of Chris Jones, co-founder of Obsidian, it's of another Chris Jones who worked as an artist on Fallout 2
Special Shoutout to Uninteresting Films and Eleven 17 Studios for lending their voice, check them out here
www.youtube.com/@Eleven17Studios
www.youtube.com/@JordansFilms1
Here are some special links:
linktr.ee/luckstat
I have got to say that this video was a beautiful nod to fallout in every context. I haven’t enjoyed a video like this in a longtime. Really well thought out and made. Makes me want to play fallout from start to finish.
Really appreciate the kind words, Peter!
compassionate but still realistic. it's easy to romanticize or idealize something that never actually happen - you don't have to deal with a buggy launch ruining expectations like Cyberpunk 2077, you don't have to deal with an underwhelming realization of an amazing idea like the OG Fable. That we got A Fallout 3 at all, let alone New Vegas, is more than enough for me personally.
Exactly. The more I learn about FNV's deep ties with the original series, the more I am grateful Bethesda had the lapse of brilliance to allow Obsidian to have free rein on what's essentially a perfect amalgam of the old and new Fallouts. I would really like if Bethesda gave them more opportunities like this.
This is such a good deep dive! I love the level of detail and research and the last detail about the story being about people in this, at times, chaotic hobby we've grown to love. The algorithm has blessed me!
1:38 Tim Cain has explained that Fallout was inspired by many things, of which Wasteland was one.
Very nice video production, making me feel like I need to put in more effort now! Appreciate the Project Van Buren mention aswell! Don't think Adam has left a comment here but he's the one that brought this up, so safe to say he enjoyed it too. Keep it up!
He posted it over on twitter, I saw! Thank you!
@@LuckStat ah I missed that, he sent it in the Van Buren research discord
Like many who will probably be commenting today, I found this video because Tim Cain linked it in his video about the part he played in Van Buren's cancellation. I have to say, I'm really impressed with your writing, research and production values here. It's a crime you have so few subs as you do when you're putting out quality stuff like this. But you've got at least one more now! 😉 Keep up the great work!
Thanks so much for this video. I'm glad to see that Project Van Buren is still moving along!
Me too! Lacko as well recently announced that he's working full time with New Blood on their Fallout 1 inspired game. Really looking forward to both!
Outstanding stuff man. Gotta love fandom and how hard they work to preserve creators original vision.
Awesome video, getting a deep dive on the plot of Van Buren made me realize what Chris meant on twitter when he said he felt his soul die seeing the ending to the fallout show. What the show does to Vault Tec is almost identical to the plot of the main villains of Van Buren, so it must have devastated Chris to see a different team essentially take credit for an idea he already had and had the intention to actually make over 20 years ago.
I will always remember playing Fallout and Baldur's Gate in early 2000s. Then both their sequels. I love these games. Nostalgia evokes powerful feelings, thank you very much for this video.
Subscribed and waiting for The Black Hound video.
Sorry this took a whole year, friend. The Black Hound video is out now!
ua-cam.com/video/GDDrf2w6a10/v-deo.htmlsi=ribCnF6GdtktPSYg
@@LuckStat wow, you really did it! I'm watching it now.
It kind of fascinates me how the Wasteland series was basically turned into the spiritual successor of its own spiritual successor. Or, more specifically, because of the tone, the atmosphere and the writing, the spiritual successor of a sequel to its own spiritual successor. And, considering how Wasteland 3 has a gang of killer clowns, it might be a jab at Fountain of Dreams which was itself considered by EA a sequel to Wasteland for some time and which had killer clowns as one of the strongest enemy types which became a one of the most widespread points of ridicule of that particuar title. The whole situation is just so fascinating
A spiritual successor of its spiritual successor is such an interesting concept. I'm not sure if I can think of another example of that happening in games
Van Buren was actually my first Fallout. I wanted to play Fallout 3 but my pc couldnt run it, so I was looking around and somehow found the van buren prototype so that's what I played lol
This is such an interesting video. Awesome job man!! I appreciate the Revelation Blues mention!
