Collect 2 Epics for FREE in Raid ✅ pl.go-ga.me/fmtfdgo9 ⚡Lightsworn + Juliana (after reaching level 15)⚡Available only via the link and for new players! See you on the battlefield!
While Morgoth was undeniably more powerful I have always found Sauron to be more impressive since unlike Morgoth he didn’t have Balrog’s and Dragons. He was able to create the one ring, the Nazgûl, ultimately destroy Númenor. And by the end of the third age he was undeniably to powerful to defeat militarily
What was also in Morgoth’s favor was having a lot of foes who were their own worst enemies. Feanor, the sons, Turin, Thingol and Turgon were all asking for it.
@@kingcole8397 I would agree both the shadow and free people’s were at their strongest in the first age but Sauron began with nothing but the barren land of Mordor and yet eventually became the strongest power in middle earth
To be fair, it's not that strange for people to end up thinking that the Valar might be giving preferable treatment to the Elves, given what we have seen so far.
For as powerful and almighty as the Valar are, it’s both sad and borderline comical how their inaction and inability are what lead to the fall of so many of the places, people and things they champion and nurture.
@@myriadmediamusings Funnily enough this is a flaw Tolkien gave them deliberately, being too naïve and fearful. Their greatest fears was always the damage that would be done to the world if they stepped in.
It is only when you stand still and think about it that you realize Humans actually have a better deal then Elves when it comes to life and death. Then again Humans generally aren't that great in doing that.
Al-Pharazon the Golden was probably the most powerful bad guy that was (partly) human in the entire history of ME. If only he had some kind of protection from Sauron's deception, i.e an elf that could have seen through Annatar's scheming, he could have ruled ME with that crazy strong army he had.
My favourite Numenorean Kings: Tar-Sticky (hard to get rid of) Tar-Tar (didn't cook his food) Tar-Ava (he was never there in person) Tar-Nec (sweet guy) Tar-Mor (could just drop in outta nowhere)
Aulë. He's associated with many of the greatest evils of the world (Feanor, Sauron, Saruman, Greed of Dwarves), and the dude wasn't even trying! Imagine if he actually went full Morgoth...
I think it rather unjust calling Feanor one of the greatest evils of the world. Sure his actions, pride and greed led to untold loss and devastation, but it was all on behest of Melkor, without him killing Finwe and stealing the silmarils, no oath, no kinslaying, no burning of ships alienating his half brothers etc.Yes he was prideful, rash and harsh, but he was played like a fiddle, but that hardly constitutes being evil, especially not when the fiddle-player was the OG bad guy.
@@Rahbekkk how many great evils in both history and fiction have committed in the name of vengeance? Even before Melkor killed Finwë and stole the Silmarils, his lies had poisoned Fëanor and turned him into a version of Cain or Esau. After Finwë’s murder, Fëanor went full anti villain.
@@Rahbekkk Admittedly, I was being a bit hyperbolic. I just feel that Aulë doesn't get enough criticism for unwittingly turning everything he touches into a flaming turd. He's kind of "US foreign policy" in that regard...
One of the concepts of Tolkien's work, is that the ability to craft and create can lead to great works, but can also lead to greater ambitions that lead to their downfall or the will to dominate.
It is said in the Silmarilion, that those with the power of creation are the closest to be corrupted, as creation is big works that lead to ambition, but that Aulë focused his creation on others and that in itself made him uncorruptive, unless Morgoth who though on creation only for his own self. This is why Sauron, the Balrogs and Saruman were easier to fall into temptation.
I just watched both of your 2hr long videos about the first age (best age) and i have to tell you WaW i love your animations so much. Fantastic chanel and amazing work!
Yes. Tolkien definitely drew inspiration from the Bible. Josiah restored the Passover. Tar-Palantir restored the three prayer feasts. The difference is Tar-Palantir's daughter was ready to follow in her father's footsteps, while Josiah's son quickly returned Judah to evil deeds.
@@Apollo1989V Yes I know and that scenario sucks because Míriel would never have climbed up Mt. Meneltarma when Numenor was submerged into the ocean. That iconic scene would never have happened. It is terrible that Ar-Pharazon raped her and seized the Scepter, but that is so in character for him. If she is a victim who managed to regain her dignity at the end, the story and message are more powerful, IMO.
