P&S ModCast 387 - FMJ: Not for Carry
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Primary & Secondary ModCast
The panel discusses the shortcomings of carrying full metal jacket (FMJ) rounds in duty calibers in fullsized duty handguns.
Host: Matt Landfair
Panel:
Doug Deaton
Erick Gelhaus
Chuck Haggard
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Can we pitch in to buy Erick a befitting background?
I would like to see a modcast on carying a backup gun... for civilians? what guns , how to carry ,calibers, etc. I know Chuck said he is a big believer in carrying two guns. im sure there are some good stories there too thanks
I ❤ the Fudds in the comments who haven’t even listened yet.
It’s up on Spotify, Fudds.
Mouse calibers with fmj is not a topic on this fmj episode. Duty calibers are.
And remember, I am not an American. Just born here. Therefore I cannot be a Fudd. That's a term applied to YOUR people.
This Fudd has been watching P&S for over a decade, I already know the basics of what they are going to say.
Knew some of this but really learned more here
I think FMJ can be useful in some calibers. And I'll add in Round Nose for the .22LR. Hardcast will be included too.
-.22LR RN HV
-.32 acp (73gr FMJ S&B)
-.380 acp ( 100gr Underwood HC)
I am not sure about .30 Supercarry. Maybe.
Whatch the episode first dude
@@boomee78 Everything I mentioned was not a Duty caliber.
Please do eat more beef and eggs. We have got to beat the dude linguistic out of you.
It's like Californian saying "Like OMG"
IT delegitimizes you by definition. It does not inspire Authority whatsoever
@@boomee78 I listened to the episode already on Pod Bean. Guess what?
Fmj can be useful in some mouse calibers and rimfire.
See? No change in my comment
.380 FMJ penetrates 26" in clear ballistics gel.
@@Kinetic.44 How many inches does that equate to in a human?
I have worked in about 100 gunshot wound emergency surgeries. I think I saw one well-placed hollow point, of any kind. The rest were all FMJ. The patients hit with hollow points in the upper body never made to the OR. I don't go on Facebook. I don't go on Instagram. I don't go on X. I don't know the latest fad, the latest controversy, nor the latest response to the latest controversy caused by the latest fad.
Didn't the magic beans work though? I mean Jack does get scammed for his cow but those beans grow that giant magic stalk... that leads to a giant who tries to eat him. Shitty deal. Don't buy magic beans. Buy hierloom beans.
What are you gonna raid the antarctica aeed bank or something?
Nope, just trying to break up the comments with a little humor. 9 hours later I see that did not work.
@@matthewtellheart6060 yes it did.
The only use case for carrying FMJ I can think of is if you live in New Jersey.
I thought NJ is a big reason why polymer tipped JHP’s like Hornady’s Critical Defense and Critical Duty exist?
@brianfhorton Maybe? I'm not familiar with that, I just know NJ has really wack ammo laws and from what I understand you can only have carry hollowpoints in very specific scenarios. And the most common scenario for a civilian would be bringing it to the range with you to shoot.
+ countries around the world apart from the US with various laws and availability of ammo.
@@brianfhortonabsolutely correct. critical defense /critical duty is expressly permitted described on the NJSP website
I wonder what would all the people killed by 9mm fmj over the last 120 years think about this topic?
They would be amazed by the technological advancements in ammunition that create more consistency in accuracy, wounding, and controlled penetration.
@@PrimaryAndSecondary Yeah, I love launching 9mm holllow points, basically like shooting HEDP. So much POWER!
Legit went to a swat school last year where they taught the same FMJ vs. windshield nonsense. I tried bring up how cheaply made and underloaded most FMJ ammo is in comparison to hotly loaded and expensive duty ammo but the instructors had done their own “testing” and weren’t convinced.
Listened to the episode. My suggestion is to change the title of the episode. Perhaps, "FMJ, not optimal for carry" would be more fitting.
For 99% of people carrying a firearm, it applies. The main points stand.
@PrimaryAndSecondary I didn't attack the main point of the episode.
I pointed out the key word is "optimal".
LSWC, FMJ, SP, Glasser, etc, any and all of them have worked at some point, somewhere. Optimally, everyone would be carrying premium duty ammo. Rarely are things "optimal" at all times. I have been issued and required to carry several less than optimal brands/types of ammunition by a law enforcement agency in the DFW area of Texas for example.