Anything we can do to get eyes on your hard work!
i like the sweetness of the bittersweet end to the Van Buren saga you found, much like the intended original ending for Van Buren itself!
i'm so happy Fallout is where it is though and am thrilled to get to play New Vegas over and over again forever
Bitter part: Had Van Buren was finished, it could've been a successful game that let developers keep their creation under their control and not let Bethesda ruin it.
Sweet part: We got New Vegas from all this mess.
@@danielsurvivor1372 Bethesda didn't ruin it but ok
@@superdrinkingpepsi They recently did ruin the Franchise with F76, and they fucked up the story with F4
@damsen978 Yes I do
@damsen978 Lol yes
always love to see stuff that sheds light on things like this where the average fan wouldnt think to research so deeply or havent heard about it at all
also love that much of the game design was driven by a TTRPG campaign though im sure it was very common for CRPGs since they were obviously based on them
This documentary was just shouted out by Tim Cain himself! Very well done.
idk why you are using black and white footage of star trek TOS but it weirdly fits perfectly
I’ve lost count of how many times I watched this. This is a great video on Van Buren. Just to let you know, the luckstat site for this episode, keeps taking me to the assassins’s creed one. Stellar work!!
Appreciate that! Should be fixed now
28:12 Fallout Online Engine isn't made by Interplay, but by Anton Cvetinsky (cvet), a Russian programmer who developed the engine and put Fallout graphics on top on it. He started the FOnline community that still lasts, even though the two original servers TLA and FOnline 2238 are long gone.
He later released a SDK as Open Source, that the Fallout Yesterday is based on.
Thank you for this info and correction! I had it confused with the V13 MMO stuff that Interplay was working on
I WISHHH you could choose to be a super mutant, human, or ghoul in modern fallout games......
For all the weird stuff 76 has done, I’m really surprised they haven’t at least tried this
My favorite New Vegas mod is Ghoulified for this very reason
Fallout 76 is adding the Ghoul as a playable class
Nice video! Even though Fallout 1&2 were formative games for me, I didn't follow the history of the company's struggles and projects after that very closely, so it's good to catch up. I do remember seeing the Fallout 3 news articles in the gaming magazine I used to buy, including that recurring screenshot of the menu screen.
3:22 Chris Avellone is not only a Falllout dev but also was made into a character in Fallout (1998).
When you reached at him in the game, no dialogue was possible but if you insisted on clicking his character (three times, if I remember correctly), he would attack you after warning you about getting bothered.
Inside joke, I guess...
Despite what a lot of Fallout friends say, I found your essay unique. There are a lot of retirees complaining about BGS, but if they hadn't purchased the rights and updated the gameplay, Fallout would simply not exist today.
Are there people saying my video isn’t unique? Do you all have a group chat I’m not in?
Kidding aside, I think you’re right. Without Black Isle, Interplay’s plans for the franchise weren’t more games like Fallout 1 and 2, it was more Brotherhood of Steel. Say what you will about the Fallout 3 we got but at bare minimum it was better than BOS
@LuckStat I rarely make any comments on videos, but I've been playing Fallout since 97ish. I have enjoyed all the main Fallout games since then. The fill in titles are mostly garbage. None of those were made by BGS. BGS deserves much credit for keeping the game alive. Even with Todd Howard at the helm, the games are still great.
Wow, that was quite the ride mate. as you know im not the biggest fallout fan but this video makes me want to check them out!
Hi, PJ Hexer here, project lead of Van Buren in Fallout 2 engine called Fallout Yesterday. Thank you so much for featuring the project and kind words! ☢️
Also, I want to shed some light on Brian Fargo’s copyright of Van Buren name. What happened in 2014, when we were still using the Fonline engine, someone from RPGCodex showed him our demo and that’s when he copyrighted the name. He never reached out to us so we don’t really know why he did it. But back then, the team thought he wanted to make sure we don’t do anything on “his turf” without his involvement. Perhaps because we used Fonline engine, he assumed we were planning on selling it or something? Who knows? Anyways, it will remain a mystery until he addresses it.