I noticed some errors in the video: Tar-Atanamir was the first Númenorean king to hold on to the Sceptre until his death, not the last king who abdicated in favor of his son while still healthy. The Nazgûl first appeared during Ancalimon's reign, not Alcarin's. The map shows the Faithful being relocated to the Hyarnustar during Ar-Gimilzôr's reign, instead of Rómenna. The image of Tar-Palantír's coronation does not make sense, as Gimilzôr could not have been the one crowning him--- the ceremony would have been after Gimilzôr's death. Númenor is too close to Middle-earth in the map. The final narration says Downfall of Morgoth instead of Downfall of Númenor.
This video, unironically, makes this key story so much more coherent and weighty than as it's told in the Silmarillion. Granted, I've only fully read it through once, and even then I've skimmed some of the fluff so take my verdict with a grain of salt if you must, but the fact that I hadn't noticed any of these finer, more enriching details about the rise and fall of the greatest human civilisation on Arda, even though it contributed to the ascension of the Dark Lord himself is frankly strange. To give the Silmarillion credit though, all of these points probably got lost in translation and all the Shakespearean prose which I frankly can only handle in small doses.
*Yo K&G* *When Are we going to see the next Installment of the Alternate History series* *i wanted to see the aftermath of the mongol Alternate History and how it would affect the future*
One thing that has not been mentioned, is that Arda (the world that includes Middle-Earth and the Undying Lands) has existed a on flat plane throughout all it's history. The consequences from the Downfall of Númenor, will change Arda irrevocably.
Yes. Tolkien regretted that aspect of the canon, but couldn't change it without destroying a lot of established lore. So we have the flat Arda changing to the round Arda.🙄
I always think it's worth noting that it's actually unclear going by even Tolkien's notes whether Tar-Miriel married Ar-Pharazon against her will or not. Sometimes, it's presented as a coup, other times Tat-Miriel is presented as being just as cunning and ambitious, entirely on board with Ar-Pharazon's scheming, using him to solidify her own power.
The Valar were kind of social morons. They could've avoided a lot of pain and misery if they actually took the time to sit down and listen to people's grievances.
A good video for a good story, although I think it should have been mentioned that when at this time the Nine dir rise first, it was said that at least three among their ranks were of Numenorian blood (maybe even Number One although this was never confirmed). This would suggest that Sauron had already secret followers in the Numenorian harbors in Middle Earth or even at the island itself. Of course it is also true that the downfall of the Numenorians to great part were their own decision (and the bloodthirsty cruelty of the Valar), and not only to blame on Saurons masterly intrigues).
@@Enerdhil Well, he did (although not so early, but later, long after the rings were forged), as a supposed POW (after the Numenorians landed with a gigantic army in Middle Earth). Of course he used his time as "prisoner" than to manipulate the arrogant and racist "Men of the King" - so participating in the final downfall of Numenor. He even "drowned" than during the sinking of Numenor, because he underestimated the Rage of the Valar. Of course, being a god, he reapeared soon after in Mordor and re-started his campaign to conquer Middle Earth.
@@marcbartuschka6372 I was referring to Sauron in the Series, of course. They haven't gotten to Sauron's surrender or his bending of Ar-Pharazon's mind to his own. The Voice of Saruman was amateur level compared to Sauron's voice. I bet he was in his Annatar Fana when Ar-Pharazon took him prisoner.
One has to wonder if the rightful queen hadn’t been overthrown by her cousin. Would her continuing the works of her father, have been enough to save Numenor from its eventual fate and return it to what was under its earliest and wisest monarchs.
What kind of emissaries visit a king and then give a vague answer? Now wonder the Numenorians began rebelling. The elves get to live forever even after the end of time While the fate of men can’t be explained easily. Not even why they are mortal. Sounds like faith to an afterlife can be more appealing if Eru’s spokesperson and representative in Arda can explain the meaning of life a lot easier
Mybe that is supposed to be the test to determine the worth of one's soul do they fear the unknown of what comes next. Do we run from it or accept it. Then if it turns out there is something great that awaits us on the other side we are rewarded for it with eternal paradise. That's just how I see it though. What the kings men faild to realize was that immortality is not perfect. It came with problems.