@sgtcwhatley there is a point in creating content where nuance just can't be addressed in the short amount of time the creator has. In a title, there is definitely a little wiggle room for nuance. The overall message is don't carry fmj. We covered some exceptions with smaller calibers in the body of the discussion.
Early on in P&S history, saying 22LR was acceptable for carry was not possible because blind followers wanted absolutes, and addressing nuance did not go over well. As baselines of performance were established and understood, we began to expand our coverage of less understood concepts. This whole process took a long time with a known demographic. This specific title isn't necessarily only going to be read by that same demographic, so it needs to be a little more blunt, which in turn may attract some attention.
@PrimaryAndSecondary I can see where you are coming from in your reply, but I disagree with your premise. Thank you and your guests for the video.
You should always identify your backstop, adjusting angles accordingly. Do not rely on hollowpoint expansion for anything, including terminal performance. Guns worked fine before hollowpoints came along, just drill the heart or brain it doesnt matter what you use at that point, accuracy is all that really matters.
Have you watched this episode?
That usually applies to mouse calibers primarily. Once you get to 9mm or higher it is difficult.
Though .45 acp ball can perform better in an older 1911. As that's what what was used.
I usually say Rimfire and Mouse Calibers are fine with FMJ. Proven to be correct historically.
Though Hardcast may also be OK too.
@@PrimaryAndSecondaryfuck that, we came to argue! Haha
@@robertpatter5509 "I carry non-expanding .22LR in my pocket, but make sure you have proven JHP/defensive/duty grade ammo in your real gun that you might not have with you all the time" Do you not see the intellectual conflict with your thought process?
Seems rather obtuse since you watched the episode
I'd also like to comment without having watched any of this episode and ask why in the f***We needed a modcast to tell us this? Next Week's podcast will be bows: not for carry.
Not everyone is on the same page, as shown in the comments.
I wish we didn't, but there's people who push the idea, even though it should be obvious to everyone who spends more than 5 seconds really thinking about it. We also had a dude try to fight a mob with a bow in 2020, so maybe we do need to have that modcast. Common sense isn't all that common after all.
@@stevencali3539 Bring that up in chat during. We have real world examples.
@tylerzmistowski5867 what chat?
@@PrimaryAndSecondary The hypothetical one on the podcast about not carrying bows for defense.
My preferred carry round is fort scotts tui 80g.
Don't fall for marketing.
Oof, buddy, that is not the way.
@PrimaryAndSecondary ooo, and it goes through the soft stuff if u know what I mean lol . Hollows are old tech and do well but honestly not that great. I hear just as many stories as people eating hollows and fmj all the same. If u want to b real all u need is enough penitration and shot placement. That's all folks and just like they are preaching plan for the 98%. And over pen is just that a none issue. My point I hear and have seen cops unloading with rounds everywhere, lol. Yet no innocent bystanders were even hit. Whyyyyy? Cuz when people hear one shot they r out of the building. Please b real lol not in fairytale larpin land.
the only larping is thinking that ammo is a good idea
@PrimaryAndSecondary lol ok sunshine keep telling yourself that. But it's funny u talk like u know, but I don't think u do. Sorry, but just dismissing something you don't know and haven't tested yourself to me is an eye-opening red flag. I mean u haven't said anything, lol. Tell me how I'm wrong. Prove me wrong. I'll b waiting on the video. Show me how bad of choice I've made. I'm open-minded, not stuck in the mud fud. Put your money where your mouth is sunshine. Don't talk if u don't walk.
"I carry non-expanding .22LR in my pocket, but make sure you have proven JHP/defensive/duty grade ammo in your real gun that you might not have with you all the time" Do you not see the intellectual conflict with your thought process?
This seems purposely obtuse since the logic was explained in the episode.
@@PrimaryAndSecondary You choose to carry federal punch because you recognize shot placement and penetration is all that matters. You COULD carry .38 Spl +P JHP in the same gun, yet you choose to carry .22LR... You recognize that .380 FMJ over penetrates by FBI test standards, yet you accepted the risk... yeah I watched it.
@Kinetic.44 that's quite a simplistic generalization of things I have not said.
@@PrimaryAndSecondary Not you, it was Mr. Haggard who was explaining the "sub" calibers. Also, actions speak louder than words, you have said in several other videos that you pocket carry .22LR. Please tell me if I have said anything that is not factual.
@Kinetic.44 what I carry as a minimalist option versus what I carry edc versus what I carry on duty- they all have different parameters. This isn't one size fits all.