Thanks for stopping by PJ! I'm very excited to see what you cook up, it seems like a really cool project.
Also appreciate the added context around the Van Buren copyright. That would definitely explain why he didn't actually do anything with it despite developing games that could've easily been his own "Van Buren." I'll add it to the far too long list of questions I would ask him if I ever run into him!
@@LuckStat That would be great! Also worth investigating further are some uncanny similarities between Van Buren and Horizon Zero Dawn. Interestingly, John Gonzalez, the lead HZD writer, worked on FNV as lead creative designer prior to that which means he had to read Van Buren design documents. Definitively ask him about that if you get a chance, some of us would be curious to hear what he has to say.
I don't know why but when I hear the Outer Worls soundtrack I get Fallout New Vegas nostalgia.
It's amazing how much of New Vegas was inspired by Van Buren. Its so fantastic and so interesting to see all the different elements in it.
This vid is gold. Incredible piece of work.
Honestly van buren is so interesting even though it was never finished its also fascinating seeing all the concepts that were reused for later games and how alot of its lore got canonised with new vegas.
thanks for putting this together!
Your channel is so criminally underrated, your content quality is great, especially for a channel with 4k subs, keep up the great work, I'm sure that the recognition that you deserve is definitely already on the horizon, you just got yourself a new subscriber
Thank you for the subtitles
With baldurs gate 3 recently it showed people still love Crpgs. Its honestly a shame we'll never see an official fallout back in that style
This was probably the most amazing way to see these cancel games shown right thank you for this vid as long time interplay gamer this made me happy while also very sad
In light of the fallout series and all of the interplay based lore they chose to go with im really hoping for this era of fallout to make a comeback soon. Im not an avid hate of bethesda era like most people since it was my introduction, but i cant help but love and even long for the concepts of all of these original games. I really appreciate how much versatility all of this real life history brought to the fallout experience, i really hope it starts branching out and we maybe even see a day where Bethesda starts giving a space to the old creators again and work together to create a much needed love child. Both have had such fun and creative qualities, i could only imagine the kind of game we'd get if they came together properly.
that view counter must be off! great video!
Shout-out to Atomic Postman's Van Buren 170 pages pdf fleshing out the original idea and making it fit with current Fallout New Vegas Lore, available in NoMutantsallowed.
may he rest in peace
A great look into this production. Thank you
I subbed to this channel 50 seconds into this video, this is beautiful and I can't wait to watch the rest of your docs, you're underrated for sure!
Extremely appreciated, friend! Welcome aboard!
Who else here from the Tim Cain video adding details?
🙋♂️🙋♂️🙋♂️ me tbh
Very informative , thx man!
It is sad that Van Buren didn't come out but thanks to its cancellation we ended up with the amazing Fallout NV. Remember that Titus Interactive the French publisher that bought Interplay was the same one that release Superman 64. Titus completely mismanaged Interplay and ruined what was left.
Amazing video, just earned a new subscriber
Your work is severely underrated friend. I’ll be here to support all future videos ✌🏻
Welcome aboard. Appreciate the kind words 🙏
It blows my mind that I've played and loved games from all these companies. Played games from all these people, who all were at Interplay. It almost brings a tear to my eye
Holy fuck is your name actually goated. Like actually. Brilliant UA-cam name man. I haven’t even gotten two minutes in and I’m impressed af. The editing is so fucking good. The VO sounds great! Keep up the UA-cam grind! You got this one in the bag
Gonna frame this comment and hang it in my studio for when I'm feeling burnt out. Really appreciate the kind words
Great video production work, excited to see more stories!