One of the only things I can say The Rings of Power did well was their choice of actor to play Ar-Pharazon. Trystan Gravelle looks pretty much exactly how I imagined Ar-Pharazon in my head.
i know Raid SL financially helps alot of smaller channels because they tend to pay out more then others. but I really wish people would stop taking their money.
When you see what the Valar did to Tar Palantir, you lose all respect for them. If they were trying righteous, they would've helped him clean up numenor. They sat back and did nothing.
The problem is that there's a ton of Ar-Adunaim (King's Men) out there, crapping on the Valar and the traditions that Finrod and Eonwe taught their ancestors with, and unrepentant.
I think Tol Eressëa is outside the jurisdiction of Manwë. So I don't think it was any of their business to interfere with what the Teleri of Tol Eressëa did.
Collect 2 Epics for FREE in Raid ✅ pl.go-ga.me/fmtfdgo9 ⚡Lightsworn + Juliana (after reaching level 15)⚡Available only via the link and for new players! See you on the battlefield!
You guys are the Best! Please do a Henry V lives series
Once again, I formally submit my request for a Fraggle Rock lore video.
Malazan please ❤❤❤
You filthy your channel with RAID Just stop
Would you do Final Fantasy lore as well?
"Shame...". - Eru Illuvatar, before releasing the floodgates.
Eru to the Valar: "Cant you nincompoops do anything without my help?"
the sea is always right.
If there is definitely one thing Sauron inherited from Morgoth, it’s his ability to ensure that the races of middle earth would destroy themselves.
I will argue that Sauron is a better manipulator than Morgoth himself.
We do it ourselves just fine, and we have no dark lord behind the scenes.
@@jonbaxter2254Or do we?
yes
@@mariuss1590Morgoth is a hammer, Sauron is a scalpel.
While Morgoth was undeniably more powerful I have always found Sauron to be more impressive since unlike Morgoth he didn’t have Balrog’s and Dragons. He was able to create the one ring, the Nazgûl, ultimately destroy Númenor. And by the end of the third age he was undeniably to powerful to defeat militarily
What was also in Morgoth’s favor was having a lot of foes who were their own worst enemies. Feanor, the sons, Turin, Thingol and Turgon were all asking for it.
But Morgoth also had to deal with the Noldor, who were just elves hopped up on Valinor creatine so
@@kingcole8397 I would agree both the shadow and free people’s were at their strongest in the first age but Sauron began with nothing but the barren land of Mordor and yet eventually became the strongest power in middle earth
I suppose having less inherent power made him more crafty. Morgoth just thought he could crush people with strength
To be fair, it's not that strange for people to end up thinking that the Valar might be giving preferable treatment to the Elves, given what we have seen so far.
For as powerful and almighty as the Valar are, it’s both sad and borderline comical how their inaction and inability are what lead to the fall of so many of the places, people and things they champion and nurture.
there is parody fanfiction which make fun of valar for their inability @@myriadmediamusings
@@myriadmediamusings For guardians of the world and all within, they sure didn't do their jobs right
@@myriadmediamusings Funnily enough this is a flaw Tolkien gave them deliberately, being too naïve and fearful. Their greatest fears was always the damage that would be done to the world if they stepped in.
It is only when you stand still and think about it that you realize Humans actually have a better deal then Elves when it comes to life and death. Then again Humans generally aren't that great in doing that.
Al-Pharazon the Golden was probably the most powerful bad guy that was (partly) human in the entire history of ME. If only he had some kind of protection from Sauron's deception, i.e an elf that could have seen through Annatar's scheming, he could have ruled ME with that crazy strong army he had.
He had the worst traits of both Thingol and Maeglin.
Khamul is pretty bad and powerful as a former man who became a Ringwraith.
The presentation, the voices, the animations, the narrative are all absolutely great !
My favourite Numenorean Kings:
Tar-Sticky (hard to get rid of)
Tar-Tar (didn't cook his food)
Tar-Ava (he was never there in person)
Tar-Nec (sweet guy)
Tar-Mor (could just drop in outta nowhere)
No tar babies? I guess that would be RACISTTTTTT!!!!!!
Awesome video. This part of the legendarium always reminds me of the Biblical books of 1st and 2nd Kings and 1st and 2nd Chronicles.
Aulë.
He's associated with many of the greatest evils of the world (Feanor, Sauron, Saruman, Greed of Dwarves), and the dude wasn't even trying!
Imagine if he actually went full Morgoth...
I think it rather unjust calling Feanor one of the greatest evils of the world. Sure his actions, pride and greed led to untold loss and devastation, but it was all on behest of Melkor, without him killing Finwe and stealing the silmarils, no oath, no kinslaying, no burning of ships alienating his half brothers etc.Yes he was prideful, rash and harsh, but he was played like a fiddle, but that hardly constitutes being evil, especially not when the fiddle-player was the OG bad guy.
@@Rahbekkk how many great evils in both history and fiction have committed in the name of vengeance? Even before Melkor killed Finwë and stole the Silmarils, his lies had poisoned Fëanor and turned him into a version of Cain or Esau. After Finwë’s murder, Fëanor went full anti villain.
@@Rahbekkk Admittedly, I was being a bit hyperbolic.
I just feel that Aulë doesn't get enough criticism for unwittingly turning everything he touches into a flaming turd. He's kind of "US foreign policy" in that regard...
One of the concepts of Tolkien's work, is that the ability to craft and create can lead to great works, but can also lead to greater ambitions that lead to their downfall or the will to dominate.
It is said in the Silmarilion, that those with the power of creation are the closest to be corrupted, as creation is big works that lead to ambition, but that Aulë focused his creation on others and that in itself made him uncorruptive, unless Morgoth who though on creation only for his own self. This is why Sauron, the Balrogs and Saruman were easier to fall into temptation.
I just watched both of your 2hr long videos about the first age (best age) and i have to tell you WaW i love your animations so much. Fantastic chanel and amazing work!
Tar Palantir was the Middle Earth counterpart of Josiah of Judah
It is fascinating to observe Tolkien's works drawn from world history
Yes. Tolkien definitely drew inspiration from the Bible. Josiah restored the Passover. Tar-Palantir restored the three prayer feasts.
The difference is Tar-Palantir's daughter was ready to follow in her father's footsteps, while Josiah's son quickly returned Judah to evil deeds.
@@Enerdhil an alternative writing Tolkien proposed was that his daughter wasn’t forced.
@@Apollo1989V
Yes I know and that scenario sucks because Míriel would never have climbed up Mt. Meneltarma when Numenor was submerged into the ocean. That iconic scene would never have happened.
It is terrible that Ar-Pharazon raped her and seized the Scepter, but that is so in character for him. If she is a victim who managed to regain her dignity at the end, the story and message are more powerful, IMO.
The Witch King: my lord, how do you plan to defeat the Numenorians?
Sauron: The Secret Ingredient is sluttiness
*fem Sauron fanart intensifies*
@@thespyingeyeofmordor femSauron is the best girl.
Wow another great 2nd age video 😎👍
I noticed some errors in the video:
Tar-Atanamir was the first Númenorean king to hold on to the Sceptre until his death, not the last king who abdicated in favor of his son while still healthy.
The Nazgûl first appeared during Ancalimon's reign, not Alcarin's.
The map shows the Faithful being relocated to the Hyarnustar during Ar-Gimilzôr's reign, instead of Rómenna.
The image of Tar-Palantír's coronation does not make sense, as Gimilzôr could not have been the one crowning him--- the ceremony would have been after Gimilzôr's death.
Númenor is too close to Middle-earth in the map.
The final narration says Downfall of Morgoth instead of Downfall of Númenor.
Rings of Power will definitely interpret this beautiful story with perfection. 😅
Yes. They have an extra year to put out some more 💩💩💩
Compress it into two years, and voila!
But according to the rings of power the numinorians didn’t like the elves because they were afraid they were going to take their jobs!
😂😂😂😂😂
@@myriadmediamusingsplease don’t embarrass yourself
@@myriadmediamusingsDon't fall to deep into that rabbit hole
Please dont speak of that evil!