Thank you! More stories coming soon!
Can we all just agree that it basically evolved into Fallout: New Vegas? Like at this point, lets just start calling it New Vegas lite.
Believe it or not, the crew originally wanted to do something else on the East coast but Bethesda said they didn't want Obsidian to do that because they wanted to do something there. So their plan B was to break out the Van Buren script and use that for their new game.
End Result? Bethesda is jealous that Obsidian did a better Fallout game then they ever could.
@@googleisevil8958 I don't know about that. Aside from the rpg elements and story, fallout new vegas is a pretty shitty game gameplay wise.
@@captainszasz5836yeah cause gamebryo is hot garbage
New Vegas is the sequel to Van Burens story. If you actually read the docs, it sets up a lot of its story. Hoover dam ran by mutants, Legion as just tribes, etc.
Sawyer REALLY likes going back and forth on this mindset of what happened with NV. For awhile after it released, he tried to crucify Bethesda saying they weren't given enough time, a statement he would basically handwave away in future interviews. Which is true, they had an engine, assets and somewhat established lore hand deliveried to them to build the game with. Hell even recently Sawyer seems to be very positives towards Bethesda, possibly hinting that he might want something to do with an anticipated new game
Sometimes I find videos that I save for later and I’m just like “welp… found my video I’ll watch during my lunch break”
It's so strange to see that Eagle @9:30 with so little around it... There are just skyscrapers now all around it. I wonder what Salt Lake would have looked like after the bombs dropped. I've always wondered if we'll get to see it someday in the games.
When you said Baldur's Gate III's Jefferson Engine, I realized interplay worked on a canned BG3. If anyone here has seen Larian Studio's new attempt at Baldur's Gate, I'm sure they'll agree with me that Larian needs to be given an Old School Fallout a shot. Larian is literally the single best company in the industry as far as turn-based CRPG's go these days. They'd fuckin kill it.
Good god no I want larian to stay far away from any beloved game series after whatever travesty they turned BG into
@@cal5365 what the fuck. You did see the trash the original BG3 was gonna be, right? That was gonna be based on 3e DnD. BG3 by Larian uses 5e DnD rules, which are muuuuuch better. Sure I agree that BG 1 was better (im a huge fan of the ADnD 2e ruleset myself), but Larian's BG3 knocks the original one out of the water
@@paulstein8854 I dont mind the ruleset and mechanics, its more the entire awful game they built around it. It looks awaful, the companions and characters are awful etc. Far prefer something like Owlcat did with Pathfinder
@@paulstein8854 Larian do not trust their own abilities and only want to milk the name Baldurs Gate. And D&D 4+ sucks.
So, what you're saying is, New Vegas is Van Buren, escaped from development hell, mutated and maimed as projects tend to be.
Really solid video, I hadn't ever heard very much about Van Buren, so I learned alot! And your b-roll is seamless, I liked how you got the star trek footage in there; it flows really well!
I love Tim Cain, while he doesn't have oversight of his creation anymore I could listen to him talk about it for days. Great video, thanks for sharing
This video was amazing bro, I confused how you don't have 1mil subs yet.
Awesome stuff! Now where are your millions of subscribers hiding? Anyway, you found one right here.
I kinda wish we got this fallout 3 instead of the one we got, it may not have been as popular but it seems like it would be really fun
No
@@ni9274 yes
@@zerpblerd5966Parrot a few more buzzwords.
Stupid question, honestly, but does anyone know the name of the font used in that map in the intro as 00:11, for the text "COLORADO SPRINGS PIKES PEAK REGION"? It's really common in American documents, especially military ones, and I have no idea what it is (but it's beautiful). It has the perfectly round 'O' like Futura, but I'm not sure that's what it is.