That's Bergoglio-level of Anathema.
Numenor just can't catch a break lmao.
This video, unironically, makes this key story so much more coherent and weighty than as it's told in the Silmarillion. Granted, I've only fully read it through once, and even then I've skimmed some of the fluff so take my verdict with a grain of salt if you must, but the fact that I hadn't noticed any of these finer, more enriching details about the rise and fall of the greatest human civilisation on Arda, even though it contributed to the ascension of the Dark Lord himself is frankly strange. To give the Silmarillion credit though, all of these points probably got lost in translation and all the Shakespearean prose which I frankly can only handle in small doses.
Love your content! More GOT please😊😊😊😊
Sauron and emperor palpatine. Knew he couldnt beat by brute strength. So corrupted
Very smart
Nice work dude thanks
Little did Men know that they'd literally wither away if they spent a long time in Valinor.
Men are forbidden to set foot on Aman. That's why Ar-Pharazon and his men get buried under rubble from Taniquetil. No time to wither...
Great stuff, diving not the next part. Thanks for this
Great video! ⚔🧝♀🏰
Hmmm, nothing about Galadriel slaying an ice troll
Or jumping ship and swimming 500 miles to meet Saur... I mean Halbrand and hitch a ride to Numenor.🤪
*Yo K&G*
*When Are we going to see the next Installment of the Alternate History series*
*i wanted to see the aftermath of the mongol Alternate History and how it would affect the future*
One thing that has not been mentioned, is that Arda (the world that includes Middle-Earth and the Undying Lands) has existed a on flat plane throughout all it's history. The consequences from the Downfall of Númenor, will change Arda irrevocably.
Yes. Tolkien regretted that aspect of the canon, but couldn't change it without destroying a lot of established lore. So we have the flat Arda changing to the round Arda.🙄
"Andor, the Land of Gift, no more
Is spoken of by men.
But Atalantë it is called,
Eldarin 'Downfallen.'"
- Joanna Wright
So many stories that could be brought to screen from Middle Earth with a billion dollars, but not with which could top Peter Jackson's two trilogies.
You’d think pissing off eagles the size of a house would be a sure sign they were on the right path.
I always think it's worth noting that it's actually unclear going by even Tolkien's notes whether Tar-Miriel married Ar-Pharazon against her will or not. Sometimes, it's presented as a coup, other times Tat-Miriel is presented as being just as cunning and ambitious, entirely on board with Ar-Pharazon's scheming, using him to solidify her own power.
There might be a tiny problem with the title of the video 😊
Yeah, just dropped in early access before I had a chance to work on the title/description.
@@WizardsandWarriorscan you tease us when the next episode of the mongol series will be released?
Its tooo good
@@saratmodugu2721 I feel like that one is over
@@HolyGuacamole31 they said a new episode had its script done but they were still working on the video not long back
@@HolyGuacamole31 I asked and they replied “it is coming”
Those who proclaimed themselves Mighty and powerful always had a bitter end and cause their people demise.
MELKOR
FEANOR
TURIN
NUMENOR
SARUMAN.
The Valar were kind of social morons. They could've avoided a lot of pain and misery if they actually took the time to sit down and listen to people's grievances.
The Elves were the people's grievances.😂
A good video for a good story, although I think it should have been mentioned that when at this time the Nine dir rise first, it was said that at least three among their ranks were of Numenorian blood (maybe even Number One although this was never confirmed). This would suggest that Sauron had already secret followers in the Numenorian harbors in Middle Earth or even at the island itself.
Of course it is also true that the downfall of the Numenorians to great part were their own decision (and the bloodthirsty cruelty of the Valar), and not only to blame on Saurons masterly intrigues).
If you believe Amazon, Sauron himself went to Numenor.🙄
@@Enerdhil Well, he did (although not so early, but later, long after the rings were forged), as a supposed POW (after the Numenorians landed with a gigantic army in Middle Earth). Of course he used his time as "prisoner" than to manipulate the arrogant and racist "Men of the King" - so participating in the final downfall of Numenor. He even "drowned" than during the sinking of Numenor, because he underestimated the Rage of the Valar. Of course, being a god, he reapeared soon after in Mordor and re-started his campaign to conquer Middle Earth.
@@marcbartuschka6372
I was referring to Sauron in the Series, of course. They haven't gotten to Sauron's surrender or his bending of Ar-Pharazon's mind to his own. The Voice of Saruman was amateur level compared to Sauron's voice. I bet he was in his Annatar Fana when Ar-Pharazon took him prisoner.
@@marcbartuschka6372
"Soon after?" I guess a thousand years is soon for a Maia.
Love it. Need more!
I'm re reading this part, would love a whole movie based on the Numenor, and yes i'm ignoring amazons travesty
A+ 😁👍 I was not going to say anything, but since you did....😅
One has to wonder if the rightful queen hadn’t been overthrown by her cousin. Would her continuing the works of her father, have been enough to save Numenor from its eventual fate and return it to what was under its earliest and wisest monarchs.
Anybody know what the name of the song at the end is? It’ll be perfect for my conquests in third age total war
What music do you use in the videos?
What kind of emissaries visit a king and then give a vague answer?
Now wonder the Numenorians began rebelling.
The elves get to live forever even after the end of time
While the fate of men can’t be explained easily. Not even why they are mortal.
Sounds like faith to an afterlife can be more appealing if Eru’s spokesperson and representative in Arda can explain the meaning of life a lot easier
Mybe that is supposed to be the test to determine the worth of one's soul do they fear the unknown of what comes next. Do we run from it or accept it. Then if it turns out there is something great that awaits us on the other side we are rewarded for it with eternal paradise. That's just how I see it though. What the kings men faild to realize was that immortality is not perfect. It came with problems.
The Theme of the Legendarium: mortality vs. immortality.
@@karlolson1363
Maybe Tolkien was writing his frustrations on his faith to God and the Church
One of the only things I can say The Rings of Power did well was their choice of actor to play Ar-Pharazon. Trystan Gravelle looks pretty much exactly how I imagined Ar-Pharazon in my head.
I don't think people in the lineage of Elros' could grow a beard. From what I understand about the beard issue according to Nature of Middle Earth.
@@Enerdhil Gravelle is still a solid actor and gives off that "aging but still hale for now" feel that I always associated with Ar-Phrazon.
@@GreasusGoldtooth
The actor did a great job of portraying Ar-Pharazon according to McCay and Payne. 🙄
@@Enerdhil He did the best he could with substandard material. Even a solid actor can only do so much with nonsense like TROP.
Where is the next episode of mongol invasion of europe series
Malazan please ❤❤😂😂
I’ll do you one better. Why was Numenor corrupted?
Pride
Even they portray Tar-Miriel better than the anathematized Bezos/Bad Reboot show approved by Simon Tolkien the Verrater.
Yeah. He left out the details of the rape...
NUMENÖRE A BELA ILHA DOS ALTOS REIS DOS HOMENS.
This looks like the history of the kings of Judah
i know Raid SL financially helps alot of smaller channels because they tend to pay out more then others. but I really wish people would stop taking their money.
Um ☝️🤓 none of this happened during Amazon's: The Rings of Power, so it didn't happen. Nice video though
Anathema!
How dare they leave Galadriel out when we know she was in Numenor with Míriel and Ar-Pharazon?🤪
U joking right?
@@_TheMithrandir_ yes bro
Operation paper clip
When you see what the Valar did to Tar Palantir, you lose all respect for them. If they were trying righteous, they would've helped him clean up numenor. They sat back and did nothing.
The problem is that there's a ton of Ar-Adunaim (King's Men) out there, crapping on the Valar and the traditions that Finrod and Eonwe taught their ancestors with, and unrepentant.
I think Tol Eressëa is outside the jurisdiction of Manwë. So I don't think it was any of their business to interfere with what the Teleri of Tol Eressëa did.
That's not how it happened. I know coz i seen it on Amazon!
That abomination can at best be called a fan fiction by ppl that hate Tolkien
He forgot to say that Galadriel jumped ship and swam 500 miles to Numenor.😱🤪
@@origami83Doesn't even rate as bad fan fiction. Amazon's production game was so weak it couldn't talk pussy out of a tree.