Glad to see another font geek in the wild
What The Font didn’t provide me with much luck, but if I find that map in a few weeks I’ll get a cleaner grab and try again. To me it looks like a bold helvetica or even Boston heavy (which has always reminded me of a softer edged Futura and I believe is the font I used in the fake Van Buren logo iirc). The G without the base throws me off, though
I’m not sure if you’ve encountered this video before but Phil Edwards covered the NASA Graphics Standards Press Kit and some of the Post Office stuff from the 70s which may provide a starting point:
ua-cam.com/video/HAKsoiHR8JU/v-deo.htmlsi=qQ6XmOqYq-ABdDYu
@@LuckStat
Dude, that link is right up my street!
Something about the font used in that map really grabs me. I know they used Futura way back, even during WW2, and Helvetica is definitively post-war. Boston Heavy does have the beautiful, circular letter O, I wasn't familiar with the font but I love it.
I'm not American, grew up in a different graphic design culture; I find American graphic design, especially WW2 onwards, very interesting and different.
I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a font nerd, but I'm fascinated by things like signs, information plaques and warning graphics, uniforms, the way stuff is presented to the public in general. It's not the most glamorous thing in the world, but does require human effort that often goes completely unnoticed.
When it's done right, it really grabs you, and when it's done wrong, it really hurts to look at.
I just happen to watch the third video in a row. They are so good. :D
subbed
Welcome aboard!
God why do video essays about cancelled video games always make sad
A well done Van Buren video. Got yourself a sub.
Nice also happy new year!
If we ever get another Spinoff by Black-isle
I want it to be called Van Buren
Oh my god, I just realized this is where the Old World Blue HOI4 mod got most of their factions
it’s based off Fallout New Vegas primarily which also repurposed and reworked many ideas they had for Van Buren into Fallout 3 based Gamebryo
I see a lot of inspiration from this game being used in later entries. For starters, Presper's faction is a mix between the institute and the think tank
Good spot on The Institute, I didn't think about that connection!
@@LuckStat it really looks like if the institute and the think tank had a child
insanely good video, thank you
it’s so unfortunate that outerworlds was so bad, really hope we get a real comeback from these devs
Armin Van Buren was a good DJ. Thank you that didnt forget it
(18:50) This is my Fallout! Was fresh off the press, first FPS RPG open world (pc). This is the game that broke me! Still my all time favourite!!!
I it was… inevitable that Van Buren would be written by the people who created it, one way or another. The story of the games development along with the destruction of the company creating it resulting in the lose of the game just for a rebirth of the company to rebirth the game but in a different way…. History doesn’t repeat itself, it only rhymes.
“It’s very likely Bethesda’s second best game behind whatever Elder Scrolls title you played first”
That’s a good line lol. I’ve always said that about people’s favorite elder scrolls game is based off the same thing
we never got Van Buren but we New Vegas and Wasteland 2-3
Love to see another Wasteland lover! I always recommend it to people since it's a spiritual successor to the OG fallouts.
so that means..... Ulysses from Lonesome RD is a synth with the personality of Ulysses(VAN BUREN/CANON FALLOUT)(the good side he wasn't able to tap in, almost like Brain with Desmond from the Far Harbor DLC how they took his conscious and put it in on a brain so he could technically continue "living".) Also explains why Ulysses wears a mouth mask. Almost like to translate the sound of his voice from robot/synth to human to make him sound more believable and human. You should look into this because I truly believe this is a grave possibility because at the end of the Day the NCR is the United States and even in Fallout Lore our government was still running covert hidden projects. And the NCR probably used the Courier because of how revered he was in the Wasteland to clear the lonesome rd for their safe travels. At the end of the day the NCR means Good but other than their High Ranking Snipers they are quite pathetic with the likes of the Enclave and Brotherhood of Steel. My guess. Cheers.
Huh, that part seems to have been the inspiration of the tv show antagonists, that's cool
Which game is that at 31:01? That Pillars, or Pathfinder? Not sure why I can’t place what it is.
It's Pillars 2, I think from an early gameplay trailer so it might look a little wonky